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(The Atlantic)   So, just what WOULD happen if we never ran out of oil?   (theatlantic.com) divider line 113
    More: Interesting, energy density, World energy consumption, heating oil, landing pad, fossil fuels, energy reserves, silt, U.S. Department of Energy  
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6328 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Apr 2013 at 3:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 01:46:58 PM  
It would suck

Nuclear power and solar power will never live up to their true potential.
 
2013-04-30 01:50:47 PM  

cman: It would suck

Nuclear power and solar power will never live up to their true potential.


Let's hope you're at least half correct.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-30 01:55:29 PM  
We'd just kill each other over water.
 
2013-04-30 01:58:31 PM  

CaptSacto: We'd just kill each other over water.


Yup. This, pretty much.
 
2013-04-30 02:09:29 PM  
For one, it's quite likely that all coral reefs would die.  Acidity levels in the ocean have risen 30% since the beginning of the industrial age, levels not seen since the asteroid that killed off the dinosaurs.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-30 02:14:48 PM  
Because the costliest stuff is left in the ground, there will always be petroleum to mine later. "When will the world's supply of oil be exhausted?" asked the MIT economist Morris Adelman, perhaps the most important exponent of this view. "The best one-word answer: never." Effectively, energy supplies are infinite.

I think someone doesn't know what infinite means.  The fact that we will never use up the last little bit doesn't mean that there is an infinite amount.

That's like saying that a loaf of bread is infinite because you can just cut it in half and eat half and repeat forever.  You will never run out because you always save half of the last piece, right?
 
2013-04-30 02:30:42 PM  
Remember after hurricane Sandy when people were bringing guns to gas stations?

And that was just after a couple of days with no gas in one geographically very small part of the country.
 
2013-04-30 02:34:38 PM  

vpb: Because the costliest stuff is left in the ground, there will always be petroleum to mine later. "When will the world's supply of oil be exhausted?" asked the MIT economist Morris Adelman, perhaps the most important exponent of this view. "The best one-word answer: never." Effectively, energy supplies are infinite.

I think someone doesn't know what infinite means.  The fact that we will never use up the last little bit doesn't mean that there is an infinite amount.

That's like saying that a loaf of bread is infinite because you can just cut it in half and eat half and repeat forever.  You will never run out because you always save half of the last piece, right?


Maybe God just keeps putting more oil in the ground.. you know, when he's there planting the dinosaur bones.
 
2013-04-30 02:34:39 PM  
and i misread the headline.
 
2013-04-30 02:43:08 PM  

SlothB77: geographically very small part of the country


it may be a small part of the country, but it's also one of most densely populated parts of the country too.
 
2013-04-30 02:55:29 PM  
does anyone have a cliffs notes version of this article?
 
2013-04-30 02:55:38 PM  

CaptSacto: We'd just kill each other over water.


This. This is also shaping up to happen in California.
 
2013-04-30 02:59:47 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: CaptSacto: We'd just kill each other over water.

This. This is also shaping up to happen in California.


Especially if they try to build those tunnels without public input. I think Jerry's pushing that one too hard.
 
2013-04-30 03:01:39 PM  

CaptSacto: Contrabulous Flabtraption: CaptSacto: We'd just kill each other over water.

This. This is also shaping up to happen in California.

Especially if they try to build those tunnels without public input. I think Jerry's pushing that one too hard.


Those are going to decimate the delta.
 
2013-04-30 03:08:14 PM  

SlothB77: does anyone have a cliffs notes version of this article?


This.  I don't know what would happen if we never ran out of oil because the first 35 paragraphs didn't even begin to start talking about that.
 
2013-04-30 03:12:17 PM  
I wouldn't have to repair the leak in my car?
 
2013-04-30 03:12:38 PM  

CaptSacto: We'd just kill each other over water.


That's already happened in various parts of the world.  I don't know if that's necessarily a consequence of global warming though -- if anything, there could be more water in the atmosphere as the polar ice caps melt, and more precipitation.
 
2013-04-30 03:16:04 PM  

cman: It would suck

Nuclear power and solar power will never live up to their true potential.


Considering we get about 20X the amount of our electrical power from nuclear sources than petroleum...I'm gonna say you're full of shiat.
 
2013-04-30 03:16:49 PM  
And not unexpectedly, tfa's comment section has a little abiogenic oil nuttery...
 
2013-04-30 03:18:38 PM  
I'd wonder what happened to the conservation of mass.
 
