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(Washington Post)   Church in Wisconsin tries to bully former GB Packer into issuing a formal retraction of his "congrats" to Jason Collins by cancelling his anti-bullying speech   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 54
    More: Asinine, Jason Collins, Wisconsin, Leroy Butler, Green Bay, touchdown celebration, Le Roy, speeches  
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2143 clicks; posted to Sports » on 01 May 2013 at 1:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 12:32:19 PM
This is from The Onion. Has to be.
 
2013-05-01 12:37:12 PM
Collins declined to identify the denomination or location of the church when contacted by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

The Journal Sentinel reports that the church has tried to reach Butler to apologize. Although he would accept the apology, he said he would decline to speak at the church.


I thought the Journal didn't know which church it was. How would they know the church wants to apologize?\

/Doubt the church would actually be sincere in that apology
 
2013-05-01 01:25:22 PM
They said, 'If you ask for forgiveness and remove the tweet and you say something to the effect that you don't congratulate [Collins] then we'll let you do the engagement and get the speaker's fee,' and I said I'm not doing that," Butler told Ashley Luthern.

"Every gay and lesbian person will say 'You know, LeRoy doesn't speak up for the weak or the silenced. He doesn't stand for anything as a man and he did it for money.' Why would you ask me to reduce my integrity like that?"


Butler is awesome, and a truer Christian than the assholes at that church will ever be.
 
2013-05-01 01:34:00 PM
I think an Hypocrisy tag for Fark is long overdue.
 
2013-05-01 01:36:36 PM
I thought he was a safety. Anyway, this is awesome of him
 
2013-05-01 01:46:02 PM
Butler said he told the pastor that he believes the church was trying to intimidate him.

"This is a form of bullying, what you're doing. 'You're trying to get me to do something I don't want to do,' " Butler said. "He disagreed, and I said, 'We agree to disagree' and he said, 'No, I'm right and you're wrong.' "


And this, right here, is what religion is all about.
 
2013-05-01 01:57:01 PM
As one of the libbiest libs who ever libbed, I disagree with the church but I don't have a problem with them cancelling a speaker that conflicts with their doctrine.
The conditions of the contract should be honored but that's a separate, legal issue.
 
2013-05-01 01:58:22 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Butler said he told the pastor that he believes the church was trying to intimidate him.

"This is a form of bullying, what you're doing. 'You're trying to get me to do something I don't want to do,' " Butler said. "He disagreed, and I said, 'We agree to disagree' and he said, 'No, I'm right and you're wrong.' "

And this, right here, is what religion is all about.

 
2013-05-01 02:02:45 PM
My guess is Elmbrook church in Brookfield.
 
2013-05-01 02:03:00 PM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Benevolent Misanthrope: Butler said he told the pastor that he believes the church was trying to intimidate him.

"This is a form of bullying, what you're doing. 'You're trying to get me to do something I don't want to do,' " Butler said. "He disagreed, and I said, 'We agree to disagree' and he said, 'No, I'm right and you're wrong.' "

And this, right here, is what religion is all about.


Second time in as many days that I get to quote Lana Kane:

YUUUUP!
 
2013-05-01 02:03:06 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: As one of the libbiest libs who ever libbed, I disagree with the church but I don't have a problem with them cancelling a speaker that conflicts with their doctrine.
The conditions of the contract should be honored but that's a separate, legal issue.


The problem with this is that their doctrine goes completely against the teachings of Jesus and Butler called them out on that and is 100% right. They claim to be a Christian church but they're clearly not. I just wish we knew the name of the church so they could be ripped properly.
 
2013-05-01 02:03:34 PM
I submitted this hours and hours ago, and ,,,well, I dunno if it was a better headline, but I was was ahead of this one!

Been lots of back and forth on twitter about it, too. What do you expect from churches nowadays?
 
2013-05-01 02:06:22 PM
I bet the majority of the congregation is wearing cotton polyester blends and that many of them eat shellfish and get tattooed.
 
