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(Washington Post)   US involved in a war in the Middle East? That's crazy talk   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 47
    More: Scary, United States, boots on the ground, King Abdullah, chemical weapons, Human settlement, intervention, call report  
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2339 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Apr 2013 at 11:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 11:09:29 AM  
Troops in Jordan and Israel make it look like something might actually happen. Israel also struck and destroyed a chemical weapons factory near Aleppo, most likely at US request.
 
2013-04-30 11:49:27 AM  
There is a simple solution here. Have Israel form a volunteer army of East Coast neo-cons and bleeding heart-liberals to fight along side the non-Al Qaeda aligned rebel factions.
 
2013-04-30 11:53:13 AM  
The US can hide behind Israel's skirt on this one. Let them do it. Why are we the go-to country all the time? Their region, their problem. If they need us to make some box lunches for their intervention, then fine.
 
2013-04-30 11:53:25 AM  

WTF Indeed: There is a simple solution here. Have Israel form a volunteer army of East Coast neo-cons and bleeding heart-liberals to fight along side the non-Al Qaeda aligned rebel factions.


What if they are Marxist factions!? We can support that! That's just as bad as terrorists!
 
2013-04-30 11:55:01 AM  
Concern trolling warhawks are very concerned about chemical weapons.
 
2013-04-30 11:56:15 AM  
70,000 people have been killed in two years of brutal conflict between rebel groups and the heavily armed regime of Bashar al-Assad.

70k in two years gee what pikers

we could do that x10 in a month

and saving lives
all the people you dont kill; you get to claim as being saved
 
2013-04-30 11:58:11 AM  
Well, as long as we go in with a defined exit strategy, and are sure they will greet us as liberators and pay for it with their resources, it will be great!  C'mon, when's the last time we had a nice, long bombing of a non-military target full of civilians to see on TV?  Lost entire shipping crates of money?  By the way, if Syria falls, we'll be under threat of a mushroom cloud of terrorism.  Sure, our army might be stretched to its limits, but you go to war with the army you have, not the army you'd like to have.

And if you disagree for any reason, you are a traitor to your nation.
 
2013-04-30 11:59:14 AM  
A tiger? In Africa!?
 
2013-04-30 11:59:32 AM  

WTF Indeed: There is a simple solution here. Have Israel form a volunteer army of East Coast neo-cons and bleeding heart-liberals to fight along side the non-Al Qaeda aligned rebel factions.


As a bleeding heart liberal, let me assure you I have no interest in sending your kids to fight and die in Syria.

/nor did I in Iraq, for that matter
 
2013-04-30 12:00:01 PM  
And just as the US Army is about to get involved, The Talibans have arrived in Syria as well

Oh joy.
 
2013-04-30 12:03:48 PM  

Tatsuma: And just as the US Army is about to get involved, The Talibans have arrived in Syria as well

Oh joy.


B.S.
That's a casting call for Poppy Field of Dreams.
 
2013-04-30 12:07:10 PM  

Pinner: B.S.
That's a casting call for Poppy Field of Dreams.


Obama is in a press conference right now and declared that yes chemical weapons have been used, that Syria right now is a blemish on the international community and that the international community will have to act, as this game changer affects us all


Get ready for war, people.
 
2013-04-30 12:10:02 PM  

Tatsuma: Pinner: B.S.
That's a casting call for Poppy Field of Dreams.

Obama is in a press conference right now and declared that yes chemical weapons have been used, that Syria right now is a blemish on the international community and that the international community will have to act, as this game changer affects us all


Get ready for war, people.


It's a blemish. They get smaller and go away if you dry them out. Sanctionville.
 
2013-04-30 12:12:04 PM  
Look, it's true that our interventions in the Middle East have constantly blown back on us. However the law of averages means at least one of our interventions should be a rousing, unqualified success. What if it's this one? Adapting a sane foreign policy now would be like leaving money on the table.
 
2013-04-30 12:12:21 PM  

Tatsuma: Pinner: B.S.
That's a casting call for Poppy Field of Dreams.

Obama is in a press conference right now and declared that yes chemical weapons have been used, that Syria right now is a blemish on the international community and that the international community will have to act, as this game changer affects us all


Get ready for war, people.


