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(Fox News)   FDA approves OTC morning-after pill   (foxnews.com) divider line 915
    More: News, FDA, Center for Reproductive Rights, morning-after pills, effective methods, counters, Nancy Northup  
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9092 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 7:42 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 11:10:51 PM

serpent_sky: hardinparamedic: That's the point you're missing, though. It's not about you, or the man. It's about the offspring you created, and what's best for it.

Sorry, that's the woman who chose to have said offspring's problem to solve. With choice comes responsibility.  We are lucky to have that choice, but if we make a choice that is difficult, well, we have to pick up the slack.

Why should a man be forced to pay for the choice the woman made? Why should he be forced to contribute to a world/life he has -- and wants -- nothing to do with, often at the expense of his actual, current life of his own choice and making?


For the Children. Obviously. It's ok to throw people in thrall for 20 years because that might be the next Jesus =p
 
2013-04-30 11:15:49 PM

Shaggy_C: A lot of pissed off would-be deadbeat dads in this thread. Moral of the story: don't fark anyone you either a) wouldn't be willing to have a kid with or b) couldn't convince to morning after/abort if necessary. I know it's so passé in this day and age to accept there are consequences for your actions but sadly real life isn't a ke$ha song.


Not a pissed off would be dad.  I am a dad.  Father.  Whatever the AP would call it under their new stylebook.  Why should party 1 be able to bind party 2 to a contract that party 1 can bow out of at any time if it is not in party 1's best interest?  I am all for pro choice as long as both parties get one.  You want it, keep it.  You pay for it.  You folks are all for fair share as long as it doesn't affect you.  Or you can deduct it.
 
2013-04-30 11:16:50 PM

Shaggy_C: red5ish: Less unwanted pregnancies. Less abortions. I don't see a downside to this.

Morning after is abortion.


No, it's not.

Plan B makes it difficult for the egg to attach.

The egg doesn't attach to the uterine wall, so no pregnancy. No pregnancy = impossible to have an abortion.

It can take more than 48 hours for a fertilized egg to attach.
 
2013-04-30 11:17:13 PM

phillistine: I am all for pro choice as long as both parties get one.


They do. Whether or not to consent to sex.
 
2013-04-30 11:17:28 PM

TomD9938: I wonder who we will have lost.


We lose a potential person every time a woman has her period. You must be for forced pregnancy.
 
2013-04-30 11:19:15 PM
To be honest for the people reading this thinking im a prick or an mra let me put it like this.

I love women. I just dont want my childeren taken from me.
birth control for everyone that wants it. Its only the right thing to do.

but please ladies stop the persecution complex. Your are not discriminated against in north america in this day and age.
like I said. Male vs female is a farked up attitude.

so is getting knocked up and holding a mans feet to the fire for money because its easier than getting a job.

anyone reading this should know that feminist or mra.
they dont have your best interest at heart. They care more about a false principal than anything tangible
 
2013-04-30 11:20:25 PM
Sweet. I'm gonna go f*ck a teenager.
 
2013-04-30 11:20:54 PM
I am a pro-life atheist (no, that's not an oxymoron) and I still have no problem with this. The very basic function of the morning after pill is to prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall, effectively preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. It does not terminate an established pregnancy. Based on those terms, it's technically a contraceptive.
 
2013-04-30 11:21:39 PM
I say we start placing blame. It's the American way.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-30 11:22:42 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: phillistine: I am all for pro choice as long as both parties get one.

They do. Whether or not to consent to sex.


Talking about after and your know it or you're just being obtuse.
 
2013-04-30 11:22:43 PM

Shaggy_C: red5ish: Less unwanted pregnancies. Less abortions. I don't see a downside to this.

Morning after is abortion.


I agree.  This quibbling over placental attachment is cowardly nonsense.  A fertilized egg contains the DNA of a unique human being.  Plan B is to kill it before it becomes too troublesome.  Deal with that.
 
