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(AP)   US Army: "Congress, hey buddy, we're good on tanks, really, we have plenty. We'd rather use the money for other stuff we need." Congress: "You'll take these tanks and like it". Take a wild guess why?   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 153
    More: Dumbass, congresses, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, Citizens Against Government Waste, pork barrels, General Dynamics, Budget Control Act, risk averse, deficit hawk  
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7592 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Apr 2013 at 1:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-28 11:51:06 AM
Why are still having this debate? Why are their no adults who can shut this down? We have more tanks than we could ever possibly use. If they want to design a new one? Yeah, go for it. Current models, even with upgrades? I could you take you on a tour to sites with acres and acres of tanks that we could field with minor upgrades and fixes.

It's like that airplane graveyard in Arizona only smaller.
 
2013-04-28 12:14:14 PM
"The one area where we are supposed to spend taxpayer money is in defense of the country," said Jordan, whose district in the northwest part of the state includes the tank plant.

A)  The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence  and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

B) How is forcing the DoD to buy crap they don't want or need helping to defend the country?
 
2013-04-28 12:16:27 PM
Because billions of dollars in corporate welfare and wasteful spending is OK as long as it goes into the hands of well connected defense contractors in the districts of the Representatives?
 
2013-04-28 12:41:02 PM
So we can't stop buying tanks because then some congressman/senator's district/state would be out of jobs, huh? In other words the Republicans want the government to create jobs and to pick winners and losers?
 
2013-04-28 12:49:43 PM

verbal_jizm: So we can't stop buying tanks because then some congressman/senator's district/state would be out of jobs, huh? In other words the Republicans want the government to create jobs and to pick winners and losers?


It's not just the Republicans. It's a politician thing. The way to ensure re-election is to bring home the bacon, and job cuts is most assuredly not bringing home the bacon. So, if we need a few hundred more tanks to keep some people fed, what's a half-billion dollars more in fraud, waste and abuse compared to that?
 
2013-04-28 12:49:48 PM

NewportBarGuy: Why are their no adults who can shut this down?


There are, but they get kickbacks from the companies to keep the money flowing their way. Of course the people who could you know, actually initiate an investigation are the same people who would be investigated, so that'll never happen.

So let's talk about how Benghazi is a scandal and Osama Bin Laden bombed Boston.......

Jobs my ass

www.rottmair.de
 
2013-04-28 12:55:31 PM
Congress at work. Nothing to see here people. Move it along. This is all for your own good, and has probably nothing to do with campaign contributions, and if you think that, then you are all Commie Traitor Nogoodniks who probably voted for that Kenyan Usurper who TOTALLY stoleded the election, and most likely wash with French cheeses instead of old fashioned American soap. How can we fight terrorism if we don't have enough tanks? I mean, tanks are superior to APCs and I'm sure their gas mileage is even better too, right?  Tanks should be rolling constantly, instead of these little RC planes that the Liberal Elite would rather use, because when you want boots on the ground, you NEED tanks. Especially on the front lines, like we face today. Look at the enemies we have arrayed against us, they have how many tanks? We NEED tanks to fight insurgents and terrorists, because when they look down the barrel of those guns, they KNOW that they can't take us in fair fight. That backs them down entirely, and doesn't at all inspire them to hit us where we ain't looking, because that would be the coward's way, and the US doesn't fight cowards. We choose our enemies on the basis of their upstanding warrior spirit, and anyone who suggests otherwise MUST be some kind of Pinko Islamofascist who hates liberty and I, for one, welcome the opportunity to send tanks down their streets to remind them to stand up and fight like men. Against armor. Preferably in good light so that we can film it...
 
2013-04-28 01:00:07 PM
You laugh now, but the next time Germany invades France, those Tigers and Panzers won't stand a chance
 
2013-04-28 01:04:15 PM
If they're going to spend the money no matter what, then at least spend it on something that the Army needs. I'd love to see a close air support program like the A10 that was completely under the Army's control. Bring back the Army Air Corps and put A10s, Apaches and other ground support aircraft under their control and then you'll see some purpose-built aircraft instead of the swiss-army planes like the F35 that aren't particularly good at anything.
 
