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(Escapist Magazine)   Developer releases cracked bugged version of "Game Developer Tycoon" that dooms the player to losing to piracy   (escapistmagazine.com) divider line 174
    More: Silly, Game Dev Tycoon, pirate game, game development, BitTorrent tracker, adaptations  
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2962 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Apr 2013 at 12:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-29 11:27:18 AM  
FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games
 
2013-04-29 11:52:18 AM  
"Game Dev Tycoon"?

I'm pretty sure no one except Activision's CEO is anywhere close to being a "Game Dev Tycoon".

/and then there's Curt Schilling
 
2013-04-29 11:54:20 AM  

cman: FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games


I never heard of the game or its studio. I've heard of Pirate Bay. If I see a game at the top of the download list, but have never heard of it or its studio, downloading the game to try it out is pretty common, especially when it's the developers that put it on there. But if gameplay is crippled by an intentional bug (and I'm given no clue that the bug exists on purpose), I'll either assume the same bug exists on the retail copy and not purchase it, or assume the developers were being dicks and not purchase it. Plus there's no way to know if that 6.4% actually pirated it first before purchasing.

Pirate Bay can be a great way to advertise your stuff, provided you embrace them and not try to screw them.

Let's wait for it to hit Steam (another article said it was on greenlight) before judging the sales.
 
2013-04-29 12:00:55 PM  
FTA:

"If years down the track you wonder why there are no games like these anymore and all you get to play is pay-to-play and social games designed to suck money out of your pockets then the reason will stare back at you in the mirror," warns Klugg, on a  to specifically target people looking for a cracked version, asking them nicely to reconsider.

The future may be better than this guy's predicting: kickstarter and crowdfunding may lead to the democratization of game dev, where games that get made are the ones that the public actually wants to play (and therefore fund) as opposed to whatever dreck the corporate types decide to shovel out.  If that's the case, then this may be a further way of limiting the destructive effects of endemic piracy since studios get paid up front to make a game.

Unfortunately, kickstarter projects top out at ~$2M, which is not enough cash to make anything more than small scope games.  Most of the titles I've worked on have been (based on public comments from the studio head) $5-10M and even that felt constrained while working on the project.

In most cases that I'm aware of, a game dev studio hits kickstarter to get the last few M to get the project out the door, after already investing everything they can in it.  Of course, this means that if the kickstarter fails, then the company goes under. So maybe not much is going to change there, either.

Regardless, people will always come up with some excuse to not pay for the games they play.

/game dev with a lot of unemployed friends
 
2013-04-29 12:21:16 PM  

cman: FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games


I question the piracy rate claim.  I also question why anyone would buy a moronic game like that to start with.
 
2013-04-29 12:48:41 PM  
As amusing as it is... I think that the real problem is that people are playing a game like this to begin with.
 
2013-04-29 12:56:28 PM  
You guys remember DOOM?

Most popular game in the universe for most of the 90s.  EVERYBODY had the shareware version.  The full version and DOOM2 were probably the most pirated software in the world from '93 to '96.  No copy protection at ALL - got four or five floppy discs?  ARJ that sucker up and have fun!

Yet id still made an unholy assload of money off it.

Piracy hurts, sure, but it doesn't kill.

/Man, I'm having flashbacks to the ASCII loading screens for some reason...
 
2013-04-29 12:58:36 PM  

scottydoesntknow: cman: FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games

I never heard of the game or its studio. I've heard of Pirate Bay. If I see a game at the top of the download list, but have never heard of it or its studio, downloading the game to try it out is pretty common, especially when it's the developers that put it on there. But if gameplay is crippled by an intentional bug (and I'm given no clue that the bug exists on purpose), I'll either assume the same bug exists on the retail copy and not purchase it, or assume the developers were being dicks and not purchase it. Plus there's no way to know if that 6.4% actually pirated it first before purchasing.

Pirate Bay can be a great way to advertise your stuff, provided you embrace them and not try to screw them.

Let's wait for it to hit Steam (another article said it was on greenlight) before judging the sales.


^

Piracy is a great marketing tool.  DRM will always be ridiculous.
 
2013-04-29 01:02:20 PM  
Piracy is great until it's something that you've made being pirated.
 
2013-04-29 01:04:35 PM  
Oh yeah, there's the other thing.

Number of games I pirated before Steam: most of the ones I wanted to play
Number of games I pirated since Steam:  Zero.  None.  Nada.
Number of games I bought on steam sales for $5: ALL OF THE DAMN THINGS

Make your content available easily and cheaply, and people will throw money at you rather than go through the hassles of piracy.

/I'm up to Fallout New Vegas now.  Should get to games from 2012 by the end of the year.
 
2013-04-29 01:06:15 PM  
That *is* kind of funny, though.
 
2013-04-29 01:06:27 PM  
Its always funny with devs do that, the meta-irony of this particular one is great.  This isn't the sort of game I think I'd like or buy in the first place but yah I'm kinda done with the whole downloading them off torrent sites thing too, there's too many good games that I want to support and pay for to bother stealing the latest Madden's call of honour XXVI  that I know I wouldn't even play due to how bland it is.

Having said that:  Unknown company releasing a product with no ability to demo it first?  You got exactly what you deserve.


DemonEater: You guys remember DOOM?

Most popular game in the universe for most of the 90s.  EVERYBODY had the shareware version.  The full version and DOOM2 were probably the most pirated software in the world from '93 to '96.  No copy protection at ALL - got four or five floppy discs?  ARJ that sucker up and have fun!

Yet id still made an unholy assload of money off it.

Piracy hurts, sure, but it doesn't kill.

/Man, I'm having flashbacks to the ASCII loading screens for some reason...


Back then it was a little harder to mass-distribute the ill-gotten warez.  For every dorm floor that had one legit copy spread around to a dozen friend there were significant amount of homes that bought it because that's what you do to get games when you aren't a BBSing/newsgroup surfin' cyber-nerd.  These days it just takes one ass with a net connection to upload one copy and it spreads like wildfire.  Also back then there wasn't such an culture where every app/song/game/site is free (in either as beer or as it sells you as its product) and the idea of paying for anything is just straight up alien.
 
2013-04-29 01:07:01 PM  

DemonEater: You guys remember DOOM?

Most popular game in the universe for most of the 90s.  EVERYBODY had the shareware version.  The full version and DOOM2 were probably the most pirated software in the world from '93 to '96.  No copy protection at ALL - got four or five floppy discs?  ARJ that sucker up and have fun!

Yet id still made an unholy assload of money off it.

Piracy hurts, sure, but it doesn't kill.

/Man, I'm having flashbacks to the ASCII loading screens for some reason...


Also Minecraft. Estimates are that it's around a 70% piracy rate, but Notch doesn't care at all. Those 30% are more important to him. And he's still making money hand over fist.

"Piracy will win in the long run. It has to. The alternative is too scary."
-Notch
 
2013-04-29 01:07:53 PM  
So a game that isn't on Steam (the single largest PC game distributor) has a low number of paying customers?

I'm shocked, shocked by this news.   I'm also equally shocked that someone expected people to pay for yet-another-crappy tycoon game that you'd swear was shiat out of some "Tycoon toolkit" because there are a plethora of equally shiat tycoon games that have appeared recently. 

Perhaps this guy needs to go talk to the two who made Space, Pirates and Zombies.  They'll tell you a lovely tale about Impulse vs Steam and how that correlates to both piracy and number of sales, the 'tldr' being:  Get you game on Steam before biatching about either.
 
2013-04-29 01:08:22 PM  

DemonEater: Oh yeah, there's the other thing.

Number of games I pirated before Steam: most of the ones I wanted to play
Number of games I pirated since Steam:  Zero.  None.  Nada.
Number of games I bought on steam sales for $5: ALL OF THE DAMN THINGS

Make your content available easily and cheaply, and people will throw money at you rather than go through the hassles of piracy.

/I'm up to Fallout New Vegas now.  Should get to games from 2012 by the end of the year.


This.  Really, if I want a game bad enough, I will pay the full price and have at it.  If not, I just wait for GOTY editions and/or sales on Steam.
 
2013-04-29 01:17:25 PM  
 I haven't played a pirated game in years and years, love steam and the sales.  I"ve come to some conclusions about games in judging whether they're worth playing.  Have a demo?  No, then highly likely a piece of garbage (see Simcity, LOTR3, many others).  Cost more than $50 & not one of the most anticipated AAA titles?  No, then the studio thinks too highly of themselves and wait 3 months for it to be in the $5 sale-bin.  Cost more than $50 & a highly anticipated AAA title?  yes, then wait 8-12 months for a $15-20 sale and let all the bugs work out.

My last game purchase was cities in motion for $15, it is a GREAT game by a great small studio.
 
2013-04-29 01:19:01 PM  
BumpInTheNight:
Back then it was a little harder to mass-distribute the ill-gotten warez.

Easier actually IMHO.  These days you need to know places like TPB exist, you need to know you need a torrent client and so on.  Exact same thing really for newsgroups before people say it.

In days of old you'd simply send a SAE with a floppy disk on it to an advert in the back of a newspaper (national at that) and it'd reappear with their price list on it a few days later.   After that you just order what you want and pay the guy with a cheque.

If that was too much like hard work you could go to the local market or car boot sale and you'd find someone selling copies of 'Photoshop' or similar that weren't on disks that'd been written on with a sharpie.

Later on in the late 90's when CD's became cheaper you'd find bundles that themselves had brand names, things like the 'Blobby' series (names after Mr. Blobby a character from a UK TV show of the time) were very popular.

And that's without BBS's (which really were tiny).
 
2013-04-29 01:25:01 PM  
Why don't they just read the bible? I'm sure there are descriptions of the what colors dinosaurs were or how they tasted or how they were used to carry the disciples over long distances.
 
2013-04-29 01:26:41 PM  

toraque: FTA:

"Unfortunately, kickstarter projects top out at ~$2M, which is not enough cash to make anything more than small scope games.  Most of the titles I've worked on have been (based on public comments from the studio head) $5-10M and even that felt constrained while working on the project.

In most cases that I'm aware of, a game dev studio hits kickstarter to get the last few M to get the project out the door, after already investing everything they can in it.  Of course, this means that if the kickstarter fails, then the company goes under. So maybe not much is going to change there, either."


Did you miss the part where the kickstarter for the sequel to Privateer cleared 9 million dollars? While true, the money was gathered through campaigns both on their website and on kickstarter, the money is definitely out there to fund large projects.

http://robertsspaceindustries.com/
 
2013-04-29 01:27:09 PM  
I feel sorry for game devs, but not sorry enough to buy a game infected with DRM.  Of course, that means I don't get to play many big-studio games but there are so many excellent non-DRM games out there that I don't even notice.
 
2013-04-29 01:32:28 PM  

Vaneshi: BumpInTheNight:
Back then it was a little harder to mass-distribute the ill-gotten warez.

Easier actually IMHO.  These days you need to know places like TPB exist, you need to know you need a torrent client and so on.  Exact same thing really for newsgroups before people say it.

In days of old you'd simply send a SAE with a floppy disk on it to an advert in the back of a newspaper (national at that) and it'd reappear with their price list on it a few days later.   After that you just order what you want and pay the guy with a cheque.

If that was too much like hard work you could go to the local market or car boot sale and you'd find someone selling copies of 'Photoshop' or similar that weren't on disks that'd been written on with a sharpie.

Later on in the late 90's when CD's became cheaper you'd find bundles that themselves had brand names, things like the 'Blobby' series (names after Mr. Blobby a character from a UK TV show of the time) were very popular.

And that's without BBS's (which really were tiny).


Okay okay easier as in less smarts needed to do it, but in terms of sheer laziness neither of those trump the concept of:
overhearing someone mention TPB in person or on a forum like you just did
visit the site and learn you need a piece of freeware to use it, download said freeware.
permanent & instant access to the internet's finest stolen goods, as quick to use as your internet connection.
(elapsed time:  5-10 minutes for a savvy user who likely already did this when they were 12, maybe a half hour for an unsavvy user and depending on how fast they realize they have to DL the MacOS versions of everything)

On the note of laziness I think the online game purchase companies managed to get me because unlike some seeds they always had awesome download speeds and I didn't have to fret about with crap like patches vs cracks for them and all the rest of the song & dance around skirting newer forms of DRM.  Laziness for the win :P
 
2013-04-29 01:33:31 PM  
I'm surprised the developer was proactive enough to bother to do all this shiat considering it's usually them that gets screwed by the publisher. I guess they're starting to sympathize with their captors.
 
2013-04-29 01:36:05 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Its always funny with devs do that, the meta-irony of this particular one is great.  This isn't the sort of game I think I'd like or buy in the first place but yah I'm kinda done with the whole downloading them off torrent sites thing too, there's too many good games that I want to support and pay for to bother stealing the latest Madden's call of honour XXVI  that I know I wouldn't even play due to how bland it is.

Having said that:  Unknown company releasing a product with no ability to demo it first?  You got exactly what you deserve.


DemonEater: You guys remember DOOM?

Most popular game in the universe for most of the 90s.  EVERYBODY had the shareware version.  The full version and DOOM2 were probably the most pirated software in the world from '93 to '96.  No copy protection at ALL - got four or five floppy discs?  ARJ that sucker up and have fun!

Yet id still made an unholy assload of money off it.

Piracy hurts, sure, but it doesn't kill.

/Man, I'm having flashbacks to the ASCII loading screens for some reason...

Back then it was a little harder to mass-distribute the ill-gotten warez.  For every dorm floor that had one legit copy spread around to a dozen friend there were significant amount of homes that bought it because that's what you do to get games when you aren't a BBSing/newsgroup surfin' cyber-nerd.  These days it just takes one ass with a net connection to upload one copy and it spreads like wildfire.  Also back then there wasn't such an culture where every app/song/game/site is free (in either as beer or as it sells you as its product) and the idea of paying for anything is just straight up alien.


