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(New York Daily News)   Undercover TV reporter in Denver buys several semiautomatic guns from private sellers in just hours, no questions asked, in places like Babies R Us parking lots   (nydailynews.com) divider line 316
    More: Scary, bill of sales, Uzi, adult toys  
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2681 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 May 2013 at 2:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 12:22:53 PM  
What makes transactions like this acceptable to the second amendment people?
 
2013-05-01 12:34:02 PM  

WalkingCarpet: What makes transactions like this acceptable to the second amendment people?


Much like Sith, they speak only in absolutes.
 
2013-05-01 12:36:52 PM  
OMG! They didn't check his ID?  Then how could they tell that the obviously middle-aged reporter wasn't <18 years old?!

According to TFA, these transactions aren't even illegal.  BFD.  Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword.  If the guns were automatic I could see describing them as such. But other than that, I don't care. Are bolt action guns the only type I'm supposed to not fear?
 
2013-05-01 12:43:31 PM  
Gun people don't need to worry about anything. Thanks to you guys, there are 80 squillion guns in this country, and a black market for them as strong as the open market. No gun legislation in this country could make guns legitimately harder to get.

So, people are going to die, but at least you have your hobby.
 
2013-05-01 12:47:11 PM  
Bernstein was able to obtain several high-powered guns from private sellers in Denver-area parking lots - a legal transaction in Colorado that requires no background check or waiting period to buy the weapons.

Then... why is this news?
 
2013-05-01 12:49:35 PM  

Honest Bender: According to TFA, these transactions aren't even illegal. BFD. Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword. If the guns were automatic I could see describing them as such. But other than that, I don't care. Are bolt action guns the only type I'm supposed to not fear?


Maybe, just maybe, that they were used a description for the type of gun and nothing more. I know that doesn't fit into the NRA promoted sense of outrage and victimhood, but it's possible.
 
2013-05-01 12:49:35 PM  

the_rev: Bernstein was able to obtain several high-powered guns from private sellers in Denver-area parking lots - a legal transaction in Colorado that requires no background check or waiting period to buy the weapons.

Then... why is this news?


Because it's stupid?
 
2013-05-01 01:08:05 PM  

Honest Bender: OMG! They didn't check his ID?  Then how could they tell that the obviously middle-aged reporter wasn't <18 years old?!

According to TFA, these transactions aren't even illegal.  BFD.  Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword.  If the guns were automatic I could see describing them as such. But other than that, I don't care. Are bolt action guns the only type I'm supposed to not fear?


That's the point.
 
2013-05-01 01:12:32 PM  
Sensationalism and playing upon emotion is not new to the industry
 
2013-05-01 01:18:00 PM  

the_rev: Bernstein was able to obtain several high-powered guns from private sellers in Denver-area parking lots - a legal transaction in Colorado that requires no background check or waiting period to buy the weapons.

Then... why is this news?


Because he could then drop them into his trunk and drive anywhere in the country thus proving that local gun laws are easily avoided and so we need a national standard.
 
2013-05-01 01:38:35 PM  
OMG. pants. shat.
 
2013-05-01 01:44:19 PM  

cman: Sensationalism and playing upon emotion is not new to the industry


"This literally happened."

"Sensationalism and emotion!"
 
2013-05-01 01:48:08 PM  

James!: the_rev: Bernstein was able to obtain several high-powered guns from private sellers in Denver-area parking lots - a legal transaction in Colorado that requires no background check or waiting period to buy the weapons.

Then... why is this news?

Because he could then drop them into his trunk and drive anywhere in the country thus proving that local gun laws are easily avoided and so we need a national standard.


What he could have done was, with guns in the trunk, (legally)park within eyesight of an elementary school, frame the school, draw back and look at the camera and say, "I got here perfectly legally with no background checks."

In fact, if there are any local TV people reading this...
 
2013-05-01 01:53:29 PM  

James!: Because he could then drop them into his trunk and drive anywhere in the country thus proving that local gun laws are easily avoided and so we need a national standard.


