If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Bloomberg)   It turns out that driving abortion providers underground leads to some pretty shocking conditions   (bloomberg.com) divider line 216
    More: Obvious, abortions, Kermit Gosnell, West Philadelphia, dark suits  
•       •       •

7916 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 9:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



216 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-04-30 08:09:52 AM  
Let me get my trollin gloves on:

It turns out that driving rape clubs underground leads to some pretty shocking conditions
 
2013-04-30 08:10:06 AM  
Underground?  Here was a guy that was inspected by the NAF and they refused to let him in their club.  But rather than report him to the state of PA for abhorrent conditions (one would suppose it was because keeping the clinic sanitary cost too much money), they kept quiet.  Tack on the state's refusal to inspect him because a democrat was elected governor, you end up with Gosnell. 

Now the question becomes, how many more clinics are like his?
 
2013-04-30 08:10:19 AM  
Im appalled at what the Republicans have done to America. What kind of sick culture have they wrought that puts people on trial for cutting a baby's spinal column with scissors? I've had it up to here with your "war on murderers", Republicans.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-30 08:38:33 AM  

EnviroDude: Underground?  Here was a guy that was inspected by the NAF and they refused to let him in their club.  But rather than report him to the state of PA for abhorrent conditions (one would suppose it was because keeping the clinic sanitary cost too much money), they kept quiet.  Tack on the state's refusal to inspect him because a democrat was elected governor, you end up with Gosnell. 

Now the question becomes, how many more clinics are like his can we manufacture a scandal out of a non-profit educational organization not trying to be the police?


FTFY.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-30 08:40:34 AM  
dakiniland.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-30 08:42:27 AM  

vpb: Now the question becomes, how many more clinics are like his can we manufacture a scandal out of a non-profit educational organization not trying to be the police?


Non profit educational organization?  This isn't the PTA!

There are dead bodies associated with this guy, and I am not referring to the dead babies.
 
2013-04-30 08:48:05 AM  

vpb: [dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 300x201]


Cute - but when you read the Grand Jury report, one has to wonder why the democrats in the DOH and the NAF didn't stop this guy until there were dead bodies.

From the Grand Jury report (pdf warning)  http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf

Page 9

After 1993, ..., the Pennsylvania Department of Health abruptly decided, for political reasons, to stop inspecting abortion clinics at all. The politics in question were not anti-abortion, but pro. With the change of administration from Governor Casey to Governor Ridge, officials concluded that inspections would be "putting a barrier up to women" seeking abortions. Better to leave clinics to do as they pleased, even though, as Gosnell proved, that meant both women and babies would pay.

Page 137

THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH NEGLECTED ITS DUTY TO ENSURE THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF PATIENTS IN PENNSYLVANIA'S ABORTION CLINICS.

We discovered that Pennsylvania's Department of Health has deliberately chose not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers. Even nail salons in Pennsylvania are monitored more closely for client safety.

The State Legislature has charged the Department of Health (DOH) with responsibility for writing and enforcing regulations to protect health and safety in abortion clinics as well as in hospitals and other health care facilities. Yet a significant difference exists between how DOH monitors abortion clinics and how it monitors facilities where other medical procedures are performed.

Indeed, the department has shown an utter disregard both for the safety of women who seek treatment at abortion clinics and for the health of fetuses after they have become viable. State health officials have also shown a disregard for the laws the department is supposed to enforce.

from page 147

Staloski blamed the decision to abandon supposedly annual inspections of abortion clinics on DOH lawyers, who, she said, changed their legal opinions and advice to suit the policy preferences of different governors. Under Governor Robert Casey, she said, the department inspected abortion facilities annually. Yet, when Governor Tom Ridge came in, the attorneys interpreted the same regulations that had permitted annual inspections for years to no longer authorize those inspections.

page 148

Nevertheless, the position of DOH remained the same after Edward Rendell became governor. Using the legally faulty excuse that the department lacked the authority to inspect abortion clinics, Staloski left them unmonitored, presumably with the knowledge and blessing of her bosses, Deputy Secretary Stacy Mitchell and a succession of Secretaries of Health. The department continued its do-nothing policy until 2010, when media attention surrounding the raid of the Gosnell clinic exposed the results of years of hands-off "oversight."

