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(Lancaster Online)   Man ordered by his township to install a septic tank believed to be about $20,000 but he is happy with his outhouse. "The outhouse ain't bothering anybody and I'm not going to spend that much money to put something in I don't really need"   (lancasteronline.com) divider line 105
    More: Stupid, septic systems, Wilson Huyett, state Department of Environmental Protection, Aaron Kauffroth  
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8214 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2013 at 1:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-29 11:59:55 AM  
www.thenaturalhome.com
Composting Toilet
+

graphics8.nytimes.com
Greywater recycling system

=
Problem(s) solved.
 
2013-04-29 12:01:04 PM  
Unless it can be definitely proven that this outhouse is in some fashion causing harm to his neighbors or the larger community, which seems unlikely, this is probably one of those situations where some sort of specific, individual grandfather exemption from the rules is appropriate. Not that I'd expect anything appropriate to happen as a result of this, of course.
 
2013-04-29 12:05:52 PM  
$20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-04-29 12:06:53 PM  
Massachusetts mostly or entirely banned new outhouses more than a decade ago. Sample story: http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/x573333288.
 
2013-04-29 12:08:18 PM  
"I said, 'When you're out in the woods, where do you go to the bathroom?' " Huyett recalled. "He couldn't answer me."

Well that's pretty obvious, isn't it?  First you find a bear, and then you watch where he shiats.
 
2013-04-29 12:11:51 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Unless it can be definitely proven that this outhouse is in some fashion causing harm to his neighbors or the larger community, which seems unlikely, this is probably one of those situations where some sort of specific, individual grandfather exemption from the rules is appropriate. Not that I'd expect anything appropriate to happen as a result of this, of course.


That's not how cash grabs work. When they built a maximum security state prison in town, EVERYONE at the time had a perfectly working septic tank. Most still do, they didn't require anyone to remove any, but you MUST pay sewage. $1,500 tap in fee (money for absolutely NOTHING, this does not cover the actual digging, just the right to tap in), and it's absolutely mandatory. They won't turn on water unless you're hooked up to sewage.

/proud owner of 3 perfectly working but disused septic tanks
//maybe as many as 5, but I only know where 3 are.
 
2013-04-29 12:13:12 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: "I said, 'When you're out in the woods, where do you go to the bathroom?' " Huyett recalled. "He couldn't answer me."

Well that's pretty obvious, isn't it?  First you find a bear, and then you watch where he shiats.


NO NO NO NO NO..

You follow the Pope....
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-04-29 12:24:05 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.


They run 15 to 20K in my area.
 
2013-04-29 12:26:52 PM  

NFA: Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.

They run 15 to 20K in my area.


Easily, especially if you live in an area that requires the sand mound thing. If I were to build a new construction here, I'd be DAMNED glad there is sewage because it's far cheaper in the short run. It really sucked for all of us who had it forced on us though, when everyone already had septic tanks. When I was a kid there were even a few outhouses remaining, there's only one now behind an abandoned fire damaged duplex. According to grandma, they got running water around 1950 here.
 
2013-04-29 12:45:02 PM  
Yankbilly problems.
 
2013-04-29 01:01:29 PM  
Sounds like a money grab to me.  Who's to tell me where I can and cannot shiat?  I'm pretty sure that's in one of the amendments somewhere.

Also, why in the hell does he need THREE tanks?  My one family house has only one tank and it works pretty good.
 
2013-04-29 01:01:49 PM  

nekom: NFA: Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.

They run 15 to 20K in my area.

Easily, especially if you live in an area that requires the sand mound thing. If I were to build a new construction here, I'd be DAMNED glad there is sewage because it's far cheaper in the short run. It really sucked for all of us who had it forced on us though, when everyone already had septic tanks. When I was a kid there were even a few outhouses remaining, there's only one now behind an abandoned fire damaged duplex. According to grandma, they got running water around 1950 here.


I put a new system in back in 2001 for about $14k.
 
2013-04-29 01:02:04 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Unless it can be definitely proven that this outhouse is in some fashion causing harm to his neighbors or the larger community, which seems unlikely


I agree that there should be a path to an exemption for this guy, or anyone who can "definitively prove" that their outhouse  doesn't threaten harm to the larger community, including themselves.

But you'd be amazed at how far just a little ignorance will take you when you're talking about mixing shiat and groundwater.
 
2013-04-29 01:03:48 PM  

Farce-Side: Also, why in the hell does he need THREE tanks?


One for each seashell!
 
2013-04-29 01:08:56 PM  

Farce-Side: Sounds like a money grab to me.  Who's to tell me where I can and cannot shiat?  I'm pretty sure that's in one of the amendments somewhere.

Also, why in the hell does he need THREE tanks?  My one family house has only one tank and it works pretty good.


There's a LOT of wacky new regulations to that kind of thing. What we had prior to sewage being forced on us was a single concrete tank, same as the old house we lived in had and same as the house I recently bought has. Just a big concrete tank with a concrete lid, and a spider web of leech beds going out in various directions. I can assure you that it would NOT be sufficient to modern code, though it worked perfectly fine, just needed sucked out once a decade or so. We filled one in because it was exposed on the surface and may have posed a hazard (6 year old running around here), my parents old one is underneath their deck, and mine I will probably just get a piece of thick sheet metal and cover it back up once I get sewage dug.

What I don't get, all of this mandatory stuff these days, is how in the everloving fark poor people are supposed to live around here. We are rather well off, but the median family income here is only $35K. It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.
 
2013-04-29 01:12:13 PM  
It seems the inevitable scenario to use justifiable domestic drone strikes came sooner than anyone imagined.
 
2013-04-29 01:13:57 PM  

markie_farkie: Marcus Aurelius: "I said, 'When you're out in the woods, where do you go to the bathroom?' " Huyett recalled. "He couldn't answer me."

