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(Yahoo)   Bagram crash recorded on dashcam--oh, my. A big airplane like that shouldn't just stop in mid-air   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 537
    More: Scary, Bagram, Bagram Airfield, public-benefit corporation, evidence  
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33846 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 9:26 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 04:21:31 AM
So... what do Alex Jones and the Conspiratards have on this one?
 
2013-05-01 04:34:23 AM

CMcMahon: So... what do Alex Jones and the Conspiratards have on this one?


I don't listen to the show, but I just clicked over and skimmed the site.  Nothing about this, they're too busy predicting an upcoming economic depression, and claiming the Boston Bombers were both innocents being scapegoated as part of a government false flag operation, while at the same time claiming the older brother was radicalized while working as a secret CIA agent who had since gone rogue.
 
2013-05-01 04:37:53 AM
Christ, that was as bad as the B-52 crash at Fairchild AFB.
 
2013-05-01 04:42:18 AM

CMcMahon: So... what do Alex Jones and the Conspiratards have on this one?


Well, you see that grassy knoll on the right? The guy behind the fence is who we should be looking for.
 
2013-05-01 05:00:56 AM

Flint Ironstag: WhyteRaven74: remus: I worked another where the co-pilot was beheaded by a bird coming thru the canopy.

I heard of an incident in the 70s, not sure what plane or exact location, but someone was working on a plane in a hanger, when the ejection seat went off...

I was an instructor in the Air Training Corps here in the UK years ago. A bunch of cadets were on a week camp at a RAF airbase and were being shown round a hangar including a Tornado being serviced, with chances to sit in the seats etc. After they left a mechanic notices one of the pins from the ejector seat was missing....
He told the FS, the FS told the officer, the officer told the base commander etc. It went up to the top of the RAF and then back down the chain of command of the ATC, in about half an hour. Every cadet was confined to quarters, uniformed ATC staff were on the carpet, civilian staff were almost as confined to quarters as the cadets. When the guilty cadet confessed his parents got a call saying "Your son is no longer in the Air Cadets. You have to collect him now". The atmosphere lasted the rest of the week and affected the next few weeks groups as well.

They do not mess around with ejector seats.


In a former career I built components for ejector seats. There's enough explosives that it's never a "safe" thing to do,
 
2013-05-01 05:01:12 AM

lewismarktwo: If the armor was loose, couldn't it come forward as well?  Maybe that's why it went so nose down...


Who knows actually.  One thing to remember is consider the tail surfaces are well behind the center of gravity of the airplane.  As the plane begins to fall out of the sky, you have drag and lift from the tail surfaces acting with a big lever arm to push the nose down.

I say who knows because also as people have mentioned it's possible that they try to do a fast climb out to avoid surface to air missiles.  Lose of thrust or the pilot biffing it could result in a stall.

This is a crash that loots a bit similar.  Root cause was the control locks were not disengaged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by7fzs6paic
 
2013-05-01 05:09:03 AM
cdn2.hark.com

ZEE PLANE ZEE PLANE ZEE...
 
2013-05-01 05:40:56 AM
My guess is that the stall warning did not go off as it should.
 
2013-05-01 05:53:55 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: My guess is that the stall warning did not go off as it should.


Eh, if it was cargo shifting, the stall warning probably screamed bloody murder, and the pilot was thinking "I know, I KNOW"...fark-all he could do about it, besides get the nose down, and that was clearly insufficient.

The Southern Dandy: Peki: boywondered: More than likely, the pilots were pushing forward on the controls as hard as they could to get the nose down, but the elevator was not effective enough.

Question: Is turning effective? It would seem to me that if your nose is pointing damn near vertical, any direction would get the nose down.

No.  If the CG is too far back, it's doesn't matter which way you turn, the tail will always point down.


Plus, as a rule, you lose lift in a turn...too close to the ground for that.  If he'd been at altitude, it MIGHT have worked, shifting cargo back to the CG.
 
