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(Escapist Magazine)   Developer releases cracked bugged version of "Game Developer Tycoon" that dooms the player to losing to piracy   (escapistmagazine.com) divider line 174
    More: Silly, Game Dev Tycoon, pirate game, game development, BitTorrent tracker, adaptations  
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2962 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Apr 2013 at 12:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-29 04:53:23 PM

Celerian: Considering I got into programming at an early age because I wanted to work for Blizzard, I think I appreciate the people who make my entertainment a whole lot. So much that, as I said upthread, I would much rather meet an artist at a merch table and shove a crumpled ten into his sweaty, tired hands then spend $20 at Best Buy or through a mail-order music club where they won't see $2.00 of it. I've been burned in the past, and seeing that a good majority of the video game industry has gone this way, I am distrustful of new stuff. A company wants a surefire line to my pocket, sell me on one or two products through my distrusting nature, and then keep pumping out quality stuff. Yeah, Blizzard burned me with D3, but I've also been having a lot of fun with MoP, and I look forward to seeing what they do in the future. But now I'm going to be weary of what I jump on, just in case...


Yah I'd uh, well I'd steer clear of Blizzard, they are so deeply infected with Activision at this point the average manager could probably tell you what temperature Booby Kotick's fingers are at any given moment.  I don't even really buy many AAA titles or from AAA publishers anymore(Bethesda is a solid exception, they have so far rocked), the money I tend to throw around more loosely goes to the indies or the quasi-indies like Paradox's stable of developers and such.  I'm prone to throwing $20 at games like Impire or Legend of Grimlock that're close to what I like but ultimately don't play more then an evening or two, I've still bought a few that I truly did not like (Of Orcs and Men comes to mind) but meh that's $20 and considering all the sales where I've picked up a lot of great titles on the super cheap I'm still ahead.  But, I *always* pay for my video gaming now, always.  I pick and choose whom I pay and how and prefer to pay the little guys then the big ones, but I always pay because that's fair and I want to support the industry that is my primary source of entertainment, and I tend to do it through their rules because its not just about getting the dollars into the developer house's hands but also to show the publishers that there is demand for their product, otherwise we get into the vicious loop of sci-fi fans who'll download the shows right up until they get cancelled because it makes no money despite having a 'huge fan base'.

The main thing is no more blindly pre-ordering except for exceptional 'known goods' like for instance Skyrim.  Previews, demos, word of mouth, whatever gives me info about a game is all good.  But no, I'm not pouty enough anymore to freeload a game and play it through and only then decide if the developers deserved my financial thanks.
 
2013-04-29 05:00:24 PM
I mean, yeah, you can host your own torrent on release day and use that as evidence that piracy is killing the games industry.

You can also jump off a tall building to prove that gravity is out to get us. It's okay to second guess yourself sometimes.

That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work.
 
2013-04-29 05:03:09 PM

BumpInTheNight: Yah I'd uh, well I'd steer clear of Blizzard, they are so deeply infected with Activision at this point the average manager could probably tell you what temperature Booby Kotick's fingers are at any given moment.  I don't even really buy many AAA titles or from AAA publishers anymore(Bethesda is a solid exception, they have so far rocked), the money I tend to throw around more loosely goes to the indies or the quasi-indies like Paradox's stable of developers and such.  I'm prone to throwing $20 at games like Impire or Legend of Grimlock that're close to what I like but ultimately don't play more then an evening or two, I've still bought a few that I truly did not like (Of Orcs and Men comes to mind) but meh that's $20 and considering all the sales where I've picked up a lot of great titles on the super cheap I'm still ahead.  But, I *always* pay for my video gaming now, always.  I pick and choose whom I pay and how and prefer to pay the little guys then the big ones, but I always pay because that's fair and I want to support the industry that is my primary source of entertainment, and I tend to do it through their rules because its not just about getting the dollars into the developer house's hands but also to show the publishers that there is demand for their product, otherwise we get into the vicious loop of sci-fi fans who'll download the shows right up until they get cancelled because it makes no money despite having a 'huge fan base'.

