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(Yahoo)   Bagram crash recorded on dashcam--oh, my. A big airplane like that shouldn't just stop in mid-air   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 537
    More: Scary, Bagram, Bagram Airfield, public-benefit corporation, evidence  
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33883 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 9:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 10:13:26 PM

diaphoresis: people_are_chumps: I'm flying for the first time in 12 years next week so I'm not getting a kick....

I haven't flown in over 33 yrs.. TSA means I'll never fly again.

/Well, I had no reason to fly. TSA just cements the decision.


Yes, TSA are idiots and very annoying (and the worst I've seen so far are the TSA at JFK Airport in NY) but it really isn't bad enough to stop someone from traveling. Actually I was surprised that the TSa at Logan Airport in Boston was pretty straightforward and how professional the agents were.
 
2013-04-30 10:13:42 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: I got crazy with my girlfriend one time while eating some ellipses. I was't being careful so it led to a pregnant pause.


Newbies, newbies! The fun really starts when you move up to diacriticals. More fun with foreigners, I say.
 
2013-04-30 10:13:43 PM

juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?


Not a pilot, but my guess is that the additional, sudden weight shift into the back rendered the elevators (small wings below the rudder) useless, causing the stall.


/stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night
 
2013-04-30 10:15:07 PM

fusillade762: jayhawk88: Seeing a plane do something like that when you're on the ground near it has got to be one of the most pants-crapping moments a person can have (aside from being on the plane I guess). Wichita has a couple of areas near Mid Continent and McConnell where landing planes can come in fairly low over roads, and anytime you're driving and feel that shadow pass it kind of gives you chills.

I have dreams of planes (and other large objects) falling out of the sky on a semi-regular basis.


I've had dreams of planes crashing (mostly stall manner) too...I wonder if theres some bs subliminal meaning for it.

/One dream actually looked exactly like this, especially the fighting to level out at the end
//I work in air cargo. Biggest fear is for things like this to happen.
 
2013-04-30 10:15:18 PM

Bigjohn3592: RoyBatty: What sort of evidence can be used to determine a weight shift?

Can you get shifting CG out of a black box, or can you only get, engines were operating normally, flaps were set to ..., etc.?


You can't directly get cg from the black box.  But you can see if all the other systems were normal.  If all the elevator systems were OK.  Fuel is often used to balance large airplanes.  Black box might tell you fuel levels in the fore and aft tanks.

 If everything else checks out you can use the pitch rate(and other flight dynamics) combined with elevator position, etc to determine what kind of weight shift would result in that motion.  If the back figured weight shift fits with the weight of a cargo parcel and the available free run it would have if turned loose, you have a good idea that the cargo shifted.


With a flat, low-speed landing like that, they might be able to look at the wreckage to see if any of the cargo looks out of place.  Perhaps look for broken straps or attachment points.
 
2013-04-30 10:15:34 PM

SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

// have actually had a conversation, while eating lunch, that included the words "what's that?  I think it's a piece of tongue..."
// continued eating lunch...

what happened next?


For some reason that reminded me of...

i23.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-30 10:15:48 PM

aedude01: jayhawk88: Seeing a plane do something like that when you're on the ground near it has got to be one of the most pants-crapping moments a person can have (aside from being on the plane I guess). Wichita has a couple of areas near Mid Continent and McConnell where landing planes can come in fairly low over roads, and anytime you're driving and feel that shadow pass it kind of gives you chills.

Yup.  Right by Boeing.  I've driven that road many a time.

For some crazy reason they keep building houses under the flight line.  One of these days they're going to learn the hard way. :/


The guy (older man, can't remember his name, former Beech salesman) put it best by saying you can't stop the airport, or a city, from growing. One of the smartest things they do now is "growth planning" by airports. One of the dumbest things they do is not clearing the approach lines for a mile.

Sure, you can't build anything taller than X near an airports nowadays (I've flown into some older fields where power lines and towers make things "interesting" to say the least) but people still build under the approaches near them. Then they complain about the noise. (Lady, the airport was there 50 years before your house was built. You didn't notice it?)
 