Leisure suit Larry at one point held the record for being massively pirated
 
2013-04-29 01:38:53 PM  

DemonEater: Oh yeah, there's the other thing.

Number of games I pirated before Steam: most of the ones I wanted to play
Number of games I pirated since Steam:  Zero.  None.  Nada.
Number of games I bought on steam sales for $5: ALL OF THE DAMN THINGS

Make your content available easily and cheaply, and people will throw money at you rather than go through the hassles of piracy.

/I'm up to Fallout New Vegas now.  Should get to games from 2012 by the end of the year.


Last Christmas, during a Steamsale, I spent $50 buying copies of Echo the Dolphin for people on my friends list.
 
2013-04-29 01:39:10 PM  

Vaneshi: These days you need to know places like TPB exist, you need to know you need a torrent client and so on. Exact same thing really for newsgroups before people say it.


Only now all you need to do is type 'fee [name of game]' into a search engine and you can find sites for this, or people giving instructions to TPB, plus numerous how to guides.  I lost my copy of Final Fire Pro, and within 15 minutes I had a copy with and english translation patch.  No need to check ads in a paper or send a SAE to anyone.

I wouldn't say harder, but if you don't know what your doing there are certainly more risks involved in terms of malware.

scottydoesntknow: "Piracy will win in the long run. It has to. The alternative is too scary."
-Notch


The article he wrote about that was using piracy more to explain it as a digital distribution service, and that in the long run people will need to think around that by providing services that would require the game to connect online to the game server to give a reason for people to actually purchase the game.  One example he used was online saving, and there are people who would consider that to be DRM.

Regardless of the data he used (yeah, TPB and torrents are a larger distribution network than his website, I don't think that proves much until he adds his game to a similarly large distribution network) the responses players had to their fake studios game being pirated are great.
 
2013-04-29 01:48:55 PM  

Wait, I take back my comment about how they deserve to be pirated by not releasing a demo, if you visit their real site they have a link that mentions a demo is available...but when you go to try it:


The page you are looking for is temporarily unavailable.
Please try again later.



...so they're stealing from EA's playbook it seems.  Clever lads, this is surely to get the results they're after.
 
2013-04-29 01:49:29 PM  

bennett311: DemonEater: Oh yeah, there's the other thing.

Number of games I pirated before Steam: most of the ones I wanted to play
Number of games I pirated since Steam:  Zero.  None.  Nada.
Number of games I bought on steam sales for $5: ALL OF THE DAMN THINGS

Make your content available easily and cheaply, and people will throw money at you rather than go through the hassles of piracy.

/I'm up to Fallout New Vegas now.  Should get to games from 2012 by the end of the year.

This.  Really, if I want a game bad enough, I will pay the full price and have at it.  If not, I just wait for GOTY editions and/or sales on Steam.


Seconded. Times are hard. Most of the people that are at an age where they've been gamers all their lives, and that are most likely to know how to pirate things (13 year olds with mommy and daddy's disposable income that only know how to turn on their console and put games in don't count), don't have a whole lot of money to throw around for entertainment. Of course, the right thing to do would just be to go without, but wanting the shiniest, newest games to take your mind off of the bombings, shootings, and other crap that goes on almost every day...well, it's human.

Jacking prices up, nickel-and-diming bullshiat, and screwing over paying customers with spyware and massive inconvenience is not the way to stop that. Offering good value and a worthwhile service is the way to open wallets. I can't even remember the last time I pre-ordered a game, but a free copy of the original BioShock and XCOM Enemy Unknown sold me on BioShock Infinite (which was quite good). And c'mon, Empire Total War for $2.50? I almost dread the big Steam sales because I know I'll wind up spending waaaaaaay more than I ever should.

Steam is doing it right. EA and Activision are swimming upstream, and if they don't knock it off, they're going under. Maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but eventually.
 
2013-04-29 01:55:08 PM  

bennett311: This. Really, if I want a game bad enough, I will pay the full price and have at it. If not, I just wait for GOTY editions and/or sales on Steam.


shiat; I wait for GOTY/steam sales now largely because of DLC.

fark you, game devs.  I want to play the entire game once (maybe 2-3 times if it's f'ing awesome) and I want to play the ENTIRE game then.  Not in little 10 minute DLC expansions spread over a damn year.
 
2013-04-29 01:55:35 PM  
Maybe the low purchase rate of the game is because the game looks sucky?

And maybe the high piracy rate is because people will try out something for free, even if it sucks, before moving on to something better?

Stupid argument. Next.
 
2013-04-29 01:59:34 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Vaneshi: BumpInTheNight:
Back then it was a little harder to mass-distribute the ill-gotten warez.

Easier actually IMHO.  These days you need to know places like TPB exist, you need to know you need a torrent client and so on.  Exact same thing really for newsgroups before people say it.

In days of old you'd simply send a SAE with a floppy disk on it to an advert in the back of a newspaper (national at that) and it'd reappear with their price list on it a few days later.   After that you just order what you want and pay the guy with a cheque.

If that was too much like hard work you could go to the local market or car boot sale and you'd find someone selling copies of 'Photoshop' or similar that weren't on disks that'd been written on with a sharpie.

Later on in the late 90's when CD's became cheaper you'd find bundles that themselves had brand names, things like the 'Blobby' series (names after Mr. Blobby a character from a UK TV show of the time) were very popular.

And that's without BBS's (which really were tiny).

Okay okay easier as in less smarts needed to do it, but in terms of sheer laziness neither of those trump the concept of:
overhearing someone mention TPB in person or on a forum like you just did
visit the site and learn you need a piece of freeware to use it, download said freeware.
permanent & instant access to the internet's finest stolen goods, as quick to use as your internet connection.
(elapsed time:  5-10 minutes for a savvy user who likely already did this when they were 12, maybe a half hour for an unsavvy user and depending on how fast they realize they have to DL the MacOS versions of everything)

On the note of laziness I think the online game purchase companies managed to get me because unlike some seeds they always had awesome download speeds and I didn't have to fret about with crap like patches vs cracks for them and all the rest of the song & dance around skirting newer forms of DRM.  Laziness for the win :P


not to mention with TPB you have to worry about being hassled by your ISP.

/enjoys my private tracker
//DRM makes me pirate your shiat, no DRM?  I buy it.
///why?  because fark you for assuming I'd be dishonest with my purchase.
 
2013-04-29 02:01:51 PM  

cman: FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games


No no, see, it's not the players fault. They're only pirating the game because of how terrible it is! Or they can't afford $50 because their mom is having surgery! Or they just wanted to try it out for 90 hours to be sure they really liked it! Or they're just making a political statement because the developer once thought about using a publisher who has a benefits person in their HR department who was mean to a barista one time!

Piracy is NEVER the players fault. I mean, what do you expect them to do, make informed choices about their entertainment media purchases with their limited finances, then adjust their future purchases accordingly based on their enjoyment of the game? That might mean that a player would have to *GASP* not play some games! Or even worse, wait to play certain games until they can afford to purchase them!
 
2013-04-29 02:02:39 PM  
I  have a game on the Android App store and it's heartbreaking to see every new version I post end up on a torrent sit in a matter of hours.  My sales in the Google Play store were good for awhile but once the cracked version hit, it slowed to a fraction of what it was.   Sales in the other stores are all still good, thankfully.
 
2013-04-29 02:02:48 PM  

Vaneshi: So a game that isn't on Steam (the single largest PC game distributor) has a low number of paying customers?

I'm shocked, shocked by this news.   I'm also equally shocked that someone expected people to pay for yet-another-crappy tycoon game that you'd swear was shiat out of some "Tycoon toolkit" because there are a plethora of equally shiat tycoon games that have appeared recently. 

Perhaps this guy needs to go talk to the two who made Space, Pirates and Zombies.  They'll tell you a lovely tale about Impulse vs Steam and how that correlates to both piracy and number of sales, the 'tldr' being:  Get you game on Steam before biatching about either.


I just wanted to say THIS. ↑↑↑↑↑
 
2013-04-29 02:08:27 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Wait, I take back my comment about how they deserve to be pirated by not releasing a demo, if you visit their real site they have a link that mentions a demo is available...but when you go to try it:


The page you are looking for is temporarily unavailable.
Please try again later.


...so they're stealing from EA's playbook it seems.  Clever lads, this is surely to get the results they're after.


Have you ever heard of a term called "Farked"?
 
2013-04-29 02:09:16 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com


/also a cheap bastard that won't buy games until they go on sale on Steam.  Generally...
 
2013-04-29 02:16:31 PM  

cman: Have you ever heard of a term called "Farked"?


Is it my fault their method of legit purchase is poorly thought out and can't handle the attention they've brought upon  themselves?  Nope, all I see is an EA-like "We apologize for how popular we are, but we're not going to fix things because that costs money but you haven't given us enough of yours yet."  If only they used a proper online distributor, one that could handle the crush of a kockatu article mention.  I'm sure such a thing is just vapor and steam though.
 
2013-04-29 02:20:47 PM  

jayhawk88: cman: FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games

No no, see, it's not the players fault. They're only pirating the game because of how terrible it is! Or they can't afford $50 because their mom is having surgery! Or they just wanted to try it out for 90 hours to be sure they really liked it! Or they're just making a political statement because the developer once thought about using a publisher who has a benefits person in their HR department who was mean to a barista one time!

Piracy is NEVER the players fault. I mean, what do you expect them to do, make informed choices about their entertainment media purchases with their limited finances, then adjust their future purchases accordingly based on their enjoyment of the game? That might mean that a player would have to *GASP* not play some games! Or even worse, wait to play certain games until they can afford to purchase them!


I don't think it's possible to make an informed choice. Reviews are horseshiat. An 8/10 is a bad game. Kotaku has seriously condensed reviews down to YES or NO. Trailers are 5-10% gameplay and demos are few and far between because it shows what a shiatty game they made or what a shiatty demo they made.

Pirates are just apathetic. If the game sucks they will stop playing it, rather than punishing themselves for 15 more hours like I did with the garbage that is assassins creed 3.
 
2013-04-29 02:22:18 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I never heard of the game or its studio. I've heard of Pirate Bay. If I see a game at the top of the download list, but have never heard of it or its studio, downloading the game to try it out is pretty common, especially when it's the developers that put it on there. But if gameplay is crippled by an intentional bug (and I'm given no clue that the bug exists on purpose), I'll either assume the same bug exists on the retail copy and not purchase it, or assume the developers were being dicks and not purchase it. Plus there's no way to know if that 6.4% actually pirated it first before purchasing.


Just statistics:
"Try Before you Buy" - Just an Excuse to Steal?However, the most interesting finding was the one where the "try before you buy" mentality was exposed as being a myth. Despite jailbreakers' claims that the need to "demo" an app is among their top reasons for pirating, Pinch Media found that this simply wasn't the case. To test this, they set a baseline for typical conversion rates of legitimate "lite" to paid applications and found that the conversion rate there is 7.4%. That means about 1 in 14 who try the "lite" version go on to purchase the paid version. However, among the pirate community, pirated-to-legitimate conversions are 0.43%. That's only 1 in about 233 installations. In other words, few users of pirated apps are truly "trying before they buy," they're just trying.
 
2013-04-29 02:23:32 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Estimates are that it's around a 70% piracy rate, but Notch doesn't care at all. Those 30% are more important to him. And he's still making money hand over fist.


The idea that every pirated copy is a lost sale is deeply misleading. It creates a sense of loss when no actual loss has actually occurred. Companies would be better served focusing on the sales they can make.

I refuse to set up a Windows partition, so I only pirate software that isn't released for my OS. Generally, the fan-made WineSkin ports are pretty reliable, or have minor, but predictable bugs.
 
2013-04-29 02:24:03 PM  

DemonEater: You guys remember DOOM?

Most popular game in the universe for most of the 90s.  EVERYBODY had the shareware version.  The full version and DOOM2 were probably the most pirated software in the world from '93 to '96.  No copy protection at ALL - got four or five floppy discs?  ARJ that sucker up and have fun!

Yet id still made an unholy assload of money off it.

Piracy hurts, sure, but it doesn't kill.

/Man, I'm having flashbacks to the ASCII loading screens for some reason...


I bought a copy of that game on CD in a local computer store.  Found out later that they never made a CD version of the game.  you'd never know it.  CD came in a box with professional looking instruction manual and CD with graphics from the game printed on it just like it was from the manufacturer.  I talked to the people at the store about it later and they said they bought them from a distributor not realizing that they were illegal copies.  I still have it somewhere.
 
2013-04-29 02:24:07 PM  

physt: I  have a game on the Android App store and it's heartbreaking to see every new version I post end up on a torrent sit in a matter of hours.  My sales in the Google Play store were good for awhile but once the cracked version hit, it slowed to a fraction of what it was.   Sales in the other stores are all still good, thankfully.


So what you're saying is that your sales are good for the first few hours ("a matter of hours")?  If you're not a major blockbuster with people knocking down your door for the next version, I somehow doubt that you'll even be noticed by a lot of people within your first month.

So, just for reference and a self-plug, what game(s) have you released?
 
2013-04-29 02:28:10 PM  

moothemagiccow: I don't think it's possible to make an informed choice. Reviews are horseshiat. An 8/10 is a bad game. Kotaku has seriously condensed reviews down to YES or NO. Trailers are 5-10% gameplay and demos are few and far between because it shows what a shiatty game they made or what a shiatty demo they made.


If only there was some kind of shared medium, accessible by thousands of gamers around the world, using various forums to express their opinions on recently released video games.
 
2013-04-29 02:29:53 PM  
img2u.info

The problem with this chart is...

1) It's the first day, and they "Zero-Day" released the alternate version as a pirate release. It's very possible more people were exposed to it on release day through scene pre- sites than they did through normal channels.
2) While this is actually a list of the people who PLAYED the alternate vs. purchased copies of the game, it doesn't represent the number of people who downloaded, but did not play the game (aka The Collectors), likewise, it also doesn't count people who purchased the game, but have not played it yet (like 90% of the games in my Steam library, LOL)
3) This chart will get far worse, as the news gets out - but how much of that will be "I just have to play the 'fake-cracked' version to see this!" versus actual pirates?

