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(Patheos)   In other news, there are atheist Witches, believing in magic, but not God   (patheos.com) divider line 78
    More: Ironic, witches, god, Sufis, Reform Judaism, atheists, infinity, paganisms  
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1294 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 May 2013 at 11:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 02:26:33 PM  
Atheist is just something people use as a label.   I don't believe in the supernatural at all.  None of it.  No gods, ghosts, devils or fairies.   If you believe in any of that sort of thing, I will immediately deduct 50 points from my estimation of your I.Q.

Another label people use for me - arrogant, condescending asshole.   Guilty as charged.
 
2013-05-01 02:54:17 PM  

Mugato: In before a bunch of condescending blowhards get pedantic about precise definitions of various made up bullshi---

I am wayyy too late.


By a few thousand years.
 
2013-05-01 03:05:02 PM  
I describe myself as an athiest, and a rationalist.

I see no need for anything supernatural, para physical, metapysical, divine, spiritual or whatever.

I was asked "well what about things we don't know the answer for, what would you call them."

I replied, "Shiat we have not yet figured out."

she said, "yes, what would you call that."

me, "I would CALL it, 'Shiat we have not yet figured out."

she said, "so God!"

me "sigh"   I felt no further need to validate or invalidate her emotional need for answers to shiat that does not yet have answers.
 
2013-05-01 03:23:28 PM  

PirateKing: I flirted briefly with Wicca while I was still in my spiritual searching phase. At least until my natural empiricist side showed itself. Some guy claimed that his 'spirit guide' or whatever made him immune to fire and gave him the ability to levitate. So I set his coat on fire and pushed him over a balcony. Not a high balcony, but enough to prove that his abilities were not available on demand. I was not a good Wiccan.


Better than he was, evidently.
 
2013-05-01 04:01:15 PM  
I consider myself an aggressive skeptic and strong adherent to empiricism and the scientific method, but I'm not a robot. I'm a human being with emotions, dreams, a sense of the mystery surrounding reality. I can't say that the notion of anthropomorphized deities will ever make "sense" to me, seeing as how we now know human beings are far from being the inheritors of the known universe, something that was believed when the known universe was imagined to be measured in miles instead of light years.

I appreciate the open-ended, fantastic way that occultism paints reality... as if there is still a shroud of mystery in rituals and practices, a nice correlation i.m.o. to the real mysteries ever-present in scientific knowledge. At least it isnt the dogmatic, suffocating yoke that organized religion burdens cultures with. People who are arrogant enough to believe the essence of creation communicates with them need to be kicked stiffly in the groin.
 
2013-05-01 04:17:20 PM  
fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-05-01 04:45:43 PM  

optimus_grime: pretty sure no witches believe in god... yahweh that is.


You are wrong. I've known several Christian witches and Christians who do color magic through the divine blessing of the lord god. Yeah both flavors of delusion are alive and well.
 
2013-05-01 04:48:35 PM  

Hawnkee: SpdrJay: I am an agnostic who doesn't believe in atheists.

I'm a dyslexic agnostic insomniac who stays up late wondering if there is a dog.


Lair if you were dyslexic you would wonder fi there was an odg or dgo.
 
2013-05-01 04:52:26 PM  

Rwa2play: From what I got, it seems that witches don't believe in one, omniscient supreme being in the universe, but rather many of them.


Or that many of them are aspects of something bigger, a bit like Hinduism.

Many of the pagan paths, including Wicca, differ in that the focus is not on belief or what the practitioner thinks about "gods", if anything, but in how the rituals are taught and practised.

Thus, little orthodoxy, and more orthopraxy. You need ritual chops more than faith, as pagans are pretty D.I.Y. on that score and don't really pray for stuff like monotheists do. Or if they do, it's not because it's expected of them. Most pagan theology is about personal responsibility, actions and consequences, not about remarking "oh, gods, you are so very big..."

