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(New Europe)   The new quarterly report on the current economic situation for Greece tells us that the EU is doing the right thing   (neurope.eu) divider line 34
    More: Followup, European Commission, Greece, labour market, civil services, Greek Parliament  
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1192 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Apr 2013 at 8:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 08:32:53 AM  
Nothing says helping Greece out like making the country so poor that it will be permanently dependent on the good graces of the EU forever.

www.tradingeconomics.com
 
2013-04-30 09:05:21 AM  

RexTalionis: Nothing says helping Greece out like making the country so poor that it will be permanently dependent on the good graces of the EU forever.

[www.tradingeconomics.com image 710x300]


I love how the scale on the graph is manipulated to make it look like a 14% decline over four years is like a 95% drop.
 
2013-04-30 09:14:16 AM  
So is it affordable for americans to vacation there yet?  Because tickets to England are still about $1200
 
2013-04-30 09:25:57 AM  

meanmutton: RexTalionis: Nothing says helping Greece out like making the country so poor that it will be permanently dependent on the good graces of the EU forever.

[www.tradingeconomics.com image 710x300]

I love how the scale on the graph is manipulated to make it look like a 14% decline over four years is like a 95% drop.


Maybe it was commisioned by the same people that did this beauty:

apple.copydesk.org
 
2013-04-30 10:04:34 AM  
Oh? The right thing? Is the Greek economy growing again? Hiring more workers maybe? TFA seems to say precious little about that.
 
2013-04-30 10:14:44 AM  

Arkanaut: Oh? The right thing? Is the Greek economy growing again? Hiring more workers maybe? TFA seems to say precious little about that.


The Greek GDP shrank 6% in the 4th quarter of 2013, which makes it the 18th straight quarter of contraction.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-14/greek-gdp-shrank-6-in-fourt h- quarter-amid-jobless-crisis.html
 
2013-04-30 10:16:28 AM  

RexTalionis: Nothing says helping Greece out like making the country so poor that it will be permanently dependent on the good graces of the EU forever.

[www.tradingeconomics.com image 710x300]


Is that using the official (and completely fabricated) statistics or the actual ones?

I'm only asking as the democratically elected Greek government used Goldman Sachs to turn any official statistics into a complete work of fiction.
 
2013-04-30 10:24:30 AM  
Doing the right thing by helping fascists get elected?  Great!
 
2013-04-30 10:43:58 AM  

FarkedOver: Doing the right thing by helping fascists get elected?  Great!


I would think that with the axing of 15,000 state workers the current government is going to be seeing an election soon.  Syriza (The "Radical" Left) is poised to win the next election I think, especially as wages shrink further.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:45 AM  

Arkanaut: Oh? The right thing? Is the Greek economy growing again? Hiring more workers maybe? TFA seems to say precious little about that.


Greece is doing better than it would if it left the EU, in the opinion of TFA and Greek leaders, apparently. So, yes, relatively speaking their economy is doing better than the alternative.
 
2013-04-30 10:59:17 AM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: meanmutton: RexTalionis: Nothing says helping Greece out like making the country so poor that it will be permanently dependent on the good graces of the EU forever.

[www.tradingeconomics.com image 710x300]

I love how the scale on the graph is manipulated to make it look like a 14% decline over four years is like a 95% drop.

Maybe it was commisioned by the same people that did this beauty:


Both graphs are ridiculous, but agree that the tax cut one is hysterical too.
 
2013-04-30 11:01:09 AM  

Famous Thamas: I would think that with the axing of 15,000 state workers the current government is going to be seeing an election soon. Syriza (The "Radical" Left) is poised to win the next election I think, especially as wages shrink further.


Let's hope Syriza can pull it off.  The fact that a sizable amount of the police are members of Golden Dawn is creepy.  There's videos of a Golden Dawn rally that echo back to Triumph of the Will, with the Sieg Heils and everything.
 
2013-04-30 11:11:57 AM  

FarkedOver: Famous Thamas: I would think that with the axing of 15,000 state workers the current government is going to be seeing an election soon. Syriza (The "Radical" Left) is poised to win the next election I think, especially as wages shrink further.

