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(New York Daily News)   Giving five-year-old "My First Rifle" yields predictable results   ( nydailynews.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Kentucky, Lexington Herald-Leader, .22 Long Rifle  
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12340 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2013 at 11:44 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



607 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-05-01 10:55:33 AM  
You should see the bill from the taxidermist.
 
2013-05-01 10:59:04 AM  
The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.
 
2013-05-01 11:06:08 AM  
That toddler was coming right at him.
 
2013-05-01 11:08:53 AM  
this wouldn't have happened if the two-year-old had been carrying.
 
2013-05-01 11:11:31 AM  
The only solution to a bad five year old with a gun is a good five year old with a gun.
 
2013-05-01 11:13:02 AM  
Wait wait wait, I have another.  When will Obama call this a terrorist act?
 
2013-05-01 11:15:58 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: You should see the bill from the taxidermist.


"He gonna have a heart attack when he sees what I brung him!"
 
2013-05-01 11:17:20 AM  

bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.


Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.
 
2013-05-01 11:18:20 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: jehovahs witness protection: You should see the bill from the taxidermist.

"He gonna have a heart attack when he sees what I brung him!"


How farked would that be if the parents did have the toddler stuffed and kept it in the house?  Like make the older kid apologize to his stuffed dead sister every day.
 
2013-05-01 11:18:58 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.


just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.
 
2013-05-01 11:25:17 AM  
'just one of those crazy accidents.'
 
2013-05-01 11:29:33 AM  
When we ban guns for 5-year-olds, only criminal 5-year-olds will have guns!
 
2013-05-01 11:33:12 AM  

bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.


Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.
 
2013-05-01 11:34:03 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.


or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)
 
2013-05-01 11:40:50 AM  
Ma, come quick I accidentally instilled safety into the mind!
 
2013-05-01 11:42:28 AM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


No, an accident is 'Tommy fell out of the tree'. OK you're a parent, you told Tommy to play outside, you didn't mind that Tommy wants to climb the tree, you might have even been watching him, so maybe you blame yourself for his fall. Maybe he dies, you're definitely broken up about it, you definitely blame yourself. Still, accidents happen and you can't always be a split second from your child.

Maybe a gun accident is Tommy was for whatever reason out hunting, supervised by an adult, and accidentally shoots someone or is accidentally shot. I dunno maybe someone was mistaken for a deer. Still terrible.

A gun accident is not 'I left a working firearm in the presence of a five year old which could at any time be used to actually load a bullet into the chamber and be fired, and one of the main rules of firearms is always assume the weapon is loaded. It's obviously tragic, but more importantly, entirely preventable with proper firearm safety. This was gross negligence, not an accident. And as I said before, a five year old IMO should NEVER have access to a firearm because they are five f*cking years old. It was his firearm. It was given to him. That isn't an accident either.
 
2013-05-01 11:43:54 AM  
This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here, huge success.

It's hard to understate my satisfaction.

For the good of all of us...

(EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DEAD)

kbronsito: or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)


No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

If he's too young to understand the gravitas of a concept such as death, then he's too young to play with a bang stick.
 
2013-05-01 11:44:42 AM  
So the solution to the gun problem is better mental health services in the US but giving a gun to a kinder-gardener is A-OK?
 
2013-05-01 11:45:42 AM  
Literally a child too young to control it's bladder has a firearm and that's perfectly fine.
 
hej [recently expired TotalFark]
2013-05-01 11:46:21 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: You should see the bill from the taxidermist.


Thanks.  Now we're both going to hell.
 
2013-05-01 11:48:07 AM  

James!: How farked would that be if the parents did have the toddler stuffed and kept it in the house? Like make the older kid apologize to his stuffed dead sister every day.


Can you even do that?  I mean, get a person stuffed or have their head mounted?
 
2013-05-01 11:48:39 AM  
Complete failure of the parental system..

/where did the little fark get their hands on 22 ammo?
 
2013-05-01 11:48:48 AM  

James!: So the solution to the gun problem is better mental health services in the US but giving a gun to a kinder-gardener is A-OK?


No, even the NRA would not say that this was A-OK. It's a farking tragedy of stupid proportions. I just hope they sterilize the parents and place the kid with someone who has more farking sense.
 
2013-05-01 11:48:48 AM  
BB guns for kids under 10. That's the golden rule of guns.

A .22? What the hell were these parents thinking?

A Daisy or even an airsoft would have been just as good for a 5 year old.
 
2013-05-01 11:49:01 AM  
Future responsible gun owner.
 
2013-05-01 11:49:04 AM  
This is just a necessary sacrifice of responsible gun ownership. To NOT allow the five year old to have a gun would have been a GRAVE violation of the 2nd amendment.
 
2013-05-01 11:49:23 AM  
Yet another gun-accident article on Fark.... *yawn*
 
2013-05-01 11:49:44 AM  
It is absolutely disgusting the way gun makers manufacture weapons of destruction to children,  Absolutely shameful.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:22 AM  
Once I doused my house in gasoline and gave a 5 year old a pack of matches to play with. Long story short, just one of those crazy accidents.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:26 AM  
I really hate moron parents.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:34 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: James!: How farked would that be if the parents did have the toddler stuffed and kept it in the house? Like make the older kid apologize to his stuffed dead sister every day.

Can you even do that?  I mean, get a person stuffed or have their head mounted?


I think it's legal.  You can burn it, you can bury it, you can shoot it up into space.  May as well be able to stuff it.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:39 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: A .22? What the hell were these parents thinking?


I dunno. You should ask  dirtybopper. He's actually defending this act.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:49 AM  

James!: So the solution to the gun problem is better mental health services in the US but giving a gun to a kinder-gardener is A-OK?


I blame video games.  If not for violent, hyper-realistic video games like Big Bird Teaches Typing, this kid never would have committed this atrocious but totally unforeseeable act.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:50 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: James!: How farked would that be if the parents did have the toddler stuffed and kept it in the house? Like make the older kid apologize to his stuffed dead sister every day.

Can you even do that?  I mean, get a person stuffed or have their head mounted?


Can't think of any reason you couldn't. You can get your miscarried child mounted in a "memory box", so I can imagine having a kid taxidermied would be possible.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:53 AM  
Parent(s) should be charged with manslaughter.
 
2013-05-01 11:50:55 AM  

kbronsito: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)


I'm not certain that can be taught to every five year old.  What you do instead is keep your firearms in a gun safe, and keep the combination a closely guarded secret.
 
2013-05-01 11:51:01 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: No, even the NRA would not say that this was A-OK. It's a farking tragedy of stupid proportions. I just hope they sterilize the parents and place the kid with someone who has more farking sense.


Really?  They've consistently opposed all forms of storage laws, they've come out against criminal charges for firearms "accidents" of this nature in the past.
 
2013-05-01 11:51:02 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: You should see the bill from the taxidermist.


You're attempts to divert and evade from this tragedy is noted.  Sad and idiotic as they are.
 
2013-05-01 11:51:07 AM  
These parents get to keep both their firearms and children.  That's part of a healthy society, right?
 
2013-05-01 11:51:13 AM  
The 5 year-old had a clean record.  Background checks wouldn't have prevented this.
 
2013-05-01 11:51:29 AM  

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: A .22? What the hell were these parents thinking?

I dunno. You should ask  dirtybopper. He's actually defending this act.


Da fuq, dittybopper?
 
2013-05-01 11:51:36 AM  
Wow. I was about that age the first time I was taken shooting, but I didn't own my own until I was 12. Farking stupid people making Darwin proud.
 
2013-05-01 11:51:58 AM  
No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

Five is a very typical age to start showing a kid how to shoot.  I probably started around that age.  I could see buying them their own small-sized gun too, if you had the money.

What I think is crazy is leaving the gun around for them to play with.  Loaded or unloaded, doesn't matter, a kid that age should never touch a gun without a parent standing right there (with their hand on the gun too, or maybe inches away from it ready to keep it from pointing at anyone).
 
2013-05-01 11:52:05 AM  
Well, it's not like you could give the kid hand grenades. Their hands are too small.
 
2013-05-01 11:52:05 AM  

FlashHarry: this wouldn't have happened if the two-year-old had been carrying.


There's no defense against a My First Assault Rifle.

Would add to the WTF sentiment here.

My dad was a bit of a gun nut and he wouldn't let me near one until I was 11.

/ got a Benjamin pellet gun for X-mas...
 
2013-05-01 11:52:10 AM  
my five year old will learn to shoot eventually.

he's still mastering tooth brushing, how to tie his own shoes, wiping his ass after a dump, choosing appropriate clothes to go outside.

I put gun safety a little bit later, myself.
 
2013-05-01 11:52:28 AM  
As someone who has experienced this kind of thing (one cousin killed his brother in a hunting accident) I will say I don't find anything humorous in this story, nor any of the comments.

I grew up in a family where both sides were committed hunters.  And in this culture it was very common to see children hunting.  We did it, my brother and I hunted from an early age.

I gave it up decades ago, and I would never even think of giving my daughter a loaded weapon.  Before she died I asked my mom how they did it, and she said it was just a different time.

And all these Ted Nuget-type hunting shows say "take a kid hunting".  It's one of their major themes.
 
2013-05-01 11:52:30 AM  
came for photo of dittybopper as an infant holding a rifle

shoot my frown up side down
 
2013-05-01 11:52:56 AM  
We just need armed guards in every home to prevent this sort of thing. Why isn't Obama working with the Republicans on this common sense measure?
 
2013-05-01 11:53:00 AM  

Felgraf: This is just a necessary sacrifice of responsible gun ownership. To NOT allow the five year old to have a gun would have been a GRAVE violation of the 2nd amendment.


I'm offended his communist pinko parents gave him such a european sissy gun like a 22

Real American shoot the AR15 and its 30 round clips of .223
 
2013-05-01 11:53:12 AM  
Imagine the havoc he could gave wrought if he had been given a Kinder Surprise.
 
2013-05-01 11:53:23 AM  

PreMortem: 'just one of those crazy accidents.'


Honestly, it was wacky.
 
2013-05-01 11:53:48 AM  
Definitive proof that a gun is just another tool, like a can-opener, and needs no extra care nor concern.

/amidoinitrite?
 
2013-05-01 11:53:59 AM  
Who was the philosopher that said "There are no accidents"

Spot on here
 
2013-05-01 11:54:00 AM  

bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.


No, the problem is not that a 5 year old was holding a loaded gun.  The problem was that an adult should have been there, also holding the gun, to make sure safety is a priority.  I've seen a kid about 18 months shoot a rifle... because his father was holding it at the same time.  I think teaching kids all about firearms at a young age is good because it takes the "mystery" out of guns.  Like abstinence-only education, kids are going to get curious and experiment.  The thing is, you need to never leave a child alone with a gun, and always keep the gun inaccessible from them, until they are old enough to be responsible.
 
2013-05-01 11:54:06 AM  
Call me nutty, and lock and load your derp, gunheads, but I have to ask, are you okay with giving a farking weapon to a 5-year old?  Is there not even a minimum age for guns, or has the NRA fought this too?
 
2013-05-01 11:54:41 AM  
I don't know rules.  Did the 5 year old need a permit to own the gun and did he have one?
 
2013-05-01 11:54:56 AM  
Parental negligence.

Did not secure the weapon, did not clear the weapon, did not supervise the use, and clearly did not train the five year old on how he should handle a weapon (as if it is loaded).  I feel terrible for that five year old.  The parents should not have been allowed to breed.
 
2013-05-01 11:54:58 AM  
And all Ralphie got was a Daisy Red Rider BB gun .
 
2013-05-01 11:54:59 AM  
Kentucky's "Stand your Playground" law at work.
 
2013-05-01 11:55:11 AM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


No, see, an 'accident' implies that there is no real fault here.

Unless you feel the parents aren't at fault, and shouldn't be prosecuted in any fashion? OH WELL, THESE THINGS JUST HAPPEN I SUPPOSE, *SHRUG* should be the appropriate response?

Let alone the idea of marketing a gun like "My First Rifle", as if it were a goddamn *TOY*...
 
