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(11 Alive)   Man starts petition to remove the memorial image of Confederate leaders carved into Stone Mountain, criticizing the image for honoring slave owners. Presumably his next target should be Mount Rushmore, which also honors two slave owners   (11alive.com) divider line 260
    More: Unlikely, Stone Mountain, Mount Rushmore, Sons of Confederate Veterans  
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4295 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 12:04 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 11:10:46 AM  
Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.
 
2013-04-30 11:13:47 AM  
According to linkin, he is a former actor and a current "specialist" at the Apple store.
 
2013-04-30 11:40:37 AM  
On it!

dejareviewer.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-30 11:49:55 AM  
Strictly speaking, Lee and Jackson were far kinder and more progressive slave owners than Washington or Jefferson ever dreamed of being. Both set up schools to teach their slaves to read and write in contravention of the laws of the day, and Jackson even had slaves request that he buy them, because of how comparatively liberal of an owner he was.

I'm not defending slave owning in any way, note; I'm just reinforcing  subby'svery sapient point.
 
2013-04-30 12:07:32 PM  
oh shiat!
America has a history and not all of it is nice?
My gods
shiat...down...everything
 
2013-04-30 12:08:00 PM  

whistleridge: Strictly speaking, Lee and Jackson were far kinder and more progressive slave owners than Washington or Jefferson ever dreamed of being. Both set up schools to teach their slaves to read and write in contravention of the laws of the day, and Jackson even had slaves request that he buy them, because of how comparatively liberal of an owner he was.

I'm not defending slave owning in any way, note; I'm just reinforcing  subby'svery sapient point.


Yet, they're still traitors who ordered the deaths of hundreds of thousands.
 
2013-04-30 12:08:42 PM  
Goddamn it, man, find a hobby already. Buy an XBox, plant a garden out back, get really, really, way into baseball....SOMETHING!
 
2013-04-30 12:09:02 PM  
It is a stupid argument, but it's also wrong simply because it's an artefact of history. Getting rid of them would be like blowing up the Bamiyan Buddhas. Yes, ok they were far older, far grander, but the point remains the same. Group of people has issue with depiction of something they disapprove, so they get rid of it. It's wrong. Even if there was a giant carving dedicated to the worlds worst dictators, it should still remain as a piece of history and an artefact of its age.
 
2013-04-30 12:09:39 PM  
Lived in the Atlanta area for awhile, and I always loved the laser light show at Stone Mountain.

Anyway, yes they were slave owners, but as a nation we have absolutely nothing to gain by whitewashing history. What's important isn't removing the image, but helping people understand the full story.
 
2013-04-30 12:10:11 PM  
Stone Mountain is the redneck Mt. Rushmore.  It is a fun place to hike, and the few times I visited it, I got extra lolz from watching the people taking pictures of the "mountain" itself.
 
2013-04-30 12:10:15 PM  

Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.


They were not traitors to their country, the Confederacy, which the memorial honors.
 
2013-04-30 12:10:21 PM  

Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.


If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.
 
2013-04-30 12:10:25 PM  
That idiot can join the same pack of jerks that blew up ancient shrines. Rednecks need shrines too.
 
2013-04-30 12:11:26 PM  
I can get behind this. Let's replace the losers with pictures of Grant and Sherman.
 
2013-04-30 12:11:29 PM  
Cultural and social progress demands that sanitize history rather than learn from it.
 
2013-04-30 12:11:39 PM  
You can't whitewash history.
 
2013-04-30 12:11:43 PM  

Slaxl: It is a stupid argument, but it's also wrong simply because it's an artefact of history. Getting rid of them would be like blowing up the Bamiyan Buddhas. Yes, ok they were far older, far grander, but the point remains the same. Group of people has issue with depiction of something they disapprove, so they get rid of it. It's wrong. Even if there was a giant carving dedicated to the worlds worst dictators, it should still remain as a piece of history and an artefact of its age.


weknowmemes.com
 
2013-04-30 12:12:11 PM  

trotsky: I can get behind this. Let's replace the losers with pictures of Grant and Sherman.


Probably appropriate since there are likely more northerners than southerners in Atlanta these days, anyway.
 
2013-04-30 12:12:30 PM  

Nabb1: Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.

If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.


But it didn't and thus they were not. And the Confederacy failed.
 
2013-04-30 12:12:52 PM  
Mount Rushmore is the very definition of what is not American, if you ask me: idolization of political leaders on a super-mega-larger-than-human scale.  Show me where Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia carved enormous stone faces of their dictators.  Admittedly, Hitler wanted to rebuild all of Berlin as a giant, hideous monument to himself, but there weren't any plans to carve his face into the mountains.  Stalin certainly had plenty of giant statues of himself, but they came down pretty easily once he was gone.

