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(Examiner)   "All autistic kids are atheists and atheism is a form of autism." No word on what religion Jenny McCarthy practices   (examiner.com) divider line 247
    More: Asinine, Jenny McCarthy, underdevelopments, hughes, autism, exercises, faiths  
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14811 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2013 at 9:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 11:11:39 AM  

Silly_Sot: AverageAmericanGuy: He has a point. When you remove emotion from the equation and let logic take charge, belief in deities seems weird and incongruent with a universe predicated on examinable physical laws.

But humans are not purely logical creatures. Along with our logical minds, we are burdened with our emotional mind as well. Except in the case of autistic children, of course. They are emotionally crippled, for better or worse. As far as atheism goes, for the better, obviously.

Only if those "examinable physical laws" are strictly determinative, which they are not. I'm autistic (properly diagnosed, not one of those self-diagnosed fakers) and am still religious. I'm not an Evangelical Christian, Wahabbi Muslim, or other fundie, but I am a member of an organized Church. My choice, my faith. I could be wrong, and the atheists could be right, but I don't lose sleep over that. It's only the truly stupid and egotistical who get their panties severely in the bunch over the idea that someone else might have a different belief about God than ones own belief. What will God do with the unbelievers? That's His prerogative, not mine. If He wants, he can give everybody a Mulligan. It doesn't have to be fair, He's God.  Yes, it sucks, but reality sucks whether you're a believer or an atheist. I'll live my suckage, you'll live your suckage. I'll ask God to give you a freebie, so long as you're not harming others. Why not? In my little religious shared narrative, nobody actually deserves salvation, anyway, so there's nothing at all wrong with hoping God will let in just about everybody (maybe with a few selfish exceptions for pedophiles, murderers, dictators, etc.)

In my own particular case, adopting religion has improved my behavior and treatment of others. I must sadly admit that there are people of my acquaintance who probably would have been better off being atheists--and this would include the state/fate of their immortal souls.

No, this has not been a sophisticated troll. It's just one of those rare occasions when a reasonable and religious person pipes up to remind the extremist fanatics of all stripes that we do exist, and that we pretty much just wish to be left to our lives while you are left to yours. Our flavor of God is expected to be fully Just and fully Merciful, thus, He will sort it all out correctly, but we don't have the right to dictate to Him how He is going to do it.


That goes both ways as well. I'm an atheist and consider the idea of religion to be silly, but I consider religion to be a logical choice in light of life's nonsense. I wish I could believe, but nothing has convinced me that any religion is true.

I think moderate atheists/religious people are starting to get fed up with the extreme athiest/fundamentalist voices which tend to be the loudest.
 
2013-04-30 11:12:00 AM  

jonny_q: Welp... on one hand, I'm happy that this thread didn't go all wharrgarbl like most of these threads.

On the other hand, I feel like I found the weird part of Fark and I need some help finding my way back to regular Fark.


You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike.
 
2013-04-30 11:13:08 AM  

It's pronounced pacKAGE: So if autism is a form of atheism, and atheism is a religion, then religion is a form of autism!

/mind blown


Religion = Superstition + $$$$$
 
2013-04-30 11:13:55 AM  

xoxo: I googled "aspergers" once because I suspect my inept supervisor has it. One of the search results was a link to some Christian forum discussing whether autism was a form on demonic possession. I feel so so sorry for any autistic child belonging to any of those religeous freaks.


My mom took me to a Pentecostal church because I was having "fits".
 
2013-04-30 11:14:18 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: probesport: AverageAmericanGuy: My kid loves church but doesn't get the whole god is there but you can't see him thing.

Can he see the wind? Can he see infrared light? Are television signals visible as they travel over wires?

With the right equipment, yes. Still a no on the God front, unless you have a super Godometer 9000, we can't afford such luxuries here.

That's the problem. The 'God-shaped hole' doesn't exist and so he can't wrap his head around the life-changing experience salvation is for non-autistic people.

In a way his faith will need to be stronger for he believes without seeing.


Faith stronger = Brain weaker
With parenting like yours, he'll be there in no time.
I suggest keeping him out of public schools and teaching him with the only book anyone needs to learn about.
 