2013-05-01 11:55:13 AM  
My First Car yields predictable results

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10583657/ns/dateline_nbc/t/car-crash-trail -b roken-lives/

Shall we examine Statistics which is deadlier, or just flame gun owners, because that's what the new meme is?
 
2013-05-01 11:55:24 AM  

the_immoral_minority: Who was the philosopher that said "There are no accidents"

Spot on here


Bob Ross.
 
2013-05-01 11:55:25 AM  
Meh I was learning to shoot a rifle at that age. Was a tad funny because the rifle my mom was teaching me with was such that I had to brace it on the fence to shoot... I couldn't hold it by myself. I was pretty good at it other than that.
 
2013-05-01 11:55:48 AM  
Cumberland County Coroner Gary White said the family had not realized a shell was left inside the gun, which was kept in a corner of the house.

Responsible gun owners, indeed.
 
2013-05-01 11:55:51 AM  
i108.photobucket.comView Full Size

 Unavailable for comment
 
2013-05-01 11:56:17 AM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


Rarity does not make something an accident.  Marathon bombings are also pretty uncommon.  Would you consider that an accident?
 
2013-05-01 11:56:18 AM  

darth_badger: And all Ralphie got was a Daisy Red Rider BB gun .


"You'll shoot your sister's brain and eye out, kid!"
 
2013-05-01 11:56:21 AM  
I think I meant to say: "In before the boring and overplayed anti-NRA cliches..." oh well. Too late.
 
2013-05-01 11:56:29 AM  
When I'm dealing with a kid who makes the task of opening a tube of GoGurt look like the end of a porno movie, giving him a deadly firearm wouldn't be my first thought.
 
2013-05-01 11:56:29 AM  
Brilliant work stopping that tyranny before she could mature into something more dangerous to our American way of life.  This boy should get a parade and a seat on the NRA Board of Directors.

The important thing is that this five year old's Second Amendment rights (bestowed in love from Jesus himself) weren't infringed upon by some lackwitted, goosestepping Obamanaut
 
2013-05-01 11:56:31 AM  
If you give a .22 to a 5 year old then you have mental problems. I don't know how else to say it.

No one's going to jail for this, are they? They kept a loaded .22 leaning in the corner of the living room and they're going to be allowed to just keep on screwing up this 5 year olds life for the next 13 years.
 
2013-05-01 11:56:34 AM  

Itstoearly: No, the problem is not that a 5 year old was holding a loaded gun.


No, the problem is that a 5 year old, who thinks DEATH IS REVERSIBLE, was given a loaded weapon and taught to play with it, and then given access to ammunition while being allowed to treat an unloaded weapon as a toy.

Itstoearly: The problem was that an adult should have been there, also holding the gun, to make sure safety is a priority.  I've seen a kid about 18 months shoot a rifle... because his father was holding it at the same time.


Hey, I too can present totally different situations than what happened here and argue from them.

Itstoearly: Like abstinence-only education, kids are going to get curious and experiment.  The thing is, you need to never leave a child alone with a gun, and always keep the gun inaccessible from them, until they are old enough to be responsible.


The only thing you should be teaching a kid to do with a gun that is not in the hands of a responsible adult at the age of five years old is to tell an adult and stay the fark away from them.
 
2013-05-01 11:57:02 AM  

radarlove: When we ban guns for 5-year-olds, only criminal 5-year-olds will have guns!


Just ban 5-year olds!
 
2013-05-01 11:57:11 AM  
Responsible gun owners are responsible.
 
2013-05-01 11:57:18 AM  
Did anyone read the thing?  The kid was 4 when they gave him the gun!!!!  FTFA "The Lexington Herald-Leader reports the weapon - a Crickett branded by makers Keystone Sporting Arms as "My First Rifle" - was given to the boy last year."

WTF!  Charge those parents with criminally negligent manslaughter.
 
2013-05-01 11:57:19 AM  

dittybopper: Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.


Being uncommon makes it an accident?

Only three people have been killed by bombs during the entire history of the Boston Marathon, so I guess that was "one of those crazy accidents."
 
2013-05-01 11:57:21 AM  
Itstoearly:
I think teaching kids all about firearms at a young age is good because it takes the "mystery" out of guns.  Like abstinence-only education, kids are

Oh man, I remember when I was a dumb 14 year old, me and the girl next door sneaked into her parent's shed and totally shot each other with her dad's hunting rifle. Man, to be young again!
 
2013-05-01 11:57:25 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: My First Car yields predictable results

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10583657/ns/dateline_nbc/t/car-crash-trail -b roken-lives/

Shall we examine Statistics which is deadlier, or just flame gun owners, because that's what the new meme is?


Was the driver 5 years old?
 
2013-05-01 11:57:25 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: My First Car yields predictable results

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10583657/ns/dateline_nbc/t/car-crash-trail -b roken-lives/

Shall we examine Statistics which is deadlier, or just flame gun owners, because that's what the new meme is?


Generally cars are not marketed to five year olds, and I can think of no states where it is legal to attempt to teach your five year old to drive.

Again, please take a look at the rifle in the story. It's selling a farking *gun* as, well, a toy.

You don't see anything wrong with this?

Anything at all?
 
2013-05-01 11:57:43 AM  
My 12 year old daughter has this exact same type of rifle, it has an internal lock that keeps the bolt from closing, and it stays locked and in my closet when we are not going out shooting. We also didn't give it to her until she was 11 and demonstrated she knew proper gun safety and she had a certain level of maturity to know the rifle is not a toy.
 
2013-05-01 11:57:51 AM  
Oh yay.  This thread again (again, and again, and again...).
 
2013-05-01 11:58:04 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: My First Car yields predictable results

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10583657/ns/dateline_nbc/t/car-crash-trail -b roken-lives/

Shall we examine Statistics which is deadlier, or just flame gun owners, because that's what the new meme is?


Funny how no one is saying ban guns, only attacking the irresponsibility and negligence of a parent.

But hey, that's just because we watched Sesame Street as a kid and learned how to tell "One of these things is not like the other", and not Bernie's Right Wing Christian Hate Fest on TBN.
 
2013-05-01 11:58:06 AM  
FTFA: Promotional material on KSA's website says the gun aims to "instill safety in the minds of youth shooters."

Cumberland County Coroner Gary White said the family had not realized a shell was left inside the gun, which was kept in a corner of the house.


Of course what it doesn't state is it instills safety in the minds of youth shooters via negative reinforcement by learning the hard way what not to do. Parents too.
 
2013-05-01 11:58:24 AM  
The important thing to remember is that further infringement of our second amendment rights would not have prevented this from happening.
 
2013-05-01 11:58:24 AM  
dittybopper:
/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.


That sounds like socialism to me.  Why do you hate the 2nd Amendment?
 
2013-05-01 11:58:41 AM  

hardinparamedic: This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here, huge success.

It's hard to understate my satisfaction.

For the good of all of us...

(EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DEAD)

kbronsito: or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)

No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

If he's too young to understand the gravitas of a concept such as death, then he's too young to play with a bang stick.


Bull.  5 years is old enough to teach how to properly handle a gun.  Not that I would ever trust one alone with one without adult supervision, but a five year old certainly has the mental capacity to learn "Don't point at people or animals, don't hold the trigger unless you are aiming at the paper target, assume there is always a bullet in the gun"
 
2013-05-01 11:58:48 AM  
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STEAL MY JELLO.
 
2013-05-01 11:59:08 AM  

Itstoearly: No, the problem is not that a 5 year old was holding a loaded gun.  The problem was that an adult should have been there, also holding the gun, to make sure safety is a priority.  I've seen a kid about 18 months shoot a rifle... because his father was holding it at the same time.  I think teaching kids all about firearms at a young age is good because it takes the "mystery" out of guns.  Like abstinence-only education, kids are going to get curious and experiment.  The thing is, you need to never leave a child alone with a gun, and always keep the gun inaccessible from them, until they are old enough to be responsible.


Not a fan of guns myself, but I concur.
 
2013-05-01 11:59:29 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: kbronsito: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)

I'm not certain that can be taught to every five year old.  What you do instead is keep your firearms in a gun safe, and keep the combination a closely guarded secret.


you should still do the gun safe thing too... but teaching him not to point the gun at humans is a nice built in redundancy in the system. And the kid was supposed to learn that rule eventually anyways. My uncle gave some sort of bb gun to his grandson (age 6) and told him the no pointing rule. A couple of days later, the kid pointed it at him anyways but then pointed it away quicly in a typical attempt to test his boundaries. He lost the gun for some time and got a time out also.
 
2013-05-01 11:59:43 AM  

Yogimus: Complete failure of the parental system..

/where did the little fark get their hands on 22 ammo?


There was a live round left in the chamber ftfa.
 
2013-05-01 11:59:45 AM  
i39.tinypic.comView Full Size
 
2013-05-01 12:00:13 PM  
What a crazy accident!  Just crazy I tells ya!
 
2013-05-01 12:00:43 PM  

doyner: The 5 year-old had a clean record.  Background checks wouldn't have prevented this.


They may, however, have prevented his dumbass parents from purchasing it.

/speculating obviously
//but so is assuming this trigger-happy 5-year-old had a clean record
 
2013-05-01 12:01:31 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: What a crazy accident!  Just crazy I tells ya!


Couldn't have been prevented, no sir!  It was like God wanted that kid to murder that baby.
 
2013-05-01 12:01:34 PM  

James!: So the solution to the gun problem is better mental health services in the US but giving a gun to a kinder-gardener is A-OK?


If we had better mental health services, the parents would likely have been flagged.
 
2013-05-01 12:01:37 PM  
They'll try the kid as an an adult and toss him into the general population at Rikers island.
 
2013-05-01 12:01:37 PM  

Itstoearly: Bull.  5 years is old enough to teach how to properly handle a gun.


A child at five years of age does not understand the gravity or concept of Death. Unless you are teaching your child that it is okay to use that rifle when Dad, Mom, or Grandparents are with you and with their permission, and to not touch the thing otherwise, you are failing as a parent. In TFA, the gun being used was marketed  as a farking toy.Not as a weapon that could maim or kill another person.

Itstoearly: Not that I would ever trust one alone with one without adult supervision, but a five year old certainly has the mental capacity to learn "Don't point at people or animals, don't hold the trigger unless you are aiming at the paper target, assume there is always a bullet in the gun"


And guess what happened here.
 
2013-05-01 12:01:39 PM  

Itstoearly


No, the problem is not that a 5 year old was holding a loaded gun.


THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM.

Unload the firearm: no accident. Lock up the firearm: no accident.


The problem was that an adult should have been there, also holding the gun, to make sure safety is a priority. I've seen a kid about 18 months shoot a rifle... because his father was holding it at the same time.


There is no set of circumstances under which it would be okay for a child to handle a loaded firearm in a dwelling.
 
2013-05-01 12:01:53 PM  

ristst: And all these Ted Nuget-type hunting shows say "take a kid hunting".  It's one of their major themes.


If you look at the statistics gun makers have to push this, since many fewer kids are hunting than they used to.  If you don't get people started on guns early they tend not to buy them later.  It's also the reason they are so protective of the various "military weapons" like the AR15- most of their profit is there since the hunting market is declining.  (Plus most hunters I know don't own arsenals- they typically have 2-3 rifles in different calibers, not the loaded gun safes you see posted here from time to time)
 
2013-05-01 12:02:01 PM  
Shut up and buy more guns ya pussys.
 
2013-05-01 12:02:23 PM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


Only 41 kids dead?  Oh, then no problem.  Lets keep kids and guns together.

Or maybe....ZERO kids dead might be a better idea??

Like it would RUIN someone's life if they didn't touch a gun til they are 21?  Seriously??
 
2013-05-01 12:02:41 PM  
csb time:
When my brother was around 13 and I was 10, we were home alone and he got the bright idea to take my Dad's double barrell shotgun and wait until I can around the corner and jerk it closed to scare me - long story short both barrell's blew a hole in the wall right above my head.  I almost became a statistic that day.

/couldn't hear out of my right ear for a while
//required a change of underwear
 
2013-05-01 12:02:41 PM  
Darwin awards.
 