And there's very little weirdness about bacon and foreskins.
 
2013-05-01 05:07:41 PM  

Durboloid: Atheist is just something people use as a label.   I don't believe in the supernatural at all.  None of it.  No gods, ghosts, devils or fairies.   If you believe in any of that sort of thing, I will immediately deduct 50 points from my estimation of your I.Q.

Another label people use for me - arrogant, condescending asshole.   Guilty as charged.


See, not to offend any atheists in the thread:  but unless you have a 100% explanation as to what happened before the Big Bang and even before that, I can respect your stance, just don't see the logic behind it.
 
2013-05-01 05:45:21 PM  

wiseolddude: An actual atheist believes in no gods of any kind.


So if I think I'm an atheist but believe myself to be god-like am I not an atheist?
 
2013-05-01 05:51:00 PM  

Rwa2play: See, not to offend any atheists in the thread: but unless you have a 100% explanation as to what happened before the Big Bang and even before that, I can respect your stance, just don't see the logic behind it.


The evidence we have suggests some possible theories, however the fact is we do not know yet.
The logical stance to take then, is to say "we don't know" not "a magical being did it."  In what possible reality would the logical answer be to make shiat up when you don't know an answer?  This is what religions do.
 
2013-05-01 06:03:01 PM  
I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is agnostic. Or at the very least spiritual.
 
2013-05-01 06:10:16 PM  

ReverendJasen: Rwa2play: See, not to offend any atheists in the thread: but unless you have a 100% explanation as to what happened before the Big Bang and even before that, I can respect your stance, just don't see the logic behind it.

The evidence we have suggests some possible theories, however the fact is we do not know yet.
The logical stance to take then, is to say "we don't know" not "a magical being did it."  In what possible reality would the logical answer be to make shiat up when you don't know an answer?  This is what religions do.


some atheists say, "we don't know, but you're definitely wrong."

then they get to proselytizing, and being douches like holier than thou fundies.

so, in that way, atheism is sometimes like a religion.

/ hell is other people
 
2013-05-01 06:35:16 PM  

Rwa2play: From what I got, it seems that witches don't believe in one, omniscient supreme being in the universe, but rather many of them.


Wouldn't that make them polytheists vs. atheists?
 
2013-05-01 06:40:22 PM  

t3knomanser: wiseolddude: An actual atheist believes in no gods of any kind.

Well, this is where you have to be careful. Thor exists. YHWH exists. Not as physical beings that actually  do things, but as concepts that can be discussed and manipulated. If you are the sort of person who believes thoughts have mystical powers, then the fact that the idea of a deity exists means that the deity  exists in a meaningful way. This means that prayers to that entity can still have power, even though the entity itself is only a fiction.


But working off that line of logic, one cannot rule a being that has SUPREME thought and is therefore a SUPREME being.

An atheists rejects the notion of a G-d, an agnostic states that they simply do not know who/what god is, since there is not enough evidence to say Yes/No with certainty.

I don't think many people who call themselves atheists are truly without a faith that is unsupported by facts.  I think they simply enjoy sticking their nose in the air to whatever they believe 'religious authority' is (typically personal experience with parents or a minister).
 
2013-05-01 07:02:06 PM  
But are they bi, and large?

Pagans, wiccans, Druids etc. are all people who should really know better.
 
2013-05-01 07:42:08 PM  

mephox: I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is agnostic. Or at the very least spiritual.


I identify myself as a Spiritual Agnostic.
 
2013-05-01 08:42:15 PM  

Hawnkee: SpdrJay: I am an agnostic who doesn't believe in atheists.

I'm a dyslexic agnostic insomniac who stays up late wondering if there is a dog.


I should introduce you to my cousin - he's a Gay Rosicrucian.
 
2013-05-01 08:47:26 PM  

NostroZ: t3knomanser: wiseolddude: An actual atheist believes in no gods of any kind.