The main thing is no more blindly pre-ordering except for exceptional 'known goods' like for instance Skyrim.  Previews, demos, word of mouth, whatever gives me info about a game is all good.  But no, I'm not pouty enough anymore to freeload a game and play it through and only then decide if the developers deserved my financial thanks.


I respect that position. I don't pirate nearly as much as I used to because I am now 27, I have two kids, and a full time job. Along with that, I am still very much a "wow addict" which means I don't have a whole lot of time for other games. Despite the fallout from Diablo 3, I am still a fan of the stuff Blizzard does, I just wish they'd break from Activision, but I know it will never happen. I think the last indie game I bought just for the fark of it was on a Steam sale, and it was a tower defense game that I thought might be cool. It turns out that it wasn't great, as I've had more fun with flash based Tower Defence games. Usually if the game is $5 or less and I want to try it out, I'll go for it, because its not even worth the time to pirate and try. Most of them are quick time wasters that I play for a few hours and then forget I even bought. Once we start getting above $10, I feel like I should spend more time with my investment, or get to try it out. If I'm not going to do either, then I convince myself (correctly) that the game wasn't that important and I don't need it.
 
2013-04-29 05:06:30 PM

Celerian: BumpInTheNight: Celerian: Because I didn't NEED it, stupid. Follow along

I sincerely hope that people appreciate but never NEED your work, as well.

If I worked in the entertainment industry, that's exactly how it would pan out. Unfortunately, in my line of work, I am necessary, to keep things running without issues. And when there ARE issues, I'm really important, until the issues are fixed. And then I'm not nearly as interesting.

The point I was making is that no matter what the game costs, I don't NEED it. Until I decide I WANT it, they haven't generated a sale.

I have $60 bucks in my hand.

With my $60 bucks, I could buy gas for my car for a month. I need the gas in order to get around, especially back and forth to work.

I could also buy Game X. Game X isn't something that I need, because I would only use it in my spare time. I have other things I can do in my spare time, but maybe Game X looks interesting. The $60 I spend on Game X wouldn't make me miss out on anything else, but I could always use that $60 on something that I need. And of course, the only thing I have to go on is a crappy trailer, some bullshiat reviews and a few pictures and descriptions of Game X. This is not like my ability to watch an entire season of a television show and go to the store and buy it on DVD because, hey, I'd really like to watch Ross and Rachael get together and break up anytime I want to. This is not like listening to an album online and thinking, "Damn, I'd love to listen to the collected works of John Prine while driving in my automobile!" No, this is the video game industry asking me to drop a substancial amount of money on something that I might not be able to try out.

I would like you to spend $60 bucks on my television series, BLORT!. BLORT! is a scifi drama with breathtaking visuals, exciting space battles, and deep storylines. All of the critics are saying BLORT! is a must-watch, edge-of-your-seat, wild ride. Here are some still images and a 30 second promo spo ...


shut up and take my money
 
2013-04-29 05:21:51 PM

BumpInTheNight: The main thing is no more blindly pre-ordering except for exceptional 'known goods' like for instance Skyrim.  Previews, demos, word of mouth, whatever gives me info about a game is all good.  But no, I'm not pouty enough anymore to freeload a game and play it through and only then decide if the developers deserved my financial thanks.


I've done the same.  I rarely preorder now and tend towards a wait and see approach for most games.  Plus steam sales have given me a health backlog of things to try, so I can afford the wait as well.  Some of that money has gone toward little indie kickstarters for things that look curious.  I don't expect them to be good, but i'm willing to pitch $15 for a copy and something potentially different.
 
2013-04-29 05:24:19 PM

cman: FTA

The depressing results of its own game's day one piracy rates show that only 6.4% of people playing the game bought it legitimately.


Jesus Christ and people wonder why crippling DRM is included in PC games


Doesn't seem to bother CD Projekt RED (The Witcher series).
 