Mount Rushmore is a silly eyesore and a mistake. Ozymandias all over again.
 
2013-04-30 12:12:52 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: whistleridge: Strictly speaking, Lee and Jackson were far kinder and more progressive slave owners than Washington or Jefferson ever dreamed of being. Both set up schools to teach their slaves to read and write in contravention of the laws of the day, and Jackson even had slaves request that he buy them, because of how comparatively liberal of an owner he was.

I'm not defending slave owning in any way, note; I'm just reinforcing  subby'svery sapient point.

Yet, they're still traitors who ordered the deaths of hundreds of thousands.


Exactly. History is filled with people who were incredibly complicated and performed great deeds, both good and bad. If we plaster over every instance of history that wasn't pleasant to modern life there would be very little history left and we would be no better than North Korea.

The Civil War happened and still affects modern life. While glorifying Lee and the rest of the Confederacy is usually inappropriate anywhere outside of a military history context, all involved held a major influence on how our nation is today and erasing them from history is short sighted.
 
2013-04-30 12:13:19 PM  

Supes: Lived in the Atlanta area for awhile, and I always loved the laser light show at Stone Mountain.

Anyway, yes they were slave owners, but as a nation we have absolutely nothing to gain by whitewashing history. What's important isn't removing the image, but helping people understand the full story.


Nice choice of words.
 
2013-04-30 12:14:10 PM  
First proposed by Helen Plane, a charter member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, the carving was begun in 1923, but not completely finished until 1972 thanks to several starts and stops.
In 1916 the mountain itself was also the birthplace of the modern Ku Klux Klan, who held cross burnings there into the 1980's.


Yeah. Fark 'em. Shave it smooth.

And while your at it, have the work done by white men, forced to work under threat of death or torture, while their illegal wives and their children are sold and taken away from them. Make sure some of those white men are kidnapped and brought south.

And be sure and have a huge, mean black overseer there, too. One that can rape their illegal wives in front of them when he isn't beating the men.

And take away all their possessions, their ability to read and write.

That will surely commemorate the Confederacy and what it stood for better than some stone sculpture.
 
2013-04-30 12:14:18 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.

If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.

But it didn't and thus they were not. And the Confederacy failed.


It did, yes, but it existed, and is a painful part of our nation's history that should not be forgotten.  And, honestly, even if they were traitors, is it really worth getting all worked up over a war that ended almost 150 years ago?
 
2013-04-30 12:14:45 PM  

Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.


Tell me then, what do the enormous carvings of slaveholding traitors represent, then?
 
2013-04-30 12:15:03 PM  

GoldSpider: Cultural and social progress demands that we sanitize history rather than learn from it.


FTFM.

Imagine what Eqypt or any other former slave-owning cultural landscape would look like today if progressives were in charge.
 
2013-04-30 12:15:25 PM  

special20: That idiot can join the same pack of jerks that blew up ancient shrines. Rednecks need shrines too.


Trailer Henge isn't enough?
 
2013-04-30 12:16:19 PM  

Nabb1: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.

If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.

But it didn't and thus they were not. And the Confederacy failed.

It did, yes, but it existed, and is a painful part of our nation's history that should not be forgotten.  And, honestly, even if they were traitors, is it really worth getting all worked up over a war that ended almost 150 years ago?


Let's just stop pretending they were heroes. That's all I care about.
 
2013-04-30 12:16:29 PM  
If you have a lot of time on your hands, trying to change the future is a nobler task than trying to change the past.
 
2013-04-30 12:16:33 PM  
But then we will have nothing to come to life during the Elvis American Trilogy part of the Laser Show.

/They did finally get rid of the Proud to be an American song but to avoid backlash they replaced it the the National Anthem, all verses of the National Anthem.
 
2013-04-30 12:16:48 PM  

Kibbler: Mount Rushmore is the very definition of what is not American, if you ask me: idolization of political leaders on a super-mega-larger-than-human scale.  Show me where Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia carved enormous stone faces of their dictators.  Admittedly, Hitler wanted to rebuild all of Berlin as a giant, hideous monument to himself, but there weren't any plans to carve his face into the mountains.  Stalin certainly had plenty of giant statues of himself, but they came down pretty easily once he was gone.

Mount Rushmore is a silly eyesore and a mistake. Ozymandias all over again.


Mount Rushmore is Bullshiat
 
2013-04-30 12:17:01 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.

If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.

But it didn't and thus they were not. And the Confederacy failed.

It did, yes, but it existed, and is a painful part of our nation's history that should not be forgotten.  And, honestly, even if they were traitors, is it really worth getting all worked up over a war that ended almost 150 years ago?