2013-04-30 11:19:06 AM  
This is the thread where people find a random weirdo  with a farked up opinion about something scientific, then mock them by citing their own ignorance of the subject.
 
2013-04-30 11:22:06 AM  
And, for the divide-by-zero moment of the day:

http://autisticsymphony.com/jca.html
 
2013-04-30 11:22:20 AM  

jso2897: Dead for Tax Reasons: i guess god gave autistic kids a disease so they wouldn't believe in him then?

Well, that's pretty much the way He rolls.
Don't be hatin'.


So if god makes it so that it's physically impossible to believe in him and then sends you to hell for not believing in him then he just sounds like a total asshole.
 
2013-04-30 11:23:08 AM  
But Islam is a 'religion of peace' and you're just a hater if you have a problem with it. This is what you get with nice moderate Islam right?

I'll say it again, Islam is currently the most repugnant religion on the planet and considering they have to compete with the Catholics for that title, that's really saying something.
 
2013-04-30 11:23:21 AM  

doubled99: This is the thread where people find a random weirdo  with a farked up opinion about something scientific, then mock them by citing their own ignorance of the subject.




Besides you, how many Farkers are neurologists?
 
2013-04-30 11:29:45 AM  

Somacandra: I'm buying stock in popcorn for this one.


I've got a monopoly on butter.  We should talk.
 
2013-04-30 11:33:05 AM  

van1ty: Technically if you haven't considered the question of God then you are by definition an atheist....


lh5.googleusercontent.com
I wonder if it's possible to be an agnostic and an atheist at the same time?
 
2013-04-30 11:34:12 AM  

doubled99: This is the thread where people find a random weirdo  with a farked up opinion about something scientific, then mock them by citing their own ignorance of the subject.


Welcome to the entire internets.
 
2013-04-30 11:34:18 AM  

ausfahrk: True story:  When I was 12, I was called into the principal's office at school and told that my older cousin had committed suicide.  He was the product of a normal family who attended the Lutheran church in our small town, but he took his life at the end of a two-year slide that started with him renouncing his faith in God, in which he participated in sins and excesses of increasingly disturbing character.  Some of these included smoking marihuana, taking the innocence of his girlfriend, and stealing money from his parents to spend at the gambling parlour.  When he finally killed himself, I actually felt relieved because I knew it was the end of the suffering he'd put us through, even though he was likely headed to damnation.  Upon dissection of the corpse, they found that he had a developmental defect in his brain that caused him to be missing a large portion of his forebrain, and I can only imagine that it was related to the "area of faith" mentioned in the article.


8/10 for hitting just the right tone of concern and maintaining it until the end.
 
2013-04-30 11:34:39 AM  

randomjsa: I'll say it again,


No doubt.
 
2013-04-30 11:35:06 AM  

Silly_Sot: AverageAmericanGuy: He has a point. When you remove emotion from the equation and let logic take charge, belief in deities seems weird and incongruent with a universe predicated on examinable physical laws.

But humans are not purely logical creatures. Along with our logical minds, we are burdened with our emotional mind as well. Except in the case of autistic children, of course. They are emotionally crippled, for better or worse. As far as atheism goes, for the better, obviously.

Only if those "examinable physical laws" are strictly determinative, which they are not. I'm autistic (properly diagnosed, not one of those self-diagnosed fakers) and am still religious. I'm not an Evangelical Christian, Wahabbi Muslim, or other fundie, but I am a member of an organized Church. My choice, my faith. I could be wrong, and the atheists could be right, but I don't lose sleep over that. It's only the truly stupid and egotistical who get their panties severely in the bunch over the idea that someone else might have a different belief about God than ones own belief. What will God do with the unbelievers? That's His prerogative, not mine. If He wants, he can give everybody a Mulligan. It doesn't have to be fair, He's God.  Yes, it sucks, but reality sucks whether you're a believer or an atheist. I'll live my suckage, you'll live your suckage. I'll ask God to give you a freebie, so long as you're not harming others. Why not? In my little religious shared narrative, nobody actually deserves salvation, anyway, so there's nothing at all wrong with hoping God will let in just about everybody (maybe with a few selfish exceptions for pedophiles, murderers, dictators, etc.)