The only acceptable solution is to register all firearms owners into a national database listing name, address and all owned firearms by make, caliber and serial number and randomly searc...er audit them to make sure that they haven't improperly disposed of them in any way shape or form. These people are evil and need to be scrutinized to make sure  that their evil does not spread.
 
2013-05-01 01:55:22 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: James!: Because he could then drop them into his trunk and drive anywhere in the country thus proving that local gun laws are easily avoided and so we need a national standard.

The only acceptable solution is to register all firearms owners into a national database listing name, address and all owned firearms by make, caliber and serial number and randomly searc...er audit them to make sure that they haven't improperly disposed of them in any way shape or form. These people are evil and need to be scrutinized to make sure  that their evil does not spread.


That's a terrible suggestion.
 
2013-05-01 01:56:14 PM  

James!: Dancin_In_Anson: James!: Because he could then drop them into his trunk and drive anywhere in the country thus proving that local gun laws are easily avoided and so we need a national standard.

The only acceptable solution is to register all firearms owners into a national database listing name, address and all owned firearms by make, caliber and serial number and randomly searc...er audit them to make sure that they haven't improperly disposed of them in any way shape or form. These people are evil and need to be scrutinized to make sure  that their evil does not spread.

That's a terrible suggestion.


He prefers to live in a world of his fantasy fears, then legislate from that perspective.
 
2013-05-01 01:56:33 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: The only acceptable solution is to register all firearms owners into a national database listing name, address and all owned firearms by make, caliber and serial number and randomly searc...er audit them to make sure that they haven't improperly disposed of them in any way shape or form. These people are evil and need to be scrutinized to make sure  that their evil does not spread.


Why does it have to be either a free-for-all or evil national gun registry with nothing in between?  How about we just require people to do the transaction through a licensed firearms dealer who conducts a background check. Tough shiat if it adds to the cost of your purchase and/or if you have to wait a few days.
 
2013-05-01 01:59:20 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: James!: Because he could then drop them into his trunk and drive anywhere in the country thus proving that local gun laws are easily avoided and so we need a national standard.

The only acceptable solution is to register all firearms owners into a national database listing name, address and all owned firearms by make, caliber and serial number and randomly searc...er audit them to make sure that they haven't improperly disposed of them in any way shape or form. These people are evil and need to be scrutinized to make sure  that their evil does not spread.


Sounds like a good way to keep things well regulated. Plus we'll know who else we can depend on when the pigs come
 
2013-05-01 02:03:45 PM  
It's the only way to be sure kids. Gun owners are dangerous and need to be controlled.
 
2013-05-01 02:06:57 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: It's the only way to be sure kids. Gun owners are dangerous and need to be controlled.


Your frantic hyperbole is dangerous and needs to be controlled. With medication.

/with all due respect
 
2013-05-01 02:08:06 PM  
While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.

If state A has trouble enforcing its laws because state B has very lax laws isn't it the job of the federal government to mediate that?  Especially if state B's laws are allowing forbidden products to flow over into state A.
 
2013-05-01 02:10:15 PM  

James!: While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.


What good is your

James!: national standard

if nothing is to be done with it?
 
2013-05-01 02:15:01 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: James!: While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.

What good is your James!: national standard if nothing is to be done with it?


WalkingCarpet: Why does it have to be either a free-for-all or evil national gun registry with nothing in between?



Why does it have to be Tyrrany, or Nothing?
 
2013-05-01 02:17:23 PM  

WalkingCarpet: What makes transactions like this acceptable to the second amendment people?


I live in PA where you can own virtually anything you can get your hands on, but you need a background check first.  Private sales go through registered gun dealers (some of whom are admittedly shaky but still).

This just blows my mind.
 
2013-05-01 02:19:34 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: James!: While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.

What good is your James!: national standard if nothing is to be done with it?


Oh, something will have to be done.  Minimum standards across the board need to be enforced.  Nothing close to your hysterical nightmares, but some people can't be reasoned with.
 