So, when you say "get ready for war" on Fark, that just means be ready for flamewars on-line, right?
Cause aint nuthin differnt gonna happen when we git up in the mornins if thems gonna start fightin.
 
2013-04-30 12:15:45 PM  
I say we either let Israel do it on their own or we go all Libya-style.
 
2013-04-30 12:17:00 PM  
After more than a decade of practice, the US is too anxious to try out it's Iraqi accented Arabic on a new land. Just up the sequester to 20% cuts all around and the language lesson/cultural tour can go forward.   Besides, they don't teach cursive anymore in the US schools.
 
2013-04-30 12:17:23 PM  

Tatsuma: Get ready for war, people.


Farking goody-goody gumdrops.

So instead of Western-trained Assad running the show, we'll have untrained militiamen trying desperately to unite whatever factions they can to rule Syria the way THEY want it ruled. It's not like we've seen this exact scenario play out every few years for the last 60 or anything.

It's also not like there is any faction fighting the Assads who would promote democratic self-rule and full participation in the democracy/government by 100% of the citizenry. So no, I don't care. Let the neighborhood police its own.
 
2013-04-30 12:17:28 PM  
This is amazing.  US Presidents, going back to Eisenhower getting the CIA to depose the prime minister or Iran, have tried to play Game of Thrones all across the Middle East.

I, for one, welcome a leader who has finally realized that the only way to win is not to play.
 
2013-04-30 12:17:37 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: A tiger? In Africa!?


er... it probably escaped from the zoo.
 
2013-04-30 12:18:09 PM  

Stone Meadow: WTF Indeed: There is a simple solution here. Have Israel form a volunteer army of East Coast neo-cons and bleeding heart-liberals to fight along side the non-Al Qaeda aligned rebel factions.

As a bleeding heart liberal, let me assure you I have no interest in sending your kids to fight and die in Syria.

/nor did I in Iraq, for that matter


B-b-but both sides! Bad! Both sides same! Otherwise the golden mean fallacy on which I base my superiority to everyone else might fly apart and I might actually have to think!
 
2013-04-30 12:20:44 PM  

Karac: I, for one, welcome a leader who has finally realized that the only way to win is not to play.


Not to play? You mean the President who spearheaded a coalition of regime change in Libya, responsible for more drone attacks and assassinations in two years than Bush in 8 and has been stepping up the money and weapons sent to all anti-government groups in the region?

That's 'not playing'?
 
2013-04-30 12:25:42 PM  

Tatsuma: Karac: I, for one, welcome a leader who has finally realized that the only way to win is not to play.

Not to play? You mean the President who spearheaded a coalition of regime change in Libya, responsible for more drone attacks and assassinations in two years than Bush in 8 and has been stepping up the money and weapons sent to all anti-government groups in the region?

That's 'not playing'?


Compared to the last one?  Yeah.
Obama made the decision to provide as limited support as possibly for Libyan rebels, along with a group of other nations.   That's on him.
But the rest of what you mentioned?  Iraq, Afghanistan, continuing the War on Terror?  Bush tossed the ante into those pots, followed by a shiatload of chips.  Obama just did the best he could with the shiatty hand he took over.
 
2013-04-30 12:46:24 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Stone Meadow: WTF Indeed: There is a simple solution here. Have Israel form a volunteer army of East Coast neo-cons and bleeding heart-liberals to fight along side the non-Al Qaeda aligned rebel factions.

As a bleeding heart liberal, let me assure you I have no interest in sending your kids to fight and die in Syria.

/nor did I in Iraq, for that matter

B-b-but both sides! Bad! Both sides same! Otherwise the golden mean fallacy on which I base my superiority to everyone else might fly apart and I might actually have to think!


All geared up for tomorrow comrade? :)
 
2013-04-30 12:53:04 PM  

FarkedOver: All geared up for tomorrow comrade? :)


Heh! Should be interesting. The FBI and DHS have been crawling all over Seattle the last few weeks paying visits to a number of our comrades, almost universally people who are not and have never been involved with anything more damning than illegal camping, and the local news media has been working overtime to make last year's May Day (total damage of any sort for any reason: four broken windows and a failed incendiary device) sound like the WTO riots and at the same time misquote people and take them out of context to try and create rifts between different activist groups. They certainly seem to be demanding a grand performance, so, hey, I hope they get one.
 