2013-04-30 03:19:48 PM  
Would you eat the moon if it were made of spare ribs
 
2013-04-30 03:24:00 PM  

SlothB77: does anyone have a cliffs notes version of this article?


As oil/natural gas etc, becomes more scarce we keep finding new technologies to dig deeper and things like fraking, oil sands processing, etc. There is a fairly unlimited supply of stuff we can dig out of the ground and burn in some manor.
 
2013-04-30 03:26:01 PM  
Didn't Nat Geo or Discover do a series of shows about life with oil?
 
2013-04-30 03:26:48 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Would you eat the moon if it were made of spare ribs


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-04-30 03:28:09 PM  

MindStalker: SlothB77: does anyone have a cliffs notes version of this article?

As oil/natural gas etc, becomes more scarce we keep finding new technologies to dig deeper and things like fraking, oil sands processing, etc. There is a fairly unlimited supply of stuff we can dig out of the ground and burn in some manor.


But what if we run out of houses?
 
2013-04-30 03:31:18 PM  
The "we" part is the problem. The oil is not "ours", it is someone else's. Whose cultures and countries we have farked repeatedly. And then we get mad when it appears that they hate us. Imagine that.

/Capitalism, racism, theism, nationalism, and environmentalism all in one big nightmare bundle.
 
2013-04-30 03:32:24 PM  

Nurglitch: MindStalker: SlothB77: does anyone have a cliffs notes version of this article?

As oil/natural gas etc, becomes more scarce we keep finding new technologies to dig deeper and things like fraking, oil sands processing, etc. There is a fairly unlimited supply of stuff we can dig out of the ground and burn in some manor.

But what if we run out of houses?


Then we burn down the grass huts.
 
2013-04-30 03:35:08 PM  
Running out isn't the problem I'm worried about.

We're adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere in such quantities that we will all be dead long before the oil runs out.
 
2013-04-30 03:39:46 PM  

Nurglitch: MindStalker: SlothB77: does anyone have a cliffs notes version of this article?

As oil/natural gas etc, becomes more scarce we keep finding new technologies to dig deeper and things like fraking, oil sands processing, etc. There is a fairly unlimited supply of stuff we can dig out of the ground and burn in some manor.

But what if we run out of houses?


we start burning dung
 
2013-04-30 03:48:15 PM  
Energy from oil is the least of our worries.  We already have other methods, we can refine those we have.  It won't be as cheap, but electricity wasn't cheap in 1910 and we got by all the same.  And we have much more scientific and institution knowledge than we did then.

the real worry is the other thing we produce from oil

www.eldr.com

That's a tiny fraction too.  Pretty much all plastics are made from oil, and while there has been some research into bio-organic substitutes, we're father along in energy research than having a substitute for oil based plastic.
 
2013-04-30 03:48:45 PM  
Step 1: Create a cartel among producers
Step 2: Corner the market
Step 3: Create a myth of scarcity
Step 4: Huge profits

The problem with this article is it still calls oil a "fossil fuel." That myth is getting ready to fall, but there will be a lot of egg on the face of western academia when it does. The Russians think oil is made by the Earth like coal, gets pushed up from deep down like volcanoes and gets trapped in fields which don't actually deplete, but slowly refill over time. This is why so many "tapped out" oil fields from the 70s now produce oil again. The Russians are drilling for oil where western scientists say it shouldn't be and they are finding it. The discrediting of peak oil theory is just the first domino.
 
2013-04-30 03:56:57 PM  

TyrantII: Energy from oil is the least of our worries.  We already have other methods, we can refine those we have.  It won't be as cheap, but electricity wasn't cheap in 1910 and we got by all the same.  And we have much more scientific and institution knowledge than we did then.

the real worry is the other thing we produce from oil

[www.eldr.com image 400x400]

That's a tiny fraction too.  Pretty much all plastics are made from oil, and while there has been some research into bio-organic substitutes, we're father along in energy research than having a substitute for oil based plastic.


Dear God! I don't think I want to live in a world without awnings!
 
2013-04-30 03:58:51 PM  

SlothB77: Remember after hurricane Sandy when people were bringing guns to gas stations?


Is that not normal?
 
2013-04-30 04:04:48 PM  

SlothB77: does anyone have a cliffs notes version of this article?


I didn't make it all the way through, but I think what it was saying is that it's possible that relatively inexhaustible sources of petroleum might be available, and if they are we are royally screwed because we are too stupid to make good decisions unless we are forced to.
 