Well that's pretty obvious, isn't it?  First you find a bear, and then you watch where he shiats.

NO NO NO NO NO..

You follow the Pope....


Personally I've found that encountering a bear in the woods tends to resolve the need in the first place.
 
2013-04-29 01:14:12 PM  
nekom:  It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.

Exactly. That's what they're aiming for. Criminalization of poverty is definitely a thing.

//Who is they? The fark-you-I-got-mine crowd.
 
2013-04-29 01:17:26 PM  
"The outhouse 'ain't bothering anybody,' said Huyett, a burly bachelor..."

ya don't say...
 
2013-04-29 01:17:31 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-29 01:17:42 PM  

nekom: Farce-Side: Sounds like a money grab to me.  Who's to tell me where I can and cannot shiat?  I'm pretty sure that's in one of the amendments somewhere.

Also, why in the hell does he need THREE tanks?  My one family house has only one tank and it works pretty good.

There's a LOT of wacky new regulations to that kind of thing. What we had prior to sewage being forced on us was a single concrete tank, same as the old house we lived in had and same as the house I recently bought has. Just a big concrete tank with a concrete lid, and a spider web of leech beds going out in various directions. I can assure you that it would NOT be sufficient to modern code, though it worked perfectly fine, just needed sucked out once a decade or so. We filled one in because it was exposed on the surface and may have posed a hazard (6 year old running around here), my parents old one is underneath their deck, and mine I will probably just get a piece of thick sheet metal and cover it back up once I get sewage dug.

What I don't get, all of this mandatory stuff these days, is how in the everloving fark poor people are supposed to live around here. We are rather well off, but the median family income here is only $35K. It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.


THIS point cannot be stressed enough, and:

i6.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-29 01:18:49 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.


This one cost $1.5 billion.

www.jaunted.com
 
2013-04-29 01:19:28 PM  

nekom: What I don't get, all of this mandatory stuff these days, is how in the everloving fark poor people are supposed to live around here. We are rather well off, but the median family income here is only $35K. It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.


You're a little late to the party. It's been against the law to be poor for awhile now.

/most of the "easy" ways for a poor person to make money are either illegal (think weekly garage sales) or require fees and paperwork and money to get into (think the sheriff arresting kids because they didn't have a permit for their lemonade stand)
//liability is the #1 reason why I haven't said fark it and took out a loan to start a business
 
2013-04-29 01:20:41 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Unless it can be definitely proven that this outhouse is in some fashion causing harm to his neighbors or the larger community, which seems unlikely, this is probably one of those situations where some sort of specific, individual grandfather exemption from the rules is appropriate. Not that I'd expect anything appropriate to happen as a result of this, of course.


Bizzaro-world: Where Pocket Ninja posts something perfectly reasonable, logical, and true.
 
2013-04-29 01:20:57 PM  

skullkrusher: "The outhouse 'ain't bothering anybody,' said Huyett, a burly bachelor..."

ya don't say...


I was kinda wondering about this guy, when I read that he was a young man carrying heavy things around another 'bachelor' farmer's property when the guy asked him to move in and be his 'farmhand'...lived there for nearly 50 years and got the property in the will when the original 'bachelor' farmer passed away.

/NTTAWWT
 
2013-04-29 01:21:19 PM  
Fight it in court! The dude is 77, he will be dead or in a home by the time the case gets settled.
 
2013-04-29 01:21:58 PM  
What's wrong with the outhouse?

As long as the ventilation is proper and its not polluting any ground water, seems fine.

As far as the environment go, the feces from a lone 77-year old man will probably be an improvement to the environment vs all the other fertilizers and fracking that they do in other communities.
 
2013-04-29 01:23:18 PM  

semiotix: Pocket Ninja: Unless it can be definitely proven that this outhouse is in some fashion causing harm to his neighbors or the larger community, which seems unlikely

I agree that there should be a path to an exemption for this guy, or anyone who can "definitively prove" that their outhouse  doesn't threaten harm to the larger community, including themselves.

But you'd be amazed at how far just a little ignorance will take you when you're talking about mixing shiat and groundwater.


I admit I'm a bit confused by your point.

Most wells are dug to 500+ feet. Water drawn off of that has gone through all of the processes of being filtered by the environment, bacteria and all, and is safe to drink.

Considering the toxins and shiat you find in so-called pristine mountain runoff and other such places that are nowhere near outhouses, surface water in general is going to be dirty.  If a water sample test on the local ground water shows nothing to worry about, there's no risk.
 
2013-04-29 01:24:18 PM  

buzzcut73: skullkrusher: "The outhouse 'ain't bothering anybody,' said Huyett, a burly bachelor..."

ya don't say...

I was kinda wondering about this guy, when I read that he was a young man carrying heavy things around another 'bachelor' farmer's property when the guy asked him to move in and be his 'farmhand'...lived there for nearly 50 years and got the property in the will when the original 'bachelor' farmer passed away.

/NTTAWWT


hehe yeah methinks this particular farm hand had his calloused hands on his employer's tool pretty often
 
2013-04-29 01:25:32 PM  

Dadoody: What's wrong with the outhouse?

As long as the ventilation is proper and its not polluting any ground water, seems fine.

As far as the environment go, the feces from a lone 77-year old man will probably be an improvement to the environment vs all the other fertilizers and fracking that they do in other communities.


Fancy us a bit of a septuagenarian feces connoisseur, do we?
 
2013-04-29 01:29:03 PM  
Five years later the township comes back and demands he fork over another 14-large to be hooked up to the municipal sewer system.
 
2013-04-29 01:29:36 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Dadoody: What's wrong with the outhouse?

As long as the ventilation is proper and its not polluting any ground water, seems fine.

As far as the environment go, the feces from a lone 77-year old man will probably be an improvement to the environment vs all the other fertilizers and fracking that they do in other communities.

Fancy us a bit of a septuagenarian feces connoisseur, do we?