In my own particular case, adopting religion has improved my behavior and treatment of others. I must sadly admit that there are people of my acquaintance who probably would have been better off being atheists--and this would include the state/fate of their immortal souls.

No, this has not been a sophisticated trol ...


I for the most part agree with you. I spent a long time trying to rationalize the concept of a kind and loving god with one who would sentence someone to hell over moral events that they had no way of confirming. My only conclusion, other then a lack of god, was that such a deity would wait until each soul was untethered from worldly shackles/concerns and able to comprehend all of creation. If that soul is still consumed with hate, anger, fear, then he does the only thing that a kind and loving deity could do, he mercifully sends the soul that so hates existence into oblivion. No pain, no suffering, just nothingness.

/That is the quick and dirty version. I can go far more in depth with the philosophical/Theistic underpinnings if someone wishes.
 
2013-04-30 11:36:45 AM  

ciberido: 8/10 for hitting just the right tone of concern and maintaining it until the end.


Almost everyone is giving this guy high marks but he got almost no bites.

Taking the word troll back to its roots in fishing ... if a guy is trolling and comes home with no fish then he was a failure. No matter how good he looked doing it.

I give him a 2/10.
 
2013-04-30 11:36:55 AM  

Space Station Wagon: ausfahrk: True story:  When I was 12, I was called into the principal's office at school and told that my older cousin had committed suicide.  He was the product of a normal family who attended the Lutheran church in our small town, but he took his life at the end of a two-year slide that started with him renouncing his faith in God, in which he participated in sins and excesses of increasingly disturbing character.  Some of these included smoking marihuana, taking the innocence of his girlfriend, and stealing money from his parents to spend at the gambling parlour.  When he finally killed himself, I actually felt relieved because I knew it was the end of the suffering he'd put us through, even though he was likely headed to damnation.  Upon dissection of the corpse, they found that he had a developmental defect in his brain that caused him to be missing a large portion of his forebrain, and I can only imagine that it was related to the "area of faith" mentioned in the article.

So god made him and then gave him a tumor, which caused him to leave the faith, sin and they kill himself condemning him to eternal damnation.
God is kind of a dick.


3.bp.blogspot.com
Are you sure it was a tumor?
 
2013-04-30 11:37:27 AM  

randomjsa: But Islam is a 'religion of peace' and you're just a hater if you have a problem with it. This is what you get with nice moderate Islam right?

I'll say it again, Islam is currently the most repugnant religion on the planet and considering they have to compete with the Catholics for that title, that's really saying something.


Did you hear a line on "Homeland?"
 "So you're a religious person and a torturer.  What are you, catholic?"
 
2013-04-30 11:44:13 AM  

hej: ModernPrimitive01: so vaccinations cause atheism then?

Yes.
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 333x500]


Are those ..... noodly appendages?
 
2013-04-30 11:45:57 AM  

buckler: jonny_q: Welp... on one hand, I'm happy that this thread didn't go all wharrgarbl like most of these threads.

On the other hand, I feel like I found the weird part of Fark and I need some help finding my way back to regular Fark.

You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike.


> TURN OFF LAMP
 
2013-04-30 11:47:23 AM  

ciberido: hej: ModernPrimitive01: so vaccinations cause atheism then?

Yes.
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 333x500]

Are those ..... noodly appendages?


rAmen.
 
2013-04-30 11:48:19 AM  
I am a devout Methodist, and my autistic son goes to Sunday School every week, but I don't look for him to be religious when he grows up. It just seems like he isn't going to be able to grasp an abstract concept like the Trinity. I'm not even sure I grasp it. He asks a lot of questions about religion (mostly when trying to delay going to sleep at night) but I make sure to tell him that everyone doesn't believe the same thing, and some people don't believe anything, and that's okay. It appears to me that even if one was a hell fire and brimstone fundamentalist, one would assume God gives autistics a pass, seeing as how He is the one who made them so literal-minded.
 
2013-04-30 11:51:12 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Stories like yours gives me a lot of hope. We know that people are lining up at the government's behest to get their kids vaccinated for access to school and summer camps. If autism is indeed treatable, that's one fewer reason to avoid getting the shots.

Obviously not all cases of autism are caused by such things. Most cases are difficult to pin on any single event. But treatments like your nephew is in could be the difference between a life of solitude and one of joy.


