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(Washington Post)   NYC elementary school goes full veggie, will offer nothing but tofu wraps and bean everything dishes for your soon to be "growth stunted" kids   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 230
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5275 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2013 at 1:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 07:43:04 AM
Might be a good way to keep the little shiats alert in the afternoon. Midday meat makes people sleepy.
 
2013-05-01 07:43:46 AM

wildcardjack: My friend the Skeptic RD is gonna love this one. You're going to find all those kids that have soy allergies in a hurry.


Just started browsing your link as well, it is pretty interesting and lines up pretty well from what I've learned in the last few years.
 
2013-05-01 07:44:08 AM
Life is suffering, death is inevitable, and changing what you eat will not stop this.
 
2013-05-01 07:46:32 AM

moothemagiccow: Life is suffering, death is inevitable, and changing what you eat will not stop this.


I don't think immortality is the goal.
 
2013-05-01 07:57:46 AM
The kids will be happy to go from healthy to hipster.
 
2013-05-01 08:00:22 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: ongbok: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: ongbok: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fun Dumpster: I'll stay away from the normal meat vs veggie derp, but I'd be curious to see how this public school manages to maintain this when school budgets in New York are already stretched to the breaking point.  Where are they finding the funding to continuously bring in the full veggie menu.  What quality of produce do they intend to use?  I understand that there may be some economy of scale at play, but how are they able to make a nutritionally viable meal on the traditionally meager budget assigned to school lunches?

I'm assuming they're going to be using a lot of refined grains and processed soy instead of fresh, local, seasonal produce. Which is a shame, if true.

What school cafeteria uses fresh, local seasonal produce now? They will use Sysco or Aramark products like every other school district.

Then why eliminate meat at all f you're just going to replace it with less healthy alternatives?

Just because it isn't fresh locally grown produce doesn't mean that it is unhealthy. That giant can of green beans may not be as healthy as fresh green beans, but they will provide the necessary nutrients and isn't unhealthy. Plus providing them with a meat free lunch will probably give them more energy in the afternoon and they will have less of the itis than if they were eating meat.

actually, no... that is not correct. the process of canning/cooking destroys some essential nutrients as well as other good things within the fruit/vegetable in question. there are actually very few vegetables that benefit from cooking (from a nutritional standpoint), and green beans is not one of them. fresh is almost always better, but generally unpalatable to the general population.


So you are just repeating what I just said. That canned vegetables may not be as healthy as fresh ones, but they are not unhealthy.
 
2013-05-01 08:06:50 AM

DerAppie: Abacus9: One of my old friends was vegetarian from the time he was 6 years old. He would always try to get me to try different vegetarian dishes that substituted something for meat, claiming "it tastes just like meat, dude!". I came to the conclusion that after awhile, vegetarians completely forget what meat tastes like. Of course, the guy eats nothing BUT meat these days.
/end CSB

I think that artificial meat substitute is the worst disservice anyone has ever done to vegetarianism as a whole. Instead of thinking of people choosing to eat nice vegetable dishes people now think of vegetarians as people who eat bland pseudo-meat along with equally bland meals.


I'm with you on that one.  Veggies can be mighty tasty, if prepared well.  No need to pretend that they're meat.  I'd rather throw some pepper and onion skewers on a grill than that any of that Boca Burger nonsense.
 
2013-05-01 08:10:32 AM

Gyrfalcon: The problem with a proper vegetarian diet is that 99.5% of elementary school kids wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot hot dog. All this means is more school lunches in the trash can, and more kids eating Extra-Spicy Cheetohs and Gatorade for lunch. But hey, keep on trying to promote those healthful eating habits.


Yeah, I've got to think that this is the end game.
 
2013-05-01 08:15:21 AM
Another example of the minority dictating to the majority......WAKE the FARK up people......or in 10 years we'll all be malnourished fake cheese/fake meat/ fake everything eating liberals!!!

