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(SFGate)   Are lesbians more accepted than gay men? Well, duh, which kind of porn would you rather watch?   (sfgate.com) divider line 289
    More: Interesting, persecution of homosexuals, lesbians, gays  
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5886 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2013 at 9:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-27 10:12:50 PM
So, straight guys like watching women go at it, and straight women like watching guys go at it. I think we've honed in on some kind of eternal truth here, folks. Good job!

/j/k
//kinda expected
 
2013-04-27 10:13:24 PM

t3knomanser: Everybody knows that women are shorter than men. This is an objective, quantifiable fact. Well, I mean, everybody knows that on average, women are shorter than men. Because you could have a short guy and a tall woman, for example. As a rule, though, women are shorter than men, right?

Height is a wonderful attribute, as it follows a standard distribution. It's the classic bell curve. If you plot all humanity on a bell curve for height, you're going to get a peak at around 5'4". 95% of human beings are between 3'4" and 6'2".

When we break this down by gender, what do we see? Well, women average about 5'2", and 95% of women are between 3'4" and 5'9". Men average 5'6", and 95% of men are between 3'3" and 6'3". And whoa- suddenly you realize that most men and women are within a single standard deviation on height. Which is to say that while there might be a slight gender bias in terms of how tall someone might get, if you take people at random, you don't actually have a terribly high confidence that those two people are going to follow the trend.

And that's the problem with stereotypes. While something might be true for an average person, the average person is a myth. There is no Mr. and Mrs. Average wandering up the byways of middle America. By making prior assumptions about what people are going to be like, solely based on gender (or race, or class, or whatever arbitrary grouping you apply), you're making an ass out of you and mption.


But you show the sterotype can hold true with your own stats. Just because you can increase your sample size to include everyone and show that technically across all of the species we are withing a negligible average difference, I think you find when you dig down to racial cross sections the data continues to support the stereotype no matter how small the deviation.

The average person is a myth? Yes, until he isn't. Sure, no family has 2.5 kids, but that doesn't mean the vast majority of them with children don't have 2 or 3.

Every couple I know, the husband is the taller. In fact as I look around my office now, there isn't one man shorter than any other woman in this building with maybe one exception (and I'm not about to go ask them to stand back to back).

A tall woman was slightly less rare when I was in the military, but again the stereotype you use as an example held true. These are isolated observations but valid observations none the less.

Now, either my observations are of a rare crosssection of society lacking any sort of diversity (falsely supporting the stereotype), my observable world is in itself a statistical anomaly or you just pointed out why there are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics.
 
2013-04-27 10:15:28 PM

silvervial: So, straight guys like watching women go at it, and straight women like watching guys go at it. I think we've honed in on some kind of eternal truth here, folks. Good job!

/j/k
//kinda expected


I guess that's sorta true and since I'm bi I like both ; )
 
2013-04-27 10:16:26 PM

penthesilea: What kind of porn would you rather watch?

Gay porn, silly.

/female



img.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-27 10:16:49 PM

MurphyMurphy: sterotype


Obviously, you're on the shorter end of the norm, because that sound you just heard was the point flying waaaaaay over your head.
 
2013-04-27 10:18:43 PM

t3knomanser: MurphyMurphy: sterotype

Obviously, you're on the shorter end of the norm, because that sound you just heard was the point flying waaaaaay over your head.


What was your point? I for the life of me couldn't figure it out, something about men and women not actually having real height differences (dimorphisms)?
 
2013-04-27 10:19:03 PM
www.dmvfollowers.com

/loves lesbians
 
2013-04-27 10:19:49 PM
Speaking as someone who hangs out on tumblr and AO3.. in any fangirl driven fandom, you will find a LOT of male/male relationships.

I'm just saying.

/I like FrostIron, ShieldHusbands, and Science Boyfriends
//and Destiel, naturally
 
2013-04-27 10:21:12 PM

Paka Ono: [www.dmvfollowers.com image 480x600]

/loves lesbians


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoDpghAaXT4

/titty balls
 
2013-04-27 10:21:16 PM

AcesFull: propasaurus: Shemale porn, of course


  It takes balls to be a transvestite...


No. You mean transsexual.

You on a Friday night wearing a dress for laughs is transvestism.

The mooore you knoooow!!
 
2013-04-27 10:21:47 PM
Well, that's a silly question, sweet cheeks....
 
2013-04-27 10:24:26 PM
Im just not that into the girl on girl thing. Sure its entertaining for a few minutes, but the novelty quickly wears off.
 