2013-05-01 12:03:10 PM  
More guns for morons! Let Darwin sort this out.
 
2013-05-01 12:03:12 PM  

pseudoscience: doyner: The 5 year-old had a clean record.  Background checks wouldn't have prevented this.

They may, however, have prevented his dumbass parents from purchasing it.

/speculating obviously
//but so is assuming this trigger-happy 5-year-old had a clean record


Your sarcasm detector needs to be calibrated.
 
2013-05-01 12:03:24 PM  
Maybe it's because I live in "Commie" California, but aren't you required to keep guns secured in a house with kids? I know I do, but maybe that's just the COMMON farkING SENSE in me!

Stupid parents a re stupid. I got a BB gun when i was about 10 and didn't get anything more powerful until I was 16, and that was a .22. Then a 12 gauge for hunting at 17. Had to take the Hunter Safety course and did get training from my parents on how to be careful. Guns were never left loaded and were kept away from little kids, even WAY back in those days
 
2013-05-01 12:03:40 PM  
I don't know about that brand, but I've seen similar guns. They only hold a single shell, and they come with a trigger lock that requires a key to remove. They're not intended to be left in the hands of a child. They're meant to be locked away in a cabinet, with the trigger lock attached, and the single shell removed.

The parent did none of those things and should be charged with whatever form of criminal homicide is applicable.
 
2013-05-01 12:03:57 PM  
Terrible parenting fail.

I can't help but think these people should lose their kids or their weapons. Their choice.
 
2013-05-01 12:04:09 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: If you don't get people started on guns early they tend not to buy them later.  It's also the reason they are so protective of the various "military weapons" like the AR15- most of their profit is there since the hunting market is declining.  (Plus most hunters I know don't own arsenals- they typically have 2-3 rifles in different calibers, not the loaded gun safes you see posted here from time to time)


If you're in North America, and (with the exception of bear) you can't kill it with a 30-06, you probably shouldn't be hunting.

Damn newfangled kiddies and their 7mm Remingtons.
 
2013-05-01 12:04:14 PM  
Don't blame the gun; blame the parents and the one who pulled the trigger.
 
2013-05-01 12:04:17 PM  

hardinparamedic: A child at five years of age does not understand the gravity or concept of Death.


THIS. If you tell a child at that age that someone is dead, they will assume it's akin to sleep, and that they will wake up, or that they've left temporarily and will be back. That concept doesn't start to sink in until about a year later, development-wise.
 
2013-05-01 12:05:27 PM  
Bullshiat; I understood death at 5; its all on the shoulders of parenting.
 
2013-05-01 12:05:39 PM  

ristst: As someone who has experienced this kind of thing (one cousin killed his brother in a hunting accident) I will say I don't find anything humorous in this story, nor any of the comments.

I grew up in a family where both sides were committed hunters.  And in this culture it was very common to see children hunting.  We did it, my brother and I hunted from an early age.

I gave it up decades ago, and I would never even think of giving my daughter a loaded weapon.  Before she died I asked my mom how they did it, and she said it was just a different time.

And all these Ted Nuget-type hunting shows say "take a kid hunting".  It's one of their major themes.


Wait, don't you know that there are "phantom statistics" of thwarted home break-ins, that have never been tabulated because "people don't report attempted crimes to the police", that categorically PROVE that you are safer if you keep loaded guns in your home? Don't you care about your family's SAFETY, you heartless, gutless, liberal coward??
 
2013-05-01 12:05:47 PM  
Promotional material on KSA's website says the gun aims to "instill safety in the minds of youth shooters."

Cumberland County Coroner Gary White said the family had not realized a shell was left inside the gun, which was kept in a corner of the house.


Conclusion: "If your grandparents had bought one for me when I was your age, your sister would still be alive."
 
2013-05-01 12:06:08 PM  
The tree of Freedom is watered with the blood of innocents.
 
2013-05-01 12:06:31 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: BB guns for kids under 10. That's the golden rule of guns.

A .22? What the hell were these parents thinking?

A Daisy or even an airsoft would have been just as good for a 5 year old.


Tell that to my cousin who has spent his whole life wearing a glass eye because of a kid with a bb gun.
 
2013-05-01 12:06:48 PM  

graeth: Bullshiat; I understood death at 5; its all on the shoulders of parenting.


Well, I'm glad your anecdotal claim as an adult invalidates decades of psychiatric and developmental psychology research on the subject.

Good thing we had you come into this thread to clear that up.
 
2013-05-01 12:06:53 PM  

doyner: pseudoscience: doyner: The 5 year-old had a clean record.  Background checks wouldn't have prevented this.

They may, however, have prevented his dumbass parents from purchasing it.

/speculating obviously
//but so is assuming this trigger-happy 5-year-old had a clean record

Your sarcasm detector needs to be calibrated.


Time for another cup of coffee.
 
2013-05-01 12:07:02 PM  

nmiguy: Darwin awards.


Except it was a 2 year old that died.  Darwin Award would have been appropriate if the kid shot his idiot guardian that left the gun loaded.
 
2013-05-01 12:07:23 PM  

graeth: Bullshiat; I understood death at 5; its all on the shoulders of parenting.


No, it's on the shoulders of normal variation; countless research projects including interviews with thousands have children have demonstrated it time and time again. You apparently bucked the curve.
 
2013-05-01 12:07:29 PM  
Thank goodness guns are a guaranteed right to every idiot who wants one. This is just the price we pay I guess.
 
2013-05-01 12:07:35 PM  

dittybopper: ///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


Did you let him play with it alone?

chickenhead.comView Full Size
 
2013-05-01 12:07:39 PM  
I don't really believe the details of the incident -

1) A family obviously familiar with guns "accidentally" leaves it loaded?
2) The single shot fired while the boy was "playing with" the rifle just happened to hit and kill his sister?

I have the nasty suspicion that the kid aimed it at his sister and pulled the trigger - just like the cool guys do on TV.
 
2013-05-01 12:07:51 PM  
Again, please take a look at the rifle in the story. It's selling a farking *gun* as, well, a toy.

You don't see anything wrong with this?

Anything at all?


I just checked the Crickett site.
This page is kind of disturbing really  http://www.crickett.com/crickett_kidscorner.php
 
2013-05-01 12:07:58 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Itstoearly

No, the problem is not that a 5 year old was holding a loaded gun.


THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM.

Unload the firearm: no accident. Lock up the firearm: no accident.


The problem was that an adult should have been there, also holding the gun, to make sure safety is a priority. I've seen a kid about 18 months shoot a rifle... because his father was holding it at the same time.


There is no set of circumstances under which it would be okay for a child to handle a loaded firearm in a dwelling.


I don't think you understood my post, because we're pretty much in agreement.
 
2013-05-01 12:08:36 PM  

ScaryBottles: The important thing to remember is that further infringement of our second amendment rights would not have prevented this from happening.



Are you currently prohibited from owning a firearm?
 
2013-05-01 12:09:04 PM  

Githerax: The tree of Freedom is watered with the blood of innocents.


Well, then, we ought to be just about up to our ass in freedom trees right about now.
What's that you say? We're not?
Oh well.
 
2013-05-01 12:09:07 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: You should see the bill from the taxidermist.


OMG is that Caroline?
Nope, Chuck Testa!
 
2013-05-01 12:09:15 PM  

crzybtch: dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.

Only 41 kids dead?  Oh, then no problem.  Lets keep kids and guns together.

Or maybe....ZERO kids dead might be a better idea??

Like it would RUIN someone's life if they didn't touch a gun til they are 21?  Seriously??


Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.
 
2013-05-01 12:09:18 PM  
Hey, already got that "My First Manslaughter" out of the way too.  Making progress kid.
 
2013-05-01 12:09:33 PM  

buckler: hardinparamedic: A child at five years of age does not understand the gravity or concept of Death.

THIS. If you tell a child at that age that someone is dead, they will assume it's akin to sleep, and that they will wake up, or that they've left temporarily and will be back. That concept doesn't start to sink in until about a year later, development-wise.


Well that and 5 year olds are still in the "I'm going to do this even though I've been told not to, to assert my independence" phase.

Plus, what the flying fark is the big rush? Why does junior have to be allowed to shoot a gun at 5? Wait 3 or 4 goddamn years at least for farks sake! Wait until they at least have somewhat fully developed logic and reasoning?
 
2013-05-01 12:09:36 PM  
Who the hell gives a .22 rifle to a 5 year old?
 
2013-05-01 12:09:41 PM  
Gotta admit, though... it IS a pretty good litmus test of someone's parenting skills.
 
2013-05-01 12:09:59 PM  

hardinparamedic: graeth: Bullshiat; I understood death at 5; its all on the shoulders of parenting.

Well, I'm glad your anecdotal claim as an adult invalidates decades of psychiatric and developmental psychology research on the subject.

Good thing we had you come into this thread to clear that up.


Well, it's a good bet the kid understands death NOW, isn't it?
 
2013-05-01 12:09:59 PM  

Itstoearly: No, the problem is not that a 5 year old was holding a loaded gun.  The problem was that an adult should have been there, also holding the gun, to make sure safety is a priority.  I've seen a kid about 18 months shoot a rifle... because his father was holding it at the same time.  I think teaching kids all about firearms at a young age is good because it takes the "mystery" out of guns.  Like abstinence-only education, kids are going to get curious and experiment.  The thing is, you need to never leave a child alone with a gun, and always keep the gun inaccessible from them, until they are old enough to be responsible.


So you think that it's ok that an 18month old baby is allowed to be part of a gun firing?  If they are scared to hell by the loud sound and maybe rupture an ear drum do you really want them to think it's a toy?  That parent should have been told to leave the range if he was at one.  There are acceptable age ranges for some activities anyone under 6 should never have a loaded weapon.
 
2013-05-01 12:10:15 PM  

Pista: Again, please take a look at the rifle in the story. It's selling a farking *gun* as, well, a toy.

You don't see anything wrong with this?

Anything at all?

I just checked the Crickett site.
This page is kind of disturbing really  http://www.crickett.com/crickett_kidscorner.php


And the image names are the full names of the kids.  Spectacufail.
 
2013-05-01 12:10:41 PM  

Itstoearly: I don't think you understood my post, because we're pretty much in agreement.


I think you ignored the fact that, in reality, the parents were letting the child play with the damn thing as if it were a toy when they weren't shooting. It just happened to be that this time they left a round in the chamber.

Boom. Headshot.

tf2wiki.netView Full Size
 
2013-05-01 12:10:57 PM  

Citrate1007: Parent(s) should be charged with manslaughter.


This, or at least gross negligence.

PS - yes, you can embalm people (I don't think you stuff them), Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il are both embalmed.
 
2013-05-01 12:11:13 PM  
Giving a five-year-old a gun isn't in itself a problem.  I used to plink cans and such with a .22 all the time with my father when I was a wee child.  Skeet with a small-gauge shotgun, too.  When not actually doing something with the firearms in question they were locked away in a safe that only my parents had the combo to, and I was further instructed not to fark with 'em without my mother or father even if one happened to not be in the safe.

Giving a five-year-old a gun, then leaving him alone with it loaded and no adult supervision, though, that's... essentially manslaughter.  I really think the parents in this case should be facing jail time, this is pretty much the definition of deadly criminal negligence.

//Pretty sure that intentionally giving a minor unsupervised access to a firearm is a felony almost everywhere even if no one's hurt, is KY an exception?  Being "at home" isn't usually sufficient, you have to actually be supervising.  Even storing the gun "in a corner" instead of secured in a domicile with children is a class-b at minimum most places.  I'm.. really not sure how they're getting away with this, or why social services is letting them keep the kid.
 
2013-05-01 12:11:13 PM  
I'm not saying ban guns.  And accidents will happen, and bad guys will kill people.  But is it a mental health issue if you leave your 5 year old alone with your 2 year old while he has a loaded gun?  Or are you bored?  Fatally stupid?  5 year olds can shoot, sure, not a big problem with that.  But to leave him alone with a gun?  I just...I mean...

Basically, I want responsible people to have guns.  Be they good or bad in spirit, at least I know they meant it if they kill me.
 