On the other hand, they are getting some great publicity. Publicity is everything.... if I had the sort of publicity they are getting for my iOS/Android Virtual Cat Toy app, I'd probably see thousands of downloads the next day - They'll probably see a 10x bump in sales for the next week or so as this story continues to get press. Let's hope it gets decent ratings.

It is an interesting take. Madonna released one of her albums on the torrents with some sort of annoying recurring noise in every song. Some games have stealth piracy detection routines (usually checking the hash of the launcher) that introduce impossible enemies after a number of levels and such.

It might serve them better if after the piracy event pops up, they labeled the bottom of the game with "Special Pirate Edition Downloaded from PirateBay" to let downloaders know they've been had, but this will certainly give them a nice boost they wouldn't have had otherwise.
 
2013-04-29 02:31:10 PM  

jayhawk88: moothemagiccow: I don't think it's possible to make an informed choice. Reviews are horseshiat. An 8/10 is a bad game. Kotaku has seriously condensed reviews down to YES or NO. Trailers are 5-10% gameplay and demos are few and far between because it shows what a shiatty game they made or what a shiatty demo they made.

If only there was some kind of shared medium, accessible by thousands of gamers around the world, using various forums to express their opinions on recently released video games.


And you don't think the larger ones are moderated by those in the employ of the companies being bribed to praise the game?
 
2013-04-29 02:31:51 PM  

SleepingEye: physt: I  have a game on the Android App store and it's heartbreaking to see every new version I post end up on a torrent sit in a matter of hours.  My sales in the Google Play store were good for awhile but once the cracked version hit, it slowed to a fraction of what it was.   Sales in the other stores are all still good, thankfully.

So what you're saying is that your sales are good for the first few hours ("a matter of hours")?  If you're not a major blockbuster with people knocking down your door for the next version, I somehow doubt that you'll even be noticed by a lot of people within your first month.

So, just for reference and a self-plug, what game(s) have you released?



I worded that poorly. Sales on the Google Play Store were good for months and then the game started to show up in the torrents, at which point, the sales fell. Now, whenever I upload a new update, the pirated version is up in a matter of hours.  I was thinking that releasing frequent updates with new features and add ons would encourage someone to buy it so they could get updates.


https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digitalcodeworks.s le nderman

lh6.ggpht.com
 
2013-04-29 02:32:18 PM  
Having bought the game a couple days ago (via the Microsoft Marketplace on my ARM Surface), I have to say it's a strangely addicting game. Complicated and fairly well thought out.

Review: 8.5 out of 10.

/good on them for releasing a version to out pirates.
 
2013-04-29 02:35:23 PM  

DemonEater: Oh yeah, there's the other thing.

Number of games I pirated before Steam: most of the ones I wanted to play
Number of games I pirated since Steam:  Zero.  None.  Nada.
Number of games I bought on steam sales for $5: ALL OF THE DAMN THINGS

Make your content available easily and cheaply, and people will throw money at you rather than go through the hassles of piracy.

/I'm up to Fallout New Vegas now.  Should get to games from 2012 by the end of the year.


THIS  (Except I can't recall if I had the shareware version of doom or a pirated version).

I did make images of legal copies of games requiring a CD key so I could play without swapping out the CD.

Freakin' Steam.  I've spent at least $100 on games I haven't installed and will never play (and $10 on hats).  My more recent major purchases have been set up under separate logins so I could theoretically sell them if I chose to.  I wanted to buy a 'used' copy of the latest Diablo before it was clear it wasn't any better than the demo version.  Also: Games need to be available to play offline.
 
2013-04-29 02:37:05 PM  

moothemagiccow: I don't think it's possible to make an informed choice. Reviews are horseshiat. An 8/10 is a bad game. Kotaku has seriously condensed reviews down to YES or NO. Trailers are 5-10% gameplay and demos are few and far between because it shows what a shiatty game they made or what a shiatty demo they made.

Pirates are just apathetic. If the game sucks they will stop playing it, rather than punishing themselves for 15 more hours like I did with the garbage that is assassins creed 3.


You know, that's a strong reason for why I rarely buy games at release or pre-order any more, ESPECIALLY first person shooters.  Reviews and past history of the developer seem to be meaningless for a lot of the industry.  SteamMetaScore seems fairly accurate generally, but the biggest factor for me lately  has been to look at who on my Steam friends list have bought/played the game and ask 'em.
 
2013-04-29 02:39:49 PM  
To everyone saying that they should reduce prices and sell the game cheap . . . it's $7.99. Not exactly breaking the bank.
 
2013-04-29 02:44:42 PM  

t3knomanser: scottydoesntknow: Estimates are that it's around a 70% piracy rate, but Notch doesn't care at all. Those 30% are more important to him. And he's still making money hand over fist.

The idea that every pirated copy is a lost sale is deeply misleading. It creates a sense of loss when no actual loss has actually occurred. Companies would be better served focusing on the sales they can make.

I refuse to set up a Windows partition, so I only pirate software that isn't released for my OS. Generally, the fan-made WineSkin ports are pretty reliable, or have minor, but predictable bugs.


Virtual machines work well for games if you have an awesome system. I can run GTAIV in Parallels (Parallels is a commercial virtual machine product for OS X) at medium settings without stuttering.
 
2013-04-29 02:47:05 PM  

MrSteve007: To everyone saying that they should reduce prices and sell the game cheap . . . it's $7.99. Not exactly breaking the bank.


And the game isn't exactly worth that much by all accounts.
 
2013-04-29 02:49:38 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Last Christmas, during a Steamsale, I spent $50 buying copies of Echo the Dolphin for people on my friends list.


I like your style!
 
2013-04-29 02:50:28 PM  

cman: Virtual machines work well for games if you have an awesome system. I can run GTAIV in Parallels (Parallels is a commercial virtual machine product for OS X) at medium settings without stuttering.


Although the D3D layer is built using wine, which whilst good and very capable in its own right, will often leave you with a black screen as certain (usually the not commonly used ones) D3D functions don't quite do what they should.

Parallels + SW:TOR was a black screen when I tried it as an example, although this was around the time of release of the game so I assume there is a more modern version of Parallels which has a newer version of wine inside it.
 
2013-04-29 02:50:31 PM  

physt: I  have a game on the Android App store and it's heartbreaking to see every new version I post end up on a torrent sit in a matter of hours.  My sales in the Google Play store were good for awhile but once the cracked version hit, it slowed to a fraction of what it was.   Sales in the other stores are all still good, thankfully.


What game, and do you have a demo version on the Google Play store? I'll give it a whirl.

I also downloaded the demo version of Game Dev Story. I played through the demo once or twice, but games on a cell phone are usually throw aways, so I can't see spending a lot of money on them. Even $2.99 is sometimes too much for some of the games on there. If I find something I really like, and I think I'll play for a long time, then maybe I'd pay for it, but I'm only busting out a game on my phone if I'm really bored, because I have better things to do when I'm at home. Its annoying to only be able to play a demo app, but honestly, most games just don't have the oomph to make me WANT to spend my money on them.

Every game I've played, save for a few, has fallen under the same 2 formulas:

1) Demo version that lets you play for so long or gives you just a taste of a game, hoping you'll buy the rest of it for little extras. Screensavers and other apps do this too.

2) Game is free, but in order to be competitive, you have to put money into the game to buy better items.

I have found very few games that are fun, don't REQUIRE me to pay money if I don't want to (either ad supported or have micro-transactions that don't feel like I NEED them in order to win).
 
2013-04-29 02:51:47 PM  

PanicMan: Satanic_Hamster: Last Christmas, during a Steamsale, I spent $50 buying copies of Echo the Dolphin for people on my friends list.

I like your style!


There were some complaints. 
"God dammit, Hamster!  If you were going to spend $0.75 on an old Sega game for me, you could have at least gotten me Altered Beast."
 
hej [TotalFark]
2013-04-29 02:51:59 PM  
Is this the thread where I get to rationalize and excuse what is obviously a pattern theivery?  Ok good.
 
2013-04-29 02:52:32 PM  
I pirate a few games. Like Crysis 3, I pirated that game. See $60 was an awful lot to pay for a benchmarking utility so I just pirated it played the first level and deleted it. I have no intention of finishing it, I will never buy anything on origin (sorry Battlefield 4) and I generally despise the gameplay of the Crysis games.

I also pirated Tropico 4 when I realized that I wasn't going to break my 'no origin' policy for sim city. I enjoyed it then I bought it on steam. I didn't even lose my save files.

I never would have bought Tropico 4 without knowing what it was about it didn't really appeal to me until I played it. I was never going to buy Crysis 3. So basically in my case I don't cheat the devs out of money that they were ever going to actually get anyway. Sometimes they get money because I did pirate their game.
 
2013-04-29 02:54:10 PM  

cman: Virtual machines work well for games if you have an awesome system


I spend all day developing software for Windows. By the time I get home, Windows is the last thing I want to associate with "fun". I end up missing out on a lot of games, but on the flip side- I save a lot of money. I just got a legit copy of X-Com, and the ability to nickname your soldiers is just a recipe for tragedy. I am so pissed at those damn aliens for killing Lt. Deal With It.
 
2013-04-29 02:55:39 PM  

hej: Is this the thread where I get to rationalize and excuse what is obviously a pattern theivery?  Ok good.


Actually its just us that can afford to goof off at work and have access to the internet so no its more a series of "I used to pirate but then I grew up" anecdotes.  Wait for the teenagers and shift-workers to finish up in about two hours, then we'll get into fullblown piracy isn't stealing warrgarbl I'm sure.
 
2013-04-29 02:56:04 PM  

Egoy3k: I pirate a few games. Like Crysis 3, I pirated that game. See $60 was an awful lot to pay for a benchmarking utility so I just pirated it played the first level and deleted it. I have no intention of finishing it, I will never buy anything on origin (sorry Battlefield 4) and I generally despise the gameplay of the Crysis games.

I also pirated Tropico 4 when I realized that I wasn't going to break my 'no origin' policy for sim city. I enjoyed it then I bought it on steam. I didn't even lose my save files.

I never would have bought Tropico 4 without knowing what it was about it didn't really appeal to me until I played it. I was never going to buy Crysis 3. So basically in my case I don't cheat the devs out of money that they were ever going to actually get anyway. Sometimes they get money because I did pirate their game.


Hell, I'd advocate pirating Crysis 3 after how much ****ing ass Crysis 2 sucked.  Especially after the drama bullshiat EA rolled out when they pulled it from Steam for a few years.

And fark Origin.
 
2013-04-29 02:58:42 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: And fark Origin.


Seconded.
 
2013-04-29 03:02:00 PM  

BumpInTheNight: then we'll get into fullblown piracy isn't stealing warrgarbl I'm sure.


Well, it  isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. To call it stealing is an insult to hardworking thieves who actually deprive people of property. Can you imagine how it must feel to a professional, someone who spends time honing their craft, to be put on the same level as an idiot who can click a button on a web page? There are people who spend years perfecting their mugging technique, or who have the gumption to walk into a bank armed with nothing but a threatening note and more guts than common sense. And what about the hard-working blokes who spend hours marching up and down the lanes at your local mall's parking lot, so that they can break a window and steal a forgotten cellphone or wallet?

Those people are stealing. They're doing something with their lives. Don't insult them by elevating copyright infringers.
 
2013-04-29 03:02:12 PM  
I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

1.bp.blogspot.com.
 
2013-04-29 03:02:55 PM  

MrSteve007: Having bought the game a couple days ago (via the Microsoft Marketplace on my ARM Surface), I have to say it's a strangely addicting game. Complicated and fairly well thought out.

Review: 8.5 out of 10.

/good on them for releasing a version to out pirates.



If that's what it actually looks like they should be happy they make any money of a completely blatant ripoff of Game Dev Story with a shinier coat of paint.
 
2013-04-29 03:06:01 PM  

t3knomanser: BumpInTheNight: then we'll get into fullblown piracy isn't stealing warrgarbl I'm sure.

Well, it  isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. To call it stealing is an insult to hardworking thieves who actually deprive people of property. Can you imagine how it must feel to a professional, someone who spends time honing their craft, to be put on the same level as an idiot who can click a button on a web page? There are people who spend years perfecting their mugging technique, or who have the gumption to walk into a bank armed with nothing but a threatening note and more guts than common sense. And what about the hard-working blokes who spend hours marching up and down the lanes at your local mall's parking lot, so that they can break a window and steal a forgotten cellphone or wallet?

Those people are stealing. They're doing something with their lives. Don't insult them by elevating copyright infringers.


I've...I've never looked at it that way before, you're so right.
 
2013-04-29 03:07:21 PM  
Does the game come with a "Skip playtesting phase and rush our bug ridden pos out the door" button?
 
2013-04-29 03:08:20 PM  

physt: I  have a game on the Android App store and it's heartbreaking to see every new version I post end up on a torrent sit in a matter of hours.  My sales in the Google Play store were good for awhile but once the cracked version hit, it slowed to a fraction of what it was.   Sales in the other stores are all still good, thankfully.


What game is it?
 
2013-04-29 03:11:39 PM  

Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].


Uh, what?  So you're saying that ever pirated copy was a guaranteed sale that would have otherwise happened?  That each sale results in a direct financial loss for the publisher?
 
2013-04-29 03:13:28 PM  

Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].


The problem with your rant is that car theft and video game piracy are not ever remotely similar.
 
2013-04-29 03:16:16 PM  

labman: DemonEater: You guys remember DOOM?

Most popular game in the universe for most of the 90s.  EVERYBODY had the shareware version.  The full version and DOOM2 were probably the most pirated software in the world from '93 to '96.  No copy protection at ALL - got four or five floppy discs?  ARJ that sucker up and have fun!

Yet id still made an unholy assload of money off it.

Piracy hurts, sure, but it doesn't kill.