2013-04-28 01:11:34 PM
"The one area where we are supposed to spend taxpayer money is in defense of the country," said Jordan, whose district in the northwest part of the state includes the tank plant.

Everything wrong with America in one succinct sentence.
 
2013-04-28 01:14:35 PM

vartian: "The one area where we are supposed to spend taxpayer money is in defense of the country," said Jordan, whose district in the northwest part of the state includes the tank plant.

Everything wrong with America in one succinct sentence.


And even if that were the one area, they're doing it wrong.
 
2013-04-28 01:27:44 PM
for DHS. to put us into the camps, duh.
 
2013-04-28 01:29:09 PM

vartian: "The one area where we are supposed to spend taxpayer money is in defense of the country," said Jordan, whose district in the northwest part of the state includes the tank plant.

Everything wrong with America in one succinct sentence.


And the sad thing is a lot of people out there (including people I know) actually believe this.
 
2013-04-28 01:30:01 PM
i.imgur.comTHIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS AMERICA.
 
2013-04-28 01:33:57 PM
The Army could use them for target practice.
 
2013-04-28 01:35:47 PM
If we're going to have unnecessary tanks, can we at least have cool and awesome unnecessary tanks?

davidszondy.com
 
2013-04-28 01:37:34 PM
I've talked to family who are presently in the military, and they say that a lot of the higher ups are disgusted at the fact that while they want to find better use for the money spent on these things, DC continues to push them on them, all in the name of 'jobs'.

I understand how people would be affected if these plants were forced to stop producing these tanks (that we obviously don't need), but why not repurpose the factory to build something else that IS needed?  It's not like all of the factories that produced the war machine for World War 2 all of a sudden closed up shop and were mothballed once the war came to an end.  They were repurposed for civilian use and were the basis of this country's manufacturing juggernaut (which has since been moved offshore).
 
2013-04-28 01:38:22 PM
If Al Qaeda wants to win the war on terror they should announce that they are working on a Strategic Defense Initiative involving lasers in space that shoot down ballistic missiles.

/not enjoying this sequel as much as I liked part I in the late '80s
 
2013-04-28 01:39:35 PM
Wild guess. Tank manufacturer in his district?
 
2013-04-28 01:39:37 PM

NewportBarGuy: Why are still having this debate? Why are their no adults who can shut this down? We have more tanks than we could ever possibly use. If they want to design a new one? Yeah, go for it. Current models, even with upgrades? I could you take you on a tour to sites with acres and acres of tanks that we could field with minor upgrades and fixes.

It's like that airplane graveyard in Arizona only smaller.


DoD and Congress spread out the production of these weapons systems across many states and localities in order to garner support. The downside of that is that they become jobs programs and much tougher to kill, even when the need for them has passed. And that's not just limited to DoD, it's commonplace in all government spending.
 
2013-04-28 01:42:47 PM
You know, the Soviets used to do things like this. Build huge numbers of tanks, or planes, or guns, whatever, then warehouse them. When they became obsolete, they'd just build newer models of tanks, or planes, or guns, and leave the old ones right where they left them. People stayed employed, they could bring out all the tanks to parade around once a year, and oh yes, their economy eventually collapsed from so much pointless military spending.

Just so people could stay employed. Sounds like the US Representative is trying to emulate those Soviet politicians a bit too much.
 
2013-04-28 01:43:36 PM
If we don't keep building more tanks, the terrorists win.
 
2013-04-28 01:45:33 PM

Bendal: You know, the Soviets used to do things like this. Build huge numbers of tanks, or planes, or guns, whatever, then warehouse them. When they became obsolete, they'd just build newer models of tanks, or planes, or guns, and leave the old ones right where they left them. People stayed employed, they could bring out all the tanks to parade around once a year, and oh yes, their economy eventually collapsed from so much pointless military spending.

Just so people could stay employed. Sounds like the US Representative is trying to emulate those Soviet politicians a bit too much.


Apparently, someone gigged onto Reagan's plan to bankrupt the Soviet Union, and has finally figured out how to get the US Congress to try it here...
 
