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(Escapist Magazine)   Developer releases cracked bugged version of "Game Developer Tycoon" that dooms the player to losing to piracy   (escapistmagazine.com) divider line 174
    More: Silly, Game Dev Tycoon, pirate game, game development, BitTorrent tracker, adaptations  
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2960 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Apr 2013 at 12:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-30 05:08:04 AM

ParanoidAgnostic: Okay, try this. has DRM decreased piracy in the slightest. DRM is getting more restrictive with every new release but piracy keeps growing. Some pirates are even motivated by the presence of DRM, either in the challenge of breaking it or the fact that the pirated version comes without the intrusive features added by the DRM. How many games have been released and not show up as a torrent?

Clearly if the goal of DRM is to reduce piracy it has failed. No responsible businessperson is going to keep throwing money into DRM with the goal of stopping piracy because anyone can see it doesn't work. This leave only two possibilities. Either the people running these game publishers are of sub-Bevets intelligence or their motive is not stopping piracy.


I'm going to go with Option A, because there really is no brain behind it. The fight against piracy is a big nebulous idea, a lumbering creature. Just because some bloodsucker comes along and learns to make a buck off of it, it doesn't change the nature of the beast. Those elements absolutely do exist but you're confusing the parasite for the host. Repeat your point out loud, except try replacing the key words with "war on drugs" or "environmental regulations" or "bailouts", "pharmaceuticals", "insurance", "natural gas", "terrorism", "gun control", "mortgage lending", and so on ad nauseum. See how ridiculous it is?

Unless you believe there is a cat-stroking Dr. Evil character lurking behind each one of those issues... then remember to make your tinfoil hat shiny side out.
 
2013-04-30 05:14:14 AM

ParanoidAgnostic: Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete


It was big enough in 1979 for a "60 Minutes" piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uln6HUXAmg
 
2013-04-30 06:45:21 AM

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete

It was big enough in 1979 for a "60 Minutes" piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uln6HUXAmg


Not to mention that little supreme court case (Sony v. Universal Studios) that stated making a copy or recording a movie off tv for personal use isn't copyright infringement. Movie studios were as worried about the betamax and VHS recorders as the music industry was about the cassette tape. Despite their fears, piracy didn't stop the continued growth of either industry.

I Like Bread: It's amazing how many people assume I'm against them, when in reality I'm just trying to help them not make the rest of us look stupid. I file them under "Not Helping".


Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.
 
2013-04-30 08:16:33 AM

YodaBlues: this


Which is why in another thread I said that a true Digital Rights Management system could be FOSS.   If the only goal is to operate in an above board and totally transparent manner protecting all involved parties rights then a transparent system makes sense.

But Digital Rights Management (DRM) has become another way of saying "Copy Protection" which, whilst part of a DRM system is not its singular purpose.  Stopping someone from printing an image in a PDF because you, the creator of that document, only have a license to display not to reproduce but still allowing the rest of the document to be printed is DRM.

And I've no problem with that sort of thing.   Copy Protection masquerading as DRM... that needs to be junked.
 
2013-04-30 08:24:20 AM

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."


Strange, all the big kickstarter games being made by creative types driven out by the big companies are being released without drm.
 
2013-04-30 08:56:48 AM
If you spend so much time playing games that you need to steal them, you need to go outside and talk to a girl, or something. If you can consume more than one or two games a year, you need to get a life.
 
2013-04-30 09:08:28 AM
I Like Bread:

Factually inaccurate statements mixed with hyperbole.

Please continue, I wish to know why you  feel that the fab plants pumping out dubious copies of things, including all their packaging, is a smaller problem them some pissant small fry like TPB.   Please educate us on why these plants based in China and Russia pumping out far more counterfeit versions of a given game or movie than the most downloaded torrent could ever hope to achieve are not a major problem.

Off you trot, because this is going to be good.
 