page 16

So too with the National Abortion Federation. (NAF) is an association of abortion providers that upholds the strictest health and legal standards for its members. Gosnell, bizarrely, applied for admission shortly after Karnamaya Mongar's death. Despite his various efforts to fool her, the evaluator from NAF readily noted that records were not properly kept, that risks were not explained, that patients were not monitored, that equipment was not available, that anesthesia was misused. It was the worst abortion clinic she had ever inspected. Of course, she rejected Gosnell's application. She just never told anyone in authority about all the horrible, dangerous things she had seen.

page 95
(the summary of the NAF representative testimony is on the previous pages [90 - 95])
We understand that NAF's goal is to assist clinics to comply with its standards, not to sanction them for deficiencies. Nevertheless, we have to question why an evaluator from NAF, whose stated mission is to ensure safe, legal, and acceptable abortion care, and to promote health and justice for women, did not report Gosnell to authorities.

page 162/163

Abortion rights advocates told us the same thing - that licensing abortion clinics as ASFs would not be burdensome because clinics that are members of NAF, or associated with Planned Parenthood, already comply with the highest standards of care. A second reason proffered by DOH attorneys for not licensing abortion clinics - that abortion is "controversial" - is just insulting.

page 252

The Department of Health might draw additional standards for inspection from protocols published by the National Abortion Federation, Planned Parenthood, and CHOICE, a Philadelphia non-profit that offers information, education, and referrals related to women's and children's health care. These groups conduct inspections of abortion facilities before approving them or referring women to them. Their standards are, in many ways, more stringent and more protective of women's safety than are Pennsylvania's abortion regulations.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-30 09:15:13 AM  
EnviroDude:

...A second reason proffered by DOH attorneys for not licensing abortion clinics - that abortion is "controversial" - is just insulting.

That's odd.  That grand jury report reads like something from the Blaze.
 
2013-04-30 09:17:32 AM  
If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.
 
2013-04-30 09:31:20 AM  

James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.


They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.
 
2013-04-30 09:32:59 AM  

James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.


I agree. The more they try to drive it underground the worse it will get.
 
2013-04-30 09:35:30 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.

They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.


And then you find desperate people making desperate choices.
 
2013-04-30 09:35:48 AM  

vpb: That's odd. That grand jury report reads like something from the Blaze.


snert
 
2013-04-30 09:56:10 AM  

EnviroDude: Underground?


Hospital?
 
2013-04-30 09:56:27 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.

They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.


I'm glad to see they took away the requirement of the doctors having to have a size 9 1/2 shoe...
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-30 09:59:55 AM  

Laocoon: snert


cache.ohinternet.com
 
2013-04-30 10:03:43 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.


In most States, the Noble Laureate can't be Paul Krugman. That was a recent addition.
 
2013-04-30 10:12:03 AM  

vpb: EnviroDude:

...A second reason proffered by DOH attorneys for not licensing abortion clinics - that abortion is "controversial" - is just insulting.

That's odd.  That grand jury report reads like something from the Blaze.


The Blaze?  Hardly.  More like a bad Stephen King or Edgar Allen Poe story.

I would have expected to read about  a clinic like his in some story originating in Africa, not Pennsylvania.  The US is not a third world country.
 
2013-04-30 10:16:15 AM  

Hack Patooey: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.

They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.

I'm glad to see they took away the requirement of the doctors having to have a size 9 1/2 shoe...


Well if those regulations are egregious, the ones requiring a sterile environment and proper dosages of anesthesia must also be egregious, amirite?
 
2013-04-30 10:16:49 AM  
Going with the Ike Turner rationalization, I see.  "Why did you make me hit you, baby?  You know I love you."
 
2013-04-30 10:16:55 AM  

serial_crusher: Hack Patooey: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.

They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.

I'm glad to see they took away the requirement of the doctors having to have a size 9 1/2 shoe...

Well if those regulations are egregious, the ones requiring a sterile environment and proper dosages of anesthesia must also be egregious, amirite?


What is the proper dose?
 
2013-04-30 10:17:22 AM  

Nabb1: Going with the Ike Turner rationalization, I see.  "Why did you make me hit you, baby?  You know I love you."


Who is Ike in this instance?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-30 10:18:30 AM  
EnviroDude:
I would have expected to read about  a clinic like his in some story originating in Africa, not Pennsylvania.  The US is not a third world country.

I don't know, the state trying to blame non-profits for it's failures seems pretty third world to me.
And I think Pennsylvania is more third world than some parts of Africa.
 