2013-04-29 05:31:48 PM

Celerian: I respect that position. I don't pirate nearly as much as I used to because I am now 27, I have two kids, and a full time job. Along with that, I am still very much a "wow addict" which means I don't have a whole lot of time for other games. Despite the fallout from Diablo 3, I am still a fan of the stuff Blizzard does, I just wish they'd break from Activision, but I know it will never happen. I think the last indie game I bought just for the fark of it was on a Steam sale, and it was a tower defense game that I thought might be cool. It turns out that it wasn't great, as I've had more fun with flash based Tower Defence games. Usually if the game is $5 or less and I want to try it out, I'll go for it, because its not even worth the time to pirate and try. Most of them are quick time wasters that I play for a few hours and then forget I even bought. Once we start getting above $10, I feel like I should spend more time with my investment, or get to try it out. If I'm not going to do either, then I convince myself (correctly) that the game wasn't that important and I don't need it.


Aye, the cost/hours entertained ratio for me is about a dollar an hour to be considered a good purchase and yah when it came to subscription games like WoW the ratio is exceptionally high for sure, and I totally remember how dismissive I could be about other games when I was playing it too.  I think its the steam sales that have netted the highest bang/buck, bought the complete Sword of the Stars a few years ago for $20 and man looking at my steam profile I've logged 348 hours on that sucker.  That game alone balanced out many a stinker.  I'm also a little older then yourself (34), also a software guy but no kids yet so I guess my threshold for disposable spending is a wee bit higher that's all :)
 
2013-04-29 05:36:43 PM
The sad thing is I probably spend way too much money on games and yet I get accused of not supporting the industry.
 
2013-04-29 05:47:41 PM

Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work


Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.
 
2013-04-29 05:54:13 PM

Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.


Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.
 
2013-04-29 06:24:20 PM

StopLurkListen: Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.

Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.


Yeah, looks like it's specifically a Windows 8 "app". Guess I'll pass, then.
 
2013-04-29 06:29:15 PM
So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."
 
2013-04-29 06:33:46 PM

Obbi: StopLurkListen: Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.

Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.

Yeah, looks like it's specifically a Windows 8 "app". Guess I'll pass, then.


Erk, my bad, looks like the fastspring site lists it for XP, Vista, and 7. Maybe when I get home the demo page will be back up.
 
2013-04-29 06:38:24 PM

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.


Followed by more misdirected rage. I like you!
 
2013-04-29 06:41:21 PM

Obbi: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Followed by more misdirected rage. I like you!


Was there something you disagreed with? I stand by the source of my rage.
 
2013-04-29 06:52:20 PM

I Like Bread: Obbi: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Followed by more misdirected rage. I like you!

Was there something you disagreed with? I stand by the source of my rage.


I do have one general thought that disagrees with yours. I'm having to head home pretty soon so I can't immediately jump into a good solid debate on it though.

I'm of the "piracy hurts, but definitely hasn't killed" thought. Creative forces were driven out by piracy, I believe they were driven out by the business folk that had more of a sense for profit than product, and essentially all the "creative talent" these days either have to figure out a way to fund their own projects with a small team, or doom themselves to sweatshop-style work at the hands of the large publishers.

In that sense, pirating probably hurts the small team there, but the Marketing Major has done far more damage. Also, I don't think you'd respect somebody if they blatantly asked you to punch them in the mouth, but that's just my opinion.
 
2013-04-29 06:56:53 PM

Obbi: Creative forces weren't driven out by piracy


Helps to proofread.
 
2013-04-29 06:58:14 PM
Bullshiat. The used game industry is what spawned this crap, because companies like EA couldn't get an extra cut of the pie that they already bit from. That's why intrusive DRM was created and why always-online is being pushed. You don't own the game anymore. Piracy didn't spawn this crap, greed did. They want to destroy the second-hand market without actually saying they're trying to destroy the second-hand market.

Why is it that Indie devs are actually ok with piracy, while big publicly-traded companies keep screaming about the piracy boogeyman that's gonna doom them?

/And one more time just for measure: Piracy ≠ theft
 
2013-04-29 06:59:10 PM

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.


Oops, meant to quote you above.
 
