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(New York Daily News)   Giving five-year-old "My First Rifle" yields predictable results   (nydailynews.com) divider line 613
    More: Sad, Kentucky, Lexington Herald-Leader, .22 Long Rifle  
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12255 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2013 at 11:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 12:13:41 PM

bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.


I gave my kids weapons at that age. The differences:

It was only ever out of the case at the range (or for cleaning, but that I did alone for several years)

I held all the ammo, and only loaded it shortly before firing (and I mean RIGHT before firing)

The child was taught it was a WEAPON THAT KILLS and to NEVER point it at anything other than the target AT THE RANGE.

The weapon was kept locked in a locked case (in a locked safe) with the bolt removed. The bolt was locked (along with my other rifle bolts) in a separate lockbox. Finally the ammo was in a different locked room, each caliber in their own lock boxes.

We didn't take chances. My elders didn't take chances with us either. From pellet rifles to bows to firearms, it was relentlessly drilled into us that they kill whatever they are aimed at so don't point it at anyone EVER.
 
2013-05-01 12:13:59 PM
I've learned two things form conservatives on Fark today:

15-year-olds are too young to be trusted with birth control.

And

5-year-olds are adult enough to be trusted with guns.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:27 PM
I blame the movie "Natural Born Killers," and violent video games for this.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:52 PM

hardinparamedic: Loaf's Tray: Maybe the safety failed, children's weapons are often not manufactured to the same rigorous quality standards as the real thing...hell, two of the Hello Kitty hand grenades I bought last week went off in the car on the way home...

So that's why you're not allowed within 100 foot of schools anymore, and had to go door to door to inform people you were living there?


Surprisingly that had nothing to do with it...
 
2013-05-01 12:14:59 PM

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


41 dead kids is no big deal. Really come on guys, accidents happen.

You have some seriously farked up logic dude.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:59 PM

A_Listless_Wanderer: 15-year-olds are too young to be trusted with birth contro

l

If you read that thread, you should have also learned that women are all filthy whores who seek to victimize men.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:05 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.


Yeah, I think we've had enough discussions about gun lawsas such. Maybe we need to have a discussion about our attitudes about guns. About how much we like them, and how much misplaced faith we place in them. Of course, that would be hard, and ranting against gun laws is easy, and we are an intellectually lazy people - so that probably won't happen.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:24 PM

Itstoearly: hardinparamedic: This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here, huge success.

It's hard to understate my satisfaction.

For the good of all of us...

(EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DEAD)

kbronsito: or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)

No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

If he's too young to understand the gravitas of a concept such as death, then he's too young to play with a bang stick.

Bull.  5 years is old enough to teach how to properly handle a gun.  Not that I would ever trust one alone with one without adult supervision, but a five year old certainly has the mental capacity to learn "Don't point at people or animals, don't hold the trigger unless you are aiming at the paper target, assume there is always a bullet in the gun"


You are crazy!  Having worked with 5 year olds, I can tell you that they regularly do things they are told not to do.  And they have no real concept of death or permanent injury.  Anyone who thinks a five year old is old enough to have a gun is seriously delusional!
 
2013-05-01 12:15:31 PM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-01 12:15:31 PM

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: A .22? What the hell were these parents thinking?

I dunno. You should ask  dirtybopper. He's actually defending this act.


A LOT of kids in/around that age used to be given their own firearm.  Many still are today.

It's not act of giving a kid their first firearm, it's the fact they very obviously didn't educate their kid properly, nor did they adequately gauge that kid's ability to responsibly handle one.

We don't know exactly how this firearm was stored either.

Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?
 
2013-05-01 12:15:44 PM

tricycleracer: You can only buy a gun for your kid if you're a good parent, but only a bad parent would want to buy a gun for their kid.

A real "Catch .22".


Well, no. I can comprehend teaching a child about guns. Even at 5. As others in this thread who are *sane* have said, you make sure it is always in the gun safe when you are not physically there.

However, if I were to buy my hypothetical future five-year-old a weapon to learn how to use guns and how to treat them properly (.. something i do not intend to do, but I am engaging in hypotheticals here...)

I do not think I would purchase them a "My First Rifle" that is DESIGNED to look like a toy and have nice, pretty colors.

Since that ENTIRELY UNDERMINES THE LESSON that GUNS ARE NOT F*CKING TOYS.

/Not shouting at you, just gobsmacked by the stupidity of such a product.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:55 PM

FlashHarry: this wouldn't have happened if the two-year-old had been carrying.


And why wasn't the Mom packing an equalizer? She should have protected her little daughter from violent attacks from her siblings. Give Mom a hog leg now!
 
2013-05-01 12:16:22 PM
Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.
 
2013-05-01 12:16:33 PM

sammyk: 41 dead kids is no big deal. Really come on guys, accidents happen.

You have some seriously farked up logic dude.