Dammit, First the gun thread, and now this. You keep proving your awesomeness, and I'll have to responsor you to TF.
 
2013-04-29 01:32:10 PM  

nekom: What I don't get, all of this mandatory stuff these day

s


It's for the good of society.
 
2013-04-29 01:33:08 PM  
Does Bob Mohn make money from this forced policy? I bet he does. Let's help Bob Mohn find a mob of farmers that don't agree.
 
2013-04-29 01:33:49 PM  

chewielouie: Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.

This one cost $1.5 billion.

[www.jaunted.com image 385x246]


I hate to be pedantic, but isn't that the old one?
 
2013-04-29 01:36:54 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: chewielouie: Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.

This one cost $1.5 billion.

[www.jaunted.com image 385x246]

I hate to be pedantic, but isn't that the old one?


good catch. Yes, it is.
 
2013-04-29 01:37:37 PM  
Show of hands: Who here has a septic tank + well water?

/The circle of life is complete.
 
2013-04-29 01:39:40 PM  
He should look into having the property declared a historic site. They often have different rules about what qualifies as being up to code.
 
2013-04-29 01:40:22 PM  

HiFiGuy: Show of hands: Who here has a septic tank + well water?

/The circle of life is complete.


/raises hand
//going to get water tested every other year or so to be safe
///shallow well and some of the best tasting water I've ever had
////all my neighbors have smelly rusty water
 
2013-04-29 01:42:11 PM  

semiotix: Pocket Ninja: Unless it can be definitely proven that this outhouse is in some fashion causing harm to his neighbors or the larger community, which seems unlikely

I agree that there should be a path to an exemption for this guy, or anyone who can "definitively prove" that their outhouse  doesn't threaten harm to the larger community, including themselves.

But you'd be amazed at how far just a little ignorance will take you when you're talking about mixing shiat and groundwater.


Sounds like you understand how a septic system works about as well as the people making the laws:

<i>"The DEP regulations do not care whether it is one person or a family, nor does age or financial concerns make a difference," Mohn said in the email. "The township's responsibility is to assure the waters of the Commonwealth are not jeopardized."</i>

One person's poo going into a ~6ft deep hole would have no where near the impact of flushing it with water then letting it fester in a septic tank then releasing into the ground.

I could understand if he had indoor plumbing and was just running the out-pipe into a hole, or if he lived on a 1/4 acre lot and you could smell it all over the neighborhood.
 
2013-04-29 01:42:52 PM  
Man ... believed to be about $20,000

So he's the guy made of money?
 
2013-04-29 01:43:38 PM  

ZAZ: Massachusetts mostly or entirely banned new outhouses more than a decade ago. Sample story: http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/x573333288.


Maine did the same thing but that is NEW construction, they did not go after the existing outhouses.  This guy would have been left alone, at most he would have gotten a letter saying he could not build a new one.
 
2013-04-29 01:44:43 PM  
Yes, $20 grand does sound steep.   Around here 10k can get you a anaerobic septic system, more if the soil doesn't perc, requiring a much larger drainfield.

However there's another option, at least in my state, that's cheaper.  Aerobic treatment systems have a tiny (in comparison) tank and rapidly break down the stuff using aerobic bacteria.  The "clean" effluent is just sprayed on the ground with an automatic lawn sprinkler type system.
 
2013-04-29 01:45:14 PM  
You've gotta fight. For your right. To potty.
 
2013-04-29 01:45:49 PM  
Oh, but I guess his cost goes up either way, since he doesn't have a shiatter to plumb to it.
 
2013-04-29 01:46:56 PM  

Peki: nekom: What I don't get, all of this mandatory stuff these days, is how in the everloving fark poor people are supposed to live around here. We are rather well off, but the median family income here is only $35K. It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.

You're a little late to the party. It's been against the law to be poor for awhile now.

/most of the "easy" ways for a poor person to make money are either illegal (think weekly garage sales) or require fees and paperwork and money to get into (think the sheriff arresting kids because they didn't have a permit for their lemonade stand)
//liability is the #1 reason why I haven't said fark it and took out a loan to start a business


It's pretty simple. International corporations control the world governments  and they want you working for them, not out there starting competing businesses.
 
2013-04-29 01:48:12 PM  
Huyett said he was a 22-year-old stone mason's assistant,"carrying heavy stuff up a ladder," when Aaron Kauffroth, a bachelor farmer on lonesome Kauffroth Road in Salisbury Township, asked him in 1958 to be his farm hand. He accepted.

thejerseycritic.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-29 01:48:14 PM  

HiFiGuy: Show of hands: Who here has a septic tank + well water?

/The circle of life is complete.


Raises hand.

In addition, this guy is screwed. Maryland has a hard on to clean up their waterways at the direction of the federal government. They are pretending that mandating $20k septic systems will fix a lot of the problem they are turning a blind eye to state and municipality sewage stations. Maryland paid for a report a few years ago that showed where the pollution in the Chesapeake bay was coming from. Surprise, homeowners made up a fraction, runoff was the majority of the pollution and coming in a close second were overflows from outdated and poor sewage stations situated on the Chesapeake.

All septic owners are being screwed, why not this guy?  he'll have to go to McDonald's every time he wants to poo.
 
2013-04-29 01:50:12 PM  

caddisfly: Huyett said he was a 22-year-old stone mason's assistant,"carrying heavy stuff up a ladder," when Aaron Kauffroth, a bachelor farmer on lonesome Kauffroth Road in Salisbury Township, asked him in 1958 to be his farm hand. He accepted.

[thejerseycritic.files.wordpress.com image 850x531]


I can't quit you pooping in my outhouse
 
2013-04-29 01:50:30 PM  
I'd like to hear what the Pope has to say about this.
 
2013-04-29 01:51:39 PM  

Pincy: I'd like to hear what the Pope has to say about this.


