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(WIBA 1310 Madison)   Wisconsin to force food stamps recipients to spend money on fruits and vegetables. And probably cheese since it's Wisconsin   (wiba.com) divider line 376
    More: Interesting, Wisconsin, Wisconsin State Assembly, junk foods, party-line vote, food stamps  
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6882 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 10:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 01:23:02 AM

Bumblefark: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

...And, that's precisely why it's a piss poor idea to politicize the diets of food stamp recipients.

They pull a package of oreos out of their shopping cart, and the busybody behind them screams "OMG JUNK FOOD! THE POORS NEED TO EAT BETTER!"

They pull out a package of shrimp, and the next busybody screams, "OMG FINE FOODS! THE POORS ARE EATING TOO WELL!"

Only in America can we as a society give so little to the poor, and be such self-righteous overbearing pricks about it...


Yup. You can apply this same shiat to healthcare too.
 
2013-05-01 01:23:49 AM
I'm in Madison and it would be easy enough for me to say that this should be law.  Aside from the Farmer's Market every Saturday morning we have Metcalfe's (gourmet grocery store with a seafood case to die for), Trader Joe's, Copps, Hy-Vee, Woodman's, Aldi, and the co-ops.  All are on bus lines and have at least a basic selection of fresh veggies, fruits, and meat.

The Inner City of Milwaukee though isn't as lucky: there's maybe one chain supermarket to serve 150,000 or so people, and it goes without saying that the place is probably picked clean much of the time.  What's left for food are these pathetic little shiatholes that are just sad.  And many rural counties don't fare well in food availability either.

Nutritious food has to be made accessible before you mandate its purchase.  Once you do that, I think we should allow 15% on each Quest card for junk food, soda, etc.: remember that most people on food stamp benefits have paid into the system as well
 
2013-05-01 01:24:56 AM

davidphogan: Google food desert and learn something. Grocery stores don't stay open in poor neighborhoods typically, and for someone without a car even in a city known for good public transit going two miles to the store can end up taking over thirty minutes each way on a bus each way, limits the amount of food that can be purchased in a trip significantly, and will cost about five dollars here.

So two trips to the store per week, just in bus fares, can end up being $40 per month.

There are real reasons that this is an issue. I'm glad for you that you haven't been in those shoes, but you might want to read up on the topic a little more.


I know exactly what a food desert is and I think the criteria for defining one is absurd - for reasons above.
I've also "been in those shoes"

If progressives are going to make the argument that supply is a function of demand, then they need to admit that food retailers in low income areas are simply providing what people are demanding.  I would argue that if every low income individual demanded quality food, fresh vegetables and healthy meat, stores would stock it and that sad, depressed looking shelf of overpriced bananas would now be a display bin full of bananas which turn over freshly and are cheaper because the store can buy in bulk.
 
2013-05-01 01:27:38 AM

eggrolls: Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.


I've been told that work as a component of public assistance is some sort of racist dogwhistle.  Careful how you tread.
 
2013-05-01 01:30:14 AM

eggrolls: Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.


*Always* hilarious when the capitalist revenge fantasy goes far enough around the bend that it becomes more or less indistinguishable from the practice of communism.
 
2013-05-01 01:33:27 AM

Bumblefark: eggrolls: Why don't we just cut out the middle man. Standardized bags of food, nutritionally balanced and calorically sufficient. Modified versions for Kosher, Hallal, diabetic, gluten, etc. You pick up your food allotment at the government food distribution center. Government buys in bulk, saves money, creates jobs at the distribution centers. Heck, subcontract them to Kroger, Publix and Stop & Shop so they don't complain about lost food stamp business. You want extra? There's a park that needs to be weeded, or a meals on wheels that needs weekend volunteers. This is public assistance, it's not supposed to be fun, or easier than working for your dinner.

*Always* hilarious when the capitalist revenge fantasy goes far enough around the bend that it becomes more or less indistinguishable from the practice of communism.


3 right turns = a left. :)
 
2013-05-01 01:38:47 AM

skullkrusher: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

man that'd piss me off if I saw that. Glad we put up that electrified fence to keep the poors out of the hood


Bumblefark: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

...And, that's precisely why it's a piss poor idea to politicize the diets of food stamp recipients.