2013-05-01 02:09:34 PM
Follow up: Sunday morning he comes crashing through the doors of the church yelling 'LeROOOOOOOOOOOOOY mmmBUTLER!'
 
2013-05-01 02:11:41 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I bet the majority of the congregation is wearing cotton polyester blends and that many of them eat shellfish and get tattooed.


I bet a bunch of them trim their sideburns too!
 
2013-05-01 02:13:28 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I bet the majority of the congregation is wearing cotton polyester blends and that many of them eat shellfish and get tattooed.


Seriously. "Christians" my ass; they're Leviticusites (or Leviticusians?)
 
2013-05-01 02:14:32 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Marcus Aurelius: I bet the majority of the congregation is wearing cotton polyester blends and that many of them eat shellfish and get tattooed.

I bet a bunch of them trim their sideburns too!


That one doesn't count.  Because sideburns are abhorrent in the sight of my mirror.

/ok so i eat shellfish too
 
2013-05-01 02:15:17 PM

Killer Cars: Marcus Aurelius: I bet the majority of the congregation is wearing cotton polyester blends and that many of them eat shellfish and get tattooed.

Seriously. "Christians" my ass; they're Leviticusites (or Leviticusians?)


Levites?  Or is that blue jean wearers?
 
2013-05-01 02:19:26 PM

Killer Cars: Marcus Aurelius: I bet the majority of the congregation is wearing cotton polyester blends and that many of them eat shellfish and get tattooed.

Seriously. "Christians" my ass; they're Leviticusites (or Leviticusians?)


They can't even do that right! They just picked one thing to freak out about & everything else was voided by the "New Covenant." Christians my ass.
 
2013-05-01 02:20:15 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Levites? Or is that blue jean wearers?


Actually, I just realized calling Leviticus or Levite-anything doesn't quite make sense if they're still disregarding some pretty blatant rules within it while choosing at will what to observe from it with fervor.

Maybe just calling them "assholes" is the best way to go.
 
2013-05-01 02:20:50 PM

Di Atribe: They can't even do that right! They just picked one thing to freak out about & everything else was voided by the "New Covenant." Christians my ass.


Yeah, my bad.
 
2013-05-01 02:22:18 PM

Killer Cars: Marcus Aurelius: Levites? Or is that blue jean wearers?

Actually, I just realized calling Leviticus or Levite-anything doesn't quite make sense if they're still disregarding some pretty blatant rules within it while choosing at will what to observe from it with fervor.

Maybe just calling them "assholes" is the best way to go.


I'm gonna go with "THIS" here...
 
2013-05-01 02:24:36 PM
The discussion, debate and blah-blah blah concerning Collins' announcement has been interesting.   I've seen and heard critically stupid stuff on TV and radio regarding this.    From supporters--who have used their platforms to denounce religion and from naysayers who have used their platforms to express their religious views.
This story is still, in my opinion, 'blowing up' and getting bigger, as it is a catalyst for other events and the reactions are strong.   This article is a good example.
 
2013-05-01 02:29:28 PM
It's not like his tweet was different than anything else he has said. He has often commented that he would have had no problem playing (and showering) with a teammate who was openly gay as long as the teammate could play football, Besides, the tweet just said "Congrats to Jason Collins". Congrats for being gay? Congrats for being open? Congrats for acknowledging who you are? Congrats for being strong?

The church blew this way out of proportion and made themselves look stupid in the process.
 
2013-05-01 02:30:40 PM
Seems like it would have been a good use of the ironic tag.  A rare correct use, at that.
 
2013-05-01 02:31:25 PM
This far and no one made the usual "packer" in relation to gay acts? I'm proud fark.

Anyways, fark dat church
 
2013-05-01 02:37:06 PM
 
2013-05-01 02:37:16 PM

catmandu: It's not like his tweet was different than anything else he has said. He has often commented that he would have had no problem playing (and showering) with a teammate who was openly gay as long as the teammate could play football, Besides, the tweet just said "Congrats to Jason Collins". Congrats for being gay? Congrats for being open? Congrats for acknowledging who you are? Congrats for being strong?

