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(AZCentral)   It turns out Mark Grace has been a model inmate and quality first baseman in the Arizona Penal League   (azcentral.com) divider line 75
    More: Followup, Mark Grace, MCSO, infielder, new chapter, minor leagues, Diamondbacks, Salt River Fields  
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3838 clicks; posted to Sports » on 30 Apr 2013 at 9:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 09:25:15 AM
So sad. And Tent City of all places. One might say he...fell from grace?

thinkingscifi.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-30 09:43:27 AM
I emceed Mark's bachelor party at a strip joint in Peoria IL., circa 1988.
Nice guy.

/Hope he's learned his lesson
 
2013-04-30 09:46:47 AM
Yovani Gallardo approves.
 
2013-04-30 09:54:24 AM
And Lindsay Lohan runs around free doing what she wants and thumbing her nose at the law.
 
2013-04-30 09:55:15 AM
What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.
 
2013-04-30 09:57:03 AM
Yeah, but those Slump Busters are.....well they're just different now.
 
2013-04-30 09:58:15 AM
A famous person actually got jail time? Impressive.

What's Lohan's excuse?
 
2013-04-30 10:07:39 AM

jayhawk88: Yeah, but those Slump Busters are.....well they're just different now.


Everyone's gotta fall on a hand grenade every now and then.
 
2013-04-30 10:09:00 AM

TheLopper: A famous person actually got jail time? Impressive.

What's Lohan's excuse?


She has boobies.
 
2013-04-30 10:21:39 AM
Must be a stretch playing first base for the Cubs from 2000 miles away... Seriously, I haven't watched baseball in 10 years.

/I'd move to Arizona too...
 
2013-04-30 10:26:36 AM

Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.


Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?
 
2013-04-30 10:34:52 AM
Ever since he got arrested, he owned up to his errors and has worked to fix them. Reading this doesn't surprise me one bit.
 
2013-04-30 10:36:24 AM
Arizona Penal League? Never heard of it.
www.movieactors.com
 
2013-04-30 10:39:13 AM
"We wear caps and sleeves at this level son!"
 
2013-04-30 10:55:21 AM

teknophile4385: Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.

Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?


He's a good player. But those numbers aren't HOF worthy. Seems similar to Will Clark, Bernie Williams, and such. Good careers, a couple of great seasons, but never HOF worthy. Actually, he seems to be pretty short of Bernie Williams and Will Clark, and they never were close to sniffing the HOF.
 
2013-04-30 10:57:08 AM
I have his donruss rated rookie card
 
2013-04-30 11:04:07 AM
How did he get there? Did he steal a car?
 
2013-04-30 11:10:51 AM

teknophile4385: Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.

Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?


No power numbers heading into the biggest power era.

I've given up debating HOF stuff, I just think it's meaningless now.  The voting system is ridiculous, you have way too many different eras, segregation, steroids.... I've just decided to enjoy the game and the accolades can piss off.
 
2013-04-30 11:11:59 AM
Oh, and to add on, defense is never given its due for HOF consideration.  So screw it.
 
2013-04-30 11:14:41 AM
Good ol' tent city...I've got lots of friends who've been in there. My wife got a DUI in Scottsdale, back then a first time offender got between 1-10 days in Tent City.

I think a first offender can get 30 days now? Not sure why bars have parking lots.
 
2013-04-30 11:16:54 AM

Orgasmatron138: teknophile4385: Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.

Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?

No power numbers heading into the biggest power era.

I've given up debating HOF stuff, I just think it's meaningless now.  The voting system is ridiculous, you have way too many different eras, segregation, steroids.... I've just decided to enjoy the game and the accolades can piss off.


This.

Also the distinction of "First Ballot" HoFer makes my eye twitch.
 
2013-04-30 11:26:33 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Good ol' tent city...I've got lots of friends who've been in there. My wife got a DUI in Scottsdale, back then a first time offender got between 1-10 days in Tent City.

I think a first offender can get 30 days now? Not sure why bars have parking lots.


You have "lots" of friends that have gone to jail?  Me thinks it might be time to find new friends....no?
 
2013-04-30 11:30:00 AM
But is he a good catcher?
 
2013-04-30 11:31:21 AM
Am I reading TFA wrong, or is he only actually in jail from 6pm to 6am? Soooo... it's more of a hotel than a jail? Also, second DUI? Fark him. I was a huge Mark Grace fan when he played for the Cubs, but I have no love for perpetual drunk drivers.
 
2013-04-30 11:31:45 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Good ol' tent city...I've got lots of friends who've been in there. My wife got a DUI in Scottsdale, back then a first time offender got between 1-10 days in Tent City.

I think a first offender can get 30 days now? Not sure why bars have parking lots.


Ya 30 days first offense, you can get it just sleeping in your car so it's better to just take your chances driving.
 
