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(Mother Jones)   Republicans will buy greener light bulbs as long as you don't tell them they are good for the environment   (motherjones.com) divider line 180
    More: Stupid, environments, Wharton School of Business, Energy Star, global warming controversy, Drudge Report  
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2123 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Apr 2013 at 8:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 02:25:02 PM  

my alt's alt's alt: I never liked CFLs because of the mercury content. If you break one, you are supposed to leave the room/building and call hazmat to cut out the carpet/flooring in the area of the break and decontaminate the area. You are not supposed to throw them in the trash when they stop working due to the deplorably high mercury content.


Jesus Christ, where does this bullshiate come from?

Learn to read, read to learn:  http://www2.epa.gov/cfl/cleaning-broken-cfl-detailed-instructions

Compare and Contrast:

The average mercury content in aCFL is 3.5 milligrams (mg) - roughly the amount it would take to cover the tip of a ballpoint pen. Although there is currently no substance that can serve as an alternative to mercury to produce light in fluorescent lamps, some manufacturers have reduced the amount of mercury used inCFLs to as little as 1mg per bulb.

us.daylightcompany.com
Stop being so goddam concerned, and stop lying, and stop spreading lies.
 
2013-04-30 02:39:18 PM  

Deucednuisance: Jesus Christ, where does this bullshiate come from?


what gets me (as you've mentioned) is it's only the CFLs that people have this fear of - as if their 4 foot fluorescents in the garage or the metal halide security light didn't contain up to 100 times as much mercury.

i swear to zombie jesus that spite is the only source of inertia in way too many people's lives.
 
2013-04-30 02:40:36 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: I haven't tried LEDs yet, but the CFLs never last more then 2-3 years, some a lot less. So, while your calculations might be right based on the rated hours, I seriously doubt they are right when actually used.


Dude, is English not your first language?  Can you not read?  It was just demonstrated to you that the LED beats Incandescent in a single year!  Even if it only lasts a year, you're still ahead!  How can you be this impenetrable?

Slaves2Darkness: I have not tried LEDs yet, maybe they don't lie about how long they last, but based on experience I doubt it.


So, you relying on the experience with a product you've never actually used.

Dear lord.  I've been hooked, hard.
 
2013-04-30 02:46:35 PM  

heap: Deucednuisance: Jesus Christ, where does this bullshiate come from?

what gets me (as you've mentioned) is it's only the CFLs that people have this fear of - as if their 4 foot fluorescents in the garage or the metal halide security light didn't contain up to 100 times as much mercury.

i swear to zombie jesus that spite is the only source of inertia in way too many people's lives.


As Deucednuisance points out, a standard CFL has about 3.5 mg of mercury. Compare that to an older furnace thermostat, which contains 3-5 *grams* of mercury (which for those of you metrically challenged, is 3,000-5,000mg):

0.tqn.com

Yet you never hear of people being afraid of bumping their home's thermostat and making the whole state a hazmat site!!!!
 
2013-04-30 02:52:10 PM  
Every time I see these arguments I am reminded of when they phased out leaded gas or CFCs.  Same arguments just slightly rehashed.
 
2013-04-30 02:57:10 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: cman: They wont buy them out of spite. I felt the same way for quite some time.

I'd be suspicious that this was just a "look how stupid I am!" troll, but it's you.


Settle down, Beavis. I agree with Cman just shy of 0% of the time, but he's one of the rare few (on both sides of the spectrum) here that are candid and willing to admit their shortcomings. Unless you enjoy acting like an asshole.
 
2013-04-30 02:57:37 PM  

Deucednuisance: Slaves2Darkness: I haven't tried LEDs yet, but the CFLs never last more then 2-3 years, some a lot less. So, while your calculations might be right based on the rated hours, I seriously doubt they are right when actually used.

Dude, is English not your first language?  Can you not read?  It was just demonstrated to you that the LED beats Incandescent in a single year!  Even if it only lasts a year, you're still ahead!  How can you be this impenetrable?

