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(Florence Times Daily)   Because nullification worked out so well for the South last time, the Alabama Senate decides to declare all federal gun control laws "null and void" in the state   (timesdaily.com) divider line 80
    More: Asinine, Alabama Senate, gun controls, nullification, Alabama, souths, proposed amendments to the United States Constitution, Alabama Legislature, strict scrutiny  
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1761 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 May 2013 at 9:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 01:37:11 AM  
fta That bill, recommended by the state's School Safety Commission, also needs approval of the House and the governor to become law.

So? It's not like we'd get to see Nancy Pelosi flying an A-10 in at tree-top level, lining up to strafe a convoy of 4x4s with gun racks and CB antennas. That would make for awesome evening news footage. Even if they do pass this thing, it will be quickly resolved by Washington DC guys in grey suits quietly sending a tersely-worded email. Where's the fun in that? That's not the stuff of awesome evening news footage.
 
2013-05-01 08:45:05 AM  
Are they referring to the background check legislation that was filibustered in the Senate with zero chance of passage?

They must spend a lot of time cleaning up puddles of urine in Alabama, because they piss themselves over almost anything.
 
2013-05-01 08:45:49 AM  
I wish when states went all retard and did this, they would reject all the money that DC gives them too.
 
2013-05-01 08:57:08 AM  
Stupid is as stupid does.
 
2013-05-01 09:17:42 AM  
ah, yes - the party of small government once again wastes taxpayer money on unconstitutional political theater.
 
2013-05-01 09:22:21 AM  

Notabunny: It's not like we'd get to see Nancy Pelosi flying an A-10 in at tree-top level, lining up to strafe a convoy of 4x4s with gun racks and CB antennas.


Even if that *DID* happen, all the Alabamans would have to do is cover their trucks with the shoulder humps of wild boars common in that area.  That shiat'll stop even depleted uranium.
 
2013-05-01 09:23:03 AM  
Good luck with that.
 
2013-05-01 09:31:25 AM  
I would move to Alabama to buy machine guns.
 
2013-05-01 09:35:21 AM  
It also states federal laws in violation of the Second Amendment shall be considered null and void in Alabama.

I don't think you need a law to cover that point, Alabama.
 
2013-05-01 10:00:34 AM  

Lucky LaRue: It also states federal laws in violation of the Second Amendment shall be considered null and void in Alabama.

I don't think you need a law to cover that point, Alabama.


Just keep in mind they think the constitution says whatever their top lobbyists say it does.
 
2013-05-01 10:02:12 AM  
Well, if somebody was smart and managed to push this forward, it could become another case of state rights vs federal power.
If the stats gained more power to regulate themselves, it would make the Republicans happy. They could let people buy any gun they wanted, ban homosexuality and gay rights, establish state religions, etc.

And then watch as the population of the country moves around to live in a state with rights and beliefs that the person wants. Talk about increasing the red/blue divide in the country...
 
2013-05-01 10:05:55 AM  

doglover: I would move to Alabama to buy machine guns.


You know, they're doing great things with penile enhancement these days.
 
2013-05-01 10:08:48 AM  

Notabunny: It's not like we'd get to see Nancy Pelosi flying an A-10 in at tree-top level, lining up to strafe a convoy of 4x4s with gun racks and CB antennas.


I would like to see this.
 
2013-05-01 10:11:56 AM  
I'm fine with this. But hey, Alabama? Don't you farking DARE beg the federal government for emergency funds the next time you're whalloped by a tornado outbreak. You either want state's rights or you don't. Pick one because you can't have both.
 
2013-05-01 10:13:11 AM  
We'd be happy to have all those drug cartels move from the northern states of Mexico to a much better business arrangement in Alabama.

I'm sure all they'd want is safe passage and protection by teh Alabama Navy.

If this works out, you and your political friends could open a chain of Burkas and Bullets stores to attract the right sort of well-dressed and fundamentalist religious types.
 
2013-05-01 10:14:11 AM  
Well dumb sister farkers will be dumb sister farkers I guess.
 
2013-05-01 10:14:49 AM  
It's not like the Supreme Court has ruled on whether states can ignore federal laws or federal court opinions numerous times in the past 200 years.
 
2013-05-01 10:15:24 AM  
You know...  judicial review arose out of the first attempt at nullification in U.S. history.  Virginia tried to nullify the alien and sedition acts, and the dispute eventually rose to the Supreme Court, who decided then that it was their job to decide whether federal laws were unconstitutional.