2013-04-30 10:20:12 AM  
I've always wanted to know...

In counties/townships where sex ed is lessened greatly/removed from the curriculum, does teen pregnancy increase at a noticeable/meaningful rate...thusly increasing the amount of abortions?

I know those less educated tend to become pregnant at a younger age, so shiatty schooling conditions like those in the inner city, and for those with unsupportive parents...yeah I get it.  So, to me at least, a logical conclusion in reducing sex ed is an increase of teen pregnancy and abortions, but correlation is not always causation.

Can anyone add to/answer this?
 
2013-04-30 10:21:55 AM  

James!: Nabb1: Going with the Ike Turner rationalization, I see.  "Why did you make me hit you, baby?  You know I love you."

Who is Ike in this instance?


Whomever is saying this is the result of pro-life pressure.  It's ridiculous.  These clinics still have to be regulated by the state, including inspections.  And these scenarios where a fetus survives briefly after the procedure have to be done in the late second trimester or early third where a hospital is unlikely to do such a procedure, anyway.  I'm sorry that this type of practice attracts people who think severing a baby's spinal column is acceptable.  It's truly barbaric.
 
2013-04-30 10:24:51 AM  

Nabb1: James!: Nabb1: Going with the Ike Turner rationalization, I see.  "Why did you make me hit you, baby?  You know I love you."

Who is Ike in this instance?

Whomever is saying this is the result of pro-life pressure.  It's ridiculous.  These clinics still have to be regulated by the state, including inspections.  And these scenarios where a fetus survives briefly after the procedure have to be done in the late second trimester or early third where a hospital is unlikely to do such a procedure, anyway.  I'm sorry that this type of practice attracts people who think severing a baby's spinal column is acceptable.  It's truly barbaric.


This guy was specifically conduction procedures that were illegal in the state of Pennsylvania for people who could not get abortions any other way. The more restrictions placed on venues where safe abortions can be performed the more business you are directing to guys like Gosnell.

And not that I doubt that this guy was a scumbag, but the killing a life baby thing is based on what someone claims they heard from the waiting room.  It's bad enough without resorting to rumors.
 
2013-04-30 10:27:25 AM  
EnviroDude:

So it would seem that the lax policies of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, and the bending of the inspection rules to suit some Governors agendas in conjunction with the general apathy of either this inspector from the NAF, or the culture of the NAF itself helped in fostering an environment whereGosnell and his ilk could perform these late term abortions without much heat from the powers that be?

If that is the case, oh boy...I suspect a lot of shiat is going to come from this trial and a lot of change will happen in PA
 
2013-04-30 10:28:15 AM  

vpb: EnviroDude:
I would have expected to read about  a clinic like his in some story originating in Africa, not Pennsylvania.  The US is not a third world country.

I don't know, the state trying to blame non-profits for it's failures seems pretty third world to me.
And I think Pennsylvania is more third world than some parts of Africa.


You mean organizations like Planned Parenthood and the NAF that get millions from the US taxpayer?  Blaming them for not reporting Gosnell after they saw his torture chamber?

If i were a pro-abortion leftist, I would own this one and vow to enact reforms designed to stop it from happening again.  But if I did that, I would be painted as not being pro-abortion, would I.

Once again, the left is insuring women suffer like they did in the 1950's (courtesy of the silent democrats).
 
2013-04-30 10:29:26 AM  

James!: Nabb1: James!: Nabb1: Going with the Ike Turner rationalization, I see.  "Why did you make me hit you, baby?  You know I love you."

Who is Ike in this instance?

Whomever is saying this is the result of pro-life pressure.  It's ridiculous.  These clinics still have to be regulated by the state, including inspections.  And these scenarios where a fetus survives briefly after the procedure have to be done in the late second trimester or early third where a hospital is unlikely to do such a procedure, anyway.  I'm sorry that this type of practice attracts people who think severing a baby's spinal column is acceptable.  It's truly barbaric.

This guy was specifically conduction procedures that were illegal in the state of Pennsylvania for people who could not get abortions any other way. The more restrictions placed on venues where safe abortions can be performed the more business you are directing to guys like Gosnell.

And not that I doubt that this guy was a scumbag, but the killing a life baby thing is based on what someone claims they heard from the waiting room.  It's bad enough without resorting to rumors.


