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(WIBA 1310 Madison)   Wisconsin to force food stamps recipients to spend money on fruits and vegetables. And probably cheese since it's Wisconsin   (wiba.com) divider line 376
    More: Interesting, Wisconsin, Wisconsin State Assembly, junk foods, party-line vote, food stamps  
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6879 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 10:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 08:08:45 PM
ten percent can go towards packers "stock"
 
2013-04-30 08:32:27 PM
hypocritical. nobody in wisconsin eats fruits and vegetables. i spent many a weekend at road america back in the 90s - 3-days, paddock pass - and the only things consumed were brats, cheese and beer.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-30 08:58:23 PM
Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.
 
2013-04-30 09:15:23 PM
This doesn't make sense. Forcing the masses to eat right will only make them healthier. And smarter.

Republicans don't like thinking people. Who are they going to fill the jails with?
 
2013-04-30 09:28:13 PM
Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.
 
2013-04-30 09:33:03 PM

basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.


it was, wasn't it? i wouldn't know. my hobo uncle would.
 
2013-04-30 09:33:25 PM

vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.


That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.
 
2013-04-30 09:42:14 PM

Bathia_Mapes: That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.


Beans and rice are whole foods, as are frozen and canned veggies, and all are far better than the heavily-processed junk food that they're targeting.

Food stamps (TANF, SNAP) are meant to SUPPLEMENT the food budget for families.  The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.  Yeah, veggies are more expensive than nutrient-bereft corn chips, but they also don't lead to a poor populace that is both obese and malnourished.  White rice isn't that good for you, but at least it doesn't come with a litany of 25-cent-word processing ingredients.
 
2013-04-30 09:55:58 PM

factoryconnection: Bathia_Mapes: That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.

Beans and rice are whole foods, as are frozen and canned veggies, and all are far better than the heavily-processed junk food that they're targeting.

Food stamps (TANF, SNAP) are meant to SUPPLEMENT the food budget for families.  The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.  Yeah, veggies are more expensive than nutrient-bereft corn chips, but they also don't lead to a poor populace that is both obese and malnourished.  White rice isn't that good for you, but at least it doesn't come with a litany of 25-cent-word processing ingredients.


Yes, SNAP is meant to supplement a family's food budget, but in reality it's often the only source a family has to buy food. It's not uncommon for the work income of a family to go towards rent, transportation to & from work, necessary clothing, etc., with nothing left to purchase food.

BTW-TANF is cash benefits and not everyone on SNAP gets TANF.
 
2013-04-30 10:00:50 PM
Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.
 
2013-04-30 10:06:59 PM
We should give them the enriched peanut butter-paste stuff we use to keep Africans alive.  It's cheap and it doesn't lead to high health care costs and unsightly fatness.
 
2013-04-30 10:22:58 PM

Bathia_Mapes: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.

That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.


carrots are cheap as shiat.  onions are sometimes.  Not all fruits and veggies are expensive.
 
2013-04-30 10:23:54 PM
Fresh foods are great, but don't keep well for very long.

Fresh foods also mean going to the grocery store more often.  Which means more time wasted and spending more money on gas or public transportation.  They hardly get anything to put towards food as it is and the politicians are trying to make it even more difficult to survive.

If the politicians really want to make fresh foods a big part of the plan then they need to give a lot more money.  They should triple it.
They never will, but they should.
 
2013-04-30 10:25:28 PM

doglover: Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.


People on food stamps suggenly getting a bag of beans and rice. Yeah, that would go well.
 
2013-04-30 10:26:41 PM
You take Caesar's coin, you play by Caesar's rules.
 
2013-04-30 10:26:42 PM
THAT'S UN-AMERKIN!
 
2013-04-30 10:28:12 PM
I don't know... As a demo libby lib, I think I am okay with this, as long as market prices allow families on assistance to feed themselves and their kids.
 
2013-04-30 10:28:23 PM

basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.

Holy crap! Yes it was.
 
2013-04-30 10:30:29 PM
Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.
 
2013-04-30 10:30:43 PM
Frito-Lay and Coca-Cola will make some "campaign contributions" and this bill will quietly go away.
 
2013-04-30 10:32:23 PM
I see at least one Republican is on board with the First Lady's initiative.
 
2013-04-30 10:33:08 PM
As long as the poors can keep trading these veggie stamps for packs of smokes outside of bodegas, I don't think anything will change with the world.
 
2013-04-30 10:33:31 PM
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3779123/  (Warning: Furry Site. Some mods think this is all porn, regardless that you can't see adult/mature items unless you log in and specifically enable it. Specific link lacks anything more than user icons.)

Once again, I break this out. 30 million dollars a day, or 11.5 billion a year, 3 servings of rice to everyone ni the US.

No, it's not meant to be the entirety of the food. It's meant to supplement and shift their food spending to include healthier items that the rice can supplemental. Nor is rice the only option, it's just the one I had math on.

Yes, that includes an estimate of overhead and distribution.
 
2013-04-30 10:33:43 PM

vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.


No shiat. Fresh fruit is expensive, especially this time of year. Heck, raspberries were $4 a pint last Saturday if I remember properly.
 
2013-04-30 10:34:42 PM

SCUBA_Archer: As long as the poors can keep trading these veggie stamps for packs of smokes outside of bodegas, I don't think anything will change with the world.


In California, SNAP benefits are now on an electronic card.
 
2013-04-30 10:35:34 PM

vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.


In RI, you can get $7 in "Freshbucks" for $5 of SNAP for use in farmer's markets.
 
2013-04-30 10:35:44 PM
Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.
 
2013-04-30 10:35:53 PM

Treygreen13: doglover: Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.

People on food stamps suggenly getting a bag of beans and rice. Yeah, that would go well.


It would end the debate on where the money goes and feed my future sol- er fellow Americans proper nutrition.

Also they don't get the rice till they pass a marksmanship class and physical exam is phase 2.

Finally, they have to kiss a picture of the bear flag.
 
2013-04-30 10:35:59 PM
Food Stamps are for live lobster, everyone knows that.
 
2013-04-30 10:36:37 PM
Sure. Force them to spend two thirds of the monthly SNAP on fruits and veggies that will be rotten within a week, leaving three weeks of starvation on what little food stamps are left.

Cunning plan. Not all the way through. Etc. Etc.
 
2013-04-30 10:38:20 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.


they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility
 
2013-04-30 10:38:22 PM
This is a problem, only because the Feds subsidize crap used in crappy foods, making healthy foods comparatively expensive. The primary reason people on food stamps buy crap is because that's all they can afford. All this will do is make it harder for more people to buy enough food to not be hungry.
 
2013-04-30 10:38:31 PM

Krumet: You take Caesar's coin, you play by Caesar's rules.


Untilllll............

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-30 10:39:37 PM
I know two people who get SNAP, one works full time and has 5 kids living at home, they get around $300/month and spend it mostly on meat, bread, and milk.

The other doesn't work and hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income, they get around $600/month with 3 kids living at home, and spend it mostly on spaghetti o's and boxed macaroni and cheese for the kids. They eat out almost every day on bf-now-recently-husband's hidden income. (They also own 3 cars...2 of which are newer than mine, and one with a $400/month car payment, which is affordable for them because they live in section 8 housing and only pay $180.month for their 3 bedroom townhouse).

The latter is one reason why people create bills like this.
 
2013-04-30 10:39:39 PM
I'm OK with this.
 
2013-04-30 10:41:50 PM
Well, if the government is feeding you, don't they get a say in what you eat?
 
2013-04-30 10:42:25 PM
Better crank up the shiat treatment plant another notch.
 
2013-04-30 10:42:53 PM

Great Janitor: Well, if the government is feeding you, don't they get a say in what you eat?


basically the idea here it seems
 
2013-04-30 10:43:11 PM

vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.


They can buy frozen vegetables.
 
2013-04-30 10:43:34 PM
Fruits and veggies aren't that expensive and a banana goes a lot further nutritionally than say, a bag o' chips.

That said, these foods can be hard to come by for some people without transportation, so it should be paired with addressing the lack of quality food in impoverished areas.
 
2013-04-30 10:43:50 PM

take_flight: I know two people who get SNAP, one works full time and has 5 kids living at home, they get around $300/month and spend it mostly on meat, bread, and milk.

The other doesn't work and hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income, they get around $600/month with 3 kids living at home, and spend it mostly on spaghetti o's and boxed macaroni and cheese for the kids. They eat out almost every day on bf-now-recently-husband's hidden income. (They also own 3 cars...2 of which are newer than mine, and one with a $400/month car payment, which is affordable for them because they live in section 8 housing and only pay $180.month for their 3 bedroom townhouse).

The latter is one reason why people create bills like this.


Turn them in.
 
2013-04-30 10:43:59 PM

Great Janitor: Well, if the government is feeding you, don't they get a say in what you eat?


Sure, but they have to compensate for the price difference between 'cheap essentials' like rice, beans and milk and eggs and bread and lunch meats....and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies.  Because they'll quickly run out of benefits before the end of the month if they don't compensate for the higher prices of those healthy foods.
 
2013-04-30 10:44:13 PM

FlashHarry: hypocritical. nobody in wisconsin eats fruits and vegetables. i spent many a weekend at road america back in the 90s - 3-days, paddock pass - and the only things consumed were brats, cheese and beer.


Ahem, no fruit? Explain this!

assets.bizjournals.com
 
2013-04-30 10:44:57 PM

factoryconnection: Bathia_Mapes: That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.

Beans and rice are whole foods, as are frozen and canned veggies, and all are far better than the heavily-processed junk food that they're targeting.

Food stamps (TANF, SNAP) are meant to SUPPLEMENT the food budget for families.  The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.  Yeah, veggies are more expensive than nutrient-bereft corn chips, but they also don't lead to a poor populace that is both obese and malnourished.  White rice isn't that good for you, but at least it doesn't come with a litany of 25-cent-word processing ingredients.


I love the ingredients listed on my bag of rice:  Rice.
 
2013-04-30 10:47:17 PM
If they allow purchasing frozen vegetables, I don't see the big deal. Frozen are as healthy as fresh and last basically forever. Cheaper, too.
 
2013-04-30 10:47:55 PM

Mock26: take_flight: I know two people who get SNAP, one works full time and has 5 kids living at home, they get around $300/month and spend it mostly on meat, bread, and milk.

The other doesn't work and hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income, they get around $600/month with 3 kids living at home, and spend it mostly on spaghetti o's and boxed macaroni and cheese for the kids. They eat out almost every day on bf-now-recently-husband's hidden income. (They also own 3 cars...2 of which are newer than mine, and one with a $400/month car payment, which is affordable for them because they live in section 8 housing and only pay $180.month for their 3 bedroom townhouse).

The latter is one reason why people create bills like this.

Turn them in.


They actually got nailed for day care fraud before they were married, and my state cross references, but his self-employment is hidden for the most part, (he doesn't even claim it with the IRS), and the process is very slow. Someone in my state who gets caught now might actually have repercussions in a year or two after they've been offered several chances to pay it back. Also, a few people are afraid to report them because of the kids.
 
2013-04-30 10:49:12 PM

machoprogrammer: If they allow purchasing frozen vegetables, I don't see the big deal. Frozen are as healthy as fresh and last basically forever. Cheaper, too.


I always have various bags of frozen vegetables in my freezer and cans of tomatoes and boxes of pasta in my fridge.  They are great for a quick meal when I have not yet had time to go to the grocery store that week.
 
2013-04-30 10:49:50 PM
Er, tomatoes and pasta in my pantry.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:05 PM

Godscrack: This doesn't make sense. Forcing the masses to eat right will only make them healthier. And smarter.

Republicans don't like thinking people. Who are they going to fill the jails with?


Nice to see you being a tolerant liberal and all.
Farking allah you're an *hole.

Nice
 
2013-04-30 10:50:20 PM
1) How to vendors implement this, and 2) as a person who eats mostly fresh whole foods, calorie for calorie, they tend to cost two or three times more than prefabricated meals.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:24 PM

Bathia_Mapes: factoryconnection: Bathia_Mapes: That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.

Beans and rice are whole foods, as are frozen and canned veggies, and all are far better than the heavily-processed junk food that they're targeting.

Food stamps (TANF, SNAP) are meant to SUPPLEMENT the food budget for families.  The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.  Yeah, veggies are more expensive than nutrient-bereft corn chips, but they also don't lead to a poor populace that is both obese and malnourished.  White rice isn't that good for you, but at least it doesn't come with a litany of 25-cent-word processing ingredients.

Yes, SNAP is meant to supplement a family's food budget, but in reality it's often the only source a family has to buy food. It's not uncommon for the work income of a family to go towards rent, transportation to & from work, necessary clothing, etc., with nothing left to purchase food.

BTW-TANF is cash benefits and not everyone on SNAP gets TANF.


I'm sure you have at least a single study showing SNAP/TANF is essentially the full food budget for people on those programs.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:39 PM

IronOcelot: basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.
Holy crap! Yes it was.


I'm going to have to agree with y'all here.  I grew up in Wisconsin, and I still loved the government cheese.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:43 PM

basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.


The only problem was, it came in a 5 pound block, un sliced, so you either had to grate it, or, take your chances with a large knige, and enf up with a "wedge" slice of cheese, that started out thin, and ended up thick,

It actually was decent American cheese.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:51 PM

Infernalist: Great Janitor: Well, if the government is feeding you, don't they get a say in what you eat?

Sure, but they have to compensate for the price difference between 'cheap essentials' like rice, beans and milk and eggs and bread and lunch meats....and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies.  Because they'll quickly run out of benefits before the end of the month if they don't compensate for the higher prices of those healthy foods.


Or, they could do the smart thing and budget out their monthly government benefits.  The word 'fresh' wasn't required, so they aren't saying that food stamp people have to buy fresh fruits and veggies.  Canned and frozen are still options.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:02 PM

machoprogrammer: If they allow purchasing frozen vegetables, I don't see the big deal. Frozen are as healthy as fresh and last basically forever. Cheaper, too.


It's not like the fresh stuff disappears into the ether either. Bruising bananas can be frozen and turned into banana bread. Fruit and vegetables can be jammed or preserved. Hell you can even just outright freeze the fresh stuff if you don't mind the flavor and texture hit.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:03 PM
Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:34 PM

Mock26: machoprogrammer: If they allow purchasing frozen vegetables, I don't see the big deal. Frozen are as healthy as fresh and last basically forever. Cheaper, too.

I always have various bags of frozen vegetables in my freezer and cans of tomatoes and boxes of pasta in my fridge.  They are great for a quick meal when I have not yet had time to go to the grocery store that week.


Agreed. I go through two family packs of frozen vegetables a week ($2.50 each). $5 a week for vegetables? Not too shabby.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:37 PM
 Sounds like a good idea to place some restrictions on what can be purchased. Of course it's nothing more that political posturing so walker can look like he's getting tough on those dirty poor people and will get smacked down just as soon as he realizes that it's just as much corporate wellfare as it is people welfare. I'm willing to bet money that after the first call from one of his donors in the food industry he'll realize he doesn't really want to go there.

Hypnozombie
 
2013-04-30 10:52:35 PM

lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.


Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?
 
2013-04-30 10:52:56 PM
I'm a New Yorker and by my absolute volume I will squish one of u to smidge of rice.
 
2013-04-30 10:53:32 PM

take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income


How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.
 
2013-04-30 10:53:38 PM

IronOcelot: basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.
Holy crap! Yes it was.


Yeah, except it came in a 5lb block, unsliced.  So, you either had to grate it, or take your chances slicing it with a knife.  Slicing it tended to create slices that were wedge shaped.  Started off thin, but lost it in the middle, and it got thicker as you reached the bottom.  My solution was to get two wedge shaped pieces, and lay them on each other, thin end to thick end, to make one, large slab for grilling.

it actually was decent American cheese.
 
2013-04-30 10:53:44 PM

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


Dairy is not good for everyone. Most people who aren't white are lactose intolerant, although this can definitely apply to a lot of white folks as well.
 
2013-04-30 10:54:47 PM

TV's Vinnie: Sure. Force them to spend two thirds of the monthly SNAP on fruits and veggies that will be rotten within a week, leaving three weeks of starvation on what little food stamps are left.

Cunning plan. Not all the way through. Etc. Etc.


Just so ya know, it doesn't actually say that two-thirds needs to be spent on fruits and veggies. the bill is aimed more at telling people what they canNOT buy with the majority of their card money... No soda, no chips, no candy. Anything reasonably healthy would be still allowed.
 
2013-04-30 10:55:03 PM
Yeah, because politicizing public assistance down to the level of a person's diet isn't at all petty or spiteful, and is sure to make for some sound policy...
 
2013-04-30 10:55:08 PM
Oh, no.  How terrible!  I enjoy paying for people to eat shiat and get sick, and then pay for their healthcare, too!
 
2013-04-30 10:55:12 PM
This means that people on food stamps will actually be healthier than people who earn enough income to not need benefits.
 
2013-04-30 10:55:19 PM

Mock26: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?


I can find fresh chicken for 89¢ a pound all the time, and fresh boneless skinless chicken breast for $1.79 a pound. I just slow cooked a 6 pound pork shoulder that I got for $1.79 a pound.
 
2013-04-30 10:56:00 PM
I did a word search in TFA.  The word 'fresh' doesn't appear.  So why are people bring it up as a reason why it's a bad idea?
 
2013-04-30 10:56:00 PM

Mock26: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.

They can buy frozen vegetables.


Since we became empty nesters we can't eat fresh veggies fast enough before they go bad. Kroger carries 3 lb bags of frozen veggies for about $3.50 and they taste just fine if you don't overcook them.

In the town I used to live in, I regularly saw poor white trash fill their carts with crap food, their overweight kids ripping into bags of chips before they even left the store. Junk food was a rare treat for me growing up. I grew up on the poor side. My grandma had an epic garden and used to bring over brown paper sacks of veggies every week. As an adult I now appreciate how helpful that was to our family at the time. I just love vegetables. It's a shame more kids today don't have the chance to learn to love them too.
 
2013-04-30 10:56:27 PM

skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility


And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:22 PM

Mock26: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?


That's pretty cheap. I can get a whole chicken at $1.99/lb in NYC though.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:26 PM
Oh that's farking smart. make people dependent on assistance pay out of pocket for the only real food in the grocery store. Yes meat is a real food, but given the price increases the last 10 years, outside of chicken, it's becoming more and more of a luxury item. Yes grains and breads are real foods, but if people are "living" on those, we get a nation of over-carbed fat asses. everything else in the grocery store is bullshiat. hamburger helper, oreos, doritos, frozen pizza, and fig newtens, canned and frozen foods are not what you should be encouraging people to live on on a daily basis.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:26 PM

TheDirtyNacho: That said, these foods can be hard to come by for some people without transportation, so it should be paired with addressing the lack of quality food in impoverished areas.


Actually, you would think that the more rural a place is, the better access it has to fruits and vegetables.

Never once have I been in a store...from a small corner store to a large super Wal-Mart and not seen fruits and vegetables.  Bananas are cheap. Apples are cheap. Carrots are cheap.  Each costs the same as a bag of chips.

This comes down to people not wanting to make stuff when they get home from work.  Its easier to boil up some spaghetti-os or velveta cheez than it is to chop some fruits and vegetables.  The end result of a shiatty diet is actually hungrier kids, whose bodies are craving actual nutrients.  Go ahead and eat healthy for a week.  You'd be amazed how much your body doens't get salt/sugar cravings and how long something as stupid as an apple can go towards keeping you full for a while.  I'm a 28 year old normal sized dude and a $.70 apple for breakfast tides me over just fine until Lunch.

Infernalist: and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies.


Yeah about that.  Staple fruits and veggies are not that expensive.

Apples: $2/lb
Onions: $1/lb
Grapefruit: $1/ea
Mango: 2 for $3
2lb Bag of carrots: $2.99
Oranges: $1/ea
Limes: 3/$1

and I live in the northeast. my local grocer is one of the nicer ones in the area.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:27 PM

Bumblefark: Yeah, because politicizing public assistance down to the level of a person's diet isn't at all petty or spiteful, and is sure to make for some sound policy...


I'm pretty sure this is just the first strike.  The next will be "See, they can buy healthy food with 2/3 of their food stamps, that means we can cut the budget by 1/3".
 
2013-04-30 10:57:35 PM

take_flight: Mock26: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?

I can find fresh chicken for 89¢ a pound all the time, and fresh boneless skinless chicken breast for $1.79 a pound. I just slow cooked a 6 pound pork shoulder that I got for $1.79 a pound.


89cents a pound sounds like a decent sale price for bone-in chicken. Boneless, comes out to 2 to 2.50 a pound on a decent sale.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:58 PM
I keep hearing about Wisconsin cheese but I've never seen it here is it only available in  Wisconsin  ?
 
2013-04-30 10:58:28 PM

Hermione_Granger: skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility

And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.


how is eliminating junk food from eligibility going to force people to live on apples and onions?
I don't think there is any sort of slippery slope here
 
2013-04-30 10:59:10 PM

factoryconnection: The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.


The Government likely does that already.   Silly Farker, Capitalism will ALWAYS trump health or safety.

If you want to get bootstrappy, strip the folks like Kraft, Pepsico, Nestle and Tyson of their tax subsidies.  Do they get subsidies?, hell if I know, but they're big enough to have buddies on Capitol Hill, so it's very likely they do.

Make the price of a two-liter bottle of soda five bucks, the "Family Size" bag of Doritos 10 bucks, see how fast those will stay on the shelves longer.
 
2013-04-30 10:59:42 PM

lolpix: take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income

How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.


Yeah, my husband was self-employed in the same business as he is actually, and it killed us too.

He just doesn't report it, and what he does report he takes every single deduction possible. Somehow he claimed a deduction for a $13,000 skid steer, yet only reported $10,000 in income for the year. It seems like they would catch on to that sooner or later. No one even questions how he can afford anything on the less than $200 he claims he makes a week.
 
2013-04-30 11:01:12 PM

Molavian: Oh, no.  How terrible!  I enjoy paying for people to eat shiat and get sick, and then pay for their healthcare, too!


Make no mistake about it. Your money goes to insure you seldom have to interact with poor people.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:08 PM

skullkrusher: Hermione_Granger: skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility

And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.

how is eliminating junk food from eligibility going to force people to live on apples and onions?
I don't think there is any sort of slippery slope here


I don't agree with the idea of slippery slope, but SNAP is already limited in what you can buy. But instead of saying "Up to x% allowed on junk-food category of items" and junk food is.. a slippery term - they're saying "X% must be spent on x,y,z."