2013-04-30 10:16:35 PM

Shostie: JohnAnnArbor: I_Am_Weasel: SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

// have actually had a conversation, while eating lunch, that included the words "what's that?  I think it's a piece of tongue..."
// continued eating lunch...

what happened next?

We dug it out and sent it to the lab.  What else do you do with some tongue?  We don't normally get the parts, so it was a little exciting.

no, what happened after you continued eating lunch, what with the ellipsis and all

You had an ellipsis for lunch?

It's the thing, lately.  I had a couple quote marks and a tilde, myself.

Sometimes I like to sit down for a nice movie with a bowl full of exclamation points.


That's got to be hard on your colon...
 
2013-04-30 10:17:10 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?

Think about the center of gravity of a plane loaded with a bunch of heavy objects- it's like a seesaw.  If the objects shift aft suddenly, the plane's nose will come up.  If there's enough weight back there, the plane's control surfaces don't have enough authority to point the nose back down.  Plane climbs too fast, loses airspeed and stalls.  Stall recovery requires you to get the nose down, but you can't  because of the too-far aft CG, and you get exactly what the video shows.


And if it wasn't the last aft cargo, it probably wasn't the last aft to go aft.
'
 
2013-04-30 10:18:02 PM

theorellior: Acharne: There was much more swearing and some footage of an entire scout troup crying. You've have melted.

You didn't mention the midget gangbang, I notice.


That's because I didn't notice! Wow man. Thanks, I'd have never caught that if I didn't watch the back seats of the other cars so closely.
 
2013-04-30 10:18:20 PM

ZAZ: It looked like he almost had it under control when the ground got in the way. That's why you should build your airport at the edge of a cliff. Of course then you get complaints about landing.


If the load was loose then it would probably shift back to the front making the plane do a nose dive, I would imagine.
 
2013-04-30 10:19:11 PM
Here is another unsettling bit, That bird went down on the edge of an old russian minefield at the end of the runway
 
2013-04-30 10:19:14 PM

inglixthemad: aedude01: jayhawk88: Seeing a plane do something like that when you're on the ground near it has got to be one of the most pants-crapping moments a person can have (aside from being on the plane I guess). Wichita has a couple of areas near Mid Continent and McConnell where landing planes can come in fairly low over roads, and anytime you're driving and feel that shadow pass it kind of gives you chills.

Yup.  Right by Boeing.  I've driven that road many a time.

For some crazy reason they keep building houses under the flight line.  One of these days they're going to learn the hard way. :/

The guy (older man, can't remember his name, former Beech salesman) put it best by saying you can't stop the airport, or a city, from growing. One of the smartest things they do now is "growth planning" by airports. One of the dumbest things they do is not clearing the approach lines for a mile.

Sure, you can't build anything taller than X near an airports nowadays (I've flown into some older fields where power lines and towers make things "interesting" to say the least) but people still build under the approaches near them. Then they complain about the noise. (Lady, the airport was there 50 years before your house was built. You didn't notice it?)


My thoughts exactly (and my father a former Air Force navigator has made the same comment).  At DCA they built a public park around it.  Not a bad idea really, as most of the time it's only a few joggers and bikers.  It's easier to move them out of the way during a crash than a 3BR McMansion.
 
2013-04-30 10:20:16 PM
Notice how calm and quiet the guy was? I'm calling a false flag. There was something on that plane Obama didn't want going to the UAE. This guy just HAPPENED to be there recording this as calm as you like? This video wasn't supposed to get released. This guy is probably now in GTMO.

/amidoingitright?
 
2013-04-30 10:20:39 PM

inglixthemad: aedude01: jayhawk88: Seeing a plane do something like that when you're on the ground near it has got to be one of the most pants-crapping moments a person can have (aside from being on the plane I guess). Wichita has a couple of areas near Mid Continent and McConnell where landing planes can come in fairly low over roads, and anytime you're driving and feel that shadow pass it kind of gives you chills.

Yup.  Right by Boeing.  I've driven that road many a time.