//and we'll all be either gay or bi
 
2013-05-01 08:15:32 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Don't like the school's menu? Send your kid to school with his lunch (a sloppy joe, hamburger, hot dogs).

/and don't forget the occasional PBJ to thin the herd


THIS
 
2013-05-01 08:20:49 AM
who gives a shiat, it's NYC
 
2013-05-01 08:27:38 AM
I hate vegetables with a fiery passion that will never die. Always have. My diet consists of mostly breakfast cereal, pizza, and cheeseburgers.

That said, I can't remember ever having meat in a school lunch in all my years.

Not sure if I had a point to make.

Nope. No, I did not.
 
2013-05-01 08:29:00 AM

doglover: The problem with the proper vegetarian diet isn't that it lacks in any way the necessities of life. And skipping meat once a day never hurt anyone.

The main problem, and the reason vegans should be unwelcome in your home, even as emissaries of a friendly king, is that VEGETABLES ARE NOT MEAT AND YOU CAN'T SUBSTITUTE THEM FOR IT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU STUPID farkING ASSHOLES!


Cool Trolling, Bro! *thumbsupsmilie*
 
2013-05-01 08:29:15 AM

FDR Jones: I hate vegetables with a fiery passion that will never die. Always have. My diet consists of mostly breakfast cereal, pizza, and cheeseburgers.


Damn man, doesn't your colon hurt?
 
2013-05-01 08:36:58 AM
SOAPBOX WARNING:

I'm not going to get too much into the debate of vegetarian vs meat, because i am an omnivore and i do eat meat, but from an anthropological look on hunter-gatherer (forager) peoples of the ancient past, and even the very few remaining forager peoples that have survived to today's modern world, there is a radical difference in the diets based on cultural roles.

Traditionally, while all members of the society ate meat, nuts, berries, plants, etc, the ratio of these meals were based primarily on the roles of the individuals in the village.

The following statistics are based from memory and from anthropological agriculture classes taken over ten years ago, so take this info as you will, but the numbers shouldn't be too off... Also keep in mind this is before agriculture, more than 10,000 years ago, and before people herded animals or planted crops...

Roll - meal ratio:
Hunter/Warrior - 50% meat, 20% Root, 10% Fruit, 10% Leaf, 10% Other (Veg, Bean, Bugs, Nuts, etc)
Gatherer - 30% Nuts, 20% Fruit, 20% Root, 10% Leaf, 10% Meat, 10% Other
Children over 5 - Similar to gatherer, as they performed that role with the mothers
Children under 5 - Mostly Fruit and Mother's Milk (If i remember correctly they didn't ween for quite some time)
Crafters - Similar numbers to gatherers but i believe they had a higher nut intake
Elderly - Similar to gatherers but with more plants and less nuts and meat

So diet was based mostly on activity level. Those who had a higher level of activity would need more protein. But those with less active lives required less protein. Hunters back then may have walked/ran 20 miles a day to procure food, so when they returned, they got the biggest portion of the bounty. In Europe and N America, the main diet for the gatherers was acorn. Acorn was so plenty, that it was the main staple for most primitive Europeans, N Americans, and Eastern Russian areas...

From an anthropological point, homo sapiens have been around 100,000 years or so, agriculture has only been around for about 10,000 years, so 90% of human evolution is based around an environment of foraging. For about 9,900 we had agriculture that had some very basic technology and still required a high level of energy to maintain, from animal husbandry, to crop maintenance, roles changed, and meat became a resource for the wealthy, so to supplement protein needs, legumes were the primary source of protein for the poor.

