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(Yahoo)   Bagram crash recorded on dashcam--oh, my. A big airplane like that shouldn't just stop in mid-air   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 537
    More: Scary, Bagram, Bagram Airfield, public-benefit corporation, evidence  
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33864 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 9:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 09:51:21 PM
I had to turn it off after the expletive at the 1:15 mark - that just pushed the video past an intensity level that I can handle. What happened after that?
 
2013-04-30 09:51:29 PM
Most amazing thing is there is one muffled "fark" during that whole thing. I would have been washed away in a flood of terror diarrhea and hoarse from screaming newly invented vulgar phrases had that happened right in front of me
 
2013-04-30 09:51:30 PM

WhyteRaven74: remus: I worked another where the co-pilot was beheaded by a bird coming thru the canopy.

I heard of an incident in the 70s, not sure what plane or exact location, but someone was working on a plane in a hanger, when the ejection seat went off...


Many years back I went to an airshow at Willow Grove NAS.  My folks were sitting under a wing of a plane (shade) while I was standing in line to see a Sea King when I heard a muffled "boom" and saw a parachute unfurling in the air.  Went right over me and landed on the plane my folks were under.

A young kid had been sitting in the cockpit of an A6 and was fiddling with the knobs and levers.  The crew chief hadn't properly secured the ejection seat.  Kid didn't survive.  Last airshow there for a very long time.
 
2013-04-30 09:53:01 PM

remus: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

I worked one where the pilot ejected and only got a few scratches on his arm from the sage brush while he was walking out to the nearest road.

I worked another where the co-pilot was beheaded by a bird coming thru the canopy.

The worst, hands down, was the A-10 Lt Col who ejected in a full bank horizontal to the ground; his seat worked perfectly right until it hit the Oak tree.  It was worse than the decapitated guy because the lab reeked for weeks.

// have actually had a conversation, while eating lunch, that included the words "what's that?  I think it's a piece of tongue..."
// continued eating lunch...


I was USAF from 1982 to 1992. At Myrtle Beach we had a guy eject as the plane was hitting the ground. The rail holding the seat in place came loose and he ejected forward into the instrument cluster and the forward, fixed canopy. We had nav panel switches 6 inches deep with what looked like head cheese.

I was Com Nav and the on scene investigator always used our shop because we had stations with big magnifying / flourescent light things we use for soldering.
 
2013-04-30 09:53:14 PM
What sort of evidence can be used to determine a weight shift?

Can you get shifting CG out of a black box, or can you only get, engines were operating normally, flaps were set to ..., etc.?
 
2013-04-30 09:54:13 PM

HighZoolander: I had to turn it off after the expletive at the 1:15 mark - that just pushed the video past an intensity level that I can handle. What happened after that?


There was much more swearing and some footage of an entire scout troup crying. You've have melted.
 
2013-04-30 09:54:40 PM

remus: I worked another where the co-pilot was beheaded by a bird coming thru the canopy.


The bird should have been thawed before it went into the canopy.

/Sorry, had to say it.
 
2013-04-30 09:54:57 PM

skinink: That's always been my biggest fear, to be on a plane that just stalls and drops from the sky lite a bag of bricks.

BTW, Denzel Washington's movie "Flight" is worth seeing for two reasons: the special effects of him landing that plane, and seeing Nadine Velazquez naked. Damn that woman is hot!


I'm not sure "lite" or even "light" is the appropriate word.
 
2013-04-30 09:55:16 PM
Musta been a hellova 10 second ride.  Hope the rest was over quick.

/nothing in this universe kills as fast or as thorough as physics.
 
2013-04-30 09:55:31 PM

Acharne: There was much more swearing and some footage of an entire scout troup crying. You've have melted.


You didn't mention the midget gangbang, I notice.
 
2013-04-30 09:55:36 PM

SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

// have actually had a conversation, while eating lunch, that included the words "what's that?  I think it's a piece of tongue..."
// continued eating lunch...

what happened next?


Dessert, I'm guessing.
 
2013-04-30 09:56:08 PM

skinink: BTW, Denzel Washington's movie "Flight" is worth seeing for two reasons: the special effects of him landing that plane, and seeing Nadine Velazquez naked. Damn that woman is hot!


Oh God, read this interview where she discussing putting tape on her lady parts and bending over for Denzel.

/bunk
//was already in it
///might go for round 2
 
2013-04-30 09:56:25 PM

remus: SpikeStrip: remus: SpikeStrip: remus: this isn't going to be pretty.

opposed to what?