It's not the way I'd do it, especially since XYZ include higher-priced items that don't last as long as other items (Unless frozen/canned veggies are allowed.).

Sure, people can can/freeze fresh fruits and veggies, but does anyone here really know how if they don't already? I certainly don't, and I consider myself relatively well rounded on things like that.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:18 PM

Hermione_Granger: skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility

And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.


Your greatest concern with this policy is that a child may bring a bag of onions to a food day at school? Wrap those onions in foil, put a slab of butter inside, and stick them in the oven until they carmelize. Kid'll be the star of the show.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:25 PM

revrendjim: Frito-Lay and Coca-Cola will make some "campaign contributions" and this bill will quietly go away.


A couple months ago I was behind a high school girl buying flaming hot Cheetos with food stamps. That's not what the program is for


You'd think someone like Michelle Obama would be behind something like this, but since its republicans doing it, it will be seen as evil
 
2013-04-30 11:03:29 PM

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


Unless you are lactose intolerant.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:30 PM
I'm with the "fruit and veg isn't that expensive" group. Bananas have to be the biggest nutrition bargain you can buy. Apples are super cheap. Sure, fancy honeycrisps are $4 a pound, but you can get yummy Braeburns for under a dollar a pound. Potatoes and carrots are pennies a pound. Also, in SD you can spend snap money on food--bearing seeds and plants. Anyone can grow tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers. You can even grow them in containers.

But people don't want to buy ingredients and cook. Because laziness.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:40 PM

Dr. Goldshnoz: Oh that's farking smart. make people dependent on assistance pay out of pocket for the only real food in the grocery store. Yes meat is a real food, but given the price increases the last 10 years, outside of chicken, it's becoming more and more of a luxury item. Yes grains and breads are real foods, but if people are "living" on those, we get a nation of over-carbed fat asses. everything else in the grocery store is bullshiat. hamburger helper, oreos, doritos, frozen pizza, and fig newtens, canned and frozen foods are not what you should be encouraging people to live on on a daily basis.


wtfamireading.jpg
 
2013-04-30 11:03:51 PM
I didn't read the part about the new law their gonna pass to prevent merchants from doubling the price on any such produce when this goes into effect.

I mean, they are going to do that right?
 
2013-04-30 11:03:56 PM

take_flight: lolpix: take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income

How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.

Yeah, my husband was self-employed in the same business as he is actually, and it killed us too.

He just doesn't report it, and what he does report he takes every single deduction possible. Somehow he claimed a deduction for a $13,000 skid steer, yet only reported $10,000 in income for the year. It seems like they would catch on to that sooner or later. No one even questions how he can afford anything on the less than $200 he claims he makes a week.


I don't think I could get away with that. 90% or more of my income is reported on corporate 1099 forms. They'd catch me sooner or later.
 
2013-04-30 11:04:05 PM

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


What about the lactose-intolerant poor?
 
2013-04-30 11:04:14 PM
So, some of you had no knife skills.
 
2013-04-30 11:04:34 PM

HypnozombieX: Of course it's nothing more that political posturing so walker can look like he's getting tough on those dirty poor people



It started out worse -- according to a news report a couple weeks ago, there was going to be language in the bill prohibiting using the benefit on 'really good steaks' and lobster, but I see that part never made it into the final bill.
 
2013-04-30 11:05:08 PM

poison_amy: I'm with the "fruit and veg isn't that expensive" group. Bananas have to be the biggest nutrition bargain you can buy. Apples are super cheap. Sure, fancy honeycrisps are $4 a pound, but you can get yummy Braeburns for under a dollar a pound. Potatoes and carrots are pennies a pound. Also, in SD you can spend snap money on food--bearing seeds and plants. Anyone can grow tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers. You can even grow them in containers.

But people don't want to buy ingredients and cook. Because laziness.


Or they're clueless, or lack the items to do so, or lack the time to do so.

I mean, in theory I could feed myself from 'raw ingrediants', but in practice the kitchen is always a mess (4 people in this house, the other 3 dont' clean up after themselves), and stuff always goes missing.
 
2013-04-30 11:05:12 PM

lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.


My only beef (Ha!) with your statement is the implicit costs of fresh stuff. Transportation (car, bus, walking, etc) is really limited for the poor at certain times. Storage is also a bit tougher since most people on assistance are families, and limited fridge space can mean less availability for storage, especially leftovers. And finally, time is an issue. If a parent comes home after a long and/or crappy shift, it IS easier to throw mac and cheese together than actually do the cooking for a more nutritious meal. Give the kid a PB&J sandwich + a pack of poptarts for lunch because it's fast and mornings can be a rush as it is.

Raising the minimum wage would help immensely.
 
2013-04-30 11:05:27 PM
We can all pretend like Republicans suddenly care about healthy eating.

Or, we can look at their responses any time Michelle Obama suggests kids should eat their vegetables, and recognize this for what it is: "lets stick it to those stupid poors!"

/This will create lawsuits under the 5th Amendment
//I suspect that's part of the WIGOP's plan
 
2013-04-30 11:05:42 PM

o5iiawah: Yeah about that. Staple fruits and veggies are not that expensive.

Apples: $2/lb
Onions: $1/lb
Grapefruit: $1/ea
Mango: 2 for $3
2lb Bag of carrots: $2.99
Oranges: $1/ea
Limes: 3/$1

and I live in the northeast. my local grocer is one of the nicer ones in the area.


If you don't have a car and don't live close to a real grocery store, it's a real hassle to get it.  And the gas station that's nearby is only selling fruits individually at 89 or 99 cents.
 
2013-04-30 11:06:30 PM
Wait, I thought the Glorious and Benevolent Scott Walker hath slain the Dastardly Unions and now Wisconsin has 150% employment and hosts the world headquarters of every member of the Fortune 1000?
 
2013-04-30 11:07:22 PM

Summercat: I don't agree with the idea of slippery slope, but SNAP is already limited in what you can buy. But instead of saying "Up to x% allowed on junk-food category of items" and junk food is.. a slippery term - they're saying "X% must be spent on x,y,z."

It's not the way I'd do it, especially since XYZ include higher-priced items that don't last as long as other items (Unless frozen/canned veggies are allowed.).

Sure, people can can/freeze fresh fruits and veggies, but does anyone here really know how if they don't already? I certainly don't, and I consider myself relatively well rounded on things like that.


I haven't seen any indication that frozen and canned vegetables are excluded from the "good food" category. It appears to limit the amount that can be spent on soda and Doritos, not actual real food.
 
2013-04-30 11:07:22 PM

Bathia_Mapes: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.


Your second point is the one I'm worried about; other people have pointed out that smart shopping can lead to fruits and vegetables not being that expensive; canned and frozen are good enough for me on my non-government-funded budget now and I just have to forgo the fancy Martian tangelos and edamame-whatevers that I hope to enjoy after the lean years are over. I don't want to subsidize these for other people when I can't even afford them myself, but I get the point that it's easy to armchair advocate for everyone eating healthy when you can personally afford to.

But the access issue is huge. Taught in North St. Louis and East St. Louis, Illinois and the concept of a food desert is real. On one of my first days I drove for ten minutes in two separate directions just looking for something other than fried chicken and had to turn around and go back and eat in the cafeteria with the kids. And I had a car. And money. Started bringing lunch. Ain't nothing out there. Super easy for folks to sit in a comfy suburban apartment with a Whole Foods up the street and a Trader Joe's across from it and tell others how to eat, but no amount of whatever validity does underlie their point will magically poof up grocery stores in these areas. And yeah, just grocery stores. I'm not even talking about a Whole Foods. I'm talking about anything besides a convenience store selling tall boys and chips sandwiched in between a pawn shop and a hair studio.
 
2013-04-30 11:07:29 PM

Godscrack: This doesn't make sense. Forcing the masses to eat right will only make them healthier. And smarter.

Republicans don't like thinking people. Who are they going to fill the jails with?


How many christians do you know that are in jail for rape and murder?  If you're going to act like an idiot, at least use your only counterpoints and just scream out INTOLERANT or RACIST.
 
2013-04-30 11:07:42 PM

doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.


But how are Kraft and General Mills and Kellogs and Nestle and Conagra etc. etc. supposed to profit off that?
 
2013-04-30 11:08:37 PM

Molavian: Oh, no.  How terrible!  I enjoy paying for people to eat shiat and get sick, and then pay for their healthcare, too!


people  say that like they personally get a bill each month.

IF, you pay taxes and don't any kind of refund (assuming you don't take any of the credits offered and actually get back MORE in federal taxes than you pay in) you portion of the bill is like what? a few dollars  a month?

compare that to the trillions in guaranteed loans to wall  street or the tax payer money that went to their bonuses  alone.

Family getting food vs, wall street douches getting their kitchen remodeled.

Which one do conservatives hate more? hmmmm
 
2013-04-30 11:08:48 PM

Protricity: I didn't read the part about the new law their gonna pass to prevent merchants from doubling the price on any such produce when this goes into effect.

I mean, they are going to do that right?


they're gonna double the price of produce to take advantage of this increase in the proportion of 15% of  the population's food money that must be spent on produce? Dubious.
 
2013-04-30 11:09:21 PM
Wisconsin to force food stamps recipients to spend money on fruits and vegetables. And probably cheese since it's Wisconsin

I'm not from Wisconsin but I endorse this idea. Every time my refrigerator has both fruit and cheese this is me...
ragemaker.net
...with the fruit and the cheese.
 
2013-04-30 11:09:40 PM

lolpix: take_flight: lolpix: take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income

How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.

Yeah, my husband was self-employed in the same business as he is actually, and it killed us too.

He just doesn't report it, and what he does report he takes every single deduction possible. Somehow he claimed a deduction for a $13,000 skid steer, yet only reported $10,000 in income for the year. It seems like they would catch on to that sooner or later. No one even questions how he can afford anything on the less than $200 he claims he makes a week.

I don't think I could get away with that. 90% or more of my income is reported on corporate 1099 forms. They'd catch me sooner or later.


Those pesky 1099's...

I'm positive that the IRS can't be that stupid. They'll figure it out. This is mostly direct sales, there's virtually no middle man and no 1099's. The people who buy, however, do usually ask for social security numbers and they also have to pay royalties to land owners, who in turn probably report their income.
 
2013-04-30 11:10:32 PM

Summercat: take_flight: Mock26: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?

I can find fresh chicken for 89¢ a pound all the time, and fresh boneless skinless chicken breast for $1.79 a pound. I just slow cooked a 6 pound pork shoulder that I got for $1.79 a pound.

89cents a pound sounds like a decent sale price for bone-in chicken. Boneless, comes out to 2 to 2.50 a pound on a decent sale.


Boneless, skinless thighs are cheaper than breasts and taste better. I think I paid about a buck fifty a pound for them recently.
 
2013-04-30 11:10:55 PM

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


Lactose intolerant people can't have dairy.
 
2013-04-30 11:10:57 PM

FARK rebel soldier: Wisconsin to force food stamps recipients to spend money on fruits and vegetables. And probably cheese since it's Wisconsin

I'm not from Wisconsin but I endorse this idea. Every time my refrigerator has both fruit and cheese this is me...
[ragemaker.net image 474x476]
...with the fruit and the cheese.


apple slices with Swiss and a bit 'o peanut butter? Giggity
 
2013-04-30 11:12:02 PM
FYI, the text of the bill:


The people of the state of Wisconsin, represented in senate and assembly, do
enact as follows:

1 Section 1. 49.79 (7m) of the statutes is created to read:
2  49.79 (7m) Pilot program limiting foods. (a) Subject to par. (b), the
3 department shall conduct a pilot program under which the department allows the
4 benefits under the food stamp program to be used only for foods, food products, and
5 beverages that have sufficient nutritional value. The department shall identify
6 specific foods, food products, and beverages, or general categories of foods, food
7 products, and beverages, that do not have sufficient nutritional value and shall
8 prohibit the use of benefits under the program for those foods, food products, and
9 beverages.
10 (b) If the department determines that it may not implement the pilot program
11 under par. (a) without a federal waiver, the department shall request a waiver from
12 the secretary of the federal department of agriculture and may not implement the
13 pilot program under par. (a) unless the waiver is granted and in effect.
14 Section 2. 227.01 (13) (tm) of the statutes is created to read:
15 227.01 (13) (tm) Relates to a pilot program under s. 49.79 (7m).
16 (End)

- from http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/ab110
 
2013-04-30 11:12:09 PM

Mija: Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.

Lactose intolerant people can't have dairy.


well I for one am tired of people demanding that I be tolerant of their intolerance.
 
2013-04-30 11:12:12 PM
Why make them eat healthy?  Make them instead only eat processed sugar and tobacco.  Preferably anything unfiltered and full of additives and carcinogens.

LessO2: factoryconnection: The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.

The Government likely does that already.   Silly Farker, Capitalism will ALWAYS trump health or safety.

If you want to get bootstrappy, strip the folks like Kraft, Pepsico, Nestle and Tyson of their tax subsidies.  Do they get subsidies?, hell if I know, but they're big enough to have buddies on Capitol Hill, so it's very likely they do.

Make the price of a two-liter bottle of soda five bucks, the "Family Size" bag of Doritos 10 bucks, see how fast those will stay on the shelves longer.


Food stamps are not a subsidy to the people.  Food stamps are a subsidy to Goldman Sachs which makes money off of every stamp processed.  They are also an indirect subsidy to big brewery and big tobacco, as those that get food stamps usually buy junk food with the stamps and then use their cash to buy cheap beer and cigarettes.

Also, tax breaks are not subsidies.  A tax break is when the government decides not to steal as much as it might otherwise have stolen.  A subsidy is the government handing out a check that can be cashed for a portion of that stolen money.
 
2013-04-30 11:13:54 PM

Godscrack: This doesn't make sense. Forcing the masses to eat right will only make them healthier. And smarter.

Republicans don't like thinking people. Who are they going to fill the jails with?


Wait, I thought Republicans wanted all the people on welfare to starve. I'm so confused

/your newsletter, I want to subscribe to it
 
2013-04-30 11:14:38 PM
I'm actually ok with this.
 
2013-04-30 11:15:31 PM

12349876: o5iiawah: Yeah about that. Staple fruits and veggies are not that expensive.

Apples: $2/lb
Onions: $1/lb
Grapefruit: $1/ea
Mango: 2 for $3
2lb Bag of carrots: $2.99
Oranges: $1/ea
Limes: 3/$1

and I live in the northeast. my local grocer is one of the nicer ones in the area.

If you don't have a car and don't live close to a real grocery store, it's a real hassle to get it.  And the gas station that's nearby is only selling fruits individually at 89 or 99 cents.


Price per pound is only part of the equation. Fresh fruits and vegetables do not keep as long. This requires you to either spend more time preparing them for storage, or shopping more often.  Typically a bit of both. This takes time and energy expense, be that expense muscle, electricity, or bus fare, which are commodities in and of themselves.  Poor people don't necessarily lack for work either. A lot of poor work 40 to 60 hour weeks like the rest of us slobs. They just don't make enough to get by in the jobs they have. If they were smart, they'd quit their Wal-Mart gig and become investment bankers.
 
2013-04-30 11:15:37 PM

Ed Willy: FlashHarry: hypocritical. nobody in wisconsin eats fruits and vegetables. i spent many a weekend at road america back in the 90s - 3-days, paddock pass - and the only things consumed were brats, cheese and beer.

Ahem, no fruit? Explain this!

[assets.bizjournals.com image 304x431]


Leinies is pretty damn cheap in my area, because the Brewery is like one town away from me. You can get a 12 back bottles for around 10 bucks most of the time.
 
2013-04-30 11:16:16 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2013-04-30 11:16:19 PM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: We can all pretend like Republicans suddenly care about healthy eating.

Or, we can look at their responses any time Michelle Obama suggests kids should eat their vegetables, and recognize this for what it is: "lets stick it to those stupid poors!"

/This will create lawsuits under the 5th Amendment
//I suspect that's part of the WIGOP's plan


mediatrackers.org

Just care so darn much about healthy eating...

/assuming that's the fat bastard in question.
 
2013-04-30 11:16:34 PM
How about simply ruling that if it's taxable in Wisconsin grocery stores it's not eligible for SNAP? Not a ton of things falling through the cracks that way.
 
2013-04-30 11:16:38 PM
LOL at the comments about budgets and hunger. Does anyone really think a lack of cheesy poofs and soda is going to make people starve? You'd have to eat a whole bag of cheetos to get full.

A can of corn or green beans is less than a dollar. No one is saying it has to be fresh/perishable. Conservatives preach individual liberty and anti-nannyism, but this is a pretty decent idea IMO. Change is hard.
 
2013-04-30 11:17:05 PM

lawboy87: I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value. Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.


Completely agree, and that's why education about price comparison and food preparation should be stressed in these programs and perhaps even made a mandatory condition of the benefit. A lot of people making these mistakes and buying convenience foods or the can of corn as opposed to the fresh ears don't know how to shop smartly (it can be a downright science) and/or prepare food at home well or simply at all, and fall back on the shockingly overpriced convenience equivalents of relatively affordable food. You can feed a kid well for a week for the price of a couple of Lunchables or Hidden Valley ranch kits. The mark-up is exorbitant and avoidable to the point that anybody spending tax dollars on those items should be ashamed - if they know better. And knowing better is easy to fix.
 
2013-04-30 11:17:24 PM

phaseolus: FYI, the text of the bill:


The people of the state of Wisconsin, represented in senate and assembly, do
enact as follows:

1 Section 1. 49.79 (7m) of the statutes is created to read:
2  49.79 (7m) Pilot program limiting foods. (a) Subject to par. (b), the
3 department shall conduct a pilot program under which the department allows the
4 benefits under the food stamp program to be used only for foods, food products, and
5 beverages that have sufficient nutritional value. The department shall identify
6 specific foods, food products, and beverages, or general categories of foods, food
7 products, and beverages, that do not have sufficient nutritional value and shall
8 prohibit the use of benefits under the program for those foods, food products, and
9 beverages.
10 (b) If the department determines that it may not implement the pilot program
11 under par. (a) without a federal waiver, the department shall request a waiver from
12 the secretary of the federal department of agriculture and may not implement the
13 pilot program under par. (a) unless the waiver is granted and in effect.
14 Section 2. 227.01 (13) (tm) of the statutes is created to read:
15 227.01 (13) (tm) Relates to a pilot program under s. 49.79 (7m).
16 (End)

- from http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/ab110


This seems a little vague, and how will they enforce it?
 
2013-04-30 11:19:16 PM
It is just going to be a pain in the butt that costs money for stores to manage this, especially for small stores that don't use a computer system or can't afford an upgrade to their software. The party of small government strikes again with a law that adds expensive regulations.
 
2013-04-30 11:19:56 PM

Hermione_Granger: Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.

Dairy is not good for everyone. Most people who aren't white are lactose intolerant, although this can definitely apply to a lot of white folks as well.


"Dairy is not good for anyone except the large number of people that it's good for"
 
2013-04-30 11:21:10 PM

phaseolus: FYI, the text of the bill:


The people of the state of Wisconsin, represented in senate and assembly, do
enact as follows:

1 Section 1. 49.79 (7m) of the statutes is created to read:
2  49.79 (7m) Pilot program limiting foods. (a) Subject to par. (b), the
3 department shall conduct a pilot program under which the department allows the
4 benefits under the food stamp program to be used only for foods, food products, and
5 beverages that have sufficient nutritional value. The department shall identify
6 specific foods, food products, and beverages, or general categories of foods, food
7 products, and beverages, that do not have sufficient nutritional value and shall
8 prohibit the use of benefits under the program for those foods, food products, and
9 beverages.
10 (b) If the department determines that it may not implement the pilot program
11 under par. (a) without a federal waiver, the department shall request a waiver from
12 the secretary of the federal department of agriculture and may not implement the
13 pilot program under par. (a) unless the waiver is granted and in effect.
14 Section 2. 227.01 (13) (tm) of the statutes is created to read:
15 227.01 (13) (tm) Relates to a pilot program under s. 49.79 (7m).
16 (End)

- from http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/ab110


I can't really say I have a problem with this. I was on food stamps (the card) in Cali for awhile; we couldn't buy Monsters (we didn't think it would, just wanted to see). Fiancé and I both thought it was perfectly reasonable.

The only concerns I have are the same as those already mentioned. Fresh food generally costs more unless you've got a coop or farmer's market nearby, and most farmer's markets don't take food stamps. There are also transportation costs (do you really want a hour-long bus ride full of people with old lady carts full of groceries in 90+ degree weather?), storage costs, prep work (both time and money), so on and so forth.

If you really believe in economic freedom, give them the cash. If they starve, their own damn fault.

/really getting tired of the "poor = irresponsible with money" meme
 
2013-04-30 11:21:16 PM

take_flight: This seems a little vague, and how will they enforce it?


They won't, nor will they provide funding for more oversight.  So when the Milwaukee news does more undercover stories on food stamp recipients buying things outside the guidelines we get another round of faked outrage.

/And asparagus grows wild in half the country ditches in this state if you want cheap veggies.
//Of course you'd have to go to places like Adams and Juneau County for some of it...
 
2013-04-30 11:21:19 PM

KarmicDisaster: It is just going to be a pain in the butt that costs money for stores to manage this, especially for small stores that don't use a computer system or can't afford an upgrade to their software. The party of small government strikes again with a law that adds expensive regulations.


They're not really about small government. They just think big government should occupy itself with different things.
 
2013-04-30 11:21:32 PM

albatros183: I keep hearing about Wisconsin cheese but I've never seen it here is it only available in  Wisconsin  ?


It's available pretty much anywhere.  Next time you're at the supermarket take a look where some of the good cheeses were made.  I'd bet you'll find something from WI.  We've even got some cheese spread that gets out of state, like Kaukauna.  I know I've seen that stuff in many states.

You could also check out this list of WI cheese companies.

Contact one of them and ask how to get hold of their product. Many of them do mail orders, or can at least send you to another cheesemaker that does.

Also check out http://www.wisconsincheesemart.com/
 
2013-04-30 11:23:41 PM
Somebody has to buy that stuff.

The GOP is just pissed the isles are empty of Funyons all the time.
 