2013-04-30 11:33:32 AM

chevydeuce: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Good ol' tent city...I've got lots of friends who've been in there. My wife got a DUI in Scottsdale, back then a first time offender got between 1-10 days in Tent City.

I think a first offender can get 30 days now? Not sure why bars have parking lots.

You have "lots" of friends that have gone to jail?  Me thinks it might be time to find new friends....no?


No, they're just drunks. And this was back in our 20's, and I'll be 40 next year. Most of them eventually grew up.


Also, the DUI offenders are confined to an area with other DUI offenders so its not like Grace is in danger of getting traded for a pack of cigarettes and two candy bars to named later.
 
2013-04-30 11:59:09 AM

Nightenstaff: Am I reading TFA wrong, or is he only actually in jail from 6pm to 6am? Soooo... it's more of a hotel than a jail? Also, second DUI? Fark him. I was a huge Mark Grace fan when he played for the Cubs, but I have no love for perpetual drunk drivers.


He is on a work release program. He is out during the day to go to his job, and he has to stay there over night.
 
2013-04-30 12:16:44 PM

Orgasmatron138: teknophile4385: Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.

Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?

No power numbers heading into the biggest power era.

I've given up debating HOF stuff, I just think it's meaningless now.  The voting system is ridiculous, you have way too many different eras, segregation, steroids.... I've just decided to enjoy the game and the accolades can piss off.


It's fine until next year, when Jack Morris gets in, and we can boot up a list of pitchers who are better than Jack Morris and never even got close.  Such as David Wells, Kevin Brown, Luis Tiant, Milt Pappas, and anyone else you can name.

But we're good for now.  Mark Grace was a three time allstar.  Very good player, but that's not HoF worthy.
 
2013-04-30 12:17:35 PM

teknophile4385: Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.

Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?


There are a few ways to answer that question, but here's the simplest:

Because he's worse than Keith Hernandez.

Hernandez was a better fielder, a better hitter, and played in a worse offensive environment. A HOF with Grace but not Hernandez makes no sense at all.
 
2013-04-30 12:18:34 PM

Dafatone: It's fine until next year, when Jack Morris gets in, and we can boot up a list of pitchers who are better than Jack Morris and never even got close. Such as David Wells, Kevin Brown, Luis Tiant, Milt Pappas, and anyone else you can name.


The only possible silver lining to Morris getting elected is the fark thread.
 
2013-04-30 12:21:44 PM

DeWayne Mann: teknophile4385: Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.

Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?

There are a few ways to answer that question, but here's the simplest:

Because he's worse than Keith Hernandez.

Hernandez was a better fielder, a better hitter, and played in a worse offensive environment. A HOF with Grace but not Hernandez makes no sense at all.


Keith remains the person I most want in the Hall.  Second is, somehow, John Franco, so I'm pretty biased.

/But seriously.  3rd most appearances.  4th most saves.  17th best ERA+.  What else is a reliever supposed to do?
//Yeah, not have a pretty high WHIP.  But people didn't slug much at all against him.
 
2013-04-30 12:24:36 PM

Dafatone: Keith remains the person I most want in the Hall.


Yeah, I laughed when I saw that you had posted while I was writing a post about him.
 
2013-04-30 01:18:17 PM

teknophile4385: Orgasmatron138: What a bummer.  I started watching baseball as an 8-year-old in 1987, so I was a huge fan on his over the course of his entire career.  He has a reputation as a really nice and fun guy.  Sounds like he's the type to have a little too much fun.

Given his work ethic, though, I have no doubt that he'll come out a better person.

Same here. Looking at his career stats:

1000+ runs, 500+ doubles, 2000+ hits and 1000+ rbis and .303/.383/.442

How did he not get elected to the HoF?


He's nowhere near HOF worthy. In a 16 year career he led the league in two categories: AB (once), and Grounded into double plays (once). He was never perceived at the time (by anyone outside of Chicago anyway) as anything better than an "good" player - he received MVP votes in only four seaons, never higher than 13th and only made 3 all-star teams. And his hitting numbers owe a fair bit (30 points of BA, 36 points of OBP) to the friendly confines of Wrigley.

He was a good player, but behind Mattingly, Hernandez, Clark and McGriff, just to name a few of his contemporaries not in the hall (who aren't widely suspected of PED use).
 
2013-04-30 01:29:38 PM

TheLopper: A famous person actually got jail time? Impressive.

What's Lohan's excuse?


The California Justice System.

/Remember OJ?
 
2013-04-30 01:30:01 PM

Nightenstaff: Am I reading TFA wrong, or is he only actually in jail from 6pm to 6am? Soooo... it's more of a hotel than a jail? Also, second DUI? Fark him. I was a huge Mark Grace fan when he played for the Cubs, but I have no love for perpetual drunk drivers.


I take it you have the same disdain for people who chronically text and drive?  Or do they have texting yet in the ivory tower?
 
2013-04-30 01:30:29 PM

Willas Tyrell: He's nowhere near HOF worthy.