2013-04-30 11:22:57 PM

gh0strid3r: I am a pro-life atheist (no, that's not an oxymoron) and I still have no problem with this. The very basic function of the morning after pill is to prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall, effectively preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. It does not terminate an established pregnancy. Based on those terms, it's technically a contraceptive.


If one belives in condoms than they have to belive in the morning after pill. Its the same damned thing
 
2013-04-30 11:23:15 PM

megarian: Shaggy_C: red5ish: Less unwanted pregnancies. Less abortions. I don't see a downside to this.

Morning after is abortion.

No, it's not.

Plan B makes it difficult for the egg to attach.

The egg doesn't attach to the uterine wall, so no pregnancy. No pregnancy = impossible to have an abortion.

It can take more than 48 hours for a fertilized egg to attach.


I think it's actually meant to prevent ovulation or interfere with fertilization. Interfering with uterine attachment is another potential outcome but I think it is meant to do one of those first two

http://women.webmd.com/guide/plan-b
 
2013-04-30 11:23:16 PM
Well this is yet another issue with plenty of stupidity on both sides.
 
2013-04-30 11:24:33 PM
Is it free?

i164.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-30 11:24:46 PM
Another reason to be glad I only made boys.
 
2013-04-30 11:25:32 PM

skullkrusher: megarian: Shaggy_C: red5ish: Less unwanted pregnancies. Less abortions. I don't see a downside to this.

Morning after is abortion.

No, it's not.

Plan B makes it difficult for the egg to attach.

The egg doesn't attach to the uterine wall, so no pregnancy. No pregnancy = impossible to have an abortion.

It can take more than 48 hours for a fertilized egg to attach.

I think it's actually meant to prevent ovulation or interfere with fertilization. Interfering with uterine attachment is another potential outcome but I think it is meant to do one of those first two

http://women.webmd.com/guide/plan-b


Thanks. Way better information than what I had, apparently.
 
2013-04-30 11:25:33 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: They do. Whether or not to consent to sex.


Isn't that a pillar of abstinence-only "sex education"?
 
2013-04-30 11:26:06 PM

gh0strid3r: I am a pro-life atheist (no, that's not an oxymoron) and I still have no problem with this. The very basic function of the morning after pill is to prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall, effectively preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. It does not terminate an established pregnancy. Based on those terms, it's technically a contraceptive.


since the egg is fertilized prior to making its way to the uterus, isn't preventing uterine attachment is abortion? Granted you're not actually pregnant until the zygote attaches but you are still destroying the fertilized egg by preventing the attachment
 
2013-04-30 11:26:15 PM

hardinparamedic: That's the point you're missing, though. It's not about you, or the man. It's about the offspring you created, and what's best for it.


If you're so concerned about what's best for the child, then why is the woman permitted to abort it in the first place? Why is it fair to the child that it can be destroyed for the sake of a woman, in effect, avoiding 9 months of discomfort?
 
2013-04-30 11:28:33 PM

trialpha: hardinparamedic: That's the point you're missing, though. It's not about you, or the man. It's about the offspring you created, and what's best for it.

If you're so concerned about what's best for the child, then why is the woman permitted to abort it in the first place? Why is it fair to the child that it can be destroyed for the sake of a woman, in effect, avoiding 9 months of discomfort?



Depends on what point in the process you consider it to have become a child.

(Be prepared to support your answer...)
 
2013-04-30 11:29:51 PM

kronicfeld: Popcorn Johnny: Parents have the right to know what their kids are doing.

Which is why all other consumer transactions involving minors require parental consent?


I'm (and I hate myself for saying this) actually on the fundie side with this one. The pill does actually alter your hormones. If you're using any type of hormonal BC, you need an adult explaining to you exactly what it's going to do.

'Course, we could solve that problem with  realistic sex ed, but noo, it's 'Murika, Land of the Uneducated Free!
 
2013-04-30 11:29:51 PM

phillistine: Talking about after and your know it or you're just being obtuse.