Since that precedent has been in place for 215 years, I'm going to have to assume that in spite of being almost entirely made of lawyers, the Alabama senate knows absolutely jack shiat about anything.  Or to put that more briefly, they're republicans.
 
2013-05-01 10:15:58 AM  
There is an Air Force base about a mile away from the Alabama capitol.  The base also hosts a federal prison. Might come in handy.
 
2013-05-01 10:16:57 AM  
Well, this should be fun.

Whatever happened to that North Carolina proposal, that the Constitution was inapplicable to their state? Bunch of pandering drivel, is what it is.  They know it will be shot down, they will "fight" it, and it will cost them money to advertise about it, talk about it, and fight it in court.  Money that Alabama (and NC for that matter) really could use within their states.

Alabama has a 15.9% poverty rate, NC at 14.3%.  You'd think some of the energy they're expending could go to JOBS.
 
2013-05-01 10:17:57 AM  
Since a shiat ton of federal money controls the lines of communication, transportation, infrastructure and military jobs in the South, I'm sure we'd have no problem kicking Johnny Reb's ass again.
 
2013-05-01 10:19:30 AM  
Commerce clause, man.

While you might be able to get away with this regarding some laws, restricted solely to firearms manufactured and sold in-state (iirc Wyoming's done something like that), you cannot legally throw out basic regulations on anything that crosses state lines... and Alabama doesn't manufacture many firearms, so...
 
2013-05-01 10:20:24 AM  

ikanreed: in spite of being almost entirely made of lawyers, the Alabama senate knows

Actually, they probably all are partners in law firms which could reap a bonanza in fees to defend the law before the US Supreme Court.
What little money that exists in the state treasury would be in better familiar pockets than the people.

 
2013-05-01 10:22:44 AM  

Karma Chameleon: Since a shiat ton of federal money controls the lines of communication, transportation, infrastructure and military jobs in the South, I'm sure we'd have no problem kicking Johnny Reb's ass again.


<Sigh>  We're not gonna have to do that every 150 years, are we? That could get old.
 
2013-05-01 10:23:58 AM  

Karma Chameleon: Since a shiat ton of federal money controls the lines of communication, transportation, infrastructure and military jobs in the South, I'm sure we'd have no problem kicking Johnny Reb's ass again.


Nah, just threaten to take away their toys (military bases) and cut off their allowance (block grants and other Federal monies).

They wouldn't make it a day.
 
2013-05-01 10:25:58 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Commerce clause, man.

While you might be able to get away with this regarding some laws, restricted solely to firearms manufactured and sold in-state (iirc Wyoming's done something like that), you cannot legally throw out basic regulations on anything that crosses state lines... and Alabama doesn't manufacture many firearms, so...


How do you prove that a gun has been manufactured, sold, and possessed solely within a single state?
 
2013-05-01 10:29:11 AM  
they could go the same way as the legal marijuana states. under the 10th amendment, states cannot be coerced to enforce federal law. so, if the feds want to enforce their laws, they'll have to devote federal officers and resources to do ti.
 
2013-05-01 10:31:22 AM  
Please stop helping.
 
2013-05-01 10:34:14 AM  
This will last as long as it takes for a single Federal official to call the governor and remind him that any attempt to undermine federal law will bring a ton of curious eyes to the inner-workings of that state government 'and' automatically end all federal funding going into the state.

And then this bill will die a quiet whimpering death.
 
2013-05-01 10:37:42 AM  

fawlty: they could go the same way as the legal marijuana states. under the 10th amendment, states cannot be coerced to enforce federal law. so, if the feds want to enforce their laws, they'll have to devote federal officers and resources to do ti.


Okay, so they are trying to give the feds a reason to bring in more federal police and investigators?

If they are going to waste their time busting small time pot farms in CA, you can bet they will waste their time enforcing gun laws where the state will not.
 
2013-05-01 10:39:19 AM  

fawlty: they could go the same way as the legal marijuana states. under the 10th amendment, states cannot be coerced to enforce federal law. so, if the feds want to enforce their laws, they'll have to devote federal officers and resources to do ti.


Yep, came here to say the same thing.  Hard to mock the south for doing the same thing the west has been attempting for years.  Though that's not going to stop a lot of people on these boards from doing it; it's not their pet issue.
 
