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(SFGate)   Are lesbians more accepted than gay men? Well, duh, which kind of porn would you rather watch?   (sfgate.com) divider line 35
    More: Interesting, persecution of homosexuals, lesbians, gays  
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5896 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2013 at 9:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-27 09:01:13 PM  
6 votes:
I'm all for equality, but that concept does not preclude the very real traits and stereotypes typically inherent to each sex.

And while you will always find a 15/15/5/1/whatever% of individuals in each sex that bucks the trend, there are generalizations that can be made about each.

Women are by and large the finer of the two sexes and can be seen as more sensual, more open to emotional exchange, more touchy feely and objectively considered by both sexes as the more beautiful.

Throughout our entire history the female body has always been placed on a bit higher pedestal by our species. Of course there are plenty of examples of admiration of the male body, but usually it seems framed in a more utilitarian and mechanical way. I think part of the homophobia in many men is that to consider a homosexual/bisexual lifestyle for many is to violate that masculine image that is so important to their self image. Where as for females it only further supports the feminine worship that we historically seem inclined to.

I would also pose with no supporting evidence that self avowed heterosexual women are far more likely to experiment with the same sex... and I'm also guessing a larger percentage of the female sex identify as bisexual.
2013-04-27 09:34:41 PM  
3 votes:
A patriarchal society places higher value on heterosexuality in men than it places on heterosexuality in women because women are less important than men.
2013-04-27 08:05:14 PM  
3 votes:
Comparing the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts is a fallacy since they're completely different organizations.

The Boy Scouts don't let lesbians be Den Mothers, but they let straight women.
2013-04-28 03:34:23 AM  
2 votes:

rynthetyn:  And what he says about lots of gay people trying to convince themselves they were bi before finally accepting themselves is true, as is the fact that lots of bisexuals disappear into straight relationships and then stay firmly locked in the closet.



Oh, that's what YOU think?  You're not just paraphrasing Dan Savage, you're agreeing with him here?

Look, here's some basic math.  It's really simple, but it's apparently beyond Dan Savage's capabilities, and sadly, maybe yours as well.   Let's say Jane is the textbook bisexual woman.  Jane is EXACTLY equally attracted to men and women.  So, theoretically, over the course of 10 lovers, we would expect five of Jane's lovers to be men and five of them to be women, right?  WRONG.

If you assume that roughly 10 percent of the population is gay, and if you ignore all other factors, then out of 10 lovers a bisexual woman would have, 9 of them would be men.  Basic probability.  There are other factors, sure, like that heterosexual men are more likely to hit on her than lesbians are, which would skew that number even higher.  Or, on the other hand, if she decides to "be a part of the lbgtq community," identifies publicly as bisexual, hangs out with gays, lesbians, and bisexuals, then the number might skew the other way.

But even so, the odds are better than 50-50 that any given bisexual in a long-term relationship will be with a partner of the opposite sex.  That isn't "selling out," that isn't "disappearing into straight relationships," that isn't "staying firmly locked in the closet," and it isn't some sort of evil conspiracy to rob the Big Gay Army of troops.  That's being in love and following the farking laws of probability.

And if you think that being in a happy, committed, long-term relationship with someone who just happens to have different plumbing is "disappearing into a straight relationship" or "staying firmly locked in the closet" then FARK YOU UP THE ASS with a flaming, radioactive chainsaw.   My life does not take second place to your politics.  It is not my job to refuse to be happy with someone of the opposite sex just so I can remain single to take on a same-sex partner who better suits YOUR agenda.

In fact, better idea, why don't you find your buddy Dan Savage and the two of you can use a double radioactive dildo together.
Just be sure to set it on fire before insertion, hypocrite.

/Oh, and since you are apparently dim, let me explain that last bit: see, you're a hypocrite because you're trying to tell me which sex I'm allowed to be in a relationship with.  Funny, that.  I thought that was exactly what we were supposed to be fighting AGAINST.
2013-04-27 11:17:57 PM  
2 votes:

Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.


You sound like a self-hating closeted homo.
2013-04-27 10:01:49 PM  
2 votes:

Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.


Complete opposite here. Love me teh gay male prons, but keep the yucky women away from my eyes!