You have to understand the mentality.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-01 12:16:45 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.


And the number would be what without those laws? Higher, maybe? Your position that we should do nothing because current laws are not 100% effective is, well, stupid.
 
2013-05-01 12:16:45 PM

Felgraf: et alone the idea of marketing a gun like "My First Rifle", as if it were a goddamn *TOY*...


Who cares how they market it?  Gun stores don't sell rifles to 5 year olds. They sell them to adults, for whom all responsibility lies.
 
2013-05-01 12:16:51 PM

GiantRex: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 223x226]


Oh god. Wrong thread. REALLY wrong thread...
 
2013-05-01 12:17:20 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: There is no set of circumstances under which it would be okay for a child to handle a loaded firearm in a dwelling.


What if the dwelling is being broken into?
 
2013-05-01 12:17:37 PM

Itstoearly


I don't think you understood my post, because we're pretty much in agreement.


I think we sort of agree. Where we diverge is that I do not agree that having the adult also holding on to the loaded firearm in this situation would have made it okay.

It might have prevented the other child from dying if the adult had controlled the muzzle direction, but it still could have resulted in a negligent discharge indoors.
 
2013-05-01 12:17:57 PM

inglixthemad: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

I gave my kids weapons at that age. The differences:

It was only ever out of the case at the range (or for cleaning, but that I did alone for several years)

I held all the ammo, and only loaded it shortly before firing (and I mean RIGHT before firing)

The child was taught it was a WEAPON THAT KILLS and to NEVER point it at anything other than the target AT THE RANGE.

The weapon was kept locked in a locked case (in a locked safe) with the bolt removed. The bolt was locked (along with my other rifle bolts) in a separate lockbox. Finally the ammo was in a different locked room, each caliber in their own lock boxes.

We didn't take chances. My elders didn't take chances with us either. From pellet rifles to bows to firearms, it was relentlessly drilled into us that they kill whatever they are aimed at so don't point it at anyone EVER.


I also suspect the gun you used/trained your kid on wasn't painted bright and pretty colors, and you taught your children that guns are not toys.
 
2013-05-01 12:17:58 PM
I'm not sure how we evolved from making sure toy guns in no way look like real guns, but it's OK to make real guns look like toys.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:03 PM

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


god damn, dude. have you no heart? have you no soul?

you cant even sack up for this one and say, "this was wrong and bad", but you have to pretend it's a-ok, just a thing that happens, oh welp?

take a step back, go look your kids in the eyes, do what ever you have to do, but Christ, try and have human feeling once in a while, huh? a five year old just killed his baby sibling on accident, for no earthly reason.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:15 PM

Itstoearly: hardinparamedic: This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here, huge success.

It's hard to understate my satisfaction.

For the good of all of us...

(EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DEAD)

kbronsito: or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)

No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

If he's too young to understand the gravitas of a concept such as death, then he's too young to play with a bang stick.

Bull.  5 years is old enough to teach how to properly handle a gun.  Not that I would ever trust one alone with one without adult supervision, but a five year old certainly has the mental capacity to learn "Don't point at people or animals, don't hold the trigger unless you are aiming at the paper target, assume there is always a bullet in the gun"


No Bull. Have a look here at the emotional development of a five year old. They have not yet learned the concept of death. They cannot yet view the world from another's point of view. They do not understand ethical or moral values.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:23 PM
as a lexingtonian and this was just covered on the noon news, getting a kick ... etcetera etcetera.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:33 PM

crzybtch: Only 41 kids dead? Oh, then no problem. Lets keep kids and guns together.

Or maybe....ZERO kids dead might be a better idea??

Like it would RUIN someone's life if they didn't touch a gun til they are 21? Seriously??


ZERO is a good number.  Like it would seriously RUIN someone's life if they didn't ride in or drive a car until they are 21?  Seriously??
 
2013-05-01 12:18:50 PM

GiantRex: GiantRex: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 223x226]

Oh god. Wrong thread. REALLY wrong thread...


Are you looking for the "My First Troll Thread?"
 
2013-05-01 12:18:55 PM
Terribly sad.
I'm sick of debating the merits of guns (and lack thereof).

Just sad.
 
2013-05-01 12:19:05 PM

pippi longstocking: Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.


As we become a more crowded, urbanized, civilized society that will happen - but not in our lifetimes, not in America.
 
2013-05-01 12:19:22 PM
i.imgur.com

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.
 
2013-05-01 12:19:40 PM
This was one of the photos on the now-removed Crickett Firearms Facebook page (Cached copy at  http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-nZxrouLuZQJ:www . facebook.com/pages/Crickett-Firearms-My-First-Rifle/312272590517%3Fsk% 3Dphotos+&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Somehow, I think childproofing the gun is probably the better way to go.

www.drydocksports.com
 
2013-05-01 12:19:43 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: You can get your miscarried child mounted in a "memory box"


I'll have you know it's called a dead babyquarium.
 