2013-05-01 05:55:40 AM

redsquid: Pfighting Polish: I_Am_Weasel: Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: I got crazy with my girlfriend one time while eating some ellipses. I was't being careful so it led to a pregnant pause.

This underscores why you must be careful.

Some people just don't understand the aste-risks.

You can't get a pregnant pause if you use the colon.


Or if she's on her period.
 
2013-05-01 06:08:34 AM

Charlie Freak: WizardofToast: One of my greatest fears is riding a plane that just drops out of the sky mid-flight. Now I'm going to hate every take off unless all the fat people are kept in the center seats.

/I know fat people can't bring down a plane
//But ya never know

Not true. Not likely, but not true. Ever been in a regional jet when they ask passengers to move around? That's why. Some planes would barely "notice." Others would. A lot.

Look up the 1977 University of Evansville Men's basketball team.


From wiki:

Two weeks after the crash, the only member of the basketball team who was not on the DC-3, was killed after being hit by a drunk driver, leaving all of the members of the 1977 Purple Aces Basketball team dead.

Now THAT is some Final Destination shiat right there.
 
2013-05-01 06:09:02 AM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: Most amazing thing is there is one muffled "fark" during that whole thing. I would have been washed away in a flood of terror diarrhea and hoarse from screaming newly invented vulgar phrases had that happened right in front of me


yeah I think I used my entire vocabulary of cuss words just watching the video up until he pulled off the road. Damn.
 
2013-05-01 06:13:50 AM

CMcMahon: So... what do Alex Jones and the Conspiratards have on this one?



Knocked down by fat Syrian's in storage. We will be attacking by next week.
 
2013-05-01 06:24:26 AM
I fly across the Atlantic about twice per year. A crash is really the one way I'd prefer not to go. But that said, those guys only had a few seconds (4?) of twisted gut and scream. I'd rather that than from 30,000 feet.
 
2013-05-01 06:29:13 AM

gibbon1: lewismarktwo: This is a crash that loots a bit similar.  Root cause was the control locks were not disengaged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by7fzs6paic


The witness reaction isn't a whole lot less matter of fact, either. "I cannot believe... it's all over."
 
2013-05-01 06:31:34 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: My guess is that the stall warning did not go off as it should.


I don't think they needed a warning to know something was wrong.
 
2013-05-01 06:35:41 AM

doofusss: Looked to me as though the pilot was attempting to turn,  back towards the runway


ZAZ: It looked like he almost had it under control when the ground got in the way. That's why you should build your airport at the edge of a cliff. Of course then you get complaints about landing.


It wasn't under control and he wasn't turning (intentionally.) That's what a stall/spin looks like. Once the cg shifted far aft, he was just along for the ride.
 
2013-05-01 06:36:56 AM
minutemanproject.com
LOADS SHIFT
FREE MARKET
LET US PRAY

 
2013-05-01 06:37:02 AM

SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

// have actually had a conversation, while eating lunch, that included the words "what's that?  I think it's a piece of tongue..."
// continued eating lunch...

what happened next?


You are supposed to be impressed with his CIS cavalier attitude. His work has hardened his soul to the horrors of his profession and he wants you to know that he can put on his sunglasses in a cool manner.

Piece of tongue? It looks like the whole situation left him speechless.


/YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAA
 
2013-05-01 06:38:51 AM

StretchCannon: 1) This was a microburst. It's obvious. You can see the thunderstorm that caused it in the shot. You can see the plane pitching in the column of air.
2) You can be damn sure that the weather guys told the pilot not to take off with the thunderstorm cell that close, but the pilot chose to ignore them.
3) Pilots will blame this on the load shifting because pilots don't like blaming pilot error on pilot error. They'll try to blame the loadmaster. A load shifting wouldn't cause the plane to suddenly tilt opposite the control surface orientation. I watched seasoned pilots recover from worse wind sheer than this for four years at Dover AFB in Delaware.