The issue with obesity in American and parts of Europe today isn't with "meat" or "grains" or even "carbs", the problem is with refinement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sugar cane, but when a green fibrous plant is refined to a white powder, it is far away from the whole plant, which is what our ancestors ate. A hamburger might be meat, but it has been pre-chewed by machinery hundreds of times over (and laden with other stuff [pink slurry?]) that it is easier for our bodies to absorb and is far away from steak. Flour has gone from being protein and fiber rich, to being processed down to again, a pure white powder. The typical Western diet in the last 100 years has become calorie dense and nutritionally deficient. The human body knows what it needs to live, and when it is deprived of that, it tells the brain to eat more so it can get that, but since western foods are more caloric dense than ancient foods or even traditional foods of the East, then the ratio of calories to nutrition is horribly unbalanced. Our bodies are starving for nutrition, but we instead feed it more calories... And in the last 50 years, Western jobs and lifestyles are transitioning to sedentary far more than in the past.

Soapbox advice: Take some cues from our ancestors, eat according to your activity level. If you have high activity, then you probably don't need to worry about processed foods or how much meat you eat, but if you work in an office behind a desk for 8+ hours a day, then you should seriously consider making 80% or more of your diet whole plants. Whole plants being non-refined, non-factory processed fruits, veggies, legumes, and nuts. An inactive body only needs something like 9% protein daily intake, but eating 50% meat also means eating more calories than your are expending... and refined sugars, refined carbs, and even refined meat means you are taking in WAY more calories than you are putting out...
 
2013-05-01 08:45:12 AM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-05-01 08:53:41 AM

ongbok: My lunches during the week consist mostly of vegetables, beans or pasta and fruit. I rarely ever eat meat during the week for lunch. I have found that since doing this for lunch I have more energy after lunch than I did when I would eat meat at lunch and don't get the groggy feeling after lunch that I used to get.


You sure you didn't cut out processed carbs?  I rarely eat carbs and if I eat a lot of them, it's certain to bring on an insulin spike and trigger sleepy time.  A piece of fruit like an apple won't have the same effect.
 
2013-05-01 08:56:20 AM
a. A quesadilla is not fried cheese. It is a tortilla you put stuff in (cheese and vegetables if you are a vegetarian) and cook in a pan. No oil or frying is required.

b. Sounds like they will save an assload of money by not buying meat.

c. IF you keep offering foods to kids, they will eventually try some of them. Also, really vegetarian food isn't kid friendly? Peanut butter and jelly? Scrambled eggs? Carrots and celery? Spaghetti? (without meat) Those little sticks of cheese and those (teribble and unhealthy) packets of drinkable yogurt? Crackers, rice cereal? Other than chicken nuggets and hot dogs what meats do kids particularly love????

I eat [a little] meat every day, but I get more protein from the yogurt I eat.
 
2013-05-01 08:58:56 AM
The methane levels at that school will be off the chart!
 
2013-05-01 09:00:22 AM

HotWingConspiracy: FDR Jones: I hate vegetables with a fiery passion that will never die. Always have. My diet consists of mostly breakfast cereal, pizza, and cheeseburgers.

Damn man, doesn't your colon hurt?


Nah man, I'm good. Iron constitution.
 
2013-05-01 09:02:24 AM

Slartibartfaster: doglover: The problem with the proper vegetarian diet isn't that it lacks in any way the necessities of life. And skipping meat once a day never hurt anyone.

The main problem, and the reason vegans should be unwelcome in your home, even as emissaries of a friendly king, is that VEGETABLES ARE NOT MEAT AND YOU CAN'T SUBSTITUTE THEM FOR IT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU STUPID farkING ASSHOLES!

True (not really)

I cannot tell you how much I really really enjoyed tasting a local meat.
Golden retriever, kinda salty but very tender

// tasty tasty dog meat, mmm I love it
/ for reference yes you can substitute meat with vegetables, most of the world populations are vegetarian you farking ignorant dickwad


No, you can't properly substitute vegetables for meat.
Tofurky is farking disgusting. If I want meat, I eat meat. If I want to eat vegetables I eat them. And if I'm not grilling or roasting them I tend to seek out recipes that play them up. Curry sets off vegetables wonderfully.
Steaming vegetables is boring.
 