From the sounds of the article, we definitely know what the bear does.
 
2013-04-29 01:51:47 PM  
Concerned internet citizens respond by raising 100,000 so he can continue to go to his outhouse after putting in the system
 
2013-04-29 01:52:57 PM  

RatOmeter: However there's another option, at least in my state, that's cheaper.  Aerobic treatment systems have a tiny (in comparison)


from the link:
Anaerobic treatment system orATS, often called (incorrectly) anaerobic septic system...

somebody's having fun at wiki
 
2013-04-29 01:53:49 PM  
Wonder what member(s) of the city council sell septic tanks.
 
2013-04-29 01:59:59 PM  

mizchief: Peki: nekom: What I don't get, all of this mandatory stuff these days, is how in the everloving fark poor people are supposed to live around here. We are rather well off, but the median family income here is only $35K. It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.

You're a little late to the party. It's been against the law to be poor for awhile now.

/most of the "easy" ways for a poor person to make money are either illegal (think weekly garage sales) or require fees and paperwork and money to get into (think the sheriff arresting kids because they didn't have a permit for their lemonade stand)
//liability is the #1 reason why I haven't said fark it and took out a loan to start a business

It's pretty simple. International corporations control the world governments  and they want you working for them, not out there starting competing businesses.


Yup. Which is why I said fark it and became a volunteer. Much happier. Even a bit healthier, though food is a little lacking (garden should be producing in a few weeks though, so that'll even out). It's funny how generous people can get when you show up with hands willing to do work. Working for a business, though, is soul sucking. I'll pass, even if it means I'll never be a millionaire (have that figured out too, but will take much longer than the garden will).
 
2013-04-29 02:08:22 PM  
nekom:

/proud owner of 3 perfectly working but disused septic tanks
//maybe as many as 5, but I only know where 3 are.


Do you have to pump them every 3 years if you don't use them?
 
2013-04-29 02:09:31 PM  

markie_farkie: Marcus Aurelius: "I said, 'When you're out in the woods, where do you go to the bathroom?' " Huyett recalled. "He couldn't answer me."

Well that's pretty obvious, isn't it?  First you find a bear, and then you watch where he shiats.

NO NO NO NO NO..

You follow the Pope....


And if he has a thorn in his butt and you pull it out you get three wishes
 
2013-04-29 02:10:31 PM  

mr lawson: RatOmeter: However there's another option, at least in my state, that's cheaper.  Aerobic treatment systems have a tiny (in comparison)

from the link:
Anaerobic treatment system orATS, often called (incorrectly) anaerobic septic system...

somebody's having fun at wiki


My introduction to the concept of Anaerobic stuff was talking about industrial in-city urban food farms, as part of a way to have the 'waste products' of plants and animals be used to generate electricity, to help offset the drain from the grid.

So, not neccessarily.
 
2013-04-29 02:14:26 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: nekom:

Do you have to pump them every 3 years if you don't use them?


No, but if I ever expected to use it again, I would certainly pump it out first. The very old one, which had been disused since 1985, I filled in only because it posed a mild hazard. We filled it in last year, and at that point there wasn't even a sewage smell, everything had decomposed. Smelled more like that icky mud that you get next to streams sometimes that's made up of decomposing leaves and such. After a few years, everything biological that was going to happen already has and you're left with a big ol' tank of mud.
 
2013-04-29 02:14:42 PM  

Bravo Two: I admit I'm a bit confused by your point.
Most wells are dug to 500+ feet.


Maybe where you are, or maybe now. I can assure you that there are places where wells, especially older ones, do not go remotely so deep, and a lot of them are still in service. That's one reason why wells get tested for coliform in the first place--bacteria can come in from the bottom as well as the tops and sides.

mizchief: Sounds like you understand how a septic system works about as well as the people making the laws:


What I don't "understand" is the precise groundwater and geology situation on this guy's farm in Lancaster (PA?). But then neither does he, or you. It's knowable, but he doesn't know it. Yes, in point of actual fact, people digging holes to shiat in can impact other people's drinking water, or their own. Outhouses are not automatically guaranteed to be 100% safe for everyone concerned. Strange but true. And if anyone's going to fark this up, it's going to be the guy who thinks he knows the score better than some fancy bureaucrat with a fancy map drawn up by some fancy state geologist.

Septic tanks can leak, corrode, or otherwise fail, which is why they have to be regulated too. (Behold, the terrible oppression of the state, reaching up even to our bungholes as they sit on the toilet.) That also makes people angry and want to tell other people that they don't know what's what.
 
2013-04-29 02:18:36 PM  

nekom: BarkingUnicorn: nekom:

Do you have to pump them every 3 years if you don't use them?

No, but if I ever expected to use it again, I would certainly pump it out first. The very old one, which had been disused since 1985, I filled in only because it posed a mild hazard. We filled it in last year, and at that point there wasn't even a sewage smell, everything had decomposed. Smelled more like that icky mud that you get next to streams sometimes that's made up of decomposing leaves and such. After a few years, everything biological that was going to happen already has and you're left with a big ol' tank of mud.


I should have asked, "Does the local law require you to pump every 3 years" whether you need it or not.  Seems to be the case with this guy.  He got a notice saying pump or pay over $1000 fine, even though he had nothing to pump.
 
2013-04-29 02:21:42 PM  
nekom:

It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.

Bingo. Then they'll put you in the new jobs-providing prison where you can work to earn your keep & pay protection, and where the better-connected in your county can work as guards & administrators.

They're slowly bringing back slavery or something very like it, but this time it's a bit more color blind.

"In the land of the free, and the home of the brave."
 
2013-04-29 02:28:22 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: He got a notice saying pump or pay over $1000 fine, even though he had nothing to pump.


And then when he told the county that, he was told "Put something in to pump!"

Which makes this sound exactly like a cash grab, and not a legitimate environmental concern.