2013-04-29 07:00:18 PM

scottydoesntknow: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Oops, meant to quote you above.


I pirated Eurotrip
 
2013-04-29 07:05:37 PM

Girion47: scottydoesntknow: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

Oops, meant to quote you above.

I pirated Eurotrip


It's entirely your fault that there is not a Eurotrip 2. I hope you feel bad about that.

/Not really
 
2013-04-29 07:42:23 PM

Obbi: Obbi: StopLurkListen: Lumbar Puncture: Obbi: That said, is this game for mobile only? I was hoping to give it a shot on my desktop when I get off work

Game Dev Tycoon (this game) is for Windows.

Game Dev Story is for mobile.

Windows 8 or RT. Sadface.

Yeah, looks like it's specifically a Windows 8 "app". Guess I'll pass, then.

Erk, my bad, looks like the fastspring site lists it for XP, Vista, and 7. Maybe when I get home the demo page will be back up.


Oh, nice. Their own shopping page was down earlier today, so I followed the Microsoft Store link, which said Win8/RT only.

I'm getting out my wallet. I love to support indie devs. (I was one until recently)
 
2013-04-29 08:33:14 PM
Side note for developer:
I've bought copies of Railworks for friends as a joke.  farking RAILWORKS.

And I can't even imagine buying this lame assed game for anyone, even as a damn joke.  That's how lame this game seems.  And you're surprised that people are pirating it (assuming you're not lying about it)?
 
2013-04-29 08:47:12 PM

I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."


You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.
 
2013-04-29 08:49:16 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Side note for developer:
I've bought copies of Railworks for friends as a joke.  farking RAILWORKS.

And I can't even imagine buying this lame assed game for anyone, even as a damn joke.  That's how lame this game seems.  And you're surprised that people are pirating it (assuming you're not lying about it)?


Green Heart Games makes RailWorks?
 
2013-04-29 09:00:59 PM

LesserEvil: Satanic_Hamster: Side note for developer:
I've bought copies of Railworks for friends as a joke.  farking RAILWORKS.

And I can't even imagine buying this lame assed game for anyone, even as a damn joke.  That's how lame this game seems.  And you're surprised that people are pirating it (assuming you're not lying about it)?

Green Heart Games makes RailWorks?


Who the hell cares who makes RailWorks?  It's a boring assed railroad simulator.  You can't even derail the trains!
 
2013-04-29 09:01:53 PM
How quickly do you lose the game when you introduce day one DLC, always online, and push franchises that were once stand-alone toward a subscription model?
 
2013-04-29 09:02:02 PM
This was an amazing publicity stunt by a developer that ripped off another developer.
 
2013-04-29 09:08:23 PM

YodaBlues: I Like Bread: So much misdirected rage and justification for piracy in this thread.

I don't give a shiat what your excuses are. The developer's main point, and one I agree with entirely, is that this is what you get. While you're justifying your activity, companies like EA and Activision are doing justifications of their own. They think as little of DRM and day-one DLC as you do about compulsively torrenting. Game companies are now run by business majors intent on maximizing profit margins to offset losses. The creative giants were run out by the pirates years ago.

You can derail the discussion, parroting "piracy isn't theft" all you like. What you can't avoid is the fact that you did this. See all this bullshiat that used to be the game industry? YOU did it. So thanks a bunch, farkstains. Personally, I'd have more respect if you stood up and admitted this. "I pirate software just because I can get away with it. I'm an overly entitled basement dweller and the game industry is shiatty because of me. Please punch me in my fat smug mouth."

You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.


Correct, it's not about piracy. It's about control.

In two years, when Maxis/EA release SimCity 2015 or 2016, they will shut down the servers that allow the 2013 version to run within 3 months of launching the new version, cause fark you, customers. If you want to play the shiny version of SimCity, you will have to spend another $60 every 2 years, as well as stock up on DLC, and you'll like it.