Well, this is where you have to be careful. Thor exists. YHWH exists. Not as physical beings that actually  do things, but as concepts that can be discussed and manipulated. If you are the sort of person who believes thoughts have mystical powers, then the fact that the idea of a deity exists means that the deity  exists in a meaningful way. This means that prayers to that entity can still have power, even though the entity itself is only a fiction.

But working off that line of logic, one cannot rule a being that has SUPREME thought and is therefore a SUPREME being.

An atheists rejects the notion of a G-d, an agnostic states that they simply do not know who/what god is, since there is not enough evidence to say Yes/No with certainty.

I don't think many people who call themselves atheists are truly without a faith that is unsupported by facts.  I think they simply enjoy sticking their nose in the air to whatever they believe 'religious authority' is (typically personal experience with parents or a minister).


I don't recommend speculating about what other people think. it's a good way to confuse yourself, and not much else. When you stop and think about it, it's a mook's game, and has no potential  to benefit you any way, shape, or form - and it might give you a soul-rash on your cosmic consciousness.
 
2013-05-01 10:02:08 PM  

t3knomanser: Rwa2play: Really?!  Do they not realize how hypocritical that label is?!

It's not really hypocritical. Unexpected, perhaps, since atheism  implies some kind of skeptical thinking and that sort of spiritualism isn't exactly the most skeptical standpoint to take.


Atheism in and of itself implies absolutely no skeptical thinking in this day and age unless you live in a profoundly under-educated or pre-industrial area of the world. The idea that atheism without critical thought is somehow evidence of inherent intelligence is one of the most damaging things to an ACTUAL discussion about religion and spirituality. In fact, it's essentially the secular equivalent of "You can't get into Heaven without believing in Jesus as Christ."

To make this perfectly clear: I'm not advocating for religion over atheism or vice versa, I'm advocating critical thought.
 
2013-05-01 10:45:48 PM  
And of course, there's a category that may fit within at least some definitions of paganism that may fit a bit better--the concept of apatheism, that is, "if there are gods, they don't matter because the creator deities pretty much just created stuff and walked off from there because they're too damn big and distant to notice us".

There is a variant of apatheism in some neopagan circles that expands this to "As actual creator deities are relatively unimportant in the big view as we're too tiny to notice, the largest beings of power that would have interest in humans are the "small gods" like Animal Masters and the spirits of a particular area"--assuming, of course, they work with spirits at all in a conventional sense and instead work more with archetypes.  (And yes, for the record--I HAVE heard of chaos magick practitioners working with this in...INTERESTING fashion, like "Invoking Lady Liberty or Columbia (as in the actual traditional symbol of America as depicted on "Liberty" dollars from the 1800s and 1700s) or even the concept of Captain America as an archetype-symbol of a protector spirit of America" sorts of stuff.)

/am apatheist on the Big Creator Deities...don't totally deny the small stuff, though, though I'd argue the question of whether it's "mass psychic background count manifesting" or actual deity may be unimportant and a matter of definition
//then again, I also grew up in certain NARasite circles that (according to most pagan and even a lot of Christian definitions) pretty much explicitly worked in what would be referred to as negative magick, found out rather early that a good ward against that is not believing their "naming and claiming of people" works :D
 
2013-05-02 01:44:03 AM  

Telos: Works for Discworld...


Is it theologically dreadful that Sir Terry Pratchett makes more sense on the subject of gods, belief and 'headology' than any other moralist or philosopher I've read? (And I read a lot of them. I was a divinity student for awhile there.)

On a mildly unrelated topic, I've finally managed to make something close to Nanny Ogg's scumble recipe. I brewed forty gallons of Apfelwein from locally-pressed cider and distilled it into a brandy with a copper-pipe setup. (It's legal in my state, below certain quantities and 'not for sale.') I haven't been able to make it dissolve a spoon, but it is tasty and very strong. I also have my own gray cat, though, being neutered and two-eyed, he is at best only a Roundworld-knockoff Greebo. *sigh*
 
2013-05-02 03:14:52 AM  

skozlaw: t3knomanser: Well, this is where you have to be careful.