Slaves2Darkness: I have not tried LEDs yet, maybe they don't lie about how long they last, but based on experience I doubt it.

So, you relying on the experience with a product you've never actually used.

Dear lord.  I've been hooked, hard.


SO far the dimmable LED bulbs I've put in my dining room have lasted longer than any incandescents or dimmable CFLs I'd used in them, with the added benefit of lowering the heat level.

Bonus points to me forgetting them for $10 on sale!

I'll be swapping out the CFLs for LEDs as those die and I get through all the free CFL bulbs I've gotten at from various events.

The only bulbs I buy now are night light and front porch ones.
 
2013-04-30 03:02:59 PM  

MrSteve007: As Deucednuisance points out, a standard CFL has about 3.5 mg of mercury. Compare that to an older furnace thermostat, which contains 3-5 *grams* of mercury (which for those of you metrically challenged, is 3,000-5,000mg):



media.tumblr.com

that's a whole lot of mercury!
 
2013-04-30 03:15:04 PM  

Deucednuisance: So, you relying on the experience with a product you've never actually used.

Dear lord.  I've been hooked, hard.


Maybe, maybe not.  The mindset is both common and topical.  He has a wall where every brick is a lie or a misrepresentation to defend the simple, silly prejudice that "green" = "bad".
 
2013-04-30 04:02:16 PM  

FlashHarry: well, their messiah, glenn beck, did chop down a tree for arbor day. this is the sort of contrarian, spite-your-face mentality we're talking about.


He totally ripped that off from Rush Limbaugh's TV show back in the mid-1990s, when he'd proudly hold in his "formerly nicotine-stained fingers" his long wooden pointer that he'd brag was made from "100% genuine rainforest wood."
 
2013-04-30 04:14:54 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: I haven't tried LEDs yet, but the CFLs never last more then 2-3 years, some a lot less. So, while your calculations might be right based on the rated hours, I seriously doubt they are right when actually used.


Um, wat?

Dude, math isn't that hard, you know. My calculations ARE right, and you can easily check them in about 30 seconds with a calculator. Ten bucks per year per bulb for the life of the bulb.  This has nothing to do with rated hours, or "actual use" whatever the hell that is. It's a simple fact.

In fact, none of my discussion had to do with "rated hours" The bulbs have a ten year warranty, so my numbers are correct for at least ten years, regardless of actual bulb performance.

Slaves2Darkness: Based on my observation, which I have cited repeatedly I have to replace CFL bulbs every 2-3 years, that significantly increases the costs of CFLs. I have not tried LEDs yet, maybe they don't lie about how long they last, but based on experience I doubt it.


So your experience with a completely different technology, sold by a completely different company that manufactures its products in a completely different country has led you to the conclusion that this technology just can't possibly be as good as they say?  And all that despite the fact that you haven't even tried it? Color me unimpressed.

My personal experience with LED lights matches up with  the other stories in this thread, as well as the claims of companies who sell them. I've owned dozens (likely more than a hundred)  of LED flashlights over the past ten years, and a handful of LED light bulbs for the past two years, and I have never had a single bulb burn out. Not one - not the led, not the controller circuit for the led, nothing. I'm closing on a new house in the near future, and with a few specific exceptions, every single bulb in the house is going to be LED
 
2013-04-30 04:21:12 PM  

meat0918: I'll be swapping out the CFLs for LEDs as those die and I get through all the free CFL bulbs I've gotten at from various events.


Don't wait, it's a waste of money. You can switch out now, or you can switch out after a year or two of paying three times more in energy costs

Switch them now, and give the CFLs to a friend who doesn't have any yet
 
2013-04-30 04:32:38 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Honestly I understand why you would not recycle, use inefficient light bulbs, and pollute. The "energy efficient" light bulbs are expensive, an incandescent bulb are cheap. While an "energy efficient" bulb costs four or five dollars, dims after two years and burns out in three even though it is "guaranteed" for five.