/Man, I'm having flashbacks to the ASCII loading screens for some reason...

I bought a copy of that game on CD in a local computer store.  Found out later that they never made a CD version of the game.  you'd never know it.  CD came in a box with professional looking instruction manual and CD with graphics from the game printed on it just like it was from the manufacturer.  I talked to the people at the store about it later and they said they bought them from a distributor not realizing that they were illegal copies.  I still have it somewhere.


wut?  GT interactive released Doom and Doom 2 on cd.  I own both, bought retail at wal-mart.

what are you on about?

/will concede that my original zero day copy of Doom 2 came on a bunch of black floppies with red graphics.
 
2013-04-29 03:17:13 PM  

t3knomanser: BumpInTheNight: then we'll get into fullblown piracy isn't stealing warrgarbl I'm sure.

Well, it  isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. To call it stealing is an insult to hardworking thieves who actually deprive people of property. Can you imagine how it must feel to a professional, someone who spends time honing their craft, to be put on the same level as an idiot who can click a button on a web page? There are people who spend years perfecting their mugging technique, or who have the gumption to walk into a bank armed with nothing but a threatening note and more guts than common sense. And what about the hard-working blokes who spend hours marching up and down the lanes at your local mall's parking lot, so that they can break a window and steal a forgotten cellphone or wallet?

Those people are stealing. They're doing something with their lives. Don't insult them by elevating copyright infringers.


Not as convoluted as my "raging heterosexuality" idea:

There is a woman who feels that she is a man. Not just any kind of man, but a gay man. Therefore he goes out to pick up guys. Since he is biologically a she this isn't a homosexual relationship. But, because he thinks she is a he in his mind that makes it a homosexual relationship.
 
2013-04-29 03:20:49 PM  

Egoy3k: Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].

The problem with your rant is that car theft and video game piracy are not ever remotely similar.


Well, if a car exists, and I had the ability to make an exact duplicate of the car without costs incurred to any manufacturers or car lots, even though I didn't need a car and probably wouldn't have bought a car if I couldn't replicate the car for free. And then I drove it around for as long as I liked, and told other people how awesome my car was, and then those people went and bought an actual car from the dealership (or maybe they make their own copies, what do I care), then its a little closer to video game piracy.
 
2013-04-29 03:22:33 PM  
I will confess to pirating Arx Fatalis, recently.

/I then purchased the game a day later.
 
2013-04-29 03:25:37 PM  

Celerian: Well, if a car exists, and I had the ability to make an exact duplicate of the car without costs incurred to any manufacturers or car lots, even though I didn't need a car and probably wouldn't have bought a car if I couldn't replicate the car for free. And then I drove it around for as long as I liked, and told other people how awesome my car was, and then those people went and bought an actual car from the dealership (or maybe they make their own copies, what do I care), then its a little closer to video game piracy.


If its so awesome, why are you unwilling to pay for it?
 
2013-04-29 03:28:20 PM  

Celerian: Egoy3k: Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].

The problem with your rant is that car theft and video game piracy are not ever remotely similar.

Well, if a car exists, and I had the ability to make an exact duplicate of the car without costs incurred to any manufacturers or car lots, even though I didn't need a car and probably wouldn't have bought a car if I couldn't replicate the car for free. And then I drove it around for as long as I liked, and told other people how awesome my car was, and then those people went and bought an actual car from the dealership (or maybe they make their own copies, what do I care), then its a little closer to video game piracy.


You need to add in that this mythical car cannot take you anywhere that you need to be. The car is for enjoyment only. No going to work, no getting groceries, no appointments nothing. Also you should mention that you own multiple cars that you have paid for but they also can't do anything of importance they are simply intended for leisure as well.
 
2013-04-29 03:32:21 PM  

Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].


What's wrong with hemp?
 
2013-04-29 03:33:04 PM  

Egoy3k: The problem with your rant is that car theft and video game piracy are not ever remotely similar.


si0.twimg.com
 
2013-04-29 03:33:22 PM  

Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].


If you a steal a physical object, that physical object is no longer able to be sold and it is removed from circulation. If you pirate software, you are not removing that software from circulation, nor are you preventing it from being sold.

/Not the same thing, even remotely.
 
2013-04-29 03:39:48 PM  

Girion47: Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].

What's wrong with hemp?


Nothing. Just don't use it as a blatantly obvious back-door to getting pot legalized. Make pot legal on it's own merits and stop pretending you give a shiat about rope. (Not *you*, but the Woody Harrelson crowd.)
 
2013-04-29 03:41:33 PM  

LesserEvil: Madonna released one of her albums on the torrents with some sort of annoying recurring noise in every song.


Common mistake: that was Madonna.
 
2013-04-29 03:45:08 PM  

YodaBlues: Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].

If you a steal a physical object, that physical object is no longer able to be sold and it is removed from circulation. If you pirate software, you are not removing that software from circulation, nor are you preventing it from being sold.

/Not the same thing, even remotely.


Okay.

So your argument is either : By stealing a car, you're depriving the world of some ridiculously infinitesimal percentage of natural resource : Which is a stupid argument,

OR

You're saying by stealing a car, you're depriving the value of the workers mining the ore, the value of the workers putting together motherboards, the workers creating metals and plastics, the workers assembling the car, etc. etc. etc.

In other words, you're taking away the value of labor and service when you steal a car, but when you take away the value of labor and service by stealing a video game, it's different because... you're retarded?
 
2013-04-29 03:47:48 PM  

Quigs: Girion47: Quigs: I hate these dumbfarks who cry "A pirated piece of software isn't a lost sale." They're like the hemp morons.

IF YOU'RE DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE AND IT CAN'T BE PROVEN THAT YOU OWN A  STOLEN VEHICLE  YOU'RE A LOT LESS LIKELY TO SAVE UP AND BUY A VEHICLE YOU MORONIC PIECE OF shiat

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375].

What's wrong with hemp?

Nothing. Just don't use it as a blatantly obvious back-door to getting pot legalized. Make pot legal on it's own merits and stop pretending you give a shiat about rope. (Not *you*, but the Woody Harrelson crowd.)


A) It's one of the possible avenues to getting pot legalized. Deal with it.

B) You didn't respond to any of the other farkers who showed you it's nothing like stealing a car. You instead focused on the one point that actually had nothing to do with the thread at hand. Moron.

www.project-disco.org
 
2013-04-29 03:49:30 PM  

BumpInTheNight: If its so awesome, why are you unwilling to pay for it?


Because I didn't NEED it, stupid. Follow along.

Egoy3k: You need to add in that this mythical car cannot take you anywhere that you need to be. The car is for enjoyment only. No going to work, no getting groceries, no appointments nothing. Also you should mention that you own multiple cars that you have paid for but they also can't do anything of importance they are simply intended for leisure as well.


Yeah that. Sometimes I can even make replicas of company cars, that only do work related things, but I can't take them to the beach. Also, people will give me free cars to do the exact same work, but the car that I replicate has a better dash and satellite radio. And heated seats.
 
2013-04-29 03:52:02 PM  
scottydoesntknow:

B) You didn't respond to any of the other farkers who showed you it's nothing like stealing a car.

Except when I did, directly above your post, dummy.
 
2013-04-29 03:52:12 PM  

Quigs: In other words, you're taking away the value of labor and service when you steal a car, but when you take away the value of labor and service by stealing a video game, it's different because... you're retarded?


You wouldn't get it, man.  It's a Jersey thing.
 
2013-04-29 03:53:13 PM  

Celerian: BumpInTheNight: If its so awesome, why are you unwilling to pay for it?

Because I didn't NEED it, stupid. Follow along.


hahahahahahahahahaha.

You sir, win one interents. Great troll.

9/10.
 
2013-04-29 03:53:54 PM  

Celerian: Because I didn't NEED it, stupid. Follow along


I sincerely hope that people appreciate but never NEED your work, as well.
 
2013-04-29 04:00:56 PM  
Quigs:

You're too dumb to understand the difference between a physical commodity and an intangible commodity.  

Meh, I've seen better trolls.
 
2013-04-29 04:02:45 PM  

Celerian: Egoy3k: You need to add in that this mythical car cannot take you anywhere that you need to be. The car is for enjoyment only. No going to work, no getting groceries, no appointments nothing. Also you should mention that you own multiple cars that you have paid for but they also can't do anything of importance they are simply intended for leisure as well.

Yeah that. Sometimes I can even make replicas of company cars, that only do work related things, but I can't take them to the beach. Also, people will give me free cars to do the exact same work, but the car that I replicate has a better dash and satellite radio. And heated seats.



Oh yeah and when you went to the dealership and tried to buy the car they wouldn't let you test drive it. They wanted to impose strange restrictions on the use of the car like you can't drive it on the second Thursday of any month with 30 days in it. The final insult was they wanted to sell you the car without trim or mirrors, it still worked fine but wasn't really finished. Don't worry though they'll sell you the trim and mirrors individually for a modest fee (note that taken in total you can almost double the price of the car).  Oh yeah and if you spend your money now and increase the sales figures of the car they'll reward everyone who HASN'T bought the car by releasing a finished car at a reduced price and call it the special edition.
 
2013-04-29 04:04:03 PM  
Quigs: scottydoesntknow:

B) You didn't respond to any of the other farkers who showed you it's nothing like stealing a car.

Except when I did, directly above your post, dummy.


I apologize, the only response I saw was to the pot post, when there was about 8 others relating to the actual thread before you posted.

BUT again your whole argument is based off the idea that it's stealing. It's not stealing. You have no way of proving that a sale would have happened if it weren't freely available and it does NOT deprive another person of owning it.

And it's not a theft of services, as no theft occurred. It's why they have different laws regarding it.
 
2013-04-29 04:06:03 PM  

YodaBlues: You're too dumb to understand the difference between a physical commodity and an intangible commodity.

Meh, I've seen better trolls.


To be fair, he could just be retarded.

scottydoesntknow: Quigs: scottydoesntknow:

B) You didn't respond to any of the other farkers who showed you it's nothing like stealing a car.

Except when I did, directly above your post, dummy.

I apologize, the only response I saw was to the pot post, when there was about 8 others relating to the actual thread before you posted.

BUT again your whole argument is based off the idea that it's stealing. It's not stealing. You have no way of proving that a sale would have happened if it weren't freely available and it does NOT deprive another person of owning it.

And it's not a theft of services, as no theft occurred. It's why they have different laws regarding it.


It's no different then recording a song off the radio, which is also theft!  THEFT OF THE AIRWAVES
 
2013-04-29 04:08:55 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Celerian: Because I didn't NEED it, stupid. Follow along

I sincerely hope that people appreciate but never NEED your work, as well.


If I worked in the entertainment industry, that's exactly how it would pan out. Unfortunately, in my line of work, I am necessary, to keep things running without issues. And when there ARE issues, I'm really important, until the issues are fixed. And then I'm not nearly as interesting.

The point I was making is that no matter what the game costs, I don't NEED it. Until I decide I WANT it, they haven't generated a sale.

I have $60 bucks in my hand.

With my $60 bucks, I could buy gas for my car for a month. I need the gas in order to get around, especially back and forth to work.

I could also buy Game X. Game X isn't something that I need, because I would only use it in my spare time. I have other things I can do in my spare time, but maybe Game X looks interesting. The $60 I spend on Game X wouldn't make me miss out on anything else, but I could always use that $60 on something that I need. And of course, the only thing I have to go on is a crappy trailer, some bullshiat reviews and a few pictures and descriptions of Game X. This is not like my ability to watch an entire season of a television show and go to the store and buy it on DVD because, hey, I'd really like to watch Ross and Rachael get together and break up anytime I want to. This is not like listening to an album online and thinking, "Damn, I'd love to listen to the collected works of John Prine while driving in my automobile!" No, this is the video game industry asking me to drop a substancial amount of money on something that I might not be able to try out.

I would like you to spend $60 bucks on my television series, BLORT!. BLORT! is a scifi drama with breathtaking visuals, exciting space battles, and deep storylines. All of the critics are saying BLORT! is a must-watch, edge-of-your-seat, wild ride. Here are some still images and a 30 second promo spot for BLORT!. The only way you can see BLORT! is if you buy it, but I assure you that you will love it.

Want to buy BLORT!?


Just kidding, I just sold you Star Trek Voyager.
 
2013-04-29 04:10:11 PM  

Egoy3k: Celerian: Egoy3k: You need to add in that this mythical car cannot take you anywhere that you need to be. The car is for enjoyment only. No going to work, no getting groceries, no appointments nothing. Also you should mention that you own multiple cars that you have paid for but they also can't do anything of importance they are simply intended for leisure as well.

Yeah that. Sometimes I can even make replicas of company cars, that only do work related things, but I can't take them to the beach. Also, people will give me free cars to do the exact same work, but the car that I replicate has a better dash and satellite radio. And heated seats.


Oh yeah and when you went to the dealership and tried to buy the car they wouldn't let you test drive it. They wanted to impose strange restrictions on the use of the car like you can't drive it on the second Thursday of any month with 30 days in it. The final insult was they wanted to sell you the car without trim or mirrors, it still worked fine but wasn't really finished. Don't worry though they'll sell you the trim and mirrors individually for a modest fee (note that taken in total you can almost double the price of the car).  Oh yeah and if you spend your money now and increase the sales figures of the car they'll reward everyone who HASN'T bought the car by releasing a finished car at a reduced price and call it the special edition.


Jesus if a car company tried that bullshiat with me I'd...not buy a car from them.  Shocking, I know.  Less shocking then sneaking into the factory and making yourself one though.
 
2013-04-29 04:10:19 PM  

Egoy3k: Celerian: Egoy3k: You need to add in that this mythical car cannot take you anywhere that you need to be. The car is for enjoyment only. No going to work, no getting groceries, no appointments nothing. Also you should mention that you own multiple cars that you have paid for but they also can't do anything of importance they are simply intended for leisure as well.