For some crazy reason they keep building houses under the flight line.  One of these days they're going to learn the hard way. :/

The guy (older man, can't remember his name, former Beech salesman) put it best by saying you can't stop the airport, or a city, from growing. One of the smartest things they do now is "growth planning" by airports. One of the dumbest things they do is not clearing the approach lines for a mile.

Sure, you can't build anything taller than X near an airports nowadays (I've flown into some older fields where power lines and towers make things "interesting" to say the least) but people still build under the approaches near them. Then they complain about the noise. (Lady, the airport was there 50 years before your house was built. You didn't notice it?)


What happens when neighborhoods spring up under flight paths.
 
2013-04-30 10:20:40 PM

jaylectricity: skinink: That's always been my biggest fear, to be on a plane that just stalls and drops from the sky lite a bag of bricks.

What's starting to bother me is that I wouldn't mind going out like that.

I might change my mind as I get closer to the ground.


I would imagine the phrase "on second thought..." would be mixed in with a few last minute expletives.
 
2013-04-30 10:21:20 PM

Nuclear Monk: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

an unmanned blimp carrying a payload of fresh wild flowers?


Aaah.  A peace drone.
 
2013-04-30 10:21:31 PM

juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?


It's kinda like this: funny.ph
 
2013-04-30 10:21:34 PM
juvandy

When the cargo comes loose during takeoff, it shifts toward the back.  This causes the aircraft to pitch up more than the pilot commands (think of like a teeter totter), and at some point the wing stalls.The center of gravity of the airplane moves to the aft as well.  If the cg goes far enough back, it will cause the plane to become unstable and uncontrollable.  More than likely, the pilots were pushing forward on the controls as hard as they could to get the nose down, but the elevator was not effective enough.

Here is another video of cargo shifting after take off.  It's deck video of a C-2 Greyhound getting catapulted from the carrier.  One of the snaps broke, and the cargo got loose.  The story is that the first crew who what supposed to take it said no and got a good a** chewing.  So the Captain found another loadmaster and crew, who were willing to take it and ended up putting it in the drink.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDmMwI9cik
 
2013-04-30 10:22:19 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: Most amazing thing is there is one muffled "fark" during that whole thing. I would have been washed away in a flood of terror diarrhea and hoarse from screaming newly invented vulgar phrases had that happened right in front of me


I likewise would have been using military-grade expletives in the chance that the plane could be lifted by profanity alone.

/My guess is they loaded the plane thinking in pounds, but loaded kilograms instead.
 
2013-04-30 10:22:33 PM

flightmonkey88: Here is another unsettling bit, That bird went down on the edge of an old russian minefield at the end of the runway


Fark.

On another morbid note, what's everyone think?  Did they die on impact/explosion or was it a burn to death scenario?  Few things bother my psyche more when flying than the prospect of being in a plane crash, surviving, only to then burn to death.
 
2013-04-30 10:23:36 PM

Warthog: juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?

Get a dinner plate.  Balance it on the tip of your finger.  Then put a dinner roll on the center of the plate.  You can still balance it, because the center of gravity is still at the center of the plate.  Now move the roll to the edge of the plate.  You can't balance it at the center point, because the center of gravity has moved so far towards the edge of the plate.

In very general terms, in an airplane, you want the center of gravity to be at a point that basically keeps the plane balanced like the plate with the roll at the middle, except with the wings in balance.  If the cargo shifts to the tail, the tail falls down, and no amount of control surface movement on the wings will bring the nose down and tail back up.  Eventually the wing loses lift, the plane stalls, and gravity takes over.  That's EXACTLY what you see in the video.


Someone told me that way back in Vietnam a B-52 did a barrel roll when a loaded fuel tank broke and shifted to the outside of the wing. No idea if it's true or not. Never found confirmation. Possibly just an urban legend.
 
2013-04-30 10:24:10 PM

skinink: Yes, TSA are idiots and very annoying (and the worst I've seen so far are the TSA at JFK Airport in NY) but it really isn't bad enough to stop someone from traveling. Actually I was surprised that the TSa at Logan Airport in Boston was pretty straightforward and how professional the agents were


We managed to get to Europe out of LAX in 2010 without having to go through the X-ray machines (would have ended the trip as I flat out refuse). The worst was actually coming back; all I could think was "this is what the Iron Curtain must have looked like." TSA wasn't bad really; I had a worse experience trying to get to Canada with a full leg cast (I got taken into one of those rooms they tell you about).

