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(WIBA 1310 Madison)   Wisconsin to force food stamps recipients to spend money on fruits and vegetables. And probably cheese since it's Wisconsin   (wiba.com) divider line 376
    More: Interesting, Wisconsin, Wisconsin State Assembly, junk foods, party-line vote, food stamps  
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6886 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 10:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 10:50:24 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: factoryconnection: Bathia_Mapes: That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.

Beans and rice are whole foods, as are frozen and canned veggies, and all are far better than the heavily-processed junk food that they're targeting.

Food stamps (TANF, SNAP) are meant to SUPPLEMENT the food budget for families.  The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.  Yeah, veggies are more expensive than nutrient-bereft corn chips, but they also don't lead to a poor populace that is both obese and malnourished.  White rice isn't that good for you, but at least it doesn't come with a litany of 25-cent-word processing ingredients.

Yes, SNAP is meant to supplement a family's food budget, but in reality it's often the only source a family has to buy food. It's not uncommon for the work income of a family to go towards rent, transportation to & from work, necessary clothing, etc., with nothing left to purchase food.

BTW-TANF is cash benefits and not everyone on SNAP gets TANF.


I'm sure you have at least a single study showing SNAP/TANF is essentially the full food budget for people on those programs.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:39 PM  

IronOcelot: basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.
Holy crap! Yes it was.


I'm going to have to agree with y'all here.  I grew up in Wisconsin, and I still loved the government cheese.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:43 PM  

basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.


The only problem was, it came in a 5 pound block, un sliced, so you either had to grate it, or, take your chances with a large knige, and enf up with a "wedge" slice of cheese, that started out thin, and ended up thick,

It actually was decent American cheese.
 
2013-04-30 10:50:51 PM  

Infernalist: Great Janitor: Well, if the government is feeding you, don't they get a say in what you eat?

Sure, but they have to compensate for the price difference between 'cheap essentials' like rice, beans and milk and eggs and bread and lunch meats....and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies.  Because they'll quickly run out of benefits before the end of the month if they don't compensate for the higher prices of those healthy foods.


Or, they could do the smart thing and budget out their monthly government benefits.  The word 'fresh' wasn't required, so they aren't saying that food stamp people have to buy fresh fruits and veggies.  Canned and frozen are still options.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:02 PM  

machoprogrammer: If they allow purchasing frozen vegetables, I don't see the big deal. Frozen are as healthy as fresh and last basically forever. Cheaper, too.


It's not like the fresh stuff disappears into the ether either. Bruising bananas can be frozen and turned into banana bread. Fruit and vegetables can be jammed or preserved. Hell you can even just outright freeze the fresh stuff if you don't mind the flavor and texture hit.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:03 PM  
Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:34 PM  

Mock26: machoprogrammer: If they allow purchasing frozen vegetables, I don't see the big deal. Frozen are as healthy as fresh and last basically forever. Cheaper, too.

I always have various bags of frozen vegetables in my freezer and cans of tomatoes and boxes of pasta in my fridge.  They are great for a quick meal when I have not yet had time to go to the grocery store that week.


Agreed. I go through two family packs of frozen vegetables a week ($2.50 each). $5 a week for vegetables? Not too shabby.
 
2013-04-30 10:51:37 PM  
 Sounds like a good idea to place some restrictions on what can be purchased. Of course it's nothing more that political posturing so walker can look like he's getting tough on those dirty poor people and will get smacked down just as soon as he realizes that it's just as much corporate wellfare as it is people welfare. I'm willing to bet money that after the first call from one of his donors in the food industry he'll realize he doesn't really want to go there.

Hypnozombie
 
2013-04-30 10:52:35 PM  

lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.


Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?
 
2013-04-30 10:52:56 PM  
I'm a New Yorker and by my absolute volume I will squish one of u to smidge of rice.
 
2013-04-30 10:53:32 PM  

take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income


How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.
 
2013-04-30 10:53:38 PM  

IronOcelot: basemetal: Government cheese was good stuff, best grilled cheese ever.
Holy crap! Yes it was.


Yeah, except it came in a 5lb block, unsliced.  So, you either had to grate it, or take your chances slicing it with a knife.  Slicing it tended to create slices that were wedge shaped.  Started off thin, but lost it in the middle, and it got thicker as you reached the bottom.  My solution was to get two wedge shaped pieces, and lay them on each other, thin end to thick end, to make one, large slab for grilling.

it actually was decent American cheese.
 