2013-04-30 12:55:18 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: FarkedOver: All geared up for tomorrow comrade? :)

Heh! Should be interesting. The FBI and DHS have been crawling all over Seattle the last few weeks paying visits to a number of our comrades, almost universally people who are not and have never been involved with anything more damning than illegal camping, and the local news media has been working overtime to make last year's May Day (total damage of any sort for any reason: four broken windows and a failed incendiary device) sound like the WTO riots and at the same time misquote people and take them out of context to try and create rifts between different activist groups. They certainly seem to be demanding a grand performance, so, hey, I hope they get one.


I'm in Boston so I plan on being at the rally expecting a cavity search.  You've got it easy! Damn you Marathon bombers!
 
2013-04-30 01:02:10 PM  

WTF Indeed: There is a simple solution here. Have Israel form a volunteer army of East Coast neo-cons and bleeding heart-liberals to fight along side the non-Al Qaeda aligned rebel factions.


It'll never work now that the Scooter Store has been shut down by the Feds.
 
2013-04-30 01:02:14 PM  

FarkedOver: A Dark Evil Omen: FarkedOver: All geared up for tomorrow comrade? :)

Heh! Should be interesting. The FBI and DHS have been crawling all over Seattle the last few weeks paying visits to a number of our comrades, almost universally people who are not and have never been involved with anything more damning than illegal camping, and the local news media has been working overtime to make last year's May Day (total damage of any sort for any reason: four broken windows and a failed incendiary device) sound like the WTO riots and at the same time misquote people and take them out of context to try and create rifts between different activist groups. They certainly seem to be demanding a grand performance, so, hey, I hope they get one.

I'm in Boston so I plan on being at the rally expecting a cavity search.  You've got it easy! Damn you Marathon bombers!


Shove some tootsie rolls up your ass. Wrappers and all. Maybe throw in a Chick o Stick.
 
2013-04-30 01:19:31 PM  

Pinner: The US can hide behind Israel's skirt on this one. Let them do it. Why are we the go-to country all the time? Their region, their problem. If they need us to make some box lunches for their intervention, then fine.


actually we should hide behind Turkey; Turkey has more legit reasons to intervene, and Israeli intervention would cause more problems than it solves.
 
2013-04-30 01:30:11 PM  
Time, time, time for another peaceful war.
 
2013-04-30 01:37:27 PM  

dumbobruni: Pinner: The US can hide behind Israel's skirt on this one. Let them do it. Why are we the go-to country all the time? Their region, their problem. If they need us to make some box lunches for their intervention, then fine.

actually we should hide behind Turkey; Turkey has more legit reasons to intervene, and Israeli intervention would cause more problems than it solves.


If the skirt fits...
 
2013-04-30 01:38:31 PM  
Let's just hope we can do it Libya-style, rather than Iraq-style.
 
2013-04-30 01:40:00 PM  

dumbobruni: Pinner: The US can hide behind Israel's skirt on this one. Let them do it. Why are we the go-to country all the time? Their region, their problem. If they need us to make some box lunches for their intervention, then fine.

actually we should hide behind Turkey; Turkey has more legit reasons to intervene, and Israeli intervention would cause more problems than it solves.


Turkey has one of the biggest armies in terms of armored vehicles and artillery in the world.  Their conventional forces alone could easily wipe out Syria, and Russia wouldn't dare intervene against them on their home turf (otherwise Turkey already wouldn't exist).  With the rest of NATO controlling the airspace and knocking out Syrian defenses, Turkey would steamrole them like they were running downhill.  Turkey is our most valuable ally in the ME, and NATO should not forget it for this reason.
 
2013-04-30 02:19:30 PM  

spiderpaz: dumbobruni: Pinner: The US can hide behind Israel's skirt on this one. Let them do it. Why are we the go-to country all the time? Their region, their problem. If they need us to make some box lunches for their intervention, then fine.

actually we should hide behind Turkey; Turkey has more legit reasons to intervene, and Israeli intervention would cause more problems than it solves.