Yeah that. Sometimes I can even make replicas of company cars, that only do work related things, but I can't take them to the beach. Also, people will give me free cars to do the exact same work, but the car that I replicate has a better dash and satellite radio. And heated seats.


Oh yeah and when you went to the dealership and tried to buy the car they wouldn't let you test drive it. They wanted to impose strange restrictions on the use of the car like you can't drive it on the second Thursday of any month with 30 days in it. The final insult was they wanted to sell you the car without trim or mirrors, it still worked fine but wasn't really finished. Don't worry though they'll sell you the trim and mirrors individually for a modest fee (note that taken in total you can almost double the price of the car).  Oh yeah and if you spend your money now and increase the sales figures of the car they'll reward everyone who HASN'T bought the car by releasing a finished car at a reduced price and call it the special edition.


Can I hire you as a writer the next time I want to make a snarky "piracy isn't all bad" post?
 
2013-04-29 04:10:32 PM  
Pirating a song is one thing, because you know the musicians don't make any money from record sales and you go see them live anyway. Pirating an $8 indie game? How low can you get? Maybe the reason you're too impoverished to spend $8 is because you sit around playing stolen games all day!
 
2013-04-29 04:19:03 PM  

Celerian: If I worked in the entertainment industry, that's exactly how it would pan out. Unfortunately, in my line of work, I am necessary, to keep things running without issues. And when there ARE issues, I'm really important, until the issues are fixed. And then I'm not nearly as interesting.

The point I was making is that no matter what the game costs, I don't NEED it. Until I decide I WANT it, they haven't generated a sale.

I have $60 bucks in my hand.

With my $60 bucks, I could buy gas for my car for a month. I need the gas in order to get around, especially back and forth to work.

I could also buy Game X. Game X isn't something that I need, because I would only use it in my spare time. I have other things I can do in my spare time, but maybe Game X looks interesting. The $60 I spend on Game X wouldn't make me miss out on anything else, but I could always use that $60 on something that I need. And of course, the only thing I have to go on is a crappy trailer, some bullshiat reviews and a few pictures and descriptions of Game X. This is not like my ability to watch an entire season of a television show and go to the store and buy it on DVD because, hey, I'd really like to watch Ross and Rachael get together and break up anytime I want to. This is not like listening to an album online and thinking, "Damn, I'd love to listen to the collected works of John Prine while driving in my automobile!" No, this is the video game industry asking me to drop a substancial amount of money on something that I might not be able to try out.

I would like you to spend $60 bucks on my television series, BLORT!. BLORT! is a scifi drama with breathtaking visuals, exciting space battles, and deep storylines. All of the critics are saying BLORT! is a must-watch, edge-of-your-seat, wild ride. Here are some still images and a 30 second promo spot for BLORT!. The only way you can see BLORT! is if you buy it, but I assure you that you will love it.

Want to buy BLORT!?


Just kid ...


I suppose we have the same values then, I just appreciate the people who make what entertains me a whole lot more then you do that's all, and I'm not in a position where I'm worrying about how I spend my last $60 ;)  My answer to BLORT has been to not pre-order from those shiatheels anymore, I haven't for a pretty long time now and it seems to work.  But yes, back when I was blindly pre-ordering and getting burned I had no qwalms with turning around and pirating the next game from company X that interested me, fair's fair.  I still owe Activision-Blizzard for Diablo 3 though, I'm not sure what I expected at this point, but it wasn't what I got that's for sure.
 
2013-04-29 04:22:10 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Egoy3k: Celerian: Egoy3k: You need to add in that this mythical car cannot take you anywhere that you need to be. The car is for enjoyment only. No going to work, no getting groceries, no appointments nothing. Also you should mention that you own multiple cars that you have paid for but they also can't do anything of importance they are simply intended for leisure as well.

Yeah that. Sometimes I can even make replicas of company cars, that only do work related things, but I can't take them to the beach. Also, people will give me free cars to do the exact same work, but the car that I replicate has a better dash and satellite radio. And heated seats.


Oh yeah and when you went to the dealership and tried to buy the car they wouldn't let you test drive it. They wanted to impose strange restrictions on the use of the car like you can't drive it on the second Thursday of any month with 30 days in it. The final insult was they wanted to sell you the car without trim or mirrors, it still worked fine but wasn't really finished. Don't worry though they'll sell you the trim and mirrors individually for a modest fee (note that taken in total you can almost double the price of the car).  Oh yeah and if you spend your money now and increase the sales figures of the car they'll reward everyone who HASN'T bought the car by releasing a finished car at a reduced price and call it the special edition.

Jesus if a car company tried that bullshiat with me I'd...not buy a car from them.  Shocking, I know.  Less shocking then sneaking into the factory and making yourself one though.


That's what we're getting at. MOST video game companies are doing this exact same thing. And gamers don't have a lot of choice but to buy our trim and mirrors separate. Or to buy something without having a fair taste of what it is. I almost feel the same way about movies in the theater, but most of the time they TRY to make those enjoyable, so rarely do I find something I wish I hadn't spent my money on.

On the other hand, I'm pretty loyal to game companies that have provided me with a lot of enjoyment. Blizzard being the big one, I've enjoyed ALMOST everything they've made. I was excited for Diablo 3, and I jumped on the opportunity to sign up for their year-long WoW pass (something I'd be playing anyway) because it gave me beta access to the new WoW expansion and a free copy of Diablo 3. Now, chances are if I hadn't been offered that deal, I would have bought the game anyway on launch day, because I've been pretty happy with the game. I even had beta for Diablo 3, and it was pretty good. I was excited for the game.

And the game came out and I played through it. What's this? The game has rehashed bosses from the first two games? The game is pretty, but a much simpler system than Diablo 1 or Diablo 2, which allowed you quite a bit of customization? The entire storyline is bland and feels like a huge cop out? The difficulty goes from boring to insane without any warning, making it impossible to play without a bunch of people? Oh, this is disappointing  I'm glad I didn't really spend any money on that turd. Going to be more careful with future Blizzard titles. Should have saw it coming since Activision has been forcing Blizzard to focus on their cash crop and Diablo 3 was a.... oh fark me, it was a cash grab and a good opportunity to see how the community would react to a micro-transaction auction house! DUH!

See, but it took Blizzard nearly 20 years to burn me so badly with a game that I would have been upset at the purchase. A brand new company wants me to try their game or give them my money, and I don't know what BLORT! is or why I'd want to play it, so if I pirate it, I can make a decision on if I want to give them my money.
 
2013-04-29 04:27:15 PM  
BumpInTheNight


>>>> DemonEater: You guys remember DOOM?
....
Back then it was a little harder to mass-distribute the ill-gotten warez. For every dorm floor that had one legit copy spread around to a dozen friend there were significant amount of homes that bought it because that's what you do to get games when you aren't a BBSing/newsgroup surfin' cyber-nerd. These days it just takes one ass with a net connection to upload one copy and it spreads like wildfire. Also back then there wasn't such an culture where every app/song/game/site is free (in either as beer or as it sells you as its product) and the idea of paying for anything is just straight up alien.
Other than your slightly easier to distribute point, you are either misinformed or deluded. 4 floppies became 16, became 32, became 64 in a few hours across schools. BBS' were common not the rare places you claim, and everybody was copying stuff. . . yet the game was so great a lot of us then went out and paid for a copy anyway.
 
2013-04-29 04:28:26 PM  

BumpInTheNight: I suppose we have the same values then, I just appreciate the people who make what entertains me a whole lot more then you do that's all, and I'm not in a position where I'm worrying about how I spend my last $60 ;)  My answer to BLORT has been to not pre-order from those shiatheels anymore, I haven't for a pretty long time now and it seems to work.  But yes, back when I was blindly pre-ordering and getting burned I had no qwalms with turning around and pirating the next game from company X that interested me, fair's fair.  I still owe Activision-Blizzard for Diablo 3 though, I'm not sure what I expected at this point, but it wasn't what I got that's for sure.


Considering I got into programming at an early age because I wanted to work for Blizzard, I think I appreciate the people who make my entertainment a whole lot. So much that, as I said upthread, I would much rather meet an artist at a merch table and shove a crumpled ten into his sweaty, tired hands then spend $20 at Best Buy or through a mail-order music club where they won't see $2.00 of it. I've been burned in the past, and seeing that a good majority of the video game industry has gone this way, I am distrustful of new stuff. A company wants a surefire line to my pocket, sell me on one or two products through my distrusting nature, and then keep pumping out quality stuff. Yeah, Blizzard burned me with D3, but I've also been having a lot of fun with MoP, and I look forward to seeing what they do in the future. But now I'm going to be weary of what I jump on, just in case...
 
2013-04-29 04:43:30 PM  

DemonEater: You guys remember DOOM?

Most popular game in the universe for most of the 90s.  EVERYBODY had the shareware version.  The full version and DOOM2 were probably the most pirated software in the world from '93 to '96.  No copy protection at ALL - got four or five floppy discs?  ARJ that sucker up and have fun!

Yet id still made an unholy assload of money off it.

Piracy hurts, sure, but it doesn't kill.



This and only this.
 
2013-04-29 04:53:23 PM  

Celerian: Considering I got into programming at an early age because I wanted to work for Blizzard, I think I appreciate the people who make my entertainment a whole lot. So much that, as I said upthread, I would much rather meet an artist at a merch table and shove a crumpled ten into his sweaty, tired hands then spend $20 at Best Buy or through a mail-order music club where they won't see $2.00 of it. I've been burned in the past, and seeing that a good majority of the video game industry has gone this way, I am distrustful of new stuff. A company wants a surefire line to my pocket, sell me on one or two products through my distrusting nature, and then keep pumping out quality stuff. Yeah, Blizzard burned me with D3, but I've also been having a lot of fun with MoP, and I look forward to seeing what they do in the future. But now I'm going to be weary of what I jump on, just in case...


Yah I'd uh, well I'd steer clear of Blizzard, they are so deeply infected with Activision at this point the average manager could probably tell you what temperature Booby Kotick's fingers are at any given moment.  I don't even really buy many AAA titles or from AAA publishers anymore(Bethesda is a solid exception, they have so far rocked), the money I tend to throw around more loosely goes to the indies or the quasi-indies like Paradox's stable of developers and such.  I'm prone to throwing $20 at games like Impire or Legend of Grimlock that're close to what I like but ultimately don't play more then an evening or two, I've still bought a few that I truly did not like (Of Orcs and Men comes to mind) but meh that's $20 and considering all the sales where I've picked up a lot of great titles on the super cheap I'm still ahead.  But, I *always* pay for my video gaming now, always.  I pick and choose whom I pay and how and prefer to pay the little guys then the big ones, but I always pay because that's fair and I want to support the industry that is my primary source of entertainment, and I tend to do it through their rules because its not just about getting the dollars into the developer house's hands but also to show the publishers that there is demand for their product, otherwise we get into the vicious loop of sci-fi fans who'll download the shows right up until they get cancelled because it makes no money despite having a 'huge fan base'.

The main thing is no more blindly pre-ordering except for exceptional 'known goods' like for instance Skyrim.  Previews, demos, word of mouth, whatever gives me info about a game is all good.  But no, I'm not pouty enough anymore to freeload a game and play it through and only then decide if the developers deserved my financial thanks.
 
2013-04-29 05:00:24 PM  
I mean, yeah, you can host your own torrent on release day and use that as evidence that piracy is killing the games industry.

You can also jump off a tall building to prove that gravity is out to get us. It's okay to second guess yourself sometimes.

That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work.
 
2013-04-29 05:03:09 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Yah I'd uh, well I'd steer clear of Blizzard, they are so deeply infected with Activision at this point the average manager could probably tell you what temperature Booby Kotick's fingers are at any given moment.  I don't even really buy many AAA titles or from AAA publishers anymore(Bethesda is a solid exception, they have so far rocked), the money I tend to throw around more loosely goes to the indies or the quasi-indies like Paradox's stable of developers and such.  I'm prone to throwing $20 at games like Impire or Legend of Grimlock that're close to what I like but ultimately don't play more then an evening or two, I've still bought a few that I truly did not like (Of Orcs and Men comes to mind) but meh that's $20 and considering all the sales where I've picked up a lot of great titles on the super cheap I'm still ahead.  But, I *always* pay for my video gaming now, always.  I pick and choose whom I pay and how and prefer to pay the little guys then the big ones, but I always pay because that's fair and I want to support the industry that is my primary source of entertainment, and I tend to do it through their rules because its not just about getting the dollars into the developer house's hands but also to show the publishers that there is demand for their product, otherwise we get into the vicious loop of sci-fi fans who'll download the shows right up until they get cancelled because it makes no money despite having a 'huge fan base'.

The main thing is no more blindly pre-ordering except for exceptional 'known goods' like for instance Skyrim.  Previews, demos, word of mouth, whatever gives me info about a game is all good.  But no, I'm not pouty enough anymore to freeload a game and play it through and only then decide if the developers deserved my financial thanks.


I respect that position. I don't pirate nearly as much as I used to because I am now 27, I have two kids, and a full time job. Along with that, I am still very much a "wow addict" which means I don't have a whole lot of time for other games. Despite the fallout from Diablo 3, I am still a fan of the stuff Blizzard does, I just wish they'd break from Activision, but I know it will never happen. I think the last indie game I bought just for the fark of it was on a Steam sale, and it was a tower defense game that I thought might be cool. It turns out that it wasn't great, as I've had more fun with flash based Tower Defence games. Usually if the game is $5 or less and I want to try it out, I'll go for it, because its not even worth the time to pirate and try. Most of them are quick time wasters that I play for a few hours and then forget I even bought. Once we start getting above $10, I feel like I should spend more time with my investment, or get to try it out. If I'm not going to do either, then I convince myself (correctly) that the game wasn't that important and I don't need it.
 
2013-04-29 05:06:30 PM  

Celerian: BumpInTheNight: Celerian: Because I didn't NEED it, stupid. Follow along

I sincerely hope that people appreciate but never NEED your work, as well.