2013-04-30 10:53:44 PM  

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


Dairy is not good for everyone. Most people who aren't white are lactose intolerant, although this can definitely apply to a lot of white folks as well.
 
2013-04-30 10:54:47 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Sure. Force them to spend two thirds of the monthly SNAP on fruits and veggies that will be rotten within a week, leaving three weeks of starvation on what little food stamps are left.

Cunning plan. Not all the way through. Etc. Etc.


Just so ya know, it doesn't actually say that two-thirds needs to be spent on fruits and veggies. the bill is aimed more at telling people what they canNOT buy with the majority of their card money... No soda, no chips, no candy. Anything reasonably healthy would be still allowed.
 
2013-04-30 10:55:03 PM  
Yeah, because politicizing public assistance down to the level of a person's diet isn't at all petty or spiteful, and is sure to make for some sound policy...
 
2013-04-30 10:55:08 PM  
Oh, no.  How terrible!  I enjoy paying for people to eat shiat and get sick, and then pay for their healthcare, too!
 
2013-04-30 10:55:12 PM  
This means that people on food stamps will actually be healthier than people who earn enough income to not need benefits.
 
2013-04-30 10:55:19 PM  

Mock26: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?


I can find fresh chicken for 89¢ a pound all the time, and fresh boneless skinless chicken breast for $1.79 a pound. I just slow cooked a 6 pound pork shoulder that I got for $1.79 a pound.
 
2013-04-30 10:56:00 PM  
I did a word search in TFA.  The word 'fresh' doesn't appear.  So why are people bring it up as a reason why it's a bad idea?
 
2013-04-30 10:56:00 PM  

Mock26: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

If I was on SNAP I would be buying a lot of dried beans and rice, and not too much fresh vegetables.

They can buy frozen vegetables.


Since we became empty nesters we can't eat fresh veggies fast enough before they go bad. Kroger carries 3 lb bags of frozen veggies for about $3.50 and they taste just fine if you don't overcook them.

In the town I used to live in, I regularly saw poor white trash fill their carts with crap food, their overweight kids ripping into bags of chips before they even left the store. Junk food was a rare treat for me growing up. I grew up on the poor side. My grandma had an epic garden and used to bring over brown paper sacks of veggies every week. As an adult I now appreciate how helpful that was to our family at the time. I just love vegetables. It's a shame more kids today don't have the chance to learn to love them too.
 
2013-04-30 10:56:27 PM  

skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility


And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:22 PM  

Mock26: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?


That's pretty cheap. I can get a whole chicken at $1.99/lb in NYC though.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:26 PM  
Oh that's farking smart. make people dependent on assistance pay out of pocket for the only real food in the grocery store. Yes meat is a real food, but given the price increases the last 10 years, outside of chicken, it's becoming more and more of a luxury item. Yes grains and breads are real foods, but if people are "living" on those, we get a nation of over-carbed fat asses. everything else in the grocery store is bullshiat. hamburger helper, oreos, doritos, frozen pizza, and fig newtens, canned and frozen foods are not what you should be encouraging people to live on on a daily basis.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:26 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: That said, these foods can be hard to come by for some people without transportation, so it should be paired with addressing the lack of quality food in impoverished areas.


Actually, you would think that the more rural a place is, the better access it has to fruits and vegetables.

Never once have I been in a store...from a small corner store to a large super Wal-Mart and not seen fruits and vegetables.  Bananas are cheap. Apples are cheap. Carrots are cheap.  Each costs the same as a bag of chips.

This comes down to people not wanting to make stuff when they get home from work.  Its easier to boil up some spaghetti-os or velveta cheez than it is to chop some fruits and vegetables.  The end result of a shiatty diet is actually hungrier kids, whose bodies are craving actual nutrients.  Go ahead and eat healthy for a week.  You'd be amazed how much your body doens't get salt/sugar cravings and how long something as stupid as an apple can go towards keeping you full for a while.  I'm a 28 year old normal sized dude and a $.70 apple for breakfast tides me over just fine until Lunch.

Infernalist: and the higher prices of things like fresh fruits and veggies.


Yeah about that.  Staple fruits and veggies are not that expensive.

Apples: $2/lb
Onions: $1/lb
Grapefruit: $1/ea
Mango: 2 for $3
2lb Bag of carrots: $2.99
Oranges: $1/ea
Limes: 3/$1

and I live in the northeast. my local grocer is one of the nicer ones in the area.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:27 PM  

Bumblefark: Yeah, because politicizing public assistance down to the level of a person's diet isn't at all petty or spiteful, and is sure to make for some sound policy...