2013-04-30 11:24:30 PM

Ranger Rover: A lot of people making these mistakes and buying convenience foods or the can of corn as opposed to the fresh ears don't know how to shop smartly (it can be a downright science) and/or prepare food at home well or simply at all, and fall back on the shockingly overpriced convenience equivalents of relatively affordable food


How do you know this?

Because everyone on food stamps I know knows exactly how to cook and budget appropriately. The problem is cooking when you work 60 hours at two jobs and your partner works 40 hours at his.

/right, I forgot, everyone on food stamps is an unemployed lazy bum who is just too stupid to do it right
 
2013-04-30 11:25:58 PM
I hope this coincides with Obamacare kicking in because there will be a huge influx of salmonella and e.coli cases due to people not understanding they have to wash those things.
 
2013-04-30 11:27:39 PM

take_flight: phaseolus: FYI, the text of the bill:


The people of the state of Wisconsin, represented in senate and assembly, do
enact as follows:

1 Section 1. 49.79 (7m) of the statutes is created to read:
2  49.79 (7m) Pilot program limiting foods. (a) Subject to par. (b), the
3 department shall conduct a pilot program under which the department allows the
4 benefits under the food stamp program to be used only for foods, food products, and
5 beverages that have sufficient nutritional value. The department shall identify
6 specific foods, food products, and beverages, or general categories of foods, food
7 products, and beverages, that do not have sufficient nutritional value and shall
8 prohibit the use of benefits under the program for those foods, food products, and
9 beverages.
10 (b) If the department determines that it may not implement the pilot program
11 under par. (a) without a federal waiver, the department shall request a waiver from
12 the secretary of the federal department of agriculture and may not implement the
13 pilot program under par. (a) unless the waiver is granted and in effect.
14 Section 2. 227.01 (13) (tm) of the statutes is created to read:
15 227.01 (13) (tm) Relates to a pilot program under s. 49.79 (7m).
16 (End)

- from http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/ab110

This seems a little vague, and how will they enforce it?


once they have a list, enforcement is pretty easy if they use EBT cards
 
2013-04-30 11:28:05 PM

basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.


Me and my brother weren't able to get our government cheese to melt when we were growing up. I feel like I missed out on something great.
 
2013-04-30 11:29:25 PM

Bumblefark: Yeah, because politicizing public assistance down to the level of a person's diet isn't at all petty or spiteful, and is sure to make for some sound policy...


the politicians are probably getting some kickback from the vegetable growers
 
2013-04-30 11:30:51 PM
MY BODY, MY CHOICE!

*burp*
 
2013-04-30 11:30:53 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: people  say that like they personally get a bill each month.

IF, you pay taxes and don't any kind of refund (assuming you don't take any of the credits offered and actually get back MORE in federal taxes than you pay in) you portion of the bill is like what? a few dollars  a month?


I was going to joke around a bit, but you do realize that a lot of people actually have to pay taxes, right?
 
2013-04-30 11:31:53 PM

SCUBA_Archer: As long as the poors can keep trading these veggie stamps for packs of smokes outside of bodegas, I don't think anything will change with the world.


Pretty sure no one in Wisconsin call corner stores that. If you see someone doing that REPORT it instead coming here and parroting the GOP line
 
2013-04-30 11:31:59 PM

Peki: Ranger Rover: A lot of people making these mistakes and buying convenience foods or the can of corn as opposed to the fresh ears don't know how to shop smartly (it can be a downright science) and/or prepare food at home well or simply at all, and fall back on the shockingly overpriced convenience equivalents of relatively affordable food

How do you know this?

Because everyone on food stamps I know knows exactly how to cook and budget appropriately. The problem is cooking when you work 60 hours at two jobs and your partner works 40 hours at his.

/right, I forgot, everyone on food stamps is an unemployed lazy bum who is just too stupid to do it right


I'd be okay with a short class on smart shopping and budget management being made available to those who need it, even mandatory possibly. Many people didn't get that kind of common sense education from their parents like they should have. Many are not necessarily going to magically just "get it" if their benefits are more restricted.
 
2013-04-30 11:32:20 PM

penthesilea: Fresh foods are great, but don't keep well for very long.

Fresh foods also mean going to the grocery store more often.  Which means more time wasted and spending more money on gas or public transportation.  They hardly get anything to put towards food as it is and the politicians are trying to make it even more difficult to survive.

If the politicians really want to make fresh foods a big part of the plan then they need to give a lot more money.  They should triple it.
They never will, but they should.


Going to the grocery store more often? It's really that hard to go once a week, maybe even two? I completely understand what it's like to live on practically nothing (I worked two jobs in college, and ended up taking showers and staying at school until late at night to keep my electricity bill under $20 a month because I was that poor), but I live within walking distance of a grocery store, and within 3 miles of three more. If you live in a city, use cheap public transportation.

How do you economize on fresh fruits and veggies? Buy what's in sale or in season. Hard fruits and veggies will last up to two weeks or longer if they are stored properly. A bag of apples can be as cheap as $1.99 and bananas $.37 cents a pound. Buy the more expensive veggies frozen or canned (artichoke hearts are a much better value frozen). Most people don't even know how to shop or cook, and don't realize how far a few cheap, fresh ingredients can be stretched.
 
2013-04-30 11:33:13 PM

12349876: If you don't have a car and don't live close to a real grocery store, it's a real hassle to get it.


I walk to the grocery store.  1/4 mile away. Its also has a city bus that stops out front and a train stop thats 1/4 mile away as well.  Each offers low-fares for needy individuals.  Take your SNAP and your low income bus voucher to the store and pick up some fruits and vegetables.  I'm sorry, but feeding yourself is a responsibility of being a human.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: a parent comes home after a long and/or crappy shift, it IS easier to throw mac and cheese together than actually do the cooking for a more nutritious meal. Give the kid a PB&J sandwich + a pack of poptarts for lunch because it's fast and mornings can be a rush as it is.


If all of a sudden, the people in these urban "food deserts" started demanding fresh fruits and vegetables, stores would stock them.  Aside from catching people on their way to work and shoving an orange down their throat, what do you propose?

lolpix: Price per pound is only part of the equation. Fresh fruits and vegetables do not keep as long. This requires you to either spend more time preparing them for storage, or shopping more often.  Typically a bit of both. This takes time and energy expense, be that expense muscle, electricity, or bus fare, which are commodities in and of themselves.  Poor people don't necessarily lack for work either. A lot of poor work 40 to 60 hour weeks like the rest of us slobs. They just don't make enough to get by in the jobs they have. If they were smart, they'd quit their Wal-Mart gig and become investment bankers.


And again, i submit that fresh fruits and vegetables are not only better for your health, keep you full longer, are less expensive than and are more nutritious than crappy pre-packaged foods and meals.  The most pathetic argument I've heard as to why people eat crappy is due to fridge space.  Seriously. For $12, I buy a bunch of veggies, a lb of chicken and a box of multigrain pasta (Which is about $.70 more than the white, enriched pasta) and make a salad.  usually lasts me til Thursday.  You could sub beans for chicken and probably get 8 nutritious meals for $10.

If your argument is that someone with 5 kids, who works 80 hours a week doesn't have time to sit in the kitchen and make food all day, chances are they should have stopped at one kid.  You ask society to subsidize your life, dont be surprised when society feels that it has a vested interest in telling you how you should live it.
 
2013-04-30 11:33:28 PM

LessO2: The Government likely does that already. Silly Farker, Capitalism will ALWAYS trump health or safety.

If you want to get bootstrappy, strip the folks like Kraft, Pepsico, Nestle and Tyson of their tax subsidies. Do they get subsidies?, hell if I know, but they're big enough to have buddies on Capitol Hill, so it's very likely they do.


You do have a point, because we do subsidize the corn/soybean production in this country that makes calories cheap but leaves nutrients expensive.  Not to mention the rogering we're giving our farmland through monoculture practices.  However, need we further subsidize its consumption through SNAP purchases of processed and refined carbohydrates from corn and soy?  Nay, I say.  Nay.
 
2013-04-30 11:35:00 PM
So the Party that complained about changes the Obama administration made to school lunches to make them healthier is OK with passing legislation to makes those on Food Stamps eat healthier.
 
2013-04-30 11:36:35 PM

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


Up until you're getting sick from the estrogen they pump the cows with to keep them pregnant, sure. I'm not supposed to eat that shiat anymore, or bread, because both are actually making me fat as fark. And that's  whole-wheat bread and low-fat milk. Not even some kind of super-sugar milk concoction and white bread.

The big problem with this bill, though, is that healthy foods cost more. Nowhere in TFA do they mention SNAP  paying for how much more it costs...which means if that's your only food income, suddenly you might not have enough food anymore.
 
2013-04-30 11:37:23 PM

o5iiawah: I walk to the grocery store. 1/4 mile away. Its also has a city bus that stops out front and a train stop thats 1/4 mile away as well. Each offers low-fares for needy individuals. Take your SNAP and your low income bus voucher to the store and pick up some fruits and vegetables. I'm sorry, but feeding yourself is a responsibility of being a human.


Good for you.  You don't fit into my qualifiers.  Not everyone lives 1/4 mile from the grocery.  Not everyone has good direct public transportation from their house to the grocery.  But keep pretending everyone is as fortunate as you are.
 
2013-04-30 11:37:24 PM

Summercat: SCUBA_Archer: As long as the poors can keep trading these veggie stamps for packs of smokes outside of bodegas, I don't think anything will change with the world.

In California, SNAP benefits are now on an electronic card.


I'm not even certain paper food stamps exist any longer. Most states use EBT cards for TANF & SNAP benefits.
 
2013-04-30 11:37:53 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: albatros183: I keep hearing about Wisconsin cheese but I've never seen it here is it only available in  Wisconsin  ?

It's available pretty much anywhere.  Next time you're at the supermarket take a look where some of the good cheeses were made.  I'd bet you'll find something from WI.  We've even got some cheese spread that gets out of state, like Kaukauna.  I know I've seen that stuff in many states.

You could also check out this list of WI cheese companies.

Contact one of them and ask how to get hold of their product. Many of them do mail orders, or can at least send you to another cheesemaker that does.

Also check out http://www.wisconsincheesemart.com/


Very rarely I find myself loving living in buttfark central WI. I live within an hour of at least 4-5 of those dairies in your link, and I love me some fresh squeaky curds and some good aged sharp cheddar.
 
2013-04-30 11:39:29 PM

Peki: Ranger Rover: A lot of people making these mistakes and buying convenience foods or the can of corn as opposed to the fresh ears don't know how to shop smartly (it can be a downright science) and/or prepare food at home well or simply at all, and fall back on the shockingly overpriced convenience equivalents of relatively affordable food

How do you know this?

Because everyone on food stamps I know knows exactly how to cook and budget appropriately. The problem is cooking when you work 60 hours at two jobs and your partner works 40 hours at his.

/right, I forgot, everyone on food stamps is an unemployed lazy bum who is just too stupid to do it right


If your slashy is suggesting I said or implied that, you're just looking for a fight that I didn't start and don't want to give you.

As for where I'm getting the assertions I made, from about four years now of working with (and hanging out with) low-income populations in various capacities. I was a teacher first and then have spent the last couple of years in a legal clinic serving indigent clients and working mainly with families of young children. We talk about these things. Also, I'm learning the process myself. I grew up very comfortably, am now on a very limited budget (mostly because that's what you have to deal with when your job is helping poor people) and several of the things I talked about apply to myself as much as anyone else, and many friends in similar situations from similar backgrounds.

I was not meaning to imply at all that there are not varied populations of people receiving benefits for varied reasons. It looks like our experiences are different, but nowhere did I assert that people like the ones you're talking about don't exist.

But I guess the fact that everyone that you know budgets perfectly and are all fantastic chefs mean that the people that I know that aren't are irrelevant. One person's anecdotal evidence.....cancels out another's.
 
2013-04-30 11:40:07 PM
Since Republicans are doing this, there is probably some reason. This won't save taxpayers a dime, since people will still get the same amount of aid but will just spend it on other stuff, so cost savings is not the reason. I think that the real reason is the Republican desire to "punish" people that they don't like, just like their parents punished them. In this case, by making it harder for stores to comply with the program they will  force a lot of them to drop out of the program. That will make it harder and more time consuming for  the poor to travel to stores to buy things to eat, which is considered good in the Republican mindset since as they "know" the poor are all Blacks or Liberals that have been on welfare for their whole lives and need be punished and encouraged to move away. Did you know that Wisconsin imprisons more Blacks (by their proportion in the population) than any other state? That's the reason they are doing this.
 
2013-04-30 11:40:26 PM

freetomato: I'd be okay with a short class on smart shopping and budget management being made available to those who need it, even mandatory possibly. Many people didn't get that kind of common sense education from their parents like they should have. Many are not necessarily going to magically just "get it" if their benefits are more restricted.


Deal.

o5iiawah: If your argument is that someone with 5 kids, who works 80 hours a week doesn't have time to sit in the kitchen and make food all day, chances are they should have stopped at one kid.


Okay. Let's make it someone who works 80 hours a week and has one kid. Now what's your beef?

/hint: It's not about how many kids they have, or how much they work. You just don't want them on your dime, and you'll do whatever you want to make it as uncomfortable as possible.
 
2013-04-30 11:40:47 PM

1000 Ways to Dye: This is a problem, only because the Feds subsidize crap used in crappy foods, making healthy foods comparatively expensive. The primary reason people on food stamps buy crap is because that's all they can afford. All this will do is make it harder for more people to buy enough food to not be hungry.


This right here. Stop subsidizing crap at the source.


o5iiawah: If your argument is that someone with 5 kids, who works 80 hours a week doesn't have time to sit in the kitchen and make food all day, chances are they should have stopped at one kid


This from the party that wants to make abortion illegal and contraception harder to get.
 
2013-04-30 11:42:19 PM

o5iiawah: And again, i submit that fresh fruits and vegetables are not only better for your health, keep you full longer


Fat and bulk are he principal triggers for fullness (or satiation). Carbs, which generally have a lot of mass, and high fat foods will make you feel full sooner for longer. You can try this experiment for yourself. Try eating the fattiest part of your meal first for a few weeks. You will very likely to come find that when you do so, you don't finish your entire meal. Fat is not healthy, but it satiates.
 
2013-04-30 11:47:11 PM
Just sign them all up for Peapod & then they don't have to drive at all. Plus they get whatever is dumped off at their door.
 
2013-04-30 11:48:55 PM
o5iiawah: If your argument is that someone with 5 kids, who works 80 hours a week doesn't have time to sit in the kitchen and make food all day, chances are they should have stopped at one kid.

I know someone with 4 kids whose husband died at 37. It's not always irresponsibility. I also know someone with three kids whose husband tried to kill her, so she left. She couldn't collect a nickel in child support from the lazy ____.
 
2013-04-30 11:49:28 PM

12349876: Good for you.  You don't fit into my qualifiers.  Not everyone lives 1/4 mile from the grocery.  Not everyone has good direct public transportation from their house to the grocery.  But keep pretending everyone is as fortunate as you are.


ok, so who are these people who fit your qualifiers.  Give me a percentage of the population who is starving because for some reason, we can get power, light plumbing and SNAP to their house but there's no food stores anywhere.

Believe you me, if I could live out in the boonies, away from buses, trains and everything else, i would.  Nothing beats county fruit/veggie stands or even your own garden.  Seems the further you live from a food store, the better access you have to fruits and veggies.  Growing up in Sticks, FL that was always my experience anyways...
 
2013-04-30 11:51:06 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: Molavian: Oh, no.  How terrible!  I enjoy paying for people to eat shiat and get sick, and then pay for their healthcare, too!

people  say that like they personally get a bill each month.

IF, you pay taxes and don't any kind of refund (assuming you don't take any of the credits offered and actually get back MORE in federal taxes than you pay in) you portion of the bill is like what? a few dollars  a month?

compare that to the trillions in guaranteed loans to wall  street or the tax payer money that went to their bonuses  alone.

Family getting food vs, wall street douches getting their kitchen remodeled.

Which one do conservatives hate more? hmmmm


You're an idiot, people getting food stamps sickens me. Get a job, show up on time, do the work and go home. I don't care if it's, "a few dollars a month". It's my money and no one else deserves to have it. I'll pay taxes for a lot of things and I also think they are necessary, but if you can't get a job and figure out a budget, even at minimum wage, you farked up
 
2013-04-30 11:52:39 PM
As someone whovhas kids who grew up in the inner city of milwauke, and have seen what constitutes a meal on more than a few locations, i'd agree with this. The other problem is the lack of access to a decent grocery store in certain zip codes. When the closest thing is a gas station convenience store, the food choices are going to be garbage.
 
2013-04-30 11:53:57 PM

Ranger Rover: If your slashy is suggesting I said or implied that, you're just looking for a fight that I didn't start and don't want to give you.

As for where I'm getting the assertions I made, from about four years now of working with (and hanging out with) low-income populations in various capacities. I was a teacher first and then have spent the last couple of years in a legal clinic serving indigent clients and working mainly with families of young children. We talk about these things. Also, I'm learning the process myself. I grew up very comfortably, am now on a very limited budget (mostly because that's what you have to deal with when your job is helping poor people) and several of the things I talked about apply to myself as much as anyone else, and many friends in similar situations from similar backgrounds.


Nope. My slashie was meant as a general rant against the attitude, not meant to be taken personally.

My experience is with the low-income community in suburban Los Angeles. There's a lot of us here. The only reason most people can't resolve a budget is because they have 500 dollars, rent is 400, car is 100, and they wait on the electricity and water bills until they get a disconnect notice. That's not "not knowing how" to budget. That's being a position where budgeting skills won't help you no matter what you do. The problem is most people on the outside looking in can't tell the difference (see o5, for example), and so they come up with these rules to fight problems that have imaginary causes (the problem is real, the root is pure fiction).

I'm similar to you; I grew up upper middle class, now I'm dirt poor. Biggest problem I have is not knowing how to navigate the welfare systems to get what I need. I know there are programs out there that I might qualify for, but figuring out how to access them is beyond me. Not to mention my situation doesn't fit the boxes they like to give you. Example: They want to know how I pay for things. If I mention my fiance's income, then I have to submit his, his parents (as they claim him as a dependent), and my tax returns. Yeah, you go asking your mother-in-law for her tax returns and see what kind of answer you get. For disability, I needed to get 4 letters from my employer stating a) when I worked, b) what my weekly hours were, c) what my ending pay was, and d) what my last paycheck amount was (yes, in 4 separate letters, one letter with all the information wouldn't work). When I went to my employer, they said to talk to the temp agency. Temp agency said talk to the employer.
 
2013-04-30 11:56:05 PM
Great.  Now "My EBT" is stuck in my head.

/1778
 
2013-04-30 11:56:17 PM

o5iiawah: 12349876: Good for you.  You don't fit into my qualifiers.  Not everyone lives 1/4 mile from the grocery.  Not everyone has good direct public transportation from their house to the grocery.  But keep pretending everyone is as fortunate as you are.

ok, so who are these people who fit your qualifiers.  Give me a percentage of the population who is starving because for some reason, we can get power, light plumbing and SNAP to their house but there's no food stores anywhere.

Believe you me, if I could live out in the boonies, away from buses, trains and everything else, i would.  Nothing beats county fruit/veggie stands or even your own garden.  Seems the further you live from a food store, the better access you have to fruits and veggies.  Growing up in Sticks, FL that was always my experience anyways...


I'm not talking boonies here, I'm talking inner cities and poorly planned suburbias.  And I'm not talking about starvation, I'm talking access to a large selection of affordable fresh food.  You may be close to a 7-11 but not a Kroger or farmer's market.  I live 2 miles from a Kroger.  But if I wanted to get there on public transportation I'd have to travel about 10 miles and make a transfer.  My city's bus grid is largely hub and spoke downtown to one suburb and little connections between the suburbs.  It'd probably be faster for me to walk.  And of course in my Boobies on the subject, I clearly said a REAL HASSLE, which does not equal impossible.
 
2013-04-30 11:57:09 PM
Wisconsin will soon have the healthiest drug dealers in the nation.
 
2013-04-30 11:57:14 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Very rarely I find myself loving living in buttfark central WI.


Dude, move to Madison.  shiat rocks here.  Those cheese curds you love to squeak on?  I picked up a pound of freshly made ones at the farmer's market on Jenifer St. today.  Made at 4AM just outside town, just $5 a pound.  Lots of varieties too; got some with fresh dill seasoning today.  Didn't even have to drive, even though I live like 6 miles away.  Bike path all the way except for about 6 blocks from my house, and the last two blocks before the market.  Tons of young ladies out jogging/biking/skating/sunbathing along the way.  Lots of fit dudes with shirts off too, if you're into that, or if you're a rare internet girl.  Grabbed some coffee at one of the awesome coffee shops on Willy St before riding home.  Life's too short to not enjoy where you live.

/was a good day
//still a little amped up from the coffee
 
2013-05-01 12:00:56 AM
Still redeemable for crack.
 
2013-05-01 12:01:39 AM
It's nice to see Fark's pro veg moderates (or whatever leftists are called now) condemn plan because a most unsavoury repub brought the change.
 
2013-05-01 12:02:19 AM

Peki: Okay. Let's make it someone who works 80 hours a week and has one kid. Now what's your beef?

/hint: It's not about how many kids they have, or how much they work. You just don't want them on your dime, and you'll do whatever you want to make it as uncomfortable as possible.


I dont care that someone is on "My dime" as a state run food program for someone in a transition is a hallmark of a stable society. I get that.

We're constantly being told in regards to guns that rights come with responsibilities however with that we have to be fair andacknowledge that part of having the right to have 5 kids comes with the responsibility of trying to provide some level of sustenance for them. Your right to sleep with whomever you want and make your own sexual choices comes with the responsibility of bearing the costs associated with an "oops." That isn't punishing anyone - it is called expecting people who demand the freedom to make adult decisions deal with consequences of those decisions.


fusillade762: This from the party that wants to make abortion illegal and contraception harder to get


50 years and 5 republican presidents have gone by since RvW yet it is still the law of the land.  Your schtick is tired.  Oh, and which GOP nominee in the last election cycle wanted to ban contraception?  Hell one of them actually prescribes it regularly it in his medical profession.
 
2013-05-01 12:03:02 AM
I am a delivery driver for Coca Cola, I often deliver in the inner city.  Any time i'm in the hood, i witness 2-10 kids walk into a gas station and buy 20-60 dollars worth of chips, soda, candy, energy drinks... etc.