2013-04-30 04:07:23 PM  

Triumph: Step 1: Create a cartel among producers
Step 2: Corner the market
Step 3: Create a myth of scarcity
Step 4: Huge profits

The problem with this article is it still calls oil a "fossil fuel." That myth is getting ready to fall, but there will be a lot of egg on the face of western academia when it does. The Russians think oil is made by the Earth like coal, gets pushed up from deep down like volcanoes and gets trapped in fields which don't actually deplete, but slowly refill over time. This is why so many "tapped out" oil fields from the 70s now produce oil again. The Russians are drilling for oil where western scientists say it shouldn't be and they are finding it. The discrediting of peak oil theory is just the first domino.


You went full retard, man.  You never go full retard.
 
2013-04-30 04:11:37 PM  
Well, let's see, considering the population is set to level after all the geezers die off in the industrialized countries and the world finishes it's jump to at least second world status(Africa will make the most dramatic leap) all because of the miraculous thing where market economies lead to material abundance which leads to decadence which produces fewer children.  And go figure, there are plenty of hydrocarbons available so the world can slowly dis-invent nuclear fission. Offshore hydro can begin to pay dividends, solar looks to actually become profitable WITHOUT government subsidy within twenty years or so(large scale wind is a complete waste of tax-money), PERHAPS a way can be found to make algae-biodiesel/jet fuel that's also free from government subsidy, and then there's the holy grail of them all....... lightning capture.

No, seriously.

That is how Tesla was going to power his "free" energy transmitters, by connecting the ionosphere to the ground and sending a near infinite amount of continuously generated static electricity straight to the area surrounding the towers.  The transmition process he used was horribly inefficient but why would it matter when the Earth itself was covering the costs of generation and most of the cost of delivery?  The things he never figured out it seems were how to actually predictably call down lightning(HAARP?) and contain it. A man one hundred years ahead of the rest of the world.  A man limited by the technology of his day.

Do this and there's no more wars over hydrocarbons.  In fact the energy costs for literally everything drop to almost zero, well below what is needed for the world to advance beyond the current energy scarcity paradigm.  No need to add to the background radiation or create more superfund sites that actually can't be cleaned up.  We're just all going to have to get over our fear of lightning.

If we can survive the next twenty years without our politicians and Old World oligarchs getting everybody killed in a vain attempt to choke humanity's potential we will be the last generations to ever know what material poverty was.  Within the next hundred years solar powered water desalination using graphene filters, nano-assembly, life extension, permaculture, actual advances in batteries, and human augmentation will all fundamentally change every facet of existence.  In fact there's a chance with life extension that if you're reading this in 2013 you might never die of old age.
 
2013-04-30 04:12:42 PM  

SlothB77: and i misread the headline.


I think a lot of people here did.  I did at first, also

ever/never
 
2013-04-30 04:14:49 PM  
Arkanaut:
CaptSacto: We'd just kill each other over water.

That's already happened in various parts of the world.  I don't know if that's necessarily a consequence of global warming though -- if anything, there could be more water in the atmosphere as the polar ice caps melt, and more precipitation.


We'll kill each other over arable land that isn't seasonally inundated by seawater or violent flash floods?
 
2013-04-30 04:17:59 PM  

Jarhead_h: and then there's the holy grail of them all....... lightning capture.

No, seriously.


Nope.  We use a couple of orders of magnitude more energy than is released by lightning worldwide over any given period of time.  Even if we could capture every lightning strike completely, and transmit it with no losses, it would not be nearly enough energy.
 
2013-04-30 04:29:36 PM  

vpb: Because the costliest stuff is left in the ground, there will always be petroleum to mine later. "When will the world's supply of oil be exhausted?" asked the MIT economist Morris Adelman, perhaps the most important exponent of this view. "The best one-word answer: never." Effectively, energy supplies are infinite.

I think someone doesn't know what infinite means.  The fact that we will never use up the last little bit doesn't mean that there is an infinite amount.

That's like saying that a loaf of bread is infinite because you can just cut it in half and eat half and repeat forever.  You will never run out because you always save half of the last piece, right?


Because some MIT professor obviously knows less than some random guy on Fark.
 
2013-04-30 04:32:32 PM  
interesting article subby. did not know about methane hydrates.
 
2013-04-30 04:33:00 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Because some MIT professor obviously knows less than some random guy on Fark.