I'm pretty sure this is just the first strike.  The next will be "See, they can buy healthy food with 2/3 of their food stamps, that means we can cut the budget by 1/3".
 
2013-04-30 10:57:35 PM  

take_flight: Mock26: lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.

Where the fark are you living that you can get fresh chicken for $0.89/pound?

I can find fresh chicken for 89¢ a pound all the time, and fresh boneless skinless chicken breast for $1.79 a pound. I just slow cooked a 6 pound pork shoulder that I got for $1.79 a pound.


89cents a pound sounds like a decent sale price for bone-in chicken. Boneless, comes out to 2 to 2.50 a pound on a decent sale.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:58 PM  
I keep hearing about Wisconsin cheese but I've never seen it here is it only available in  Wisconsin  ?
 
2013-04-30 10:58:28 PM  

Hermione_Granger: skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility

And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.


how is eliminating junk food from eligibility going to force people to live on apples and onions?
I don't think there is any sort of slippery slope here
 
2013-04-30 10:59:10 PM  

factoryconnection: The government need not be in the business of subsidizing diabetes, heart disease, strokes, and other dietary killers among the poor, for whom the limited healthcare they receive is often paid for by... the government.


The Government likely does that already.   Silly Farker, Capitalism will ALWAYS trump health or safety.

If you want to get bootstrappy, strip the folks like Kraft, Pepsico, Nestle and Tyson of their tax subsidies.  Do they get subsidies?, hell if I know, but they're big enough to have buddies on Capitol Hill, so it's very likely they do.

Make the price of a two-liter bottle of soda five bucks, the "Family Size" bag of Doritos 10 bucks, see how fast those will stay on the shelves longer.
 
2013-04-30 10:59:42 PM  

lolpix: take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income

How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.


Yeah, my husband was self-employed in the same business as he is actually, and it killed us too.

He just doesn't report it, and what he does report he takes every single deduction possible. Somehow he claimed a deduction for a $13,000 skid steer, yet only reported $10,000 in income for the year. It seems like they would catch on to that sooner or later. No one even questions how he can afford anything on the less than $200 he claims he makes a week.
 
2013-04-30 11:01:12 PM  

Molavian: Oh, no.  How terrible!  I enjoy paying for people to eat shiat and get sick, and then pay for their healthcare, too!


Make no mistake about it. Your money goes to insure you seldom have to interact with poor people.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:08 PM  

skullkrusher: Hermione_Granger: skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility

And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.

how is eliminating junk food from eligibility going to force people to live on apples and onions?
I don't think there is any sort of slippery slope here


I don't agree with the idea of slippery slope, but SNAP is already limited in what you can buy. But instead of saying "Up to x% allowed on junk-food category of items" and junk food is.. a slippery term - they're saying "X% must be spent on x,y,z."

It's not the way I'd do it, especially since XYZ include higher-priced items that don't last as long as other items (Unless frozen/canned veggies are allowed.).

Sure, people can can/freeze fresh fruits and veggies, but does anyone here really know how if they don't already? I certainly don't, and I consider myself relatively well rounded on things like that.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:18 PM  

Hermione_Granger: skullkrusher: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Fruits and vegetables aren't as expensive as people make them out to be. Sure if you're going to buy organic ginger tended to by Tibetan monks, it's going to cost you, but your general stock fruit and vegetables aren't very much. I think the most I spend on a per item basis is lemons, which are like eighty cents.

I'd like to see the percentage of food stamps that must be spent on these ways relaxed to allow for some lean meat, but I'm not altogether against the idea.

they could just eliminate whatever they're calling "junk food" entirely from eligibility

And so when a kid needs something for a food day at school, or even a parent for a food day at work, I guess we should relegate them to a bag of apples or onions.

The rules you accept for poor people will eventually apply to everyone. Be careful what you ask for.


Your greatest concern with this policy is that a child may bring a bag of onions to a food day at school? Wrap those onions in foil, put a slab of butter inside, and stick them in the oven until they carmelize. Kid'll be the star of the show.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:25 PM  

revrendjim: Frito-Lay and Coca-Cola will make some "campaign contributions" and this bill will quietly go away.