2013-05-01 09:10:55 AM
So meat is so bad now, it cannot even be offered to the kids as an alternative to the vegetables?  Having an veggie option is one thing, but banning meat completely is ridiculous.
 
2013-05-01 09:11:14 AM

FDR Jones: HotWingConspiracy: FDR Jones: I hate vegetables with a fiery passion that will never die. Always have. My diet consists of mostly breakfast cereal, pizza, and cheeseburgers.

Damn man, doesn't your colon hurt?

Nah man, I'm good. Iron constitution.


how often do you get to poop? once a week? i bet it's once a week and when you finally get to, you have to hold the handle bars and give birth to a several pound poop baby...
 
2013-05-01 09:11:53 AM

SlothB77: So meat is so bad now, it cannot even be offered to the kids as an alternative to the vegetables?  Having an veggie option is one thing, but banning meat completely is ridiculous.


have you seen the quality of "meat" in schools? i'm thinking this isn't a bad thing...
 
2013-05-01 09:14:54 AM
Principal Robert Groff said Tuesday the kids gravitated toward veggie offerings.

That is 100% bull farking shiat.
 
2013-05-01 09:17:35 AM

CeroX: have you seen the quality of "meat" in schools? i'm thinking this isn't a bad thing...


meh, stuff like the chicken fingers are usually solid.
 
2013-05-01 09:20:17 AM

CeroX: FDR Jones: HotWingConspiracy: FDR Jones: I hate vegetables with a fiery passion that will never die. Always have. My diet consists of mostly breakfast cereal, pizza, and cheeseburgers.

Damn man, doesn't your colon hurt?

Nah man, I'm good. Iron constitution.

how often do you get to poop? once a week? i bet it's once a week and when you finally get to, you have to hold the handle bars and give birth to a several pound poop baby...


I forgot to mention all the coca cola I drink... A liter or two of that stuff flushes you right out
 
2013-05-01 09:30:39 AM
just another reason to move to NYC.  cheaper than buying estrogen shots for your sons so they turn out gay
 
2013-05-01 09:33:22 AM
They should make those kids have a garden, and grow their own food.  If they want meat, then they have to cut the cows throat!

/fur is murder!
 
2013-05-01 09:41:06 AM

SlothB77: CeroX: have you seen the quality of "meat" in schools? i'm thinking this isn't a bad thing...

meh, stuff like the chicken fingers are usually solid.


If by "solid" you mean "like a breaded sponge", then I agree.
 
2013-05-01 09:42:43 AM

90supraT: Gyrfalcon: doglover: The problem with the proper vegetarian diet isn't that it lacks in any way the necessities of life. And skipping meat once a day never hurt anyone.

The main problem, and the reason vegans should be unwelcome in your home, even as emissaries of a friendly king, is that VEGETABLES ARE NOT MEAT AND YOU CAN'T SUBSTITUTE THEM FOR IT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU STUPID farkING ASSHOLES!

The problem with a proper vegetarian diet is that 99.5% of elementary school kids wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot hot dog. All this means is more school lunches in the trash can, and more kids eating Extra-Spicy Cheetohs and Gatorade for lunch. But hey, keep on trying to promote those healthful eating habits.

Well fark, kids these days could stand to miss a meal. And kids will eat healthy if that is the option, they will not (more than likely) starve themselves. And it's not like those things taste gross, its just not processed shiat.


with the recession being what it is I certainly hope it's not their only meal. it's possible these days.
 
2013-05-01 09:44:35 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Don't like the school's menu? Send your kid to school with his lunch (a sloppy joe, hamburger, hot dogs).

/and don't forget the occasional PBJ to thin the herd


Yep.  If you depend on the government to feed your kids you have failed.
 
2013-05-01 09:45:41 AM

SlothB77: CeroX: have you seen the quality of "meat" in schools? i'm thinking this isn't a bad thing...

meh, stuff like the chicken fingers are usually solid.


except they are fried in hydrogenated oils...