2013-04-28 01:46:58 PM
Here's an idea. How about instead of using those jobs to build tanks, we use them to build things we're currently asking China to build for us?
 
2013-04-28 01:51:05 PM
The most important thing we can do as a country is give the Military control over how their budget is spent.
 
2013-04-28 01:53:22 PM
Dwight Eisenhower was more Nostradamusier than Nostradamus.
 
2013-04-28 01:55:34 PM

AurizenDarkstar: I understand how people would be affected if these plants were forced to stop producing these tanks (that we obviously don't need), but why not repurpose the factory to build something else that IS needed?  It's not like all of the factories that produced the war machine for World War 2 all of a sudden closed up shop and were mothballed once the war came to an end.  They were repurposed for civilian use and were the basis of this country's manufacturing juggernaut (which has since been moved offshore).


That's what I can't understand about this mess.  Even if you take it as a given that military-funded production in these districts is a Good Thing and needs to be preserved... doesn't it still make more sense in, say, a five year budget, to take a year or so's worth of that money to repurpose and get four years of useful production, rather than five uninterrupted years' worth of uselessness?

I don't see why that would be so unpalatable, either practically or politically.  What they're doing now is the defense spending equivalent of buying food you're allergic to, because it was on sale.
 
2013-04-28 01:59:23 PM
It's like the way the Chinese govt. keeps building one "ghost city" after another, just to keep their housing bubble from popping.

www.impactlab.net
 
2013-04-28 02:00:24 PM
Because defense contract and manufacturing jobs.

You'd think we could put those people to work in things we NEED, but whatever.  This is easier!
 
2013-04-28 02:01:03 PM
Meanwhile our veterans are forced to wait for months to receive healthcare and often die.

Good to see how much these politicians support the troops.
 
2013-04-28 02:01:11 PM

TV's Vinnie: It's like the way the Chinese govt. keeps building one "ghost city" after another, just to keep their housing bubble from popping.

[www.impactlab.net image 500x331]


It's going to suck when that housing bubble pops.

I'm still convinced that it's going to happen sooner or later.
 
2013-04-28 02:02:44 PM
I'm confused.  I thought government spending couldn't create ANY jobs.
 
2013-04-28 02:02:57 PM
As someone said, band aids are not a budget policy.

If congress doesn't like the sequester then they should fix the problem. But certain people decided that the only important thing was to make Barack Obama a one term president, and having failed at that, they sulk and obstruct, and demand to be treated like victors after they have shiat the bed and then gotten beaten squarely.

Conservatism has rotted.
 
2013-04-28 02:03:05 PM

TV's Vinnie: It's like the way the Chinese govt. keeps building one "ghost city" after another, just to keep their housing bubble from popping.

[www.impactlab.net image 500x331]


Those places are amazing, Ive seen some specials on them.

Man that bubble is gona pop so hard.
 
2013-04-28 02:05:26 PM

vartian: "The one area where we are supposed to spend taxpayer money is in defense of the country," said Jordan, whose district in the northwest part of the state includes the tank plant.

Everything wrong with America in one succinct sentence.


Crumbling schools? F*CK YOU! MORE TANKS!

Grannies starving because there's no Meals on Wheels? F*CK YOU! MORE TANKS!

More tainted food getting into our stores? F*CK YOU! MORE TANKS!

Gangs run amok because there's not enough cops? F*CK YOU! MORE TANKS!

These assholes seem to think our tax money should ONLY go to feed the Military Industrial Complex, and to salaries for politicians like them.

Everyone else? F*CK YOU! SCRAMBLE IN THE DUMPSTERS FOR FOOD!

Oh, and MORE TANKS!
 
2013-04-28 02:05:59 PM

Raharu: Man that bubble is gonna pop so hard.


What's gonna happen then? Another world economic crash?
 
2013-04-28 02:07:57 PM
Or sell the extras to LEOs.
 
2013-04-28 02:08:18 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: Raharu: Man that bubble is gonna pop so hard.

What's gonna happen then? Another world economic crash?


Possibly...

Whatever happens it won't be good.
 
2013-04-28 02:08:52 PM
i1.cpcache.com
Hot like spent ammo rounds.
 