If I worked in the entertainment industry, that's exactly how it would pan out. Unfortunately, in my line of work, I am necessary, to keep things running without issues. And when there ARE issues, I'm really important, until the issues are fixed. And then I'm not nearly as interesting.

The point I was making is that no matter what the game costs, I don't NEED it. Until I decide I WANT it, they haven't generated a sale.

I have $60 bucks in my hand.

With my $60 bucks, I could buy gas for my car for a month. I need the gas in order to get around, especially back and forth to work.

I could also buy Game X. Game X isn't something that I need, because I would only use it in my spare time. I have other things I can do in my spare time, but maybe Game X looks interesting. The $60 I spend on Game X wouldn't make me miss out on anything else, but I could always use that $60 on something that I need. And of course, the only thing I have to go on is a crappy trailer, some bullshiat reviews and a few pictures and descriptions of Game X. This is not like my ability to watch an entire season of a television show and go to the store and buy it on DVD because, hey, I'd really like to watch Ross and Rachael get together and break up anytime I want to. This is not like listening to an album online and thinking, "Damn, I'd love to listen to the collected works of John Prine while driving in my automobile!" No, this is the video game industry asking me to drop a substancial amount of money on something that I might not be able to try out.

I would like you to spend $60 bucks on my television series, BLORT!. BLORT! is a scifi drama with breathtaking visuals, exciting space battles, and deep storylines. All of the critics are saying BLORT! is a must-watch, edge-of-your-seat, wild ride. Here are some still images and a 30 second promo spo ...


shut up and take my money
 
2013-04-29 05:21:51 PM  

BumpInTheNight: The main thing is no more blindly pre-ordering except for exceptional 'known goods' like for instance Skyrim.  Previews, demos, word of mouth, whatever gives me info about a game is all good.  But no, I'm not pouty enough anymore to freeload a game and play it through and only then decide if the developers deserved my financial thanks.


I've done the same.  I rarely preorder now and tend towards a wait and see approach for most games.  Plus steam sales have given me a health backlog of things to try, so I can afford the wait as well.  Some of that money has gone toward little indie kickstarters for things that look curious.  I don't expect them to be good, but i'm willing to pitch $15 for a copy and something potentially different.
 
2013-04-29 05:24:19 PM  

cman: FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games


Doesn't seem to bother CD Projekt RED (The Witcher series).
 
2013-04-29 05:31:48 PM  

Celerian: I respect that position. I don't pirate nearly as much as I used to because I am now 27, I have two kids, and a full time job. Along with that, I am still very much a "wow addict" which means I don't have a whole lot of time for other games. Despite the fallout from Diablo 3, I am still a fan of the stuff Blizzard does, I just wish they'd break from Activision, but I know it will never happen. I think the last indie game I bought just for the fark of it was on a Steam sale, and it was a tower defense game that I thought might be cool. It turns out that it wasn't great, as I've had more fun with flash based Tower Defence games. Usually if the game is $5 or less and I want to try it out, I'll go for it, because its not even worth the time to pirate and try. Most of them are quick time wasters that I play for a few hours and then forget I even bought. Once we start getting above $10, I feel like I should spend more time with my investment, or get to try it out. If I'm not going to do either, then I convince myself (correctly) that the game wasn't that important and I don't need it.


Aye, the cost/hours entertained ratio for me is about a dollar an hour to be considered a good purchase and yah when it came to subscription games like WoW the ratio is exceptionally high for sure, and I totally remember how dismissive I could be about other games when I was playing it too.  I think its the steam sales that have netted the highest bang/buck, bought the complete Sword of the Stars a few years ago for $20 and man looking at my steam profile I've logged 348 hours on that sucker.  That game alone balanced out many a stinker.  I'm also a little older then yourself (34), also a software guy but no kids yet so I guess my threshold for disposable spending is a wee bit higher that's all :)
 
2013-04-29 05:36:43 PM  
The sad thing is I probably spend way too much money on games and yet I get accused of not supporting the industry.
 
2013-04-29 05:47:41 PM  

Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work


Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.
 
2013-04-29 05:54:13 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.


Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.
 
2013-04-29 06:24:20 PM  

StopLurkListen: Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.

Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.


Yeah, looks like it's specifically a Windows 8 "app". Guess I'll pass, then.
 
2013-04-29 06:29:15 PM  
So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."
 
2013-04-29 06:33:46 PM  

Obbi: StopLurkListen: Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.

Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.

Yeah, looks like it's specifically a Windows 8 "app". Guess I'll pass, then.


Erk, my bad, looks like the fastspring site lists it for XP, Vista, and 7. Maybe when I get home the demo page will be back up.
 
2013-04-29 06:38:24 PM  

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.


Followed by more misdirected rage. I like you!
 
2013-04-29 06:41:21 PM  

Obbi: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Followed by more misdirected rage. I like you!


Was there something you disagreed with? I stand by the source of my rage.
 
2013-04-29 06:52:20 PM  

I Like Bread: Obbi: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Followed by more misdirected rage. I like you!

Was there something you disagreed with? I stand by the source of my rage.


I do have one general thought that disagrees with yours. I'm having to head home pretty soon so I can't immediately jump into a good solid debate on it though.

I'm of the "piracy hurts, but definitely hasn't killed" thought. Creative forces were driven out by piracy, I believe they were driven out by the business folk that had more of a sense for profit than product, and essentially all the "creative talent" these days either have to figure out a way to fund their own projects with a small team, or doom themselves to sweatshop-style work at the hands of the large publishers.

In that sense, pirating probably hurts the small team there, but the Marketing Major has done far more damage. Also, I don't think you'd respect somebody if they blatantly asked you to punch them in the mouth, but that's just my opinion.
 
2013-04-29 06:56:53 PM  

Obbi: Creative forces weren't driven out by piracy


Helps to proofread.
 
2013-04-29 06:58:14 PM  
Bullshiat. The used game industry is what spawned this crap, because companies like EA couldn't get an extra cut of the pie that they already bit from. That's why intrusive DRM was created and why always-online is being pushed. You don't own the game anymore. Piracy didn't spawn this crap, greed did. They want to destroy the second-hand market without actually saying they're trying to destroy the second-hand market.

Why is it that Indie devs are actually ok with piracy, while big publicly-traded companies keep screaming about the piracy boogeyman that's gonna doom them?

/And one more time just for measure: Piracy ≠ theft
 
2013-04-29 06:59:10 PM  

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.


Oops, meant to quote you above.
 
2013-04-29 07:00:18 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Oops, meant to quote you above.


I pirated Eurotrip
 
2013-04-29 07:05:37 PM  

Girion47: scottydoesntknow: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Oops, meant to quote you above.

I pirated Eurotrip


It's entirely your fault that there is not a Eurotrip 2. I hope you feel bad about that.

/Not really
 
2013-04-29 07:42:23 PM  

Obbi: Obbi: StopLurkListen: Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.

Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.

Yeah, looks like it's specifically a Windows 8 "app". Guess I'll pass, then.

Erk, my bad, looks like the fastspring site lists it for XP, Vista, and 7. Maybe when I get home the demo page will be back up.


Oh, nice. Their own shopping page was down earlier today, so I followed the Microsoft Store link, which said Win8/RT only.

I'm getting out my wallet. I love to support indie devs. (I was one until recently)
 
2013-04-29 08:33:14 PM  
Side note for developer:
I've bought copies of Railworks for friends as a joke.  farking RAILWORKS.

And I can't even imagine buying this lame assed game for anyone, even as a damn joke.  That's how lame this game seems.  And you're surprised that people are pirating it (assuming you're not lying about it)?
 
2013-04-29 08:47:12 PM  

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."


You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.
 
2013-04-29 08:49:16 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Side note for developer:
I've bought copies of Railworks for friends as a joke.  farking RAILWORKS.

And I can't even imagine buying this lame assed game for anyone, even as a damn joke.  That's how lame this game seems.  And you're surprised that people are pirating it (assuming you're not lying about it)?


Green Heart Games makes RailWorks?
 
2013-04-29 09:00:59 PM  

LesserEvil: Satanic_Hamster: Side note for developer:
I've bought copies of Railworks for friends as a joke.  farking RAILWORKS.

And I can't even imagine buying this lame assed game for anyone, even as a damn joke.  That's how lame this game seems.  And you're surprised that people are pirating it (assuming you're not lying about it)?

Green Heart Games makes RailWorks?


Who the hell cares who makes RailWorks?  It's a boring assed railroad simulator.  You can't even derail the trains!
 
2013-04-29 09:01:53 PM  
How quickly do you lose the game when you introduce day one DLC, always online, and push franchises that were once stand-alone toward a subscription model?
 
2013-04-29 09:02:02 PM  
This was an amazing publicity stunt by a developer that ripped off another developer.
 
2013-04-29 09:08:23 PM  

YodaBlues: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."

You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.


Correct, it's not about piracy. It's about control.

In two years, when Maxis/EA release SimCity 2015 or 2016, they will shut down the servers that allow the 2013 version to run within 3 months of launching the new version, cause fark you, customers. If you want to play the shiny version of SimCity, you will have to spend another $60 every 2 years, as well as stock up on DLC, and you'll like it.

Piracy is a convenient scapegoat for executives trying to justify a bottom line. Forget that they ran $10 million over budget because they transitioned the game between 3 different studios, or that their latest attempt to create a money tree like WoW failed miserably.... it's all piracy's fault. If the board doesn't believe the exec, he can point to numerous studies from the BSA, MPAA and RIAA about the subject, then flip a report that shows how many thousands of copies of the game were downloaded by those fiendish pirates (a large portion of whom couldn't buy the game in their country if they wanted to).

Of course, pirates often download games, install then play them for a couple of days, then uninstall them and never revisit them. Some pirates never actually play the game.... and yes, some pirates play the game all the way through. Of those portion that do play the game like a customer.... most of those either 1) can't afford the game at the launch price or 2) can't buy the game because of region issues, or 3) can't process payment to get a physical, legit  copy of the game.

There is also the case of the unintentional pirate... people who by bootlegs, unaware it isn't a legit copy.

All told, a certain percentage of those pirates could afford to buy the game, and have it available for them to purchase, and certainly play the game fully. The thing is, these people will NEVER buy a game unless you find a way to engage them. They don't pirate games loaded with crazy DRM, true, but they also will NEVER BUY THOSE GAMES, either. There are far too many FREE, PIRATED games they can download to occupy their time.

Engaging pirates in a way that encourages them to buy games isn't easy... but DRM is about the most opposite way I can imagine to do it. So DRM does nothing to generate sales, and the publishing execs KNOW THIS.

What is more significant to them is generating cash flow, and they do that with DLC, advertising/sponsorship, and a product lifecycle that encourages loyal customers to continue spending money every year on new versions, regardless of how little work has actually been done to update the franchise. The latest trend in DRM is intended to shorten the life of a product with a swift ax chop - shutting it down so thoroughly that it cannot be revived by GOG or Abandonware sites... so effectively that used games are no longer an issue, and killing it before the price drops on a game that is a potential rival for sales of your LATEST games (to people who do not pirate).
 
2013-04-29 09:12:01 PM  

LesserEvil: There is also the case of the unintentional pirate... people who b

uy bootlegs, unaware it isn't a legit copy.

FTFM, also to expand what I meant, in many countries, people buy games at small markets or even out of storefronts, unaware they are bootlegs. Very typical in Asia, and while I knew they were selling copies, many people who bought from these places didn't know.
 
2013-04-29 09:21:35 PM  

LesserEvil: What is more significant to them is generating cash flow, and they do that with DLC, advertising/sponsorship, and a product lifecycle that encourages loyal customers to continue spending money every year on new versions, regardless of how little work has actually been done to update the franchise. The latest trend in DRM is intended to shorten the life of a product with a swift ax chop - shutting it down so thoroughly that it cannot be revived by GOG or Abandonware sites... so effectively that used games are no longer an issue, and killing it before the price drops on a game that is a potential rival for sales of your LATEST games (to people who do not pirate).


Nail on the head new friend. This is one of the reasons why dedicated servers are going the way of the dodo and matchmaking is the new trend. Publishers can control how long a game can be played online. They can kill the matching servers and cite 'cutting costs' and oh, by the way, 'Generic Brown-Gray Shooter 2014' was just released! Go check it out!
 
2013-04-29 10:19:12 PM  
I won't pay retail for any game.  I'll wait until it is on sale on steam for 50-75% off.

If they're trying to give you 90% of the game for retail and dribble the remaining 10% out as DLC then I'll wait until it's all a package for 50-75% off.

If you don't have it on sale or don't have it on steam (Mass Effect 3), then I simply won't play it.
 
2013-04-29 10:24:03 PM  

YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.


That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.
 
2013-04-29 10:30:50 PM  

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.


That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.
 
2013-04-29 10:43:37 PM  

ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.

That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.


Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter. Why do content providers now place a priority on locking down the usage of their content?  I'll give you a hint: it's to mitigate the built-in losses from _______.

Come on, I know you can do this.
 
2013-04-29 10:50:49 PM  
From the screenshot I'm really not surprised by the piracy rate.

It looks like one of the thousands of recent indie games using 'retro' as an excuse to put no effort into graphics.

I understand that as a solo dev you can't create Crysis however the price should reflect that. At the moment Section 8: Prejudice is on sale on steam (at least in Australia) for $3.75. Not sure if it's a great game (I did enjoy the first Section 8 but didn't for reasons I don't remember I didn't play for very long) but then I know even less about Game Developer Tycoon and I don't believe that it is worth twice as much as Section 8: Prejudice.

It looks like an iPhone game and should be priced as such: $1.99
 
2013-04-29 10:52:11 PM  

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.

That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.

Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter. Why do content providers now place a priority on locking down the usage of their content?  I'll give you a hint: it's to mitigate the built-in losses from _______.

Come on, I know you can do this.


That's their excuse to force it down the throats of paying customers, not the motivation.
 
2013-04-29 10:57:57 PM  

I Like Bread: Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter.