Is it not up to the state to regulate these places and conduct regular inspections?  I seem to recall his clinic had gone years without one.  Perhaps if these sorts of procedures are to remain legal, the state needs to be more proactive in it's duty to protect the public.  It sounds to be like Pennsylvania was exceedingly lax in its oversight.
 
2013-04-30 10:30:48 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.

They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.


I am sure you are using hyperbole here...so what you are saying is that standalone abortion and family planning clinics can operate with little oversight  but for an abortion to be performed by a Dr. at a hospital, they have to adhere to a bunch of arbitrary points of compliance?

If that is the case, what are some of the items they must have in compliance that standalone clinics do not?
 
2013-04-30 10:30:51 AM  

Endive Wombat: EnviroDude:

So it would seem that the lax policies of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, and the bending of the inspection rules to suit some Governors agendas in conjunction with the general apathy of either this inspector from the NAF, or the culture of the NAF itself helped in fostering an environment whereGosnell and his ilk could perform these late term abortions without much heat from the powers that be?

If that is the case, oh boy...I suspect a lot of shiat is going to come from this trial and a lot of change will happen in PA


One would hope so.  I think that the left and the pro-abortion crowd will sweep this under the rug and forget about it until the next woman dies.
 
2013-04-30 10:32:29 AM  

Nabb1: Whomever is saying this is the result of pro-life pressure. It's ridiculous.


It's not ridiculous, it's exactly what happens when onerous restrictions are placed on abortion. Women will get them, legal or not, and every roadblock to access sends more women to the like of Gosnell and the ilk that do whatever they can get away with.
 
2013-04-30 10:33:13 AM  

Nabb1: James!: Nabb1: James!: Nabb1: Going with the Ike Turner rationalization, I see.  "Why did you make me hit you, baby?  You know I love you."

Who is Ike in this instance?

Whomever is saying this is the result of pro-life pressure.  It's ridiculous.  These clinics still have to be regulated by the state, including inspections.  And these scenarios where a fetus survives briefly after the procedure have to be done in the late second trimester or early third where a hospital is unlikely to do such a procedure, anyway.  I'm sorry that this type of practice attracts people who think severing a baby's spinal column is acceptable.  It's truly barbaric.

This guy was specifically conduction procedures that were illegal in the state of Pennsylvania for people who could not get abortions any other way. The more restrictions placed on venues where safe abortions can be performed the more business you are directing to guys like Gosnell.

And not that I doubt that this guy was a scumbag, but the killing a life baby thing is based on what someone claims they heard from the waiting room.  It's bad enough without resorting to rumors.

Is it not up to the state to regulate these places and conduct regular inspections?  I seem to recall his clinic had gone years without one.  Perhaps if these sorts of procedures are to remain legal, the state needs to be more proactive in it's duty to protect the public.  It sounds to be like Pennsylvania was exceedingly lax in its oversight.


No shiat.  His assistant was also underage and unlicensed.  They finally did something about him based on a drug investigation since he was distributing pain killers like candy.

Go, go War on Drugs.
 
2013-04-30 10:38:10 AM  

cman: Let me get my trollin gloves on:

It turns out that driving rape clubs underground leads to some pretty shocking conditions


That doesn't involve adult consent.  A better comparison:

It turns out that driving prostitution clubs underground leads to some pretty shocking conditions.

That's already happening and as with abortion clinics, should be rectified with regulation, licensing and people minding their own business.  And coincidentally, women have more rights and autonomy under both conclusions.
 
2013-04-30 10:40:10 AM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Nabb1: Whomever is saying this is the result of pro-life pressure. It's ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous, it's exactly what happens when onerous restrictions are placed on abortion. Women will get them, legal or not, and every roadblock to access sends more women to the like of Gosnell and the ilk that do whatever they can get away with.


You could say that about any criminal activity.  There's a reason reputable physicians won't do an abortion at 24 weeks unless it is a medical emergency, and then it's done in a hospital.  Then again, I know of at least one person here who said killing the child in such a circumstance was a good thing.  Such is the mindset one must buy into, I suppose.
 
2013-04-30 10:44:20 AM  

Nabb1: Then again, I know of at least one person here who said killing the child in such a circumstance was a good thing.


I'd say we let the doctors and potential parents decide what is and is not a "good thing" when it comes to their medical care. Save your morality for when the situation affects you.