Piracy is a convenient scapegoat for executives trying to justify a bottom line. Forget that they ran $10 million over budget because they transitioned the game between 3 different studios, or that their latest attempt to create a money tree like WoW failed miserably.... it's all piracy's fault. If the board doesn't believe the exec, he can point to numerous studies from the BSA, MPAA and RIAA about the subject, then flip a report that shows how many thousands of copies of the game were downloaded by those fiendish pirates (a large portion of whom couldn't buy the game in their country if they wanted to).

Of course, pirates often download games, install then play them for a couple of days, then uninstall them and never revisit them. Some pirates never actually play the game.... and yes, some pirates play the game all the way through. Of those portion that do play the game like a customer.... most of those either 1) can't afford the game at the launch price or 2) can't buy the game because of region issues, or 3) can't process payment to get a physical, legit  copy of the game.

There is also the case of the unintentional pirate... people who by bootlegs, unaware it isn't a legit copy.

All told, a certain percentage of those pirates could afford to buy the game, and have it available for them to purchase, and certainly play the game fully. The thing is, these people will NEVER buy a game unless you find a way to engage them. They don't pirate games loaded with crazy DRM, true, but they also will NEVER BUY THOSE GAMES, either. There are far too many FREE, PIRATED games they can download to occupy their time.

Engaging pirates in a way that encourages them to buy games isn't easy... but DRM is about the most opposite way I can imagine to do it. So DRM does nothing to generate sales, and the publishing execs KNOW THIS.

What is more significant to them is generating cash flow, and they do that with DLC, advertising/sponsorship, and a product lifecycle that encourages loyal customers to continue spending money every year on new versions, regardless of how little work has actually been done to update the franchise. The latest trend in DRM is intended to shorten the life of a product with a swift ax chop - shutting it down so thoroughly that it cannot be revived by GOG or Abandonware sites... so effectively that used games are no longer an issue, and killing it before the price drops on a game that is a potential rival for sales of your LATEST games (to people who do not pirate).
 
2013-04-29 09:12:01 PM

LesserEvil: There is also the case of the unintentional pirate... people who b

uy bootlegs, unaware it isn't a legit copy.

FTFM, also to expand what I meant, in many countries, people buy games at small markets or even out of storefronts, unaware they are bootlegs. Very typical in Asia, and while I knew they were selling copies, many people who bought from these places didn't know.
 
2013-04-29 09:21:35 PM

LesserEvil: What is more significant to them is generating cash flow, and they do that with DLC, advertising/sponsorship, and a product lifecycle that encourages loyal customers to continue spending money every year on new versions, regardless of how little work has actually been done to update the franchise. The latest trend in DRM is intended to shorten the life of a product with a swift ax chop - shutting it down so thoroughly that it cannot be revived by GOG or Abandonware sites... so effectively that used games are no longer an issue, and killing it before the price drops on a game that is a potential rival for sales of your LATEST games (to people who do not pirate).


Nail on the head new friend. This is one of the reasons why dedicated servers are going the way of the dodo and matchmaking is the new trend. Publishers can control how long a game can be played online. They can kill the matching servers and cite 'cutting costs' and oh, by the way, 'Generic Brown-Gray Shooter 2014' was just released! Go check it out!
 
2013-04-29 10:19:12 PM
I won't pay retail for any game.  I'll wait until it is on sale on steam for 50-75% off.

If they're trying to give you 90% of the game for retail and dribble the remaining 10% out as DLC then I'll wait until it's all a package for 50-75% off.

If you don't have it on sale or don't have it on steam (Mass Effect 3), then I simply won't play it.
 
2013-04-29 10:24:03 PM

YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.


That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.
 
2013-04-29 10:30:50 PM

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.


That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.
 
2013-04-29 10:43:37 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.

That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.


Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter. Why do content providers now place a priority on locking down the usage of their content?  I'll give you a hint: it's to mitigate the built-in losses from _______.

Come on, I know you can do this.
 
2013-04-29 10:50:49 PM
From the screenshot I'm really not surprised by the piracy rate.

It looks like one of the thousands of recent indie games using 'retro' as an excuse to put no effort into graphics.