He's very lucky that there is a really good autism school in Indy.  It's called Cornerstone if anyone is interested.
 
2013-04-30 11:51:46 AM  
I'm pretty sure I've dealt with a lot of autistic Christians, and that we were attacked on 9/11/2001 by autistic Moozlams.
 
2013-04-30 11:54:36 AM  
Teach them the love of god.
ts2.mm.bing.net
Even if you have to beat it into them.
 
2013-04-30 11:54:59 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Revek: AverageAmericanGuy: Carn: AverageAmericanGuy: He has a point. When you remove emotion from the equation and let logic take charge, belief in deities seems weird and incongruent with a universe predicated on examinable physical laws.

But humans are not purely logical creatures. Along with our logical minds, we are burdened with our emotional mind as well. Except in the case of autistic children, of course. They are emotionally crippled, for better or worse. As far as atheism goes, for the better, obviously.

Autistic kids aren't emotionally crippled man.  My nephew is autistic, but he loves his sister and mother and grandparents and uncles, tells jokes (that are amazingly clever and funny for a 6 year old), loves robots, mario and superheroes, and in many ways is pretty much a normal kid.  He's got issues, but he's gotten way better with treatment and a huge part of that has been diet and supplements.  Autism for some may be an almost completely treatable condition.

Well, it's a spectrum disease. There are many with mild autism who are likely as not to find salvation in Jesus. And there are those who would not accept the existence of God if their souls depended on it.

I'm glad to hear your nephew is on the mild end of the spectrum.

My kid loves church but doesn't get the whole god is there but you can't see him thing.

Can he see the wind? Can he see infrared light? Are television signals visible as they travel over wires?


No but he can see the pictures and has a understanding of electricity which does have observable phenomena.  He also enjoys pointing the remote at the webcam and looking at the light coming from the remote.
 
2013-04-30 11:56:34 AM  

Ennuipoet: [www.imglols.com image 570x423]

Don't tell the Fundies this, they will be trying to cure atheists like the "cure" teh gheys.


ummmm.... they been trying that for thousands of years.
 
2013-04-30 12:07:30 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Revek: AverageAmericanGuy: Carn: AverageAmericanGuy: blah blah blah
Can he see the wind? Can he see infrared light? Are television signals visible as they travel over wires?



Ignorance at it's best!
/..... the wrold stops existing once I turn my back too!
 
2013-04-30 12:11:25 PM  

HAMMERTOE: How likely/ unlikely is it that an autistic child will have an imaginary friend of any kind?

Correlation?


As an HFA I can say, fairly unlikely. Cognition of something that isn't there can be a difficult concept for an autistic youth.

All of any group doesn't do the same thing, ever. Broad sweeping statements are indicative of a lack of dynamic thinking capacity. My personal religious beliefs would have the author of the article in a right tizzy, which would be a lot of fun to watch.
 
2013-04-30 12:13:14 PM  

Toggles: Given the vast size and scope of the known universe, from the smallest of atomic particles to the largest of the galactic superclusters. Being a person can be a wicked mind trip. Even at human scales, a planet with 6 billion people can be overwhelming. Especially when you consider that most of those 6 billion people are mean and have no regard for you at all. and a significant number of them even want you dead.

As a way to cope with it all, talking with an imaginary friend is cool with me. It is a perfectly valid strategy for dealing with the universe, and I have used it myself once in a while. It is even okay to form "imaginary friend club" with like minded people. Perhaps your club can do something to better the community.

But remember the rule: Don't make me talk to your imaginary friend, and I wont make you talk to mine.


it is humbling to consider the scale and uncaring grandeur of the universe.

I also remember that, as awesome as the distant stars may be, I'm made from the same building blocks. ashes and dust, all the same. I am as significant as the stars, as are you.
 
2013-04-30 12:16:40 PM  

ciberido: van1ty: Technically if you haven't considered the question of God then you are by definition an atheist....

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 250x250]
I wonder if it's possible to be an agnostic and an atheist at the same time?


Yes.. agnostic is from the greek word for knowledge. So an agnostic is someone who is not claiming absolute knowledge.

Theist regards gods. Atheist means without gods, theist means with gods.