2013-05-01 12:11:30 PM  
Maybe the safety failed, children's weapons are often not manufactured to the same rigorous quality standards as the real thing...hell, two of the Hello Kitty hand grenades I bought last week went off in the car on the way home...
 
2013-05-01 12:12:19 PM  

Yogimus: Gotta admit, though... it IS a pretty good litmus test of someone's parenting skills.


You can only buy a gun for your kid if you're a good parent, but only a bad parent would want to buy a gun for their kid.

A real "Catch .22".
 
2013-05-01 12:12:37 PM  
Keeping a loaded gun in a corner? Sounds like a Real American to me. Why do people hate True Patriots?
 
2013-05-01 12:12:43 PM  

graeth: Don't blame the gun; blame the parents and the one who pulled the trigger.


Thankfully, 5-year olds typically have the cognitive ability to discern the future consequences of present actions, so we can prosecute him in court.
 
2013-05-01 12:12:44 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Maybe the safety failed, children's weapons are often not manufactured to the same rigorous quality standards as the real thing...hell, two of the Hello Kitty hand grenades I bought last week went off in the car on the way home...


So that's why you're not allowed within 100 foot of schools anymore, and had to go door to door to inform people you were living there?
 
2013-05-01 12:12:52 PM  

James!: Wait wait wait, I have another.  When will Obama call this a terrorist act?


This is Obama's Benghazi.
 
2013-05-01 12:12:59 PM  
They shouldn't be giving 2 year olds skittles...
 
2013-05-01 12:13:01 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Maybe the safety failed, children's weapons are often not manufactured to the same rigorous quality standards as the real thing...hell, two of the Hello Kitty hand grenades I bought last week went off in the car on the way home...


and the ammo jumped into the chamber.
 
2013-05-01 12:13:41 PM  

bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.


I gave my kids weapons at that age. The differences:

It was only ever out of the case at the range (or for cleaning, but that I did alone for several years)

I held all the ammo, and only loaded it shortly before firing (and I mean RIGHT before firing)

The child was taught it was a WEAPON THAT KILLS and to NEVER point it at anything other than the target AT THE RANGE.

The weapon was kept locked in a locked case (in a locked safe) with the bolt removed. The bolt was locked (along with my other rifle bolts) in a separate lockbox. Finally the ammo was in a different locked room, each caliber in their own lock boxes.

We didn't take chances. My elders didn't take chances with us either. From pellet rifles to bows to firearms, it was relentlessly drilled into us that they kill whatever they are aimed at so don't point it at anyone EVER.
 
2013-05-01 12:13:59 PM  
I've learned two things form conservatives on Fark today:

15-year-olds are too young to be trusted with birth control.

And

5-year-olds are adult enough to be trusted with guns.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:27 PM  
I blame the movie "Natural Born Killers," and violent video games for this.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:52 PM  

hardinparamedic: Loaf's Tray: Maybe the safety failed, children's weapons are often not manufactured to the same rigorous quality standards as the real thing...hell, two of the Hello Kitty hand grenades I bought last week went off in the car on the way home...

So that's why you're not allowed within 100 foot of schools anymore, and had to go door to door to inform people you were living there?


Surprisingly that had nothing to do with it...
 
2013-05-01 12:14:59 PM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


41 dead kids is no big deal. Really come on guys, accidents happen.

You have some seriously farked up logic dude.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:59 PM  

A_Listless_Wanderer: 15-year-olds are too young to be trusted with birth contro

l

If you read that thread, you should have also learned that women are all filthy whores who seek to victimize men.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:05 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.


Yeah, I think we've had enough discussions about gun lawsas such. Maybe we need to have a discussion about our attitudes about guns. About how much we like them, and how much misplaced faith we place in them. Of course, that would be hard, and ranting against gun laws is easy, and we are an intellectually lazy people - so that probably won't happen.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:24 PM  

Itstoearly: hardinparamedic: This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here, huge success.

It's hard to understate my satisfaction.

For the good of all of us...

(EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DEAD)

kbronsito: or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)

No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

If he's too young to understand the gravitas of a concept such as death, then he's too young to play with a bang stick.

Bull.  5 years is old enough to teach how to properly handle a gun.  Not that I would ever trust one alone with one without adult supervision, but a five year old certainly has the mental capacity to learn "Don't point at people or animals, don't hold the trigger unless you are aiming at the paper target, assume there is always a bullet in the gun"


You are crazy!  Having worked with 5 year olds, I can tell you that they regularly do things they are told not to do.  And they have no real concept of death or permanent injury.  Anyone who thinks a five year old is old enough to have a gun is seriously delusional!
 
2013-05-01 12:15:31 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.comView Full Size

 
2013-05-01 12:15:31 PM  

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: A .22? What the hell were these parents thinking?

I dunno. You should ask  dirtybopper. He's actually defending this act.


A LOT of kids in/around that age used to be given their own firearm.  Many still are today.

It's not act of giving a kid their first firearm, it's the fact they very obviously didn't educate their kid properly, nor did they adequately gauge that kid's ability to responsibly handle one.

We don't know exactly how this firearm was stored either.

Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?
 
2013-05-01 12:15:44 PM  

tricycleracer: You can only buy a gun for your kid if you're a good parent, but only a bad parent would want to buy a gun for their kid.

A real "Catch .22".


Well, no. I can comprehend teaching a child about guns. Even at 5. As others in this thread who are *sane* have said, you make sure it is always in the gun safe when you are not physically there.

However, if I were to buy my hypothetical future five-year-old a weapon to learn how to use guns and how to treat them properly (.. something i do not intend to do, but I am engaging in hypotheticals here...)

I do not think I would purchase them a "My First Rifle" that is DESIGNED to look like a toy and have nice, pretty colors.

Since that ENTIRELY UNDERMINES THE LESSON that GUNS ARE NOT F*CKING TOYS.

/Not shouting at you, just gobsmacked by the stupidity of such a product.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:55 PM  

FlashHarry: this wouldn't have happened if the two-year-old had been carrying.


And why wasn't the Mom packing an equalizer? She should have protected her little daughter from violent attacks from her siblings. Give Mom a hog leg now!
 
2013-05-01 12:16:22 PM  
Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.
 
2013-05-01 12:16:33 PM  

sammyk: 41 dead kids is no big deal. Really come on guys, accidents happen.

You have some seriously farked up logic dude.


You have to understand the mentality.

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2013-05-01 12:16:45 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.


And the number would be what without those laws? Higher, maybe? Your position that we should do nothing because current laws are not 100% effective is, well, stupid.
 
2013-05-01 12:16:45 PM  

Felgraf: et alone the idea of marketing a gun like "My First Rifle", as if it were a goddamn *TOY*...


Who cares how they market it?  Gun stores don't sell rifles to 5 year olds. They sell them to adults, for whom all responsibility lies.
 
2013-05-01 12:16:51 PM  

GiantRex: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 223x226]


Oh god. Wrong thread. REALLY wrong thread...
 
2013-05-01 12:17:20 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: There is no set of circumstances under which it would be okay for a child to handle a loaded firearm in a dwelling.


What if the dwelling is being broken into?
 
2013-05-01 12:17:37 PM  

Itstoearly


I don't think you understood my post, because we're pretty much in agreement.


I think we sort of agree. Where we diverge is that I do not agree that having the adult also holding on to the loaded firearm in this situation would have made it okay.

It might have prevented the other child from dying if the adult had controlled the muzzle direction, but it still could have resulted in a negligent discharge indoors.
 
2013-05-01 12:17:57 PM  

inglixthemad: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

I gave my kids weapons at that age. The differences:

It was only ever out of the case at the range (or for cleaning, but that I did alone for several years)

I held all the ammo, and only loaded it shortly before firing (and I mean RIGHT before firing)

The child was taught it was a WEAPON THAT KILLS and to NEVER point it at anything other than the target AT THE RANGE.

The weapon was kept locked in a locked case (in a locked safe) with the bolt removed. The bolt was locked (along with my other rifle bolts) in a separate lockbox. Finally the ammo was in a different locked room, each caliber in their own lock boxes.

We didn't take chances. My elders didn't take chances with us either. From pellet rifles to bows to firearms, it was relentlessly drilled into us that they kill whatever they are aimed at so don't point it at anyone EVER.


I also suspect the gun you used/trained your kid on wasn't painted bright and pretty colors, and you taught your children that guns are not toys.
 
2013-05-01 12:17:58 PM  
I'm not sure how we evolved from making sure toy guns in no way look like real guns, but it's OK to make real guns look like toys.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:03 PM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


god damn, dude. have you no heart? have you no soul?

you cant even sack up for this one and say, "this was wrong and bad", but you have to pretend it's a-ok, just a thing that happens, oh welp?

take a step back, go look your kids in the eyes, do what ever you have to do, but Christ, try and have human feeling once in a while, huh? a five year old just killed his baby sibling on accident, for no earthly reason.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:15 PM  

Itstoearly: hardinparamedic: This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here, huge success.

It's hard to understate my satisfaction.

For the good of all of us...

(EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DEAD)

kbronsito: or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)

No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

If he's too young to understand the gravitas of a concept such as death, then he's too young to play with a bang stick.

Bull.  5 years is old enough to teach how to properly handle a gun.  Not that I would ever trust one alone with one without adult supervision, but a five year old certainly has the mental capacity to learn "Don't point at people or animals, don't hold the trigger unless you are aiming at the paper target, assume there is always a bullet in the gun"


No Bull. Have a look here at the emotional development of a five year old. They have not yet learned the concept of death. They cannot yet view the world from another's point of view. They do not understand ethical or moral values.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:23 PM  
as a lexingtonian and this was just covered on the noon news, getting a kick ... etcetera etcetera.
 
2013-05-01 12:18:33 PM  

crzybtch: Only 41 kids dead? Oh, then no problem. Lets keep kids and guns together.

Or maybe....ZERO kids dead might be a better idea??

Like it would RUIN someone's life if they didn't touch a gun til they are 21? Seriously??


ZERO is a good number.  Like it would seriously RUIN someone's life if they didn't ride in or drive a car until they are 21?  Seriously??
 
2013-05-01 12:18:50 PM  

GiantRex: GiantRex: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 223x226]

Oh god. Wrong thread. REALLY wrong thread...


Are you looking for the "My First Troll Thread?"
 
2013-05-01 12:18:55 PM  
Terribly sad.
I'm sick of debating the merits of guns (and lack thereof).

Just sad.
 
2013-05-01 12:19:05 PM  

pippi longstocking: Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.


As we become a more crowded, urbanized, civilized society that will happen - but not in our lifetimes, not in America.
 
2013-05-01 12:19:22 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size


I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.
 
2013-05-01 12:19:40 PM  
This was one of the photos on the now-removed Crickett Firearms Facebook page (Cached copy at  http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-nZxrouLuZQJ:www . facebook.com/pages/Crickett-Firearms-My-First-Rifle/312272590517%3Fsk% 3Dphotos+&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Somehow, I think childproofing the gun is probably the better way to go.

drydocksports.comView Full Size
 
2013-05-01 12:19:43 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: You can get your miscarried child mounted in a "memory box"


I'll have you know it's called a dead babyquarium.
 
2013-05-01 12:20:39 PM  
I received my first rifle, a .22, for my 6th birthday. Many of my friends got the same thing.  The chief difference is that my parents and grandparents weren't idiots about it.  As were the parents of my friends.
 
2013-05-01 12:20:49 PM  
Darwin shoots... and scores. The crowd goes wild!!!
 
2013-05-01 12:21:28 PM  

pedrop357: Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?


Riding in cars (passive occupant) is the same as someone actively using a weapon?  I don't understand your logic.
 
2013-05-01 12:21:48 PM  

pippi longstocking: Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.


2/10
 
2013-05-01 12:22:18 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: crzybtch: dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.

Only 41 kids dead?  Oh, then no problem.  Lets keep kids and guns together.

Or maybe....ZERO kids dead might be a better idea??

Like it would RUIN someone's life if they didn't touch a gun til they are 21?  Seriously??

Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.


Well then lets give every 5 year old a bottle of Jack and a rifle, that ought to solve the problem!
 
2013-05-01 12:22:37 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.


Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:16 PM  

darth_badger: And all Ralphie got was a Daisy Red Rider BB gun .


Ralphie wasn't 5.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:39 PM  

crzybtch: Having worked with 5 year olds, I can tell you that they regularly do things they are told not to do.


Sure, when you're not paying attention to them.  When you're actively watching them, which you should be doing if you're taking them shooting, they'll generally do whatever an adult tells them to do, since the attention itself is a reward for obedience.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:51 PM  

pedrop357: pippi longstocking: Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.

2/10


Actually, he/she's correct. You have a constitutional right to gun ownership (with certain restrictions). You do not have a constitutional right to a driver's license, only to the freedom of travel. Driving is a privilege that the state deemed legally restrictable based on the potential harm a 2 ton missile could do traveling at 55 miles an hour.
 
2013-05-01 12:23:52 PM  

noitsnot: I don't really believe the details of the incident -

1) A family obviously familiar with guns "accidentally" leaves it loaded?
2) The single shot fired while the boy was "playing with" the rifle just happened to hit and kill his sister?

I have the nasty suspicion that the kid aimed it at his sister and pulled the trigger - just like the cool guys do on TV.


Eh.  Never put down to malice what can also be explained by stupidity.

There's a LOT of gun "enthusiasts" / nuts who don't know dick about basic gun safety.  All they know is they like the loud noises and booms and etc.
 
2013-05-01 12:24:07 PM  

tricycleracer: Yogimus: Gotta admit, though... it IS a pretty good litmus test of someone's parenting skills.

You can only buy a gun for your kid if you're a good parent, but only a bad parent would want to buy a gun for their kid.

A real "Catch .22".


See, here is the trouble: Folks actually assume that the act of purchasing equates to parenting.
 
2013-05-01 12:24:30 PM  

pedrop357: Felgraf: et alone the idea of marketing a gun like "My First Rifle", as if it were a goddamn *TOY*...

Who cares how they market it?  Gun stores don't sell rifles to 5 year olds. They sell them to adults, for whom all responsibility lies.


NAh, the adults don't have responsibility. After all, Dittybopper has assured us that this is just 'an accident'.

And if they're not charging the adults in this scenario with a crime, well, I guess no one's being held responsible, are they?
 
2013-05-01 12:25:02 PM  
'The county coroner local hick has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

hicks + no education + guns = funeral party

losers
 
2013-05-01 12:25:13 PM  

pedrop357: Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


Tell me how a gun with a trigger lock on it, put safely away behind a keyed door, is the same as a parent driving recklessly into a wall  or some drunk idiot t-boning the family sedan?

Kinesthetics of Trauma, how do they work?
 
2013-05-01 12:25:16 PM  

hardinparamedic: A child at five years of age does not understand the gravity or concept of Death.


This is so sadly true. A friend of mine has a little girl who decided that her kitten should go swimming. The kitten drowned and she didn't understand why kitty wouldn't wake up. :(
 
2013-05-01 12:25:36 PM  

pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


How many of them were 5yr old and driving?
 
2013-05-01 12:25:52 PM  

TNel: pedrop357: Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?

Riding in cars (passive occupant) is the same as someone actively using a weapon?  I don't understand your logic.


I think I may have found your problem.  You're assuming things that clearly don't exist.  Logic doesn't often enter gun debates.  In fact, it seems to actively avoid them altogether.
 
2013-05-01 12:26:24 PM  
Well, it's either this or a freak gardening accident, better leave it unsolved.
 
2013-05-01 12:26:44 PM  

Jim_Callahan: crzybtch: Having worked with 5 year olds, I can tell you that they regularly do things they are told not to do.

Sure, when you're not paying attention to them.  When you're actively watching them, which you should be doing if you're taking them shooting, they'll generally do whatever an adult tells them to do, since the attention itself is a reward for obedience.


don't try and be sensible in a gun nut threadjack.
 
2013-05-01 12:27:42 PM  
I was given my first .22 at 7 by my uncle.  Yeah, I didn't have access to it unattended till I was older.  Parents should be charged.  There is no excuse for negligence of this level.
 
2013-05-01 12:27:43 PM  
The Lexington Herald-Leader reports the weapon - a Crickett branded by makers Keystone Sporting Arms as "My First Rifle" - was given to the boy last year.

 Crickett rifles from the "My First Rifle" collection for kids on the website of Keystone Sporting ArmsPromotional material on KSA's website says the gun aims to "instill safety in the minds of youth shooters."

..................so much for that promo material. Kids will ALWAYS be kids that why they are call KIDS!!!  You CANNOT 'GUNPROOF' kids anymore than you can 'CHILDPROOF' a chainsaw.


Farking gun ads and farking dumass redneck parents.
 
2013-05-01 12:27:44 PM  

pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.



If only there was some sort of government regulation to make cars as safe as possible and limit the number of needless deaths!
 
2013-05-01 12:28:03 PM  

Lord_Baull: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.

And the number would be what without those laws? Higher, maybe? Your position that we should do nothing because current laws are not 100% effective is, well, stupid.


Do you have proof that the laws do anything?  Do teenagers care that alcohol is illegal?  Do they care that drinking and driving is illegal?  You're trying to legislate against stupidity, which is well, stupid.

Rules written on paper aren't what stop people from doing things that are harmful.  People stop doing things that are harmful when they have a deep realization of the reality, and consequences of harmful actions.
 
2013-05-01 12:28:10 PM  
hey, coonts from the previous thread:

farking owned.  now stfu.
 
2013-05-01 12:28:10 PM  

TNel: pedrop357: Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?

Riding in cars (passive occupant) is the same as someone actively using a weapon?  I don't understand your logic.


I thought saving lives was the goal here.  Less than 50 kids die due to firearm accidents each year, while hundreds die in car crashes.

A child passenger is as passive as the victim was in this case.  A young driver is as active as the shooter was in this case.

People fail to realize that the reason people can exhaustively tabulate the children who die from firearm accidents is because the number is so small.

They wouldn't be able to keep up with all the kids who die in car crashes as passengers, drivers, and non occupants.
Their list would be much bigger if they did the same thing for all the kids killed at the hands of their parents and other caregivers, ditto for accidental drownings in pools and even things like buckets.

If saving children's lives is the goal and the standard is zero as set by some people here, let's go after the really big fish and try to save hundreds of lives.

The fact that people obsess over <50 and ignore hundreds demonstrates that they care more about the death in its ability to further a political agenda.
 
2013-05-01 12:29:08 PM  
here's my thoughts
#1 if you feel the need to arm your 5 year old, make it a bb/pellet gun
#2 this wasn't a "freak" accident, this was poor parenting, not only did they give a 5 y/o a .22 but they left it loaded, sitting in a corner of the house.
#3 getting past #2, it was left unsupervised, without a trigger lock or locked in a cabinet.

It's sad the little girl died, but I find it hard to have sympathy given the circumstances
 
2013-05-01 12:29:35 PM  

mytdawg: Hey, already got that "My First Manslaughter" out of the way too.  Making progress kid.


How many achievment points is that??
 
2013-05-01 12:29:50 PM  

dittybopper: Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).


So that's an acceptable able number of child deaths?  I wonder how much it has to be too much? Then I remember  Buckyballs have killed exactly 0 kids, but we can't have those anymore.
 
2013-05-01 12:29:59 PM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


That's nice.  How many 5 year olds do you think are given their own weapon and ammo without direct, constant supervision?  41 deaths seems low compared to the entire population of children.  41 deaths may seem much, much higher when you consider how many children have parents stupid enough to give them access to a gun unsupervised.
 
2013-05-01 12:30:02 PM  
crzybtch:

Well then lets give every 5 year old a bottle of Jack and a rifle, that ought to solve the problem!

This is pretty much why your side fails in these debates.  You only see your solution, and the exact opposite of your solution.  You can't ever seem to grasp that there's other options.
 
2013-05-01 12:30:07 PM  
There is no such thing as an accident with a gun. Every act carried out with a firearm is done with foresight and full intent. Calling any act involving a gun an "accident" is merely an attempt by the guilty party to dodge responsibility.

The parents are guilty of first-degree murder. Anyone who disagrees isn't responsible enough to own a gun.
 
2013-05-01 12:30:25 PM  

hardinparamedic: A_Listless_Wanderer: 15-year-olds are too young to be trusted with birth control

If you read that thread, you should have also learned that women are all filthy whores who seek to victimize men.


Oh, I knew that already!
 
2013-05-01 12:30:37 PM  
I think that as a parent if you are going to have a gun or guns in your house, the kids should be taught how to respect them and realize they are not a toy.  With that said,  the parents "didn't realize a shell was left in the rifle"  I'm sorry but part of responsible gun ownership is ensuring the weapon is safe and secured.  Crazy circumstances or not this is parental negligence.
 
2013-05-01 12:30:46 PM  

pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


When guns are subject to even a fraction of the regulation that cars are, then you MIGHT have an argument here.....
 
2013-05-01 12:30:46 PM  

pedrop357: TNel: pedrop357: Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?

Riding in cars (passive occupant) is the same as someone actively using a weapon?  I don't understand your logic.

I thought saving lives was the goal here.  Less than 50 kids die due to firearm accidents each year, while hundreds die in car crashes.

A child passenger is as passive as the victim was in this case.  A young driver is as active as the shooter was in this case.

People fail to realize that the reason people can exhaustively tabulate the children who die from firearm accidents is because the number is so small.

They wouldn't be able to keep up with all the kids who die in car crashes as passengers, drivers, and non occupants.
Their list would be much bigger if they did the same thing for all the kids killed at the hands of their parents and other caregivers, ditto for accidental drownings in pools and even things like buckets.

If saving children's lives is the goal and the standard is zero as set by some people here, let's go after the really big fish and try to save hundreds of lives.

The fact that people obsess over <50 and ignore hundreds demonstrates that they care more about the death in its ability to further a political agenda.


It's the old "Look at all the crickett rifles that DIDN'T kill anyone" argument.
 
2013-05-01 12:30:58 PM  

Jairzinho: pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.

How many of them were 5yr old and driving?


Probably not many.  Again, I thought the goal was saving lives and railing against dangerous behavior that kills children.

Since cars, pools, parents, etc. kill far more children than guns, why the obsession with guns?  It's almost like the death is used not to just call for safer behavior, but to pursue a tired agenda.
 
2013-05-01 12:31:02 PM  

Haliburton Cummings: hicks + no education + guns =


hicks
+ no education
+ guns
=
www4.bluevalleyk12.orgView Full Size
 
2013-05-01 12:31:09 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?  Do teenagers care that alcohol is illegal?  Do they care that drinking and driving is illegal?  You're trying to legislate against stupidity, which is well, stupid.

Rules written on paper aren't what stop people from doing things that are harmful.  People stop doing things that are harmful when they have a deep realization of the reality, and consequences of harmful actions.


Ah, the old "Laws don't do anything but punish people" spiel. It's been about 20 minutes since this one was used on FARK, I was starting to worry people had grown old and tired of being so intellectually dishonest.

pedrop357: I thought saving lives was the goal here.  Less than 50 kids die due to firearm accidents each year, while hundreds die in car crashes.


And how many of those deaths were preventable in the car crash, due to circumstances outside of the control of the driver?

Let's look at that, and then look at how many preventable deaths there were from firearms among children. (I'm going to say equal to the amount that die each year)
 
2013-05-01 12:31:16 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: My First Car yields predictable results

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10583657/ns/dateline_nbc/t/car-crash-trail -b roken-lives/

Shall we examine Statistics which is deadlier, or just flame gun owners, because that's what the new meme is?



1. Cars/Guns comparison is stupid. Cars have a primary use of transportation. Guns have a primary use of firing bullets.

2. No one gives a car to a 5 year old or tries to teach a five year old to drive.

3. We do require licensing to drive a car.
 
2013-05-01 12:31:57 PM  

the_immoral_minority: Who was the philosopher that said "There are no accidents"

Spot on here


That was the turtle in "Kung Fu Panda."

Still spot on.
 
2013-05-01 12:32:14 PM  

hardinparamedic: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?  Do teenagers care that alcohol is illegal?  Do they care that drinking and driving is illegal?  You're trying to legislate against stupidity, which is well, stupid.