They pull a package of oreos out of their shopping cart, and the busybody behind them screams "OMG JUNK FOOD! THE POORS NEED TO EAT BETTER!"

They pull out a package of shrimp, and the next busybody screams, "OMG FINE FOODS! THE POORS ARE EATING TOO WELL!"

Only in America can we as a society give so little to the poor, and be such self-righteous overbearing pricks about it...


Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass
 
2013-05-01 01:39:00 AM
Me and my wife get SNAP(food stamps) have to with 5 kids I went from a $25 hr job to a $12 hr job,both me and my wife work full time always have me since i was 14. we make dinner every night no steak and lobster. but stews,meat loaf,pork chops, potatoes,corn, green beans just homemade food yea we buy chips and pop. I think maybe the people who are trying to tell me what to eat or the people saying I live the taxes payers dollars maybe should look where the $200,000 a year paycheck comes from I pay taxes that means I pay for them but they can eat what they want go where they want all while writing it down on the tax payer bill.
 
2013-05-01 01:40:48 AM
I can get behind this type of regulation. SNAP already disallows purchase of ready to eat prepared foods (like deli sandwiches) and alcoholic beverages. I see no reason that ready to eat can't be expanded to include things like chips, cookies, boxed meal kits and frozen dinners.

There is a direct correlation between what a person eats and their health, and if they qualify for SNAP, it is highly likely they are also on medicaid or the kids are on CHIP. Regulations like this can actually save billions long term.

And I live in a very rural area. I am over an hour drive from the nearest large grocery store with a decent selection. And I am definitely in a produce desert. All I have to choose from locally is generally apples, celery, carrots, onions, iceberg lettuce, bananas, and either strawberries or blueberries. The prices on everything in the tiny local store average 60% higher than the store that is an hour away.

Solution? I can't drive an hour one way all the time, due to time constraints (not to mention how wasteful financially that would be). So I go once a month. I plan my menu out for the entire month before my trip. I purchase a mix of fresh and frozen produce. The fragile stuff gets eaten first, the hardier veggies and fruits with longer shelf life get eaten in week two (and some, like carrots and potatoes, well into week three), and the last week or so of the month I utilize the frozen stuff. I don't purchase many convenience foods, because when I do, my kids eat constantly, are sick all the time, and my grocery bill for a family of seven on mostly whole foods is around $750 per month. If I buy the common convenience foods, like frozen entrees and chips (which I've had to do in the past, most recently when we were moving and my kitchen was still mostly packed) it jumps to around $1100 per month. That is a vast difference. When I say I buy mostly whole foods, I do buy things like healthy cereals, pasta, and ketchup (seriously, who makes their own ketchup?).

I'm not trying to sound like some kind of sanctimonious biatch. I'm just pointing out that there are different ways of approaching food that make this very doable, even for the poor who work full time. I work full time with five kids, and I am self employed which for me means I work some pretty crazy hours. My answer to that is to prepare a bunch of meals and freeze them on my days off. Two to three days doing that and I have at least 25 dinners in the freezer ready to pop into the oven or crockpot. I make homemade bread but have honed my system so it takes less than 5 minutes each day to ensure we have sandwich bread, because I make my dough in large batches and freeze the formed, unbaked loaves.

That said, I actually enjoy my time in the kitchen and completely understand that some people would rather stab themselves in the eye with a pen than make a meal from scratch, but I'm chalking that one up in the "we all have to do things we don't like" category. I mean, I hate to clean and have little time to do it, but I do it. I'm not off spending federal and state dollars to hire a housekeeper. And when you are buying a crapton of convenience foods with SNAP, that is kind of what you are doing.
 
2013-05-01 01:42:20 AM

Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass


Yeah, I have. Next question?
 
2013-05-01 01:45:44 AM
The same twits biatching about this would have applauded if a Democrat had sponsored it.

Its a good solid idea. No candy, no soda, no chips, no junk food on Food stamps. Don't like it..well, get a job and by your twinkies with cash, Fatty.
 