ALL on their parents QUEST card, I find it sad that they can buy all this shiat, yet they cant go to the local supermarket and buy a rotisserie chicken or a sub from Subway..

I'm personally all for this considering the amount of crap you can buy with the food stamps, I know stops that will give you CASH (50c to the Dollar) for your quest card money...

that said, PLEASE let this go through, I'm sick of seeing people spend the equivalent to a weeks worth of groceries for 2 people on junk food.
 
2013-05-01 12:03:02 AM

RockChalkH1N1: You're an idiot, people getting food stamps sickens me. Get a job, show up on time, do the work and go home. I don't care if it's, "a few dollars a month". It's my money and no one else deserves to have it. I'll pay taxes for a lot of things and I also think they are necessary, but if you can't get a job and figure out a budget, even at minimum wage, you farked up


4/10

TTH, dude.
 
2013-05-01 12:03:30 AM

Peki: freetomato: I'd be okay with a short class on smart shopping and budget management being made available to those who need it, even mandatory possibly. Many people didn't get that kind of common sense education from their parents like they should have. Many are not necessarily going to magically just "get it" if their benefits are more restricted.

Deal.

o5iiawah: If your argument is that someone with 5 kids, who works 80 hours a week doesn't have time to sit in the kitchen and make food all day, chances are they should have stopped at one kid.

Okay. Let's make it someone who works 80 hours a week and has one kid. Now what's your beef?

/hint: It's not about how many kids they have, or how much they work. You just don't want them on your dime, and you'll do whatever you want to make it as uncomfortable as possible.


Why WOULD you want them on your dime?
 
2013-05-01 12:04:07 AM

o5iiawah: I walk to the grocery store. 1/4 mile away. Its also has a city bus that stops out front and a train stop thats 1/4 mile away as well. Each offers low-fares for needy individuals. Take your SNAP and your low income bus voucher to the store and pick up some fruits and vegetables. I'm sorry, but feeding yourself is a responsibility of being a human.


You do realize that a lot of places don't offer low fare for needy individuals or have nearby public transportation, right? Or have proper, and by proper I mean a regular grocery store vs a convenience store, they can get to easily?

I mean, it's nice that your area has really good public transportation and your close to a grocery store, but for many people that's not the case.
 
2013-05-01 12:05:59 AM
In Michigan there's a program in place that gives double food assistance value if you spend it at select farm markets. I think that is an awesome way to encourage healthier eating.
 
2013-05-01 12:06:35 AM
I'm sure there's plenty left.

thepoelog.files.wordpress.com

Seriously, though, we should all eat more vegetables.

It helps you poop a lot better than cheese does.
 
2013-05-01 12:06:46 AM

o5iiawah: Yeah about that. Staple fruits and veggies are not that expensive.

Apples: $2/lb
Onions: $1/lb
Grapefruit: $1/ea
Mango: 2 for $3
2lb Bag of carrots: $2.99
Oranges: $1/ea
Limes: 3/$1


1.bp.blogspot.com

99 cents. Guessing it has more calories than a grapefruit.
 
2013-05-01 12:08:04 AM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Dingleberry Dickwad: Very rarely I find myself loving living in buttfark central WI.

Dude, move to Madison.  shiat rocks here.  Those cheese curds you love to squeak on?  I picked up a pound of freshly made ones at the farmer's market on Jenifer St. today.  Made at 4AM just outside town, just $5 a pound.  Lots of varieties too; got some with fresh dill seasoning today.  Didn't even have to drive, even though I live like 6 miles away.  Bike path all the way except for about 6 blocks from my house, and the last two blocks before the market.  Tons of young ladies out jogging/biking/skating/sunbathing along the way.  Lots of fit dudes with shirts off too, if you're into that, or if you're a rare internet girl.  Grabbed some coffee at one of the awesome coffee shops on Willy St before riding home.  Life's too short to not enjoy where you live.

/was a good day
//still a little amped up from the coffee


Madison sucks.  I wish we could scoop it out and put it in Illinois where it belongs.
 
2013-05-01 12:08:39 AM

RockChalkH1N1: You're an idiot, people getting food stamps sickens me. Get a job, show up on time, do the work and go home. I don't care if it's, "a few dollars a month". It's my money and no one else deserves to have it. I'll pay taxes for a lot of things and I also think they are necessary, but if you can't get a job and figure out a budget, even at minimum wage, you farked up


And this is the official line until the government unemployment numbers come out, at which point the official line becomes "OBUMMER DUN RUN ALL THE JOBS OFF WHAT DID YOU EXPECT HOPE AND CHANGE!!!"
 
2013-05-01 12:08:51 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Summercat: SCUBA_Archer: As long as the poors can keep trading these veggie stamps for packs of smokes outside of bodegas, I don't think anything will change with the world.

In California, SNAP benefits are now on an electronic card.

I'm not even certain paper food stamps exist any longer. Most states use EBT cards for TANF & SNAP benefits.


I'm provinceial as all get.

Also, ah, thanks for the TF? No clue why I got it @_@
 
2013-05-01 12:09:46 AM
I'm OK with this.  WIC does this already.
 
2013-05-01 12:10:05 AM
Go be poor somewhere else!
 
2013-05-01 12:10:35 AM
As a progressive, I support this, though I am concerned that they're effectively raising the price of food for persons on SNAP. One of junk food's biggest draws is that it is cheap. Even so, this is common sense--especially because they're not completely forbidding snack foods, but only limiting them.

That this isn't national policy is a testament to the political pull of Big Agribusiness and food processing. Which is in turn the main reason this won't spread beyond Wisconsin, and will probably be overturned even there within a few years. Whoever sponsored this bill obviously didn't get the memo from the national party leadership.

Major corporations pissed about this bill include but are not limited to Coca-Cola company, McKee foods (owners of the Little Debbie brand), PepsiCo (who owns not only Pepsi, but also Frito-Lay).And since we know corporations are people, and money is speech, you can count on these concerned citizens to persuasively express their opposition to these kinds of laws using purely logical arguments articulated in dollar signs.
 
2013-05-01 12:11:22 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: onions are sometimes. Not all fruits and veggies are expensive.


Don't even farking call onions "vegetables." That's like calling persimmon a "fruit" and sassafras an "herbal tea." Technically correct in name only.
 
2013-05-01 12:11:45 AM

bborchar: cheap public transportation.


In Chicago, a one way bus ride is 2.25. No transfers. So, provided you only have to take 1 bus, that's 4.50 round trip for one person to haul home a week's worth of groceries. Is it feasible that one person riding a bus can transport a week's worth of food for a family? What if a grocery store is 2 buses away? Make that 9.00 round trip. Low income people, with the exception of senior citizens, don't get discounted or free transportation. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about.
 
2013-05-01 12:11:51 AM

ZeroCorpse: In Michigan there's a program in place that gives double food assistance value if you spend it at select farm markets. I think that is an awesome way to encourage healthier eating.


Virginia, MD, and DC also do this.
 
2013-05-01 12:13:44 AM

albatros183: I keep hearing about Wisconsin cheese but I've never seen it here is it only available in  Wisconsin  ?


Yes.  You can't have any.
 
2013-05-01 12:13:52 AM

Somacandra: The All-Powerful Atheismo: onions are sometimes. Not all fruits and veggies are expensive.

Don't even farking call onions "vegetables." That's like calling persimmon a "fruit" and sassafras an "herbal tea." Technically correct in name only.


Does that apply to all onions, or just the yellow ones?
 
2013-05-01 12:14:03 AM

o5iiawah: Go ahead and eat healthy for a week. You'd be amazed how much your body doens't get salt/sugar cravings and how long something as stupid as an apple can go towards keeping you full for a while. I'm a 28 year old normal sized dude and a $.70 apple for breakfast tides me over just fine until Lunch.


Interesting; I eat apples because I know they're healthy, but eating an apple by itself makes me hungrier than I was before.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:06 AM

MemeSlave: Peki: freetomato: I'd be okay with a short class on smart shopping and budget management being made available to those who need it, even mandatory possibly. Many people didn't get that kind of common sense education from their parents like they should have. Many are not necessarily going to magically just "get it" if their benefits are more restricted.

Deal.

o5iiawah: If your argument is that someone with 5 kids, who works 80 hours a week doesn't have time to sit in the kitchen and make food all day, chances are they should have stopped at one kid.

Okay. Let's make it someone who works 80 hours a week and has one kid. Now what's your beef?

/hint: It's not about how many kids they have, or how much they work. You just don't want them on your dime, and you'll do whatever you want to make it as uncomfortable as possible.

Why WOULD you want them on your dime?


Because I'm a humanitarian that doesn't think people should die just because they can't afford food or healthcare. There are other consequences to having a large, underfed, underemployed, poor population, and I just don't think the insanely small amount that is paid comparatively in taxes are too much to avoid those consequences.

o5iiawah: Your right to sleep with whomever you want and make your own sexual choices comes with the responsibility of bearing the costs associated with an "oops." That isn't punishing anyone - it is called expecting people who demand the freedom to make adult decisions deal with consequences of those decisions.


The problem is that by punishing the parents you punish the kids. You're okay with starving children? On your conscience, buddy.
 
2013-05-01 12:14:46 AM

vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.


this.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:05 AM

Fart_Machine: I'm OK with this.  WIC does this already.


And to boot WIC is more of an equivalence of items rather than cash cost--that's better when nutrient-dense material like spinach, and asparagus are most costly.
 
JVD
2013-05-01 12:15:10 AM
They shouldn't be able to buy any food that they can't buy on the WIC (Women, Infants and Children) program. It is a very strict list of healthy foods.


Way to go Wisconsin.
 
2013-05-01 12:15:21 AM

Summercat: Also, ah, thanks for the TF?


You're welcome
 
2013-05-01 12:15:38 AM
Are there not free puppies and kittens for the poor?

t1.gstatic.com

/been on food stamps...mostly bought fruits and veggies anyway
 
2013-05-01 12:16:51 AM

RedPhoenix122: Does that apply to all onions, or just the yellow ones?


FARK ALL ONIONS. Except for the amounts necessary to create onion powder seasoning, all onions need to eat shiat and die post haste.
 
2013-05-01 12:17:51 AM
fark Wisconsin
 
2013-05-01 12:19:42 AM

JVD: They shouldn't be able to buy any food that they can't buy on the WIC (Women, Infants and Children) program. It is a very strict list of healthy foods.


I suppose if you count juice (essentially sugar) and starchy cereals  as healthy :-)....naw, WIC is alright--its a great program, I'd just rather see subsidies for vegetables rather than wheat and corn (just starch)
 
2013-05-01 12:20:11 AM

Peki: The problem is most people on the outside looking in can't tell the difference (see o5, for example),


The problem is you're such an insufferable wanna-be intellectual that you wouldn't know perspective if it ran over you with a car, backed over you and hit you again.  I didn't grow up rich or upper middle class like you, douchebag.

You might say that I didn't have "access" to food as a kid either. I grew up in a not great area and the closest food market was about 3 miles away.  Well guess what?  There were a lot of people in the neighborhood like that too and they came up with creative solutions like growing food in the neighborhood, organizing a co-op to get food delivered or even taking turns carpooling to the store.

Point is that people actually gave a shiat what they were feeding their kids.  The idea that people would rather feed their kids mac n cheez or spaghetti os instead of fresh fruit and veggies is appalling since there's absolutely no benefit in doing so.  Kids are hungry faster, get less nutrition and it is more expensive in food and healthcare costs later.  Equate it however you want but putting crap food in your body is the equivalent of going 15,000 miles over the suggested interval for your oil changes.  It simply costs more time, more money and more headache in the long run.

12349876: I'm not talking boonies here, I'm talking inner cities and poorly planned suburbias.  And I'm not talking about starvation, I'm talking access to a large selection of affordable fresh food.  You may be close to a 7-11 but not a Kroger or farmer's market.


Yeah, so show me people who subsist almost entirely off crap from 7/11.
You're manufacturing a problem that doens't exist.  People have plenty of access to affordable food. They choose not to eat it because it takes time to prepare when they get it home from the store and before they cook it.  Easier to put a box in the pantry and give the kids one of the 6 packages inside each day that to cut up a piece of fruit.  There's a gigantic market of people in urban areas who consume food. The reason stores may not stock as much fruits and veggies is because people are choosing not to eat it in favor of "hot bar" food and prepackaged meals.  If people all of a sudden demanded fresh fruits and vegetables, stores would stock it and prices would go down as more product can be delivered on the same truck that comes regardless
 
2013-05-01 12:20:19 AM

Peki: I'm similar to you; I grew up upper middle class, now I'm dirt poor. Biggest problem I have is not knowing how to navigate the welfare systems to get what I need. I know there are programs out there that I might qualify for, but figuring out how to access them is beyond me. Not to mention my situation doesn't fit the boxes they like to give you. Example: They want to know how I pay for things. If I mention my fiance's income, then I have to submit his, his parents (as they claim him as a dependent), and my tax returns. Yeah, you go asking your mother-in-law for her tax returns and see what kind of answer you get. For disability, I needed to get 4 letters from my employer stating a) when I worked, b) what my weekly hours were, c) what my ending pay was, and d) what my last paycheck amount was (yes, in 4 separate letters, one letter with all the information wouldn't work). When I went to my employer, they said to talk to the temp agency. Temp agency said talk to the employer.


I'm sympathetic. Although I do believe some degree of difficulty in obtaining benefits is justified due to the state's interest in keeping ineligible recipients off the rolls, I do agree this is unreasonable. What I don't know (and maybe you do) is how many of these situations like the ones you describe are due to a**holes in the benefits offices having bad days, or to redundancies and inefficiencies in the statutory scheme.

I don't work in our benefits department, but I know my office has one to help clients like you get the benefits they need. I just tried to search for one for you, and there are a few in Los Angeles County, but this seems like a good place to start: http://www.nlsla.org/programs/practices/administrative-law
Link is to the NLSLA's "Administrative Law Unit," which would be the practice area most likely to help clients navigate benefits claims issues.
 
2013-05-01 12:20:35 AM
was on food stamps for 5 months while unemployed, moved back home after my lease was up, found out i still had 50 some-odd dollars on my card, treated my parents to a nice steak dinner for allowing me to move back home for a period of time.

I also agree it should be more strict like WIC, and maybe have a certain percentage/amount allotted for "junk" foods
 
2013-05-01 12:20:51 AM

kombat_unit: It's nice to see Fark's pro veg moderates (or whatever leftists are called now) condemn plan because a most unsavoury repub brought the change.


You do realize it's the notion that they'll probably get the same amount of money, and that it has to be spent on more expensive food now, right?

Right?

Ah, forget it.  We could look to Detroit, MI, where they've been using vacant lots to build community gardens in the absence of decent grocery stores, but hey, people hear "community" and think "communist".  Because rolling up your sleeves and working as a team is un-American.  Just ask Rudy  Giuliani.
 
2013-05-01 12:21:17 AM

Bathia_Mapes: convenience store


Again, show me some numbers on people who eat almost exclusively from convenience stores.
 
2013-05-01 12:21:22 AM

KarmicDisaster: Since Republicans are doing this, there is probably some reason. This won't save taxpayers a dime, since people will still get the same amount of aid but will just spend it on other stuff, so cost savings is not the reason. I think that the real reason is the Republican desire to "punish" people that they don't like, just like their parents punished them.


I think  you're on to something, but I suspect a different motive: When the Governor of Florida wanted drug testing, it turned out that his wife owned drug testing facilities. I suspect the same motives here. Eventually, there will be an attempt to limit the purchases to one or two particular brands i.e. "Koch Brothers new Mango Cherry foodstuffs". Even better: have distribution centers, where people pick up their "approved" food. I'm sure quite a few people are salivating over that thought, a contract like that would be worth billions.

The GOP would be fine with poor people eating watered-down gruel. The only interest in limiting food choices is to steer contracts and sales a certain way. I'm guessing that many vegetable companies are backing Brinks Trucks full of dough into politicians' driveways.
 
2013-05-01 12:22:08 AM

PsiChick: The big problem with this bill, though, is that healthy foods cost more. Nowhere in TFA do they mention SNAP  paying for how much more it costs...which means if that's your only food income, suddenly you might not have enough food anymore.


politicalmadness.org
 
2013-05-01 12:25:42 AM

Infernalist: Great Janitor: Well, if the government is feeding you, don't they get a say in what you eat?

Sure, but they have to compensate for the price difference between 'cheap essentials' like rice, beans and milk and eggs and bread and lunch meats....and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies.  Because they'll quickly run out of benefits before the end of the month if they don't compensate for the higher prices of those healthy foods.


Nonsense as many have already posted veggies and fruit are not all that expensive, particularly if you are not buying the over priced organic stuff. I know carrots, bananas, strawberries etc are relatively cheap where I live and the store brand canned fruits and veggies are cheap also. The too expensive argument does not fly
 
2013-05-01 12:26:47 AM
Fresh fruit is expensive. It's not like it grows on trees you know.
 
2013-05-01 12:27:24 AM
KarmicDisaster: Since Republicans are doing this, there is probably some reason

Social engineering: Republicans love social engineering.  When they're the conductors.
 
2013-05-01 12:30:22 AM

Peki: The problem is that by punishing the parents you punish the kids. You're okay with starving children? On your conscience, buddy.


When you come to the debate with open warning that you dont expect people should bear any responsibility for their actions, including actions which have social consequence, then you're a lost cause.

I am not okay with starving kids, hence my post which you obviously completely ignored - but if said person demands society take care of their children, that is fine.  Society then must take care of the children in the way it sees fit.  This includesmaking sure the parents cant load them up with junk food and cheap crap.
 
2013-05-01 12:31:03 AM

hasty ambush: Infernalist: Great Janitor: Well, if the government is feeding you, don't they get a say in what you eat?

Sure, but they have to compensate for the price difference between 'cheap essentials' like rice, beans and milk and eggs and bread and lunch meats....and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies.  Because they'll quickly run out of benefits before the end of the month if they don't compensate for the higher prices of those healthy foods.

Nonsense as many have already posted veggies and fruit are not all that expensive, particularly if you are not buying the over priced organic stuff. I know carrots, bananas, strawberries etc are relatively cheap where I live and the store brand canned fruits and veggies are cheap also. The too expensive argument does not fly


So let me guess, you live in a state like Oregon, right? Because I used to live there, and it  was cheap. When I moved out to Nevada, though, I discovered very quickly that the  opposite is true. It's completely dependent on where you live...and on the fact that most junk food is made from heavily subsidized crops like corn and milk, and by heavily subsidized megacorporations, which drives price way down. You can eat for a week on two boxes of instant flavored oatmeal. You can't eat for a week on fourteen apples.
 
2013-05-01 12:32:24 AM

o5iiawah: They choose not to eat it because it takes time to prepare when they get it home from the store and before they cook it.


So how about a living wage and mandated work limits so everyone has the time to do it?

o5iiawah: There's a gigantic market of people in urban areas who consume food.


And at least in my city, drive to the suburbs to get it.  The city was basically begging for a grocery to be downtown, only got one (now two) a couple years ago, and even they're quite small.  And of course the high crime areas only have glorified gas stations.  And plenty of poorly planned suburbs that don't have much of anything close by.

o5iiawah: If people all of a sudden demanded fresh fruits and vegetables, stores would stock it and prices would go down as more product can be delivered on the same truck that comes regardless


There are billions of people in the world demanding fresh fruits and vegetables and aren't getting it.
 
2013-05-01 12:33:43 AM

o5iiawah: fusillade762: This from the party that wants to make abortion illegal and contraception harder to get

50 years and 5 republican presidents have gone by since RvW yet it is still the law of the land.  Your schtick is tired.


You're being willfully ignorant if you've missed all the "Death by a thousand" cuts being attempted on abortion at the state level.

Oh, and which GOP nominee in the last election cycle wanted to ban contraception?  Hell one of them actually prescribes it regularly it in his medical profession.

How quickly you forget.

Here's Santorum, a father of seven, during a 2011 interview with the CaffeinatedThoughts.com blog (emphasis mine):

"One of the things I will talk about that no president has talked about before is the dangers of contraception in this country, the whole sexual libertine idea. Many in the Christian faith have said, 'Well, that's okay. Contraception's okay.' It's not okay because it's a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."


And he also wants abortion banned:

Santorum: Favors amending the Constitution to ban abortion. He says that human life begins at conception and doctors who perform abortions should be charged as criminals. In his book, he compared women who have abortions to 19th-century slaveholders, writing that "unlike abortion today, in most states even the slaveholder did not have the unlimited right to kill his slave." In the past, Santorum supported allowing abortions in cases of rape or incest, but he now says no to those exceptions.

And just about every GOP candidate voiced their opposition to requiring insurance to pay for contraception. You think that's going to make it EASIER to get?
 
2013-05-01 12:33:54 AM

Musikslayer: KarmicDisaster: Since Republicans are doing this, there is probably some reason. This won't save taxpayers a dime, since people will still get the same amount of aid but will just spend it on other stuff, so cost savings is not the reason. I think that the real reason is the Republican desire to "punish" people that they don't like, just like their parents punished them.

I think  you're on to something, but I suspect a different motive: When the Governor of Florida wanted drug testing, it turned out that his wife owned drug testing facilities. I suspect the same motives here. Eventually, there will be an attempt to limit the purchases to one or two particular brands i.e. "Koch Brothers new Mango Cherry foodstuffs". Even better: have distribution centers, where people pick up their "approved" food. I'm sure quite a few people are salivating over that thought, a contract like that would be worth billions.


I support this initiative and I also don't particularly mind Michelle Obama's eat healthy crusade (to the extent that it seeks to influence public opinion rather than mandate law) but just to stir the pot here - why is that when she and other Dems propose these initiatives and regulate school lunches etc, they're saving America from the scourge of poor health and obesity, but when Republicans do it they're punishing people they don't like?

I could see some valid points being made here. Inviting them. Just saying that on the face of it, it's inconsistent partisan finger-pointing. When the people with THIS letter behind their names do it, yay!! When the people with the other letter behind their names do it.....crime against humanity. Of course, don't for a minute think I'm saying that both sides don't engage in this hear-what-they-want-hear logic. I'm just being sympathetic to the Republicans here because I would say that in this case the burden of proof is on the Dems as far as opposing eat-healthy measures on the part of the state.
 
2013-05-01 12:34:12 AM

PsiChick: nd on the fact that most junk food is made from heavily subsidized crops like corn and milk, and by heavily subsidized megacorporations, which drives price way down


Sounds like you just made the argument for ending corn/sugar/dairy subsidies. The Libertarian movement welcomes you.
 