No you don't and your argument is silly. The fictional body of work is self-evidently distinct from any supernatural entity.

There is no Thor. Thor cannot have any impact on the world.

There are stories about a character named Thor. People can be inspired by those stories.

There is no confusion here unless, like you've chosen to do, somebody goes waaaaaay out of their way to try and create it.


You mean that movie WASNT a documentary?

I really have been praying to a damn comic book?

curse you stan lee
 
2013-05-02 06:35:04 AM  

Durboloid: Atheist is just something people use as a label.   I don't believe in the supernatural at all.  None of it.  No gods, ghosts, devils or fairies.   If you believe in any of that sort of thing, I will immediately deduct 50 points from my estimation of your I.Q.

Another label people use for me - arrogant, condescending asshole.   Guilty as charged.


The best part of this silly stance is that religious people think exactly the same thing about atheists.

You're all wrong. All of you. Ever.
/Especially you.
 
2013-05-02 10:52:07 AM  

jso2897: I don't think many people who call themselves atheists are truly without a faith that is unsupported by facts. I think they simply enjoy sticking their nose in the air to whatever they believe 'religious authority' is (typically personal experience with parents or a minister).

I don't recommend speculating about what other people think. it's a good way to confuse yourself, and not much else. When you stop and think about it, it's a mook's game, and has no potential to benefit you any way, shape, or form - and it might give you a soul-rash on your cosmic consciousness.


Hmmm... I think you come from an overly individualistic society to place so little emphasis on consideration of other people's motives/thoughts.

While I agree that one can never know what another person is thinking ("every man is an island"), it is the duty of an intelligent person to be able to place themselves in another persons shoes (thoughts / emotions). 

This builds greater understanding.
One reason I do not understand atheists logically, I understand them emotionally (thumbing their nose at authority).  I wholeheartedly understand agnostics, since there are no miracles that I've witnessed in my lifetime.
 
2013-05-02 01:43:26 PM  

t3knomanser: Rwa2play: From what I got, it seems that witches don't believe in one, omniscient supreme being in the universe, but rather many of them.

I have known a number of atheist occultists. They don't believe in gods-as-actual-entities, but gods-as-human-generated-psychic-phenomena. A few even take the stance that gods are simply a thing you invent, as needed (but using/invoking existing gods lets you take advantage of the consensus belief behind them).

It's all very esoteric, and mostly stupid.


And written by White Wolf.
 
2013-05-02 03:28:51 PM  

PirateKing: Some guy claimed that his 'spirit guide' or whatever made him immune to fire and gave him the ability to levitate. So I set his coat on fire and pushed him over a balcony. Not a high balcony, but enough to prove that his abilities were not available on demand. I was not a good Wiccan.


But an entertaining one, from the sound of it.

Rwa2play: See, not to offend any atheists in the thread: but unless you have a 100% explanation as to what happened before the Big Bang and even before that, I can respect your stance, just don't see the logic behind it.


Your notion of "100% explanation" seems a likely root of your difficulty.

NostroZ: I don't think many people who call themselves atheists are truly without a faith that is unsupported by facts.


That facts can give support itself requires tenets of faith (albeit not very interesting ones); see the Münchhausen Trilemma.
Contrariwise, some have creeds that's about that level of trivial.

NostroZ: One reason I do not understand atheists logically, I understand them emotionally (thumbing their nose at authority).


More nearly, it seems to tend to be associated with someone whose response to a claim of authority is nonacceptance -- at least until the claim is validated. The more pushy sort may openly demand it, but there's also the quiet sort who will merely not take the claim seriously.

The thumbing the nose part tends to show up more in the pushy sort, and in particular be directed to claims of authority which are unable to match their socially accorded dominance by demonstrating equal or greater levels of prestige.
 
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