No, he's describing the reasoning. It's not piracy. Piracy's got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. People who pirate software were most likely never going to buy it anyway, so you don't get to count that as a lost sale. I'm sorry your too addle-minded to understand that, but please, continue to support always-on DRM, on-disc DLC, the death of used game sales and a product that only works when the publishers tell you it will work.

/You aren't buying games/software anymore, you buy a 'license' that can be revoked whenever the content provider wants to.
 
2013-04-29 11:05:37 PM  

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.

That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.

Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter. Why do content providers now place a priority on locking down the usage of their content?  I'll give you a hint: it's to mitigate the built-in losses from _______.

Come on, I know you can do this.


...Also. The biggest pirates I know are also the ones who have spent the most buying games, even paying hundreds of dollars to support games in development like MechWarrior Online and StarCitizen. They pirate games for the same reason that they buy games. The love games. They pirate  for various reasons, they aren't sure of the quality, it isn't available in our region, they just want to play it with friends at a LAN or they already spent too much on games this month and their significant others would murder them if they buy another one. Hell, I've got 2 DVDs full of old DOS games that I downloaded just to keep a copy of them, they are a part of history. The ones I actually play I've bought on GOG.com.

The pirates are in many cases their best customers. They are the collectors and obsessive fans.
 
2013-04-29 11:08:45 PM  

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.


Nice of you to ignore my post.

It isn't about piracy.

Want some truth? Microsoft studied the situation with pirates on the original Xbox, they found that, on average, people who owned modded Xboxes (custom firmware) typically **owned** (as in purchased) +5 more games than those who did not mod their consoles. They also pirated many games, but they tended to buy the games they played through, and in effect, were better customers. What set them apart was their desire to have full control over their own machines... being able to launch games from the hard drive, access to homebrew apps like XBMC.

It hurt Microsoft's bottom line to ban customers from Xbox Live, but they did it to control the ecosystem.

The PS4 won't be backwards compatible. The PS3 removed backwards compatibility... even though newer versions of the console could play PS2 and PSX games just fine (hacked consoles, that is). Sony removed this because selling the same game twice (through PSN) is just easy money. The same pattern will now continue with the PS4.

Piracy on the PC is different in many ways, mainly because of the platform, but the chief concern is old games and used games. It's called market saturation. It would be nice to think consumer pressures would prevent this sort of thing, but companies like EA have tremendous momentum with franchises that have huge customer loyalty rates. Because of this, publishers like EA have figured out that by using "always-on DRM" they can essentially shut down a game. Want to play Madden 2010 with your buddies? Too bad... the servers are gone. Now, even better, we will do this to the single player games, and blame it on dirty pirates! SimCity's "social networking features" are tacked in, at best.... they were not critical to the single player game, as those parts of the game could have been easily simulated (and probably were, at one point); the servers were never there to add functionality to the user... they are simply there to act ass a giant ON/OFF switch EA can pull when they want to sell a new version of SimCity and get suckers, erm, loyal customers, to fork over another $60.

So... piracy is a red herring. It's been going on since the first personal computers were shipped out of garages in silicon valley... probably far worse in the 80s, but it hasn't stopped publishers like EA from growing into mega-corporations, and it hasn't stopped AAA titles from launches that gross BILLIONS in the first week. Developers who have been around know that PC game pirates are probably not lost sales, or if they are, it is such a small percentage, that their effect on sales is negligible (and sometimes offset by pirates who DO buy the game after playing it).

That's not to say piracy is right. Price and delivery of games through services like Steam make it unjustifiable for me, or even my 13 year old son, to pirate any games we really want. My whole immediate family have our own individual (and extensive) libraries. We won't be buying any games from EA.

If I thought Game Dev Tycoon was the sort of game I wanted to play, I'd get it. Their release of a "cracked version" to prod pirates wouldn't affect that, and this whole incident has only made me aware they were out there, so... publicity! Their retail game is DRM-free. It's a couple of indie developers, and kudos to them for thinking up a great way to generate publicity. The message might be a bit confusing, and lost in the over-analysis of their action, but at the end of the day, it will generate sales for them.

/Goes into deep thought on how to generate controversy on my own iOS/Android app, Virtual Cat Toys HD.
//Buy this app or I'll shoot this kitty?
 
2013-04-29 11:35:24 PM  
Alright, went ahead and bought this thing. Haven't played a "Tycoon" style game in a while and found myself playing the demo a couple times. I give less attention to the Indie bundles I spontaneously grab at times.

Hope the passive aggressive whiners that made this can sleep soundly knowing that people will buy their game.
 
2013-04-29 11:48:03 PM  

ParanoidAgnostic: That's their excuse to force it down the throats of paying customers, not the motivation.


You're confusing the companies at large (who are forced to grow in other areas or die from piracy) with the marketing departments being given the power to steer the company (who know how to exploit paying customers). For lack of a better analogy, think of the Joker's speech to Two-Face in TDK. The big studios unleashed a monster - but I know better than to blame the monster for doing what comes naturally.

YodaBlues: No, he's describing the reasoning. It's not piracy. Piracy's got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. People who pirate software were most likely never going to buy it anyway, so you don't get to count that as a lost sale. I'm sorry your too addle-minded to understand that, but please, continue to support always-on DRM, on-disc DLC, the death of used game sales and a product that only works when the publishers tell you it will work.


The person who thinks anyone who disagrees with him must be pro-DRM is calling me addle-minded. That is so precious. You've basically parroted every knee-jerk justification for piracy, and "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is not a rebuttal.

...
It's amazing how many people assume I'm against them, when in reality I'm just trying to help them not make the rest of us look stupid. I file them under "Not Helping".
 
2013-04-30 12:27:18 AM  
Pirate logic:

"It's not a physical good, and I wasn't going to pay for it anyway, so it's okay if I don't pay for it at all."

By this logic, pirates think it's totally okay to sneak into a movie theater/live theatre performance without paying (especially because they apparently can't trust reviews of word of mouth to judge the quality of what they're going to see).

Pirate logic:

"I need to know if something's good before I pay for it, so I'm entitled to a free trial run."

By this logic, pirates think they should get a free ride on a hooker to see if they would enjoy it or not... or a free meal at a restaurant before they decide whether or not to eat there.

Pirate logic:

"I wasn't going to buy it anyway, so there's no real lost sales."

I, too, would not buy a product if I ALREADY OBTAINED IT FOR FREE.

It's also noteworthy that they're very cool with the term "pirate."  You know why?  Because the more apt moniker would be "thief."  "Pirate" at least sounds cool and daring.
 
2013-04-30 12:31:36 AM  

lamecomedian: Pirate logic:

"I wasn't going to buy it anyway, so there's no real lost sales."

I, too, would not buy a product if I ALREADY OBTAINED IT FOR FREE.

It's also noteworthy that they're very cool with the term "pirate." You know why? Because the more apt moniker would be "thief." "Pirate" at least sounds cool and daring.


You really are a lame comedian.
 
2013-04-30 12:41:59 AM  
You know who play games and don't have a lot of money, and a poorly developed sense of morals?

children.

You know. like 12 year olds.

We've already had several high profile incidents where children have ended up being sued over mp3s.

I say we make piracy a capitol crime. Punishable by death.

It will be fun to watch them justify killing a 10 year old for figuring out how to work Utorrent.
 
2013-04-30 01:30:26 AM  

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: That's their excuse to force it down the throats of paying customers, not the motivation.

You're confusing the companies at large (who are forced to grow in other areas or die from piracy) with the marketing departments being given the power to steer the company (who know how to exploit paying customers). For lack of a better analogy, think of the Joker's speech to Two-Face in TDK. The big studios unleashed a monster - but I know better than to blame the monster for doing what comes naturally.


The marketing department is an unfortunate side effect of a company growing too large. It has nothing to do with piracy, except for the fact that the marketing department uses piracy as an excuse why their genius marketing strategies keep failing.

In the old days, before games were big business, there weren't enough profits to fund parasitic departments like marketing and HR. it was just the useful people like developers and designers. Gaming has since become a huge market and now support huge companies who keep these useless people employed.

The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.
 
2013-04-30 02:25:27 AM  
I completely disagree with almost all DRM schemes. At the same time, trying to push piracy like it's a good thing is completely retarded. If you don't know why, you are mentally askew in both intelligence and morals in so many ways that there's nothing I could say that would ever change your mind.
 
2013-04-30 04:01:48 AM  

ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.


Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.
 
2013-04-30 04:21:45 AM  

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.

Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.


Okay, try this. has DRM decreased piracy in the slightest. DRM is getting more restrictive with every new release but piracy keeps growing. Some pirates are even motivated by the presence of DRM, either in the challenge of breaking it or the fact that the pirated version comes without the intrusive features added by the DRM. How many games have been released and not show up as a torrent?

Clearly if the goal of DRM is to reduce piracy it has failed. No responsible businessperson is going to keep throwing money into DRM with the goal of stopping piracy because anyone can see it doesn't work. This leave only two possibilities. Either the people running these game publishers are of sub-Bevets intelligence or their motive is not stopping piracy.
 
2013-04-30 04:42:29 AM  

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.

Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.


Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete
 
2013-04-30 05:08:04 AM  

ParanoidAgnostic: Okay, try this. has DRM decreased piracy in the slightest. DRM is getting more restrictive with every new release but piracy keeps growing. Some pirates are even motivated by the presence of DRM, either in the challenge of breaking it or the fact that the pirated version comes without the intrusive features added by the DRM. How many games have been released and not show up as a torrent?

Clearly if the goal of DRM is to reduce piracy it has failed. No responsible businessperson is going to keep throwing money into DRM with the goal of stopping piracy because anyone can see it doesn't work. This leave only two possibilities. Either the people running these game publishers are of sub-Bevets intelligence or their motive is not stopping piracy.


I'm going to go with Option A, because there really is no brain behind it. The fight against piracy is a big nebulous idea, a lumbering creature. Just because some bloodsucker comes along and learns to make a buck off of it, it doesn't change the nature of the beast. Those elements absolutely do exist but you're confusing the parasite for the host. Repeat your point out loud, except try replacing the key words with "war on drugs" or "environmental regulations" or "bailouts", "pharmaceuticals", "insurance", "natural gas", "terrorism", "gun control", "mortgage lending", and so on ad nauseum. See how ridiculous it is?

Unless you believe there is a cat-stroking Dr. Evil character lurking behind each one of those issues... then remember to make your tinfoil hat shiny side out.
 
2013-04-30 05:14:14 AM  

ParanoidAgnostic: Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete


It was big enough in 1979 for a "60 Minutes" piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uln6HUXAmg
 
2013-04-30 06:45:21 AM  

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete

It was big enough in 1979 for a "60 Minutes" piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uln6HUXAmg


Not to mention that little supreme court case (Sony v. Universal Studios) that stated making a copy or recording a movie off tv for personal use isn't copyright infringement. Movie studios were as worried about the betamax and VHS recorders as the music industry was about the cassette tape. Despite their fears, piracy didn't stop the continued growth of either industry.

I Like Bread: It's amazing how many people assume I'm against them, when in reality I'm just trying to help them not make the rest of us look stupid. I file them under "Not Helping".


Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.
 
2013-04-30 08:16:33 AM  

YodaBlues: this


Which is why in another thread I said that a true Digital Rights Management system could be FOSS.   If the only goal is to operate in an above board and totally transparent manner protecting all involved parties rights then a transparent system makes sense.

But Digital Rights Management (DRM) has become another way of saying "Copy Protection" which, whilst part of a DRM system is not its singular purpose.  Stopping someone from printing an image in a PDF because you, the creator of that document, only have a license to display not to reproduce but still allowing the rest of the document to be printed is DRM.

And I've no problem with that sort of thing.   Copy Protection masquerading as DRM... that needs to be junked.
 
2013-04-30 08:24:20 AM  

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."


Strange, all the big kickstarter games being made by creative types driven out by the big companies are being released without drm.
 
2013-04-30 08:56:48 AM  
If you spend so much time playing games that you need to steal them, you need to go outside and talk to a girl, or something. If you can consume more than one or two games a year, you need to get a life.
 
2013-04-30 09:08:28 AM  
I Like Bread:

Factually inaccurate statements mixed with hyperbole.

Please continue, I wish to know why you  feel that the fab plants pumping out dubious copies of things, including all their packaging, is a smaller problem them some pissant small fry like TPB.   Please educate us on why these plants based in China and Russia pumping out far more counterfeit versions of a given game or movie than the most downloaded torrent could ever hope to achieve are not a major problem.

Off you trot, because this is going to be good.
 
2013-04-30 09:29:07 AM  

Vaneshi: Which is why in another thread I said that a true Digital Rights Management system could be FOSS


Except that it can't. The entire purpose of a DRM system is to apply restrictions to the implementors of the system. If the system itself is FOSS, there's no way to ensure that an implementor honors the restrictions. To the contrary, it makes subverting the restrictions trivial.
 
2013-04-30 09:41:32 AM  

jso2897: If you spend so much time playing games that you need to steal them, you need to go outside and talk to a girl, or something. If you can consume more than one or two games a year, you need to get a life.


Don't listen to him. It's a trap. I met a girl and got married. Now I'm not allowed to spend money on games.

/2 games a year is a little low. Especially since the buy-before-you-try model means you end up purchasing a few duds. I don't have a lot of free time but I'd say 6 decent games a year is not excessive.
 
2013-04-30 10:17:24 AM  
t3knomanser:
Except that it can't. The entire purpose of a DRM system is to apply restrictions to the implementors of the system. If the system itself is FOSS, there's no way to ensure that an implementor honors the restrictions. To the contrary, it makes subverting the restrictions trivial.

Then it is nothing but copy protection and must be ripped out, burned and those who create it sent in to bankruptcy  until such time as they realise it isn't a copy protection mechanism.  Burn. Them. All.

It should be managing everyones rights, not just a single entity in the whole chains.  A FOSS system keeps everyone honest and everything above board and allows for maximum compatibility with everyones hardware and systems.