Let's just stop pretending they were heroes. That's all I care about.


Why do you care?  Did you lose a leg fighting at Gettysburg or something?
 
2013-04-30 12:18:07 PM  

Nabb1: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.

If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.

But it didn't and thus they were not. And the Confederacy failed.

It did, yes, but it existed, and is a painful part of our nation's history that should not be forgotten.  And, honestly, even if they were traitors, is it really worth getting all worked up over a war that ended almost 150 years ago?

Let's just stop pretending they were heroes. That's all I care about.

Why do you care?  Did you lose a leg fighting at Gettysburg or something?


Did you lose family at Dachau? You must have no opinion on that then.
 
2013-04-30 12:19:51 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: First proposed by Helen Plane, a charter member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, the carving was begun in 1923, but not completely finished until 1972 thanks to several starts and stops.
In 1916 the mountain itself was also the birthplace of the modern Ku Klux Klan, who held cross burnings there into the 1980's.

Yeah. Fark 'em. Shave it smooth.

And while your at it, have the work done by white men, forced to work under threat of death or torture, while their illegal wives and their children are sold and taken away from them. Make sure some of those white men are kidnapped and brought south.

And be sure and have a huge, mean black overseer there, too. One that can rape their illegal wives in front of them when he isn't beating the men.

And take away all their possessions, their ability to read and write.

That will surely commemorate the Confederacy and what it stood for better than some stone sculpture.


I can understand the anger, but wouldn't it be better to retain it with proper context about the atrocities committees provided throughout the park? It's like Auschwitz, by preserving it we can try to ensure future generations understand what went wrong and prevent it.

As of the last time I visited the park, that sort of context was few and far between. But the Confederacy was part of our national history, as was slavery, mass murder of native populations, and plenty of other terrible things. Better to remember them so we as a country can learn from those mistakes.
 
2013-04-30 12:19:56 PM  
He'd get his wish if  coal was discovered under Stone Mountain.
 
2013-04-30 12:19:57 PM  

Tom_Slick: But then we will have nothing to come to life during the Elvis American Trilogy part of the Laser Show.

/They did finally get rid of the Proud to be an American song but to avoid backlash they replaced it the the National Anthem, all verses of the National Anthem.


If Gen Lee breaking his sword over his knee as Elvis hits "glory halleluiah" does not cause you to wipe a tear from your eye with a fried chicken greased finger, you are not living.
 
2013-04-30 12:20:19 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: First proposed by Helen Plane, a charter member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, the carving was begun in 1923, but not completely finished until 1972 thanks to several starts and stops.
In 1916 the mountain itself was also the birthplace of the modern Ku Klux Klan, who held cross burnings there into the 1980's.

Yeah. Fark 'em. Shave it smooth.

And while your at it, have the work done by white men, forced to work under threat of death or torture, while their illegal wives and their children are sold and taken away from them. Make sure some of those white men are kidnapped and brought south.

And be sure and have a huge, mean black overseer there, too. One that can rape their illegal wives in front of them when he isn't beating the men.

And take away all their possessions, their ability to read and write.

That will surely commemorate the Confederacy and what it stood for better than some stone sculpture.


Umm...just gonna point out that if you cut off the white slaves' hands and remove their eyes, they can't see their wives being raped, and they sure as hell can't shave a mountain smooth.
 
2013-04-30 12:20:32 PM  

Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.


It depends on what country you are talking about.
 
2013-04-30 12:20:58 PM  
Even worse is the Crazy Horse carving; what Indian would want a mountain carved out in their image? That's a stupid white man thing.
 
2013-04-30 12:21:47 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.

If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.

But it didn't and thus they were not. And the Confederacy failed.

It did, yes, but it existed, and is a painful part of our nation's history that should not be forgotten.  And, honestly, even if they were traitors, is it really worth getting all worked up over a war that ended almost 150 years ago?

Let's just stop pretending they were heroes. That's all I care about.

Why do you care?  Did you lose a leg fighting at Gettysburg or something?

Did you lose family at Dachau? You must have no opinion on that then.


No, thankfully, but there are still people alive who went through the Holocaust.  At some point, when something ugly passes from living memory, we need to let go of the anger.  I've been to Dachau, too.  It's still there.  Should it be torn down and erased from history?
 
2013-04-30 12:22:10 PM  

JollyMagistrate: TheShavingofOccam123: First proposed by Helen Plane, a charter member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, the carving was begun in 1923, but not completely finished until 1972 thanks to several starts and stops.
In 1916 the mountain itself was also the birthplace of the modern Ku Klux Klan, who held cross burnings there into the 1980's.