Rules written on paper aren't what stop people from doing things that are harmful.  People stop doing things that are harmful when they have a deep realization of the reality, and consequences of harmful actions.

Ah, the old "Laws don't do anything but punish people" spiel. It's been about 20 minutes since this one was used on FARK, I was starting to worry people had grown old and tired of being so intellectually dishonest.

pedrop357: I thought saving lives was the goal here.  Less than 50 kids die due to firearm accidents each year, while hundreds die in car crashes.

And how many of those deaths were preventable in the car crash, due to circumstances outside of the control of the driver?

Let's look at that, and then look at how many preventable deaths there were from firearms among children. (I'm going to say equal to the amount that die each year)


I'll be waiting patiently for your proof that laws stop people from doing stupid things.
 
2013-05-01 12:33:44 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?


We really need to eliminate homicide laws. We're punishing the responsible killers while criminals will kill regardless of the law.
 
2013-05-01 12:34:14 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: James!: So the solution to the gun problem is better mental health services in the US but giving a gun to a kinder-gardener is A-OK?

No, even the NRA would not say that this was A-OK.


Wait a day or so.  The 2nd amendment applies to all citizens equally, and this kid was a citizen from the moment of conception.  As long as it wasn't legitimate rape.
 
2013-05-01 12:34:24 PM  

tricycleracer: Yogimus: Gotta admit, though... it IS a pretty good litmus test of someone's parenting skills.

You can only buy a gun for your kid if you're a good parent, but only a bad parent would want to buy a gun for their kid.

A real "Catch .22".



my sides have left the building
 
2013-05-01 12:34:25 PM  

pedrop357: Since cars, pools, parents, etc. kill far more children than guns, why the obsession with guns?


Q: Which of the following were invented to inflict harm and death?

a- cars
b- pools
c- guns
 
2013-05-01 12:34:32 PM  

Lord_Baull: pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


If only there was some sort of government regulation to make cars as safe as possible and limit the number of needless deaths!


Yes, and it's doing a wonderful job.  Hundreds dead, thousands injured.
Repeat with things like pools, bathtubs and buckets and their role in small children drowning

Guns which number in the hundreds of millions are responsible for about 40-50 deaths each year,  and that is where everyone really wants to focus?  Perhaps a little perspective is called for.  Parents should be definitely more responsible, but given that we tolerate far more deaths due to accident in other areas, I can't help but wonder why the high priority given to gun accidents.
 
2013-05-01 12:34:55 PM  
I love the comments.

"If that 2 year old were armed she'd be alive today.
sincerely, The NRA"
 
2013-05-01 12:36:12 PM  
Guns still don't kill people though, right?
 
2013-05-01 12:36:15 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: I'll be waiting patiently for your proof that laws stop people from doing stupid things.


I'm not getting into this circular argument with you, because I get tired of chasing your goalposts down. If you want proof that laws stop people from doing "stupid things", you can resort to what ever social philosopher that is your soup de jour.

I'm just going to mock you for touting out such intellectual laziness and dishonesty.

In other words, welcome to FARK.
 
2013-05-01 12:36:29 PM  
white people, amirite?

smdh
 
2013-05-01 12:36:32 PM  

noitsnot: Itstoearly: hardinparamedic: This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here, huge success.

It's hard to understate my satisfaction.

For the good of all of us...

(EXCEPT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DEAD)

kbronsito: or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)

No offense, but perhaps five years old is a little too young to try to teach a child to do anything with a firearm but stay away from them and call an adult if they see one.

If he's too young to understand the gravitas of a concept such as death, then he's too young to play with a bang stick.

Bull.  5 years is old enough to teach how to properly handle a gun.  Not that I would ever trust one alone with one without adult supervision, but a five year old certainly has the mental capacity to learn "Don't point at people or animals, don't hold the trigger unless you are aiming at the paper target, assume there is always a bullet in the gun"

No Bull. Have a look here at the emotional development of a five year old. They have not yet learned the concept of death. They cannot yet view the world from another's point of view. They do not understand ethical or moral values.


Yes. But is a 5-year old able to understand that you'll take the gun away forever and whoop his ass if he touches it w/o an adult present.

Of course... if the kid knows that you'll take his gun away to whoop his ass... he may shoot you to protect his gun ownership right and to keep you from whooping him. I guess it is a bit of a conundrum.
 
2013-05-01 12:36:57 PM  

dittybopper: Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.


Lawn darts killed a total of 3 people before they were banned.

/Given enough lawn darts, I'm pretty sure I can hold back a SWAT assault.
 
2013-05-01 12:37:17 PM  
I learned to shoot at 7 with a .22 but in a controlled environment in scouting. My folks let me have a bb gun and let me shoot unsupervised at targets in the backyard when I was probably 8.

I would never consider giving a .22 to a 5 year old. If I had a child in the house, a gun would always be in a locked safe it sure as shiat wouldn't be sitting in the corner whether or not I thought it was loaded because a gun is ALWAYS considered loaded.

A family is ruined because the parents couldn't observe a simple farking safety rule. Imagine how the 5 yo is going to have to live the rest of his life knowing he killed his sister.
 
2013-05-01 12:37:25 PM  
From the Crickett Testimonials page


http://www.crickett.com/crickett_testimonials.php?osCsid=fg527ig2rj8 qa gprf906lgcpl2">http://www.crickett.com/crickett_testimonials.php?osCs id=fg527ig2rj8qa gprf906lgcpl2

"My wife told me to do something with my daughter after gymnastics today, she recommended going for hot chocolate or a donut. I thought, that's not special, plus once you've consumed the item where does that leave you. Instead we bought a pink Crickett from my six year old daughter and wanted to say thanks for making quality affordable firearms for new shooters. The 'girls' option is especially appreciated because as scary as it sounds the color really helped get her excitet about it. Bethany says thanks too! She'll be quite fashionalble at the Sportsman Club tomorrow." Chris "I wanted to tell you about my daughter's first gun. For Christmas 05' My oldest kid,6,wanted Santa to bring her, her first real gun. When her teacher at school told the class to write a letter to Santa about what they really wanted for Christmans, she wrote "I want a rel gun my size". The teacher said she couldn't write that at school and had to write something else. When she told me and her mom about that I decided taht if i had to sell one of my guns to get her one I would..Luckally I didn't have to sell any of mine to get Chris her gun. She is so responsible, and had proved it with a bb gun, that my wife and I went shopping a few days before Christmas...Our local gun store had just the perfect model in stock. Pink laminiated stock and stainless barrel. To see her face on Christmas morning after opening te wrapping paper was priceless. Out of the box she was a crack shot at 10-15 yeards, and just yesterday she bagged her first ground squirl at about 15 yards..thank you for such a great product that has brought so much fun and joy to my kid...and our family."Michael "I just wanted to send in a photo of my daughter's new Crickett rifle. I ordered it from Gander Mountain.It is a bull barrel thumbhole pink laminated stock model. I added a bipod and a 3.5x10x50 scope. It turned out to be a great little target gun for her. I enjoy shooting it too."

Larry -- From GA
 
2013-05-01 12:37:28 PM  

pedrop357: Lord_Baull: pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


If only there was some sort of government regulation to make cars as safe as possible and limit the number of needless deaths!

Yes, and it's doing a wonderful job.  Hundreds dead, thousands injured.
Repeat with things like pools, bathtubs and buckets and their role in small children drowning

Guns which number in the hundreds of millions are responsible for about 40-50 deaths each year,  and that is where everyone really wants to focus?  Perhaps a little perspective is called for.  Parents should be definitely more responsible, but given that we tolerate far more deaths due to accident in other areas, I can't help but wonder why the high priority given to gun accidents.


Ladies and gentlemen, the stereotypical libertarian.
 
2013-05-01 12:37:48 PM  

pedrop357: crzybtch: Only 41 kids dead? Oh, then no problem. Lets keep kids and guns together.

Or maybe....ZERO kids dead might be a better idea??

Like it would RUIN someone's life if they didn't touch a gun til they are 21? Seriously??

ZERO is a good number.  Like it would seriously RUIN someone's life if they didn't ride in or drive a car until they are 21?  Seriously??


A person can live their whole life without ever touching a gun without any problem.  Completely realistic.
A person could live their whole life without ever driving a car.  Unrealistic in today's world, but possible.

However, if you throw out a vote for a law that gun and cars are banned for all until age 21, you get my vote.  Call me an idiot, but I want less dead children.

That being said, for you to compare teenagers getting killed in car wrecks versus a FIVE year old killing his little sister with a gun, I think you really need to think a little harder about the difference between the two.  Seriously!
 
2013-05-01 12:37:57 PM  
but they're sooooo cute with their little guns...
won' t someone think of the children('s second amendment rights)

addictinginfo.orgView Full Size


btw... don't do a google image search of 'kids with guns'
 
2013-05-01 12:37:58 PM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


Well that excuses the fact that following firearm safety rules could have prevented this. "Doesn't happen often so that makes it an accident." Whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
2013-05-01 12:38:07 PM  
A 5-year-old certainly has the capacity to learn firearm safety and understand certain consequences. The emotional and intellectual discipline to be relied on to apply that learning is something else entirely, as is the physical development to avoid waving it around or accidentally pulling the trigger if they're rough-housing or get distracted.

I'm about as freedom loving as they get, but these parents should be charged. It's Guns 101 that there could always be a loaded round you didn't know about. The simple fact that they've admitted they didn't care enough or know enough to check for a round and yet left it out for a child to access anyway should really be treated as a reckless disregard for human life. Just because it was a crazy accident doesn't mean the crazy that led to the death of a child shouldn't be regarded as a crime.
 
2013-05-01 12:38:14 PM  
Why wouldn't you just get the kid a BB gun? What could you possibly be doing at 5 years old that you couldn't do with a BB gun? It's like giving a 5yr old a Kawasaki instead of a tricycle. They're called "baby steps" for a reason.
 
2013-05-01 12:38:55 PM  

kbronsito: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

or neglect to teach a gun owner that you never ever, ever point a gun at another human even if you think it is unloaded (unless your intent is to actually shoot that person)


Five, dude. Five years old. You can't teach a 5-year-old not to crap his pants with 100 percent success. You buy a rifle for a 5-year-old, you should get a stern talking-to from DFCS. Eight is another thing entirely, but no kid should have unsupervised access to firearms and ammo.
 
2013-05-01 12:39:06 PM  

dittybopper: bdub77: Marcus Aurelius: bdub77: The county coroner has ruled the death 'just one of those crazy accidents.'

No. Some adult gave a loaded gun to a 5-yr old. This isn't a crazy accident. This is parental negligence.

Also WHO GIVES A F*CKING FIREARM TO A 5 YEAR OLD?

Congratulations, dumbass. Now you've ruined at least four lives.

Or brings a loaded gun into the house.  Or leaves a gun leaning in a corner somewhere.

just one of those 'crazy accidents' i guess. OOPSIE.

Actually, yes, it is.

Do you know how many kids age 11 and under die in gun accidents every year?

Less than 50.  In fact, in 2010, the number was 41.  The chance is literally greater than a million to one (the rate is .08 per 100,000).

So yeah, it *IS* one of those crazy accidents.

/Of course, shouldn't have been any ammo in the room
//Should have been very supervised at that age.
///littlebopper got his first .22 at age 8.


Just because other parents are smart enough to keep loaded guns locked up and away from their children doesn't suddenly make this not a case of negligence.  These kids parents were negligent, plain and simple.

/the little ones probably would have found some other way to die if it weren't for the gun
 
2013-05-01 12:39:13 PM  

pedrop357: Is anyone going to criticize parents for allowing their kids to ride in cars, given that motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause for people 4 to 26?


No, but I would certainly criticize parents for allowing their kids to  drive cars, and I would most assuredly criticize a company that produces, markets and sells a fully functional car designed especially for 5-year-olds.
You really can't be so daft that you don't recognize the difference, right?
 
2013-05-01 12:39:36 PM  

Jairzinho: pedrop357: Since cars, pools, parents, etc. kill far more children than guns, why the obsession with guns?