2013-05-01 02:21:47 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I live in PA where you can own virtually anything you can get your hands on, but you need a background check first.  Private sales go through registered gun dealers (some of whom are admittedly shaky but still).

This just blows my mind.


That's what I said I think should happen nationally upthread.

How about we just require people to do the transaction through a licensed firearms dealer who conducts a background check. Tough shiat if it adds to the cost of your purchase and/or if you have to wait a few days.

Here's what I have to do to buy/sell a car:

* Complete and sign the reverse side of the Certificate of Title and give it to the new owner along with a Bill of Sale (form H-31). You may draft your own Bill of Sale (form H-31), as there is no special form required.  If you are drafting your own bill of sale it must contain the following information - name and address of purchaser; name and address of seller; description of vehicle (make, model, year, color, vehicle identification number); sales price; date of sale; signature of seller.
* As a seller you should keep a copy of the completed Title and Bill of Sale for your records.
* Remove and return the license plates to the DMV with the registration certificate, and ask that they be cancelled. You will then be given a receipt which you should keep for your records.
* You may be entitled to a partial refund of your registration fee.
* NOTE: Until you cancel your plates, the vehicle is subject to property tax assessment in the town of record for that vehicle. If you receive an additional property tax bill for the vehicle you should check with your local property tax assessor for a prorated bill showing your cancelled plate receipt and a copy of the Bill of Sale for the vehicle.
* You must maintain liability insurance on the registration as long as it is active; therefore, do not cancel the insurance on the vehicle until the plates have been returned and cancelled.
* The new owner will then be required to register the vehicle in his/her name and apply for a new Certificate of Title and pay any applicable fees.


Here's what I have to do to buy/sell a gun in some states:

1. Show up in a parking lot
2. Hand over money/profit


It's stupid.
 
2013-05-01 02:23:17 PM  

James!: Minimum standards across the board need to be enforced.


Compliance and enforcement. How do you propose it be done?
 
2013-05-01 02:23:40 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Private sales go through registered gun dealers (some of whom are admittedly shaky but still).


Most of the reason that they are "shaky" is that the FBI is woefully behind in their auditing of sellers.
 
2013-05-01 02:25:55 PM  
Were any of these firearms subsequently used in a crime?
 
2013-05-01 02:29:34 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: James!: Minimum standards across the board need to be enforced.

Compliance and enforcement. How do you propose it be done?


I'm not opposed to a national database similar to the ones that track cars ownership.  WalkingCarpet's list of requirements to transfer ownership of a car could be modified to govern gun sales.
 
2013-05-01 02:31:09 PM  

WalkingCarpet: Marcus Aurelius: I live in PA where you can own virtually anything you can get your hands on, but you need a background check first.  Private sales go through registered gun dealers (some of whom are admittedly shaky but still).

This just blows my mind.

That's what I said I think should happen nationally upthread.

How about we just require people to do the transaction through a licensed firearms dealer who conducts a background check. Tough shiat if it adds to the cost of your purchase and/or if you have to wait a few days.

Here's what I have to do to buy/sell a car:

* Complete and sign the reverse side of the Certificate of Title and give it to the new owner along with a Bill of Sale (form H-31). You may draft your own Bill of Sale (form H-31), as there is no special form required.  If you are drafting your own bill of sale it must contain the following information - name and address of purchaser; name and address of seller; description of vehicle (make, model, year, color, vehicle identification number); sales price; date of sale; signature of seller.
* As a seller you should keep a copy of the completed Title and Bill of Sale for your records.
* Remove and return the license plates to the DMV with the registration certificate, and ask that they be cancelled. You will then be given a receipt which you should keep for your records.
* You may be entitled to a partial refund of your registration fee.
* NOTE: Until you cancel your plates, the vehicle is subject to property tax assessment in the town of record for that vehicle. If you receive an additional property tax bill for the vehicle you should check with your local property tax assessor for a prorated bill showing your cancelled plate receipt and a copy of the Bill of Sale for the vehicle.
* You must maintain liability insurance on the registration as long as it is active; therefore, do not cancel the insurance on the vehicle until the plates have been returned and cancelled.
* The new owner will then be re ...