/female woman of the lady type
//only like guys, the more guys the better
2013-04-27 09:48:19 PM  
2 votes:

MurphyMurphy: stereotypes


Everybody knows that women are shorter than men. This is an objective, quantifiable fact. Well, I mean, everybody knows that  on average, women are shorter than men. Because you could have a short guy and a tall woman, for example. As a rule, though, women are shorter than men, right?

Height is a wonderful attribute, as it follows a standard distribution. It's the classic bell curve. If you plot all humanity on a bell curve for height, you're going to get a peak at around 5'4". 95% of human beings are between 3'4" and 6'2".

When we break this down by gender, what do we see? Well, women average about 5'2", and 95% of women are between 3'4" and 5'9". Men average 5'6", and 95% of men are between 3'3" and 6'3". And whoa- suddenly you realize that most men and women are within a single standard deviation on height. Which is to say that while there might be a slight gender bias in terms of how tall someone might get, if you take people at random, you don't actually have a terribly high confidence that those two people are going to follow the trend.

And that's the problem with stereotypes. While something might be true for an  average person, the average person is a myth. There is no Mr. and Mrs. Average wandering up the byways of middle America. By making prior assumptions about what people are going to be like, solely based on gender (or race, or class, or whatever arbitrary grouping you apply), you're making an ass out of you and mption.
2013-04-27 09:32:39 PM  
2 votes:
In pop culture, lesbians have only sexuality and gay men have everything but sexuality. There's the "lesbian episode", but also the flamboyantly gay guy there from the start that's a humorous eunuch.

As to the article, no one is surprised when female athletes come out as gay. That's like a male interior decorator or figure skater coming out as gay.
2013-04-28 01:40:33 PM  
1 votes:

chopit: KrispyKritter: great to know so many Farkers live in a fantasy masturbatory world. go outside some time and meet the bulk of real life lesbians. they're more manly than most of you, they hate you at a glance and they'll gladly kick your balls up to your throat 'because most men are rapist scum'. tolerance might be asked for but it isn't necessarily given.

You've never met a lesbian.


You've never met  KrispyKritter:   He's one of our special posters.  We try not to say anything that might upset him.
2013-04-28 08:54:06 AM  
1 votes:
Newsflash: A world run predominantly by heterosexual men tends to be more accepting of things that heterosexual men like and less accepting of things heterosexual men don't like.
2013-04-28 01:59:36 AM  
1 votes:

lohphat: Paging rugbyjock to the thread. Hot, sweaty rugbyjock.


dl.dropboxusercontent.com
2013-04-28 01:47:17 AM  
1 votes:

laid back w/bud light: I've lived in Provincetown, Ma which is like gay disneyland for over 40 years on and off, family came from there.   I don't care if it's man on man or girl on girl but lesbians in porn are not the norm in real life.  Most of them would look like they'd be more likely to chop down a tree with an axe than what you see in porn.  Most lesbians have more male traits, like how they act, and most male homosexuals are more effeminate than you would expect a man to act.   I don't care what they do with each other, and my 11 yr. old daughter is ok with it since she spends a lot of time there.   Basically I look at being gay as a genetic mistake that I ignore .    I will say that lesbians in p-town are more aggressive towards straight people than they were in the past.   Like yelling derogetary things at me for no reason just passing them on my way through town unprovoked.



Something I've noticed in Fark threads, and I imagine it applies to the world at large, is that there seems to be a high correlation between being misogynistic and homophobic.  I use  laid back w/bud light's post here as an example that seems to illustrate this because I hadn't seen him say anything homophobic before this thread, but I had marked him down for misogyny on two separate occasions.  And here, as fits my little theory, we now see he's homophobic as well.

Of course, one explanation is just that bigotry is the fundamental characteristic underlying all the different forms (misogyny, racism, homophobia, et cetera), but I speculate that that alone is not the whole story.  My hypothesis is that homophobia and misogyny are correlated with each other moreso than either is with other types of prejudice (such as racism) because both depend on certain narrow-minded ideas of "what it means to be a woman" (and "what it means to be a man").

I suspect they are tied to  hegemonic masculinity, but I cannot be certain.   If this hasn't be studied scientifically yet, I really hope it will be.
2013-04-28 01:23:50 AM  
1 votes:

silvervial: rynthetyn: TuteTibiImperes: rynthetyn: On a less than serious note, go read all of the batshiat insane fangirly comments on the picture that John Barrowman instagrammed today of him and Nathan Fillion and get back to me about society.