Bigjohn3592: You can't directly get cg from the black box.  But you can see if all the other systems were normal.  If all the elevator systems were OK.  Fuel is often used to balance large airplanes.  Black box might tell you fuel levels in the fore and aft tanks.

. .

Ty again to you and others for the info. I don't love Fark for the articles, but for all the cool shiat you get in the threads.
 
2013-04-30 10:24:32 PM
That is sad, i feel sorry for the crew.

Imagine being on that bus... I would probably have beat the shiat out of the driver for not stopping sooner
 
2013-04-30 10:24:36 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: http://news.google.com/newspaper s?nid=1314&dat=19800707&id=APhLAAAAIBA J&sjid=xO4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2404,2617907


Heard about this at FRAC six years later, when I was aout to get my wings. A cuple years later I watched my buddy's S-3 invert and crash off the Enterprise. 3 dead and one who might as well be. Ejected inverted and it looked like the plane fell on them as well. Shiatty day.
 
2013-04-30 10:25:57 PM

labman: Those armored vehicles are heavy.

It's just sad that the family of those people is going to see that video.


Not really, it shows that they went quick and didn't suffer.
 
2013-04-30 10:27:02 PM
Just goes to show how fragile and weak our technology is.

Something moved. Seven people dead.
 
2013-04-30 10:27:30 PM
boom
 
2013-04-30 10:27:41 PM

juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?


Normally, a plane is "sitting" on its wings, with the center of gravity pretty much on top of the wings.  Something came loose inside as the plane was climbing and all the stuff in the plane slid/rolled/tumbled/crashed towards the back, making the center of gravity move aft, causing the tail of the plane to dip and the nose to rise.  The angle of wings became to high and they lost their lift (this is called a stall) and the plane fell down like a rock.
 
2013-04-30 10:31:17 PM

boywondered: More than likely, the pilots were pushing forward on the controls as hard as they could to get the nose down, but the elevator was not effective enough.


Question: Is turning effective? It would seem to me that if your nose is pointing damn near vertical, any direction would get the nose down.

/pilot in Bagram didn't have the time, obviously
 
2013-04-30 10:32:24 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Just goes to show how fragile and weak our technology is.

Something moved. Seven people dead.


Aye. We're decades behind where we should be on nylon binding equipment.

Blew all our synthetic fiber research money on that Mars rover contraption that'll never amount to anything. :(
 
2013-04-30 10:32:34 PM

jayhawk88: Seeing a plane do something like that when you're on the ground near it has got to be one of the most pants-crapping moments a person can have (aside from being on the plane I guess). Wichita has a couple of areas near Mid Continent and McConnell where landing planes can come in fairly low over roads, and anytime you're driving and feel that shadow pass it kind of gives you chills.


Dad was stationed out there early 'Nam era. He loved telling the story of the one access road right off the end of the runway where a guy was tooling along not paying a BIT of attention with the stereo blaring in his cadillac convertible. I THINK he said it was a B52 came in a LOT low at JUST the right time only a few feet above the car. guy literally dove into the passenger seat and the car ran off the road. He  and some buddies were behind him and WERE paying attention so they slowed down to watch. Said it was one of the funniest things he had ever seen at the time.

The guy wasnt hurt, but his car had some issues.
 
2013-04-30 10:34:11 PM

inglixthemad: aedude01: jayhawk88:


Princess Juliana International Airport:

4.bp.blogspot.com
q8allinone.com


api.ning.com

farm7.staticflickr.com
 
2013-04-30 10:34:34 PM

jayhawk88: Seeing a plane do something like that when you're on the ground near it has got to be one of the most pants-crapping moments a person can have (aside from being on the plane I guess). Wichita has a couple of areas near Mid Continent and McConnell where landing planes can come in fairly low over roads, and anytime you're driving and feel that shadow pass it kind of gives you chills.