2013-05-01 01:47:34 AM

Peki: Bumblefark: Intoxoman: I've been in line behind people using the food stamps, the old script type, harder to tell theses days. Shrimp, lobster tail , ribeyes, you name it I saw it. Then I'd put my items on the conveyor in disgust at what my $9/hour got me. Some onions, hamburger, hamburger helper, anything else I saw to add to hamburger helper, beans, hotdogs, you get the idea. This was the 90's but I did do 2 months of food stamps in the 80's. I had a lot of roommates, gave the whole pack of script to the girl in charge (she cooked yes but she WAS in charge) and it went towards....real food not shiat. I see no problem with this policy, spend it like you need it, I did.

...And, that's precisely why it's a piss poor idea to politicize the diets of food stamp recipients.

They pull a package of oreos out of their shopping cart, and the busybody behind them screams "OMG JUNK FOOD! THE POORS NEED TO EAT BETTER!"

They pull out a package of shrimp, and the next busybody screams, "OMG FINE FOODS! THE POORS ARE EATING TOO WELL!"


So, what about this? I've heard before (wish I could verify with a source) of delivery programs, and even think that they have been implemented with some success in certain areas which would lend themselves to such programs being practicable. Under this scheme, an eligible household would get biweekly or monthly delivery of staples - beans, rice, canned foods, even frozen foods. A dream system would even enable specific households to register a preference for certain goods - my kid loves this, more of it please, my kid is allergic to this, none of it please. Since the goods are staples, no issues with Oreos or lobsters, and hopefully, overall, no or few issues with junk food/luxury food gripes.
Obviously, there are issues. Dairy and meat are out, or used quickly, but as I don't know if it's the responsibility of the state to provide more than basic income or supplement what people can otherwise get, that doesn't particularly bother me. It would be expensive, and some would consider it intrusive (not me, I think those who advocate complete freedom in the spending of public benefit are wackos, but some would). There are ways to keep expenses down, though, perhaps by coordinating it to some extent with postal routes, or restricting it only to whose who are registered violators of the basic system and its freedoms.
Thoughts on this as a proposal/any experience with or knowledge of any ways it has been attempted?
 
2013-05-01 01:47:48 AM

o5iiawah: Wait, who doesn't have access to pots and pans?


After I got divorced I moved into a studio apartment. It has a mini fridge, a microwave and a hotplate. After 11 months, I have not yet bought any pots or pans. I usually work 12 hours a day (drive a taxi), so I eat my one meal a day wherever I happen to be when I get hungry.

Popular Opinion: take him camping for a week.


No thanks. My apartment DOES have a bed.
 
2013-05-01 01:50:24 AM
We hate big government! So lets force the big government to require us to purchase certain foods!
 
2013-05-01 01:50:50 AM
So I'm going to have to memorize a list of what they decide is "junk food" and what they decide is "whole food," Or risk getting to the checkout and getting HERP DERP REJECTED when I swipe my card, because I bought one too many "bad" food items? I already spend most of my food money on cheese, meat, grains, and vegetables, but maybe I have some money left over at the end of the month and I'm having people over and I want to go buy some chips and salsa? Do I also have to buy an eggplant or have the transaction fail?

This kind of micromanagement looks like nothing but a way to try and subvert benefits programs by burying them in red tape and overhead. That way they can be targeted as "waste" when the spending cuts come. Notice how the people supporting it are republicans?
 
2013-05-01 01:53:39 AM

Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass

Yeah, I have. Next question?


Ok I'll bite. It was one person who bought all those items at one time. It's still in my memory seeing the bill (yes it was in my view, it was a Food Lion on South Blvd., Charlotte, NC if you have to know) and it was $198. I do have a good memory , take it as you will. I'm a blue collar worker so my next question is-You haven't seen abuse of the system?
 
2013-05-01 01:54:55 AM

incrdbil: The same twits biatching about this would have applauded if a Democrat had sponsored it.

Its a good solid idea. No candy, no soda, no chips, no junk food on Food stamps. Don't like it..well, get a job and by your twinkies with cash, Fatty.


And if my uncle had wings, he could fly!
 