2013-05-01 12:34:20 AM

o5iiawah: There were a lot of people in the neighborhood like that too and they came up with creative solutions like growing food in the neighborhood, organizing a co-op to get food delivered or even taking turns carpooling to the store.


Growing food requires additional water (remember, we're talking tight budgets here), space (gotta live in a house to have a decent garden that will yield enough to make a dent in your groceries), and time. Can you get decent yields without buying any kind of soil amendment or pest control? There are some additional costs. Coops here don't take food stamps, and carpooling.. . . I'm imagining 4 adults getting groceries for 4 families; it's an amusing visual, but I'll let you explain how that one could feasibly work.

Love the name calling, btw. Classy way to make your point.

Ranger Rover: I don't work in our benefits department, but I know my office has one to help clients like you get the benefits they need. I just tried to search for one for you, and there are a few in Los Angeles County, but this seems like a good place to start: http://www.nlsla.org/programs/practices/administrative-lawLink is to the NLSLA's "Administrative Law Unit," which would be the practice area most likely to help clients navigate benefits claims issues.


That looks. . . like it might actually help. Bookmarked. Ty!
 
2013-05-01 12:37:15 AM

o5iiawah: PsiChick: nd on the fact that most junk food is made from heavily subsidized crops like corn and milk, and by heavily subsidized megacorporations, which drives price way down

Sounds like you just made the argument for ending corn/sugar/dairy subsidies. The Libertarian movement welcomes you.


Well, yes, most people with a basic understanding of how our economy works want those subsidies to end, but since that's not going to happen in the realm of ever, it's a bad idea to force people to buy more expensive food without covering the extra expense.
 
2013-05-01 12:37:25 AM

Mija: Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.

Lactose intolerant people can't have dairy.


Yeah they can.  There is just some digestive unpleasantness associated with it.
 
2013-05-01 12:37:29 AM

o5iiawah: I am not okay with starving kids but if said person demands society take care of their children, that is fine. Society then must take care of the children in the way it sees fit. This includesmaking sure the parents cant load them up with junk food and cheap crap.


I haven't been behind everything you've said in this thread, but I'm behind this.
 
Euk
2013-05-01 12:38:56 AM
I guess they assume that all poor people all have access to working kitchens, pots, pans, plates, working sinks and the various things someone living the life above the poverty level takes for granted. You know, if the poor have it so great, why would anyone ever work?

Maybe if they just pulled up on their bootstraps hard, they'd be able to cook without access to some or all of that stuff. Maybe improvise a nice cooking area using a broken shopping cart and some copies of phone book no one uses anymore.
 
2013-05-01 12:39:29 AM

TheDirtyNacho: Fruits and veggies aren't that expensive and a banana goes a lot further nutritionally than say, a bag o' chips.

That said, these foods can be hard to come by for some people without transportation, so it should be paired with addressing the lack of quality food in impoverished areas.


Put a bag of chips next to a banana, come back two weeks later, and tell me which one is still edible.
 
2013-05-01 12:40:17 AM
if they can see EBT (or whatever) is being spent disproportionately on foods that are not healthy (or downright unhealthy), wouldn't it make sense that measures should be taken to ensure every dollar of assistance isn't followed by x100 in healthcare to treat heart disease and other problems stemming from a bad diet?

people that defend tax dollars going to kfc and taco bell don't make much sense to me.
some of them will claim that poor people don't have access to grocery stores, but i see them walk past the supermarket on the way to get junk food.

the biggest idiots will say i don't want my money paying for a heart attack because i hate poor people.
my family could not afford junk food when i was a kid. we probably ate out less than 3 times a year. bob's big boy on somebody's birthday....
 
2013-05-01 12:41:22 AM

Euk: I guess they assume that all poor people all have access to working kitchens, pots, pans, plates, working sinks and the various things someone living the life above the poverty level takes for granted. You know, if the poor have it so great, why would anyone ever work?

Maybe if they just pulled up on their bootstraps hard, they'd be able to cook without access to some or all of that stuff. Maybe improvise a nice cooking area using a broken shopping cart and some copies of phone book no one uses anymore.


I am pretty sure that Argumentum ad Appalachiam is a fallacy
 
2013-05-01 12:41:45 AM

TV's Vinnie: Krumet: You take Caesar's coin, you play by Caesar's rules.

Untilllll............

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 560x339]


"Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government...Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction."

18 USC § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Get in the jail.
 
2013-05-01 12:41:47 AM
It really amazes me that what Saudi Arabia is to oil, the United States is to food. We can literally produce more food than the population can possibly eat. We could basically give it away to poor people. And yet we treat it like its the last precious commodity we have because we'll be damned if poor people ever get anything for free without first humiliating them in the most awful ways.

Sad really.
 
2013-05-01 12:43:55 AM
Who do i report the stores scamming to? Theres a very widespread chain of grocery stores here that price things differently in different neighborhoods, which is fine i guess, from what i buy at least, the one i used to go to in the mexican neighborhood, avacados and tomatoes and peppers and cilantro were half the price compared to the store a few miles away in an upper middle class white neighborhood, and that one charges through the nose for trendier stuff like good olive oil and panko breadcrumbs. Why is a box of kikomans panko $1.59 at one and $3.99 at the other!??

Anyway, thats not the issue, where i moved now theres 2 close by, one in a white neighborhood which i HATE the layout of, its asinine, the cold section is in the middle of the store, theres no efficient route. The other one is in a black neighborhood and in addition to the store always being a mess ive noticed staple items, especially those with WIC stickers are priced higher than the other stores of the same chain in the area. I dont know how they get away with that. I mean really why is the same store brand 8oz brick of cheese going to be $2.24 at one store and $2.99 at one literally less than three miles away?

I think im done shopping that chain altogether, Woodmans and Trader Joes ftw.
 
2013-05-01 12:44:45 AM

Peki: That looks. . . like it might actually help. Bookmarked. Ty!


Not a problem. Glad to help, and hope it works out.

Even if you're not technically within their service area or income cut-off (and those are strictly applied, of necessity), in my experience with my own similar office, a call to their intake department (typically the main line listed) will get you at least some advice-and-counsel (a process for advising an otherwise unqualified candidate usually with a letter containing information) or at the very least direct you to an alternate organization that CAN help. Good luck!
 
2013-05-01 12:45:49 AM

12349876: So how about a living wage and mandated work limits so everyone has the time to do it?


That would involve a society where people are based on need, rather than productivity.  ergo a parent of two has more of a need than a single guy in college and should be paid more regardless of who is more productive.  That would never work.

fusillade762: How quickly you forget.


I didn't forget anything.  I know Santorum is against Contraception.  he can beat the drum all he wants in Church but as president he'd have no executive authority to ban it even if he felt he had the political capital to do so.  Your problem is you think an individual's personal feelings = what they would put into law.

fusillade762: And just about every GOP candidate voiced their opposition to requiring insurance to pay for contraception. You think that's going to make it EASIER to get?


Why should an insurance company be forced to provide birth control to a 34 year old woman who doens't want it? furthermore, what is preventing an individual who does want coverage to seek a provider that offers it?  You think that if someone isn't being given something for free, that they are being denied access to it.  Nobody was going to send shock troopers into Walgreens or CVS and start executing women who had birth control prescriptions.  Stop with the loony fear mongering asshattery.

fusillade762: You're being willfully ignorant if you've missed all the "Death by a thousand" cuts being attempted on abortion at the state level.


All of which are legal under RvW.  Safe, Legal and Rare is now Any time, anywhere, for any reason and at taxpayer expense.  Anything less, is an affront to women's rights.

12349876: And at least in my city, drive to the suburbs to get it.  The city was basically begging for a grocery to be downtown, only got one (now two) a couple years ago, and even they're quite small.  And of course the high crime areas only have glorified gas stations.  And plenty of poorly planned suburbs that don't have much of anything close by.


So it all comes down to how much do you value your health and your nutrition.  When an individual makes the choice to hit the drive through instead of whole foods, I'm not sure what you expect society to do about that.

12349876: There are billions of people in the world demanding fresh fruits and vegetables and aren't getting it.


and those billions live in countries which lack the infrastructure and government stability required for a market to exist.
 
2013-05-01 12:45:53 AM

o5iiawah: I am not okay with starving kids, hence my post which you obviously completely ignored - but if said person demands society take care of their children, that is fine.  Society then must take care of the children in the way it sees fit.  This includesmaking sure the parents cant load them up with junk food and cheap crap.


Hmm. You seem to think I think it's unreasonable to have limits on what parents can spend money on. I don't. I mentioned upthread about how I wasn't surprised, wasn't upset, just curious, when the store wouldn't let me buy a Monster with my food stamps. They shouldn't have. I'm totally OK with that.

But the thing is these regulations get shoved through without any attention as to wtf is actually going on in the real world. "People are fat, so they must not know how to eat smart" fades away when you realize that there may be institutional barriers to get the food that you are so helpfully steering them towards. "Get exercise" is part of a healthy lifestyle, but worthless to someone who doesn't have the energy to lift a finger after working 7 days a week.

There's the help that you see fit to give, and then there's help that actually helps. This is why I don't ask for handouts from people at my church; it would only be temporary, and wouldn't help me in the long run. Instead, I asked to plant a garden, to help not only me but everyone in the congregation.
 
2013-05-01 12:46:12 AM

theMightyRegeya: kombat_unit: It's nice to see Fark's pro veg moderates (or whatever leftists are called now) condemn plan because a most unsavoury repub brought the change.

You do realize it's the notion that they'll probably get the same amount of money, and that it has to be spent on more expensive food now, right?

Right?

Ah, forget it.  We could look to Detroit, MI, where they've been using vacant lots to build community gardens in the absence of decent grocery stores, but hey, people hear "community" and think "communist".  Because rolling up your sleeves and working as a team is un-American.  Just ask Rudy  Giuliani.


How is saying that you have to spend the majority of your food stamp money on meats, veggies, fruits and breads and less on junk food going to cost more money?  No where did it say the fruits and vegetables had to be fresh, frozen or canned appears to be fine.  Nothing against day old bread, nothing against store brand or even against where the food has to be bought.  So those on food stamps in Wisconsin could shop at the 99 cent store for their fruits and vegetables.  All this bill says is that if you are on food stamps, we want you to eat food with real nutrition and shiat like candy bars and soda.  And to be honest, I don't see an issue with this.  It's like when I was a kid and my parents would fix dinner and I'd make a comment about not being in the mood for what was being cooked, and my parents would say "We buy the food, we decide dinner.  Don't like it, buy your own food."  It's the same here.  The government pays for your food, the government gets a say in how much candy, sodas and junk food you can buy.  Don't like it?  Well, no one is actually forcing you to get food stamps.

Those who are against this happening have assumed that it has to be fresh only and more expensive.  Those words that appear in TFA.  Go to TFA and do a control-f and type in the word 'fresh'.  It doesn't appear in the article.  I'm wondering if there would be this much hate from it if it was a Democrat who suggested it?  Didn't Michelle Obama say something about wanting healthier meals for children, less junk food?  Here a Republican suggested that for those who eat food paid for by the state, and people have issue with it?  If it reduces obesity and diabetes in the poorer areas (the ones who really can't afford healthcare), why is this an issue?  I say expand this into Welfare as well.
 
2013-05-01 12:46:53 AM
Somehow people can take buses all over the place and get Coke, pretzels, Doritos, gum and candy, and that's OK.  Yet asking them to make the same trip, but get frozen carrots, peas, milk, some cans of beans and a small bag of flour is a hardship.

NOWHERE in that bill does it say the food has to be 'fresh'. It just has to have 'high nutritional value'.

And I'll be damned if I can understand how asking people to eat better is an attack on the poor.
 
2013-05-01 12:48:05 AM
lcdn.cooksillustrated.com
You onion haters be trippin'
 
2013-05-01 12:48:32 AM
I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.
 
2013-05-01 12:50:25 AM

o5iiawah: Bathia_Mapes: convenience store

Again, show me some numbers on people who eat almost exclusively from convenience stores.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
 
2013-05-01 12:50:49 AM

Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.


man that'd piss me off if I saw that. Glad we put up that electrified fence to keep the poors out of the hood
 
2013-05-01 12:55:21 AM
We need some clarification on Skrimp eligibility under the new guidelines.
 
2013-05-01 12:55:35 AM

Peki: Love the name calling, btw. Classy way to make your point


I only name call when it gets brought first.  You fired the first snarky salvo calling me some heartless bastard who has no idea how the other half lives.  Not only are you misinformed but you arent as smart as you think you are.

Peki: Growing food requires additional water


Rain barrel systems are unbelievably cheap

Peki: Can you get decent yields without buying any kind of soil amendment or pest control?


yes my parents grow more avocados, tomatoes, green pepper, red pepper and string beans in a 15x15 garden than they know what to do with.

Peki: I'm imagining 4 adults getting groceries for 4 families; it's an amusing visual, but I'll let you explain how that one could feasibly work.


its called what we did for 10 years that I grew up.  But you grew up in the burbs to an upper middle class family so you wouldn't know how us salty folk got by.

Euk: I guess they assume that all poor people all have access to working kitchens, pots, pans, plates, working sinks and the various things someone living the life above the poverty level takes for granted. You know, if the poor have it so great, why would anyone ever work?


Wait, who doesn't have access to pots and pans?  are some people really trying to make this argument?
 
2013-05-01 12:57:25 AM

Cyno01: o5iiawah: Bathia_Mapes: convenience store

Again, show me some numbers on people who eat almost exclusively from convenience stores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert


Don't you be linkin' no facts!

/This thread inspired me to drunkenly get off my ass and attempt to cook something.
 
2013-05-01 01:00:31 AM

Peki: Hmm. You seem to think I think it's unreasonable to have limits on what parents can spend money on. I don't. I mentioned upthread about how I wasn't surprised, wasn't upset, just curious, when the store wouldn't let me buy a Monster with my food stamps. They shouldn't have. I'm totally OK with that.


the terms of the bill would exclude food items bereft of nutritional value from qualifying for the SNAP plan.  You think Monster energy shouldn't be on there. I agree with this.  I agree with everything this law says.  because a republican is introducing the plan means liberals like you are butthurt about it.

Ranger Rover: I haven't been behind everything you've said in this thread, but I'm behind this.


It doens't stop there.  Nanny cities like NY and SF that decided to operate extensive public health clinics quickly found that they also have a vested interest in people's health to keep costs down.  I dont care one way or the other since if a city wants to establish public health it is their right to do so but the people who live there shouldn't be surprised when the salt disappears from the restaurant table, you cant get a 16oz soda and smokes are $10/pack
 
2013-05-01 01:02:19 AM

o5iiawah: You fired the first snarky salvo calling me some heartless bastard who has no idea how the other half lives.


Ctrl-F "heartless bastard". I only said that you're the one who has to live with your conscience. If you're totally okay with how you feel about the issue, then your response should have been, "And I'll sleep just fine, thank you."

o5iiawah: Rain barrel systems are unbelievably cheap


Difficulty: Requires rain, storage facilities.

o5iiawah: its called what we did for 10 years that I grew up.  But you grew up in the burbs to an upper middle class family so you wouldn't know how us salty folk got by.


Nope, don't, but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot more poor (pure numbers) out here in the burbs than were in your area.

o5iiawah: Wait, who doesn't have access to pots and pans?  are some people really trying to make this argument?


I live in a house, have no access to a kitchen, and bathroom access is. . .touchy.

/have to tiptoe around a meth/heroin addicted SIL who believes the bathroom is hers whenever she wants, and she'll break windows and mirrors if she doesn't get it, and the MIL is a moral vegan who banned me from the kitchen for daring to cook chicken
//yeah, I know my situation is a bit unusual, but there it is, nonetheless
///I'd trade my first-world problems for a couple of the third-world ones
 
2013-05-01 01:02:22 AM

Summercat: Cyno01: o5iiawah: Bathia_Mapes: convenience store

Again, show me some numbers on people who eat almost exclusively from convenience stores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert

Don't you be linkin' no facts!

/This thread inspired me to drunkenly get off my ass and attempt to cook something.


not much in the way of facts in that Wiki article about where these places are

http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-access-research-atlas/go- to -the-atlas.aspx#.UYChwcpkgWd
 
2013-05-01 01:02:47 AM
What i would like to know is how the propose to enforce this?  any electronic tracking method is going to be a nightmare and expensive to both the state and the grocery stores.
 
2013-05-01 01:04:16 AM
o5iiawah:

Wait, who doesn't have access to pots and pans?  are some people really trying to make this argument?

My brother's friend lived in a tiny apartment w/ no kitchen whatsoever for a year or so. He had a mini fridge and a microwave. He ate out every night.
 
2013-05-01 01:05:40 AM

grimlock1972: What i would like to know is how the propose to enforce this?  any electronic tracking method is going to be a nightmare and expensive to both the state and the grocery stores.


I learned in a thread about a similar topic a few weeks ago that one of our fellow farkers actually worked on the database where the UPC (and other) info is stored and matched to the category, brand, etc of the food. Apparently it's very easy to do with EBT cards
 
2013-05-01 01:05:42 AM

Cyno01: o5iiawah: Bathia_Mapes: convenience store

Again, show me some numbers on people who eat almost exclusively from convenience stores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert


As long as Wikipedia is the foremost authority on life, the universe and everything, read their bullet points on access defined.

2 of the 3 are already being addressed thanks to SNAP and nutritional awareness programs, the other, relates to how far a store is from an individual - which begs the question:

Since we have decided that these food deserts are a problem, what is the plan for ensuring that a person who has no car, no money and no idea how to make smart choices on how to feed himself, has proper food?
 
2013-05-01 01:06:33 AM

Trocadero: o5iiawah:

Wait, who doesn't have access to pots and pans?  are some people really trying to make this argument?

My brother's friend lived in a tiny apartment w/ no kitchen whatsoever for a year or so. He had a mini fridge and a microwave. He ate out every night.


take him camping for a week.
 
2013-05-01 01:08:30 AM

o5iiawah: because a republican is introducing the plan means liberals like you are butthurt about it.


Ctrl-F "Republican". Does not appear in any of my posts. I simply want food stamps to actually help people without stupid regulations from people who have no idea wtf they are talking about, don't care if it's a rich Democrat or a poor Republican.

Huh. A liberal who doesn't want the government over-regulating something just because. Your mind a little blown over there?
 
2013-05-01 01:09:36 AM

Void_Beavis: It really amazes me that what Saudi Arabia is to oil, the United States is to food. We can literally produce more food than the population can possibly eat. We could basically give it away to poor people. And yet we treat it like its the last precious commodity we have because we'll be damned if poor people ever get anything for free without first humiliating them in the most awful ways.

Sad really.


It is sad,  but it's also hopelessly, helplessly unavoidable and inextricably intertwined with aspects of the American personality that aren't all bad, like freedom, independence, and healthy distrust of government. Food is the fruit of labor, and handing out the fruit of another labor's for free to any taker is antithetical to American values. That's not to say some compromise isn't available and that strides shouldn't be taken toward it, but I think saying something like "we grow enough food here to feed everyone for free" is like saying "world peace should happen."

Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't lose any sleep over this generally. The other day I was watching an old episode of Chopped and something hit me and I just sat there marveling at the fact that I live in a world where people are starving and dying because of the lack of basic sustenance, and in that same world other people are sitting on thrones criticizing the lack of red onions in a dish that was "too dry" but otherwise would have been saved by the onions. And doing it with the most serious, entrusted-with-a-noble-duty looks on their faces. It's amazing, it really is.

But I think what it comes down it is the concept of aggregate evil. I hate to Godwin this thread up, but it seems unlikely to me, for example, that the Holocaust was solely the product of a conscious decision on the part of the whole to be super evil and kill all of the Jews. Of course, there were a crazy few up at the top, but in the day-to-day, it came down to the actions of discrete individuals who were not accounting for the actions of others in the sum total of the evil that was perpetrated. With starvation in the world today, it's not like there is group of people sitting in Washington rubbing their hands together and asking how best they can kill poor people. It's a subsidy here, giving into a lobbyist there, a tax law here, a statutory modification to the welfare scheme there. And each discrete element is the product of a political system about which there are plenty of good things to say. So, it's a tough balancing act. But I think we have to acknowledge that as much of a virtue as providing free food to people upon request may be, there is a baby that we might be throwing out with the bathwater.
 
2013-05-01 01:11:22 AM

ausfahrk: TV's Vinnie: Krumet: You take Caesar's coin, you play by Caesar's rules.

Untilllll............

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 560x339]

"Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government...Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction."

18 USC § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Get in the jail.

news.onepoll.com 
It! iS! NOT! oV-ER-ThROw! It!! PeST! cON-TrOLL!
 
2013-05-01 01:11:36 AM

ausfahrk: TV's Vinnie: Krumet: You take Caesar's coin, you play by Caesar's rules.

Untilllll............

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 560x339]

"Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government...Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction."

18 USC § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Get in the jail.

 
It! iS! NOT! oV-ER-ThROw! It!! PeST! cON-TrOLL!
 
2013-05-01 01:14:05 AM

Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.


...And, that's precisely why it's a piss poor idea to politicize the diets of food stamp recipients.

They pull a package of oreos out of their shopping cart, and the busybody behind them screams "OMG JUNK FOOD! THE POORS NEED TO EAT BETTER!"

They pull out a package of shrimp, and the next busybody screams, "OMG FINE FOODS! THE POORS ARE EATING TOO WELL!"

Only in America can we as a society give so little to the poor, and be such self-righteous overbearing pricks about it...
 
2013-05-01 01:16:24 AM

o5iiawah: 12349876: Good for you.  You don't fit into my qualifiers.  Not everyone lives 1/4 mile from the grocery.  Not everyone has good direct public transportation from their house to the grocery.  But keep pretending everyone is as fortunate as you are.

ok, so who are these people who fit your qualifiers.  Give me a percentage of the population who is starving because for some reason, we can get power, light plumbing and SNAP to their house but there's no food stores anywhere.

Believe you me, if I could live out in the boonies, away from buses, trains and everything else, i would.  Nothing beats county fruit/veggie stands or even your own garden.  Seems the further you live from a food store, the better access you have to fruits and veggies.  Growing up in Sticks, FL that was always my experience anyways...