Did you like ripping out your CD-RW when StarForce had a shiat fit? Well there you go.
 
2013-04-30 10:19:35 AM  

ParanoidAgnostic: jso2897: If you spend so much time playing games that you need to steal them, you need to go outside and talk to a girl, or something. If you can consume more than one or two games a year, you need to get a life.

Don't listen to him. It's a trap. I met a girl and got married. Now I'm not allowed to spend money on games.

/2 games a year is a little low. Especially since the buy-before-you-try model means you end up purchasing a few duds. I don't have a lot of free time but I'd say 6 decent games a year is not excessive.


I love how jealous people get when they realize that other people have more free time than them.  I have no kids and no responsibilities other than going to work. I can ski, bike, golf and camp and  play games as much as I like.
 
2013-04-30 12:43:50 PM  

YodaBlues: Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.


Sure thing, Mr. Piracy Is An Excuse To Enslave Us. Tell us again about how Obama just wants to take our guns.

Tyrone Slothrop: Strange, all the big kickstarter games being made by creative types driven out by the big companies are being released without drm.


Am I supposed to be surprised that they can do that with a system that pretty much guarantees money up front (often before any development has begun)? I'd be interested to see how their sales have kept up after launch.

Vaneshi: Please continue, I wish to know why you  feel that the fab plants pumping out dubious copies of things, including all their packaging, is a smaller problem them some pissant small fry like TPB.


Where did I say that? Please quote the part where I said these fab plants are no big deal. But yes, you're right... piracy is big business in a lot of places. Thanks for reinforcing my point.
 
2013-04-30 01:06:42 PM  

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

Sure thing, Mr. Piracy Is An Excuse To Enslave Us. Tell us again about how Obama just wants to take our guns.


Pfft, haha! That's the card you want to play?!? Dude, I'm a farking ACLU card-carrying, abortion and gay rights supporting, anti-war liberal who supports stronger gun control legislation than Obama jhas proposed! Hell, I voted for the dude twice now. Boy, did you ever peg me wrong, oh goodness, that's awesome. Thanks for the laugh ya simpleton. You've proved once again that you have zero critical thinking skills. Bless your heart...
 
2013-04-30 02:35:01 PM  

Celerian: Considering I got into programming at an early age because I wanted to work for Blizzard, I think I appreciate the people who make my entertainment a whole lot. So much that, as I said upthread, I would much rather meet an artist at a merch table and shove a crumpled ten into his sweaty, tired hands then spend $20 at Best Buy or through a mail-order music club where they won't see $2.00 of it. I've been burned in the past, and seeing that a good majority of the video game industry has gone this way, I am distrustful of new stuff. A company wants a surefire line to my pocket, sell me on one or two products through my distrusting nature, and then keep pumping out quality stuff. Yeah, Blizzard burned me with D3, but I've also been having a lot of fun with MoP, and I look forward to seeing what they do in the future. But now I'm going to be weary of what I jump on, just in case...


I have a habit of pirating music and then donating the price of the album to the artist via their website, seeing them live and buying a t-shirt at their merch table. And having asked some of said artists about this practice, they've all said they're okay with it because they see more money that way, though they do ask that I share and review their work on social media with links to the official release channels, so their chart numbers aren't too adversely effected by Ethical Piracy, which I am happy to do. It's closer to privateering than piracy anyway. I don't have to order a physical CD or put up with shiatty iSoftware or DRM to get the music and they don't have to wait for their label to see the money. I either funds-transfer it directly or physically place the cash in their hands.

Now, if game devs could set up a system to fairly distribute the online 'tip jar' among the employees who made a game, offer various LAN-party events to which one could buy tickets, meet the artists and similar, and then offer merch sales to not only make money, but advertise their work...I'd really like that system a lot better, but I'm not sure how it would work. So I generally don't pirate games. I bake cookies for friends and ask their opinion of games I'd like to try, and if they report horrible game-breaking bugs, shiatty DRM or other issues, I sigh and don't buy that one until its' in the clearance bin or on Steam and the issues are as fixed as they're going to get.

If you could return a bad or broken game and get some of your money back in exchange for a well-rounded and detailed critique, I'd buy a ton more games, but at $50-60 for a new one and fair odds that it might suck, the better options are ask-a-friend, pirate-to-try-it or wait-until-it's-cheap. Early adopters do seem to get hosed a lot with bugs and similar, and unless they can find a way to fix that (maybe pay their QC departments better and stop overworking them, open more games up in beta, etc.,) then piracy is always going to be an element of the industry. I'd also be okay with legitimate free trials where you can try, say, a full-featured first quarter of a game, and if it's good, buy the rest instantly. The reason why Ethical Piracy or pay-what-you-want works with music is because if an album sucks, you can delete it and say no more. If it's good, you just pay the artist and carry on.
 
2013-04-30 02:40:06 PM  

YodaBlues: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

Sure thing, Mr. Piracy Is An Excuse To Enslave Us. Tell us again about how Obama just wants to take our guns.

Pfft, haha! That's the card you want to play?!? Dude, I'm a farking ACLU card-carrying, abortion and gay rights supporting, anti-war liberal who supports stronger gun control legislation than Obama jhas proposed! Hell, I voted for the dude twice now. Boy, did you ever peg me wrong, oh goodness, that's awesome. Thanks for the laugh ya simpleton. You've proved once again that you have zero critical thinking skills. Bless your heart...


All that tells me is that your philosophy is inconsistent and narcissistic. For some reason, DRM is your false flag conspiracy of choice - probably because it's the only thing that directly affects your basement-dwelling lifestyle. You know, kind of like how small government Republicans vote unanimously against federal emergency services until it's THEIR state that gets the business end of a hurricane.  I wasn't trying to label you as a gun nut, but all the same, good job exposing your ownduplicity.
 
2013-04-30 02:59:52 PM  

I Like Bread: All that tells me is that your philosophy is inconsistent and narcissistic. For some reason, DRM is your false flag conspiracy of choice - probably because it's the only thing that directly affects your basement-dwelling lifestyle. You know, kind of like how small government Republicans vote unanimously against federal emergency services until it's THEIR state that gets the business end of a hurricane.  I wasn't trying to label you as a gun nut, but all the same, good job exposing your ownduplicity.


LOL, ok. Seriously dude, I think you have me confused with someone else in the thread here. My argument is quite simple: Piracy is NOT as big as the industry wants you to believe. It is an easy scapegoat for business practices that hurt the user and only benefit the corporation by controlling the end product. It's not really that hard. Instead of making games better, they treat their customers like criminals Draconian DRM that can lock out legitimate users. I'm a software developer, so I know a little bit about what I'm talking here.

Also, I'm very anti-corporation, something that is very consistent with liberal ideals. You know, the party of regulations and such. I don't see where this "PIRACY = ENSLAVEMENT DERPA DERPA" stuff is coming from, cause I certainly never said anything to that end.  Then again, you're profile says your from Philly, so I wouldn't expect you to be capable of rational thought.
 
2013-04-30 05:11:16 PM  

YodaBlues: LOL, ok. Seriously dude, I think you have me confused with someone else in the thread here.


Yeah, it must have been some other fruitcake who linked me to an insipid G+ rant explaining how DRM is not about piracy, the end goal is controlling consumers. That's where the PIRACY = ENSLAVEMENT DERPA DERP came from, but I guess that wasn't you.

Then again, you're profile says your from Philly, so I wouldn't expect you to be capable of rational thought.

Holy shiat, if you want to mock someone's intelligence, get "your" and "you're" straight, you stupid farkstain. I bet you felt a shiver of passive-aggressive dweeb pleasure as you typed that, you repressed autistic waste of life. Don't let me interrupt your busy day of jerking off on your Asuka pillow and fantasizing of hacking up the high-school jocks with your light saber.
 
2013-04-30 05:33:55 PM  

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: LOL, ok. Seriously dude, I think you have me confused with someone else in the thread here.

Yeah, it must have been some other fruitcake who linked me to an insipid G+ rant explaining how DRM is not about piracy, the end goal is controlling consumers. That's where the PIRACY = ENSLAVEMENT DERPA DERP came from, but I guess that wasn't you.


Must've been someone else. I linked to an article from the Penny Arcade Report, the video game news site from, hint hint, Penny Arcade. Not friggin' Google+. It was a nice article too, complete with citations and interviews from industry reps. And the article's point had nothing to with 'controlling consumers'. It was a look at how publishers are using the spectre of software piracy to attach DRM that shortens the software life cycle and squeezes every last dollar out of consumers with incremental yearly upgrades, day one DLC, and other goodies that have become commonplace.  I know your peanut brain has trouble with big words, but please, make an effort, ok champ?

Then again, you're profile says your from Philly, so I wouldn't expect you to be capable of rational thought.

Holy shiat, if you want to mock someone's intelligence, get "your" and "you're" straight, you stupid farkstain.


You have to have some intelligence before it can be mocked.

I bet you felt a shiver of passive-aggressive dweeb pleasure as you typed that, you repressed autistic waste of life. Don't let me interrupt your busy day of jerking off on your Asuka pillow and fantasizing of hacking up the high-school jocks with your light saber.

www.tacomaworld.com

/seriously, don't come in and attack people if you don't what the hell you're talking about.
//And Asuka?!? Rei all the way! The nice part about Rei, is that if she breaks, she's easily replaceable.
 
2013-04-30 06:37:22 PM  

YodaBlues: /seriously, don't come in and attack people if you don't what the hell you're talking about.


From your Penny Arcade link, right there on the farking header:

SOURCE AUTHOR
Ian Hickson

SOURCE SITE
Google+


Just stop right now. Seriously, it's not getting any better for you. If there was any possibility of you making a coherent point, you pissed it away by failing basic comprehension.

"They say they made DRM to stop piracy, but it's just an excuse to take our games and control us."
"They say they banned assault rifles to stop mass murder, but it's just an excuse to take our guns and control us."
"They say they made NDAA to stop terrorism, but it's just an excuse to take our privacy and control us."
"They say they ended slavery to stop slavery, but it's just an excuse to take our slaves and control us."

Same crazy bullshiat, different nouns.
 
2013-04-30 07:00:56 PM  

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: /seriously, don't come in and attack people if you don't what the hell you're talking about.

From your Penny Arcade link, right there on the farking header:

SOURCE AUTHOR
Ian Hickson

SOURCE SITE
Google+

Just stop right now. Seriously, it's not getting any better for you. If there was any possibility of you making a coherent point, you pissed it away by failing basic comprehension.

"They say they made DRM to stop piracy, but it's just an excuse to take our games and control us."
"They say they banned assault rifles to stop mass murder, but it's just an excuse to take our guns and control us."
"They say they made NDAA to stop terrorism, but it's just an excuse to take our privacy and control us."
"They say they ended slavery to stop slavery, but it's just an excuse to take our slaves and control us."

Same crazy bullshiat, different nouns.


Nowhere in the article does it say the purpose of DRM is to control people. This is what's in the article:

DRM's purpose is to give content providers control over software and hardware providers, and it is satisfying that purpose well.

Control over software and hardware. Which is bad for consumers. Which is what I said and what my entire argument is based on. Once again, your poor wittle mind was unable to comprehend a simple concept. And you should go ahead and read up on who Ian Hickson is. Cause it ain't some random dude on the interwebz. The guy helped write the spec that defined HTML5. He's worked at Netscape and Google. He knows more about content delivery and software engineering than you know about...well, anything it appears.

If I missed the part where it says DRM is meant to 'control people', please, highlight it. Otherwise, please don't ever breed. PA's welfare system is taxed enough as it is, with all Pennsyltucky'ians in the Pocono's.
 
2013-04-30 08:19:37 PM  

ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.

Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.

Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete


VHS piracy was HUUUUUUGGGEEE. My mom, who knows nothing about technology, was a pirating fool. We had hundreds and hundreds of tapes and she traded and copied back and forth with her friends constantly.

We still went to the movies and rented when we had some spare money but that shiat was expensive.
 
2013-04-30 09:18:41 PM  
The only game I've torrented was Rise of Nations. I bought it originally, played it for a few years, then Mac stopped supporting it. Some pirates figured out how to get it working again, so I downloaded it and played it for a while.

I count myself justified in torrenting it after pirates cared more about keeping the game going than the developer.
 
2013-04-30 10:05:54 PM  

YodaBlues: If I missed the part where it says DRM is meant to 'control people', please, highlight it. Otherwise, please don't ever breed. PA's welfare system is taxed enough as it is, with all Pennsyltucky'ians in the Pocono's.


The Pocono's what?
Well, your misunderstanding of the piracy issue and the Google guy's misunderstanding of the piracy issue are two different kinds of incorrect. You're not saying exactly what he's saying. But since you asked...

From Penny Arcade:
I do think that DRM in games is often used to stop piracy, but the argument that it's more useful to control the viewers of content is fascinating.

From you:
they treat their customers like criminals Draconian DRM that can lock out legitimate users.
You aren't buying games/software anymore, you buy a 'license' that can be revoked whenever the content provider wants to.
DRM's purpose is to give content providers control over software and hardware providers, and it is satisfying that purpose well.


Now, maybe "software and hardware providers" isn't what you meant by people - but despite your embarrassing attempt to win an argument with pedantry, the main idea that anti-piracy is really about CONTROL remains completely unchanged.

I'm not denying that any of this stuff happens. Of course studios take large steps to lock down the media. But they do this BECAUSE OF, not UNDER THE GUISE OF, the misguided anti-piracy movement caused by - you guessed it - rampant piracy. See, our viewpoints are exactly the same. Mine is just the cynical realist version while yours is the paranoid tinfoil hat version.

Now call me a "sheep" and declare victory. Go on then.
 
2013-04-30 10:44:29 PM  
I Like Bread:
Now call me a "sheep" and declare victory. Go on then.

media.tumblr.com


/Pennsyltucky is that area between Pittsburgh and Philly where nothing happens....which is most of PA.
 
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