2013-05-01 12:20:39 PM
I received my first rifle, a .22, for my 6th birthday. Many of my friends got the same thing.  The chief difference is that my parents and grandparents weren't idiots about it.  As were the parents of my friends.
 
2013-05-01 12:20:49 PM
Darwin shoots... and scores. The crowd goes wild!!!
 
2013-05-01 12:21:28 PM

pedrop357: Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?


Riding in cars (passive occupant) is the same as someone actively using a weapon?  I don't understand your logic.
 
2013-05-01 12:21:48 PM

pippi longstocking: Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.


2/10
 
2013-05-01 12:22:18 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: crzybtch: dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.

Only 41 kids dead?  Oh, then no problem.  Lets keep kids and guns together.

Or maybe....ZERO kids dead might be a better idea??

Like it would RUIN someone's life if they didn't touch a gun til they are 21?  Seriously??

Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.


Well then lets give every 5 year old a bottle of Jack and a rifle, that ought to solve the problem!
 
2013-05-01 12:22:37 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.


Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:16 PM

darth_badger: And all Ralphie got was a Daisy Red Rider BB gun .


Ralphie wasn't 5.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:39 PM

crzybtch: Having worked with 5 year olds, I can tell you that they regularly do things they are told not to do.


Sure, when you're not paying attention to them.  When you're actively watching them, which you should be doing if you're taking them shooting, they'll generally do whatever an adult tells them to do, since the attention itself is a reward for obedience.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:51 PM

pedrop357: pippi longstocking: Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.

2/10


Actually, he/she's correct. You have a constitutional right to gun ownership (with certain restrictions). You do not have a constitutional right to a driver's license, only to the freedom of travel. Driving is a privilege that the state deemed legally restrictable based on the potential harm a 2 ton missile could do traveling at 55 miles an hour.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:52 PM

noitsnot: I don't really believe the details of the incident -

1) A family obviously familiar with guns "accidentally" leaves it loaded?
2) The single shot fired while the boy was "playing with" the rifle just happened to hit and kill his sister?

I have the nasty suspicion that the kid aimed it at his sister and pulled the trigger - just like the cool guys do on TV.


Eh.  Never put down to malice what can also be explained by stupidity.

There's a LOT of gun "enthusiasts" / nuts who don't know dick about basic gun safety.  All they know is they like the loud noises and booms and etc.
 
2013-05-01 12:24:07 PM

tricycleracer: Yogimus: Gotta admit, though... it IS a pretty good litmus test of someone's parenting skills.

You can only buy a gun for your kid if you're a good parent, but only a bad parent would want to buy a gun for their kid.

A real "Catch .22".


See, here is the trouble: Folks actually assume that the act of purchasing equates to parenting.
 
2013-05-01 12:24:30 PM

pedrop357: Felgraf: et alone the idea of marketing a gun like "My First Rifle", as if it were a goddamn *TOY*...

Who cares how they market it?  Gun stores don't sell rifles to 5 year olds. They sell them to adults, for whom all responsibility lies.


NAh, the adults don't have responsibility. After all, Dittybopper has assured us that this is just 'an accident'.

And if they're not charging the adults in this scenario with a crime, well, I guess no one's being held responsible, are they?
 
2013-05-01 12:25:02 PM
'The county coroner local hick has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

hicks + no education + guns = funeral party

losers
 
2013-05-01 12:25:13 PM

pedrop357: Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


Tell me how a gun with a trigger lock on it, put safely away behind a keyed door, is the same as a parent driving recklessly into a wall  or some drunk idiot t-boning the family sedan?

Kinesthetics of Trauma, how do they work?
 
2013-05-01 12:25:16 PM

hardinparamedic: A child at five years of age does not understand the gravity or concept of Death.


This is so sadly true. A friend of mine has a little girl who decided that her kitten should go swimming. The kitten drowned and she didn't understand why kitty wouldn't wake up. :(
 
2013-05-01 12:25:36 PM

pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


How many of them were 5yr old and driving?
 
2013-05-01 12:25:52 PM

TNel: pedrop357: Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?

Riding in cars (passive occupant) is the same as someone actively using a weapon?  I don't understand your logic.


I think I may have found your problem.  You're assuming things that clearly don't exist.  Logic doesn't often enter gun debates.  In fact, it seems to actively avoid them altogether.
 
2013-05-01 12:26:24 PM
Well, it's either this or a freak gardening accident, better leave it unsolved.
 
2013-05-01 12:26:44 PM

Jim_Callahan: crzybtch: Having worked with 5 year olds, I can tell you that they regularly do things they are told not to do.

Sure, when you're not paying attention to them.  When you're actively watching them, which you should be doing if you're taking them shooting, they'll generally do whatever an adult tells them to do, since the attention itself is a reward for obedience.


don't try and be sensible in a gun nut threadjack.
 
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