Google food desert and learn something. Grocery stores don't stay open in poor neighborhoods typically, and for someone without a car even in a city known for good public transit going two miles to the store can end up taking over thirty minutes each way on a bus each way, limits the amount of food that can be purchased in a trip significantly, and will cost about five dollars here.

So two trips to the store per week, just in bus fares, can end up being $40 per month.

There are real reasons that this is an issue. I'm glad for you that you haven't been in those shoes, but you might want to read up on the topic a little more.
 
2013-05-01 01:17:09 AM

Cyno01: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert


The map on USDA.gov is an absolute joke. There's areas near where i live in PA that arent rich by any stretch but have adequate road and transit access to stores, markets, big box retailers - you name it.  Hell, they list a food desert as being within 1 mile of the largest mall in the USA, which in the same complex is a Wal-Mart, CostCo, target and a Wegmans.  Furthermore, there's areas of Bucks County that are miles of country road from the nearest store and arent listed as a desert.  might as well call it Pensyltucky...

Peki: Huh. A liberal who doesn't want the government over-regulating something just because. Your mind a little blown over there?


If you're going to expect the state pick up the tab for feeding kids, paying medical bills, and providing nutritional assistance to families, dont be surprised when they want to pass laws concerning what they want people to be eating.
 
2013-05-01 01:18:16 AM
There are a few reasons people on foodstamps buy lousy food- one is it's cheap.  Another is it tastes good.  A third is poor people don't always have proper kitchens (I lived in a $50 a week hotel once.  I had a cube fridge and a sink).  There is also an educational component.

You could subsidize healthier food.  You could subsidize public food preparation areas (there are lots of ways to do this, even something as simple as changing how we tax land could help- right now a landlord has to balance improving housing against higher tax liabilities, changing taxes to tax land more than the buildings on them might mean more kitchens).  You could offer free cooking classes for healthy food in poor neighborhoods.  You could fund food pantries with healthy food.  You could give tax breaks for supermarkets to build in poor neighborhoods.  You could give coupons for healthy food with your receipt when people check out at the supermarket.  Most of these things are low cost.  You could give them cash incentives to meet certain health goals (like losing weight- some insurance plans already do this because it saves money in the long run.  Some of them are even revenue neutral.  None of them treat poor people like children or make them want to eat the rich.

Eat the rich.
 
2013-05-01 01:18:18 AM
What you easily distracted morans fail to understand is that implementing any type of policing of food stamps will cost way more than it will ever save.  People trade food for 50 cents on the dollar now ffs.

Just give poor people food. Even junk food.

Meanwhile, the wealthy guy down the street just paid some guy a six figure salary to figure out how to dodge paying his fair share of taxes.
 
2013-05-01 01:18:43 AM
Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.
 
2013-05-01 01:19:40 AM
if states want recipients to receive best value they should survey the family and have a package delivered to them weekly. bulk purchasing would = more value for the money. delivery would help those who can't easily get around. no stamps = junkies aren't selling them for change on the dollar.
 
2013-05-01 01:22:53 AM

Infernalist: Sure, but they have to compensate for the price difference between 'cheap essentials' like rice, beans and milk and eggs and bread and lunch meats....and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies. Because they'll quickly run out of benefits before the end of the month if they don't compensate for the higher prices of those healthy foods.


Know how I know you didn't read TFA? The headline only mentions fruits and vegetables, but the article talks about whole foods in general -- recipients must "spend at least two-thirds of their monthly benefits on items such as milk, bread and vegetables."
 
2013-05-01 01:23:02 AM

Bumblefark: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

...And, that's precisely why it's a piss poor idea to politicize the diets of food stamp recipients.

They pull a package of oreos out of their shopping cart, and the busybody behind them screams "OMG JUNK FOOD! THE POORS NEED TO EAT BETTER!"

They pull out a package of shrimp, and the next busybody screams, "OMG FINE FOODS! THE POORS ARE EATING TOO WELL!"

Only in America can we as a society give so little to the poor, and be such self-righteous overbearing pricks about it...


Yup. You can apply this same shiat to healthcare too.
 
2013-05-01 01:23:49 AM
I'm in Madison and it would be easy enough for me to say that this should be law.  Aside from the Farmer's Market every Saturday morning we have Metcalfe's (gourmet grocery store with a seafood case to die for), Trader Joe's, Copps, Hy-Vee, Woodman's, Aldi, and the co-ops.  All are on bus lines and have at least a basic selection of fresh veggies, fruits, and meat.

The Inner City of Milwaukee though isn't as lucky: there's maybe one chain supermarket to serve 150,000 or so people, and it goes without saying that the place is probably picked clean much of the time.  What's left for food are these pathetic little shiatholes that are just sad.  And many rural counties don't fare well in food availability either.

Nutritious food has to be made accessible before you mandate its purchase.  Once you do that, I think we should allow 15% on each Quest card for junk food, soda, etc.: remember that most people on food stamp benefits have paid into the system as well
 
2013-05-01 01:24:56 AM

davidphogan: Google food desert and learn something. Grocery stores don't stay open in poor neighborhoods typically, and for someone without a car even in a city known for good public transit going two miles to the store can end up taking over thirty minutes each way on a bus each way, limits the amount of food that can be purchased in a trip significantly, and will cost about five dollars here.

So two trips to the store per week, just in bus fares, can end up being $40 per month.

There are real reasons that this is an issue. I'm glad for you that you haven't been in those shoes, but you might want to read up on the topic a little more.


I know exactly what a food desert is and I think the criteria for defining one is absurd - for reasons above.
I've also "been in those shoes"

If progressives are going to make the argument that supply is a function of demand, then they need to admit that food retailers in low income areas are simply providing what people are demanding.  I would argue that if every low income individual demanded quality food, fresh vegetables and healthy meat, stores would stock it and that sad, depressed looking shelf of overpriced bananas would now be a display bin full of bananas which turn over freshly and are cheaper because the store can buy in bulk.
 
2013-05-01 01:27:38 AM

eggrolls: Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.


I've been told that work as a component of public assistance is some sort of racist dogwhistle.  Careful how you tread.
 
2013-05-01 01:30:14 AM

eggrolls: Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.


*Always* hilarious when the capitalist revenge fantasy goes far enough around the bend that it becomes more or less indistinguishable from the practice of communism.
 
2013-05-01 01:33:27 AM

Bumblefark: eggrolls: Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.

*Always* hilarious when the capitalist revenge fantasy goes far enough around the bend that it becomes more or less indistinguishable from the practice of communism.


3 right turns = a left. :)
 
2013-05-01 01:38:47 AM

skullkrusher: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

man that'd piss me off if I saw that. Glad we put up that electrified fence to keep the poors out of the hood


Bumblefark: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

...And, that's precisely why it's a piss poor idea to politicize the diets of food stamp recipients.

They pull a package of oreos out of their shopping cart, and the busybody behind them screams "OMG JUNK FOOD! THE POORS NEED TO EAT BETTER!"

They pull out a package of shrimp, and the next busybody screams, "OMG FINE FOODS! THE POORS ARE EATING TOO WELL!"

Only in America can we as a society give so little to the poor, and be such self-righteous overbearing pricks about it...


Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass
 
2013-05-01 01:39:00 AM
Me and my wife get SNAP(food stamps) have to with 5 kids I went from a $25 hr job to a $12 hr job,both me and my wife work full time always have me since i was 14. we make dinner every night no steak and lobster. but stews,meat loaf,pork chops, potatoes,corn, green beans just homemade food yea we buy chips and pop. I think maybe the people who are trying to tell me what to eat or the people saying I live the taxes payers dollars maybe should look where the $200,000 a year paycheck comes from I pay taxes that means I pay for them but they can eat what they want go where they want all while writing it down on the tax payer bill.
 
2013-05-01 01:40:48 AM
I can get behind this type of regulation. SNAP already disallows purchase of ready to eat prepared foods (like deli sandwiches) and alcoholic beverages. I see no reason that ready to eat can't be expanded to include things like chips, cookies, boxed meal kits and frozen dinners.

There is a direct correlation between what a person eats and their health, and if they qualify for SNAP, it is highly likely they are also on medicaid or the kids are on CHIP. Regulations like this can actually save billions long term.

And I live in a very rural area. I am over an hour drive from the nearest large grocery store with a decent selection. And I am definitely in a produce desert. All I have to choose from locally is generally apples, celery, carrots, onions, iceberg lettuce, bananas, and either strawberries or blueberries. The prices on everything in the tiny local store average 60% higher than the store that is an hour away.

Solution? I can't drive an hour one way all the time, due to time constraints (not to mention how wasteful financially that would be). So I go once a month. I plan my menu out for the entire month before my trip. I purchase a mix of fresh and frozen produce. The fragile stuff gets eaten first, the hardier veggies and fruits with longer shelf life get eaten in week two (and some, like carrots and potatoes, well into week three), and the last week or so of the month I utilize the frozen stuff. I don't purchase many convenience foods, because when I do, my kids eat constantly, are sick all the time, and my grocery bill for a family of seven on mostly whole foods is around $750 per month. If I buy the common convenience foods, like frozen entrees and chips (which I've had to do in the past, most recently when we were moving and my kitchen was still mostly packed) it jumps to around $1100 per month. That is a vast difference. When I say I buy mostly whole foods, I do buy things like healthy cereals, pasta, and ketchup (seriously, who makes their own ketchup?).

I'm not trying to sound like some kind of sanctimonious biatch. I'm just pointing out that there are different ways of approaching food that make this very doable, even for the poor who work full time. I work full time with five kids, and I am self employed which for me means I work some pretty crazy hours. My answer to that is to prepare a bunch of meals and freeze them on my days off. Two to three days doing that and I have at least 25 dinners in the freezer ready to pop into the oven or crockpot. I make homemade bread but have honed my system so it takes less than 5 minutes each day to ensure we have sandwich bread, because I make my dough in large batches and freeze the formed, unbaked loaves.

That said, I actually enjoy my time in the kitchen and completely understand that some people would rather stab themselves in the eye with a pen than make a meal from scratch, but I'm chalking that one up in the "we all have to do things we don't like" category. I mean, I hate to clean and have little time to do it, but I do it. I'm not off spending federal and state dollars to hire a housekeeper. And when you are buying a crapton of convenience foods with SNAP, that is kind of what you are doing.
 
2013-05-01 01:42:20 AM

Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass


Yeah, I have. Next question?
 
2013-05-01 01:45:44 AM
The same twits biatching about this would have applauded if a Democrat had sponsored it.

Its a good solid idea. No candy, no soda, no chips, no junk food on Food stamps. Don't like it..well, get a job and by your twinkies with cash, Fatty.
 
2013-05-01 01:47:34 AM

Peki: Bumblefark: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

...And, that's precisely why it's a piss poor idea to politicize the diets of food stamp recipients.

They pull a package of oreos out of their shopping cart, and the busybody behind them screams "OMG JUNK FOOD! THE POORS NEED TO EAT BETTER!"

They pull out a package of shrimp, and the next busybody screams, "OMG FINE FOODS! THE POORS ARE EATING TOO WELL!"


So, what about this? I've heard before (wish I could verify with a source) of delivery programs, and even think that they have been implemented with some success in certain areas which would lend themselves to such programs being practicable. Under this scheme, an eligible household would get biweekly or monthly delivery of staples - beans, rice, canned foods, even frozen foods. A dream system would even enable specific households to register a preference for certain goods - my kid loves this, more of it please, my kid is allergic to this, none of it please. Since the goods are staples, no issues with Oreos or lobsters, and hopefully, overall, no or few issues with junk food/luxury food gripes.
Obviously, there are issues. Dairy and meat are out, or used quickly, but as I don't know if it's the responsibility of the state to provide more than basic income or supplement what people can otherwise get, that doesn't particularly bother me. It would be expensive, and some would consider it intrusive (not me, I think those who advocate complete freedom in the spending of public benefit are wackos, but some would). There are ways to keep expenses down, though, perhaps by coordinating it to some extent with postal routes, or restricting it only to whose who are registered violators of the basic system and its freedoms.
Thoughts on this as a proposal/any experience with or knowledge of any ways it has been attempted?
 
2013-05-01 01:47:48 AM

o5iiawah: Wait, who doesn't have access to pots and pans?


After I got divorced I moved into a studio apartment. It has a mini fridge, a microwave and a hotplate. After 11 months, I have not yet bought any pots or pans. I usually work 12 hours a day (drive a taxi), so I eat my one meal a day wherever I happen to be when I get hungry.

Popular Opinion: take him camping for a week.


No thanks. My apartment DOES have a bed.
 
2013-05-01 01:50:24 AM
We hate big government! So lets force the big government to require us to purchase certain foods!
 
2013-05-01 01:50:50 AM
So I'm going to have to memorize a list of what they decide is "junk food" and what they decide is "whole food," Or risk getting to the checkout and getting HERP DERP REJECTED when I swipe my card, because I bought one too many "bad" food items? I already spend most of my food money on cheese, meat, grains, and vegetables, but maybe I have some money left over at the end of the month and I'm having people over and I want to go buy some chips and salsa? Do I also have to buy an eggplant or have the transaction fail?

This kind of micromanagement looks like nothing but a way to try and subvert benefits programs by burying them in red tape and overhead. That way they can be targeted as "waste" when the spending cuts come. Notice how the people supporting it are republicans?
 
2013-05-01 01:53:39 AM

Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass

Yeah, I have. Next question?


Ok I'll bite. It was one person who bought all those items at one time. It's still in my memory seeing the bill (yes it was in my view, it was a Food Lion on South Blvd., Charlotte, NC if you have to know) and it was $198. I do have a good memory , take it as you will. I'm a blue collar worker so my next question is-You haven't seen abuse of the system?
 
2013-05-01 01:54:55 AM

incrdbil: The same twits biatching about this would have applauded if a Democrat had sponsored it.

Its a good solid idea. No candy, no soda, no chips, no junk food on Food stamps. Don't like it..well, get a job and by your twinkies with cash, Fatty.


And if my uncle had wings, he could fly!
 
2013-05-01 01:56:44 AM

Moonlightfox: So I'm going to have to memorize a list of what they decide is "junk food" and what they decide is "whole food," Or risk getting to the checkout and getting HERP DERP REJECTED when I swipe my card, because I bought one too many "bad" food items?


The WIC program seems to work with really specific requirements.


I already spend most of my food money on cheese, meat, grains, and vegetables, but maybe I have some money left over at the end of the month and I'm having people over and I want to go buy some chips and salsa?

Then make a separate transaction for the chips and salsa and pay with your money. Ta-Da!
 
2013-05-01 02:01:29 AM

Godscrack: This doesn't make sense. Forcing the masses to eat right will only make them healthier. And smarter.

Republicans don't like thinking people. Who are they going to fill the jails with?


Heh. Except for the part where if they were healthy and smart they might get off government assistance.

Which is where the Democrats want to keep them.
 
2013-05-01 02:07:04 AM
Bathia_Mapes:

No idea if it was from this thread, but thanks.
 
2013-05-01 02:08:34 AM

Moonlightfox: So I'm going to have to memorize a list of what they decide is "junk food" and what they decide is "whole food," Or risk getting to the checkout and getting HERP DERP REJECTED when I swipe my card, because I bought one too many "bad" food items? I already spend most of my food money on cheese, meat, grains, and vegetables, but maybe I have some money left over at the end of the month and I'm having people over and I want to go buy some chips and salsa? Do I also have to buy an eggplant or have the transaction fail?

This kind of micromanagement looks like nothing but a way to try and subvert benefits programs by burying them in red tape and overhead. That way they can be targeted as "waste" when the spending cuts come. Notice how the people supporting it are republicans?


Well, the article points out that it's 2/3rds of your monthly food bill if you're on food stamps.  If you've already spent most of your food money on cheese, meat, grains and vegetables and have a little money left over, there is nothing wrong with you buying some candy.  It's like you either didn't read the article or read it and decided to make it more complex than it really is to be outraged.

And why is this a bad program?  Let's look at it this way: have those on food stamps eat healthier.  Most likely they are already on medicaid, so with a healthier diet there's less tax money going to health problems associated with bad diet, plus children who's parents are on food stamps will be fed healthier food, thus the government ends up spending less money on them as well.

The only reason why the Democrats really hate this is that it wasn't their idea.  Michelle Obama has come out vocally against childhood obesity and in favor of having healthier meals for children, this bill sponsored by a Republican follows Michelle Obama's wishes.  So the only reason why the Democrats are against it is pure partisanship.  If the Republicans would come out in favor of pro-gay marriage during the Bush presidency(either Bush), the Democrats would have found a reason to be against it.
 
2013-05-01 02:09:07 AM

Intoxoman: Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass

Yeah, I have. Next question?

Ok I'll bite. It was one person who bought all those items at one time. It's still in my memory seeing the bill (yes it was in my view, it was a Food Lion on South Blvd., Charlotte, NC if you have to know) and it was $198. I do have a good memory , take it as you will. I'm a blue collar worker so my next question is-You haven't seen abuse of the system?


Sure, I've seen some clever ways of getting the "most" out of the benefits offered, but I don't fault people for that, and it usually isn't sustainable anyway. (At some point, you've got to get around to stocking the basics, which the established program is quite good at, so the "splurge" was probably a one-off, maybe to celebrate something...*shrugs*...I just don't think that going on public assistance should require opening your private life up to such a level of scrutiny or control that society gets to dictate what is and isn't appropriate for you to buy on one random Tuesday afternoon. It degrades both parties involved...)

My family ran the food bank for a somewhat poor town in Northern Idaho for a number of years. We stocked all sorts of stuff, from junk food to fine foods. Prided ourselves on selection we provided. And we never questioned what people took home with them. It wasn't our business. Our job was to keep them fed. So, that's the perspective I come to this sort of stuff with...for whatever it's worth.
 
2013-05-01 02:10:10 AM
In other news. People like those atm cards ahem food stamps the government gives them...
 
2013-05-01 02:10:26 AM
I love the logic that says these people have NO TIME to waste going to the store more often...or NO TIME  to cook their children breakfast, make a sack lunch, or cook dinner.

I guess they are all too busy making partner putting in 80 weeks.
 
2013-05-01 02:18:41 AM
incrdbil: The WIC program seems to work with really specific requirements.

The wic requirements aren't different depending on what you're buying and wic-approved foods are clearly marked in stores. Currently the rules for food stamps ARE definitely too lax, but they're consistent. Either something is allowed or it is not and that's how it should stay. Ban soda and candy or don't. I'm also concerned it's going to be politicized and things like lean red meat and cheese will be put on the "junk food" list because there's a few too many vegetarians on the committee that ends up making the list.

Then make a separate transaction for the chips and salsa and pay with your money. Ta-Da!

Did you consider this statement before you posted it or are you really trying to be this condescending?
 
2013-05-01 02:20:26 AM
What the fark is this obsession with poor people wasting your tax money, when corporations swindle BILLIONS more tax dollars from us and nobody says boo?
 
2013-05-01 02:30:28 AM

Moonlightfox: I'm also concerned it's going to be politicized and things like lean red meat and cheese will be put on the "junk food" list because there's a few too many vegetarians on the committee that ends up making the list.


/not sure if serious
 
2013-05-01 02:31:35 AM
So let me get this straight..

(Many) people thought it was a great idea when Michelle Obama spearheaded schools to change their lunchrooms to only provide "healthy" food and get rid of all the soda/snack machines, basically forcing kids to eat this crap at school.. but a REPUBLICAN comes up with something that would encourage SNAP recipients to eat healthier, and all of a sudden it's a fracking horrible idea.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Michelle's response to this idea. Does she *gasp* agree with the Republican, or does she go full-on hypocrite?
 
2013-05-01 02:35:34 AM

Euk: I guess they assume that all poor people all have access to working kitchens, pots, pans, plates, working sinks and the various things someone living the life above the poverty level takes for granted. You know, if the poor have it so great, why would anyone ever work?

Maybe if they just pulled up on their bootstraps hard, they'd be able to cook without access to some or all of that stuff. Maybe improvise a nice cooking area using a broken shopping cart and some copies of phone book no one uses anymore.


Vegetablesand fruit can be eaten raw as can bread. They dont even need a knife.
 
2013-05-01 02:35:58 AM

Southern100: (Many) people thought it was a great idea when Michelle Obama spearheaded schools to change their lunchrooms to only provide "healthy" food and get rid of all the soda/snack machines, basically forcing kids to eat this crap at school..


Yes, promoting healthy diet and exercise is a terrible thing for young people.  We're Americans, Fat and Proud!

/no, I have no problem with the current proposal either.
 
2013-05-01 02:37:45 AM

Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass

Yeah, I have. Next question?

Ok I'll bite. It was one person who bought all those items at one time. It's still in my memory seeing the bill (yes it was in my view, it was a Food Lion on South Blvd., Charlotte, NC if you have to know) and it was $198. I do have a good memory , take it as you will. I'm a blue collar worker so my next question is-You haven't seen abuse of the system?

Sure, I've seen some clever ways of getting the "most" out of the benefits offered, but I don't fault people for that, and it usually isn't sustainable anyway. (At some point, you've got to get around to stocking the basics, which the established program is quite good at, so the "splurge" was probably a one-off, maybe to celebrate something...*shrugs*...I just don't think that going on public assistance should require opening your private life up to such a level of scrutiny or control that society gets to dictate what is and isn't appropriate for you to buy on one random Tuesday afternoon. It degrades both parties involved...)

My family ran the food bank for a somewhat poor town in Northern Idaho for a number of years. We stocked all sorts of stuff, from junk food to fine foods. Prided ourselves on selection we provided. And we never questioned what people took home with them. It wasn't our business. Our job was to keep them fed. So, that's the perspective I come to this sort of stuff with...for whatever it's worth.


Idaho explains a bit (no offense) though I live in Oregon now the abuses I saw were in NC. I'm sure your on the fighting for the needy mission, that's fine. I just don't get why you think it's ok to abuse the system. It's late, I'm off respond if you will nite
 
2013-05-01 02:38:37 AM
Well this thread has gone full derp. I'm out.

img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-05-01 02:52:21 AM

Intoxoman: Idaho explains a bit (no offense) though I live in Oregon now the abuses I saw were in NC. I'm sure your on the fighting for the needy mission, that's fine. I just don't get why you think it's ok to abuse the system. It's late, I'm off respond if you will nite


No offense taken...I'm now in the great state of Texas, and things are so much better here...wait, just threw up. Ok, threw up a little more. There's a bit of blood this time. And maybe corn. ...Ok, better now.