// and yes, the option for abortion at 24+ weeks for things like complicated pregnancies or fetal developmental problems/disorders or mom-to-be's mental health or any of a million other health problems is a good thing
 
2013-04-30 10:44:32 AM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Nabb1: Whomever is saying this is the result of pro-life pressure. It's ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous, it's exactly what happens when onerous restrictions are placed on abortion. Women will get them, legal or not, and every roadblock to access sends more women to the like of Gosnell and the ilk that do whatever they can get away with.



I've never stepped foot in or around an abortion clinic, nor do I know of the laws and how they vary state to state...

Abortion has got to be on some level, traumatic to women.  Even the most hardened whore, drug addict, low life recognizes that they are killing a living thing.

I am not pro-life or pro-choice, I believe that women deserve the very best and safest healthcare available, including when the need arises for an abortion.

I know this would somewhat go against their business model, but why is there not a 24-72 hour required "cooling off period" between initial Dr. visit and actual abortion procedure?  Also, how much is adoption actually discussed as a viable option?  Are there any Christian (pro-life) nonprofit, federal or state grant programs that allow women who do not want their child to be given some money where they can take the baby to full term, birth it, then adopt it out?

Again, I am an outside observer here, but it would seem that rather driving women to places like this asshole's torture room of horror, there has to be better options...I guess my question, is how available are these options, and if they are not in place, why?
 
2013-04-30 10:46:20 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Nabb1: Then again, I know of at least one person here who said killing the child in such a circumstance was a good thing.

I'd say we let the doctors and potential parents decide what is and is not a "good thing" when it comes to their medical care. Save your morality for when the situation affects you.


So, you think that if the child survives the procedure, you should just snap its neck?  That's murder, not abortion.
 
2013-04-30 10:48:27 AM  

Sergeant Grumbles: it's exactly what happens when onerous restrictions are placed on abortion.


Bullshiat. The party line cannot be both "isolated incident" and "well, what do you expect?" at the same time.
 
2013-04-30 10:52:42 AM  

Gulper Eel: Sergeant Grumbles: it's exactly what happens when onerous restrictions are placed on abortion.

Bullshiat. The party line cannot be both "isolated incident" and "well, what do you expect?" at the same time.


I doubt it is an isolated incident.  This is exactly what pro-choice people have been warning about throughout the entire abortion debate.
 
2013-04-30 10:52:45 AM  
It's impressive how this is both the fault of over-regulation and under-regulation.
 
2013-04-30 10:53:37 AM  

Nabb1: Dr Dreidel: Nabb1: Then again, I know of at least one person here who said killing the child in such a circumstance was a good thing.

I'd say we let the doctors and potential parents decide what is and is not a "good thing" when it comes to their medical care. Save your morality for when the situation affects you.

So, you think that if the child survives the procedure, you should just snap its neck?  That's murder, not abortion.


Your passion on this is clouding your judgement.  No one is suggesting snapping a newborn's neck.
 
2013-04-30 10:55:28 AM  
abortion is a filthy and terrible activity.
 
2013-04-30 10:56:03 AM  

Endive Wombat: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: James!: If only abortions could be done in the safety of hospitals.

They can be... as long as the hospital follows state law requiring 87 surgical sinks and a Nobel laureate on site 24 hours a day. Oh, and the hospital must have a burn center and be globally recognized as a leader in orthopedics. THEN abortions can happen.

I am sure you are using hyperbole here...so what you are saying is that standalone abortion and family planning clinics can operate with little oversight  but for an abortion to be performed by a Dr. at a hospital, they have to adhere to a bunch of arbitrary points of compliance?

If that is the case, what are some of the items they must have in compliance that standalone clinics do not?


Yes, what are these items? That would be interesting to know.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:06 AM  

James!: Gulper Eel: Sergeant Grumbles: it's exactly what happens when onerous restrictions are placed on abortion.

Bullshiat. The party line cannot be both "isolated incident" and "well, what do you expect?" at the same time.

I doubt it is an isolated incident.  This is exactly what pro-choice people have been warning about throughout the entire abortion debate.


Maybe the pro-choice people should be clamoring for more direct oversight of these facilities instead of blaming others for the psychos the industry attracts.

YixilTesiphon: It's impressive how this is both the fault of over-regulation and under-regulation.