Whiteman AFB is only about 10 miles south of I-70. If you're very lucky you'll get to see the B-2's doing training runs. Those bastards are scary to see come flying over, especially since you don't hear them until they're right on top of you.
 
2013-04-30 10:34:40 PM

juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?


farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-04-30 10:35:41 PM
Do a barrel roll!
 
2013-04-30 10:36:24 PM

people_are_chumps: I'm flying for the first time in 12 years next week so I'm not getting a kick....


go rent 'fearless' 'hero' 'alive' 'flight' and 'flight 93'

no way you can crash after that.
 
2013-04-30 10:36:25 PM

aedude01: flightmonkey88: Here is another unsettling bit, That bird went down on the edge of an old russian minefield at the end of the runway

Fark.

On another morbid note, what's everyone think?  Did they die on impact/explosion or was it a burn to death scenario?  Few things bother my psyche more when flying than the prospect of being in a plane crash, surviving, only to then burn to death.


Between the impact itself, the shockwave from the explosion, the loose cargo, the heat, smoke, and lack of air, it was an all-you-can eat buffet of instant death.
 
2013-04-30 10:38:00 PM

juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?


Where an aircraft would balance if put on a pin sturdy enough to do so is it's center of gravity (CG). The CG has to be within certain limits for a safe flight, and looser limits for prolonged flight (unlike the accident here). There are a handful of physics reasons for this, but suffice it to say a CG too far forward and the aircraft does not have enough control authority to raise the nose. Vice-versa for a CG well aft of limits.

The farther something gets from wherever it is suspended (a fulcrum) it is called an arm, and the arm x it's weight is the object's moment. Experiment: Try holding an egg in your hand. Then hold it with a short spoon horizontal to the ground. Then hold it with a long spoon, etc. An aircraft with a long deck and heavy objects as cargo has the potential to generate some serious pitching moments.

Asto how loose cargo can effect this: On takeoff, the aircraft is rapidly accelerating. Objects inside the plane want to stay in the same place in space, but anything restraining or attaching them to the airplane make them go along with it, like people in seats. When the restraints holding said objects in place break, the objects tend to try to stay where they are in space - i.e. the plane moves forward, the cargo does not - it moves backward relative to the rest of the aircraft. Add to this the vertical component of rotation and climb and it makes it worse. Also, once one thing breaks free, it often takes everything behind it with it, compounding the issue.

There may, as will likely be the case with this accident, not be enough control authority to overcome the out-of-balance situation this creates.
 
2013-04-30 10:40:29 PM

Z1P2: labman: Those armored vehicles are heavy.

It's just sad that the family of those people is going to see that video.

Not really, it shows that they went quick and didn't suffer.


Some of the crew's family have seen the video...AVherald has a comments section on this video and some of the relatives have already left responses
 
2013-04-30 10:41:22 PM
Peki: Question: Is turning effective? It would seem to me that if your nose is pointing damn near vertical, any direction would get the nose down.

Turning wouldn't be effective because at that steep of a pitch their airspeed is bleeding off pretty quick and the ailerons/spoilers are going to become less effective because they don't has as much airflow.  Also, being that slow would bring the stall on quicker because you lose lift on the wing that is on top of the turn.

At the point they were at, there would have been no way to recover.  In a plane that big, going to an large bank angle (for 747 probably anything over 30 degrees) and letting the nose fall, you are going to need a few thousand feet of altitude to get the airspeed up for control surfaces to be effective again.  And if you have loose cargo, there is a good chance that once you get nose down it can/will slide forward and either crush the flight station or shift the cg so far forward that the controls become too heavy and the aircraft won't respond.
 
2013-04-30 10:41:41 PM

SpikeStrip: people_are_chumps: I'm flying for the first time in 12 years next week so I'm not getting a kick....

go rent 'fearless' 'hero' 'alive' 'flight' and 'flight 93'

no way you can crash after that.


Also the first FINAL DESTINATION. http://youtu.be/DD_MAz96L70

theMagni: aedude01: flightmonkey88: Here is another unsettling bit, That bird went down on the edge of an old russian minefield at the end of the runway

Fark.

