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(Time)   Businesses are learning that by downsizing the workforce they are, in effect, destroying their bottom line   (business.time.com) divider line 162
    More: Ironic, layoffs, MIT Sloan, Red Lobster, Domino's Pizza, morale, businesses  
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5981 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Apr 2013 at 8:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-29 01:29:53 PM

tdyak: Flint Ironstag: Gunther: DePaul:This is to be expected in today's workplace. What's troubling is the way these things are done. It's not "We don't feel like hiring anymore people" it's "You are all a bunch of leeches and you've been stealing from us!" At least I still like the people I see everyday. It's just that the mood has changed.

Yep, I look at how your entry-level white collar workers are treated these days and I give thanks I entered the labor market a decade ago. You can see this attitude in this very thread:

RabidJade: We've produced a work force in this country who thinks they deserve more than what they have now and blame whoever they are working for at that moment regardless of how nice they have it.

You have to be a special kind of corporate shill to look at the facts (that modern day employees work longer hours, are better educated, are more productive and yet still earn less (adjusting for inflation) and are treated worse (less benefits, more work) than their parent's generation were at the same job) and come to the conclusion that it HAS to be because they're all slackers and malcontents.

Or compare them with most other countries around the world. Here (UK) we get four weeks holiday a year minimum from day one, and everyone takes every day, and generally work 39 hours a week or maybe a bit over. Alan Sugar (who is the boss on The Apprentice UK, but has never gone bankrupt unlike Donald) says that at his company anyone staying at their desk even a minute after six PM would get strange looks, and the feeling would probably be that he can't be that good if he can't get the job done done in regular hours. That's probably a bit extreme, and there certainly are some people who work long hours, but generally people work the official hours and then leave. The "cut staff and get everyone left to take up the slack" attitude does happen here but again generally within regular hours.
We also have laws against unfair dismissal, free healthcare (so no worries ...


I read this whole post in a British accent while imagining you in a 3 piece suit holding an umbrella while typing it (Ala Patrick Macnee from the Avengers).  I have no idea why I did it, but it fit the whole post perfectly.


For that I knock you on the head with my umbrella while Purdy kicks you in the nuts.  Gambit then turns up after you're on the ground unconscious.

/Fun fact, Patrick Mcnee is still alive.
//Amazing but true fact, he owes my Dad six dollars. Can't remember what for but they slightly knew each other in Canada  just after the war and my father lent him six dollars..
///I also posted a Mcnee pic in the "Car found up a tree" thread earlier today, and it looks like it actually was obscure.
 
2013-04-29 02:30:42 PM
deadwildroses.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-29 03:50:59 PM
Girion47:
This. I can't remember the last time an actual American applied to be a Software Engineer at my company. I'd love to hire one just for the sake of diversity. They simply do not exist anymore (or are all working at Google and Apple...)

You probably underpay, most companies do.

Yeah, maybe he should ask why they're all working for Apple and Google. I'm guessing compensation and work environment play a big role.

The problem with that is that not every company is a billion dollar company that can offer a shiatton of benefits.

Smaller companies do suffer from that.

My father-in-law is that way.   He has a great company, that has an awesome reputation, but he has trouble hiring people with experience because he doesn't understand why people won't work for the wages he's offering that are about equal with what students are getting at their co-ops and he's only offering 3 weeks vacation a year and very few federal holidays.

He does cover all insurance premiums but I don't think that makes up for it.


Then maybe he should try hiring people who are trainable, and not just concentrate on the already trained. From your description he seems to have fallen into the trap of "The Purple Squirrel", a trap too many employers have succumbed to as the Great Recession wears on. They chase after people who are already working and already trained, seeking that perfect employee they think won't cost them anything.

What they fail to see is that this "Purple Squirrel" will cost them a lot more than they imagined, simply because they forget one thing - if this person jumped from where they were to work for you, then there's a better than good chance that they will jump somewhere else when someone offers them even more money and benefits, possibly in the middle of a project. They will ask for pay and benefits higher than what they are currently receiving (as they should), they will hold no loyalty to you or your company (as they shouldn't), and they will be constantly on the lookout, along with recruiters, for the Bigger Better Deal (because they can).

The lack of benefits he is able to offer will not matter to anyone looking to get their foot in the door, and your father in law will benefit from having employees who can do things the way he needs them done, and not the way the employee thinks they should be done (cuz I gots all dat 'sperience, nowmsayin'?).

There are probably plenty of good people he could hire... if he would get his head out and expand his vision.
 
2013-04-29 04:09:55 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Girion47: Yes please tell me how entitled I am when jobs in the 70's would allow a family of four to survive on one income with 2 cars, a house, a summer house on a lake and a boat could be had by someone without a college degree. I'm ready to feel guilty about wanting to be able to afford one mortgage without kids.