I can be an atheist (no belief in a god) and still be agnostic (not claiming to have absolute knowledge of a lack of gods).
 
2013-04-30 12:17:43 PM  

duffblue: Atheism is a logical fallacy.


Like Faith isn't?

(PS: Atheism makes no affirmative claim, and therefore is not a logical proposition at all, so your assertion is false on its face.  Mine, however, is not, for the opposite reason.)
 
2013-04-30 12:22:22 PM  

duffblue: Atheism is a logical fallacy.


Oh come on, you can't just leave us with that. If you're going to troll, have the courtesy to put some freakin' meat on the hook.
 
2013-04-30 12:22:29 PM  

ScaryBottles: Sadly they have yet to discover what turns people into potatoheads.


More research is needed, but It is apparently highly correlated with living in Mojave in a Winnebago.

Getting slobbering drunk at the Palomino is also highly suspect.

Thirty days in San Bernardino is recommended as a corrective.

(NB: there's only one shower, but it don't apply to Bobby.)
 
2013-04-30 12:31:52 PM  

Deucednuisance: duffblue: Atheism is a logical fallacy.

Like Faith isn't?

(PS: Atheism makes no affirmative claim, and therefore is not a logical proposition at all, so your assertion is false on its face.  Mine, however, is not, for the opposite reason.)


everyone does make a claim of some sort in the usual fark poo flinging contest, though.

I don't have a problem with atheists or Muslims or whomever, in general.

it's the kind that says, "you are wrong, I am right" or "you are stupid because your ideas are not mine" or similar, as if they alone possess the truth... that's where belief/ non belief issues become problematic at times.

I acknowledge being human, and thus fallible. I do say what I think, but I can't say what I think is always right, which is what the usual poo contests on here boil
down to.
 
2013-04-30 12:36:57 PM  

duffblue: Atheism is a logical fallacy.


Ok I'll bite ... how is it a fallacy?
 
2013-04-30 12:42:35 PM  
Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.
 
2013-04-30 12:46:22 PM  
I don't know about all of them, but there is a cold hard logic element to autism that tends to conflict with belief in invisible friends.
 
2013-04-30 12:46:27 PM  

shortymac: Reverend Monkeypants: My brother is autistic and has a serious problem with this because he believes the fark out of god and church and jesus.  He  almost went full... uh... retard and we had to dig the Jehovah's Witness BS out of his hands.

That's my brother, I worry about him constantly, he's easily lead.


That must weigh heavy on you.
 
2013-04-30 12:47:03 PM  
You know who else believed in areas of the brain....


/ Unavailable for comment
img442.imageshack.us
 
2013-04-30 12:48:39 PM  
I haven't read all of the posts yet, but wanted to throw this in...

Aren't all children born atheists?  Don't all children require "methods of therapy" in order to be indoctrinated into believing in god?
 
2013-04-30 12:52:15 PM  

HAMMERTOE: "No man ever believes that the bible means what it says. He is always convinced that the bible means what he says."

-George Bernard Shaw

I was one of those people, until a Buddhist asked me one day, "Why do you worship a deity of whom you have lower standard of expectations of than you would have of a 16 y/o babysitter?" I then sat down and read the entire bible as a complete book, and was never the same again.

The only thing that autism has in common with atheism is an extremely low tolerance for bullshiat.


Funny, the line I was given was 13.  Of course, I was around that age at the time and talking to myself, but simply asking myself why there's such a lower standard for god than your average 13 year old really helped me move away from faith in general.  It wasn't the tipping point, but it did set me on the road.
 
2013-04-30 12:54:08 PM  

Undead_Elvis: I haven't read all of the posts yet, but wanted to throw this in...

Aren't all children born atheists?  Don't all children require "methods of therapy" in order to be indoctrinated into believing in god?


I don't think the comment was limited to small children, and includes those old enough to have been given a few doses of the Kool-Aid already.
 
2013-04-30 12:54:29 PM  

letrole: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.


Well, Aristotle DID do it...
 
2013-04-30 12:55:44 PM  

friday13: HAMMERTOE: "No man ever believes that the bible means what it says. He is always convinced that the bible means what he says."