A couple months ago I was behind a high school girl buying flaming hot Cheetos with food stamps. That's not what the program is for


You'd think someone like Michelle Obama would be behind something like this, but since its republicans doing it, it will be seen as evil
 
2013-04-30 11:03:29 PM  

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


Unless you are lactose intolerant.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:30 PM  
I'm with the "fruit and veg isn't that expensive" group. Bananas have to be the biggest nutrition bargain you can buy. Apples are super cheap. Sure, fancy honeycrisps are $4 a pound, but you can get yummy Braeburns for under a dollar a pound. Potatoes and carrots are pennies a pound. Also, in SD you can spend snap money on food--bearing seeds and plants. Anyone can grow tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers. You can even grow them in containers.

But people don't want to buy ingredients and cook. Because laziness.
 
2013-04-30 11:03:40 PM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: Oh that's farking smart. make people dependent on assistance pay out of pocket for the only real food in the grocery store. Yes meat is a real food, but given the price increases the last 10 years, outside of chicken, it's becoming more and more of a luxury item. Yes grains and breads are real foods, but if people are "living" on those, we get a nation of over-carbed fat asses. everything else in the grocery store is bullshiat. hamburger helper, oreos, doritos, frozen pizza, and fig newtens, canned and frozen foods are not what you should be encouraging people to live on on a daily basis.


wtfamireading.jpg
 
2013-04-30 11:03:51 PM  
I didn't read the part about the new law their gonna pass to prevent merchants from doubling the price on any such produce when this goes into effect.

I mean, they are going to do that right?
 
2013-04-30 11:03:56 PM  

take_flight: lolpix: take_flight: hides bf-now-recently-husband's self-employment income

How do they do that? I ask because my Schedule SE murders me each year.

Yeah, my husband was self-employed in the same business as he is actually, and it killed us too.

He just doesn't report it, and what he does report he takes every single deduction possible. Somehow he claimed a deduction for a $13,000 skid steer, yet only reported $10,000 in income for the year. It seems like they would catch on to that sooner or later. No one even questions how he can afford anything on the less than $200 he claims he makes a week.


I don't think I could get away with that. 90% or more of my income is reported on corporate 1099 forms. They'd catch me sooner or later.
 
2013-04-30 11:04:05 PM  

Any Pie Left: Cheese and any dairy are good for people, you get calcium and vitamin D, at least. As a snack food, it could be better than say, candy and cookies.


What about the lactose-intolerant poor?
 
2013-04-30 11:04:14 PM  
So, some of you had no knife skills.
 
2013-04-30 11:04:34 PM  

HypnozombieX: Of course it's nothing more that political posturing so walker can look like he's getting tough on those dirty poor people



It started out worse -- according to a news report a couple weeks ago, there was going to be language in the bill prohibiting using the benefit on 'really good steaks' and lobster, but I see that part never made it into the final bill.
 
2013-04-30 11:05:08 PM  

poison_amy: I'm with the "fruit and veg isn't that expensive" group. Bananas have to be the biggest nutrition bargain you can buy. Apples are super cheap. Sure, fancy honeycrisps are $4 a pound, but you can get yummy Braeburns for under a dollar a pound. Potatoes and carrots are pennies a pound. Also, in SD you can spend snap money on food--bearing seeds and plants. Anyone can grow tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers. You can even grow them in containers.

But people don't want to buy ingredients and cook. Because laziness.


Or they're clueless, or lack the items to do so, or lack the time to do so.

I mean, in theory I could feed myself from 'raw ingrediants', but in practice the kitchen is always a mess (4 people in this house, the other 3 dont' clean up after themselves), and stuff always goes missing.
 
2013-04-30 11:05:12 PM  

lawboy87: Some of you think that fresh fruit and veggies are expensive?  Compared to what?

I've seen the carts loaded up at the store (and I'm not trying to stereotype, but it's exactly the same as it was 35 years ago when I was sacking groceries and people had to use the old "script") now paid with the state debit card and it is almost always 90% pre-made/pre-cooked "convenience" foods.  Lots of soda, chips, pop tarts, pastries and the like, but almost never anything bearing a resemblance to something healthy.

Sorry, but paying $5.99 for an 24 oz serving of fried chicken (when a good 8 oz's of that is breading and oil) while fresh chicken is available at $.89/lb is not a good use of resources.  Buying a can of corn for $1, when you can buy 3-4 ears of fresh corn for $1 is also a waste.  There's lots of examples I could probably provide, compare the cost of the convenience and junk food product being currently purchased and it dwarfs what is being spent on actual nutritious and healthy foods.