2013-04-30 09:29:07 AM

Vaneshi: Which is why in another thread I said that a true Digital Rights Management system could be FOSS


Except that it can't. The entire purpose of a DRM system is to apply restrictions to the implementors of the system. If the system itself is FOSS, there's no way to ensure that an implementor honors the restrictions. To the contrary, it makes subverting the restrictions trivial.
 
2013-04-30 09:41:32 AM

jso2897: If you spend so much time playing games that you need to steal them, you need to go outside and talk to a girl, or something. If you can consume more than one or two games a year, you need to get a life.


Don't listen to him. It's a trap. I met a girl and got married. Now I'm not allowed to spend money on games.

/2 games a year is a little low. Especially since the buy-before-you-try model means you end up purchasing a few duds. I don't have a lot of free time but I'd say 6 decent games a year is not excessive.
 
2013-04-30 10:17:24 AM
t3knomanser:
Except that it can't. The entire purpose of a DRM system is to apply restrictions to the implementors of the system. If the system itself is FOSS, there's no way to ensure that an implementor honors the restrictions. To the contrary, it makes subverting the restrictions trivial.

Then it is nothing but copy protection and must be ripped out, burned and those who create it sent in to bankruptcy  until such time as they realise it isn't a copy protection mechanism.  Burn. Them. All.

It should be managing everyones rights, not just a single entity in the whole chains.  A FOSS system keeps everyone honest and everything above board and allows for maximum compatibility with everyones hardware and systems.

Did you like ripping out your CD-RW when StarForce had a shiat fit? Well there you go.
 
2013-04-30 10:19:35 AM

ParanoidAgnostic: jso2897: If you spend so much time playing games that you need to steal them, you need to go outside and talk to a girl, or something. If you can consume more than one or two games a year, you need to get a life.

Don't listen to him. It's a trap. I met a girl and got married. Now I'm not allowed to spend money on games.

/2 games a year is a little low. Especially since the buy-before-you-try model means you end up purchasing a few duds. I don't have a lot of free time but I'd say 6 decent games a year is not excessive.


I love how jealous people get when they realize that other people have more free time than them.  I have no kids and no responsibilities other than going to work. I can ski, bike, golf and camp and  play games as much as I like.
 
2013-04-30 12:43:50 PM

YodaBlues: Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.


Sure thing, Mr. Piracy Is An Excuse To Enslave Us. Tell us again about how Obama just wants to take our guns.

Tyrone Slothrop: Strange, all the big kickstarter games being made by creative types driven out by the big companies are being released without drm.


Am I supposed to be surprised that they can do that with a system that pretty much guarantees money up front (often before any development has begun)? I'd be interested to see how their sales have kept up after launch.

Vaneshi: Please continue, I wish to know why you  feel that the fab plants pumping out dubious copies of things, including all their packaging, is a smaller problem them some pissant small fry like TPB.


Where did I say that? Please quote the part where I said these fab plants are no big deal. But yes, you're right... piracy is big business in a lot of places. Thanks for reinforcing my point.
 
2013-04-30 01:06:42 PM

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

Sure thing, Mr. Piracy Is An Excuse To Enslave Us. Tell us again about how Obama just wants to take our guns.


Pfft, haha! That's the card you want to play?!? Dude, I'm a farking ACLU card-carrying, abortion and gay rights supporting, anti-war liberal who supports stronger gun control legislation than Obama jhas proposed! Hell, I voted for the dude twice now. Boy, did you ever peg me wrong, oh goodness, that's awesome. Thanks for the laugh ya simpleton. You've proved once again that you have zero critical thinking skills. Bless your heart...
 