// have actually had a conversation, while eating lunch, that included the words "what's that?  I think it's a piece of tongue..."
// continued eating lunch...

what happened next?

We dug it out and sent it to the lab.  What else do you do with some tongue?  We don't normally get the parts, so it was a little exciting.


Eat it?
 
2013-04-30 09:56:50 PM
Went looking and found a newspaper article about the accident- it was an S3 ,not an A6, but just as depressing.  I'd forgotten about the staircase collapse that day, just to add to the error list.

http://news.google.com/newspaper s?nid=1314&dat=19800707&id=APhLAAAAIBA J&sjid=xO4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2404,2617907
 
2013-04-30 09:56:53 PM

LadySusan: I'm not sure "lite" or even "light" is the appropriate word.


Autocorrect has enriched our lives in so many ways.
 
2013-04-30 09:57:01 PM

RoyBatty: What sort of evidence can be used to determine a weight shift?

Can you get shifting CG out of a black box, or can you only get, engines were operating normally, flaps were set to ..., etc.?


You can, sometimes. There is no CG sensor, but you can extract it from vehicle dynamics models using thrust, attitude, etc.
 
2013-04-30 09:58:04 PM

HighZoolander: I had to turn it off after the expletive at the 1:15 mark - that just pushed the video past an intensity level that I can handle. What happened after that?


Not much.  He pulls over for a bit, calms his dog, then moves to drive around the wreckage.  When the video cuts off, it appears he made it.
 
2013-04-30 09:58:13 PM
Crashing Bagram Style.
 
2013-04-30 09:58:55 PM
I'm flying for the first time in 12 years next week so I'm not getting a kick....
 
2013-04-30 09:59:02 PM

RoyBatty: What sort of evidence can be used to determine a weight shift?

Can you get shifting CG out of a black box, or can you only get, engines were operating normally, flaps were set to ..., etc.?


In this one, if you believe some of the press, they made a mayday call and said they were in a stall due to a weight shift.  So there's that.  It was a 747-400F, so at most about 20 years old.  I think that means digital flight recorders which should yield a lot of data.
 
2013-04-30 09:59:05 PM
Amazing video framing of a total nightmare come to life.
 
2013-04-30 09:59:17 PM

jayhawk88: Seeing a plane do something like that when you're on the ground near it has got to be one of the most pants-crapping moments a person can have (aside from being on the plane I guess). Wichita has a couple of areas near Mid Continent and McConnell where landing planes can come in fairly low over roads, and anytime you're driving and feel that shadow pass it kind of gives you chills.


Yup.  Right by Boeing.  I've driven that road many a time.

For some crazy reason they keep building houses under the flight line.  One of these days they're going to learn the hard way. :/
 
2013-04-30 09:59:49 PM

Matthew Keene: In the pre-video days, like 1865. They just had to say it with words when there was a bad accident.

"The Indianapolis Journal reports the following horrible accident, by which a Mrs. KRONAN lost her life: She was killed in crossing the railroad track on Illinois Street. At the time Mrs. KRONAN was attempting to cross, the Terre Haute train was coming in, while the switch engine of the I. & C. road was taking up seven or eight freight cars to the Terre Haute Depot. The woman attempted to get out of the way of the Terre Haute train, and in doing so was unfortunate enough to get in the way of the freight train. She was thrown upon the track, and two or three cars passed directly over her head, mangling it in a most fearful manner; not a feature of her face was left, and identification was impossible except by her dress. Her brains were scattered about, and even her tongue dislocated from her head, and left by the side of the rail. "


a lot of military incident/injury reports read that way. my dad was notorious for writing fairly humorous ones with something other than a sterile narrative.
 
2013-04-30 09:59:51 PM

Ambivalence: JohnAnnArbor:

But it was a contractor plane, not USAF.  Would Air Force guys be loading and checking a contractor plane?

If it was on a USAF base, probably.


It's a joint ISAF base. Could have been anyone's (as in ISAF forces) cargo.
 
2013-04-30 10:00:24 PM

theorellior: LadySusan: I'm not sure "lite" or even "light" is the appropriate word.

Autocorrect has enriched our lives in so many ways.




/oblig
 
2013-04-30 10:00:51 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: WhyteRaven74: remus: I worked another where the co-pilot was beheaded by a bird coming thru the canopy.

I heard of an incident in the 70s, not sure what plane or exact location, but someone was working on a plane in a hanger, when the ejection seat went off...