2013-05-01 01:56:44 AM

Moonlightfox: So I'm going to have to memorize a list of what they decide is "junk food" and what they decide is "whole food," Or risk getting to the checkout and getting HERP DERP REJECTED when I swipe my card, because I bought one too many "bad" food items?


The WIC program seems to work with really specific requirements.


I already spend most of my food money on cheese, meat, grains, and vegetables, but maybe I have some money left over at the end of the month and I'm having people over and I want to go buy some chips and salsa?

Then make a separate transaction for the chips and salsa and pay with your money. Ta-Da!
 
2013-05-01 02:01:29 AM

Godscrack: This doesn't make sense. Forcing the masses to eat right will only make them healthier. And smarter.

Republicans don't like thinking people. Who are they going to fill the jails with?


Heh. Except for the part where if they were healthy and smart they might get off government assistance.

Which is where the Democrats want to keep them.
 
2013-05-01 02:07:04 AM
Bathia_Mapes:

No idea if it was from this thread, but thanks.
 
2013-05-01 02:08:34 AM

Moonlightfox: So I'm going to have to memorize a list of what they decide is "junk food" and what they decide is "whole food," Or risk getting to the checkout and getting HERP DERP REJECTED when I swipe my card, because I bought one too many "bad" food items? I already spend most of my food money on cheese, meat, grains, and vegetables, but maybe I have some money left over at the end of the month and I'm having people over and I want to go buy some chips and salsa? Do I also have to buy an eggplant or have the transaction fail?

This kind of micromanagement looks like nothing but a way to try and subvert benefits programs by burying them in red tape and overhead. That way they can be targeted as "waste" when the spending cuts come. Notice how the people supporting it are republicans?


Well, the article points out that it's 2/3rds of your monthly food bill if you're on food stamps.  If you've already spent most of your food money on cheese, meat, grains and vegetables and have a little money left over, there is nothing wrong with you buying some candy.  It's like you either didn't read the article or read it and decided to make it more complex than it really is to be outraged.

And why is this a bad program?  Let's look at it this way: have those on food stamps eat healthier.  Most likely they are already on medicaid, so with a healthier diet there's less tax money going to health problems associated with bad diet, plus children who's parents are on food stamps will be fed healthier food, thus the government ends up spending less money on them as well.

The only reason why the Democrats really hate this is that it wasn't their idea.  Michelle Obama has come out vocally against childhood obesity and in favor of having healthier meals for children, this bill sponsored by a Republican follows Michelle Obama's wishes.  So the only reason why the Democrats are against it is pure partisanship.  If the Republicans would come out in favor of pro-gay marriage during the Bush presidency(either Bush), the Democrats would have found a reason to be against it.
 
2013-05-01 02:09:07 AM

Intoxoman: Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass

Yeah, I have. Next question?

Ok I'll bite. It was one person who bought all those items at one time. It's still in my memory seeing the bill (yes it was in my view, it was a Food Lion on South Blvd., Charlotte, NC if you have to know) and it was $198. I do have a good memory , take it as you will. I'm a blue collar worker so my next question is-You haven't seen abuse of the system?


Sure, I've seen some clever ways of getting the "most" out of the benefits offered, but I don't fault people for that, and it usually isn't sustainable anyway. (At some point, you've got to get around to stocking the basics, which the established program is quite good at, so the "splurge" was probably a one-off, maybe to celebrate something...*shrugs*...I just don't think that going on public assistance should require opening your private life up to such a level of scrutiny or control that society gets to dictate what is and isn't appropriate for you to buy on one random Tuesday afternoon. It degrades both parties involved...)

My family ran the food bank for a somewhat poor town in Northern Idaho for a number of years. We stocked all sorts of stuff, from junk food to fine foods. Prided ourselves on selection we provided. And we never questioned what people took home with them. It wasn't our business. Our job was to keep them fed. So, that's the perspective I come to this sort of stuff with...for whatever it's worth.
 
2013-05-01 02:10:10 AM
In other news. People like those atm cards ahem food stamps the government gives them...
 
2013-05-01 02:10:26 AM
I love the logic that says these people have NO TIME to waste going to the store more often...or NO TIME  to cook their children breakfast, make a sack lunch, or cook dinner.