(yourenothelping.jpg)
 
2013-04-29 02:30:29 PM  

stuffy: Wonder what member(s) of the city council sell septic tanks.


blondemomblog.com
 
2013-04-29 02:33:43 PM  
FTFA:  he remembers a life spent raising hogs and growing field crops.

Maybe nobody else noticed, but he LIVES ON A FARKING HOG FARM!!!!!  For all you people who don't get out of the city much, Hogs ain't potty trained.  Compared to a few hundred pigs shiatting anywhere they damn well feel like, I don't think that his outhouse has much environmental impact.
 
2013-04-29 02:35:50 PM  

Farce-Side: Sounds like a money grab to me.  Who's to tell me where I can and cannot shiat?  I'm pretty sure that's in one of the amendments somewhere.

Also, why in the hell does he need THREE tanks?  My one family house has only one tank and it works pretty good.


The way it's described, it sounds like the regs there require an aerated system, which uses multiple tanks and a pump. $20K to install one of those in that area might actually be a bit low. I have one of those, I rarely have to get it pumped out, but it's gotta be inspected by the local health dept. every year.

The systems with only one tank are anaerobic. These are the systems that need Rid-X from time to time, to help keep the bacteria levels up, and they have to be pumped out more often. As you might expect, they're quite a bit less expensive.

I sympathize with the old geezer, but I don't think he's gonna win this. He might want to start figuring out how to finance his new septic system.
 
2013-04-29 02:40:17 PM  
Anyone who believes that gubbermints and health departments only have septic and sewer requirements as a "cash grab" need only visit India to understand WHY those things are required here. The smell hits you INSTANTLY when they open the plane's door.

Cholera ain't no joke.
 
2013-04-29 02:42:33 PM  

stevejovi: Anyone who believes that gubbermints and health departments only have septic and sewer requirements as a "cash grab" need only visit India to understand WHY those things are required here. The smell hits you INSTANTLY when they open the plane's door.

Cholera ain't no joke.


Sounds like a Libertarian paradise to me.
 
2013-04-29 02:43:44 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Yankbilly problems.


I have some yankbilly Mainers in my family.  Their houses are ocean front, but they're practically shacks and haven't seen any real renovations---not even insulation!---since they were built four generations ago.  No surprise, they all use outhouses.

Could you imagine walking out to use the outhouse in the middle of a farkin' Maine winter?  Insane, if you ask me.
 
2013-04-29 02:43:59 PM  

Summercat: mr lawson: RatOmeter: However there's another option, at least in my state, that's cheaper.  Aerobic treatment systems have a tiny (in comparison)

from the link:
Anaerobic treatment system orATS, often called (incorrectly) anaerobic septic system...

somebody's having fun at wiki

My introduction to the concept of Anaerobic stuff was talking about industrial in-city urban food farms, as part of a way to have the 'waste products' of plants and animals be used to generate electricity, to help offset the drain from the grid.

So, not neccessarily.


you missed the joke
from wiki:
Anaerobic treatment system or ATS
often called (incorrectly) anaerobic septic system
 (or ASS:-)
 
2013-04-29 02:44:44 PM  

nekom: just needed TO BE sucked out once a decade or so


Come on.  We just had a thread about this.
 
2013-04-29 02:46:21 PM  

semiotix: Bravo Two: I admit I'm a bit confused by your point.
Most wells are dug to 500+ feet.

Maybe where you are, or maybe now. I can assure you that there are places where wells, especially older ones, do not go remotely so deep, and a lot of them are still in service. That's one reason why wells get tested for coliform in the first place--bacteria can come in from the bottom as well as the tops and sides.


I was hoping somebody would correct that. There are lots of 30-foot drinking wells still in use. Also, the bottom of the well is not the top of the water. Most of the wells in that area are going to be 150-250 feet deep, but the static water level is around 15-30 feet, for various reasons. At any rate, concentrated pockets of untreated human waste are never a good thing.
 
2013-04-29 02:47:22 PM  

buzzcut73: skullkrusher: "The outhouse 'ain't bothering anybody,' said Huyett, a burly bachelor..."

ya don't say...

I was kinda wondering about this guy, when I read that he was a young man carrying heavy things around another 'bachelor' farmer's property when the guy asked him to move in and be his 'farmhand'...lived there for nearly 50 years and got the property in the will when the original 'bachelor' farmer passed away.

/NTTAWWT


Yeah, they were butt buddies, that's for sure.

/NTTAWWT
 
2013-04-29 02:48:10 PM  
step one fill in he outhouse holestep two just shiat and piss in the same place, without bothering to cover it up
 
2013-04-29 02:59:32 PM  

nekom: Farce-Side: Sounds like a money grab to me.  Who's to tell me where I can and cannot shiat?  I'm pretty sure that's in one of the amendments somewhere.

Also, why in the hell does he need THREE tanks?  My one family house has only one tank and it works pretty good.

There's a LOT of wacky new regulations to that kind of thing. What we had prior to sewage being forced on us was a single concrete tank, same as the old house we lived in had and same as the house I recently bought has. Just a big concrete tank with a concrete lid, and a spider web of leech beds going out in various directions. I can assure you that it would NOT be sufficient to modern code, though it worked perfectly fine, just needed sucked out once a decade or so. We filled one in because it was exposed on the surface and may have posed a hazard (6 year old running around here), my parents old one is underneath their deck, and mine I will probably just get a piece of thick sheet metal and cover it back up once I get sewage dug.

What I don't get, all of this mandatory stuff these days, is how in the everloving fark poor people are supposed to live around here. We are rather well off, but the median family income here is only $35K. It's getting to the point where it's against the law to be poor.


YOU GOT IT!
 
2013-04-29 03:15:43 PM  
This being Fark, I am truly surprised no one has mentioned the single greatest risk one can encounter in an out house.