It's very simple. Do men get pregnant after? No. Yes, woman get an extra choice because women have the extra responsibility of pregnancy. There is nothing unequal about that. I know you understand this. I think most men, even the most hardened MRA that have made an appearance in this thread, understand this. They just don't like it. It seems unfair. Well sh*t, deal with it, because there is nothing unfair about it.
 
2013-04-30 11:30:41 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: To be honest for the people reading this thinking im a prick or an mra let me put it like this.

I love women. I just dont want my childeren taken from me.
birth control for everyone that wants it. Its only the right thing to do.

but please ladies stop the persecution complex. Your are not discriminated against in north america in this day and age.
like I said. Male vs female is a farked up attitude.

so is getting knocked up and holding a mans feet to the fire for money because its easier than getting a job.

anyone reading this should know that feminist or mra.
they dont have your best interest at heart. They care more about a false principal than anything tangible


I have a question and I absolutely mean no snark:

What do you make of the pay gap between men and women at similar/identical jobs? I know it's a closing gap and not all-encompassing, but I'm just curious about your take on it. Thanks.
 
2013-04-30 11:31:02 PM

skullkrusher: gh0strid3r: I am a pro-life atheist (no, that's not an oxymoron) and I still have no problem with this. The very basic function of the morning after pill is to prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall, effectively preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. It does not terminate an established pregnancy. Based on those terms, it's technically a contraceptive.

since the egg is fertilized prior to making its way to the uterus, isn't preventing uterine attachment is abortion? Granted you're not actually pregnant until the zygote attaches but you are still destroying the fertilized egg by preventing the attachment


I think you just answered your own question. Fertilized eggs only have a small chance of attaching even without the morning after pill.
 
2013-04-30 11:31:46 PM

PsiChick: If you're using any type of hormonal BC, you need an adult a doctor explaining to you exactly what it's going to do.


Let's be sure it's someone who is actually qualified to explain such things.
 
2013-04-30 11:32:13 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: gh0strid3r: I am a pro-life atheist (no, that's not an oxymoron) and I still have no problem with this. The very basic function of the morning after pill is to prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall, effectively preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. It does not terminate an established pregnancy. Based on those terms, it's technically a contraceptive.

If one belives in condoms than they have to belive in the morning after pill. Its the same damned thing


exactly
 
2013-04-30 11:32:15 PM

PsiChick: kronicfeld: Popcorn Johnny: Parents have the right to know what their kids are doing.

Which is why all other consumer transactions involving minors require parental consent?

I'm (and I hate myself for saying this) actually on the fundie side with this one. The pill does actually alter your hormones. If you're using any type of hormonal BC, you need an adult explaining to you exactly what it's going to do.

'Course, we could solve that problem with  realistic sex ed, but noo, it's 'Murika, Land of the Uneducated Free!


I still don't think a 13 year old is qualified to make decisions about what hormones she is gonna take even with the best sex ed evar.
 
2013-04-30 11:32:37 PM

trialpha: hardinparamedic: That's the point you're missing, though. It's not about you, or the man. It's about the offspring you created, and what's best for it.

If you're so concerned about what's best for the child, then why is the woman permitted to abort it in the first place? Why is it fair to the child that it can be destroyed for the sake of a woman, in effect, avoiding 9 months of discomfort?


Fertilized eggs are children now.
 
2013-04-30 11:34:39 PM

PsiChick: kronicfeld: Popcorn Johnny: Parents have the right to know what their kids are doing.

Which is why all other consumer transactions involving minors require parental consent?

I'm (and I hate myself for saying this) actually on the fundie side with this one. The pill does actually alter your hormones. If you're using any type of hormonal BC, you need an adult explaining to you exactly what it's going to do.

'Course, we could solve that problem with  realistic sex ed, but noo, it's 'Murika, Land of the Uneducated Free!