I understand that as a solo dev you can't create Crysis however the price should reflect that. At the moment Section 8: Prejudice is on sale on steam (at least in Australia) for $3.75. Not sure if it's a great game (I did enjoy the first Section 8 but didn't for reasons I don't remember I didn't play for very long) but then I know even less about Game Developer Tycoon and I don't believe that it is worth twice as much as Section 8: Prejudice.

It looks like an iPhone game and should be priced as such: $1.99
 
2013-04-29 10:52:11 PM

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.

That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.

Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter. Why do content providers now place a priority on locking down the usage of their content?  I'll give you a hint: it's to mitigate the built-in losses from _______.

Come on, I know you can do this.


That's their excuse to force it down the throats of paying customers, not the motivation.
 
2013-04-29 10:57:57 PM

I Like Bread: Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter.


No, he's describing the reasoning. It's not piracy. Piracy's got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. People who pirate software were most likely never going to buy it anyway, so you don't get to count that as a lost sale. I'm sorry your too addle-minded to understand that, but please, continue to support always-on DRM, on-disc DLC, the death of used game sales and a product that only works when the publishers tell you it will work.

/You aren't buying games/software anymore, you buy a 'license' that can be revoked whenever the content provider wants to.
 
2013-04-29 11:05:37 PM

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.

That was already answered. They can kill the used game market and completely lock down the lifespan of their game. The average consumer won't notice. They will buy the game during the supported time period, play it through and never revisit it. However, a more serious gamer may want to revisit their old favorites years later (I recently bought Populus 2 and Syndicate on GOG.com for this reason) only to discover that the always-on DRM server has been turned off, rendering the game useless. Then, if the franchise is still profitable, they will be forced to buy the latest edition of the game.

Just like the others, you're describing the mechanics without arriving at the heart of the matter. Why do content providers now place a priority on locking down the usage of their content?  I'll give you a hint: it's to mitigate the built-in losses from _______.

Come on, I know you can do this.


...Also. The biggest pirates I know are also the ones who have spent the most buying games, even paying hundreds of dollars to support games in development like MechWarrior Online and StarCitizen. They pirate games for the same reason that they buy games. The love games. They pirate  for various reasons, they aren't sure of the quality, it isn't available in our region, they just want to play it with friends at a LAN or they already spent too much on games this month and their significant others would murder them if they buy another one. Hell, I've got 2 DVDs full of old DOS games that I downloaded just to keep a copy of them, they are a part of history. The ones I actually play I've bought on GOG.com.

The pirates are in many cases their best customers. They are the collectors and obsessive fans.
 
2013-04-29 11:08:45 PM

I Like Bread: YodaBlues: You should read this and understand the actual goal of DRM. Hint: It's not to prevent piracy.

That was a well-worded argument that said nothing at all. It's basically the same approach as, "Guns don't kill people. They are only designed to fire a bullet at high velocity."

So... why do you think content providers want total control over the content they provide, even at the risk of inconveniencing the consumer? What might possibly be the intent there? Let's ponder that for a moment.


Nice of you to ignore my post.

It isn't about piracy.

Want some truth? Microsoft studied the situation with pirates on the original Xbox, they found that, on average, people who owned modded Xboxes (custom firmware) typically **owned** (as in purchased) +5 more games than those who did not mod their consoles. They also pirated many games, but they tended to buy the games they played through, and in effect, were better customers. What set them apart was their desire to have full control over their own machines... being able to launch games from the hard drive, access to homebrew apps like XBMC.

It hurt Microsoft's bottom line to ban customers from Xbox Live, but they did it to control the ecosystem.

The PS4 won't be backwards compatible. The PS3 removed backwards compatibility... even though newer versions of the console could play PS2 and PSX games just fine (hacked consoles, that is). Sony removed this because selling the same game twice (through PSN) is just easy money. The same pattern will now continue with the PS4.