Grab your umbrella and take a little tour with me into the depths of darkness:

http://tinyurl.com/bonhl96

http://tinyurl.com/cuhzbe9

http://tinyurl.com/3v25nje

http://tinyurl.com/cealf9u

http://tinyurl.com/cnfd6zo


There are dozens more stories, but I am feeling a bit too queasy to continue.

Here's something that might make a great desktop background for a True Farker:

www.dreamindemon.com
 
2013-04-29 03:22:22 PM  
This is the part I don't get: you poop and pee in a hole in the ground under your outhouse, and the waste liquid seeps directly into the ground. The indissolvable solids actually remain in the hole.

Or...you poop and pee into a toilet, which runs out to a tank buried in the ground, from which pipes allow the waste liquid to seep directly into the ground. The indissolvable solids actually remain in the tank.

What's the difference?
 
2013-04-29 03:27:49 PM  

ZAZ: Massachusetts mostly or entirely banned new outhouses more than a decade ago. Sample story: http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/x573333288.


Title 5 came into effect in mid 1995.
 
2013-04-29 03:33:45 PM  

nekom: Pocket Ninja: Unless it can be definitely proven that this outhouse is in some fashion causing harm to his neighbors or the larger community, which seems unlikely, this is probably one of those situations where some sort of specific, individual grandfather exemption from the rules is appropriate. Not that I'd expect anything appropriate to happen as a result of this, of course.

That's not how cash grabs work. When they built a maximum security state prison in town, EVERYONE at the time had a perfectly working septic tank. Most still do, they didn't require anyone to remove any, but you MUST pay sewage. $1,500 tap in fee (money for absolutely NOTHING, this does not cover the actual digging, just the right to tap in), and it's absolutely mandatory. They won't turn on water unless you're hooked up to sewage.

/proud owner of 3 perfectly working but disused septic tanks
//maybe as many as 5, but I only know where 3 are.


You know, seriously, someone needs to kill a few of these little tin Hitlers. Get the right amount/type of coverage on it and a few hundred incidents around the country might do a national reset.
 
2013-04-29 03:39:05 PM  
POOP THREAD
i146.photobucket.com

/someone hadda do it
 
2013-04-29 03:40:29 PM  

ItchyBrother: This being Fark, I am truly surprised no one has mentioned the single greatest risk one can encounter in an out house.

Grab your umbrella and take a little tour with me into the depths of darkness:

http://tinyurl.com/bonhl96

http://tinyurl.com/cuhzbe9

http://tinyurl.com/3v25nje

http://tinyurl.com/cealf9u

http://tinyurl.com/cnfd6zo

There are dozens more stories, but I am feeling a bit too queasy to continue.

Here's something that might make a great desktop background for a True Farker:

[www.dreamindemon.com image 580x456]


Wow, that's two freakin Rule 34 sightings today.  Some people are just....wow...
 
2013-04-29 03:44:05 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: biological that was going to happen already has and you're left with a big ol' tank of mud.

I should have asked, "Does the local law require you to pump every 3 years" whether you need it or not.  Seems to be the case with this guy.  He got a notice saying pump or pay over $1000 fine, even though he had nothing to pump.


That I couldn't tell you.  I don't ever recall hearing of any such law, and I haven't seen anyone have one pumped since we got sewage.  It would seem rather futile to pump it every 3 years, it's just going to fill up with ground water after the first suck if it isn't in use.  It would make some degree of sense if the law required their removal, not that I'd be a fan of that but at least it would make some sense.  Those things are going to cave in one day, and going to leave a bit of a sinkhole when they do, but probably nothing that could injure anyone
 
2013-04-29 03:51:28 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.


Dad just put one in at his new place.  $11,700 thanks to the new county regulations.  Says it would have been $3,000 a few years ago.  That's for a small, single-family house.  If the guy's on a sprawling farm property with multiple habitable dwellings, a septic system could easily run $20k.

It would be more cost-effective for him to get a porta potty.  Shouldn't cost him more than $50/visit to have it pumped.  I'll bet some local company would donate one to him for the good press.
 
2013-04-29 03:54:39 PM  

Stone Meadow: What's the difference?


Who gets paid.
 
2013-04-29 03:54:47 PM  

Stone Meadow: This is the part I don't get: you poop and pee in a hole in the ground under your outhouse, and the waste liquid seeps directly into the ground. The indissolvable solids actually remain in the hole.

Or...you poop and pee into a toilet, which runs out to a tank buried in the ground, from which pipes allow the waste liquid to seep directly into the ground. The indissolvable solids actually remain in the tank.

What's the difference?


About $20k.

/ Oh - and bureaucratic approval.
// We've got some weird hybrid system - the liquids get pumped to treatment facility, the solids stay and we havta' pump them out every 4-5 years. The worst of both worlds: Sewage charges AND septic pumping.
 
2013-04-29 03:58:53 PM  

Peki: Stone Meadow: What's the difference?

Who gets paid.


KyDave: Stone Meadow: This is the part I don't get: you poop and pee in a hole in the ground under your outhouse, and the waste liquid seeps directly into the ground. The indissolvable solids actually remain in the hole.

Or...you poop and pee into a toilet, which runs out to a tank buried in the ground, from which pipes allow the waste liquid to seep directly into the ground. The indissolvable solids actually remain in the tank.

What's the difference?

About $20k.

/ Oh - and bureaucratic approval.
// We've got some weird hybrid system - the liquids get pumped to treatment facility, the solids stay and we havta' pump them out every 4-5 years. The worst of both worlds: Sewage charges AND septic pumping.


Yeah...that's what I thought. Thanks...I think. ;^)
 
2013-04-29 04:22:28 PM  

Peki: BarkingUnicorn: He got a notice saying pump or pay over $1000 fine, even though he had nothing to pump.

And then when he told the county that, he was told "Put something in to pump!"