2013-04-30 02:35:01 PM

Celerian: Considering I got into programming at an early age because I wanted to work for Blizzard, I think I appreciate the people who make my entertainment a whole lot. So much that, as I said upthread, I would much rather meet an artist at a merch table and shove a crumpled ten into his sweaty, tired hands then spend $20 at Best Buy or through a mail-order music club where they won't see $2.00 of it. I've been burned in the past, and seeing that a good majority of the video game industry has gone this way, I am distrustful of new stuff. A company wants a surefire line to my pocket, sell me on one or two products through my distrusting nature, and then keep pumping out quality stuff. Yeah, Blizzard burned me with D3, but I've also been having a lot of fun with MoP, and I look forward to seeing what they do in the future. But now I'm going to be weary of what I jump on, just in case...


I have a habit of pirating music and then donating the price of the album to the artist via their website, seeing them live and buying a t-shirt at their merch table. And having asked some of said artists about this practice, they've all said they're okay with it because they see more money that way, though they do ask that I share and review their work on social media with links to the official release channels, so their chart numbers aren't too adversely effected by Ethical Piracy, which I am happy to do. It's closer to privateering than piracy anyway. I don't have to order a physical CD or put up with shiatty iSoftware or DRM to get the music and they don't have to wait for their label to see the money. I either funds-transfer it directly or physically place the cash in their hands.

Now, if game devs could set up a system to fairly distribute the online 'tip jar' among the employees who made a game, offer various LAN-party events to which one could buy tickets, meet the artists and similar, and then offer merch sales to not only make money, but advertise their work...I'd really like that system a lot better, but I'm not sure how it would work. So I generally don't pirate games. I bake cookies for friends and ask their opinion of games I'd like to try, and if they report horrible game-breaking bugs, shiatty DRM or other issues, I sigh and don't buy that one until its' in the clearance bin or on Steam and the issues are as fixed as they're going to get.

If you could return a bad or broken game and get some of your money back in exchange for a well-rounded and detailed critique, I'd buy a ton more games, but at $50-60 for a new one and fair odds that it might suck, the better options are ask-a-friend, pirate-to-try-it or wait-until-it's-cheap. Early adopters do seem to get hosed a lot with bugs and similar, and unless they can find a way to fix that (maybe pay their QC departments better and stop overworking them, open more games up in beta, etc.,) then piracy is always going to be an element of the industry. I'd also be okay with legitimate free trials where you can try, say, a full-featured first quarter of a game, and if it's good, buy the rest instantly. The reason why Ethical Piracy or pay-what-you-want works with music is because if an album sucks, you can delete it and say no more. If it's good, you just pay the artist and carry on.
 
2013-04-30 02:40:06 PM

YodaBlues: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: Nah, you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

Sure thing, Mr. Piracy Is An Excuse To Enslave Us. Tell us again about how Obama just wants to take our guns.

Pfft, haha! That's the card you want to play?!? Dude, I'm a farking ACLU card-carrying, abortion and gay rights supporting, anti-war liberal who supports stronger gun control legislation than Obama jhas proposed! Hell, I voted for the dude twice now. Boy, did you ever peg me wrong, oh goodness, that's awesome. Thanks for the laugh ya simpleton. You've proved once again that you have zero critical thinking skills. Bless your heart...


All that tells me is that your philosophy is inconsistent and narcissistic. For some reason, DRM is your false flag conspiracy of choice - probably because it's the only thing that directly affects your basement-dwelling lifestyle. You know, kind of like how small government Republicans vote unanimously against federal emergency services until it's THEIR state that gets the business end of a hurricane.  I wasn't trying to label you as a gun nut, but all the same, good job exposing your ownduplicity.
 
2013-04-30 02:59:52 PM

I Like Bread: All that tells me is that your philosophy is inconsistent and narcissistic. For some reason, DRM is your false flag conspiracy of choice - probably because it's the only thing that directly affects your basement-dwelling lifestyle. You know, kind of like how small government Republicans vote unanimously against federal emergency services until it's THEIR state that gets the business end of a hurricane.  I wasn't trying to label you as a gun nut, but all the same, good job exposing your ownduplicity.