Those "energy efficient" bulbs are a rip off and no where need as effective as advertised.


When I moved out I bought a floor stand light from IKEA and put a fluorescent globe light in it.  That light is still working.  It's admittedly a little dim when first turned on, but after a couple of minutes it's perfectly fine to light the room it's in all on its own.  Sure, it's dimmer than a brand new bulb but it still works.

I bought it in August of 2003.

Your empty assertions are totally destroyed by my anecdotal sample of 1.
 
2013-04-30 05:10:05 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: meat0918: I'll be swapping out the CFLs for LEDs as those die and I get through all the free CFL bulbs I've gotten at from various events.

Don't wait, it's a waste of money. You can switch out now, or you can switch out after a year or two of paying three times more in energy costs

Switch them now, and give the CFLs to a friend who doesn't have any yet


How much am I looking at to replace a minimum of 8 bulbs, closer to 17.

The problem is the current fixtures use a shorter and thinner bulb than the smallest CFL I've found, and I haven't found CFL or LED ones that fit once the frosted glass is in place, and I really, REALLY don't want to replace the whole thing just to use a different bulb.
 
2013-04-30 05:10:43 PM  
Should be save, not cost to replace.  I really should do it though, I know
 
2013-04-30 05:38:24 PM  

MrSteve007: This is the first LED bulb I installed at work:
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 481x800]

It's the original CREE LR6, 6-inch can light retrofit. I installed this lamp in August of 2008. It so far has only lost 10% of its original lumens (I check it annually with a footcandle meter). Since this is an employee entrance, the light has run continuously, 24/7. That works out to be nearly 44,000 hours of operation to date.

This 12-watt light has the same lumen output of that of a 60-watt incandescent lamp, and nearly identical CRI and color temperature. At the time, it cost a very steep $65 (today, similar CREE models cost $19)

Had I kept using a 60-watt incandescent bulb, I would have had to replace it at least 11 times now, and I would have spent $264 in electricity (@ $0.10 kWh) over the past 5 years of operation

But instead, I spent $65 on the LED lamp and $53 in electricity. And now when I need to replace it, I can buy a similar LED lamp for $19.

You have to be an idiot to buy incandescent bulbs - both 5 years ago and even more so today. Or you simply like throwing money away.


LEDs are less than ten bux at Home Depot now, and 6 bux for a Hitlight on Amazon.  Pretty much no reason to use incandescents or CFLs at this point.  I just put all new lights on my whole property, including 10W, $20 landscape flood lighting to uplight all my trees.
 
2013-04-30 05:43:08 PM  
"This house will save you over $3000 a year in energy costs, even though it's priced the same as that house, because of all the new tech that was built into it."
"Sold"

or

"This house will save you over $3000 a year in energy costs, even though it's priced the same as that house, because of all the new tech that was built into it. And it's better for the environment as well, because it's made with 30% recycled materials and the tech will reduce the house's carbon footprint."
"F*ck that, I ain't buying it!"

I read the article, and I understand the methodology behind the data... but I still cannot fathom what the farking fark is going on in these peoples minds. Seriously. "I'm going to spend more of the money I busted my ass for just to spite the tree-hugging LIIIIIIBBBSS!!!"

WTF?
 
2013-04-30 06:17:02 PM  

Fiatlux: We could have sensibly transitioned from incandescence to LED based products, but for some reason we inserted this other 10 year or so period of marketing CLF's as the "Green" option. CFL's are much more efficient then incandescence of course, LEDs much more so, and don't involve all that tasty mercury winding up in land fills.


Question for you... how long have people been using these:
www.countynewscenter.com
In their homes, their shops, their businesses?
Did you know that they were invented in 1896, and that billions of them have already ended up in landfills?
Did you know that every single one of them also contains mercury, and always has?
Where was the b*tching for 116 year about that? Why only compact flourescents, and why now?
As a "designer" you should know better. As an alleged "liberal" you should be ashamed for not knowing better.
 