I don't think it's ok to abuse charity, whether private or public. I just also don't think it's ok to abuse people who take charity, by making them conform to your own tastes or fashions -- dietary or otherwise.

And the latter is the worse offense, since it turns charity into a stupid, resentful power-grab against people who aren't in a position to argue. You know...sort of the opposite of what charity is supposed to be.
 
2013-05-01 02:59:06 AM

KrispyKritter: if states want recipients to receive best value they should survey the family and have a package delivered to them weekly. bulk purchasing would = more value for the money. delivery would help those who can't easily get around. no stamps = junkies aren't selling them for change on the dollar.


was just getting ready to post something very similar. Pre- packaged, health, meals, delivered.
 
2013-05-01 03:04:28 AM

mr lawson: Pre- packaged, health, meals, delivered.


Quick, cheap, or good, pick two of the three.

/pre-packaged and "healthy" don't usually go together
 
2013-05-01 03:05:45 AM
I'm all for providing a fellow citizen of my country with a basic income they can live on in quiet dignity from cradle to grave regardless of their ability or willingness to work. And I'm perfectly happy for my tax dollars to be used for this purpose.

I'm against allowing those supporting themselves on public funding having the option or even the ability to procreate.

So instead of forcing the people who can't support themselves to buy vegetables or take drug tests or whatever, just require them to pick up their welfare check/free money at a government building after receiving a monthly shot of contraceptive. If that is too inconvenient allow them the option of direct deposit but only if they are willing to undergo surgical sterilization (of course provided for free along with all followup visits).

Conservatives hate this idea because it requires acknowledging poor people and slackers as our human brothers and sisters. Liberals hate this idea because it would prevent multi-generational government dependency which provides a significant percentage of their voter base.
 
2013-05-01 03:06:09 AM

Bathia_Mapes: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.

That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.


It's almost as if they don't actually care or think about people on assistance.
 
2013-05-01 03:11:51 AM

RembrandtQEinstein: I'm all for providing a fellow citizen of my country with a basic income they can live on in quiet dignity from cradle to grave regardless of their ability or willingness to work. And I'm perfectly happy for my tax dollars to be used for this purpose.

I'm against allowing those supporting themselves on public funding having the option or even the ability to procreate.

So instead of forcing the people who can't support themselves to buy vegetables or take drug tests or whatever, just require them to pick up their welfare check/free money at a government building after receiving a monthly shot of contraceptive. If that is too inconvenient allow them the option of direct deposit but only if they are willing to undergo surgical sterilization (of course provided for free along with all followup visits).

Conservatives hate this idea because it requires acknowledging poor people and slackers as our human brothers and sisters. Liberals hate this idea because it would prevent multi-generational government dependency which provides a significant percentage of their voter base.


And those who are literate in either history or biology hate this idea because you're a farking moron.

But, go on.
 
2013-05-01 03:24:12 AM

Peki: /pre-packaged and "healthy" don't usually go together


never said cheap :-)
 
2013-05-01 03:29:08 AM

mr lawson: Peki: /pre-packaged and "healthy" don't usually go together

never said cheap :-)


analogy.
 
2013-05-01 03:29:15 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

My only beef (Ha!) with your statement is the implicit costs of fresh stuff. Transportation (car, bus, walking, etc) is really limited for the poor at certain times. Storage is also a bit tougher since most people on assistance are families, and limited fridge space can mean less availability for storage, especially leftovers. And finally, time is an issue. If a parent comes home after a long and/or crappy shift, it IS easier to throw mac and cheese together than actually do the cooking for a more nutritious meal. Give the kid a PB&J sandwich + a pack of poptarts for lunch because it's fast and mornings can be a rush as it is.

Raising the minimum wage would help immensely.


Yes, let's just raise the minimum wage to $10,000 an hour. That way, we can all drive Ferraris and eat lobster and aragula. Your economic acumen is enthralling!
 
2013-05-01 03:33:49 AM
Conservatives think economic freedom is the ability to pick between 15 kinds of shampoo.

Liberals think economic freedom is the ability to buy the shampoo in the first place.
 
2013-05-01 03:36:04 AM

o5iiawah: I know exactly what a food desert is and I think the criteria for defining one is absurd - for reasons above.
I've also "been in those shoes"

If progressives are going to make the argument that supply is a function of demand, then they need to admit that food retailers in low income areas are simply providing what people are demanding.  I would argue that if every low income individual demanded quality food, fresh vegetables and healthy meat, stores would stock it and that sad, depressed looking shelf of overpriced bananas would now be a display bin full of bananas which turn over freshly and are cheaper because the store can buy in bulk.


The problem is that it becomes a whirlpool, just sucking down the general situation.  The people who have the least money are the cheapest shoppers, so they buy the loss leader deals that the supermarket runs to get shoppers who will buy high margin items as well.  The problem is that the loss leader just becomes a loss, and it's frequently the processed food variety, because for $0.99 you can get a can of chili or a frozen pizza that seems like a meal.

So, at least in the situations I'm most familiar with, the grocer who is already facing the squeeze of having low profit margins to start with, can't afford to stay open.  In turn, the residents of that neighborhood suddenly lose what's available to them without having created demand for quality low cost produce.

I had a disabled neighbor, a Navy veteran from the 1960's, who lived on about $800/mo plus his approximately $100 in Oregon Trail benefits who justified eating about 20 $1 pizzas a month just to be sure he didn't run out of benefits before the month ended.  He know how to cook, but because he couldn't drive he hoarded his benefits because he was worried one of us couldn't drive him and would stock up on cheap pizza so he could afford eggs, bread, and butter if he had to buy them at the local minimarts that charge $4.99 for a dozen eggs or $2.99 for a loaf of white bread.

The nearest grocery store was great, but it was an all organic/natural coop and pretty damn expensive.  The nearest supermarket was about 1.25 miles, and that's actually a fairly long distance for a disabled 70-something year old who doesn't have a car.
 
2013-05-01 03:43:44 AM
Liberals think the government should buy their shampoo, and cell phones, and food, and cars, and hookers and blow.
 
2013-05-01 03:47:35 AM

Friction8r: Liberals think the government should buy their shampoo, and cell phones, and food, and cars, and hookers and blow.


Like Conservatives don't? They just call it corporate sponsorship.
 
2013-05-01 04:00:55 AM

Bumblefark: And those who are literate in either history or biology hate this idea because you're a farking moron.

But, go on.


I'm sure your rapier wit is feared in debating societies all throughout the land.
 
2013-05-01 04:05:42 AM
Up next:  GMO-only fruits and vegetables to pocket the gene patenters.
 
2013-05-01 04:33:24 AM

davidphogan: So two trips to the store per week, just in bus fares, can end up being $40 per month.


Yes, because people with cars don't spend money on transportation?

I don't have a car, but I'm not going to start complaining that people have to pay for stuff.

Hell, if the place you live sucks so much, why not move?

Some people fail at life and they do so deservedly. (Peki sounds like one...)
 
2013-05-01 04:54:14 AM

doglover: Find a way to make money.


He says to the children, whom are required to attend school and forbidden from working, driving, and voting.
 
2013-05-01 04:59:43 AM

redslippers: There is a direct correlation between what a person eats and their health


If this is an important public health issue, we should apply these rules to the public at large, not just to people who happen to be on a food assistance program.
 
2013-05-01 05:10:28 AM

penthesilea: Fresh foods are great, but don't keep well for very long.

Fresh foods also mean going to the grocery store more often.  Which means more time wasted and spending more money on gas or public transportation.  They hardly get anything to put towards food as it is and the politicians are trying to make it even more difficult to survive.

If the politicians really want to make fresh foods a big part of the plan then they need to give a lot more money.  They should triple it.
They never will, but they should.


Live off the giver teat, deal with the govt demands.
 
2013-05-01 05:19:09 AM

Friction8r: Liberals think the government should buy their shampoo, and cell phones, and food, and cars, and hookers and blow.


Says the guys that lives in a state that get more from the federal govt than it gives in taxes.

You're welcome for that knowledge...from a guy that lives in a state that gives more than it gets in federal taxes...California.
 
2013-05-01 05:31:01 AM

cmb53208: Nutritious food has to be made accessible before you mandate its purchase.


And how do you propose to do that?
 
2013-05-01 05:41:15 AM

redslippers: I can get behind this type of regulation. SNAP already disallows purchase of ready to eat prepared foods (like deli sandwiches) and alcoholic beverages. I see no reason that ready to eat can't be expanded to include things like chips, cookies, boxed meal kits and frozen dinners.

There is a direct correlation between what a person eats and their health, and if they qualify for SNAP, it is highly likely they are also on medicaid or the kids are on CHIP. Regulations like this can actually save billions long term.

And I live in a very rural area. I am over an hour drive from the nearest large grocery store with a decent selection. And I am definitely in a produce desert. All I have to choose from locally is generally apples, celery, carrots, onions, iceberg lettuce, bananas, and either strawberries or blueberries. The prices on everything in the tiny local store average 60% higher than the store that is an hour away.

Solution? I can't drive an hour one way all the time, due to time constraints (not to mention how wasteful financially that would be). So I go once a month. I plan my menu out for the entire month before my trip. I purchase a mix of fresh and frozen produce. The fragile stuff gets eaten first, the hardier veggies and fruits with longer shelf life get eaten in week two (and some, like carrots and potatoes, well into week three), and the last week or so of the month I utilize the frozen stuff. I don't purchase many convenience foods, because when I do, my kids eat constantly, are sick all the time, and my grocery bill for a family of seven on mostly whole foods is around $750 per month. If I buy the common convenience foods, like frozen entrees and chips (which I've had to do in the past, most recently when we were moving and my kitchen was still mostly packed) it jumps to around $1100 per month. That is a vast difference. When I say I buy mostly whole foods, I do buy things like healthy cereals, pasta, and ketchup (seriously, who makes their own ketchup?) ...


Write a booklet and license it to the government.  Seriously, my hat's off to you!
 
2013-05-01 05:46:23 AM

lolpix: take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income

How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.


Yeah, see, you're reporting it.  Common mistake for rookies  :)

/SE employment tax SUCKS
 
2013-05-01 05:46:51 AM
Produce deserts, stores full of tempting junk food, no stores where the food stamps are....

Open government-run stores where the food stamp users are, and accept only food stamps.  Stock stores with whatever food stamp users are supposed to eat.

Call it SNAPs Club.  Members only.
 
2013-05-01 06:04:24 AM
Amazing how many people in here want the government to tell them what they can and can't eat.
 
2013-05-01 06:24:44 AM

The Southern Dandy: Friction8r: Liberals think the government should buy their shampoo, and cell phones, and food, and cars, and hookers and blow.

Says the guys that lives in a state that get more from the federal govt than it gives in taxes.

You're welcome for that knowledge...from a guy that lives in a state that gives more than it gets in federal taxes...California.


Sorry, that's no longer true. People REALLY need to stop referring to that 2005 study, as it is SO out of date.

California currently receives $1.09 for every $1.00.

in 2009, Barbara Boxer HERSELF calculated that California received $1.45 for every $1.00 sent to the Federal Government.

Just FWIW, California is now (and has been for a few years), a "taker" state.
 
2013-05-01 06:40:48 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Amazing how many people in here want the government to tell them what they can and can't eat.


only if I am paying for it. Otherwise eat what you want.
 
2013-05-01 06:51:05 AM

take_flight: I know two people who get SNAP, one works full time and has 5 kids living at home, they get around $300/month and spend it mostly on meat, bread, and milk.

The other doesn't work and hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income, they get around $600/month with 3 kids living at home, and spend it mostly on spaghetti o's and boxed macaroni and cheese for the kids. They eat out almost every day on bf-now-recently-husband's hidden income. (They also own 3 cars...2 of which are newer than mine, and one with a $400/month car payment, which is affordable for them because they live in section 8 housing and only pay $180.month for their 3 bedroom townhouse).

The latter is one reason why people create bills like this.


Or, you know, you could take the resoncible action of turning them in, instead of hoping for the legislative thugs to pass more fark-the-poor laws...
 
2013-05-01 06:52:04 AM
In theory, it is a great idea. Unfortunately it will be expensive and a mess to implement it as written. They should just move certain categories of food off the eligible list: snack foods, soda, and candy would be a great start.
 
2013-05-01 07:09:34 AM
Since this will increase the demand for fruits and vegetables, the price will rise for normal hardworking citizens. Thanks a lot Obama!
 
2013-05-01 07:16:24 AM

LessO2: factoryconnection: The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.

The Government likely does that already.   Silly Farker, Capitalism will ALWAYS trump health or safety.

If you want to get bootstrappy, strip the folks like Kraft, Pepsico, Nestle and Tyson of their tax subsidies.  Do they get subsidies?, hell if I know, but they're big enough to have buddies on Capitol Hill, so it's very likely they do.

Make the price of a two-liter bottle of soda five bucks, the "Family Size" bag of Doritos 10 bucks, see how fast those will stay on the shelves longer.


How is arbitrarily raising the prices on those products considered "bootstrappy?"
 
2013-05-01 07:19:28 AM

doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins vitamin injections with rusty, meth infested needles. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.


FTFY. They're poor, so they're used to it.
 
2013-05-01 07:26:12 AM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: /This will create lawsuits under the 5th Amendment


?
 
2013-05-01 07:27:15 AM
Too expensive?  I did three 30 day juice fasts last year.

I consumed nothing but plant matter.

$7.50 per day.
 
2013-05-01 07:32:26 AM

poison_amy: I'm with the "fruit and veg isn't that expensive" group. Bananas have to be the biggest nutrition bargain you can buy. Apples are super cheap. Sure, fancy honeycrisps are $4 a pound, but you can get yummy Braeburns for under a dollar a pound. Potatoes and carrots are pennies a pound. Also, in SD you can spend snap money on food--bearing seeds and plants. Anyone can grow tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers. You can even grow them in containers.

But people don't want to buy ingredients and cook. Because laziness.


I honestly think it's because more and more people don't know how to prepare anything in the kitchen.
I'm guessing the average person hasn't a clue when it comes to "how do I use this Kale that's on sale".
 
2013-05-01 07:35:57 AM

Molavian: Spanky_McFarksalot: people  say that like they personally get a bill each month.

IF, you pay taxes and don't any kind of refund (assuming you don't take any of the credits offered and actually get back MORE in federal taxes than you pay in) you portion of the bill is like what? a few dollars  a month?

I was going to joke around a bit, but you do realize that a lot of people actually have to pay taxes, right?


Yes, a lot of people, somewhere on the order of 100%, pay taxes.
 
2013-05-01 07:37:18 AM

skullkrusher: Protricity: I didn't read the part about the new law their gonna pass to prevent merchants from doubling the price on any such produce when this goes into effect.

I mean, they are going to do that right?

they're gonna double the price of produce to take advantage of this increase in the proportion of 15% of  the population's food money that must be spent on produce? Dubious.


I am glad I'm not the only one who noticed. You did better than I though, I put them on ignore with the comment that they're likely retarded.
 
2013-05-01 07:39:36 AM

LarryDan43: Since this will increase the demand for fruits and vegetables, the price will rise for normal hardworking citizens. Thanks a lot Obama!


No..  because the demand for fruits and veg goes up, the farms that grow nothing but corn will have to start growing real food en mass, and then the prices will drop because real food will no longer be so rare.
Thank a lot Obama!
 
2013-05-01 07:42:52 AM

Moonlightfox: So I'm going to have to memorize a list of what they decide is "junk food" and what they decide is "whole food," Or risk getting to the checkout and getting HERP DERP REJECTED when I swipe my card, because I bought one too many "bad" food items? I already spend most of my food money on cheese, meat, grains, and vegetables, but maybe I have some money left over at the end of the month and I'm having people over and I want to go buy some chips and salsa? Do I also have to buy an eggplant or have the transaction fail?

This kind of micromanagement looks like nothing but a way to try and subvert benefits programs by burying them in red tape and overhead. That way they can be targeted as "waste" when the spending cuts come. Notice how the people supporting it are republicans?


Buy the ingredients to make your own chips and salsa.  Then you have a healthy meal.  :)
 
2013-05-01 07:46:07 AM

santadog: LarryDan43: Since this will increase the demand for fruits and vegetables, the price will rise for normal hardworking citizens. Thanks a lot Obama!

No..  because the demand for fruits and veg goes up, the farms that grow nothing but corn will have to start growing real food en mass, and then the prices will drop because real food will no longer be so rare.
Thank a lot Obama!


The odd thing is, basically none of our food subsidies go to fresh fruits and veggies. Corn (mostly not eaten as a vegetable), wheat, milk? Yep. Spinach, apples, peas? Nope.
 
2013-05-01 07:48:28 AM
I'd force them to buy condoms and get snipped so no more mouths to feed.
 
2013-05-01 07:51:23 AM
 His proposal set for a Tuesday vote would require people on state nutrition assistance program to buy less soda, chips and candy bars


Why are they buying *any* soda, chips and candy bars with taxpayer money? I get people need help. I have no issue with that. But why do I need to subsidize your snacking habits? If you want to feed your kids, fine. If you want a Snickers, pay for that your Goddamn self. I want to scream every time I see someone using their EBT card to buy bags of Hostess choco donuts, frozen pizzas, 'fruit' pies, RC cola, 20 boxes of pizza rolls and Doritos. Buy some real damn food. Too lazy to prepare food? At least get some hamburger helper or something.

CSB:
Got stuck behind some attractive and succesful people who had used EBT to buy a bunch of junk food, and were using WIC to actualy get some healthy stuff. The lady got a two pound bag of grapes, but WIC was only going to pay for 1 pound. The lady says "Why you be charging me for dem grapes?" The cashier explains that they are sold by the pound and not the bag, and that she'd have to pay 2 bucks (for the extra pound) if she wanted them. Lady says "I ain't paying no 2 dollars for no grapes. Put dem back" The really egregious part was that the two women had brand new Nikes, gold chains, Offical NBA hats with the tags and gold stickers still on them (so everyone knows how much they paid) and both were rocking new model Samsung smartphones.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I think if you can afford to put rims on your car, gold caps on your teeth and buy better clothes, jewelry, and phones than me, maybe....just maybe...you shouldn't be on public assistance.
 
2013-05-01 07:55:55 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Amazing how many people in here want the government to tell them what they can and can't eat.



People like you speak of a responsibility and an obligation we all have to take care of one another.  If I ended up on food stamps or public assistance, I would feel that the least I can do is choose foods that are inexpensive yet healthy and will keep me off my the public health system as well.  Unfortunately you cant always count on people to make the right decisions and when society bears the responsibility that the individual refuses to assume, then it places rules on benefits.

Dont like being told what to eat or where to shop?  make enough to support your 5 kids.

Again, when you demand society subsidize your life you cant then be surprised when society sets the terms.
 
2013-05-01 07:57:40 AM

KarmicDisaster: Since Republicans are doing this, there is probably some reason. This won't save taxpayers a dime, since people will still get the same amount of aid but will just spend it on other stuff, so cost savings is not the reason. I think that the real reason is the Republican desire to "punish" people that they don't like, just like their parents punished them. In this case, by making it harder for stores to comply with the program they will  force a lot of them to drop out of the program. That will make it harder and more time consuming for  the poor to travel to stores to buy things to eat, which is considered good in the Republican mindset since as they "know" the poor are all Blacks or Liberals that have been on welfare for their whole lives and need be punished and encouraged to move away. Did you know that Wisconsin imprisons more Blacks (by their proportion in the population) than any other state? That's the reason they are doing this.


Potentially vast savings in healthcare pretty much negates your argument. At the very least it means you can safely be ignored as one who won't contribute anything of value to the conversation.
 
2013-05-01 07:58:17 AM

doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food.


Are other countries not people?
 
2013-05-01 08:08:02 AM
I know a woman who's on social security disability and has been getting foodstamps/SNAP for over 20 years.  She literally weighs 300+ pounds and says the government is to blame for her obesity because she can't afford to buy healthy foods.  However, she literally eats a gallon of ice cream and a bottle of chocolate syrup daily for the first two weeks of the month (until she runs out of money on her SNAP card). She buys 2-serving size portions of kung-pao chicken for $8, and she and her son go through three of those a day. She can't afford to buy milk and cereal for her kid though, and fruits and vegetables are way too expensive, not to mention too much work. For the last half of the month, they live on ramen noodles and hand-outs from the food bank. I tried showing her how to make kung-pao chicken at home but she says that it's way too time-consuming. I think for people like her, who refuse to take responsibility for their diet and subsequent health problems, this may be the only solution.
 
2013-05-01 08:36:06 AM
I'm OK with this. My wife suggested this years ago. She also recommended a manditory 4-6 hour course in nutrition and basic food prep for anyone applying for food assistance programs.

/we are libby, lib, libs
 
2013-05-01 08:37:33 AM

PsiChick: Up until you're getting sick from the estrogen they pump the cows with to keep them pregnant, sure. I'm not supposed to eat that shiat anymore, or bread, because both are actually making me fat as fark. And that's whole-wheat bread and low-fat milk. Not even some kind of super-sugar milk concoction and white bread.


Um.  No.

I don't think you know how milking cows works.

Milking cows are bred intentionally to get them pregnant, both to increase the milking herd and to give milking cows periodic breaks from being milked.  A cow will continue to lactate almost indefinitely if milked regularly.  Most smaller farms, as are common in New England where I worked, segregate the pregnant cows as they go "dry" a few weeks before they're due.  Some will milk right up until they stop lactating which is when the estrogen levels naturally produced by the cow in the milk are highest.  Where I worked we stopped milking a pregnant cow about six months into the gestation period, so they'd spend about two to three months in the dry cow pen, which we believed was better for the health of the cow but also incidentally kept hormone levels in the milk we produced lower.  To the best of my knowledge, even the big operations that milk a pregnant cow until it goes dry don't purposely "pump" estrogen into cows.  And even if they did I don't know how that would keep them pregnant...

/TMYK
 
2013-05-01 09:23:56 AM
You want people to eat healthier? Stop subsidizing corn and start subsidizing vegetable crops instead.

/Only vaguely relevant
 
2013-05-01 10:04:37 AM

tripleseven: IronOcelot: basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.
Holy crap! Yes it was.

Yeah, except it came in a 5lb block, unsliced.  So, you either had to grate it, or take your chances slicing it with a knife.  Slicing it tended to create slices that were wedge shaped.  Started off thin, but lost it in the middle, and it got thicker as you reached the bottom.  My solution was to get two wedge shaped pieces, and lay them on each other, thin end to thick end, to make one, large slab for grilling.

it actually was decent American cheese.