Yeah. Fark 'em. Shave it smooth.

And while your at it, have the work done by white men, forced to work under threat of death or torture, while their illegal wives and their children are sold and taken away from them. Make sure some of those white men are kidnapped and brought south.

And be sure and have a huge, mean black overseer there, too. One that can rape their illegal wives in front of them when he isn't beating the men.

And take away all their possessions, their ability to read and write.

That will surely commemorate the Confederacy and what it stood for better than some stone sculpture.

I can understand the anger, but wouldn't it be better to retain it with proper context about the atrocities committees provided throughout the park? It's like Auschwitz, by preserving it we can try to ensure future generations understand what went wrong and prevent it.

As of the last time I visited the park, that sort of context was few and far between. But the Confederacy was part of our national history, as was slavery, mass murder of native populations, and plenty of other terrible things. Better to remember them so we as a country can learn from those mistakes.


Nah. I'm more of the "So, you didn't think your cunning plan through, did you?" type of punishment guy.

/Now where did I put that petard
 
2013-04-30 12:22:14 PM  
I think we'd rather disparage the effigies due to them depicting the leaders of a failed rebellion.

I personally don't see how slave-holding even gets factored into the equation since slavery was legal in the Union all during the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation was aimed at Confederate slaves and left Union slaves in chains.

So, can we drop the pointless 'slave holder' disparaging and focus on the fact that we have a monument to a failed rebellion on US soil?
 
2013-04-30 12:22:27 PM  

Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.


By that logic, we should start erasing George Washington and Thomas Jefferson from everything, as they owned slaves and were traitors to the country (the British Empire).

Or we could acknowledge that pretty much all of our ancestors were dicks, move on with our lives, and put our energy into not being dicks ourselves instead of demonizing random historical dicks in the mistaken belief that the dicks that opposed them weren't also dicks.

//Dicks.
 
2013-04-30 12:23:16 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Nabb1: Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.

If the Revolution had failed, Washington and Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors.

But it didn't and thus they were not. And the Confederacy failed.

It did, yes, but it existed, and is a painful part of our nation's history that should not be forgotten.  And, honestly, even if they were traitors, is it really worth getting all worked up over a war that ended almost 150 years ago?

Let's just stop pretending they were heroes. That's all I care about.


To about 1/3rd of the population at the time they were heroes.

They aren't now, but understanding why they were at the time and why that was disastrous both to the Confederacy and human rights is important. Lee has as much historical relevance as Sherman, or Grant, or Lincoln. All contributed to how we became what we are today, even if those contributions were negative.
 
2013-04-30 12:23:28 PM  
special20

That idiot can join the same pack of jerks that blew up ancient shrines. Rednecks need shrines too.

F*ckin eh, we do!

   Here's my shrine:
imageshack.us

The Church of Rogers Pass!  Amen! Brother!

/good luck blowin that f*cker up
 
2013-04-30 12:23:53 PM  

GoldSpider: Imagine what Eqypt or any other former slave-owning cultural landscape would look like today if progressives were in charge.


Might be troll bait, but I'll bite anyway. Those who censor history tend to be the extremists coming from all ideologies (fascists just as much as communists). Hardly limited to one side of the political spectrum.
 
2013-04-30 12:24:11 PM  

GoldSpider: GoldSpider: Cultural and social progress demands that we sanitize history rather than learn from it.

FTFM.

Imagine what Eqypt or any other former slave-owning cultural landscape would look like today if progressives were in charge.


I tell ya, those slave-built pyramids are a constant reminder that someone, somewhere was at some time treated unfairly. I don't know how I get up in the morning.
 
2013-04-30 12:24:44 PM  

Sleeping Monkey: Mt. Rushmore doesn't represent slave owners and traitors to the country. Confederate leaders do.


Yeah I mean it's not like Jefferson wrote a Declaration that stated the colonies were going into open rebellion and NO CHANCE Washington would take up arms against his country's leaders!
 
2013-04-30 12:24:47 PM  

ManRay: If Gen Lee breaking his sword over his knee as Elvis hits "glory halleluiah" does not cause you to wipe a tear from your eye with a fried chicken greased finger, you are not living.


When they show picture of the confederate flag being rolled up I weep.

/Am I the only person who is a little disappointed with all the slides they show during the laser show these days?
 
2013-04-30 12:26:11 PM  
It's another busy body with to much time on his hands. If nothing else one must respect the Lee's and Jackson's tactical genius.

/In Missouri we turned are bloody past into a tourist draw.
// The Gray Ghost trail.
/// The Bleeding Kansas trail etc.
//// Proud descendant of a bushwhackers
 
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