0/10.
 
2013-05-01 06:42:15 AM

thedumbone: There was no force able to drop that nose that became more pronounced at reduced speeds other than CG


Yes, there was.
 
2013-05-01 06:46:30 AM

thedumbone: Put me down as the (first?) to say - NOT a load shift.


Put me down as the eleventh to say that you will be proved completely and totally wrong in the upcoming investigation.
 
2013-05-01 07:00:01 AM

Charlie Freak: I hate hearing the engines. Their intensity matches the fight that was going on in the cockpit.


Not only that, it can take up to 3 seconds for a jet engine to get to full throttle after the power is pushed to the fire wall. Can you imagine how long that is waiting for that extra thrust...

I agree with the cargo shift theory, far too extreme a failure for pilot error, barring a pilot suicide that is.
 
2013-05-01 07:09:42 AM

Lsherm: Charlie Freak: Wow, that's got to be a cargo shift.

Yeah, cargo planes don't go vertical after liftoff on purpose.


I take it you've never flown out of Afghanistan. I have flown some shiat, I have been riding through even more shiat, that flight has to be a top five sphincter pucker of all time.
 
2013-05-01 07:12:00 AM
someone miss a decimal point?
"yea yea, those tanks weigh 2,000lbs each, load up 10 of them"
 
2013-05-01 07:13:12 AM

Charlie Freak: Wow, that's got to be a cargo shift.


This.

It seems pretty clear that someone didn't tie and secure at least one of the vehicles well enough.  When the weight shifted, the plane lurched upward and stalled.  At that point, they had no chance of recovery.
 
2013-05-01 07:15:39 AM

Satanic_Hamster: saladan0: For those interested, here is the preliminary reports from aviation-safety

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20130429-0">http:/ /aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20130429-0

It seems it was indeed a cargo shift that happened immediately after takeoff, and as those above me noticed, they didnt even get the gears up.

The question is if the loadmaster had the cargo improperly secured, or if it was a due to a malfunction of the tiedown equipment. Regardless the USAF is going to be reeling from this one for a while.

I've known a number of loadmasters.  They've all been heavily anal retentive sticklers to rules in every aspect of their lives.

If I had to bet I'd put my money on mechanical failure.


Except that the load master probably wasn't on the plane. There is a reason pilot's use checklists, their life is on the line, everyone else uses checklists cause the pilots life is on the line...
 
2013-05-01 07:18:18 AM

MorePeasPlease: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19800707&id=APhLAAAAI BA J&sjid=xO4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2404,2617907


The story below that is interesting... imagine if four people died from plague in a year in a state, with today's media?
 
2013-05-01 07:19:06 AM

HighZoolander: I had to turn it off after the expletive at the 1:15 mark - that just pushed the video past an intensity level that I can handle. What happened after that?


The all ready dead body parts went from well done to crispy. The ONLY good news is probably no one was conscious/alive after the ground came up.
 
2013-05-01 07:21:09 AM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: Most amazing thing is there is one muffled "fark" during that whole thing. I would have been washed away in a flood of terror diarrhea and hoarse from screaming newly invented vulgar phrases had that happened right in front of me


Got to be another pilot, or an Air Force trained ground crew. Keep the conversation sterile and factual. Me? I cuss like a sailor, sometimes on an open channel, got the FAA letter to prove it. :)
 
2013-05-01 07:25:19 AM

RoyBatty: What sort of evidence can be used to determine a weight shift?

Can you get shifting CG out of a black box, or can you only get, engines were operating normally, flaps were set to ..., etc.?


You can get it indirectly, as you suggested. Everything nominal and suddenly nose pitches up, full controls down, engines to full, plane still nose up and into a stall. Presuming it's not all black carbon, at this point, you also have the pilots primary and secondary shiat stains in his underwear. As well as cockpit voice, if they managed to figure out what was going on.
 