Q: Which of the following were invented to inflict harm and death?

a- cars
b- pools
c- guns


I suppose you want the answer c, so I'll give you that.

What's great about the order you placed those in, is that it's the same rank those things have in accidental deaths and injuries of small children.

The one thing "invented to inflict harm and death " is responsible for much less of it than things not invented for that purpose.

I guess when it comes to focusing on the things that kill and injure small children, their welfare takes a backseat (no pun intended) to more agenda pushing.
 
2013-05-01 12:40:33 PM  

pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


You know, I grew up around guns. Hunted most of my life and I do in fact support the 2nd amendment. The rest of us reasonable and rational gun owners really wish guys like you would STFU. You are not helping. Your argument is the worst kind of nonsense and everyone see's through your lame attempt to change the subject.
 
2013-05-01 12:41:12 PM  

Sofa King Smart: but they're sooooo cute with their little guns...
won' t someone think of the children('s second amendment rights)

[www.addictinginfo.org image 650x422]

btw... don't do a google image search of 'kids with guns'


...now imagine they're black.
 
2013-05-01 12:41:43 PM  
There weren't guns in the house when I was growing up,my mom can't stand them because she watched her dad shoot himself in the chest twice with a .38. I went to a summer camp thing sponsored by the Kentucky Forestry division and before we ever got to even touch the guns we were taught a ton about gun safety and they never allowed us to be unsupervised with them.
/Boring story sis.
 
2013-05-01 12:41:45 PM  

pippi longstocking: Get rid of the 2nd Amendment, it's a relic. A gun is not a human right to life, it's a privilege. I'm not saying that they should take away your guns, but they should be treated as a privilege not a right.

You have more of a "right" to a gun than you do to a driver's license.


Well, that, and most people who keep guns for "protection" keep it for "protecting" themselves from fellow civilians, not against the government.
 
2013-05-01 12:42:31 PM  
Giving a 4 year old child a gun is a God given right!

Shooting toddlers is just some crazy accident...much in the same way as a shart!  There's no need to charge the parents, hell I'm sure they'll look back on this in the coming years and just laugh and laugh about how they armed their 4 year old and then a year later, whoo boy did we have fun!
 
2013-05-01 12:42:36 PM  

crzybtch: However, if you throw out a vote for a law that gun and cars are banned for all until age 21, you get my vote. Call me an idiot, but I want less dead children.

That being said, for you to compare teenagers getting killed in car wrecks versus a FIVE year old killing his little sister with a gun, I think you really need to think a little harder about the difference between the two. Seriously!


Vehicles are the cause of death for 4-26 year olds.  Lots of small children in there.  Far more 4-11 year olds killed in car crashes than killed in gun accidents.

Car crashes are the 2nd and/or 3rd leading cause of death for 0-4 year olds.  Gun accidents are literally one in a million events.

If you actually cared about saving lives, you'd be more interested in the things that 'killed' hundreds of young children and not the thing that 'kills' under 50.
 
2013-05-01 12:43:12 PM  

Tman144: Why wouldn't you just get the kid a BB gun? What could you possibly be doing at 5 years old that you couldn't do with a BB gun? It's like giving a 5yr old a Kawasaki instead of a tricycle. They're called "baby steps" for a reason.


static.giantbomb.comView Full Size


Agrees.

There'll be plenty of time when he's older, and finds Power Armor.
 
2013-05-01 12:43:16 PM  
If only the parents had also given the 2 year old a rifle this whole incident could have been avoided.
 
2013-05-01 12:43:48 PM  

A Terrible Human: she watched her dad shoot himself in the chest twice with a .38.


Brutal.

media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2013-05-01 12:43:52 PM  
I am at a serious loss as to why some people in this thread are defending giving a gun to a 5 year old.
 
2013-05-01 12:44:16 PM  

Jim_Callahan: crzybtch: Having worked with 5 year olds, I can tell you that they regularly do things they are told not to do.

Sure, when you're not paying attention to them.  When you're actively watching them, which you should be doing if you're taking them shooting, they'll generally do whatever an adult tells them to do, since the attention itself is a reward for obedience.


And I suppose the average 5 year old would never make a mistake either?

I suppose the kid would be just as happy going skating, riding bikes, playing soccer, flying a kite, building a model, playing baseball, using a skateboard, hiking, etc, etc, etc. but his life would be so barren and meaningless if he never shot a gun.  Right?
 
2013-05-01 12:44:26 PM  

FlashHarry: this wouldn't have happened if the two-year-old had been carrying.


Damnit, I should at least scan the first 10 posts before I post...
 
2013-05-01 12:45:58 PM  

pedrop357: Lord_Baull: pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.


If only there was some sort of government regulation to make cars as safe as possible and limit the number of needless deaths!

Yes, and it's doing a wonderful job.  Hundreds dead, thousands injured.
Repeat with things like pools, bathtubs and buckets and their role in small children drowning

Guns which number in the hundreds of millions are responsible for about 40-50 deaths each year,  and that is where everyone really wants to focus?  Perhaps a little perspective is called for.  Parents should be definitely more responsible, but given that we tolerate far more deaths due to accident in other areas, I can't help but wonder why the high priority given to gun accidents.


I GOT THE SOLUTION!  Everyone isn't allowed to leave their house or their bed.  I mean people die from skin cancer so you can't go outside you could die from the sun.  People slip and fall in the shower and die so we better ban showers, some people fall asleep taking a bath so we better ban baths so you can only use wet wipes to clean up.

GUN ACCIDENTS ARE FULLY PREVENTABLE!  I have yet to see a gun "accident" that could not have been prevented if common steps would have been taken.  BTW there are more than 40-50 deaths per year by guns.
 
2013-05-01 12:46:57 PM  

Cupajo: No, but I would certainly criticize parents for allowing their kids to drive cars, and I would most assuredly criticize a company that produces, markets and sells a fully functional car designed especially for 5-year-olds.
You really can't be so daft that you don't recognize the difference, right?


I do see the difference.  But, when kids are left in a car and cause it to move, or snag the keys and cause some kind of injury or death, the parents are blamed and it pretty much ends their.  No one starts blaming the "car lobby" or engaging in various diatribes against car ownership or the fact that ANYONE can buy a car.
It doesn't happen when parents give their teenager a car either.

When guns are involved, you can expect all kinds of half baked attacks on the NRA, gun owners, idiotic strawmen about how if the 2 year old was armed, etc.  It's plainly obvious that it's about guns and a political agenda and not about saving lives or protecting children.
 
2013-05-01 12:46:57 PM  

markb289: 1. Cars/Guns comparison is stupid. Cars have a primary use of transportation. Guns have a primary use of firing bullets.

2. No one gives a car to a 5 year old or tries to teach a five year old to drive.

3. We do require licensing to drive a car.


You're required to go through courses and have a license in Canada in order to purchase a firearm.
 
2013-05-01 12:47:19 PM  

PoweredByIrony: Slaves2Darkness: James!: So the solution to the gun problem is better mental health services in the US but giving a gun to a kinder-gardener is A-OK?

No, even the NRA would not say that this was A-OK.

Wait a day or so.  The 2nd amendment applies to all citizens equally, and this kid was a citizen from the moment of conceptionbirth.  As long as it wasn't legitimate rape.


/let's not be ignorant here
 
2013-05-01 12:48:12 PM  

pedrop357: Jairzinho: pedrop357: Since cars, pools, parents, etc. kill far more children than guns, why the obsession with guns?

Q: Which of the following were invented to inflict harm and death?

a- cars
b- pools
c- guns

I suppose you want the answer c, so I'll give you that.

What's great about the order you placed those in, is that it's the same rank those things have in accidental deaths and injuries of small children.

The one thing "invented to inflict harm and death " is responsible for much less of it than things not invented for that purpose.

I guess when it comes to focusing on the things that kill and injure small children, their welfare takes a backseat (no pun intended) to more agenda pushing.


That's because most people aren't stupid enough to let 5 yr olds play with guns, whereas with cars and pools, 5 yr olds interact with them more often.
 
2013-05-01 12:48:14 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: A Terrible Human: she watched her dad shoot himself in the chest twice with a .38.

Brutal.

[media.tumblr.com image 280x210]


He lived and ended up breaking his back by trying to kill himself by jumping off a cliff. He was very mentally ill and spent a lot of time at various mental hospitals.
 
2013-05-01 12:48:15 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Lord_Baull: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Yeah, because making alcohol illegal for people under 21 stops them from drinking and driving.. and dying over a thousand times each year.  Oh wait, it doesn't.

And the number would be what without those laws? Higher, maybe? Your position that we should do nothing because current laws are not 100% effective is, well, stupid.

Do you have proof that the laws do anything?  Do teenagers care that alcohol is illegal?  Do they care that drinking and driving is illegal?  You're trying to legislate against stupidity, which is well, stupid.

Rules written on paper aren't what stop people from doing things that are harmful.  People stop doing things that are harmful when they have a deep realization of the reality, and consequences of harmful actions.



Riiighhhht. If there were no 21 alcohol laws, 19 year olds would still not drink because they have a deep realization of the reality and consequences of harmful actions.
 
2013-05-01 12:48:58 PM  
oh look dittybopper is whiteknighting guns again. totally never would've expected him in this thread.
 
2013-05-01 12:50:08 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: hardinparamedic: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?  Do teenagers care that alcohol is illegal?  Do they care that drinking and driving is illegal?  You're trying to legislate against stupidity, which is well, stupid.

Rules written on paper aren't what stop people from doing things that are harmful.  People stop doing things that are harmful when they have a deep realization of the reality, and consequences of harmful actions.

Ah, the old "Laws don't do anything but punish people" spiel. It's been about 20 minutes since this one was used on FARK, I was starting to worry people had grown old and tired of being so intellectually dishonest.

I'll be waiting patiently for your proof that laws stop people from doing stupid things.


Well, you've convinced me. Repeal all laws!
 
2013-05-01 12:50:39 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: crzybtch:

Well then lets give every 5 year old a bottle of Jack and a rifle, that ought to solve the problem!

This is pretty much why your side fails in these debates.  You only see your solution, and the exact opposite of your solution.  You can't ever seem to grasp that there's other options.


Well you are the one that decided to equate a 5 year old with a gun to sales of alcohol, so I call that a fail.  When "my side" understands that kids should not have guns so that there are less dead childen, all your options come up short because they still include that handful of dead children that you don't seem to be very worried about.
 
2013-05-01 12:51:12 PM  

pedrop357: Vehicles are the cause of death for 4-26 year olds.  Lots of small children in there.  Far more 4-11 year olds killed in car crashes than killed in gun accidents.

Car crashes are the 2nd and/or 3rd leading cause of death for 0-4 year olds.  Gun accidents are literally one in a million events.

If you actually cared about saving lives, you'd be more interested in the things that 'killed' hundreds of young children and not the thing that 'kills' under 50.


OK look it's not all about saving lives numbskull, cars are needed for your daily life are guns needed daily?  Can you go about your life for 1 week without a car/mode of transportation?  Can you go a week without a gun?

I am trying hard to figure out what you are trying to defend?  Are you defending the parents?  Are you defending that children under 5 should be allowed to have a gun?
 
2013-05-01 12:52:01 PM  

pedrop357: Cupajo: No, but I would certainly criticize parents for allowing their kids to drive cars, and I would most assuredly criticize a company that produces, markets and sells a fully functional car designed especially for 5-year-olds.
You really can't be so daft that you don't recognize the difference, right?

I do see the difference.  But, when kids are left in a car and cause it to move, or snag the keys and cause some kind of injury or death, the parents are blamed and it pretty much ends their.  No one starts blaming the "car lobby" or engaging in various diatribes against car ownership or the fact that ANYONE can buy a car.
It doesn't happen when parents give their teenager a car either.

When guns are involved, you can expect all kinds of half baked attacks on the NRA, gun owners, idiotic strawmen about how if the 2 year old was armed, etc.  It's plainly obvious that it's about guns and a political agenda and not about saving lives or protecting children.