I mean i hate to be the debbie downer here, but schools are required by federal regulations to provide a minimum amount of calories (although there is a bill that is in the works to alter meals towards better nutrition, instead of calorie count or pyramids), and unfortunately this means that cheaper, more caloric dense foods tend to get put on the menu over healthier and nutrient rich foods. And thanks to the fast food lobbies and potato farmer lobbies, garbage like pizza sauce and french fries are now considered vegetables in school lunches because the guidelines focus more on "building blocks" rather than nutrition. The proposal in washington is getting a lot push back from big food lobbies because it focuses on providing kids with better quality nutrition over the current guidelines. School Lunches are BIG business to food companies, and this act threatens their profit margins, so you will likely see a crap ton of underhanded studies and reports about stuff going on soon if this thing gets through congress...
 
2013-05-01 09:46:13 AM

wildcardjack: My friend the Skeptic RD is gonna love this one. You're going to find all those kids that have soy allergies in a hurry.

Actually, they could being going with Textured Soy Protein and MSG to make meat substitute. Just about as bad as you can get. I can put together vegetarian diets that'll pack on the fat.

The healthiest thing would be to cut the starches and go with lean meats. Less processed foods are my favorite thing, a via negativa approach.


I'm consuming your link and forwarding it to my dad. Thank you.
 
2013-05-01 09:52:05 AM
Not a bad idea, especially given the grade of meat that is sold to public schools.  Trust me, it's generally just a cut below dog food.
 
2013-05-01 10:18:02 AM

ZeroPly: Benevolent Misanthrope: OK, all you folks who say how this is great, and vegetarianism doesn't mean they won't get complete proteins...

This is the US Public Education system.  These people think ketchup is a farking vegetable.  They fire people for making more nutritious meals that don't follow the rules of buying pre-processed food from approved suppliers.  Do you really think they are capable of combining foods properly for proper nutrition now?  How do you think they're going to do with vegetarianism?

1. About a million eyes are watching them right now, waiting for them to make a mistake.
2. See #1.


this is not the first time this has been done.  http://www.parentdish.com/2009/08/26/more-school-lunches-going-vegeta r ian/

hopefully people won't be as retarded about protein as the intentional trolls in the thread, but you never know.
 
2013-05-01 10:27:25 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: just another reason to move to NYC.  cheaper than buying estrogen shots for your sons so they turn out gay


I hate to feed the troll but...

Why then are so many red blooded 'real muricans'  having so many homosexual sons and daughters then? One would assume that in their households they serve lots of meat and soy is considered a bad word.
 
2013-05-01 10:27:58 AM
To everyone saying "so what if they miss meat at one meal," what about the kids on free lunches? When I was little, there were a few who pretty much counted on school lunch as their only good meal of the day. Of course, this was down south. Everyone knows only southerners are poor.
 
2013-05-01 10:29:08 AM
*cough*
Money problems
*cough*

Meat is expensive comparatively...I smell a budget issue under the guise of "nutritional."
 
2013-05-01 10:43:50 AM
"Principal Robert Groff said Tuesday the kids gravitated toward veggie offerings, including black beans and cheddar quesadillas served with salsa and roasted potatoes."

I call bullshiat on that statement.  As would anyone who has ever met a child.
 
2013-05-01 10:47:38 AM

kitsuneymg: To everyone saying "so what if they miss meat at one meal," what about the kids on free lunches? When I was little, there were a few who pretty much counted on school lunch as their only good meal of the day. Of course, this was down south. Everyone knows only southerners are poor.


And then there are the kids with health nut parents, who have to rely on contraband outside food as their only source of protein, fat, calcium and calories:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/a-vegan-tale/
 
2013-05-01 10:58:55 AM
The problem with this isnt the concept, itl be the execution, the schools gonna wind up serving them a cheese quesedilla with a side of canned corn and tater tots. Because this is america and corn and potatoes are vegetables damnit.
 