The church blew this way out of proportion and made themselves look stupid in the process.


Woah woah woah buddy.  The Church is against sodomy in all its forms, so you can take your smut-talk elsewhere.
 
2013-05-01 02:43:46 PM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: catmandu: It's not like his tweet was different than anything else he has said. He has often commented that he would have had no problem playing (and showering) with a teammate who was openly gay as long as the teammate could play football, Besides, the tweet just said "Congrats to Jason Collins". Congrats for being gay? Congrats for being open? Congrats for acknowledging who you are? Congrats for being strong?

The church blew this way out of proportion and made themselves look stupid in the process.

Woah woah woah buddy.  The Church is against sodomy in all its forms, so you can take your smut-talk elsewhere.


The church also conveniently ignores that the bible tells you that it is OK to sell kids into slavery, kill neighbors that work on the sabbath, and other such fun things. Convenient hole in the narrative, that. Why is anyone surprised?
 
2013-05-01 02:46:12 PM

xaks: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: catmandu: It's not like his tweet was different than anything else he has said. He has often commented that he would have had no problem playing (and showering) with a teammate who was openly gay as long as the teammate could play football, Besides, the tweet just said "Congrats to Jason Collins". Congrats for being gay? Congrats for being open? Congrats for acknowledging who you are? Congrats for being strong?

The church blew this way out of proportion and made themselves look stupid in the process.

Woah woah woah buddy.  The Church is against sodomy in all its forms, so you can take your smut-talk elsewhere.

The church also conveniently ignores that the bible tells you that it is OK to sell kids into slavery, kill neighbors that work on the sabbath, and other such fun things. Convenient hole in the narrative, that. Why is anyone surprised?


And what days of the week did Leroy Butler used to work on? Saturdays (college) and Sundays (NFL)! Kill the sinner!
 
2013-05-01 02:58:24 PM
Meanwhile, the latest asshole meme making the rounds on Facebook is that "TIm Tebow gets bashed for being a Christian, Jason Collins is praised for coming out."
 
2013-05-01 03:00:31 PM
The church apologized. But from the sounds of it, it was one of those, "We apologize that we put ourselves in the situation that let you make us look like bigots"-type apologies.

And then they thanked him for not name dropping the church.
 
2013-05-01 03:02:18 PM

TheBlackrose: The church apologized. But from the sounds of it, it was one of those, "We apologize that we put ourselves in the situation that let you make us look like bigots"-type apologies.

And then they thanked him for not name dropping the church.


And, while he's definitely taking the high road by doing so, and more power to him for it....I'd TOTALLY be on board with public flogging of that churches' image and reputation for this kind of shiat. They're the ones that brought it on themselves.
 
2013-05-01 03:28:54 PM

rynthetyn: Meanwhile, the latest asshole meme making the rounds on Facebook is that "TIm Tebow gets bashed for being a Christian, Jason Collins is praised for coming out."


Anything to nail themselves to some wood. They just ACHE to feel that hardness against their backs, to feel the spikes driven into their hands and feet, to whimper and moan as the pain overtakes them in religious ecstasy.

You know what? I think we should start persecuting Christians - lions and crucifixions and banning churches, prayer and religious imagery everywhere; just a full-on Romanization - for a few months just so they know what it's actually like.
 
2013-05-01 03:38:25 PM
That's farking sad.

CSB - I grew up in a Methodist Church.  In the early nineties, we got a music director who we all thought was gay, but we didn't care enough to find out.  Same thing with our organist.  A couple of years go by and some other members of the congregation apparently realized the presence of terrible evil in our midst and spoke to the pastor to protest.

The next sunday, the pastor gives a sermon about love and whatnot and in the middle of it stops and asks the music director to leave the service.  Music director (who didn't seem to know what was going on) left.  Pastor then invites people who feel that the music director shouldn't be able to love who he wants to to come up and speak.  Awkward silence ensues.  Like thirty seconds of silence.  Pastor picks the mike back up from the stand and says "well, that's enough of that then.  Go get Dr. Smith back."  It was like a John Hughes movie. Actually I guess in a John Hughes movie we would have all clapped when Dr. Smith came back in.  And I'd've gotten Molly Ringwald.  Meh.
 