I guess they are all too busy making partner putting in 80 weeks.
 
2013-05-01 02:18:41 AM
incrdbil: The WIC program seems to work with really specific requirements.

The wic requirements aren't different depending on what you're buying and wic-approved foods are clearly marked in stores. Currently the rules for food stamps ARE definitely too lax, but they're consistent. Either something is allowed or it is not and that's how it should stay. Ban soda and candy or don't. I'm also concerned it's going to be politicized and things like lean red meat and cheese will be put on the "junk food" list because there's a few too many vegetarians on the committee that ends up making the list.

Then make a separate transaction for the chips and salsa and pay with your money. Ta-Da!

Did you consider this statement before you posted it or are you really trying to be this condescending?
 
2013-05-01 02:20:26 AM
What the fark is this obsession with poor people wasting your tax money, when corporations swindle BILLIONS more tax dollars from us and nobody says boo?
 
2013-05-01 02:30:28 AM

Moonlightfox: I'm also concerned it's going to be politicized and things like lean red meat and cheese will be put on the "junk food" list because there's a few too many vegetarians on the committee that ends up making the list.


/not sure if serious
 
2013-05-01 02:31:35 AM
So let me get this straight..

(Many) people thought it was a great idea when Michelle Obama spearheaded schools to change their lunchrooms to only provide "healthy" food and get rid of all the soda/snack machines, basically forcing kids to eat this crap at school.. but a REPUBLICAN comes up with something that would encourage SNAP recipients to eat healthier, and all of a sudden it's a fracking horrible idea.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Michelle's response to this idea. Does she *gasp* agree with the Republican, or does she go full-on hypocrite?
 
2013-05-01 02:35:34 AM

Euk: I guess they assume that all poor people all have access to working kitchens, pots, pans, plates, working sinks and the various things someone living the life above the poverty level takes for granted. You know, if the poor have it so great, why would anyone ever work?

Maybe if they just pulled up on their bootstraps hard, they'd be able to cook without access to some or all of that stuff. Maybe improvise a nice cooking area using a broken shopping cart and some copies of phone book no one uses anymore.


Vegetablesand fruit can be eaten raw as can bread. They dont even need a knife.
 
2013-05-01 02:35:58 AM

Southern100: (Many) people thought it was a great idea when Michelle Obama spearheaded schools to change their lunchrooms to only provide "healthy" food and get rid of all the soda/snack machines, basically forcing kids to eat this crap at school..


Yes, promoting healthy diet and exercise is a terrible thing for young people.  We're Americans, Fat and Proud!

/no, I have no problem with the current proposal either.
 
2013-05-01 02:37:45 AM

Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Bumblefark: Intoxoman: Its because I've actually been on the food stamps, have you? Take a drive in the shiatty section of town when the kids go to school. Note the fat kids. There's a lot. There's a lot of ways to scam food stamps, if you want to call me a prick for knowing they do it then fark your ignorant ass

Yeah, I have. Next question?

Ok I'll bite. It was one person who bought all those items at one time. It's still in my memory seeing the bill (yes it was in my view, it was a Food Lion on South Blvd., Charlotte, NC if you have to know) and it was $198. I do have a good memory , take it as you will. I'm a blue collar worker so my next question is-You haven't seen abuse of the system?

Sure, I've seen some clever ways of getting the "most" out of the benefits offered, but I don't fault people for that, and it usually isn't sustainable anyway. (At some point, you've got to get around to stocking the basics, which the established program is quite good at, so the "splurge" was probably a one-off, maybe to celebrate something...*shrugs*...I just don't think that going on public assistance should require opening your private life up to such a level of scrutiny or control that society gets to dictate what is and isn't appropriate for you to buy on one random Tuesday afternoon. It degrades both parties involved...)

My family ran the food bank for a somewhat poor town in Northern Idaho for a number of years. We stocked all sorts of stuff, from junk food to fine foods. Prided ourselves on selection we provided. And we never questioned what people took home with them. It wasn't our business. Our job was to keep them fed. So, that's the perspective I come to this sort of stuff with...for whatever it's worth.