I can own as large or fast of car as I want.  I currently own a motorcycle that does 200+ mph.

But current gun laws restrict the size and capacity of the weapon that I can purchase.  It is as if they law restricted you to a 40 hp vechicle.  If I was allowed to own as many operating tanks, howitzers, etc, as I wanted, I wouldn't have a problem registering them as a I would a car.
 
2013-05-01 02:32:05 PM  

Honest Bender: OMG! They didn't check his ID?  Then how could they tell that the obviously middle-aged reporter wasn't <18 years old?!

According to TFA, these transactions aren't even illegal.  BFD.   Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword.  If the guns were automatic I could see describing them as such. But other than that, I don't care. Are bolt action guns the only type I'm supposed to not fear?



Not to mention the emotional appeal of "ZOMG.....it took place in a Babies R Us parking lot!"

Would the gun grabbing crowd feel better if it had taken place in a Costco parking lot?
 
2013-05-01 02:34:04 PM  

James!: I'm not opposed to a national database similar to the ones that track cars ownership


Now you're talking! Ok...gonna have to get all of the existing firearms "titled" (for lack of a better term). How are you going to handle that?
 
2013-05-01 02:34:16 PM  

minoridiot: current gun laws restrict the size and capacity of the weapon that I can purchase


Huh?
 
2013-05-01 02:36:32 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: James!: I'm not opposed to a national database similar to the ones that track cars ownership

Now you're talking! Ok...gonna have to get all of the existing firearms "titled" (for lack of a better term). How are you going to handle that?


Fascism, DIA, I'm going to do it with fascism.
 
2013-05-01 02:36:35 PM  

James!: While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.

If state A has trouble enforcing its laws because state B has very lax laws isn't it the job of the federal government to mediate that? Especially if state B's laws are allowing forbidden products to flow over into state B.


The unenforceability of State A's neurotic, ill-conceived laws is State A's problem to realize alone.
 
2013-05-01 02:37:39 PM  

violentsalvation: James!: While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.

If state A has trouble enforcing its laws because state B has very lax laws isn't it the job of the federal government to mediate that? Especially if state B's laws are allowing forbidden products to flow over into state B.

The unenforceability of State A's neurotic, ill-conceived laws is State A's problem to realize alone.


Not in this country.
 
2013-05-01 02:39:39 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: James!: Because he could then drop them into his trunk and drive anywhere in the country thus proving that local gun laws are easily avoided and so we need a national standard.

The only acceptable solution is to register all firearms owners into a national database listing name, address and all owned firearms by make, caliber and serial number and randomly searc...er audit them to make sure that they haven't improperly disposed of them in any way shape or form. These people are evil and need to be scrutinized to make sure  that their evil does not spread.


Or universal background checks like any reasonable person agree makes sense.
 
2013-05-01 02:40:02 PM  

Honest Bender: Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword.


Wait, so you get outraged when they call an AR-15 an "automatic" AND you get outraged when they correctly call it a semiautomatic?
 
2013-05-01 02:41:39 PM  

James!: violentsalvation: James!: While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.

If state A has trouble enforcing its laws because state B has very lax laws isn't it the job of the federal government to mediate that? Especially if state B's laws are allowing forbidden products to flow over into state B.

The unenforceability of State A's neurotic, ill-conceived laws is State A's problem to realize alone.

Not in this country.


Actually, the ability of the Fed to shove a law down the throats of the 50 states is pretty limited. Not even a gun statement, but overall unless money can be toed into acceptance (like speed limits were "bought" with Fed road money) it is very unlikely it's gonna fly. There are enough conservative states that an Amendment is never going to happen.
 
2013-05-01 02:41:45 PM  

James!: Dancin_In_Anson: James!: I'm not opposed to a national database similar to the ones that track cars ownership

Now you're talking! Ok...gonna have to get all of the existing firearms "titled" (for lack of a better term). How are you going to handle that?