2013-05-01 04:05:56 PM

Dr Dreidel: rynthetyn: Meanwhile, the latest asshole meme making the rounds on Facebook is that "TIm Tebow gets bashed for being a Christian, Jason Collins is praised for coming out."

Anything to nail themselves to some wood. They just ACHE to feel that hardness against their backs, to feel the spikes driven into their hands and feet, to whimper and moan as the pain overtakes them in religious ecstasy.

You know what? I think we should start persecuting Christians - lions and crucifixions and banning churches, prayer and religious imagery everywhere; just a full-on Romanization - for a few months just so they know what it's actually like.


I would so vote for this.

Not just Christians, ALL organized religions.
 
2013-05-01 04:19:42 PM

mooseyfate: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Benevolent Misanthrope: Butler said he told the pastor that he believes the church was trying to intimidate him.

"This is a form of bullying, what you're doing. 'You're trying to get me to do something I don't want to do,' " Butler said. "He disagreed, and I said, 'We agree to disagree' and he said, 'No, I'm right and you're wrong.' "

And this, right here, is what religion is all about.

Second time in as many days that I get to quote Lana Kane:

YUUUUP!


sploosh.

/amidoinitrite?
 
2013-05-01 05:05:16 PM

scottydoesntknow: Collins declined to identify the denomination or location of the church when contacted by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

The Journal Sentinel reports that the church has tried to reach Butler to apologize. Although he would accept the apology, he said he would decline to speak at the church.

I thought the Journal didn't know which church it was. How would they know the church wants to apologize?\

/Doubt the church would actually be sincere in that apology


Not one whit - the church is only taking the action because they just realized that their bigoted asshattery would go viral once it reached the Internet. Give it a few days, and we'll know exactly what church decided to try extortion on Butler.
 
KoC
2013-05-01 05:22:35 PM

rynthetyn: Meanwhile, the latest asshole meme making the rounds on Facebook is that "TIm Tebow gets bashed for being a Christian, Jason Collins is praised for coming out."


I've seen that one. What makes it even better is that it's based on a tweet from a farking Tebow parody account.
 
2013-05-01 05:27:55 PM

TheBlackrose: The church apologized. But from the sounds of it, it was one of those, "We apologize that we put ourselves in the situation that let you make us look like

report the unvarnished truth, which is that we are bigots who neither understand nor follow the teachings of the book we claim to revere above all others and we will beat you over the head with said book if you question our sincerity, piety or lack of following those teachings, because Jesus"-type apologies.

FTFY
 
2013-05-01 05:53:45 PM
I just want to say that not all of us Christians are like this church, and it sucks that a farker like me who chooses to enter these threads is assaulted by nothing but negative blanket statements. There are good Christians too!

/I don't feel persecuted though; my feelings aren't that fragile and I chose to come here
 
2013-05-01 06:13:05 PM

skrame: I just want to say that not all of us Christians are like this church, and it sucks that a farker like me who chooses to enter these threads is assaulted by nothing but negative blanket statements. There are good Christians too!

/I don't feel persecuted though; my feelings aren't that fragile and I chose to come here


More power to you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being religious. Problems only arise when entire religious institutes (Catholic Church, various Christian leagues, etc) purposefully stand in the way of forward progress for the human race. Jesus taught love and compassion, not hate and exclusion. Creationists and anti-homosexual churches/organizations are a problem, and they should be treated as such. It's a problem when ignorance is forced on people. It's a problem when you lobby congress to hold back people that are equal to you.
 
2013-05-01 06:20:03 PM

Killer Cars: Marcus Aurelius: Levites? Or is that blue jean wearers?

Actually, I just realized calling Leviticus or Levite-anything doesn't quite make sense if they're still disregarding some pretty blatant rules within it while choosing at will what to observe from it with fervor.