2013-05-01 11:18:44 AM
Well... I didn't think about this earlier... What are the demographics? Is this a hipster thing?

P.S. 244 Richard R Green

Pertinent points
96% black
73% eligible for free lunch
10% eligible for reduced lunch.
 
2013-05-01 11:26:46 AM

bindlestiff2600: Eating such enormous quantities of animal proteins has a profound effect on human behaviour. Generally in nature carnivorous animals are fierce and aggressive, while non-carnivorous ones are peaceful and sociable. Another thing that can easily be seen is the gradual reduction in aggression in human beings as they move from a diet containing large amounts of meat towards one excluding high protein foods, especially meat. It is also well known that dogs, although carnivorous in nature, keep guard and attack strangers more effectively if they are fed larger than normal meat rations. Similarly, in wartime, when men are to take part in highly risky military action, they have to be given large meat rations, so that the meat is used as a drug to develop aggression, violence and moral insensitivity.


Holy hell this is a pile.

1)  What study shows eating meat makes humans aggressive?

2)  Carnivores are aggressive because they kill and eat things; herbivores can't get that much energy that fast to hunt, and generally have more of a need to survive than to eat.  Fighting and winning requires the ability to kill a predator reliably, which is a huge energy sink to maintain; this is a win if you can eat it, but if not then you're just burning energy fighting and healing (yeah you're gonna get bit/scratched/cut) and also risking injury or death, when you could just run the hell away.

3)  I've never seen this behavior in humans, becoming less aggressive as they move to vegetables.  Vegans are less physical to begin with; but I've seen rather aggressive vegans and vegetarians.  Violence is semi-decoupled from aggression, and seems to not correlate either.

4)  It's well-known feeding dogs raw meat doesn't make them aggressive--this is a common-held myth that has been explored.  Meat is higher energy density, thus higher value.  Give your dog a chunk of meat and he'll be a LOT more protective of it than if you give him a bowl of kibble.

5)  Meat, fat, etc are high-energy foods, thus take less room to store and are easier to ship.  Perfect wartime food.
 
2013-05-01 11:28:32 AM

wildcardjack: Well... I didn't think about this earlier... What are the demographics? Is this a hipster thing?

P.S. 244 Richard R Green

Pertinent points
96% black
73% eligible for free lunch
10% eligible for reduced lunch.


Further supporting my hypothesis of money problems.
 
2013-05-01 11:29:26 AM

painless42: For this to be an actual debate on the merits of a vegetarian achool lunch, you must first presuppose that the hamburgers, pepperoni pizza and beef tacos served in the traditional public school hot lunch contain meat.... from actual cows and pigs..... having eaten that for 12 years, I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far out on a limb.


I wouldn't disagree with you.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-01 11:43:15 AM
Lol, I'd send my kids to school every day with smoked pork chops or smoked chicken so that as soon as they opened their lunch boxes everyone in there would be smelling it and drooling.  Then we'd set up a barter system.
 
2013-05-01 11:47:55 AM

kitsuneymg: To everyone saying "so what if they miss meat at one meal," what about the kids on free lunches? When I was little, there were a few who pretty much counted on school lunch as their only good meal of the day. Of course, this was down south. Everyone knows only southerners are poor.


Meat doesn't provide anything that can't be provided by lacto-ovo diet, which is what is being provided. So there's no danger of malnutrition besides the whole "not getting food at home" part.
 
2013-05-01 11:54:57 AM
Kids won't eat it if it tastes like shiat.

That is all.
 
2013-05-01 11:59:27 AM

RodneyToady: Yes, because if you're not eating meat at every single meal, you're going to stunt your growth.


www.shelterpub.com

www.ecorazzi.com

veggietestimonial.peta.org

I look forward to you FARKers making "wimpy vegetarian" jokes to any of these guys' faces.
 
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