The reality is that when people talk about "society", what they really mean is, "what straight males think." Women aren't even part of the discussion.

You have a point.  As long as the vast majority of executive positions in media outlets are held by white heterosexual males, the output of those outlets is going to be normalized to a degree to the views of most white heterosexual males.

When some Yaoi fans enter positions of power, maybe we'll see a push to normalize that type of behavior, but for now pop culture is predominantly determined, whether consciously or not, by the perceptions, perversions, and prejudices of a group of predominantly straight white guys.

You'd think that network heads and studio execs would look at the numbers and realize that even though the LGBTQ contingent isn't that large of a demographic, straight females are eating that shiat up. A huge portion of the Glee audience is watching for Kurt and Blaine, and then you've got your shippers working overtime watching Supernatural, tumblr practically broke when The Doctor kissed Rory (even though it wasn't remotely a romantic thing), and well, the USA Network's bread and butter is the bromance. You'd think with all that they'd get the hint.

All that, AND the slashfic fandoms that have sprung up around practically every show and movie - even bands. Pretty much exclusively straight females write and read it, though I have seen some male readers, which is fabulous, in more than one way :D


True. After all, the granddaddy of all slashfic, and the one that gave slash it's name was Kirk/Spock, and that was entirely the invention of straight women. Also, I'm pretty sure that Tumblr and Twitter would both break from all of the squeeing if various members of 1 Direction came out and announced that they dating each other.
2013-04-28 01:14:25 AM  
1 votes:

White_Scarf_Syndrome: bobtheallmighty: People will stop being "gay in your face" at about the same time straight people stop being "straight" in your face.

Really? I have not seen a "straight" bumper sticker.  Yet.  Like I said. Who effing cares. No matter how much I like to talk about it, no one gives a shiat what I do in the bedroom.  I suppose there is a silent majority and there is a very loud bunch of advocates, just like anything else.


Really?  You've never seen a "baby on board" sign on a car, or those little stick figure symbols on the windscreen depicting a man, a woman, and their children?  You've never seen a wedding ring in your life?  You've never heard a man refer to "my wife" or a woman refer to "my husband"?  You've never seen a man and a woman kiss, or even just hold hands, in public?  You've never seen someone put a picture of their spouse on their desk at work?

Are you lying or are you just a complete idiot?
2013-04-28 01:10:09 AM  
1 votes:
There's a phenomenon of "situational homosexuality". For example, all-male boarding schools. The preference might be for females, but given the lack of them, the boys developed homosexual relationships. The impulse for sexuality exceeded the threshold of orientation.

Oops, dropped a thought here: after graduation, the boys in homosexual relationships severed their ties and picked up heterosexual relationships.

Anyway, here's a wiki article on it:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situa tional_sexual_behavior
2013-04-28 12:57:16 AM  
1 votes:
Lets see two women lezzing out is just a guy away from being every strait guys fantasy.

A couple of gay guys doing it is just a big headed banjo boy away from being every strait guys worst nightmare.
2013-04-28 12:01:29 AM  
1 votes:

ultraholland: thread needs more pics of Lebanese chicks


www.explosm.net
Now I'm hungry.
2013-04-27 11:39:28 PM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: A patriarchal society places higher value on heterosexuality in men than it places on heterosexuality in women because women are less important than men.


In a word,  hegemonic masculinity.  Well, ok, two words.
2013-04-27 10:53:55 PM  
1 votes:
personally, seeing two guys who are genuinely in love making out is sooo effing adorable :3

I think straight guys are afraid of gay guys because the straighties think they gay guys want to have sex with them and they're afraid they'll like it. I don't believe anyone is completely 100% straight or completely 100% gay anyway.
2013-04-27 10:35:32 PM  
1 votes:
Duh. Everyone knows lesbians aren't threatening because all the hot ones are one good deep dicking from a real man to go straight.
2013-04-27 10:32:32 PM  
1 votes:
It's not that lesbians are more accepted by hetero men as compared to the frothing fear of gay men, but rather hetero men just don't take lesbianism seriously.