Let's hope Syriza can pull it off.  The fact that a sizable amount of the police are members of Golden Dawn is creepy.  There's videos of a Golden Dawn rally that echo back to Triumph of the Will, with the Sieg Heils and everything.


So the options are between Golden Dawn and Syriza?

And people think that US politics are polarized.
 
2013-04-30 11:14:54 AM  

meanmutton: FarkedOver: Famous Thamas: I would think that with the axing of 15,000 state workers the current government is going to be seeing an election soon. Syriza (The "Radical" Left) is poised to win the next election I think, especially as wages shrink further.

Let's hope Syriza can pull it off.  The fact that a sizable amount of the police are members of Golden Dawn is creepy.  There's videos of a Golden Dawn rally that echo back to Triumph of the Will, with the Sieg Heils and everything.

So the options are between Golden Dawn and Syriza?

And people think that US politics are polarized.


When the capitalist government has consistently farked workers, people will look for answers outside of capitalism.   When people are losing their jobs, children are passing out in school because of lack of meals, people committing suicide.... etc... i could see that radicalizing someone.  I don't blame them.

/Socialist.
 
2013-04-30 11:15:46 AM  

Famous Thamas: FarkedOver: Doing the right thing by helping fascists get elected?  Great!

I would think that with the axing of 15,000 state workers the current government is going to be seeing an election soon.  Syriza (The "Radical" Left) is poised to win the next election I think, especially as wages shrink further.


Why the quotes around "radical"?  That's the word they use to describe themselves:  The "R" in Greek is "P", which stands for "Ριζοσπαστικής", which means "radical".   They include groups which are Maoist, Trotskyist, and a range of Socialist parties.
 
2013-04-30 11:21:28 AM  

FarkedOver: meanmutton: FarkedOver: Famous Thamas: I would think that with the axing of 15,000 state workers the current government is going to be seeing an election soon. Syriza (The "Radical" Left) is poised to win the next election I think, especially as wages shrink further.

Let's hope Syriza can pull it off.  The fact that a sizable amount of the police are members of Golden Dawn is creepy.  There's videos of a Golden Dawn rally that echo back to Triumph of the Will, with the Sieg Heils and everything.

So the options are between Golden Dawn and Syriza?

And people think that US politics are polarized.

When the capitalist government has consistently farked workers, people will look for answers outside of capitalism.   When people are losing their jobs, children are passing out in school because of lack of meals, people committing suicide.... etc... i could see that radicalizing someone.  I don't blame them.

/Socialist.


There certainly are reasons for radicalizing, no doubt, but it's amusing to me that in the US people think we have these ridiculously super extreme parties but then you go to Europe and see actual Neo-Nazis parties holding government positions along side Maoist political parties.

We have NOTHING on Europe when it comes to extreme politics.
 
2013-04-30 11:23:30 AM  

meanmutton: There certainly are reasons for radicalizing, no doubt, but it's amusing to me that in the US people think we have these ridiculously super extreme parties but then you go to Europe and see actual Neo-Nazis parties holding government positions along side Maoist political parties.

We have NOTHING on Europe when it comes to extreme politics.


No doubt about it.  I mean when people get upset in Greece they start launching Molotov cocktails at the police and parliment.  Europe has much more class consciousness than Americans do, and the resolve to actually do something about.
 
2013-04-30 11:41:16 AM  
This is a pretty recent and pretty depressing article about the state of Greece and how wonderful austerity really is!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/world/europe/more-children-in-gree ce -start-to-go-hungry.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
2013-04-30 11:41:45 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Arkanaut: Oh? The right thing? Is the Greek economy growing again? Hiring more workers maybe? TFA seems to say precious little about that.

Greece is doing better than it would if it left the EU, in the opinion of TFA and Greek leaders, apparently. So, yes, relatively speaking their economy is doing better than the alternative.


...who are all noted for their excellent judgment...
 
2013-04-30 01:17:50 PM  

Arkanaut: Debeo Summa Credo: Arkanaut: Oh? The right thing? Is the Greek economy growing again? Hiring more workers maybe? TFA seems to say precious little about that.