CSB Time:

While I was in college (mid 2000s), my course adviser recommended I study abroad. She said it would be a great experience and possibly open up career opportunities in other countries. The cost? $9000 on top of the $6000 in tuition and fees I was already paying. I asked her where the flying hell I was supposed to get the money for that. Her exact words were "Why don't you get a summer job?"
I politely declined, but probably could have driven my fist through her face if anger had outweighed absolute shock.
I worked every single semester of my college career, and it was never enough to do more than pay rent, utilities, and gorge on Mac n Cheese.
I've always wanted to know what was running through her head. Did she think there was a job I could get that paid $3000/month? Did the number attached not register with her as being high, despite more than doubling the cost of a semester?
It has to be some kind of generational gap. My FiL is the same way. Doesn't understand why I don't have a house, a new car, or provided him with grandchildren. He graduated debt free in 1976, paid for working summers in a warehouse. Paid off his $40K house before 1980 and then had two kids, all on one income. Thinks of my $40K in loans to pay for college as some kind of moral failing that I can make up for by working harder. He "did" it, why can't I?


My Dad is the same.

What is it with angry old white guys and not being able to relate to people?
 
2013-04-29 04:38:40 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Fire the experienced help, hire schlubs/Inidans/Messicans at 1/3 the cost.  Bottom line is pretty for 1 quarter. Get bonus, Quit. Bazinga!

Hate management.  No better than leeches in the IT worlld.


Yep. That or don't hire at all so the remaining workers are doing the jobs of two or three people. All the while hoarding the cash.
 
2013-04-29 04:39:29 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Girion47: Yes please tell me how entitled I am when jobs in the 70's would allow a family of four to survive on one income with 2 cars, a house, a summer house on a lake and a boat could be had by someone without a college degree. I'm ready to feel guilty about wanting to be able to afford one mortgage without kids.

CSB Time:

While I was in college (mid 2000s), my course adviser recommended I study abroad. She said it would be a great experience and possibly open up career opportunities in other countries. The cost? $9000 on top of the $6000 in tuition and fees I was already paying. I asked her where the flying hell I was supposed to get the money for that. Her exact words were "Why don't you get a summer job?"
I politely declined, but probably could have driven my fist through her face if anger had outweighed absolute shock.
I worked every single semester of my college career, and it was never enough to do more than pay rent, utilities, and gorge on Mac n Cheese.
I've always wanted to know what was running through her head. Did she think there was a job I could get that paid $3000/month? Did the number attached not register with her as being high, despite more than doubling the cost of a semester?
It has to be some kind of generational gap. My FiL is the same way. Doesn't understand why I don't have a house, a new car, or provided him with grandchildren. He graduated debt free in 1976, paid for working summers in a warehouse. Paid off his $40K house before 1980 and then had two kids, all on one income. Thinks of my $40K in loans to pay for college as some kind of moral failing that I can make up for by working harder. He "did" it, why can't I?


This reminds me of another thread where rich kids have much better test scores (no shiat).

I had a guidance counselor suggest that I go to the PA governor's summer school, even though it's free my parents would have to pay for transportation, a residence deposit, and I would have to take time off from my job.

I told her that my family needed me to work 40 hours during the summer so we could afford my Dad's medication and food she gave me a look like I had 2 heads.

/Guidance Counselors are useless
 
2013-04-29 06:28:15 PM

rewind2846: Girion47:
This. I can't remember the last time an actual American applied to be a Software Engineer at my company. I'd love to hire one just for the sake of diversity. They simply do not exist anymore (or are all working at Google and Apple...)

You probably underpay, most companies do.

Yeah, maybe he should ask why they're all working for Apple and Google. I'm guessing compensation and work environment play a big role.

The problem with that is that not every company is a billion dollar company that can offer a shiatton of benefits.

Smaller companies do suffer from that.

My father-in-law is that way.   He has a great company, that has an awesome reputation, but he has trouble hiring people with experience because he doesn't understand why people won't work for the wages he's offering that are about equal with what students are getting at their co-ops and he's only offering 3 weeks vacation a year and very few federal holidays.

He does cover all insurance premiums but I don't think that makes up for it.

Then maybe he should try hiring people who are trainable, and not just concentrate on the already trained. From your description he seems to have fallen into the trap of "The Purple Squirrel", a trap too many employers have succumbed to as the Great Recession wears on. They chase after people who are already working and already trained, seeking that perfect employee they think won't cost them anything.

What they fail to see is that this "Purple Squirrel" will cost them a lot more than they imagined, simply because they forget one thing - if this person jumped from where they were to work for you, then there's a better than good chance that they will jump somewhere else when someone offers them even more money and benefits, possibly in the middle of a project. They will ask for pay and benefits higher than what they are currently receiving (as they should), they will hold no loyalty to you or your company (as they shouldn't), and they will be constantly on the l ...