Oh yeah.  5 lb blocks of Govt. cheese.  Mmmmmmm....

/and I'm serious, loved the stuff too
 
2013-05-01 10:26:58 AM
Wisconsin to force food stamps recipients to spend money on fruits and vegetables

This is what happens when you keep electing the "party of small government".
 
Bf+
2013-05-01 10:34:34 AM
Well, thank god the state republicans are spending tons of money on important things like punishing those nasty poors, rather than worrying about, oh, I dunno... farking job creation!
 
2013-05-01 10:43:26 AM
I get most of my fruits and veggies at the 99 cent only store.  Really.  But then again, I live in an agricultural area, so they are plentiful.  I get pints of strawberries, grape tomatoes and bags of pre-cut lettuce for 99 cents.   That store rocks!
 
2013-05-01 10:46:31 AM

Bf+: Well, thank god the state republicans are spending tons of money on important things like punishing those nasty poors, rather than worrying about, oh, I dunno... farking job creation!


spending money to create jobs....stop me if this has failed before.
 
2013-05-01 10:52:27 AM

doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.


Does anyone else here remember commodities? I'm talking about the government program, not the term in general. Maybe I'm the only one who grew up poor, but I can remember my mom going to the courthouse once a month and getting a ration of things like cheese, peanut butter, butter, powdered milk, etc. I know that the program still exists to some extent, but you don't hear much about it anymore.

The reason I bring it up is because of a program I heard about a few years ago. My former MIL went in and signed up for commodities. She lives in a region that is near an Indian reservation (extremely high poverty). The way the program worked there was that they had one big "store" that was all commodities. Now I never saw the place and I'm going on memory and what she told me, so I may not have all of the details completely correct. In any case, she said that you go in, and depending on your "level" (income, number of dependents, etc.), you were allowed so many "units" of food from each part of the store. One section might have been vegetables, one dairy, one grains, etc. Some of it was fresh, some frozen, some canned, some dried. The thing about it was that there was no "junk" food. I won't claim that it was all health food. She brought us some canned products that were probably high in sodium, but it was all actual food. There was no Coke, Snickers or Doritos in the store. There was no budgeting, no trying to figure out the best way to get reasonably healthy food for the least amount of money. It was just straight up "you get 10 units of vegetables, 10 units of grains, 5 dairy, etc.". Everything was packaged in a way to be a single unit, roughly equivalent to every other product in that section. I remember she brought me a "soup mix" that was a bag of tubers - turnips, potatoes, carrots and onions. It made a pretty good vegetable beef soup.

If we are going to feed people, then let's feed people. Don't hand a wad of money to people who probably have no idea how to spend it wisely and then turn them loose in a supermarket full of shiny, processed crap and expect them to make good decisions. Just straight up give them food. I think it would also cut down on trading their food stamps for cash. It will still happen, they can always resell the food at a discount price, but it's a lot harder than handing someone a card and getting cash in return.

Of course, this won't work everywhere. There has to be a certain demand level to make this sort of project economically feasible. I think that it would work great in high poverty areas, however. Hell, you could run free shuttles to the place on a regular schedule to help ensure that they can get there on a regular basis. Yes, it limits their choices. Tough shiat. You can't go to a soup kitchen and demand a steak supper. If I'm buying your groceries, you can live with some restrictions. If you want a bag of chips and a candy bar, buy it on your own dime.
 
2013-05-01 10:59:27 AM

Bathia_Mapes: factoryconnection: Bathia_Mapes: That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.

Beans and rice are whole foods, as are frozen and canned veggies, and all are far better than the heavily-processed junk food that they're targeting.

Food stamps (TANF, SNAP) are meant to SUPPLEMENT the food budget for families.  The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.  Yeah, veggies are more expensive than nutrient-bereft corn chips, but they also don't lead to a poor populace that is both obese and malnourished.  White rice isn't that good for you, but at least it doesn't come with a litany of 25-cent-word processing ingredients.

Yes, SNAP is meant to supplement a family's food budget, but in reality it's often the only source a family has to buy food. It's not uncommon for the work income of a family to go towards rent, transportation to & from work, necessary clothing, etc., with nothing left to purchase food.

BTW-TANF is cash benefits and not everyone on SNAP gets TANF.


Yeah Tyrone's Air Jordans are a necessity
 
Bf+
2013-05-01 11:06:40 AM

o5iiawah: Bf+: Well, thank god the state republicans are spending tons of money on important things like punishing those nasty poors, rather than worrying about, oh, I dunno... farking job creation!

spending money to create jobs....stop me if this has failed before.



I didn't say spend money to create jobs.
 
2013-05-01 11:11:05 AM
I'm sort of puzzled by the argument that eating decent food is expensive. It might be a better deal to buy some things frozen instead of fresh, sure, especially if you consume them slowly enough that they'll otherwise go bad, but those should really be included in any restriction to 'whole' or healthier foods. What, exactly, are people doing that processed food is all they can afford?

I've always gotten the impression that they're more expensive and are marked up due to the convenience. A $5.99 box of microwaveable whatever with eight times the sodium of making it yourself with $3 of ingredients and 20 minutes at the stove. Granted, maybe if you're relying on generic cheetos or something, you'll be able to find filling empty calories for cheap, but in terms of things are recognizable as food meant for human consumption? I'm not saying it's not possible for this to be true, but it sounds like a bullshiat excuse for eating garbage because you don't want to or don't know how to cook.

/ Not a comment on whether or not food stamps are sufficient, just a comment on what you're getting for the money you do get.
 
2013-05-01 11:23:39 AM
proteus_b: 
Some people fail at life and they do so deservedly. (Peki sounds like one...)


Since you're missing some of the story, let me fill you in on what I've deserved since I graduated college:

I deserved to lose a job in '06 after I was robbed at gunpoint by coworkers and the store closed following a double homicide a month afterwards.
I deserved to lose a job in '08 after finding pictures on my then-husband's computer that would make Chris Hansen blush (so I left, and since my only family was in California, that's where I went, three days before the biggest drop in the stock market since the Great Depression; I've always had impeccable timing.)
I deserved to blow out my knee in '10, causing me to lose another job, as I was out on medical for 2+ months, longer than I was supposed to, because a month after I blew out the knee, I was in a car accident (passenger) that shattered my cast in three places, making the previously somewhat torn MCL almost completely torn.
I deserved to be kicked out by previously mentioned family because my stepfather decided that putting 3 scoops to make coffee instead of 2 was disrespectful and offensive (yes, there's more, that was just the flashpoint).
I deserve to not be able to cook my own food because I want to eat what *I* think is healthy instead of what my MIL thinks is healthy.
I deserved to lose a job in '12 because I have PTSD (see the above, and that's just since college, there's more trauma before that) and two sleep disorders.
I deserve to have difficulties in finding a job because I have psoriasis that's visible on my entire forehead and down my cheeks--as for treatment, I really don't think I should have to actively jeopardize my health by taking immuno-suppressants; other meds are either too expensive (Dovonex) or ineffective (UV treatments).

When you can tell me what god I pissed off before I was born to get all this, then I'll agree I deserve it.
 
2013-05-01 11:44:33 AM
Funny I should see this today since last night I was in line behind a woman whose items for purchase were four candy bars, 3 boxes of pastries and 2 two liters of coke. She was speaking on an I-phone 5 the whole time during her check out with gold rings on each of her fingers along with three long gold earrings in each ear and maybe four or five gold necklaces and a large gold bracelet on her left arm. She made her payment for the items with an EBT card (food stamps) and slowly walked out of the store. My check out was quick since I only had two items so I was able to reach the parking lot and see her loading her items from the cart into a band new 2013 Land Rover. She then got into the Land Rover and drove off leaving the cart in the parking lot right behind the car parked next to her after it collided with the car when she let it go and right on the other side of her was the cart return rack.

I look forward to the day when liberals wake the Hades up and realize these programs are a waste of money and resources.
 
2013-05-01 11:47:44 AM

Peki: Bumblefark: eggrolls: Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.

*Always* hilarious when the capitalist revenge fantasy goes far enough around the bend that it becomes more or less indistinguishable from the practice of communism.

3 right turns = a left. :)


The *really* funny part is, I am a screaming pinko-liberal type. Mostly.
 
2013-05-01 12:01:17 PM

doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.



^^^^^^ SERIOUSLY ALL OF THIS ^^^^^^
 
2013-05-01 12:03:31 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Bathia_Mapes: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.

That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.

carrots are cheap as shiat.  onions are sometimes.  Not all fruits and veggies are expensive.



Yeah but none of that shiat tastes like a Big Mac... and unaware people love the taste of cheap "food" over the real thing.

/I ain't lovin' it
 
2013-05-01 12:39:16 PM
Forcing people to eat real food? Those bastards.
 
2013-05-01 12:39:23 PM

inglixthemad: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.

No shiat. Fresh fruit is expensive, especially this time of year. Heck, raspberries were $4 a pint last Saturday if I remember properly.


A: The people who wrote the law are from California.
2:  Frozen fruit/veg is the same as fresh.
 
2013-05-01 12:43:55 PM

Mock26: take_flight: I know two people who get SNAP, one works full time and has 5 kids living at home, they get around $300/month and spend it mostly on meat, bread, and milk.

The other doesn't work and hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income, they get around $600/month with 3 kids living at home, and spend it mostly on spaghetti o's and boxed macaroni and cheese for the kids. They eat out almost every day on bf-now-recently-husband's hidden income. (They also own 3 cars...2 of which are newer than mine, and one with a $400/month car payment, which is affordable for them because they live in section 8 housing and only pay $180.month for their 3 bedroom townhouse).

The latter is one reason why people create bills like this.

Turn them in.


To the people who make their living doling out Section 8 and SNAP. Then wait.
 
2013-05-01 12:49:09 PM

Bumblefark: Yeah, because politicizing public assistance down to the level of a person's diet isn't at all petty or spiteful, and is sure to make for some sound policy...


Stop taking our money, then. It's nobody's business what you eat when you pay for it by yourself.
 
2013-05-01 12:58:21 PM

Popular Opinion: we probably ate out less than 3 times a year. bob's big boy on somebody's birthday....


I don't recall ever going out to eat in any restaurant for any reason. If Pappy had a couple extra bucks, maybe once a year I was sent on a walk (didn't have a bicycle) to White Castle to buy a bunch of burgers at 5 cents a piece.
 
2013-05-01 12:58:32 PM

Mose: PsiChick: Up until you're getting sick from the estrogen they pump the cows with to keep them pregnant, sure. I'm not supposed to eat that shiat anymore, or bread, because both are actually making me fat as fark. And that's whole-wheat bread and low-fat milk. Not even some kind of super-sugar milk concoction and white bread.

Um.  No.

I don't think you know how milking cows works.

Milking cows are bred intentionally to get them pregnant, both to increase the milking herd and to give milking cows periodic breaks from being milked.  A cow will continue to lactate almost indefinitely if milked regularly.  Most smaller farms, as are common in New England where I worked, segregate the pregnant cows as they go "dry" a few weeks before they're due.  Some will milk right up until they stop lactating which is when the estrogen levels naturally produced by the cow in the milk are highest.  Where I worked we stopped milking a pregnant cow about six months into the gestation period, so they'd spend about two to three months in the dry cow pen, which we believed was better for the health of the cow but also incidentally kept hormone levels in the milk we produced lower.  To the best of my knowledge, even the big operations that milk a pregnant cow until it goes dry don't purposely "pump" estrogen into cows.  And even if they did I don't know how that would keep them pregnant...

/TMYK


Yeah, Harvard still linked the estrogen to cancer.

/You're probably right about where it comes from, but it's still unhealthy.
 
2013-05-01 01:28:25 PM

Peki: When you can tell me what god I pissed off before I was born to get all this, then I'll agree I deserve it.


The god of foolish interpersonal associations.

Start forming relationships with people who aren't horrible and watch your life improve!
 
2013-05-01 02:12:52 PM

Two16: doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.


^^^^^^ SERIOUSLY ALL OF THIS ^^^^^^


"Just feeding people" doesn't address their problems.  It merely keeps the alive enough to continue to make bad decisions, have children they cant afford and live an unsustainable life.

We're starting to realize this with Africa and more and more are realizing it with Haiti.  more often than not, food simply enabled poor people to make more poor people if the grain wasn't first stolen by gangs and sold for AKs
 
2013-05-01 02:16:28 PM

Krumet: You take Caesar's coin, you play by Caesar's rules.


Took 15 posts, then I stopped reading. You want extra money? Here's what you can do with it. +1

/I love the hate on "food stamps"... I have a friend on food stamps, she gets a credit card with a limit. Nothing looks out of place when she shops.
 
2013-05-01 02:19:30 PM
On another note. If someone saw a food stamp atm card, managed to find out the pin, then pickpocketed it. Would they be forced to use the cash they get out of a machine on vegetables

Yes, I know. some people have the actual stamps.  But most are very agreeable about taking the card instead.
 
2013-05-01 02:38:51 PM

lolpix: 1) How to vendors implement this, and 2) as a person who eats mostly fresh whole foods, calorie for calorie, they tend to cost two or three times more than prefabricated meals.


I bought a 10 lb. bag of potatoes lask week for $3. Tomatoes are often $2/lb (or less for Roma). Carrots $1/lb. lettuce (varries but iceberg is around $1.29 a head). Broccoli $1.50/lb. etc. etc.

A bag of flamin' hot cheetos costs $3 for around 10 oz. A 10 - 12 oz. frozen dinner costs between $1.50 and $2.50...  not exactly seeing quantity or quality from pre-fab meals and chips/pop.
 
2013-05-01 02:40:37 PM

o5iiawah: Two16: doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.


^^^^^^ SERIOUSLY ALL OF THIS ^^^^^^

"Just feeding people" doesn't address their problems.  It merely keeps the alive enough to continue to make bad decisions, have children they cant afford and live an unsustainable life.

We're starting to realize this with Africa and more and more are realizing it with Haiti.  more often than not, food simply enabled poor people to make more poor people if the grain wasn't first stolen by gangs and sold for AKs



I agree with you.  However, on the list of short term fixes while we, as a culture/species, try to gin up a proper solution it's not a bad idea.
 
2013-05-01 02:57:27 PM
The lobbyists for the soft drink and twinkie companies must be asleep.
 
2013-05-01 03:05:04 PM

cwolf20: Yes, I know. some people have the actual stamps.  But most are very agreeable about taking the card instead.


No, actually they don't.  The actual physical, printed "food stamps" (that looked like currency) were all retired in 2004 in favor of the debit card system.   All of the ones out there from the old program have no value.   They have to be "agreeable" about taking the card, it's the only option from the "take" menu and the only other option is "leave it."
 
2013-05-01 03:15:56 PM

mr lawson: Keizer_Ghidorah: Amazing how many people in here want the government to tell them what they can and can't eat.

only if I am paying for it. Otherwise eat what you want.


So you'd rather they spend $5.00 on oranges instead of .89 cents a Mac-n-Cheese box?
 
2013-05-01 03:21:20 PM

Profedius: Funny I should see this today since last night I was in line behind a woman whose items for purchase were four candy bars, 3 boxes of pastries and 2 two liters of coke. She was speaking on an I-phone 5 the whole time during her check out with gold rings on each of her fingers along with three long gold earrings in each ear and maybe four or five gold necklaces and a large gold bracelet on her left arm. She made her payment for the items with an EBT card (food stamps) and slowly walked out of the store. My check out was quick since I only had two items so I was able to reach the parking lot and see her loading her items from the cart into a band new 2013 Land Rover. She then got into the Land Rover and drove off leaving the cart in the parking lot right behind the car parked next to her after it collided with the car when she let it go and right on the other side of her was the cart return rack.

I look forward to the day when liberals wake the Hades up and realize these programs are a waste of money and resources.


It's funny how personal anecdotes make people think everyone or everything is exactly like something they've experienced once or twice and demand the punishment or destruction of everyone or everything that might be slightly similar to their anecdote.
 
2013-05-01 03:24:29 PM

o5iiawah: Two16: doglover: Can't we just farkin' feed people?

We send billions in rice and grain to other countries. Let's just give people some farkin' food. Stop paying farm subsidies for fallow fields and ask them to kick out a few billion bushels of bush beans and such. Every poor family gets X beans and rice per week and some flinstones chewable vitamins. Don't like it? Find a way to make money.


^^^^^^ SERIOUSLY ALL OF THIS ^^^^^^

"Just feeding people" doesn't address their problems.  It merely keeps the alive enough to continue to make bad decisions, have children they cant afford and live an unsustainable life.

We're starting to realize this with Africa and more and more are realizing it with Haiti.  more often than not, food simply enabled poor people to make more poor people if the grain wasn't first stolen by gangs and sold for AKs


Because America is exactly like Africa and Haiti, just swarming with civil war-fighting armies, massive gangs, poachers, and evil dictatorships.
 
2013-05-01 03:27:23 PM

lawboy87: cwolf20: Yes, I know. some people have the actual stamps.  But most are very agreeable about taking the card instead.

No, actually they don't.  The actual physical, printed "food stamps" (that looked like currency) were all retired in 2004 in favor of the debit card system.   All of the ones out there from the old program have no value.   They have to be "agreeable" about taking the card, it's the only option from the "take" menu and the only other option is "leave it."


Shows how much more I know since the last time I ran one through in a grocery store I was a cashier at in 90s.
 
2013-05-01 05:51:29 PM
p6.storage.canalblog.com
 
2013-05-01 05:57:49 PM

cwolf20: On another note. If someone saw a food stamp atm card, managed to find out the pin, then pickpocketed it. Would they be forced to use the cash they get out of a machine on vegetables

Yes, I know. some people have the actual stamps.  But most are very agreeable about taking the card instead.


If the EBT card has only SNAP (food stamps) benefits on it, it cannot be used at an ATM. Only an EBT card with both TANF (cash) & SNAP benefits on it can be used at an ATM and the cash would be taken from the TANF benefits only.
 
2013-05-01 08:35:21 PM
Healthcare. Food. Insurance. Gee, the government can pretty much force you to buy anything these days.
 
2013-05-01 09:42:26 PM
i can provide a square meal for about $2.

lasagna
green salad (italian dressing)
garlic bread
lemonade or iced tea
oatmeal cookies or a cupcake

I do this for ~200 people several times a month at outreach centers
I buy the groceries retail (the cookies are already made), and don't get any special discounts.
 
2013-05-01 10:54:47 PM

cwolf20: lawboy87: cwolf20: Yes, I know. some people have the actual stamps.  But most are very agreeable about taking the card instead.

No, actually they don't.  The actual physical, printed "food stamps" (that looked like currency) were all retired in 2004 in favor of the debit card system.   All of the ones out there from the old program have no value.   They have to be "agreeable" about taking the card, it's the only option from the "take" menu and the only other option is "leave it."

Shows how much more I know since the last time I ran one through in a grocery store I was a cashier at in 90s.


cwolf,  I only learned this recently myself.  Was at a swap meet and a guy was selling a bunch of the old notes.  I was curious and he told me that his family used to own a grocery store and people were always bringing them in for a couple of years after they were retired only to find out they had no value.

I remember seeing them a lot when I was a teenager bagging groceries.
 
2013-05-01 11:28:08 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Because America is exactly like Africa and Haiti, just swarming with civil war-fighting armies, massive gangs, poachers, and evil dictatorships.


Has nothing to do with a person living outside their means or bringing people into the world they cannot possibly support.
 
2013-05-01 11:31:03 PM

Popular Opinion: i can provide a square meal for about $2.

lasagna
green salad (italian dressing)
garlic bread
lemonade or iced tea
oatmeal cookies or a cupcake

I do this for ~200 people several times a month at outreach centers
I buy the groceries retail (the cookies are already made), and don't get any special discounts.


You rock.  I like you based on this post alone.
 
2013-05-01 11:37:22 PM

o5iiawah: Keizer_Ghidorah: Because America is exactly like Africa and Haiti, just swarming with civil war-fighting armies, massive gangs, poachers, and evil dictatorships.

Has nothing to do with a person living outside their means or bringing people into the world they cannot possibly support.


In theory I agree with you.  I didn't get pregnant early like a lot of my peers because I "wasn't ready".  But I think you are thinking of the welfare queens., right?  Are you OK with sex ex and access to birth control, to keep those pesky children they can't afford at bay? Or should they hold an aspirin tablet between their knees instead of having sex?  Abstinence education works wonders - ask Bristol!
 
2013-05-01 11:38:56 PM
Sex Ed, obviously.
 
2013-05-01 11:56:53 PM

o5iiawah: Keizer_Ghidorah: Because America is exactly like Africa and Haiti, just swarming with civil war-fighting armies, massive gangs, poachers, and evil dictatorships.

Has nothing to do with a person living outside their means or bringing people into the world they cannot possibly support.


And if they had those children before they fell into welfare? And had those cars and rings and fancy things before the fell into welfare?
 
2013-05-02 12:06:32 AM

Popular Opinion: i can provide a square meal for about $2.

lasagna
green salad (italian dressing)
garlic bread
lemonade or iced tea
oatmeal cookies or a cupcake

I do this for ~200 people several times a month at outreach centers
I buy the groceries retail (the cookies are already made), and don't get any special discounts.


I challenge you to do all of that for $2 for a single person.  It is always cheaper when buying for more people, even if not buying in bulk.
 
2013-05-02 01:31:34 AM

Mock26: Popular Opinion: i can provide a square meal for about $2.

lasagna
green salad (italian dressing)
garlic bread
lemonade or iced tea
oatmeal cookies or a cupcake

I do this for ~200 people several times a month at outreach centers
I buy the groceries retail (the cookies are already made), and don't get any special discounts.

I challenge you to do all of that for $2 for a single person.  It is always cheaper when buying for more people, even if not buying in bulk.


yes, i cannot buy 25 cents worth of lettuce or pasta....
but having lived alone i had to accept that i would have to eat the same thing (leftovers) all week if i made enough at once to be practical. i don't make spaghetti or lasagna for one. i wouldn't try.
of course you can freeze it, or make spaghetti sammiches or something to try to vary it...lol
 
2013-05-02 01:52:30 AM

Mock26: I challenge you to do all of that for $2 for a single person.  It is always cheaper when buying for more people, even if not buying in bulk.


one word. Canning.

You better believe it can be done.
and it tastes awesome!
but it does take a little more time.
/you buy in bulk
 
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