Many years back I went to an airshow at Willow Grove NAS.  My folks were sitting under a wing of a plane (shade) while I was standing in line to see a Sea King when I heard a muffled "boom" and saw a parachute unfurling in the air.  Went right over me and landed on the plane my folks were under.

A young kid had been sitting in the cockpit of an A6 and was fiddling with the knobs and levers.  The crew chief hadn't properly secured the ejection seat.  Kid didn't survive.  Last airshow there for a very long time.


Oh, .....

wow.
 
2013-04-30 10:01:21 PM
Could have been a load shift or breaking free. Also the plane may have simply been overloaded and/or loaded incorrectly.

/I skip on flying National Airlines myself for hops in the future.
 
2013-04-30 10:01:42 PM
I read there were "multiple" MRAPs on the plane. Just one of those shifting towards the tail and...well you see the video.
 
2013-04-30 10:03:08 PM
Bad.
I watched a plane like that go down.
22 souls lost.
We were still finding pieces years later.
Finger bones, etc.
 
2013-04-30 10:04:01 PM
for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?
 
2013-04-30 10:04:24 PM

skinink: That's always been my biggest fear, to be on a plane that just stalls and drops from the sky lite a bag of bricks.


What's starting to bother me is that I wouldn't mind going out like that.

I might change my mind as I get closer to the ground.
 
2013-04-30 10:05:09 PM

Pfighting Polish: I_Am_Weasel: Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: I got crazy with my girlfriend one time while eating some ellipses. I was't being careful so it led to a pregnant pause.

This underscores why you must be careful.

Some people just don't understand the aste-risks.


You can't get a pregnant pause if you use the colon.
 
2013-04-30 10:05:19 PM

people_are_chumps: I'm flying for the first time in 12 years next week so I'm not getting a kick....


I haven't flown in over 33 yrs.. TSA means I'll never fly again.

/Well, I had no reason to fly. TSA just cements the decision.
 
2013-04-30 10:05:45 PM

vudukungfu: 22 souls bodies lost.


Don't worry, the souls will be waiting for you in heaven.
 
2013-04-30 10:05:46 PM

Peki: Warthog: But then they landed.  In the middle of a herd of angry west Texas steer.  They ended up climbing what passed for a tree in that part of Texas -- a scrawny thing full of thorns -- and ended up sustaining greater injuries from the tree while evading the bovines than they did in the ejection.  Everyone in the unit thought this was hilariously funny.

I've always wondered about these stories. The line I was told was that ejection seats generally compress your spine so badly in the attempt to get you TFO of the way that walking afterwards is pretty much impossible.



Again to hear my brother tell it, depends on the seat and the conditions under which you eject.  The new seats are 'smart' and use different degrees and direction of thrust depending on a host of factors.  At least in some of his F-16 units they tend to refer to the jets as disposable, and talk about ejecting as returning the jet to the tax payers.  They said the two kinds of F-16 pilots are those who'd ejected and those who would, given that it is a single engine jet with a stubby little wing.  Knock on wood, his F-16 units have only lost one jet I can recall in the time he's been flying, but he came very close to having to bail out one dark night over the Sea of Japan.  Fortunately he nursed it home.
 
2013-04-30 10:06:52 PM
Why did the dog sound so upset? That actually freaked me out more than anything.
 
2013-04-30 10:07:16 PM
Damn.
 
2013-04-30 10:07:19 PM

redsquid: Pfighting Polish: I_Am_Weasel: Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: I got crazy with my girlfriend one time while eating some ellipses. I was't being careful so it led to a pregnant pause.

This underscores why you must be careful.

Some people just don't understand the aste-risks.

You can't get a pregnant pause if you use the colon.


Not enough lube left so we only got a semicolon
 
2013-04-30 10:07:42 PM

RexTalionis: Damn, that is a really bad stall.


Departure stalls are nasty. I mean seriously, never want one to happen to you as a pilot, nasty. A big chunk of stall training covers slow flight and stalls. Power on (full power, 20' - 40' of flaps) simulate departure stalls, except for one thing: you have altitude. That's why they drill power on and power off stalls into pilots. One happens on takeoff, the other at landing. Takeoff and landing: the most likely times for an incident to occur.

The pilot in the video? I can't say what happened, but wow. Power on, right wing stall, wing drop without it looking like the pilot attempted to nose over. Just wow.