LOL, ok. Seriously dude, I think you have me confused with someone else in the thread here. My argument is quite simple: Piracy is NOT as big as the industry wants you to believe. It is an easy scapegoat for business practices that hurt the user and only benefit the corporation by controlling the end product. It's not really that hard. Instead of making games better, they treat their customers like criminals Draconian DRM that can lock out legitimate users. I'm a software developer, so I know a little bit about what I'm talking here.

Also, I'm very anti-corporation, something that is very consistent with liberal ideals. You know, the party of regulations and such. I don't see where this "PIRACY = ENSLAVEMENT DERPA DERPA" stuff is coming from, cause I certainly never said anything to that end.  Then again, you're profile says your from Philly, so I wouldn't expect you to be capable of rational thought.
 
2013-04-30 05:11:16 PM

YodaBlues: LOL, ok. Seriously dude, I think you have me confused with someone else in the thread here.


Yeah, it must have been some other fruitcake who linked me to an insipid G+ rant explaining how DRM is not about piracy, the end goal is controlling consumers. That's where the PIRACY = ENSLAVEMENT DERPA DERP came from, but I guess that wasn't you.

Then again, you're profile says your from Philly, so I wouldn't expect you to be capable of rational thought.

Holy shiat, if you want to mock someone's intelligence, get "your" and "you're" straight, you stupid farkstain. I bet you felt a shiver of passive-aggressive dweeb pleasure as you typed that, you repressed autistic waste of life. Don't let me interrupt your busy day of jerking off on your Asuka pillow and fantasizing of hacking up the high-school jocks with your light saber.
 
2013-04-30 05:33:55 PM

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: LOL, ok. Seriously dude, I think you have me confused with someone else in the thread here.

Yeah, it must have been some other fruitcake who linked me to an insipid G+ rant explaining how DRM is not about piracy, the end goal is controlling consumers. That's where the PIRACY = ENSLAVEMENT DERPA DERP came from, but I guess that wasn't you.


Must've been someone else. I linked to an article from the Penny Arcade Report, the video game news site from, hint hint, Penny Arcade. Not friggin' Google+. It was a nice article too, complete with citations and interviews from industry reps. And the article's point had nothing to with 'controlling consumers'. It was a look at how publishers are using the spectre of software piracy to attach DRM that shortens the software life cycle and squeezes every last dollar out of consumers with incremental yearly upgrades, day one DLC, and other goodies that have become commonplace.  I know your peanut brain has trouble with big words, but please, make an effort, ok champ?

Then again, you're profile says your from Philly, so I wouldn't expect you to be capable of rational thought.

Holy shiat, if you want to mock someone's intelligence, get "your" and "you're" straight, you stupid farkstain.


You have to have some intelligence before it can be mocked.

I bet you felt a shiver of passive-aggressive dweeb pleasure as you typed that, you repressed autistic waste of life. Don't let me interrupt your busy day of jerking off on your Asuka pillow and fantasizing of hacking up the high-school jocks with your light saber.

www.tacomaworld.com

/seriously, don't come in and attack people if you don't what the hell you're talking about.
//And Asuka?!? Rei all the way! The nice part about Rei, is that if she breaks, she's easily replaceable.
 
2013-04-30 06:37:22 PM

YodaBlues: /seriously, don't come in and attack people if you don't what the hell you're talking about.


From your Penny Arcade link, right there on the farking header:

SOURCE AUTHOR
Ian Hickson

SOURCE SITE
Google+


Just stop right now. Seriously, it's not getting any better for you. If there was any possibility of you making a coherent point, you pissed it away by failing basic comprehension.

"They say they made DRM to stop piracy, but it's just an excuse to take our games and control us."
"They say they banned assault rifles to stop mass murder, but it's just an excuse to take our guns and control us."
"They say they made NDAA to stop terrorism, but it's just an excuse to take our privacy and control us."
"They say they ended slavery to stop slavery, but it's just an excuse to take our slaves and control us."

Same crazy bullshiat, different nouns.
 