Idaho explains a bit (no offense) though I live in Oregon now the abuses I saw were in NC. I'm sure your on the fighting for the needy mission, that's fine. I just don't get why you think it's ok to abuse the system. It's late, I'm off respond if you will nite
 
2013-05-01 02:38:37 AM
Well this thread has gone full derp. I'm out.

img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-05-01 02:52:21 AM

Intoxoman: Idaho explains a bit (no offense) though I live in Oregon now the abuses I saw were in NC. I'm sure your on the fighting for the needy mission, that's fine. I just don't get why you think it's ok to abuse the system. It's late, I'm off respond if you will nite


No offense taken...I'm now in the great state of Texas, and things are so much better here...wait, just threw up. Ok, threw up a little more. There's a bit of blood this time. And maybe corn. ...Ok, better now.

I don't think it's ok to abuse charity, whether private or public. I just also don't think it's ok to abuse people who take charity, by making them conform to your own tastes or fashions -- dietary or otherwise.

And the latter is the worse offense, since it turns charity into a stupid, resentful power-grab against people who aren't in a position to argue. You know...sort of the opposite of what charity is supposed to be.
 
2013-05-01 02:59:06 AM

KrispyKritter: if states want recipients to receive best value they should survey the family and have a package delivered to them weekly. bulk purchasing would = more value for the money. delivery would help those who can't easily get around. no stamps = junkies aren't selling them for change on the dollar.


was just getting ready to post something very similar. Pre- packaged, health, meals, delivered.
 
2013-05-01 03:04:28 AM

mr lawson: Pre- packaged, health, meals, delivered.


Quick, cheap, or good, pick two of the three.

/pre-packaged and "healthy" don't usually go together
 
2013-05-01 03:05:45 AM
I'm all for providing a fellow citizen of my country with a basic income they can live on in quiet dignity from cradle to grave regardless of their ability or willingness to work. And I'm perfectly happy for my tax dollars to be used for this purpose.

I'm against allowing those supporting themselves on public funding having the option or even the ability to procreate.

So instead of forcing the people who can't support themselves to buy vegetables or take drug tests or whatever, just require them to pick up their welfare check/free money at a government building after receiving a monthly shot of contraceptive. If that is too inconvenient allow them the option of direct deposit but only if they are willing to undergo surgical sterilization (of course provided for free along with all followup visits).

Conservatives hate this idea because it requires acknowledging poor people and slackers as our human brothers and sisters. Liberals hate this idea because it would prevent multi-generational government dependency which provides a significant percentage of their voter base.
 
2013-05-01 03:06:09 AM

Bathia_Mapes: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.

That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.


It's almost as if they don't actually care or think about people on assistance.
 
2013-05-01 03:11:51 AM

RembrandtQEinstein: I'm all for providing a fellow citizen of my country with a basic income they can live on in quiet dignity from cradle to grave regardless of their ability or willingness to work. And I'm perfectly happy for my tax dollars to be used for this purpose.

I'm against allowing those supporting themselves on public funding having the option or even the ability to procreate.

So instead of forcing the people who can't support themselves to buy vegetables or take drug tests or whatever, just require them to pick up their welfare check/free money at a government building after receiving a monthly shot of contraceptive. If that is too inconvenient allow them the option of direct deposit but only if they are willing to undergo surgical sterilization (of course provided for free along with all followup visits).

Conservatives hate this idea because it requires acknowledging poor people and slackers as our human brothers and sisters. Liberals hate this idea because it would prevent multi-generational government dependency which provides a significant percentage of their voter base.


And those who are literate in either history or biology hate this idea because you're a farking moron.

But, go on.
 
2013-05-01 03:24:12 AM

Peki: /pre-packaged and "healthy" don't usually go together


never said cheap :-)
 
2013-05-01 03:29:08 AM

mr lawson: Peki: /pre-packaged and "healthy" don't usually go together

never said cheap :-)


analogy.
 