2013-04-28 02:09:45 PM

Semantic Warrior: [i1.cpcache.com image 460x460]
Hot like spent ammo rounds.


Attached to the front of a BB gun. Amirite?
 
2013-04-28 02:10:33 PM
If the military doesn't need them, then commercialize the damn things and sell them to the GP, similar to the Hummer.

All they need are turn signals and a horn to make them street legal, and some really kick-ass vanity plates.
 
2013-04-28 02:16:00 PM

TV's Vinnie: It's like the way the Chinese govt. keeps building one "ghost city" after another, just to keep their housing bubble from popping.

[www.impactlab.net image 500x331]


Eh, how is that supposed to work?

A bubble is a rapid and unsustainable rise in asset prices. How is creating more of this type of asset supposed to stop a bubble from popping? If they wanted to do that, they would stop people from building new houses.
 
2013-04-28 02:20:15 PM

Bad_Seed: TV's Vinnie: It's like the way the Chinese govt. keeps building one "ghost city" after another, just to keep their housing bubble from popping.

[www.impactlab.net image 500x331]

Eh, how is that supposed to work?

A bubble is a rapid and unsustainable rise in asset prices. How is creating more of this type of asset supposed to stop a bubble from popping? If they wanted to do that, they would stop people from building new houses.


The PRC wants to keep their construction industry busy. Doesn't matter if there's no one moving into these places (despite being the most populated country on Earth). It better for them to keep sh*tting out one city after another rather than have all those construction workers unemployed.

Which is the same rationale for this butthead's demands. He's saying "I don't care if everyone else is going hungry! I want more pork!"
 
2013-04-28 02:22:50 PM

powhound: If the military doesn't need them, then commercialize the damn things and sell them to the GP, similar to the Hummer.

All they need are turn signals and a horn to make them street legal, and some really kick-ass vanity plates.


i.crackedcdn.com
 
2013-04-28 02:23:31 PM

Raharu: TV's Vinnie: It's like the way the Chinese govt. keeps building one "ghost city" after another, just to keep their housing bubble from popping.

[www.impactlab.net image 500x331]

Those places are amazing, Ive seen some specials on them.

Man that bubble is gona pop so hard.


Which specials is it? I'd like to learn more about those ghost cities.
 
2013-04-28 02:25:32 PM

yyssyy: Raharu: TV's Vinnie: It's like the way the Chinese govt. keeps building one "ghost city" after another, just to keep their housing bubble from popping.

[www.impactlab.net image 500x331]

Those places are amazing, Ive seen some specials on them.

Man that bubble is gona pop so hard.
Which specials is it? I'd like to learn more about those ghost cities.


Al Jazeera did a story about them a while back:

www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0h7V3Twb-Qk&ei=VGl9Ucz1GaKK2wW8p4G4Dw& us g=AFQjCNHOedGA7u1VFMmDdPIVqs5PaQNk6g&bvm=bv.45645796,d.b2I

So did 60 Minutes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50142079n
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-28 02:28:00 PM
That's a pretty common story.  Defense contractors intentionally spread the construction of military equipment amount various states and districts to get political support.

There are lots of military bases the military doesn't need or want but can't close too.

Unlike regular pork, military pork can't be questioned or you are a hippy 'merka hater.
 
2013-04-28 02:28:26 PM
 
2013-04-28 02:30:18 PM
One point not mentioned yet is that big plants of this type can't just be turned on and off causally. If you want to be able to start producing tanks in quantity at some future date (say if there's a real war or something), you can't just put the people and equipment in mothballs to be pulled out at a moment's notice. The company couldn't afford to keep huge amounts of capital tied up in idol machines and the trained workers would leave to find new jobs. You need to keep it running at some rate to keep it alive.

Politicians suck and pork is pork, but it's not all simple evil.
 
2013-04-28 02:30:40 PM

powhound: If the military doesn't need them, then commercialize the damn things and sell them to the GP, similar to the Hummer.

All they need are turn signals and a horn to make them street legal, and some really kick-ass vanity plates.


Great.  Like the assholes on the highway who tailgate at 90 miles an hour need something that's actually capable of driving <i>over</i> other cars, instead of just wishing they could.
 
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