Greece is doing better than it would if it left the EU, in the opinion of TFA and Greek leaders, apparently. So, yes, relatively speaking their economy is doing better than the alternative.

...who are all noted for their excellent judgment...


Well, the Greek people vote for their leaders. And the only alternative to austerity is leaving the euro.

Which would you choose? So far, the Greeks have chosen austerity and the euro.
 
2013-04-30 01:21:02 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Arkanaut: Debeo Summa Credo: Arkanaut: Oh? The right thing? Is the Greek economy growing again? Hiring more workers maybe? TFA seems to say precious little about that.

Greece is doing better than it would if it left the EU, in the opinion of TFA and Greek leaders, apparently. So, yes, relatively speaking their economy is doing better than the alternative.

...who are all noted for their excellent judgment...

Well, the Greek people vote for their leaders. And the only alternative to austerity is leaving the euro.

Which would you choose? So far, the Greeks have chosen austerity and the euro.


They've been extorted into keeping the euro.  People are already dying, jobs are not plentiful.  This is a good scenario for the people to elect a socialist government, leave the euro, start public works projects and collectivize farm lands to actually feed the people.  It sure as hell beats starving just to pay off the Germans.
 
2013-04-30 02:08:26 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: Arkanaut: Debeo Summa Credo: Arkanaut: Oh? The right thing? Is the Greek economy growing again? Hiring more workers maybe? TFA seems to say precious little about that.

Greece is doing better than it would if it left the EU, in the opinion of TFA and Greek leaders, apparently. So, yes, relatively speaking their economy is doing better than the alternative.

...who are all noted for their excellent judgment...

Well, the Greek people vote for their leaders. And the only alternative to austerity is leaving the euro.

Which would you choose? So far, the Greeks have chosen austerity and the euro.

They've been extorted into keeping the euro.  People are already dying, jobs are not plentiful.  This is a good scenario for the people to elect a socialist government, leave the euro, start public works projects and collectivize farm lands to actually feed the people.  It sure as hell beats starving just to pay off the Germans.


They've been "extorted"? What the hell are you talking about?
They've decided, so far, to absorb short term pain for the long term benefit of being in the euro.

And "collectivize farm land", seriously? Wow.
 
2013-04-30 02:15:30 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: They've been "extorted"? What the hell are you talking about?
They've decided, so far, to absorb short term pain for the long term benefit of being in the euro.

And "collectivize farm land", seriously? Wow.


Yes.  Seize the land from wealthy owners and use it for the good of the people.  I have no problems with that.
 
2013-04-30 02:48:30 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: They've been "extorted"? What the hell are you talking about?
They've decided, so far, to absorb short term pain for the long term benefit of being in the euro.

And "collectivize farm land", seriously? Wow.

Yes.  Seize the land from wealthy owners and use it for the good of the people.  I have no problems with that.


Great idea. Hopefully it will work out as well as it did in the Soviet Union and China.
 
2013-04-30 02:56:10 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: They've been "extorted"? What the hell are you talking about?
They've decided, so far, to absorb short term pain for the long term benefit of being in the euro.

And "collectivize farm land", seriously? Wow.

Yes.  Seize the land from wealthy owners and use it for the good of the people.  I have no problems with that.

Great idea. Hopefully it will work out as well as it did in the Soviet Union and China.


As opposed to just letting people starve because they can't afford it?  Ok.
 
2013-04-30 04:42:48 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: They've been "extorted"? What the hell are you talking about?
They've decided, so far, to absorb short term pain for the long term benefit of being in the euro.

And "collectivize farm land", seriously? Wow.

Yes.  Seize the land from wealthy owners and use it for the good of the people.  I have no problems with that.

Great idea. Hopefully it will work out as well as it did in the Soviet Union and China.

As opposed to just letting people starve because they can't afford it?  Ok.


Or, collectivize and cause millions more to starve. Sort of like what happened in Russia and China.

It doesn't work.
 
2013-04-30 04:44:50 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Or, collectivize and cause millions more to starve. Sort of like what happened in Russia and China.