I do the family's shopping and cooking, and I am going to seriously challenge anyone's assertion that fresh fruits and vegetables are "too expensive." Simply because they are often downright reasonable, compared to the cost of calorie-laden convenience and snack food items devoid of even the most basic nutritional value.  Factor in the cost to the state for treating obesity, childhood diabetes, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with this mandate.


My only beef (Ha!) with your statement is the implicit costs of fresh stuff. Transportation (car, bus, walking, etc) is really limited for the poor at certain times. Storage is also a bit tougher since most people on assistance are families, and limited fridge space can mean less availability for storage, especially leftovers. And finally, time is an issue. If a parent comes home after a long and/or crappy shift, it IS easier to throw mac and cheese together than actually do the cooking for a more nutritious meal. Give the kid a PB&J sandwich + a pack of poptarts for lunch because it's fast and mornings can be a rush as it is.

Raising the minimum wage would help immensely.
 
2013-04-30 11:05:27 PM  
We can all pretend like Republicans suddenly care about healthy eating.

Or, we can look at their responses any time Michelle Obama suggests kids should eat their vegetables, and recognize this for what it is: "lets stick it to those stupid poors!"

/This will create lawsuits under the 5th Amendment
//I suspect that's part of the WIGOP's plan
 
2013-04-30 11:05:42 PM  

o5iiawah: Yeah about that. Staple fruits and veggies are not that expensive.

Apples: $2/lb
Onions: $1/lb
Grapefruit: $1/ea
Mango: 2 for $3
2lb Bag of carrots: $2.99
Oranges: $1/ea
Limes: 3/$1

and I live in the northeast. my local grocer is one of the nicer ones in the area.


If you don't have a car and don't live close to a real grocery store, it's a real hassle to get it.  And the gas station that's nearby is only selling fruits individually at 89 or 99 cents.
 
2013-04-30 11:06:30 PM  
Wait, I thought the Glorious and Benevolent Scott Walker hath slain the Dastardly Unions and now Wisconsin has 150% employment and hosts the world headquarters of every member of the Fortune 1000?
 
2013-04-30 11:07:22 PM  

Summercat: I don't agree with the idea of slippery slope, but SNAP is already limited in what you can buy. But instead of saying "Up to x% allowed on junk-food category of items" and junk food is.. a slippery term - they're saying "X% must be spent on x,y,z."

It's not the way I'd do it, especially since XYZ include higher-priced items that don't last as long as other items (Unless frozen/canned veggies are allowed.).

Sure, people can can/freeze fresh fruits and veggies, but does anyone here really know how if they don't already? I certainly don't, and I consider myself relatively well rounded on things like that.


I haven't seen any indication that frozen and canned vegetables are excluded from the "good food" category. It appears to limit the amount that can be spent on soda and Doritos, not actual real food.
 
2013-04-30 11:07:22 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: vpb: Are they going to give them extra on their SNAP card to cover the expense of these luxuries?

That's what I'm wondering. Fruits & vegetables, especially fresh ones, tend to be expensive. And quite frankly not everyone has access to a large supermarket where the produce prices are generally cheaper.


Your second point is the one I'm worried about; other people have pointed out that smart shopping can lead to fruits and vegetables not being that expensive; canned and frozen are good enough for me on my non-government-funded budget now and I just have to forgo the fancy Martian tangelos and edamame-whatevers that I hope to enjoy after the lean years are over. I don't want to subsidize these for other people when I can't even afford them myself, but I get the point that it's easy to armchair advocate for everyone eating healthy when you can personally afford to.

But the access issue is huge. Taught in North St. Louis and East St. Louis, Illinois and the concept of a food desert is real. On one of my first days I drove for ten minutes in two separate directions just looking for something other than fried chicken and had to turn around and go back and eat in the cafeteria with the kids. And I had a car. And money. Started bringing lunch. Ain't nothing out there. Super easy for folks to sit in a comfy suburban apartment with a Whole Foods up the street and a Trader Joe's across from it and tell others how to eat, but no amount of whatever validity does underlie their point will magically poof up grocery stores in these areas. And yeah, just grocery stores. I'm not even talking about a Whole Foods. I'm talking about anything besides a convenience store selling tall boys and chips sandwiched in between a pawn shop and a hair studio.
 
2013-04-30 11:07:29 PM  

Godscrack: This doesn't make sense. Forcing the masses to eat right will only make them healthier. And smarter.

Republicans don't like thinking people. Who are they going to fill the jails with?


How many christians do you know that are in jail for rape and murder?  If you're going to act like an idiot, at least use your only counterpoints and just scream out INTOLERANT or RACIST.
 
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