I said it before. And though I only oberved 1 woman use it.
it made her violently ill. For 48 hours. So people of the opinion that it gives women the ability to have unprotected sex as they please are WRONG. It is a very massive dose of hormone.

no woman is gonna take up the morning after pill in leiu of actual birth control. Why would they?

besides that what business is it of your what someone else does with their body? or puts in it?

the answer is none
 
2013-04-30 11:34:46 PM

trialpha: BarkingUnicorn: trialpha: Infernalist: trialpha: hardinparamedic: Because our society has deemed it unacceptable that a man can force a woman to undergo an invasive and physically and emotionally taxing procedure against her will.

This is the correct decision, and I doubt many are arguing against it.

But it raises the question - why is it then acceptable for the women (by nature of her decision to keep the child) to force a man to pay 18 years of child support (depending on the man's circumstances, physically and emotionally taxing) against his will?

Do we have a fair alternative to this?

Someone already mentioned the only fair alternative I've ever heard - that the man be given, up until a point, the ability to forfeit all parental rights / affiliation with the child. Details would likely get ugly - I would imagine the best way would be to not list him on the birth certificate at all, but that would mess up medical histories, etc.


Now, would this be good for society? Arguably no, but it is required for fairness. If you allow fairness to be dismissed for "the greater good", you open up bad arguments like "it's better for society for women to stay home and not work, thus they should not be permitted to work"

You are totally ignoring what's fair to the child.

Of course I am - it loses by nature of not being born. Otherwise, if you add it as a factor, then you're forced to ask why the woman is allowed to abort it at all - after all, that's not exactly fair to it.

If you want to consider all three parties, then perhaps the only fair scenario (sci-fi) would be this:

- The woman may, by nature of not being forced to carry an err... parasite if you will, inside of her, transfer it to a gestation tube
- The child will then be born, and raised by the state
- Both parents are then forced to pay child support to the state for 18 years.


Um, I'm not sure who said what, but this entire post has been about parental rights, affiliation with the child, birth certificates, and not a word about abortion.

So your solution is basically the same thing we have now, except you would throw in a "gestation tube" that doesn't exist yet.
 
2013-04-30 11:35:10 PM

Fart_Machine: Fertilized eggs are children now.


winking across the bar is children now
 
2013-04-30 11:35:57 PM

gh0strid3r: skullkrusher: gh0strid3r: I am a pro-life atheist (no, that's not an oxymoron) and I still have no problem with this. The very basic function of the morning after pill is to prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall, effectively preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. It does not terminate an established pregnancy. Based on those terms, it's technically a contraceptive.

since the egg is fertilized prior to making its way to the uterus, isn't preventing uterine attachment is abortion? Granted you're not actually pregnant until the zygote attaches but you are still destroying the fertilized egg by preventing the attachment

I think you just answered your own question. Fertilized eggs only have a small chance of attaching even without the morning after pill.


isn't that besides the point? If you are actively preventing implantation after fertilization, I think calling it not an abortion is a distinction without a difference.
As mentioned, that's not what Plan-B is meant to do but if you're pro-life from conception then this is abortion
 
2013-04-30 11:36:02 PM

RevMercutio: TomD9938: I wonder who we will have lost.

Do you also do this when you masturbate?


Nah... It kills the mood.
 
2013-04-30 11:37:08 PM

Jackson Herring: Fart_Machine: Fertilized eggs are children now.

winking across the bar is children now


winking at someone across the bar in 2013 is probably the best form of contraception there is...
unless you're a chick
 
2013-04-30 11:37:14 PM

TomD9938: RevMercutio: TomD9938: I wonder who we will have lost.

Do you also do this when you masturbate?

Nah... It kills the mood.


But what if you were ejaculating out the sperm that was supposed to be Jesus?!?!?!!? OMGZ
 
2013-04-30 11:37:35 PM

Jackson Herring: Fart_Machine: Fertilized eggs are children now.

winking across the bar is children now


Turning down disturbed strangers on the subway is children now.
 
2013-04-30 11:38:26 PM

neongoats: But what if you were ejaculating out the sperm that was supposed to be Jesus?!?!?!!? OMGZ


rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-04-30 11:38:58 PM

The Why Not Guy: It prevents conception from taking place.


Conception is fertilization. Plan B does not prevent fertilization.
 