2013-05-01 10:39:23 AM  

PapaChester: fawlty: they could go the same way as the legal marijuana states. under the 10th amendment, states cannot be coerced to enforce federal law. so, if the feds want to enforce their laws, they'll have to devote federal officers and resources to do ti.

Okay, so they are trying to give the feds a reason to bring in more federal police and investigators?

If they are going to waste their time busting small time pot farms in CA, you can bet they will waste their time enforcing gun laws where the state will not.


And look at all the jerbs they just created !!!
 
2013-05-01 10:41:06 AM  
If their basic premise is to throw up their hands and refuse to enforce laws that they don't like, then they can't complain when the federal government hires another fifty thousand officials and disburses them among the southern states.
 
2013-05-01 10:44:19 AM  
Christ, Lincoln should have just let them go.
 
2013-05-01 10:46:06 AM  

Shaggy_C: fawlty: they could go the same way as the legal marijuana states. under the 10th amendment, states cannot be coerced to enforce federal law. so, if the feds want to enforce their laws, they'll have to devote federal officers and resources to do ti.

Yep, came here to say the same thing.  Hard to mock the south for doing the same thing the west has been attempting for years.  Though that's not going to stop a lot of people on these boards from doing it; it's not their pet issue.


I think there's a difference between saying "Hey, feds, we're saying X is legal, so if you want X to be illegal, you have to do the dirty work yourself," and saying "Hey, feds, if you try to enforce laws saying X is illegal, we're going to lock you in jail and throw away the key."
 
2013-05-01 10:47:37 AM  

Serious Black: Jim_Callahan: Commerce clause, man.

While you might be able to get away with this regarding some laws, restricted solely to firearms manufactured and sold in-state (iirc Wyoming's done something like that), you cannot legally throw out basic regulations on anything that crosses state lines... and Alabama doesn't manufacture many firearms, so...

How do you prove that a gun has been manufactured, sold, and possessed solely within a single state?


Compile all relevant information, down to the owner/operator in some central regilstry, maybe?
/Their clever dodge: They've thought it all the way through.
 
2013-05-01 10:51:42 AM  
How about this for a proposal:

Anybody wishing to run for public office needs to pass a course on American Civics before getting their name on the ballot.

And, by that I mean, a very basic high school level course.
 
2013-05-01 10:51:49 AM  

Serious Black: Jim_Callahan: Commerce clause, man.

While you might be able to get away with this regarding some laws, restricted solely to firearms manufactured and sold in-state (iirc Wyoming's done something like that), you cannot legally throw out basic regulations on anything that crosses state lines... and Alabama doesn't manufacture many firearms, so...

How do you prove that a gun has been manufactured, sold, and possessed solely within a single state?


Hmm, well, you'd need to put serial numbers on each gun, then a government-managed database to track the sale of the gun through each transaction. I'm sure the pro-gun lobby would go for that, since that way they'd be free of the federal government trying to.....oh.
 
2013-05-01 10:51:51 AM  
media.tumblr.com
Knows how to solve this problem
 
2013-05-01 10:52:22 AM  

Thats No Moose: Notabunny: It's not like we'd get to see Nancy Pelosi flying an A-10 in at tree-top level, lining up to strafe a convoy of 4x4s with gun racks and CB antennas.

I would like to see this.


I don't have anything better than paint on this laptop or I'd start working on that.
 
2013-05-01 10:53:40 AM  

Serious Black: I think there's a difference between saying "Hey, feds, we're saying X is legal, so if you want X to be illegal, you have to do the dirty work yourself," and saying "Hey, feds, if you try to enforce laws saying X is illegal, we're going to lock you in jail and throw away the key."


I'm not getting that from the article at all.  Though it would be kind of cool to see how Oamba would react to having ATF and FBI agents arrested for trying serve warrants in Alabama.  Think he would go all national guard? Or would he cave?
 
2013-05-01 10:55:59 AM  

FlashHarry: ah, yes - the party of small government once again wastes taxpayer money on unconstitutional political theater.


I clicked "smart" and would have clicked "funny" if it weren't so awfully true.
 
2013-05-01 10:56:03 AM  

Shaggy_C: Serious Black: I think there's a difference between saying "Hey, feds, we're saying X is legal, so if you want X to be illegal, you have to do the dirty work yourself," and saying "Hey, feds, if you try to enforce laws saying X is illegal, we're going to lock you in jail and throw away the key."