Piracy on the PC is different in many ways, mainly because of the platform, but the chief concern is old games and used games. It's called market saturation. It would be nice to think consumer pressures would prevent this sort of thing, but companies like EA have tremendous momentum with franchises that have huge customer loyalty rates. Because of this, publishers like EA have figured out that by using "always-on DRM" they can essentially shut down a game. Want to play Madden 2010 with your buddies? Too bad... the servers are gone. Now, even better, we will do this to the single player games, and blame it on dirty pirates! SimCity's "social networking features" are tacked in, at best.... they were not critical to the single player game, as those parts of the game could have been easily simulated (and probably were, at one point); the servers were never there to add functionality to the user... they are simply there to act ass a giant ON/OFF switch EA can pull when they want to sell a new version of SimCity and get suckers, erm, loyal customers, to fork over another $60.

So... piracy is a red herring. It's been going on since the first personal computers were shipped out of garages in silicon valley... probably far worse in the 80s, but it hasn't stopped publishers like EA from growing into mega-corporations, and it hasn't stopped AAA titles from launches that gross BILLIONS in the first week. Developers who have been around know that PC game pirates are probably not lost sales, or if they are, it is such a small percentage, that their effect on sales is negligible (and sometimes offset by pirates who DO buy the game after playing it).

That's not to say piracy is right. Price and delivery of games through services like Steam make it unjustifiable for me, or even my 13 year old son, to pirate any games we really want. My whole immediate family have our own individual (and extensive) libraries. We won't be buying any games from EA.

If I thought Game Dev Tycoon was the sort of game I wanted to play, I'd get it. Their release of a "cracked version" to prod pirates wouldn't affect that, and this whole incident has only made me aware they were out there, so... publicity! Their retail game is DRM-free. It's a couple of indie developers, and kudos to them for thinking up a great way to generate publicity. The message might be a bit confusing, and lost in the over-analysis of their action, but at the end of the day, it will generate sales for them.

/Goes into deep thought on how to generate controversy on my own iOS/Android app, Virtual Cat Toys HD.
//Buy this app or I'll shoot this kitty?
 
2013-04-29 11:35:24 PM
Alright, went ahead and bought this thing. Haven't played a "Tycoon" style game in a while and found myself playing the demo a couple times. I give less attention to the Indie bundles I spontaneously grab at times.

Hope the passive aggressive whiners that made this can sleep soundly knowing that people will buy their game.
 
2013-04-29 11:48:03 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: That's their excuse to force it down the throats of paying customers, not the motivation.


You're confusing the companies at large (who are forced to grow in other areas or die from piracy) with the marketing departments being given the power to steer the company (who know how to exploit paying customers). For lack of a better analogy, think of the Joker's speech to Two-Face in TDK. The big studios unleashed a monster - but I know better than to blame the monster for doing what comes naturally.

YodaBlues: No, he's describing the reasoning. It's not piracy. Piracy's got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. People who pirate software were most likely never going to buy it anyway, so you don't get to count that as a lost sale. I'm sorry your too addle-minded to understand that, but please, continue to support always-on DRM, on-disc DLC, the death of used game sales and a product that only works when the publishers tell you it will work.


The person who thinks anyone who disagrees with him must be pro-DRM is calling me addle-minded. That is so precious. You've basically parroted every knee-jerk justification for piracy, and "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is not a rebuttal.

...
It's amazing how many people assume I'm against them, when in reality I'm just trying to help them not make the rest of us look stupid. I file them under "Not Helping".
 
2013-04-30 12:27:18 AM
Pirate logic:

"It's not a physical good, and I wasn't going to pay for it anyway, so it's okay if I don't pay for it at all."

By this logic, pirates think it's totally okay to sneak into a movie theater/live theatre performance without paying (especially because they apparently can't trust reviews of word of mouth to judge the quality of what they're going to see).

Pirate logic:

"I need to know if something's good before I pay for it, so I'm entitled to a free trial run."

By this logic, pirates think they should get a free ride on a hooker to see if they would enjoy it or not... or a free meal at a restaurant before they decide whether or not to eat there.

Pirate logic:

"I wasn't going to buy it anyway, so there's no real lost sales."