2013-04-30 06:49:04 PM  
They'd rather spend more money than help the environment. In fact, they'd rather spend more money to purposefully spite people who want to help the environment.

/I'm being serious.
//I have LED bulbs now. $17/bulb. Not too shabby. Will last me like 10 years, no mercury, and is the equivalent of a 75 watt bulb but uses only 7 watts (it says 9 on the bulb, but my killawatt says 7).
///Yay?!
 
2013-04-30 07:29:43 PM  
The best way to use LED lighting is to make sure that any new construction (home or commercial) is pre-wired for them (low-voltage DC), so that actual LED fixtures can be used without need of transformers in the "bulbs" - that's the part that eventually wears out, and it also wastes some electricity. Actual LEDs last practically forever. Who here has ever ― ever ― seen an actual burned-out LED element (not "bulb" or other unit in which the LED is part of something else, and that something else may have failed in the part that supplies electricity to the actual element) in their entire lives to date?

If you have fluorescent tube fixtures, get LED replacement tubes. Brighter (at least at first), instant-on, no flicker (thus no "fluorescent headaches"), better color temperature (pick from a wide range ― around 4400K appears to be the most neutral white, but warmer and cooler are available), less electricity not only from the tube itself but also because the ballast is no longer needed (they do need drivers [which use much less power than ballasts, and never "hum"], but most today have that built right in to the tube), and non-toxic (no mercury nor phophorus [everyone talks about the mercury, but phosphorus is among the most devastatingly toxic elements in the whole Periodic Table]). The main downsides are initial cost, they do dim over time (not too important in home lighting, but can have a regulatory impact in businesses and industrial uses ― it's best to get tubes that initially have far more lumens than you actually need, so that it'll take longer for them to dim down to below your regulatory threshold), and the fact that if these do take off, then there'll be a sudden glut of fluorescent tubes that still work heading to recycling and all too often to landfills.
 
2013-04-30 08:31:41 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Based on my observation, which I have cited repeatedly I have to replace CFL bulbs every 2-3 years, that significantly increases the costs of CFLs. I have not tried LEDs yet, maybe they don't lie about how long they last, but based on experience I doubt it.


Either you're buying terrible quality bulbs or you have something wrong with your power.  I replaced every bulb in my then-apartment (roughly 12 bulbs) with CFL 11 years ago, and in the decade I lived there, only one of those bulbs burned out.  I took them with me and am now using them in my house, where the remaining 11 bulbs are still going strong.

The only places I don't have CFLs are things like bathroom vanities that take odd bulb shapes.
 
2013-04-30 09:26:58 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: Slaves2Darkness: Based on my observation, which I have cited repeatedly I have to replace CFL bulbs every 2-3 years, that significantly increases the costs of CFLs. I have not tried LEDs yet, maybe they don't lie about how long they last, but based on experience I doubt it.

Either you're buying terrible quality bulbs or you have something wrong with your power.  I replaced every bulb in my then-apartment (roughly 12 bulbs) with CFL 11 years ago, and in the decade I lived there, only one of those bulbs burned out.  I took them with me and am now using them in my house, where the remaining 11 bulbs are still going strong.

The only places I don't have CFLs are things like bathroom vanities that take odd bulb shapes.


Do you mean like these?
 
2013-04-30 09:35:11 PM  

cman: Das ist Wahrheit

They wont buy them out of spite. I felt the same way for quite some time. Letting political decisions dictate how you buy crap is something that we Americans excel at.


Yeah I know what you mean.  It faking sucks that routine everyday stuff like where you buy your chicken sandwich or which light bulb you use have become de facto political statements. Some people just can't turn their political "switch" off, and it's easy to get sucked in by them. It's ridiculous.
 
2013-04-30 09:45:19 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: Slaves2Darkness: Based on my observation, which I have cited repeatedly I have to replace CFL bulbs every 2-3 years, that significantly increases the costs of CFLs. I have not tried LEDs yet, maybe they don't lie about how long they last, but based on experience I doubt it.