It doesn't work.


Or privatize and let about 200 million people go hungry like in India during the 1990s.  Profits before people, we get it.
 
2013-04-30 04:59:13 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Or, collectivize and cause millions more to starve. Sort of like what happened in Russia and China.

It doesn't work.


"...in India the democratic capitalist "experiment" since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the "colossal, wholly failed...experiment" of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since, in India alone. The "criminal indictment" of the "democratic capitalist experiment" becomes harsher still if we turn to its effects after the fall of Communism: millions of corpses in Russia, to take one case, as Russia followed the confident prescription of the World Bank that "Countries that liberalise rapidly and extensively turn around more quickly [than those that do not]," returning to something like what it had been before World War I, a picture familiar throughout the "third world." But "you can't make an omelette without broken eggs," as Stalin would have said. The indictment becomes far harsher if we consider these vast areas that remained under Western tutelage, yielding a truly "colossal" record of skeletons and "absolutely futile, pointless and inexplicable suffering". The indictment takes on further force when we add to the account the countries devastated by the direct assaults of Western power, and its clients, during the same years."  --Chomsky

So take those rose colored glasses off and take a long look in the mirror.  "Western", "free market" or "capitalist" countries have just as much, if not more, blood on their hands.
 
2013-04-30 05:19:09 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: Or, collectivize and cause millions more to starve. Sort of like what happened in Russia and China.

It doesn't work.

"...in India the democratic capitalist "experiment" since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the "colossal, wholly failed...experiment" of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since, in India alone. The "criminal indictment" of the "democratic capitalist experiment" becomes harsher still if we turn to its effects after the fall of Communism: millions of corpses in Russia, to take one case, as Russia followed the confident prescription of the World Bank that "Countries that liberalise rapidly and extensively turn around more quickly [than those that do not]," returning to something like what it had been before World War I, a picture familiar throughout the "third world." But "you can't make an omelette without broken eggs," as Stalin would have said. The indictment becomes far harsher if we consider these vast areas that remained under Western tutelage, yielding a truly "colossal" record of skeletons and "absolutely futile, pointless and inexplicable suffering". The indictment takes on further force when we add to the account the countries devastated by the direct assaults of Western power, and its clients, during the same years."  --Chomsky

So take those rose colored glasses off and take a long look in the mirror.  "Western", "free market" or "capitalist" countries have just as much, if not more, blood on their hands.


Completely incorrect. But please feel free to pay attention to Chomsky and ignore reality and history.
 
2013-04-30 05:20:26 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Completely incorrect. But please feel free to pay attention to Chomsky and ignore reality and history.


Good argument.  Nothing bad ever happens under capitalist societies.  I was foolish to think so.
 
2013-04-30 07:35:38 PM  

RexTalionis: Nothing says helping Greece out like making the country so poor that it will be permanently dependent on the good graces of the EU forever.

[www.tradingeconomics.com image 710x300]


What does that graph show in your mind?

I'm curious. Because I am sure you're not seeing how Greece having insane growth whilst in the EU, and today not being poorer than they were in 2004 despite how badly things are farked up.
 
2013-04-30 07:40:27 PM  
FarkedOver: 

They've been extorted into keeping the euro.  People are already dying, jobs are not plentiful.  This is a good scenario for the people to elect a socialist government, leave the euro, start public works projects and collectivize farm lands to actually feed the people.  It sure as hell beats starving just to pay off the Germans.

Dying of what?

AFAIK essential medecine is still being delivered to Greece even if they don't pay their bills. And surely there's soup kitchens etc.

Dying seems a bit dramatic.
 
2013-04-30 08:52:35 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: Completely incorrect. But please feel free to pay attention to Chomsky and ignore reality and history.

Good argument.  Nothing bad ever happens under capitalist societies.  I was foolish to think so.


No, you were foolish to think there is any better alternative to capitalism.
 
2013-04-30 10:03:58 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: Completely incorrect. But please feel free to pay attention to Chomsky and ignore reality and history.

Good argument.  Nothing bad ever happens under capitalist societies.  I was foolish to think so.


What good has come out of communism?
 
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