2013-04-30 07:00:56 PM

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: /seriously, don't come in and attack people if you don't what the hell you're talking about.

From your Penny Arcade link, right there on the farking header:

SOURCE AUTHOR
Ian Hickson

SOURCE SITE
Google+

Just stop right now. Seriously, it's not getting any better for you. If there was any possibility of you making a coherent point, you pissed it away by failing basic comprehension.

"They say they made DRM to stop piracy, but it's just an excuse to take our games and control us."
"They say they banned assault rifles to stop mass murder, but it's just an excuse to take our guns and control us."
"They say they made NDAA to stop terrorism, but it's just an excuse to take our privacy and control us."
"They say they ended slavery to stop slavery, but it's just an excuse to take our slaves and control us."

Same crazy bullshiat, different nouns.


Nowhere in the article does it say the purpose of DRM is to control people. This is what's in the article:

DRM's purpose is to give content providers control over software and hardware providers, and it is satisfying that purpose well.

Control over software and hardware. Which is bad for consumers. Which is what I said and what my entire argument is based on. Once again, your poor wittle mind was unable to comprehend a simple concept. And you should go ahead and read up on who Ian Hickson is. Cause it ain't some random dude on the interwebz. The guy helped write the spec that defined HTML5. He's worked at Netscape and Google. He knows more about content delivery and software engineering than you know about...well, anything it appears.

If I missed the part where it says DRM is meant to 'control people', please, highlight it. Otherwise, please don't ever breed. PA's welfare system is taxed enough as it is, with all Pennsyltucky'ians in the Pocono's.
 
2013-04-30 08:19:37 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.

Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.

Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete


VHS piracy was HUUUUUUGGGEEE. My mom, who knows nothing about technology, was a pirating fool. We had hundreds and hundreds of tapes and she traded and copied back and forth with her friends constantly.

We still went to the movies and rented when we had some spare money but that shiat was expensive.
 
2013-04-30 09:18:41 PM
The only game I've torrented was Rise of Nations. I bought it originally, played it for a few years, then Mac stopped supporting it. Some pirates figured out how to get it working again, so I downloaded it and played it for a while.

I count myself justified in torrenting it after pirates cared more about keeping the game going than the developer.
 
2013-04-30 10:05:54 PM

YodaBlues: If I missed the part where it says DRM is meant to 'control people', please, highlight it. Otherwise, please don't ever breed. PA's welfare system is taxed enough as it is, with all Pennsyltucky'ians in the Pocono's.


The Pocono's what?
Well, your misunderstanding of the piracy issue and the Google guy's misunderstanding of the piracy issue are two different kinds of incorrect. You're not saying exactly what he's saying. But since you asked...

From Penny Arcade:
I do think that DRM in games is often used to stop piracy, but the argument that it's more useful to control the viewers of content is fascinating.

From you:
they treat their customers like criminals Draconian DRM that can lock out legitimate users.
You aren't buying games/software anymore, you buy a 'license' that can be revoked whenever the content provider wants to.
DRM's purpose is to give content providers control over software and hardware providers, and it is satisfying that purpose well.


Now, maybe "software and hardware providers" isn't what you meant by people - but despite your embarrassing attempt to win an argument with pedantry, the main idea that anti-piracy is really about CONTROL remains completely unchanged.

I'm not denying that any of this stuff happens. Of course studios take large steps to lock down the media. But they do this BECAUSE OF, not UNDER THE GUISE OF, the misguided anti-piracy movement caused by - you guessed it - rampant piracy. See, our viewpoints are exactly the same. Mine is just the cynical realist version while yours is the paranoid tinfoil hat version.

Now call me a "sheep" and declare victory. Go on then.
 
2013-04-30 10:44:29 PM
I Like Bread:
Now call me a "sheep" and declare victory. Go on then.

media.tumblr.com


/Pennsyltucky is that area between Pittsburgh and Philly where nothing happens....which is most of PA.
 
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