You can have all the regulations on earth, but if no one is actually doing work to enforce them and ensure they are being followed, then it's no good.  Another example is the BP/Transocean oil spill in the Gulf.  People in the industry down her have told me that BP and Transocean broke every rule already in the books.  But they actively rushed things, covered up a lot, and someone wasn't doing their job in oversight.  A regulation is just words on a page without people actively doing something.
 
2013-04-30 10:58:20 AM  

James!: Nabb1: Dr Dreidel: Nabb1: Then again, I know of at least one person here who said killing the child in such a circumstance was a good thing.

I'd say we let the doctors and potential parents decide what is and is not a "good thing" when it comes to their medical care. Save your morality for when the situation affects you.

So, you think that if the child survives the procedure, you should just snap its neck?  That's murder, not abortion.

Your passion on this is clouding your judgement.  No one is suggesting snapping a newborn's neck.


Gosnell has been accused of, among other things, severing the spinal cord of a baby that survived an abortion.  And, BTW, a certain FARKer in another thread told me he was just fine with that.
 
2013-04-30 10:59:05 AM  

Nabb1: You can have all the regulations on earth, but if no one is actually doing work to enforce them and ensure they are being followed, then it's no good.  Another example is the BP/Transocean oil spill in the Gulf.  People in the industry down her have told me that BP and Transocean broke every rule already in the books.  But they actively rushed things, covered up a lot, and someone wasn't doing their job in oversight.  A regulation is just words on a page without people actively doing something.


Yes they are. Makes one wonder if the thousands of new regulations added each year are worth anything.
 
2013-04-30 10:59:32 AM  

Nabb1: psychos the industry attracts.


You are getting too excited.  Take a breath, walk away for a moment and realize that we both agree that the actions of Kermit Gosnell are abhorrent.  His operation should have been shut down day one.  However, we disagree about why his operation existed in the first place.  There was a demand for what he was supplying.
 
2013-04-30 11:00:42 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Nabb1: Then again, I know of at least one person here who said killing the child in such a circumstance was a good thing.

I'd say we let the doctors and potential parents decide what is and is not a "good thing" when it comes to their medical care. Save your morality for when the situation affects you.

// and yes, the option for abortion at 24+ weeks for things like complicated pregnancies or fetal developmental problems/disorders or mom-to-be's mental health or any of a million other health problems is a good thing


Sadish Story Bro:
We've got a family friend who had to have an abortion at 28-29 weeks (beginning of 3rd trimester).  Anyway the Dr discovered that the baby's skull really did not form, the "brain" was outside what little skull there was, the spine was totally exposed, there were no eyeballs...

They knew earlier in the pregnancy that the baby was possibly going to be deformed/severely handicapped, but being the good Christians they are, they said "this is God's will and we accept whatever comes to us."  So good for them I guess.

Then they go in for an ultrasound, meet with the Dr. and he drops the bad news on them.  The baby will not likely even make it to term, and now is very dangerous for her to keep carrying around inside her.  He recommended an abortion.  She got one and the story I was told was that the baby/fetus was (according to the Dr) a mess of growing body parts with a very underdeveloped "brain mass."  To say that this thing had life would be stretching the truth an awful lot.

Years later, I was speaking with the husband about it.  He commented on the irony of the situation.  He, his wife and church regularly protested at various abortion clinics, and only once his wife's life was in danger and once the Dr explained that what inside her was not a viable baby, did he get perspective and clarity on the matter.  He expressed that he was thankful that the procedure could be performed at the time, as he had always pushed for legislation that made any abortion procedure, no matter how dire, to be made illegal.  Without the availability of this procedure, rather than mourn the loss of their child, he possibly would have been mourning the loss both of his child and wife.
 
2013-04-30 11:01:07 AM  

Nabb1: James!: Nabb1: Dr Dreidel: Nabb1: Then again, I know of at least one person here who said killing the child in such a circumstance was a good thing.

I'd say we let the doctors and potential parents decide what is and is not a "good thing" when it comes to their medical care. Save your morality for when the situation affects you.

So, you think that if the child survives the procedure, you should just snap its neck?  That's murder, not abortion.

Your passion on this is clouding your judgement.  No one is suggesting snapping a newborn's neck.

Gosnell has been accused of, among other things, severing the spinal cord of a baby that survived an abortion.  And, BTW, a certain FARKer in another thread told me he was just fine with that.


I know Gosnell was accused of that.  The accusation is based on what a patient in the waiting room thought they heard.
 
Displayed 50 of 216 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report