That's pretty hilarious coming from you.
 
2013-04-30 04:33:13 PM  

TyrantII: Energy from oil is the least of our worries... Pretty much all plastics are made from oil.


We use orders of magnitude more fossil fuels to run automobiles than we use to manufacture polymeric products.  If we stop setting the shiat on fire to run inefficient combustion engines we'll have plenty to cover our manufacturing needs for the foreseeable future.

Most synth-petrol projects are designed with non-fuel applications in mind as well, so on that scale it's a de-facto renewable resource.

//Oil, of the type that provides plastics precursors, actually isn't used as fuel outside of cars.  Power generation is coal or natural gas.
 
2013-04-30 04:33:27 PM  

ModernLuddite: The "we" part is the problem. The oil is not "ours", it is someone else's. Whose cultures and countries we have farked repeatedly. And then we get mad when it appears that they hate us. Imagine that.

/Capitalism, racism, theism, nationalism, and environmentalism all in one big nightmare bundle.


So then more drilling at home. Got it.
 
2013-04-30 04:34:06 PM  

vpb: Because the costliest stuff is left in the ground, there will always be petroleum to mine later. "When will the world's supply of oil be exhausted?" asked the MIT economist Morris Adelman, perhaps the most important exponent of this view. "The best one-word answer: never." Effectively, energy supplies are infinite.

I think someone doesn't know what infinite means.  The fact that we will never use up the last little bit doesn't mean that there is an infinite amount.

That's like saying that a loaf of bread is infinite because you can just cut it in half and eat half and repeat forever.  You will never run out because you always save half of the last piece, right?


"Effectively..."
 
2013-04-30 04:35:37 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: vpb: Because the costliest stuff is left in the ground, there will always be petroleum to mine later. "When will the world's supply of oil be exhausted?" asked the MIT economist Morris Adelman, perhaps the most important exponent of this view. "The best one-word answer: never." Effectively, energy supplies are infinite.

I think someone doesn't know what infinite means.  The fact that we will never use up the last little bit doesn't mean that there is an infinite amount.

That's like saying that a loaf of bread is infinite because you can just cut it in half and eat half and repeat forever.  You will never run out because you always save half of the last piece, right?

Maybe God just keeps putting more oil in the ground.. you know, when he's there planting the dinosaur bones.


Or maybe there are also other causes.
 
2013-04-30 04:37:45 PM  

phaseolus: And not unexpectedly, tfa's comment section has a little abiogenic oil nuttery...


Notice you didn't respond in the other thread to my peakoil.com link on abiogenic oil.
 
2013-04-30 04:40:19 PM  

TyrantII: the real worry is the other thing we produce from oil


www.8233design.com

The emergency brake on your car...your husband's pacemaker...
 
2013-04-30 04:44:19 PM  

Triumph: Step 1: Create a cartel among producers
Step 2: Corner the market
Step 3: Create a myth of scarcity
Step 4: Huge profits

The problem with this article is it still calls oil a "fossil fuel." That myth is getting ready to fall, but there will be a lot of egg on the face of western academia when it does. The Russians think oil is made by the Earth like coal, gets pushed up from deep down like volcanoes and gets trapped in fields which don't actually deplete, but slowly refill over time. This is why so many "tapped out" oil fields from the 70s now produce oil again. The Russians are drilling for oil where western scientists say it shouldn't be and they are finding it. The discrediting of peak oil theory is just the first domino.


[sarcasm]

Abiogenic oil? Really? When only insane stupid ignorant nutbars like Thomas Gold believe in it? Seriously, we should totally believe the oil companies that have billions of dollars of infrastructure that was designed for the assumption of dino-based oil.

You're playing with fire here, son. Someone's gonna come along and call you names.

[/sarcasm]
 
2013-04-30 04:44:34 PM  

Hollie Maea: Jarhead_h: and then there's the holy grail of them all....... lightning capture.

No, seriously.

Nope.  We use a couple of orders of magnitude more energy than is released by lightning worldwide over any given period of time.  Even if we could capture every lightning strike completely, and transmit it with no losses, it would not be nearly enough energy.


You didn't read far enough down did ya?  Not random lightning strikes, but targeted calling down of the static electricity in the ionosphere that otherwise never connects to the ground( infact an actual discharge would be far more destructive than a nuclear blast if not effectively channeled, which is one of the worst fears about HAARP).  Not from random storms, but the extreme upper atmosphere.
 
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