Let me know when Ford starting making and marketing fully functional cars for 5yr olds. Then I'll blame the "car lobby"
 
2013-05-01 12:52:06 PM  
It's nice to know that if I gave a five year old a stick of dynamite and a lit match, it will be ruled a "crazy accident" when he blows himself up.

Really.  That's SUCH a load off my chest.
 
2013-05-01 12:52:16 PM  

pedrop357: Lord_Baull: If only there was some sort of government regulation to make cars as safe as possible and limit the number of needless deaths!

Yes, and it's doing a wonderful job.  Hundreds dead, thousands injured.



Look up the terms "windshield horse collar effect," then get back to me.
 
2013-05-01 12:52:26 PM  
pedrop357:

You're wasting your breath on these Farkers. What you should do instead is go and meet some of the Sandy Hook parents and tell them how relieved and grateful they should be that their kids weren't killed in car accidents. They beat the odds, yay!
 
2013-05-01 12:52:28 PM  

jaytkay: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?

We really need to eliminate homicide laws. We're punishing the responsible killers while criminals will kill regardless of the law.


We still need to punish murderers, so in that regard, the law serves a purpose, but if you think murder laws are preventing murders, you're an idiot.
 
2013-05-01 12:53:23 PM  

pedrop357: crzybtch: However, if you throw out a vote for a law that gun and cars are banned for all until age 21, you get my vote. Call me an idiot, but I want less dead children.

That being said, for you to compare teenagers getting killed in car wrecks versus a FIVE year old killing his little sister with a gun, I think you really need to think a little harder about the difference between the two. Seriously!

Vehicles are the cause of death for 4-26 year olds.  Lots of small children in there.  Far more 4-11 year olds killed in car crashes than killed in gun accidents.

Car crashes are the 2nd and/or 3rd leading cause of death for 0-4 year olds.  Gun accidents are literally one in a million events.

If you actually cared about saving lives, you'd be more interested in the things that 'killed' hundreds of young children and not the thing that 'kills' under 50.


It's almost like cars serve another purpose than killing things.
 
2013-05-01 12:53:55 PM  

crzybtch: Well you are the one that decided to equate a 5 year old with a gun to sales of alcohol, so I call that a fail.


I call your reading comprehension a fail.
 
2013-05-01 12:54:36 PM  
Guess they shouldve skipped giving him my first ammo
 
2013-05-01 12:54:50 PM  

sammyk: pedrop357: Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 530x453]

I've been assured that nothing can be done and this is just the price we pay for freedom.

Don't tell him about the hundreds of kids who die in car crashes.

You know, I grew up around guns. Hunted most of my life and I do in fact support the 2nd amendment. The rest of us reasonable and rational gun owners really wish guys like you would STFU. You are not helping. Your argument is the worst kind of nonsense and everyone see's through your lame attempt to change the subject.


Weird, because I wish the douchebags who insist that "the laws don't stop all crime anyway herp derp" would stop spreading their bullshiat everywhere.  Huh.
 
2013-05-01 12:55:12 PM  

pedrop357: I do see the difference.  But, when kids are left in a car and cause it to move, or snag the keys and cause some kind of injury or death, the parents are blamed and it pretty much ends their.  No one starts blaming the "car lobby" or engaging in various diatribes against car ownership or the fact that ANYONE can buy a car.
It doesn't happen when parents give their teenager a car either.

When guns are involved, you can expect all kinds of half baked attacks on the NRA, gun owners, idiotic strawmen about how if the 2 year old was armed, etc.  It's plainly obvious that it's about guns and a political agenda and not about saving lives or protecting children.


Has anyone in this thread talked about banning guns?  I read the entire thing and I don't remember one post.  We all said children that young should never have a gun.  When a child puts a car into drive parents are charged with negligence, these parents so far are getting off with nothing when they should be charged.

Not anyone can buy a car btw you have to have a valid license, yet to buy a gun you need no such license.
 
2013-05-01 12:55:14 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: jaytkay: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?

We really need to eliminate homicide laws. We're punishing the responsible killers while criminals will kill regardless of the law.

We still need to punish murderers, so in that regard, the law serves a purpose, but if you think murder laws are preventing murders, you're an idiot.


It's really more about prosecuting murderers than preventing them.
 
2013-05-01 12:55:41 PM  
What I wanna know is, did the parents take the rifle away from the 5 year old now or at least lock it up somewhere besides resting in the corner of the room? Were lessons learned here?

Given the facts, my guess would be double no.
 
2013-05-01 12:56:01 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: jaytkay: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?

We really need to eliminate homicide laws. We're punishing the responsible killers while criminals will kill regardless of the law.

We still need to punish murderers, so in that regard, the law serves a purpose, but if you think murder laws are preventing murders, you're an idiot.


Not sure if serious?
 
2013-05-01 12:56:42 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: jaytkay: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?

We really need to eliminate homicide laws. We're punishing the responsible killers while criminals will kill regardless of the law.

We still need to punish murderers, so in that regard, the law serves a purpose, but if you think murder laws are preventing murders, you're an idiot.


You don't think there would be more people being killed by other people if it were legal to do so? Are you out of your mind? What about robbery? If there were not laws against stealing, you don't think there would be more stealing going on?
 
2013-05-01 12:56:44 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: We still need to punish murderers, so in that regard, the law serves a purpose, but if you think murder laws are preventing murders, you're an idiot.



You honestly believe that the threat of incarceration doesn't keep people from breaking the law? Do you honestly think there aren't people out there who would love to put a cap in someone's ass, but don't because of the legal ramifications?
 
2013-05-01 12:56:59 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Maybe the safety failed, children's weapons are often not manufactured to the same rigorous quality standards as the real thing...hell, two of the Hello Kitty hand grenades I bought last week went off in the car on the way home...


This gave me enjoyment.

Thank you.

I'll have a seat over here.
 
2013-05-01 12:57:08 PM  

pedrop357: crzybtch: However, if you throw out a vote for a law that gun and cars are banned for all until age 21, you get my vote. Call me an idiot, but I want less dead children.

That being said, for you to compare teenagers getting killed in car wrecks versus a FIVE year old killing his little sister with a gun, I think you really need to think a little harder about the difference between the two. Seriously!

Vehicles are the cause of death for 4-26 year olds.  Lots of small children in there.  Far more 4-11 year olds killed in car crashes than killed in gun accidents.

Car crashes are the 2nd and/or 3rd leading cause of death for 0-4 year olds.  Gun accidents are literally one in a million events.

If you actually cared about saving lives, you'd be more interested in the things that 'killed' hundreds of young children and not the thing that 'kills' under 50.


Are you REALLY that stupid?
 
2013-05-01 12:58:22 PM  

pedrop357: crzybtch: However, if you throw out a vote for a law that gun and cars are banned for all until age 21, you get my vote. Call me an idiot, but I want less dead children.

That being said, for you to compare teenagers getting killed in car wrecks versus a FIVE year old killing his little sister with a gun, I think you really need to think a little harder about the difference between the two. Seriously!

Vehicles are the cause of death for 4-26 year olds.  Lots of small children in there.  Far more 4-11 year olds killed in car crashes than killed in gun accidents.

Car crashes are the 2nd and/or 3rd leading cause of death for 0-4 year olds.  Gun accidents are literally one in a million events.

If you actually cared about saving lives, you'd be more interested in the things that 'killed' hundreds of young children and not the thing that 'kills' under 50.


Kids often have a necessity to go places in cars. No child has a necessity to possess a rifle.
 
2013-05-01 01:00:06 PM  

mizchief: BraveNewCheneyWorld: jaytkay: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Do you have proof that the laws do anything?

We really need to eliminate homicide laws. We're punishing the responsible killers while criminals will kill regardless of the law.

We still need to punish murderers, so in that regard, the law serves a purpose, but if you think murder laws are preventing murders, you're an idiot.

The issue is that a law banning murder does not an innocent person from defending themselves, where a law banning the tools used in murder do.


What proposed law was banning 'the tools used in murder' that an innocent person can use to defend themselves?
 
2013-05-01 01:00:09 PM  

TNel: I GOT THE SOLUTION! Everyone isn't allowed to leave their house or their bed. I mean people die from skin cancer so you can't go outside you could die from the sun. People slip and fall in the shower and die so we better ban showers, some people fall asleep taking a bath so we better ban baths so you can only use wet wipes to clean up.


Now you're thinking like the anti-gun crowd.

GUN ACCIDENTS ARE FULLY PREVENTABLE! I have yet to see a gun "accident" that could not have been prevented if common steps would have been taken. BTW there are more than 40-50 deaths per year by guns.

The 40-50 comes from the number of children under 11 or so that die from accidents with firearms.

The type of accident usually comes from a small number of irresponsible parents who misjudge or don't judge the propensity for harm by not engaging in certain precautionary steps and those kinds of parents will always exist.  They won't be swayed by PSAs and advice.  In short, we're stuck with them.

Decently responsible parents don't need all of that because they already know not to do those things.

The same tired solutions that are always tossed always involve more restrictions on all firearm owners/purchasers, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority don't need them and that tiny minority causing a problem will disregard them anyway.

THIS is why I bring up cars and things like that.  I want to see if the people in here advocate for broad regulations and engage in the idiotic strawmen and employ the same anti-gun nonsense will do it for other bigger killers of kids, especially when a significant number of the kids killed in crashes, pool accidents, etc. are ALSO the result of idiot parents.

How many unbuckled, un-car seated kids are killed each year?  All of those are preventable, yet the only way to deal with them would be largely invasive and infringing upon the vast majority that don't need to be told again to buckle up or use car seats.

Do the same thing with pools, buckets, bath tubs.  Pools are required to have gates and alarms in many areas and buckets have warnings about children can drown in small amounts of water, yet we still get more of these preventable deaths each year then gun accidents.  Same with bathtubs.

Exactly how does anyone here propose to deal with these 40-50 accidental deaths each year?  Then, tell me how you can do it without yet another rule/regulation that will only add yet another burden to the types of people who don't need while also not really doing about the careless idiots.  Then, are you willing to engage in the same kind of effort for all those preventable deaths from car crashes and drownings like I described above?
 
2013-05-01 01:01:08 PM  

AnonymooseFarker: I think that as a parent if you are going to have a gun or guns in your house, the kids should be taught how to respect them and realize they are not a toy.

See....this is the EXACT type of mentality which probably led to this tragedy in the first place!! Kids's parents probably thought that too.5yr olds do NOT have the mental acuity to truly understand that thought process!!! you simply CANNOT teach a 5 yr old to respect anything 100% of the time! I don't care how well you think you're raise your kids,
 
2013-05-01 01:01:46 PM  

Der Poopflinger: markb289: 1. Cars/Guns comparison is stupid. Cars have a primary use of transportation. Guns have a primary use of firing bullets.

2. No one gives a car to a 5 year old or tries to teach a five year old to drive.

3. We do require licensing to drive a car.

You're required to go through courses and have a license in Canada in order to purchase a firearm.


No 5 Year Old should have a rifle or any firearm. There's a reason 5 Year Olds are not held legally responsible for their actions. It is because they do not have the maturity to weigh the consequences of decisions and the relationship of cause and effect.
 
2013-05-01 01:01:48 PM  

Tman144: pedrop357: Cupajo: No, but I would certainly criticize parents for allowing their kids to drive cars, and I would most assuredly criticize a company that produces, markets and sells a fully functional car designed especially for 5-year-olds.
You really can't be so daft that you don't recognize the difference, right?

I do see the difference.  But, when kids are left in a car and cause it to move, or snag the keys and cause some kind of injury or death, the parents are blamed and it pretty much ends their.  No one starts blaming the "car lobby" or engaging in various diatribes against car ownership or the fact that ANYONE can buy a car.
It doesn't happen when parents give their teenager a car either.

When guns are involved, you can expect all kinds of half baked attacks on the NRA, gun owners, idiotic strawmen about how if the 2 year old was armed, etc.  It's plainly obvious that it's about guns and a political agenda and not about saving lives or protecting children.

Let me know when Ford starting making and marketing fully functional cars for 5yr olds. Then I'll blame the "car lobby"


One small gun maker marketing guns to PARENTS for their children is not the totality of the gun industry, and not like Ford doing it.