2013-04-30 11:39:33 PM

megarian: Turning down disturbed strangers on the subway is children now.


no, that's murder
 
2013-04-30 11:39:56 PM

gh0strid3r: I am a pro-life atheist (no, that's not an oxymoron) and I still have no problem with this. The very basic function of the morning after pill is to prevent the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall, effectively preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. It does not terminate an established pregnancy. Based on those terms, it's technically a contraceptive.


Actually, even that is wrong. Plan B works by preventing fertilization.
 
2013-04-30 11:41:02 PM

Popcorn Johnny: The Why Not Guy: It prevents conception from taking place.

Conception is fertilization. Plan B does not prevent fertilization.


it does
 
2013-04-30 11:41:58 PM

Popcorn Johnny: The Why Not Guy: It prevents conception from taking place.

Conception is fertilization. Plan B does not prevent fertilization.


That's wrong.
 
2013-04-30 11:42:23 PM

Dr. Goldshnoz: You just watch, this is going to cause crime, destroy the innocence of our children, bring the wraith of god upon us, destroy american society, and cause the further advance the women's war on men.



It will also translate your documents into Swahili, make your TV record "Gigli", neuter your pets and give your laundry static cling .
 
2013-04-30 11:43:14 PM

ciberido: Dr. Goldshnoz: You just watch, this is going to cause crime, destroy the innocence of our children, bring the wraith of god upon us, destroy american society, and cause the further advance the women's war on men.


It will also translate your documents into Swahili, make your TV record "Gigli", neuter your pets and give your laundry static cling .


And program your VCR+ for you.
 
2013-04-30 11:43:22 PM

Jackson Herring: megarian: Turning down disturbed strangers on the subway is children now.

no, that's murder


....a new extreme sport appears...
 
2013-04-30 11:44:08 PM

Wasteland: trialpha: hardinparamedic: That's the point you're missing, though. It's not about you, or the man. It's about the offspring you created, and what's best for it.

If you're so concerned about what's best for the child, then why is the woman permitted to abort it in the first place? Why is it fair to the child that it can be destroyed for the sake of a woman, in effect, avoiding 9 months of discomfort?


Depends on what point in the process you consider it to have become a child.

(Be prepared to support your answer...)


I wasn't the one who brought up fairness to the child in this argument. My point is that if it is to be considered an actor in the decision as to whether or not it's fair to lock a man into paying child support to it prior to birth then it should be in the decision as to whether or not to abort it. Or, since it is not born, and thus doesn't have rights at all, it shouldn't be considered in either.
 
2013-04-30 11:44:14 PM

Tumunga: Popcorn Johnny: Aarontology: Because they're two entirely different issues.

How so? Parents have the right to know what their kids are doing.

Nope, the guvment is taking care of your kids now. Didn't you get the memo?


upload.wikimedia.org
So delicious!
 
2013-04-30 11:47:10 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Dr. Goldshnoz: You just watch, this is going to cause crime, destroy the innocence of our children, bring the wraith of god upon us, destroy american society, and cause the further advance the women's war on men.

You just watch.

I don't think so. According to Pat Robertson and the late (yay!) Jerry Falwell, homos are to blame for all those things. Homos and lezzies.



Yep, it's all the fault of those damn queers.  If it weren't for them, there would be solar energy!  The Sunnis and Shi'ites would lay down their arms!
 
2013-04-30 11:49:20 PM

Dimensio: Dr. Goldshnoz: You just watch, this is going to cause crime, destroy the innocence of our children, bring the wraith of god upon us, destroy american society, and cause the further advance the women's war on men.

You just watch.

Of equal concern is the confusion that will result in what percentage of crime, destruction of innocence, wrath of god, destruction of society and advancement of the war on men is a result of this move by the Food and Drug Administration, and what percentage of those calamities are a result of same-sex marriage.


See?  If only we turned everyone gay, there would be no need for abortions OR contraceptives!  Think of all the unborn baby lives we'd save!

It's so simple!
 
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