Don't take the above as gospel though. The problem is perspective. The pilot may may have tried to push the nose down, but the video's perspective might not show that.
 
2013-04-30 10:08:18 PM

Meisaims: Why did the dog sound so upset? That actually freaked me out more than anything.


Dogs don't like thunder, so I imagine a huge explosion and fire might be upsetting
 
2013-04-30 10:09:09 PM

Dr Jack Badofsky: I_Am_Weasel: Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: I got crazy with my girlfriend one time while eating some ellipses. I was't being careful so it led to a pregnant pause.

This underscores why you must be careful.

Did you have to tell your parens?


She was a virgin right? You broke her hyphen.
 
2013-04-30 10:09:12 PM
Makes me glad we do not have flying cars
 
2013-04-30 10:10:13 PM
O_O

can't sleep. airplane dropping on top of me.
 
2013-04-30 10:10:31 PM

skinink: Nadine Velazquez naked


[motherofgod.jpg]
 
2013-04-30 10:10:32 PM
To answer everyone's questions of it if were a USAF loadmaster, or a civilian.  It is a civilian loadmaster, as USAF loadmasters do not mess with the civilian aircraft on the bases out there.  They have contractors and civilian employees to take care of all the civilian air traffic out of the bases, and of course the military deals with military

/USAF
//OEF 2011
 
2013-04-30 10:10:46 PM

juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?


Think about the center of gravity of a plane loaded with a bunch of heavy objects- it's like a seesaw.  If the objects shift aft suddenly, the plane's nose will come up.  If there's enough weight back there, the plane's control surfaces don't have enough authority to point the nose back down.  Plane climbs too fast, loses airspeed and stalls.  Stall recovery requires you to get the nose down, but you can't  because of the too-far aft CG, and you get exactly what the video shows.
 
2013-04-30 10:11:17 PM

Texas Gabe: Dr Jack Badofsky: I_Am_Weasel: Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: I got crazy with my girlfriend one time while eating some ellipses. I was't being careful so it led to a pregnant pause.

This underscores why you must be careful.

Did you have to tell your parens?

She was a virgin right? You broke her hyphen.


Maybe you'll get lucky and it's just a delayed period.
 
2013-04-30 10:11:31 PM

juvandy: for the uninitiated, can someone explain how a cargo shift causes that?


Get a dinner plate.  Balance it on the tip of your finger.  Then put a dinner roll on the center of the plate.  You can still balance it, because the center of gravity is still at the center of the plate.  Now move the roll to the edge of the plate.  You can't balance it at the center point, because the center of gravity has moved so far towards the edge of the plate.

In very general terms, in an airplane, you want the center of gravity to be at a point that basically keeps the plane balanced like the plate with the roll at the middle, except with the wings in balance.  If the cargo shifts to the tail, the tail falls down, and no amount of control surface movement on the wings will bring the nose down and tail back up.  Eventually the wing loses lift, the plane stalls, and gravity takes over.  That's EXACTLY what you see in the video.
 
2013-04-30 10:12:13 PM

RoyBatty: What sort of evidence can be used to determine a weight shift?

Can you get shifting CG out of a black box, or can you only get, engines were operating normally, flaps were set to ..., etc.?



You can't directly get cg from the black box.  But you can see if all the other systems were normal.  If all the elevator systems were OK.  Fuel is often used to balance large airplanes.  Black box might tell you fuel levels in the fore and aft tanks.

 If everything else checks out you can use the pitch rate(and other flight dynamics) combined with elevator position, etc to determine what kind of weight shift would result in that motion.  If the back figured weight shift fits with the weight of a cargo parcel and the available free run it would have if turned loose, you have a good idea that the cargo shifted.
 
2013-04-30 10:13:16 PM

inglixthemad: RexTalionis: Damn, that is a really bad stall.

Departure stalls are nasty. I mean seriously, never want one to happen to you as a pilot, nasty. A big chunk of stall training covers slow flight and stalls. Power on (full power, 20' - 40' of flaps) simulate departure stalls, except for one thing: you have altitude. That's why they drill power on and power off stalls into pilots. One happens on takeoff, the other at landing. Takeoff and landing: the most likely times for an incident to occur.

The pilot in the video? I can't say what happened, but wow. Power on, right wing stall, wing drop without it looking like the pilot attempted to nose over. Just wow.

Don't take the above as gospel though. The problem is perspective. The pilot may may have tried to push the nose down, but the video's perspective might not show that.


northdallasgazette.com

I cannot help myself.
 
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