2013-04-27 10:25:22 PM
great to know so many Farkers live in a fantasy masturbatory world. go outside some time and meet the bulk of real life lesbians. they're more manly than most of you, they hate you at a glance and they'll gladly kick your balls up to your throat 'because most men are rapist scum'. tolerance might be asked for but it isn't necessarily given.
 
2013-04-27 10:26:58 PM

MurphyMurphy: Throughout our entire history the female body has always been placed on a bit higher pedestal by our species. Of course there are plenty of examples of admiration of the male body, but usually it seems framed in a more utilitarian and mechanical way.


You have a point, but this is kind of wrong. Societies throughout history have celebrated male beauty as much as female. Phallic fertility Gods were as common in prehistoric societies as busty fertility Goddesses, though the Venus figurines are more famous. The Greeks and Romans both glorified the male body in sculpture. I think the homophobia issue is less about men sacrificing their masculine image, as about men submitting to other men. (Though it's a matter of cultural taboo more than anything.) To be the submissive partner in gay sex is to be "less of a man," because man is supposed to be supreme.
 
2013-04-27 10:28:52 PM
Lesbians are just kind of cute.  Its hard to get upset about them.  Every chick is a bit lesbo, so its not like the lesbians are all that different from other women.  Plus its not like they can have real sex since neither has a penis.  Gay guys on the other hand are just disgusting.  Before you go getting all crazy calling me a homophobe let me say that I have no problem with them doing whatever they want.  I even support their having the choice to marry.  I just find the idea of it repulsive and would rather not see or even think of it.
 
2013-04-27 10:31:07 PM
thread needs more pics of Lebanese chicks
 
2013-04-27 10:31:17 PM

KrispyKritter: great to know so many Farkers live in a fantasy masturbatory world. go outside some time and meet the bulk of real life lesbians. they're more manly than most of you, they hate you at a glance and they'll gladly kick your balls up to your throat 'because most men are rapist scum'. tolerance might be asked for but it isn't necessarily given.


Wow, talk about living in a fantasy world.
 
2013-04-27 10:31:19 PM

neuroflare: There was a lesbian couple that lived in the apartment above me for about a year. They never stopped fighting, throughout the night and day, just screaming near constantly. They were evicted after one of the stabbed the other. Since we could hear most everything they said and did, we heard the stabbing.

/neighbors across the hallway got busted with a lot of coke
//good times


You sound like you live in NYC.
 
2013-04-27 10:31:25 PM
I'm reminded of my favorite Youtube poop.

fark you, I'm not gay, I just like gay sex!
 
2013-04-27 10:32:32 PM
It's not that lesbians are more accepted by hetero men as compared to the frothing fear of gay men, but rather hetero men just don't take lesbianism seriously.

Girl-girl porn is a billion-dollar industry, with hetero men both creator and consumer, and men could care less if actors really are lesbian or if they're just faking like all women are expected to do, and do do, for men.  When the lesbo-porn fascination is combined with the fact that a biologically-born penis is usually nowhere near genuine lesbian action, hetero men spend very little time fretting over any perceived sexual threat to their manhood.  And where there is no serious sexual threat to hetero manhood, there is no reason to take it seriously at all, with men seeing lesbianism as an entertaining game staged merely for their amusement.
 
2013-04-27 10:32:34 PM
Porn sites that only have 5-6 categories, guaranteed that one of them is "Lesbian".  "Teen", "Mature", and "Lesbian" are all porn defaults.  Very rarely is "2 Dudes" a category on mainstream porn sites.
 
2013-04-27 10:33:11 PM

TheJoe03: TomD9938: Straight men feel that gay men have abandoned the brotherhood and that impedes acceptance.

Sure, but the truth of the matter is that gay dudes are helping us out because they're not competing with us anymore.


This.

I have never understood the antipathy of straight men toward gay men.

The dudes tend to have a perspective that I know I lack and they won't steal my woman. Similarly I can vet someone they're after and have absolutely no temptation to steal their man. You're each other's perfect wingmen on a night out.

I find lesbians to be annoying, typically speaking, especially the younger ones who seem to be on a man-hating jag more often than not. I am not oppressing you, I am certainly not apologizing for having a penis, and my buying you and your partner drinks is what friendly people do, not a seduction attempt; get the fark over yourselves.

As for porn - duh, the lesbian kind please. But in real life I'd much rather hang out with the gay dudes.
 
2013-04-27 10:33:30 PM

Ima4nic8or: Lesbians are just kind of cute.  Its hard to get upset about them.  Every chick is a bit lesbo, so its not like the lesbians are all that different from other women.  Plus its not like they can have real sex since neither has a penis.  Gay guys on the other hand are just disgusting.  Before you go getting all crazy calling me a homophobe let me say that I have no problem with them doing whatever they want.  I even support their having the choice to marry.  I just find the idea of it repulsive and would rather not see or even think of it.