Maybe just calling them "assholes" is the best way to go.


ChINO. Christian In Name Only.

Let's get this in the dictionary.
 
2013-05-01 06:48:51 PM

KoC: rynthetyn: Meanwhile, the latest asshole meme making the rounds on Facebook is that "TIm Tebow gets bashed for being a Christian, Jason Collins is praised for coming out."

I've seen that one. What makes it even better is that it's based on a tweet from a farking Tebow parody account.


And I had to set someone straight who thought Tebow was the one who had tweeted it and thought lesser of him because of it. I feel kind of bad for Tebow because people keep projecting their persecution complex on to him, but he can't tell them to STFU without creating a shiatstorm of epic proportions.
 
2013-05-01 07:07:56 PM

mooseyfate: skrame: I just want to say that not all of us Christians are like this church, and it sucks that a farker like me who chooses to enter these threads is assaulted by nothing but negative blanket statements. There are good Christians too!

/I don't feel persecuted though; my feelings aren't that fragile and I chose to come here

More power to you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being religious. Problems only arise when entire religious institutes (Catholic Church, various Christian leagues, etc) purposefully stand in the way of forward progress for the human race. Jesus taught love and compassion, not hate and exclusion. Creationists and anti-homosexual churches/organizations are a problem, and they should be treated as such. It's a problem when ignorance is forced on people. It's a problem when you lobby congress to hold back people that are equal to you.


Agreed. Christianity, taken at absolute face value (belief in and following of the teachings of Jesus), provides a very good set of moral guidelines, such as "love thy neighbor as thyself," "turn the other cheek," and "that which you to do the least of my brothers, you do to me."

The problem I have with most self-identifying Christians is that they do not follow these teachings. Instead, they choose to ignore the parts that don't fit with whatever other beliefs they may have and are selective in their application of Christian teachings.

Unless I'm misremembering my readings of them, I don't recall reading the word "except" in any of the Gospels, especially in contexts such as "Do unto others as you would have done to you... except if they're gay, poor, sick, brown-skinned, from a different country, subscribe to a different faith, (insert your own personal -ism or -phobia here), etc., because if they are, go ahead and hate them all you like."

The biggest problem I have with Christianity, or any religion, is that religion is taught by humans to other humans, with sacred texts and tenets subject to interpretation, distortion and misuse by those doing the teaching. And that's why we get crap like what this Wisconsin church tried to pull... and people like Westboro Baptist, suicide bombers, abortion clinic bombers, etc.

Faith in a higher power is a different story, though. Tell me you believe in God, Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, Buddha, whomever or whatever- I'm cool with that. Tell me you're a member of religion X and "they're really cool and have the solution to all of life's problems, so you should totally join" and I'm gonna tune you right the hell out.

/get off my doorstep
//can't I just walk into Rite-Aid in peace, for fark's sake?
//slashies come in threes... almost like a trinity of some sort
 
2013-05-01 09:07:52 PM
There are two grownups in this story, and both of them are professional athletes.  Negroes, by the way.
 
2013-05-01 10:05:27 PM

rynthetyn: KoC: rynthetyn: Meanwhile, the latest asshole meme making the rounds on Facebook is that "TIm Tebow gets bashed for being a Christian, Jason Collins is praised for coming out."

I've seen that one. What makes it even better is that it's based on a tweet from a farking Tebow parody account.

And I had to set someone straight who thought Tebow was the one who had tweeted it and thought lesser of him because of it. I feel kind of bad for Tebow because people keep projecting their persecution complex on to him, but he can't tell them to STFU without creating a shiatstorm of epic proportions.


Perhaps, if he kept from dragging his religion into sports/football and discussions of it, there wouldn't be a problem? Ya know, Matthew 6:6 and all?
 
2013-05-02 06:20:51 AM

skrame: I just want to say that not all of us Christians are like this church, and it sucks that a farker like me who chooses to enter these threads is assaulted by nothing but negative blanket statements. There are good Christians too!