Which makes this sound exactly like a cash grab, and not a legitimate environmental concern.

(yourenothelping.jpg)


Might have been cheaper to pay a pump service to do nothing and mail the receipt to the township.
 
2013-04-29 05:10:01 PM  
Quit taking a crap at your place.

Go to City Hall instead, they have bathrooms
 
2013-04-29 05:10:28 PM  

jtown: Marcus Aurelius: $20k seems a bit steep for a shiat hole.

Dad just put one in at his new place.  $11,700 thanks to the new county regulations.  Says it would have been $3,000 a few years ago.  That's for a small, single-family house.  If the guy's on a sprawling farm property with multiple habitable dwellings, a septic system could easily run $20k.

It would be more cost-effective for him to get a porta potty.  Shouldn't cost him more than $50/visit to have it pumped.  I'll bet some local company would donate one to him for the good press.



Nice idea but I bet it would not pass regs.  No pooper and the state will pull his occupancy permit.
 
2013-04-29 05:23:36 PM  

Peki: BarkingUnicorn: He got a notice saying pump or pay over $1000 fine, even though he had nothing to pump.

And then when he told the county that, he was told "Put something in to pump!"

Which makes this sound exactly like a cash grab, and not a legitimate environmental concern.

(yourenothelping.jpg)


Since municipalities now seem to be claiming runoff and rain for their own, he should sue them for the pumping of "their" water from his septic system...

I suspect the demands would be a little less vocal after that.
 
2013-04-29 05:43:05 PM  

stevejovi: The systems with only one tank are anaerobic. These are the systems that need Rid-X from time to time, to help keep the bacteria levels up, and they have to be pumped out more often. As you might expect, they're quite a bit less expensive.


Nope, regular septics don't need Rid-X as long as you're not dumping gallons of bleach or motor oil down into them. As far as pumping it depends on how many people use it, ours gets pumped every 2-3 years but it's just me & the wife, a big family might need it once a year.
Rid-X is basically a scam, as long as you don't put anything down there that you didn't eat the bacteria will happily digest everything. It's actually illegal in this state but there's zero enforcement.

/took a course on septics for my real estate CE & know all the companies here
//so I can say I do know shiat
 
2013-04-29 06:05:09 PM  

semiotix: What I don't "understand" is the precise groundwater and geology situation on this guy's farm in Lancaster (PA?). But then neither does he, or you. It's knowable, but he doesn't know it. Yes, in point of actual fact, people digging holes to shiat in can impact other people's drinking water, or their own. Outhouses are not automatically guaranteed to be 100% safe for everyone concerned. Strange but true. And if anyone's going to fark this up, it's going to be the guy who thinks he knows the score better than some fancy bureaucrat with a fancy map drawn up by some fancy state geologist.


These.

All of these words.
 
2013-04-29 06:38:07 PM  
AndreMA:

Since municipalities now seem to be claiming runoff and rain for their own, he should sue them for the pumping of "their" water from his septic system...

True dat.

Indeed, there are some municipalities that disallow rainwater collection or prohibit private wells; the homeowners might own the land, but they don't own the water that falls on that land, the thinking goes...
 
2013-04-29 07:26:53 PM  
For clogging, slow drains, drain field failure visible by wet spots in your yard, use the all-natural advanced formula Septic-Helper 2000 and Enza drain line cleaner from MillerPlante.net, It has the 8 natural bacteria and enzymes that digest the waste in the tank and out in the drain field. To reduce your phosphate and nitrate levels to zero coming from your Laundry, use their new all-natural, allergen free Enza washer-balls. According to the EPA, chemicals used in the home are the #1 problem polluting water supplies and water wells.

The Enza Washer Balls, in contact with water, the ceramic contained in the Laundry Ball releases electrons, thus forming active oxygen and hydrogen peroxide (oxygenated water). The water that comes in contact with Washing Ball, either gains or loses electrons. The reaction generates powerful oxidized reducing power. The term oxidized reducing power means the phenomena that gives or receives electrons to a substance. When a substance loses electrons by combining with oxygen, it is called oxidization, and the phenomenon receiving the electrons that lose oxygen is called reduction. The electrons, released from the ceramic, dissolve the water (H2O), and perform purification repeatedly with the chemical reaction with the hydrogen-generated ion and the active oxygen provided with electrons.

New federal and state regulations require cleaning up their water supplies of nitrates. It mandates new inspections on all septic systems, water wells and with funding, local waterways. A failed inspection would include a slow drain in your leach field, low septic tank bacteria levels or elevated Nitrate levels in your Water Well or local Water Supplies; could require replacement of your entire system for $10K to $80K+ or connect to the city sewer system for $5K to $40K. The new inspections are failing 12% of systems each year and 82% of those older than 1977. Contact your local County Health Department for more information on regulations in your area.
 
2013-04-29 07:35:55 PM  

stevejovi: Anyone who believes that gubbermints and health departments only have septic and sewer requirements as a "cash grab" need only visit India to understand WHY those things are required here. The smell hits you INSTANTLY when they open the plane's door.

Cholera ain't no joke.


Yup 140 acre farms are just like Indian slums.
 
2013-04-29 08:19:40 PM  

Cedar_Publishing: The term oxidized reducing power means the phenomena that gives or receives electrons to a substance.


You know what else oxidization is a term for?

Burning. As in flames.

That made your post infinitely more amusing.

/shiat's on FIRE!
 
2013-04-29 08:45:32 PM  

Frantic Freddie: stevejovi: The systems with only one tank are anaerobic. These are the systems that need Rid-X from time to time, to help keep the bacteria levels up, and they have to be pumped out more often. As you might expect, they're quite a bit less expensive.