Please, any HOF with George Kelly's .794 OPS at first-base would benefit from Grace's sterling .825 OPS and 500+ doubles.

/amidoingitright?
 
2013-04-30 01:35:10 PM

Tiberius Gracchus: Willas Tyrell: He's nowhere near HOF worthy.

Please, any HOF with George Kelly's .794 OPS at first-base would benefit from Grace's sterling .825 OPS and 500+ doubles.

/amidoingitright?


No one other than Frankie Frisch actually thinks Kelly belongs in the hall.
 
2013-04-30 01:46:44 PM

DeWayne Mann: Tiberius Gracchus: Willas Tyrell: He's nowhere near HOF worthy.

Please, any HOF with George Kelly's .794 OPS at first-base would benefit from Grace's sterling .825 OPS and 500+ doubles.

/amidoingitright?

No one other than Frankie Frisch actually thinks Kelly belongs in the hall.


So...you're saying there's a chance.

/Huh, better than Rod Carew too I see.
//It's interesting what mining for HoF low OPS gets you
/Grace is not a HoFer - even if he was my favorite growing up
 
2013-04-30 01:55:02 PM

ongbok: And Lindsay Lohan runs around free doing what she wants and thumbing her nose at the law.


That's not the only thing she does with her nose.
 
2013-04-30 01:55:30 PM

Tiberius Gracchus: /Huh, better than Rod Carew too I see.


Ok, three things:

1. Carew played about 200 games more than Grace, so his career rate stats will take a bit of a hit. I like to look at peaks, which I usually define as age 25-35. Carew's peak OPS is higher than Grace's using that definition.
2. This is why it's generally better to use something like OPS+. Carew's career is at 131 & his peak is at 140. Grace's are 119 & 123, respectively.
3. Carew did play 49% of his games at second.
 
2013-04-30 02:19:47 PM

FLMountainMan: Nightenstaff: Am I reading TFA wrong, or is he only actually in jail from 6pm to 6am? Soooo... it's more of a hotel than a jail? Also, second DUI? Fark him. I was a huge Mark Grace fan when he played for the Cubs, but I have no love for perpetual drunk drivers.

I take it you have the same disdain for people who chronically text and drive?  Or do they have texting yet in the ivory tower?


If it endangers people around you (not referring to You), then yes. I'm not a "shut up and drive" type of person, but I've had enough people killed by drunk driving to be justified in my disdain. Driving is a skill. Some people can talk and drive, eat and drive, shave with a straight razor and drive, etc and some can't. If you willfully impair yourself with drugs, alcohol, or any other number of distractions and drive, you're an areshole.
 
2013-04-30 02:23:06 PM

ongbok: And Lindsay Lohan runs around free doing what she wants and thumbing her nose at the law.


this was my first thought as well.  don't know the details, but four months seems a bit...onerous.
 
2013-04-30 02:31:51 PM

stir22: this was my first thought as well. don't know the details, but four months seems a bit...onerous.


1)  arizona does not fark around with DUI

2)  it was his second DUI in about 15-16 months.  He was facing years in prison (see point #1);  4 months is pretty light, considering what his sentencing range was.
 
2013-04-30 02:36:58 PM
Heh heh heh, "penal"
 
2013-04-30 02:39:54 PM

DeWayne Mann: Ok, three things:


You don't really do the whole reading comprehension thing, do you?  I didn't think I could make it any clearer that I was blatantly fishing for nonsense/out of context stats (or stupid Vet Committee players) and did not think Grace was HoF worthy.  I bet Grace has a better OPS than Ozzie Smith too...
 
2013-04-30 02:43:24 PM

Tiberius Gracchus: DeWayne Mann: Ok, three things:

You don't really do the whole reading comprehension thing, do you?  I didn't think I could make it any clearer that I was blatantly fishing for nonsense/out of context stats (or stupid Vet Committee players) and did not think Grace was HoF worthy.  I bet Grace has a better OPS than Ozzie Smith too...


No, I got that. I just didn't want someone reading the thread and coming away thinking that Mark Grace was a better hitter than Rod Carew.
 
2013-04-30 02:49:18 PM
Didn't realize Cubs players continue losing even after their career.
 
2013-04-30 03:12:17 PM
What constitutes an "aggravated DUI"? Super high BAC?
 
2013-04-30 03:28:48 PM

Orgasmatron138: The voting system is ridiculous


Are you telling me that you don't think golf writers should have a vote in the Baseball Hall of Fame? That's crazy talk
 
2013-04-30 03:34:30 PM

rickythepenguin: stir22: this was my first thought as well. don't know the details, but four months seems a bit...onerous.

1)  arizona does not fark around with DUI

2)  it was his second DUI in about 15-16 months.  He was facing years in prison (see point #1);  4 months is pretty light, considering what his sentencing range was.


ahhhh......gotcha.  thanks.
 
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