I'm not getting that from the article at all.  Though it would be kind of cool to see how Oamba would react to having ATF and FBI agents arrested for trying serve warrants in Alabama.  Think he would go all national guard? Or would he cave?


I don't think it will ever get that far.  This is pure political posturing.
 
2013-05-01 10:56:31 AM  

Dog Welder: How about this for a proposal:

Anybody wishing to run for public office needs to pass a course on American Civics before getting their name on the ballot.

And, by that I mean, a very basic high school level course.


They know full well it'll never go anywhere. Modern Republican politicians are required to grunt disapprovingly in the general direction of the Federal government from time to time, and this is an effective way to do it without accidentally making any real changes.

Like here in NC when they kicked around nullifying the separation of church and state, I thought it was genius - they combined a disapproving grunt towards the Feds with an approving grunt towards Jesus (something else GOPers are required to do from time to time) in one simple guaranteed-to-fail bill.
 
2013-05-01 10:59:44 AM  

Shaggy_C: Serious Black: I think there's a difference between saying "Hey, feds, we're saying X is legal, so if you want X to be illegal, you have to do the dirty work yourself," and saying "Hey, feds, if you try to enforce laws saying X is illegal, we're going to lock you in jail and throw away the key."

I'm not getting that from the article at all.  Though it would be kind of cool to see how Oamba would react to having ATF and FBI agents arrested for trying serve warrants in Alabama.  Think he would go all national guard? Or would he cave?


So how do you stop the feds from enforcing a federal law on land that is part of the jurisdiction of said law?

And my latter statement is absolutely something that some states are trying to do. Last year, Missouri's legislature proposed a bill that would have made it a class A misdemeanor for any US official or employee to even attempt to enforce any provision in ObamaCare. It's not a ridiculous hypothetical like we'll legalize interspecies marriage if we legalize gay marriage. This is something that people are literally pushing for.
 
2013-05-01 11:05:00 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

He's wearing a black armband in memory of President Lincoln, so he's really not in the mood for your bullshiat.
 
2013-05-01 11:05:35 AM  
As said before, this is a bit of bluster, political posturing.  The Feds would only have to hint at 'bama losing its federal aid and they'd cave.
 
2013-05-01 11:06:58 AM  

Serious Black: How do you prove that a gun has been manufactured, sold, and possessed solely within a single state?


1. Whether you can prove it or not, your law has to include language specifying such or it's automatically unconstitutional.

2. Several parts of the action of any given gun are stamped with unique serial numbers, which in most jurisdictions are illegal to file off.  These tell you where the gun was manufactured, and in some cases looking at company records will even tell you where it was assembled and to whom it was initially sold and where.  This is actually the first step in tracing "crime guns" and connecting them to organized crime.

Lunatic Calm: Hmm, well, you'd need to put serial numbers on each gun, then a government-managed database to track the sale of the gun through each transaction. I'm sure the pro-gun lobby would go for that, since that way they'd be free of the federal government trying to.....oh.


Again, this is pretty much de facto how it works now, the only difference is that gun salesmen and manufacturers don't disclose the sale records unless a warrant is presented.  They still  have the records, though, because every business does basic tracking on every product as a matter of logistics.

Even if you paid cash, it's not rocket science to take the call-in check list and narrow it down by time of sale.  It's only considered worth the man-hours if you're talking about a murder weapon at the moment, but since the "is it out-of-state" check is much more trivial than finding out who exactly was the gun's last owner (it's a single phone call) the ATF will be willing to put in the effort much, much more often to check for interstate commerce-based violations.
 
2013-05-01 11:09:16 AM  

Infernalist: As said before, this is a bit of bluster, political posturing.  The Feds would only have to hint at 'bama losing its federal aid and they'd cave.


Just shutting down Maxwell-Gunter AFB, Anniston Army Depot, Fort Rucker, Redstone Arsenal, and the Aviation Training Center should do the trick.
 
2013-05-01 11:10:41 AM  

Skeptos: Christ, Lincoln should have just let them go.


Truly, people ought to have the right to self determination. The south had a functional economy, clear borders, an obviously different culture, and a broadly popular independence movement. Meeting it with anything other than negotiations over precise territorial division and monetary obligations re: lost federal property was monsterous aggression.

Except, you know, as a practical matter the question of slavery was on the table. Lesser evil an all that. It left us with a really shiatty precedent but I'm prepared to mark that down in the "worth it" column.
 
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