On another morbid note, what's everyone think?  Did they die on impact/explosion or was it a burn to death scenario?  Few things bother my psyche more when flying than the prospect of being in a plane crash, surviving, only to then burn to death.

Between the impact itself, the shockwave from the explosion, the loose cargo, the heat, smoke, and lack of air, it was an all-you-can eat buffet of instant death.


As horrible as that all sounds, that actually makes me feel better.  Hopefully the poor guys in the plane went out that quickly.
 
2013-04-30 10:42:02 PM

LesserEvil: remus: I worked another where the co-pilot was beheaded by a bird coming thru the canopy.

The bird should have been thawed before it went into the canopy.

/Sorry, had to say it.


Old joke is old (but still funny :)
 
2013-04-30 10:42:28 PM
... but people still build under the approaches near them. Then they complain about the noise. (Lady, the airport was there 50 years before your house was built. You didn't notice it?)

What happens when neighborhoods spring up under flight paths.


That happened here in Indy. RIGHT next to a busy GA airport called Eagle Creek they built some houses RIGHT NEXT to the airport. the neighborhood actually shares part of the driveway with the airport. (you turn off the road into the airport driveway (PAST THE AIRPORT SIGN!), and about a third of the way in you turn right into the neighborhood. Its DIRECTLY under the pattern.

They actually had the nerve to start petitioning the FAA and the city to have the airport shut down even though the airport had been there for many decades before, and there was absolutely NO way a buyer would NOT know they were near an airport. You pass a big 6x10' sign welcoming you to an airport, you SEE the airport as you turn into your neighborhood, etc.

At the time of the petition I was a fresh GA pilot that was using that airport and hearing about it made me wanna go all BATF and make the neighborhood look like the Branch Dividian complex. OOh  look, you no longer have a house. Isnt that unfortunate.  NOW GO TAKE YOUR INSURANCE MONEY AND BUILD SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

We actually were forced to adjust our patterns a bit wider, werent allowed to turn out below 800' during takeoff so we would stay as far away from them as possible, etc.

Self important,
 
2013-04-30 10:42:37 PM
Gross overload.
 
2013-04-30 10:43:54 PM

boywondered: Peki: Question: Is turning effective? It would seem to me that if your nose is pointing damn near vertical, any direction would get the nose down.

Turning wouldn't be effective because at that steep of a pitch their airspeed is bleeding off pretty quick and the ailerons/spoilers are going to become less effective because they don't has as much airflow.  Also, being that slow would bring the stall on quicker because you lose lift on the wing that is on top of the turn....


This. By the time you can tell from the video that there's anything wrong it was probably already too late for the pilot to do anything about it.
 
2013-04-30 10:46:08 PM
I was training to be a USAF C-130 Crew Chief when a broken leg sent me back to civilian life so I'm really not getting a kick out of this.
 
2013-04-30 10:46:30 PM

I_Am_Weasel: SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

// have actually had a conversation, while eating lunch, that included the words "what's that?  I think it's a piece of tongue..."
// continued eating lunch...

what happened next?

We dug it out and sent it to the lab.  What else do you do with some tongue?  We don't normally get the parts, so it was a little exciting.

no, what happened after you continued eating lunch, what with the ellipsis and all

You had an ellipsis for lunch?



Maybe it just rolled off the tongue???
 
2013-04-30 10:46:37 PM
who woulda thought FARK was full of professional pilots! simulator nerds!!

ftfm
 
2013-04-30 10:47:53 PM

aedude01: theMagni: aedude01: flightmonkey88: Here is another unsettling bit, That bird went down on the edge of an old russian minefield at the end of the runway

Fark.

On another morbid note, what's everyone think? Did they die on impact/explosion or was it a burn to death scenario? Few things bother my psyche more when flying than the prospect of being in a plane crash, surviving, only to then burn to death.

Between the impact itself, the shockwave from the explosion, the loose cargo, the heat, smoke, and lack of air, it was an all-you-can eat buffet of instant death.

As horrible as that all sounds, that actually makes me feel better. Hopefully the poor guys in the plane went out that quickly.


That's assuming the Chupacabra  didn't get them first on the way down.  Likely why the pilot lost control.
 
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