Fascism, DIA, I'm going to do it with fascism.


Earlier, when you said we should ignore him? You were right.
 
2013-05-01 02:43:08 PM  

WalkingCarpet: Here's what I have to do to buy/sell a car: . . .


You should be a little more specific, that's what you have to do if you buy a car and want to use it on public roads. To buy a car that is only going to be kept in a garage or raced on private tracks, pretty much none of that is required (with exception that it's a road going car that you're no longer registering or titling).

If you want to buy an offroad, private vehicle, all it takes is a fist full of cash, and a trailer to take it home.
 
2013-05-01 02:43:23 PM  
This thread could potentially be the greatest thread in the history of mankind.

-NRA pussy defenders.

-Liberal "I told you so"ers.

-Not one f*cking soul addressing the underlying social issues that cause gun violence.

It'll have it all!
 
2013-05-01 02:44:01 PM  

tricycleracer: Honest Bender: Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword.

Wait, so you get outraged when they call an AR-15 an "automatic" AND you get outraged when they correctly call it a semiautomatic?


To be fair, it gets discouraging when laws are proposed by people that don't even want to educate themselves on the subject as a whole. Just banning "Black, ugly guns" is kinda silly.
 
2013-05-01 02:44:33 PM  

James!: If state A has trouble enforcing its laws because state B has very lax laws isn't it the job of the federal government to mediate that?  Especially if state B's laws are allowing forbidden products to flow over into state A.


Are you telling me I should no longer be able to buy fireworks from Indiana/Wisconsin?

What kind of monster are you?
 
2013-05-01 02:44:45 PM  

R.A.Danny: James!: violentsalvation: James!: While DIA is content to build himself a cross made of guns, let us ignore him and talk like adults.

If state A has trouble enforcing its laws because state B has very lax laws isn't it the job of the federal government to mediate that? Especially if state B's laws are allowing forbidden products to flow over into state B.

The unenforceability of State A's neurotic, ill-conceived laws is State A's problem to realize alone.

Not in this country.

Actually, the ability of the Fed to shove a law down the throats of the 50 states is pretty limited. Not even a gun statement, but overall unless money can be toed into acceptance (like speed limits were "bought" with Fed road money) it is very unlikely it's gonna fly. There are enough conservative states that an Amendment is never going to happen.


This is the conversation I want to have.

My thought is that if an item is flowing across state lines (pollution, commercial products, people) then the Federal government would have justification to step in.  So unless a state could argue that the guns sold in their borders are never going to leave their borders they really wouldn't be able to prevent it from being an interstate issue.
 
2013-05-01 02:44:54 PM  

R.A.Danny: tricycleracer: Honest Bender: Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword.

Wait, so you get outraged when they call an AR-15 an "automatic" AND you get outraged when they correctly call it a semiautomatic?

To be fair, it gets discouraging when laws are proposed by people that don't even want to educate themselves on the subject as a whole. Just banning "Black, ugly guns" is kinda silly.


How about intentionally reducing something complex to "black, ugly" in order to make it seem more absurd?
 
2013-05-01 02:45:43 PM  

R.A.Danny: tricycleracer: Honest Bender: Also, way to throw around semi-automatic as a scare-buzzword.

Wait, so you get outraged when they call an AR-15 an "automatic" AND you get outraged when they correctly call it a semiautomatic?

To be fair, it gets discouraging when laws are proposed by people that don't even want to educate themselves on the subject as a whole. Just banning "Black, ugly guns" is kinda silly.


Semantics.  Strawman.  These are the building blocks in which a Farkhood is built.

"IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A FIRING PIN IS, YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE GUNS!"
 
2013-05-01 02:45:48 PM  
"Not once did someone call police while Bernstein looked at, dry-fired and bought the guns in broad daylight in store parking lots."

Says it all.
 
2013-05-01 02:46:08 PM  

WalkingCarpet: What makes transactions like this acceptable to the second amendment people?


Nothing, they are illegal and should be stopped. However don't let that stop you from banning responsible adults from owning scary looking guns.
 
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