Nope, regular septics don't need Rid-X as long as you're not dumping gallons of bleach or motor oil down into them. As far as pumping it depends on how many people use it, ours gets pumped every 2-3 years but it's just me & the wife, a big family might need it once a year.
Rid-X is basically a scam, as long as you don't put anything down there that you didn't eat the bacteria will happily digest everything. It's actually illegal in this state but there's zero enforcement.

/took a course on septics for my real estate CE & know all the companies here
//so I can say I do know shiat


I've always heard conflicting stories about the usefulness of Rid-X and the like, but I always went ahead and used it in the anaerobic system at my first home. I figured it couldn't hurt. But your counter makes perfect sense.

/learn something new every day
 
2013-04-29 08:49:37 PM  

thisisarepeat: stevejovi: Anyone who believes that gubbermints and health departments only have septic and sewer requirements as a "cash grab" need only visit India to understand WHY those things are required here. The smell hits you INSTANTLY when they open the plane's door.

Cholera ain't no joke.

Yup 140 acre farms are just like Indian slums.


I never said it was. But if you let this guy get away with it, then why not his neighbors on the 30 acre farm? Everybody in the county? The whole state? Pretty soon, you've got Mumbai. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to decide?

Easier just to make the same rules for everybody, and enforce them for everyone.

/cuz that's what always happens
 
2013-04-29 09:00:09 PM  
stevejovi:

Anyone who believes that gubbermints and health departments only have septic and sewer requirements as a "cash grab" need only visit India to understand WHY those things are required here. The smell hits you INSTANTLY when they open the plane's door.

This guy doesn't live in India. He's one old guy in a rural district in PA in the middle of a farm. And the outhouse has been there for decades. This is not an URGENT PUBLIC HEALTH!!! issue, it's adherence to a stupid regulation. Which costs an old guy a whole lot of money and doesn't benefit anybody except the septic system sellers.

How much can one old guy possibly poop? For fark's sake he's 77.

When he dies take the outhose down and fill in the hole. Till then leave him alone.
 
2013-04-29 09:10:31 PM  

The One True TheDavid: stevejovi:

Anyone who believes that gubbermints and health departments only have septic and sewer requirements as a "cash grab" need only visit India to understand WHY those things are required here. The smell hits you INSTANTLY when they open the plane's door.

This guy doesn't live in India. He's one old guy in a rural district in PA in the middle of a farm. And the outhouse has been there for decades. This is not an URGENT PUBLIC HEALTH!!! issue, it's adherence to a stupid regulation. Which costs an old guy a whole lot of money and doesn't benefit anybody except the septic system sellers.

How much can one old guy possibly poop? For fark's sake he's 77.

When he dies take the outhose down and fill in the hole. Till then leave him alone.


So you let one guy foul the groundwater, you have to let EVERYBODY do it. It's only fair, right?
 
2013-04-29 10:02:39 PM  

stevejovi: The One True TheDavid:

When he dies take the outhose down and fill in the hole. Till then leave him alone.

So you let one guy foul the groundwater, you have to let EVERYBODY do it. It's only fair, right?


No. You don't.

This presumably is news because very few people in that area use outhouses anymore: the article is written like his is the only one and he's the only one using it. If so leaving him to squeeze out an occasional acorn in peace for the the few years he's got left, and then taking down the outhouse and filling in the hole, will handle the problem.

Sewer and septic systems have definite public health advantages, and most people who have the option prefer indoor plumbing anyway. But in this case, one outhouse for one old coot in the middle of a hog & crop farm won't hurt anything.

If the issue really is an overwhelmingly important major public health threat then for pete's sake they should donate the damn septic tank.
 
2013-04-29 10:26:43 PM  

HiFiGuy: Show of hands: Who here has a septic tank + well water?

/The circle of life is complete.


*raises hand*

On a 45 acre farm no less.  The trick is that you put the drainfield somewhere that isn't right on top of your well.

Probably wouldn't matter, though, the well is 362 feet deep.  By the time the shiatwater would make it down there I'd say it's been pretty well filtered.
 
2013-04-29 10:47:14 PM  

Lsherm: Probably wouldn't matter, though, the well is 362 feet deep.  By the time the shiatwater would make it down there I'd say it's been pretty well filtered.


Let's see if some TFer will find the recent story about water running downhill. Scientists measured viruses in drinking well water which had come from leaking sewage pipes. They were able to track the pulses of different viruses in the two systems.
 
2013-04-30 04:38:37 AM  

stevejovi: thisisarepeat: stevejovi: Anyone who believes that gubbermints and health departments only have septic and sewer requirements as a "cash grab" need only visit India to understand WHY those things are required here. The smell hits you INSTANTLY when they open the plane's door.

Cholera ain't no joke.

Yup 140 acre farms are just like Indian slums.

I never said it was. But if you let this guy get away with it, then why not his neighbors on the 30 acre farm? Everybody in the county? The whole state? Pretty soon, you've got Mumbai. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to decide?

Easier just to make the same rules for everybody, and enforce them for everyone.

/cuz that's what always happens


Easier to do.  Not easier to justify.  People expect justice in this country.  At least in places where the population is so dense as to have 1 person on 140 acres.

He's 77 and shiats in an outhouse, how farking awesome is you're outlet mall that we should fark this old man so you can get richer?
 
2013-04-30 08:34:00 PM  

WelldeadLink: Lsherm: Probably wouldn't matter, though, the well is 362 feet deep.  By the time the shiatwater would make it down there I'd say it's been pretty well filtered.

Let's see if some TFer will find the recent story about water running downhill. Scientists measured viruses in drinking well water which had come from leaking sewage pipes. They were able to track the pulses of different viruses in the two systems.


Yeah, but how far down was the well?  How close were the sewage pipes?  How much sewage flowed out the leak on a continuous basis?  Was the well below a sheet of rock?

Either way, our well is on the high end of the property, the drain field is on the other side of the house on the low end, and everything runs downhill into the river eventually.  Don't put your sewage near your well, and you'll be fine.
 
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