-George Bernard Shaw

I was one of those people, until a Buddhist asked me one day, "Why do you worship a deity of whom you have lower standard of expectations of than you would have of a 16 y/o babysitter?" I then sat down and read the entire bible as a complete book, and was never the same again.

The only thing that autism has in common with atheism is an extremely low tolerance for bullshiat.

Funny, the line I was given was 13.  Of course, I was around that age at the time and talking to myself, but simply asking myself why there's such a lower standard for god than your average 13 year old really helped me move away from faith in general.  It wasn't the tipping point, but it did set me on the road.


I was "distracted" by the idea of 16 year old babysitters. Don't go lowering the age to 13.
 
2013-04-30 12:58:06 PM  
Seems to me a lot of autistic kids lack an asinine demagoguery center in their brains, too. Guess they can't be preachers or politicians.
 
2013-04-30 01:17:51 PM  

neversubmit: Ok I found a study.

Religious Belief Systems of Persons with High Functioning Autism (PDF)


Abstract


The cognitive science of religion is a new field which explains religious belief as emerging from normal cognitive processes such as inferring others' mental states, agency detection and imposing patterns on noise. This paper investigates the proposal that individual differences in belief will reflect cognitive processing styles, with high functioning autism being an extreme style that will predispose towards nonbelief (atheism and agnosticism). This view was supported by content analysis of discussion forums about religion on an autism website (covering 192 unique posters), and by a survey that included 61 persons with HFA. Persons with autistic spectrum disorder were much more likely than those in our neurotypical comparison group to identify as atheist or agnostic, and, if religious, were more likely to construct their own religious belief system. Nonbelief was also higher in those who were attracted to systemizing activities, as measured by the Systemizing Quotient.


Correlation hrmphhrmphhrmph causation, etc.  I could interpret the same data as autism, having been found to affect socialization, causes autistics not to require the social support system that modern religions provide, hence the predisposition for atheism and or agnosticism and the construction of their own religious belief system.
 
hej
2013-04-30 01:29:25 PM  

Farking Canuck: ciberido: 8/10 for hitting just the right tone of concern and maintaining it until the end.

Almost everyone is giving this guy high marks but he got almost no bites.

Taking the word troll back to its roots in fishing ... if a guy is trolling and comes home with no fish then he was a failure. No matter how good he looked doing it.

I give him a 2/10.


The high marks were based on the entertainment value of the troll itself, not the responses he got.
 
2013-04-30 01:31:24 PM  

SheltemDragon: Silly_Sot: AverageAmericanGuy: He has a point. When you remove emotion from the equation and let logic take charge, belief in deities seems weird and incongruent with a universe predicated on examinable physical laws.

But humans are not purely logical creatures. Along with our logical minds, we are burdened with our emotional mind as well. Except in the case of autistic children, of course. They are emotionally crippled, for better or worse. As far as atheism goes, for the better, obviously.

Only if those "examinable physical laws" are strictly determinative, which they are not. I'm autistic (properly diagnosed, not one of those self-diagnosed fakers) and am still religious. I'm not an Evangelical Christian, Wahabbi Muslim, or other fundie, but I am a member of an organized Church. My choice, my faith. I could be wrong, and the atheists could be right, but I don't lose sleep over that. It's only the truly stupid and egotistical who get their panties severely in the bunch over the idea that someone else might have a different belief about God than ones own belief. What will God do with the unbelievers? That's His prerogative, not mine. If He wants, he can give everybody a Mulligan. It doesn't have to be fair, He's God.  Yes, it sucks, but reality sucks whether you're a believer or an atheist. I'll live my suckage, you'll live your suckage. I'll ask God to give you a freebie, so long as you're not harming others. Why not? In my little religious shared narrative, nobody actually deserves salvation, anyway, so there's nothing at all wrong with hoping God will let in just about everybody (maybe with a few selfish exceptions for pedophiles, murderers, dictators, etc.)

In my own particular case, adopting religion has improved my behavior and treatment of others. I must sadly admit that there are people of my acquaintance who probably would have been better off being atheists--and this would include the state/fate of their immortal souls.

No, this has not been a sophist ...


I like you're philosophy.

I came to the conclusion that we are God's SIMs game that has been ignored for years.
 
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