I, too, would not buy a product if I ALREADY OBTAINED IT FOR FREE.

It's also noteworthy that they're very cool with the term "pirate."  You know why?  Because the more apt moniker would be "thief."  "Pirate" at least sounds cool and daring.
 
2013-04-30 12:31:36 AM

lamecomedian: Pirate logic:

"I wasn't going to buy it anyway, so there's no real lost sales."

I, too, would not buy a product if I ALREADY OBTAINED IT FOR FREE.

It's also noteworthy that they're very cool with the term "pirate." You know why? Because the more apt moniker would be "thief." "Pirate" at least sounds cool and daring.


You really are a lame comedian.
 
2013-04-30 12:41:59 AM
You know who play games and don't have a lot of money, and a poorly developed sense of morals?

children.

You know. like 12 year olds.

We've already had several high profile incidents where children have ended up being sued over mp3s.

I say we make piracy a capitol crime. Punishable by death.

It will be fun to watch them justify killing a 10 year old for figuring out how to work Utorrent.
 
2013-04-30 01:30:26 AM

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: That's their excuse to force it down the throats of paying customers, not the motivation.

You're confusing the companies at large (who are forced to grow in other areas or die from piracy) with the marketing departments being given the power to steer the company (who know how to exploit paying customers). For lack of a better analogy, think of the Joker's speech to Two-Face in TDK. The big studios unleashed a monster - but I know better than to blame the monster for doing what comes naturally.


The marketing department is an unfortunate side effect of a company growing too large. It has nothing to do with piracy, except for the fact that the marketing department uses piracy as an excuse why their genius marketing strategies keep failing.

In the old days, before games were big business, there weren't enough profits to fund parasitic departments like marketing and HR. it was just the useful people like developers and designers. Gaming has since become a huge market and now support huge companies who keep these useless people employed.

The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.
 
2013-04-30 02:25:27 AM
I completely disagree with almost all DRM schemes. At the same time, trying to push piracy like it's a good thing is completely retarded. If you don't know why, you are mentally askew in both intelligence and morals in so many ways that there's nothing I could say that would ever change your mind.
 
2013-04-30 04:01:48 AM

ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.


Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.
 
2013-04-30 04:21:45 AM

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.

Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.


Okay, try this. has DRM decreased piracy in the slightest. DRM is getting more restrictive with every new release but piracy keeps growing. Some pirates are even motivated by the presence of DRM, either in the challenge of breaking it or the fact that the pirated version comes without the intrusive features added by the DRM. How many games have been released and not show up as a torrent?

Clearly if the goal of DRM is to reduce piracy it has failed. No responsible businessperson is going to keep throwing money into DRM with the goal of stopping piracy because anyone can see it doesn't work. This leave only two possibilities. Either the people running these game publishers are of sub-Bevets intelligence or their motive is not stopping piracy.
 
2013-04-30 04:42:29 AM

I Like Bread: ParanoidAgnostic: The same thing happened to movies. Movies were art, made by people who loved making movies, now they are just products, designed to extract the maximum profit. That had nothing to do with piracy either. Just art being ruined by the bottom line.

Your assertion might hold water if you could refer to an industry that doesn't have a corresponding counterfeit medium.
Games have warez.
Music had cassettes/MP3s.
Movies had VHS.

Normally I wouldn't make a causation fallacy but this is the accepted (misguided) reasoning of those who make DRM. If you want to spin some yarn about an ulterior motive, you need a smoking gun. Where's your Deep Throat in this vast conspiracy to screw paying customers for its own sake?

I'm ever more convinced that this "DRM isn't about piracy" line is just a bedtime story that basement-dwellers tell each other, so they can feel like they've outsmarted the establishment, and feel pity for the poor sheep who are still plugged into The Matrix. It's all quite pathological.


Piracy only became an issue for movie studios when DVDs showed up. In the days of VHS there wasn't really a huge home video market. Almost all of the profit was made in the theatrical release. Sure you could get a copy from someone who carried a camcorder into the cinema but that really couldn't compete
 
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