2013-05-01 07:27:35 AM

thedumbone: Build a paper airplane. Check that it flies normally. Tape a bunch of coins to the nose/tail and throw it towards the ceiling.


Seriously, what a f*cking stupid analogy.
 
2013-05-01 07:39:38 AM
Has the idea been floated around that, perhaps, just perhaps, a load shift didn't take place to the extreme? As in, not all of the cargo shifted entirely to the ass-end of the plane? This video makes it seem unrecoverable given the plane, the load, and the altitude (or lack thereof).

Anyway, at least one of you could use some lessons in physics. Knowing how to instruct people on how to fly planes doesn't necessarily mean you're capable of deconstructing an accident. Trust me, I've worked with cops, and I've questioned their knowledge of physics from time to time when it comes to accident reports.
 
2013-05-01 07:41:08 AM

Smallberries: Satanic_Hamster: saladan0: For those interested, here is the preliminary reports from aviation-safety

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20130429-0">http:/ /aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20130429-0

It seems it was indeed a cargo shift that happened immediately after takeoff, and as those above me noticed, they didnt even get the gears up.

The question is if the loadmaster had the cargo improperly secured, or if it was a due to a malfunction of the tiedown equipment. Regardless the USAF is going to be reeling from this one for a while.

I've known a number of loadmasters.  They've all been heavily anal retentive sticklers to rules in every aspect of their lives.

If I had to bet I'd put my money on mechanical failure.

Except that the load master probably wasn't on the plane. There is a reason pilot's use checklists, their life is on the line, everyone else uses checklists cause the pilots life is on the line...


Minimum crew for C-17 cargo ops is two pilots and a load master.
 
2013-05-01 07:41:23 AM

diaphoresis: people_are_chumps: I'm flying for the first time in 12 years next week so I'm not getting a kick....

I haven't flown in over 33 yrs.. TSA means I'll never fly again.

/Well, I had no reason to fly. TSA just cements the decision.


I've flown 33,000+ miles this month, including 7,750 just this past weekend, so I'm not sure whether I'm getting a kick or not, but I'm sure damn glad I'm not cargo, and not on some contractor's plane.  (Admittedly, my last 15,500 miles were on an airline that between 1991 and 2002 managed to destroy six widebodies, killing 702 people in the process... but they've gotten better in the decade since they started hiring people with experience as international airline pilots, instead of people with experience as Taiwanese fighter pilots.
 
2013-05-01 07:41:54 AM

Smallberries: Satanic_Hamster: saladan0: For those interested, here is the preliminary reports from aviation-safety

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20130429-0">http:/ /aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20130429-0

It seems it was indeed a cargo shift that happened immediately after takeoff, and as those above me noticed, they didnt even get the gears up.

The question is if the loadmaster had the cargo improperly secured, or if it was a due to a malfunction of the tiedown equipment. Regardless the USAF is going to be reeling from this one for a while.

I've known a number of loadmasters.  They've all been heavily anal retentive sticklers to rules in every aspect of their lives.

If I had to bet I'd put my money on mechanical failure.

Except that the load master probably wasn't on the plane. There is a reason pilot's use checklists, their life is on the line, everyone else uses checklists cause the pilots life is on the line...


Loadmasters travel with the plane on non-scheduled cargo flights. Other articles confirm the loadmaster as among the deceased crew.

Do you really want some random asshat on the ground in east jiboo loading up your airplane for you?
 
2013-05-01 07:42:53 AM

puffy999: thedumbone: Build a paper airplane. Check that it flies normally. Tape a bunch of coins to the nose/tail and throw it towards the ceiling.

Seriously, what a f*cking stupid analogy.


I wasn't sure which one of his comments was the most ignorant, but I think you found the winner.
 
2013-05-01 07:47:50 AM

Kittypie070: You jerkoffs trolling about this being a false flag, does it make you feel all manly and "bigger" now!?