Either you're buying terrible quality bulbs or you have something wrong with your power.  I replaced every bulb in my then-apartment (roughly 12 bulbs) with CFL 11 years ago, and in the decade I lived there, only one of those bulbs burned out.  I took them with me and am now using them in my house, where the remaining 11 bulbs are still going strong.

The only places I don't have CFLs are things like bathroom vanities that take odd bulb shapes.


I think I've only had one CFL bulb burn out on me ever.
 
2013-04-30 10:06:33 PM  

Chummer45: Conservatives, on the other hand, are in this reactionary psychology where they'd just as soon throw a newspaper in the garbage rather than recycle it (all things being equal), if for no other reason than recycling is "liberal bullshiat."


CSB warning:  I've seen that happen, and I believe those were the exact words used.  The same guy also called in sick from work on earth day a couple years ago.  Next day he made a point of telling me that he spent the day with every engine he owned running all day long; both his trucks, his lawnmower, 4-wheel atv, etc just to celebrate earth day by burning some gas.  Then he asked me what I thought about that, as if it somehow was going to get me riled up.  He's a goddamn worthless tool, but I don't think they can fire him, as giving him verbal beatdowns in front of other people has become one of the simple pleasures for so many around the office over the past few years.
 
2013-05-01 01:17:31 AM  
My dad is a pretty conservative guy. Granted, he wouldn't vote for a Republican if they paid him, but he likes guns and riding his motorcycle without a helmet, and thinks illegal immigrants should be deported. And too many of his tax dollars go to welfare babies, dammit.

He replaced every light bulb in his house with compact flourescents years ago. Why? Because they last along time and save him a few bucks a month on his power bills.

He uses the recycling bin the city gave him, and bought a second to go with it. Why? Because it effectively gives him a second trash pickup every week, albeit for only certain types of trash.

He bought a pickup with a V-6 engine and drives like a little old lady. Why? Because gas is expensive, man.

I could probably think of a few more things, but I think I've made my point. It's actually harder to be a jackass about this stuff than not. You idiot Republicans aren't just hurting yourselves, but you *are* hurting yourselves. Stop it.
 
2013-05-01 02:35:00 AM  

Majick Thise: I know not all Repubs are that dumb but many will base their decision like that. Somebody has to keep the energy companies afloat, might as well be the dumbasses.


Thanks Libtards for the energy-saving bulbs with MERCURY IN THEM!!!!
 
2013-05-01 02:54:13 AM  
I wonder what would happen to Republicans if Obama started telling them the HAD to own guns, because it was good for the country?
 
2013-05-01 10:40:44 AM  

cretinbob: I wonder what would happen to Republicans if Obama started telling them the HAD to own guns, because it was good for the country?


I would be willing to buy a gun to see that reaction.
 
2013-05-01 11:22:44 AM  

Lawnchair: The thing I love is the conservatives I know getting all concern-troll about the mercury in CFLs as the reason they can't consider switching.Then, you go into their garages and basements and you've got a half-dozen good old T40 Shop Lights (the long fluorescent tubes). One older T40 bulb has as much mercury as 100 or more modern CFLs. When you bring this up, they don't seem to see the issue.


rewind2846: Question for you... how long have people been using these:
[flourescent tubes.jpg]
In their homes, their shops, their businesses?  Did you know that they were invented in 1896, and that billions of them have already ended up in landfills? Did you know that every single one of them also contains mercury, and always has? Where was the b*tching for 116 year about that? Why only compact fluorescent, and why now?


An excellent point you both raise. Here, I'll let one of our local hardcore teabagger wingnuts answer that:

armoredbulldozer: Thanks Libtards for the energy-saving bulbs with MERCURY IN THEM!!!!


Not much of a direct answer, I know. But consider the portion in bold, then scroll up and read the posts further upthread about spiting liberals, "if they're fer it I'm agin it" etc It really is just a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face because Algore is fat
 
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