2013-05-01 03:29:15 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

My only beef (Ha!) with your statement is the implicit costs of fresh stuff. Transportation (car, bus, walking, etc) is really limited for the poor at certain times. Storage is also a bit tougher since most people on assistance are families, and limited fridge space can mean less availability for storage, especially leftovers. And finally, time is an issue. If a parent comes home after a long and/or crappy shift, it IS easier to throw mac and cheese together than actually do the cooking for a more nutritious meal. Give the kid a PB&J sandwich + a pack of poptarts for lunch because it's fast and mornings can be a rush as it is.

Raising the minimum wage would help immensely.


Yes, let's just raise the minimum wage to $10,000 an hour. That way, we can all drive Ferraris and eat lobster and aragula. Your economic acumen is enthralling!
 
2013-05-01 03:33:49 AM
Conservatives think economic freedom is the ability to pick between 15 kinds of shampoo.

Liberals think economic freedom is the ability to buy the shampoo in the first place.
 
2013-05-01 03:36:04 AM

o5iiawah: I know exactly what a food desert is and I think the criteria for defining one is absurd - for reasons above.
I've also "been in those shoes"

If progressives are going to make the argument that supply is a function of demand, then they need to admit that food retailers in low income areas are simply providing what people are demanding.  I would argue that if every low income individual demanded quality food, fresh vegetables and healthy meat, stores would stock it and that sad, depressed looking shelf of overpriced bananas would now be a display bin full of bananas which turn over freshly and are cheaper because the store can buy in bulk.


The problem is that it becomes a whirlpool, just sucking down the general situation.  The people who have the least money are the cheapest shoppers, so they buy the loss leader deals that the supermarket runs to get shoppers who will buy high margin items as well.  The problem is that the loss leader just becomes a loss, and it's frequently the processed food variety, because for $0.99 you can get a can of chili or a frozen pizza that seems like a meal.

So, at least in the situations I'm most familiar with, the grocer who is already facing the squeeze of having low profit margins to start with, can't afford to stay open.  In turn, the residents of that neighborhood suddenly lose what's available to them without having created demand for quality low cost produce.

I had a disabled neighbor, a Navy veteran from the 1960's, who lived on about $800/mo plus his approximately $100 in Oregon Trail benefits who justified eating about 20 $1 pizzas a month just to be sure he didn't run out of benefits before the month ended.  He know how to cook, but because he couldn't drive he hoarded his benefits because he was worried one of us couldn't drive him and would stock up on cheap pizza so he could afford eggs, bread, and butter if he had to buy them at the local minimarts that charge $4.99 for a dozen eggs or $2.99 for a loaf of white bread.

The nearest grocery store was great, but it was an all organic/natural coop and pretty damn expensive.  The nearest supermarket was about 1.25 miles, and that's actually a fairly long distance for a disabled 70-something year old who doesn't have a car.
 
2013-05-01 03:43:44 AM
Liberals think the government should buy their shampoo, and cell phones, and food, and cars, and hookers and blow.
 
2013-05-01 03:47:35 AM

Friction8r: Liberals think the government should buy their shampoo, and cell phones, and food, and cars, and hookers and blow.


Like Conservatives don't? They just call it corporate sponsorship.
 
2013-05-01 04:00:55 AM

Bumblefark: And those who are literate in either history or biology hate this idea because you're a farking moron.

But, go on.


I'm sure your rapier wit is feared in debating societies all throughout the land.
 
2013-05-01 04:05:42 AM
Up next:  GMO-only fruits and vegetables to pocket the gene patenters.
 
2013-05-01 04:33:24 AM

davidphogan: So two trips to the store per week, just in bus fares, can end up being $40 per month.


Yes, because people with cars don't spend money on transportation?

I don't have a car, but I'm not going to start complaining that people have to pay for stuff.

Hell, if the place you live sucks so much, why not move?

Some people fail at life and they do so deservedly. (Peki sounds like one...)
 
2013-05-01 04:54:14 AM

doglover: Find a way to make money.


He says to the children, whom are required to attend school and forbidden from working, driving, and voting.
 
2013-05-01 04:59:43 AM

redslippers: There is a direct correlation between what a person eats and their health


If this is an important public health issue, we should apply these rules to the public at large, not just to people who happen to be on a food assistance program.
 
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