People are DEAD and you witless freaks think it's amusing to shart your foul Alex Jones monstrousities on them.

Go choke on a bowl of shredded flags.


Sarcasm is lost on some, eh?
 
2013-05-01 07:56:38 AM
I wonder how much effect the steep climb the plane took on leaving the ground had on the eventual crash. IIRC all planes leaving Bagram make a maximum climb rate take off to avoid any potential ground fire outside the perimeter from insurgents. Throw that into a maximum payload situation, and something comes loose, and you get what's on the video; had they just been taking off normally I'm not sure they would have ended up in that kind of unrecoverable situation even had the payload shifted.
 
2013-05-01 07:58:24 AM

Bendal: I wonder how much effect the steep climb the plane took on leaving the ground had on the eventual crash. IIRC all planes leaving Bagram make a maximum climb rate take off to avoid any potential ground fire outside the perimeter from insurgents. Throw that into a maximum payload situation, and something comes loose, and you get what's on the video; had they just been taking off normally I'm not sure they would have ended up in that kind of unrecoverable situation even had the payload shifted.


Once the payload shifts that much, you're screwed. But's it's quite possible the payload wouldn't have shifted on a normal takeoff.
 
2013-05-01 08:01:46 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Linux


its interesting that it was on his mind from a thread about a plane crash.   i've heard that death can often bring on a boner.  i guess nature's last attempt at spreading life.  or maybe one last attempt at busting a nut.  probably the latter.
 
2013-05-01 08:03:00 AM

Charlie Freak: Wow, that's got to be a cargo shift.


that or the engines crapped out. what are the odds that 4 engines would crap out at once. probably cargo shift.
 
2013-05-01 08:04:01 AM
For those that are still unclear about how CG affects an airplane, you can watch Iron Maiden front man Bruce Dickinson explain it in this video.
 
2013-05-01 08:04:40 AM

Cats_Lie: Socialism fails again.



and crony capitalism, as we've seen from recent years, is shinning on!
 
2013-05-01 08:07:57 AM

Glockenspiel Hero: A young kid had been sitting in the cockpit of an A6 and was fiddling with the knobs and levers. The crew chief hadn't properly secured the ejection seat. Kid didn't survive. Last airshow there for a very long time



I bet he was really excited for a few seconds.
 
2013-05-01 08:17:11 AM

neilbradley: To anyone who is a pilot (or know about such things), why didn't he put the nose down and power up? If you can see you're about to be in a stall situation, that's fairly easy to determine in VERY short order.



I'm not a pilot (or an anal lawyer) but most likely the pilot put the plane on autopilot while he and one of the stewardesses went to steal some coffee from one of the passengers. In fact, having the two of them wandering around at the back of the fuselage would likely be enough to drop the tail, causing the stall.
 
2013-05-01 08:18:29 AM
ALL of those guys on this flight are from where I live, but one. They only showed stills of the video; there was a debriefing for the families on the local news last night that was brutal... One of the pilots' brothers was on, and that pilot had a kid on the way-- he and his wife hadn't even had their honeymoon yet. Those poor kids.

/I actually side with them not showing that video on the news up here
//Rare classy act, Detroit media
 
2013-05-01 08:19:41 AM
Thanks Subby, this will haunt my dreams for the rest of my life.
 
2013-05-01 08:20:12 AM

katerbug72: Crew
Jamie Brokaw, pilot, Monroe, MI
Brad Hasler, pilot, Trenton, MI
Jeremy Lipka, pilot, Brooklyn, MI
Rinku Summan, pilot, Canton, MI
Michael Sheets, loadmaster, Ypsilanti, MI
Gary Stockdale, mechanic, Romulus, MI
Timothy Garrett, mechanic, Louisville, KY

So sad for their families. RIP.


I blame Timothy.
 
2013-05-01 08:23:14 AM
Is Bagram crash a scandal yet?
 
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