Turkey has one of the biggest armies in terms of armored vehicles and artillery in the world.  Their conventional forces alone could easily wipe out Syria, and Russia wouldn't dare intervene against them on their home turf (otherwise Turkey already wouldn't exist).  With the rest of NATO controlling the airspace and knocking out Syrian defenses, Turkey would steamrole them like they were running downhill.  Turkey is our most valuable ally in the ME, and NATO should not forget it for this reason.


The oil revenues will pay for the whole thing right?
 
2013-04-30 02:29:33 PM  
Invading Syria would make Iraq look like a cakewalk.  Iraq is heavily split between Sunni and shiate, and a whole lot of people hated Saddam, were only too happy to see him get it in the neck.  Only too happy for the possibility of gaining influence in an oil power, and/or one one side of the Sunni/shiate split.

Invading and occupying Syria would generate nothing but hate and fury and hordes of young men with IEDs.  Plus it would destabilize Lebanon and Jordan, at the very least, stir up all kinds of additional trouble with the Kurds, which would spill over into Iraq and Turkey, and infuriate Russia.  And Europe would say, "Oh sorry, look at the time, I simply must dash, and we'd love to let you use our airspace, but it's having its hair washed this decade."

I sincerely hope that we've put away our Halloween "Spreadin' Democracy at the Barrel of a Gun MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" superhero costume for good.
 
2013-04-30 02:34:21 PM  

odinsposse: Look, it's true that our interventions in the Middle East have constantly blown back on us. However the law of averages means at least one of our interventions should be a rousing, unqualified success. What if it's this one? Adapting a sane foreign policy now would be like leaving money on the table.



There is no such thing as law of averages. Which says everything you need to know about the rest of your argument.
 
2013-04-30 02:35:42 PM  

Kibbler: Invading and occupying Syria would generate nothing but hate and fury and hordes of young men with IEDs. Plus it would destabilize Lebanon and Jordan, at the very least, stir up all kinds of additional trouble with the Kurds, which would spill over into Iraq and Turkey


That's why a certain Farker at the top of this thread could barely contain his joy at the prospect.

More instability means more money for his favorite desert burg.
 
2013-04-30 02:54:10 PM  

Evil Mackerel: spiderpaz: dumbobruni: Pinner: The US can hide behind Israel's skirt on this one. Let them do it. Why are we the go-to country all the time? Their region, their problem. If they need us to make some box lunches for their intervention, then fine.

actually we should hide behind Turkey; Turkey has more legit reasons to intervene, and Israeli intervention would cause more problems than it solves.

Turkey has one of the biggest armies in terms of armored vehicles and artillery in the world.  Their conventional forces alone could easily wipe out Syria, and Russia wouldn't dare intervene against them on their home turf (otherwise Turkey already wouldn't exist).  With the rest of NATO controlling the airspace and knocking out Syrian defenses, Turkey would steamrole them like they were running downhill.  Turkey is our most valuable ally in the ME, and NATO should not forget it for this reason.

The oil revenues will pay for the whole thing right?


I don't really care how Turkey pays for it, personally.  As long as the US stays on it's ships and airfields, the cost to us will be similar to Libya.  After that ... let Turkey get its money back however they want from their neighbor.
 
2013-04-30 03:30:22 PM  

Evil Mackerel: spiderpaz: dumbobruni: Pinner: The US can hide behind Israel's skirt on this one. Let them do it. Why are we the go-to country all the time? Their region, their problem. If they need us to make some box lunches for their intervention, then fine.

actually we should hide behind Turkey; Turkey has more legit reasons to intervene, and Israeli intervention would cause more problems than it solves.

Turkey has one of the biggest armies in terms of armored vehicles and artillery in the world.  Their conventional forces alone could easily wipe out Syria, and Russia wouldn't dare intervene against them on their home turf (otherwise Turkey already wouldn't exist).  With the rest of NATO controlling the airspace and knocking out Syrian defenses, Turkey would steamrole them like they were running downhill.  Turkey is our most valuable ally in the ME, and NATO should not forget it for this reason.