I've actually been getting him to do that.   It isn't that he listens to me, but I put the idea in my wife's head, and then she says something to him, and then a few months later he does it as if it's his own idea.   I feel like I'm helping the younger generation get hired via this method.  go me!
 
2013-04-29 08:06:51 PM

johnny_vegas: lilbjorn: Businesses are learning that by downsizing the workforce they are, in effect, destroying their bottom line

Wait.  What businesses are learning that?  None that I've seen.

well, with the exception of strip joints and fast food places, businesses are learning downsizing is bad....


Er, strip clubs that eschew downsizing end up with fat strippers and skinny profits.
 
2013-04-29 11:17:27 PM

Girion47: rewind2846: Girion47:
This. I can't remember the last time an actual American applied to be a Software Engineer at my company. I'd love to hire one just for the sake of diversity. They simply do not exist anymore (or are all working at Google and Apple...)

You probably underpay, most companies do.

Yeah, maybe he should ask why they're all working for Apple and Google. I'm guessing compensation and work environment play a big role.

The problem with that is that not every company is a billion dollar company that can offer a shiatton of benefits.

Smaller companies do suffer from that.

My father-in-law is that way.   He has a great company, that has an awesome reputation, but he has trouble hiring people with experience because he doesn't understand why people won't work for the wages he's offering that are about equal with what students are getting at their co-ops and he's only offering 3 weeks vacation a year and very few federal holidays.

He does cover all insurance premiums but I don't think that makes up for it.

Then maybe he should try hiring people who are trainable, and not just concentrate on the already trained. From your description he seems to have fallen into the trap of "The Purple Squirrel", a trap too many employers have succumbed to as the Great Recession wears on. They chase after people who are already working and already trained, seeking that perfect employee they think won't cost them anything.

What they fail to see is that this "Purple Squirrel" will cost them a lot more than they imagined, simply because they forget one thing - if this person jumped from where they were to work for you, then there's a better than good chance that they will jump somewhere else when someone offers them even more money and benefits, possibly in the middle of a project. They will ask for pay and benefits higher than what they are currently receiving (as they should), they will hold no loyalty to you or your company (as they shouldn't), and they will be constan ...


Is your wife my sister. I have to do the same thing to my Dad.

Why does it always have to be there idea.
 
2013-04-30 05:05:45 AM

shortymac: Sergeant Grumbles: Girion47: Yes please tell me how entitled I am when jobs in the 70's would allow a family of four to survive on one income with 2 cars, a house, a summer house on a lake and a boat could be had by someone without a college degree. I'm ready to feel guilty about wanting to be able to afford one mortgage without kids.

CSB Time:

While I was in college (mid 2000s), my course adviser recommended I study abroad. She said it would be a great experience and possibly open up career opportunities in other countries. The cost? $9000 on top of the $6000 in tuition and fees I was already paying. I asked her where the flying hell I was supposed to get the money for that. Her exact words were "Why don't you get a summer job?"
I politely declined, but probably could have driven my fist through her face if anger had outweighed absolute shock.
I worked every single semester of my college career, and it was never enough to do more than pay rent, utilities, and gorge on Mac n Cheese.
I've always wanted to know what was running through her head. Did she think there was a job I could get that paid $3000/month? Did the number attached not register with her as being high, despite more than doubling the cost of a semester?
It has to be some kind of generational gap. My FiL is the same way. Doesn't understand why I don't have a house, a new car, or provided him with grandchildren. He graduated debt free in 1976, paid for working summers in a warehouse. Paid off his $40K house before 1980 and then had two kids, all on one income. Thinks of my $40K in loans to pay for college as some kind of moral failing that I can make up for by working harder. He "did" it, why can't I?

My Dad is the same.

What is it with angry old white guys and not being able to relate to people?


Your time is coming, youngin...
 
2013-04-30 06:23:14 AM
They also treat their people like cr*p.  I worked at a company, (worked harder than I ever had, have 26 years expirence), had the CIO sneak around and peek over cube walls.  While he did this, his manager would make sexual jokes in meetings and once called the entire department f*****g incompetent.  One day I just had enough and quit.  This was about 6 weeks before a deadline that their biggest customer Int*l demanded we meet.

Last time I talked the people that stayed, (incompetent, only kidding), were working 12 hours a day and six days a week.  I was treated so bad, I recieved unemployment for quitting.

/Thinking about an EEOC complaint just to cost them money.
 
2013-04-30 08:26:44 AM

Girion47: I've actually been getting him to do that. It isn't that he listens to me, but I put the idea in my wife's head, and then she says something to him, and then a few months later he does it as if it's his own idea. I feel like I'm helping the younger generation get hired via this method. go me!


There's a reason I have you favorited.
 
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