/I don't feel persecuted though; my feelings aren't that fragile and I chose to come here


www.therobotspajamas.com

get him! ;)
 
2013-05-02 02:05:31 PM

mooseyfate: It's a problem when ignorance is forced on people. It's a problem when you lobby congress to hold back people that are equal to you.


Gay marry me, moosey
 
2013-05-02 02:19:16 PM

Killer Cars: Marcus Aurelius: I bet the majority of the congregation is wearing cotton polyester blends and that many of them eat shellfish and get tattooed.

Seriously. "Christians" my ass; they're Leviticusites (or Leviticusians?)


Naw, you can't even call them Leviticans, otherwise they'd be following the 617 mitzvot like observant Orthodox Jews (and thus would be those "Messianic Jew"/"Hebrew Christian" fundies-who-keep-kosher types).

Paulines might be a bit more appropriate, because they do get the anti-gay whargarbl every bit as much from (the rather mistranslated in most fundy versions of the Bible) exhortation by Paul to not sleep with male temple prostitutes as much as they get it from the (again, rather mistranslated in context) Levitican call to not engage in ritual coitus with men.

A fun fact--most folks who haven't studied Levantine mythology outside of the Abrahamic faiths may not realise that in both ancient Greece and in Mesopotamian religion (and even Judaism, to an extent) that sex is HIGHLY ritualised, and the Greeks and followers of the Old Religion in Mesopotamia did actually have specific fertility rituals that involved the use of temple priests and priestesses.  This actually gets pretty explicitly hinted at in the story of Phinehas (who impaled an Israeli and his Midianite wife who were ritually consummating their marriage in temple...a ritual strongly associated with the Old Religion, and hence seen as desecrating to the temple of the Abrahamic fork of the Old Religion...no racists, no dominionists, it's not a condemnation of race-mixing or the Palestinians, damnit).

Also, those cultures did NOT have the same concept of sexual orientation as we do--in general, gay men were functionally considered a third sex (in Israel, a third sex which also included eunuchs--Jesus pretty explicitly noted this in one of the Gospels, interestingly) and Greece also considered gay men (not serving as temple gigolos) to be a third sex of sorts.  (Thailand, interestingly, does have something analgous to how the ancient world saw gay men--kathooey, "boy-ladies", which are considered to be a third gender of sorts.)   There is also some tantalising evidence that gay marriage, or at least gay committment ceremonies, DID exist in the Levant, and at least some scholars have speculated that the relation of David (yes, THAT David) and Johnathan was accepted as essentially a same-sex relationship equivalent to marriage (some of the original language uses terminology more appropriate to marriage than a mere "brotherly love").

Paul's term that usually gets translated as "homosexual men" or "effeminate men" in fundy versions (and older versions) of the Bible doesn't appear in Koine Greek in any other source, and also is not the same as the conventional word used in Koine Greek writings for a gay man who is not a ritual temple prostitute (derogatory or otherwise)--the best info we can give is that it was a derogatory term for specifically a temple gigolo (who provided, ahem, "comfort services" in the context of formal religious rites--rites that were, shall we say, associated with The Major Competition at the time).

(Also note I'm speaking specifically re gay men.  Women, alas, were generally considered as property with very little rights and outside of certain (Old Religion of Greece) religious communities such as Lesbos, "dom" lesbians were generally not well tolerated and repressed as being essentially "uppity" and "not knowing their place". (The stories of Deborah and the Queen of Sheba are rare exceptions in the Bible canon--and the Queen of Sheba had the excuse that she was the queen of a foreign land (comprising part of what is now Ethiopia as well as part of what is now Yemen) with a very different culture.  There wasn't even a category of "third sex" inclusive of women (as there is, say, with the Dine concept of naadleh, the "third sex/between genders" category that gay men, lesbians, and transgendered people are included in; probably the best translation of naadleh in English would be "genderqueer person who can work with 'male' and 'female' things and thus is particularly powerful in this regard").)

/and yes, those watchers of Gundam 00 will pick up on the naadleh thing--both the mobile suit and its pilots are a prime example :D
 
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