The oil revenues will pay for the whole thing right?


I guess the millions of Syrian refugees living in Turkey right now don't have a cost either.
 
2013-04-30 03:31:16 PM  
errr, tens of thousands.

/derp
 
2013-04-30 03:39:23 PM  

FarkedOver: A Dark Evil Omen: FarkedOver: All geared up for tomorrow comrade? :)

Heh! Should be interesting. The FBI and DHS have been crawling all over Seattle the last few weeks paying visits to a number of our comrades, almost universally people who are not and have never been involved with anything more damning than illegal camping, and the local news media has been working overtime to make last year's May Day (total damage of any sort for any reason: four broken windows and a failed incendiary device) sound like the WTO riots and at the same time misquote people and take them out of context to try and create rifts between different activist groups. They certainly seem to be demanding a grand performance, so, hey, I hope they get one.

I'm in Boston so I plan on being at the rally expecting a cavity search.  You've got it easy! Damn you Marathon bombers!


Why is May Day a big expected riot in Seattle and Boston?
 
2013-04-30 03:51:43 PM  

meyerkev: Why is May Day a big expected riot in Seattle and Boston?


In major metropolitan areas you may see black flags, red flags, red and black flags and bandana clad people championing the rights of the working class.  It's international workers day.
 
2013-04-30 03:57:19 PM  

meyerkev: FarkedOver: A Dark Evil Omen: FarkedOver: All geared up for tomorrow comrade? :)

Heh! Should be interesting. The FBI and DHS have been crawling all over Seattle the last few weeks paying visits to a number of our comrades, almost universally people who are not and have never been involved with anything more damning than illegal camping, and the local news media has been working overtime to make last year's May Day (total damage of any sort for any reason: four broken windows and a failed incendiary device) sound like the WTO riots and at the same time misquote people and take them out of context to try and create rifts between different activist groups. They certainly seem to be demanding a grand performance, so, hey, I hope they get one.

I'm in Boston so I plan on being at the rally expecting a cavity search.  You've got it easy! Damn you Marathon bombers!

Why is May Day a big expected riot in Seattle and Boston?


There isn't. There wasn't last year, there won't be this year. There's a number of protests that the cops always try to play up as a huge riot. In reality, there's usually one or two people who'll bust up a window or two who, as far as I can tell, are generally a mix of cops and bored teenagers from out of town. The cops then use the anemic vandalism as an excuse to engage in a bunch of politically-motivated arrests. Last year's fun ended with a bunch of anarchist comrades who were not involved in anything getting dragged into a grand jury, given the McCarthy treatment and locked up for close to a year for daring not to cooperate with a witch hunt. This year the cops used last year's "mayhem" (I reiterate: A few broken windows and a failed incendiary device, totaling well into the tens of dollars of property damage, with the only injuries being a few people who didn't do anything but got assaulted by our local vigilante shiatheads for having the temerity to be in public) to get big money to be rocking riot gear and DHS and FBI support for this year. I'm sure there will be a handful of cops in ninja pajamas breaking a couple of windows again this year.
 
2013-04-30 05:47:04 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I say we either let Israel do it on their own or we go all Libya-style.


Bombs only, no boots.
 
2013-04-30 06:33:47 PM  

Wendy's Chili: Kibbler: Invading and occupying Syria would generate nothing but hate and fury and hordes of young men with IEDs. Plus it would destabilize Lebanon and Jordan, at the very least, stir up all kinds of additional trouble with the Kurds, which would spill over into Iraq and Turkey

That's why a certain Farker at the top of this thread could barely contain his joy at the prospect.

More instability means more money for his favorite desert burg.


Which is why I have him on ignore.
 
2013-04-30 08:21:53 PM  
FTA: Action by U.S. forces may or may not make the situation better - but certainly could make things worse. This assessment could change, of course.

Incisive stuff, Eugene.
 
2013-05-01 12:56:10 AM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Bombs only, no boots.


Because look how that turned out in Libya - which is now a paragon of democracy, shining like a beacon in North Africa.
 
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