Girl-girl porn is a billion-dollar industry, with hetero men both creator and consumer, and men could care less if actors really are lesbian or if they're just faking like all women are expected to do, and do do, for men.  When the lesbo-porn fascination is combined with the fact that a biologically-born penis is usually nowhere near genuine lesbian action, hetero men spend very little time fretting over any perceived sexual threat to their manhood.  And where there is no serious sexual threat to hetero manhood, there is no reason to take it seriously at all, with men seeing lesbianism as an entertaining game staged merely for their amusement.
2013-04-27 10:26:58 PM  
1 votes:

MurphyMurphy: Throughout our entire history the female body has always been placed on a bit higher pedestal by our species. Of course there are plenty of examples of admiration of the male body, but usually it seems framed in a more utilitarian and mechanical way.


You have a point, but this is kind of wrong. Societies throughout history have celebrated male beauty as much as female. Phallic fertility Gods were as common in prehistoric societies as busty fertility Goddesses, though the Venus figurines are more famous. The Greeks and Romans both glorified the male body in sculpture. I think the homophobia issue is less about men sacrificing their masculine image, as about men submitting to other men. (Though it's a matter of cultural taboo more than anything.) To be the submissive partner in gay sex is to be "less of a man," because man is supposed to be supreme.
2013-04-27 10:24:26 PM  
1 votes:
Im just not that into the girl on girl thing. Sure its entertaining for a few minutes, but the novelty quickly wears off.
2013-04-27 10:16:26 PM  
1 votes:

penthesilea: What kind of porn would you rather watch?

Gay porn, silly.

/female



img.photobucket.com
2013-04-27 10:12:50 PM  
1 votes:
So, straight guys like watching women go at it, and straight women like watching guys go at it. I think we've honed in on some kind of eternal truth here, folks. Good job!

/j/k
//kinda expected
2013-04-27 10:12:10 PM  
1 votes:
Bah. Cowards all. We are who we are, even if we're afraid of who we are. I look forward to a time when sexuality is irrelevant and not damning.

People can be such sick f*cks, whether gay or straight--or black or white or any other color, creed or whatever. In my perfect world, folks would all simply embrace that we are all LIVING (a marvel in itself) and wish to continue doing so. But I don't imagine I will ever see that world. I "has a sad" because of that.

Move along, nothing to see here...Get off the corner Johnny!
2013-04-27 10:06:39 PM  
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: penthesilea: What kind of porn would you rather watch?

Gay porn, silly.

/female

you like watching two dudes do it?

ewwww


To you. To me *hummina, hummina*
2013-04-27 10:03:24 PM  
1 votes:

TomD9938: Straight men feel that gay men have abandoned the brotherhood and that impedes acceptance.


Sure, but the truth of the matter is that gay dudes are helping us out because they're not competing with us anymore.
2013-04-27 09:50:33 PM  
1 votes:

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.

I am taking your bait as a straight male.

I said it before and I will say it again.  Anal sex is awesome.  Get someone you trust and go slow.  I've never received.

Do lesbians have anal sex?  Wait, I'm an idiot.  Of course.

Having read the article I can only say.  WE DON'T CARE.  Stop being gay in my face, just shut up, jesus. Good for you, you're persecuted.  Peel off that equal sign bumper sticker, no one gives a fark and stop paying Jesus freaks attention.  Blargh.

/analrapest at your service.


People will stop being "gay in your face" at about the same time straight people stop being "straight" in your face.
2013-04-27 09:38:37 PM  
1 votes:
Lesbians are great.  Even if you are not attracted to them you can girl-watch with them.  They are like the perfect female in that they can share interests with you.
2013-04-27 09:32:22 PM  
1 votes:

MurphyMurphy: I'm all for equality, but that concept does not preclude the very real traits and stereotypes typically inherent to each sex.

And while you will always find a 15/15/5/1/whatever% of individuals in each sex that bucks the trend, there are generalizations that can be made about each.

Women are by and large the finer of the two sexes and can be seen as more sensual, more open to emotional exchange, more touchy feely and objectively considered by both sexes as the more beautiful.

Throughout our entire history the female body has always been placed on a bit higher pedestal by our species.


The Greeks might disagree with you. And while you may disagree with them on that point, they kind of are responsible for the majority of Western Civilization. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
2013-04-27 09:27:03 PM  
1 votes:
Paging rugbyjock to the thread. Hot, sweaty rugbyjock.
2013-04-27 09:26:41 PM  
1 votes:
What kind of porn would you rather watch?

Gay porn, silly.

/female
2013-04-27 09:24:39 PM  
1 votes:
Which kind would I want to watch...?
2013-04-27 08:31:27 PM  
1 votes:
I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.
 
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