Now what in the hell do you think is "real sex"?

Because coming at the same time is the ultimate goal.  And that is very much attained without a penis.

I'm not sure if I took some bait here, but sex and work are the only things I care about.  So, there.
 
2013-04-27 10:35:14 PM
All sex is acceptable except with children and non-consensual farm animals.
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-27 10:35:16 PM

halB: neuroflare: There was a lesbian couple that lived in the apartment above me for about a year. They never stopped fighting, throughout the night and day, just screaming near constantly. They were evicted after one of the stabbed the other. Since we could hear most everything they said and did, we heard the stabbing.

/neighbors across the hallway got busted with a lot of coke
//good times

You sound like you live in NYC.


Nope, Tempe!
 
2013-04-27 10:35:32 PM
Duh. Everyone knows lesbians aren't threatening because all the hot ones are one good deep dicking from a real man to go straight.
 
2013-04-27 10:37:04 PM

Dahnkster: All sex is acceptable except with children and non-consensual farm animals.
[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x399]


What about consensual farm animals?
 
2013-04-27 10:37:39 PM
I can tell you why some men like lesbian porn: No cocks.

It's really that. Some men are so afraid to see another penis they can't even go into a locker room. Meanwhile I appreciate the application of a big hard cock in pounding pussy in the porn I watch.

i.qkme.me
 
2013-04-27 10:37:49 PM
With regards to violence/bullying, it's not surprising that gay men face more than lesbians, at least in public perception.  Attention is naturally drawn more towards physical violence and bullying, men tend to be more prone to physical aggression, and most men have it drilled into their heads from a young age that it's wrong to hit or threaten a woman ever under any circumstances.

In terms of public perception overall, most men probably have the most of their 'lesbian' exposure through porn, where most of the women involved in lesbian scenes also do straight scenes, so the implication becomes that lesbians only get it on with other girls in the absence of a man to really please them, or in order to please a man through the spectacle.

Plus, men are in the executive positions when it comes to most media outlets, and men like naked women regardless of what they're doing, I think this sums it up well.
 
2013-04-27 10:38:14 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: TheJoe03: TomD9938: Straight men feel that gay men have abandoned the brotherhood and that impedes acceptance.

Sure, but the truth of the matter is that gay dudes are helping us out because they're not competing with us anymore.

This.

I have never understood the antipathy of straight men toward gay men.

The dudes tend to have a perspective that I know I lack and they won't steal my woman. Similarly I can vet someone they're after and have absolutely no temptation to steal their man. You're each other's perfect wingmen on a night out.

I find lesbians to be annoying, typically speaking, especially the younger ones who seem to be on a man-hating jag more often than not. I am not oppressing you, I am certainly not apologizing for having a penis, and my buying you and your partner drinks is what friendly people do, not a seduction attempt; get the fark over yourselves.

As for porn - duh, the lesbian kind please. But in real life I'd much rather hang out with the gay dudes.


Aww, you're adorable. Isn't it past your bedtime? We wouldn't want you to get in trouble with your mommy and daddy for staying up when you're supposed to be fast asleep.
 
2013-04-27 10:39:23 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: AcesFull: propasaurus: Shemale porn, of course


  It takes balls to be a transvestite...

No. You mean transsexual.

You on a Friday night wearing a dress for laughs is transvestism.

The mooore you knoooow!!


  well...and just my opinion..But I'm pretty sure you're gonna lose the balls in a transsexual procedure...And I would think,if you're gonna practice "transvestism" and wear a dress on Friday night.."for laughs"..again,like I said..it takes balls.
 
2013-04-27 10:40:19 PM
blu.stb.s-msn.com
You see, there's really no difference. If I surprise-kissed Scarlett Johansson, she'd react in the same way.

/DNRTFA
 
2013-04-27 10:41:22 PM
Considering the number of fujoshi out there, and the popularity of yaoi shipping not just in anime fandom but everywhere... I know MY preferences, but I sure wouldn't place bets on what's more popular. Kyoani's recent announcement of their new anime kinda reinforces this:

ogmansblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-27 10:42:02 PM

bobtheallmighty: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.

I am taking your bait as a straight male.

I said it before and I will say it again.  Anal sex is awesome.  Get someone you trust and go slow.  I've never received.

Do lesbians have anal sex?  Wait, I'm an idiot.  Of course.

Having read the article I can only say.  WE DON'T CARE.  Stop being gay in my face, just shut up, jesus. Good for you, you're persecuted.  Peel off that equal sign bumper sticker, no one gives a fark and stop paying Jesus freaks attention.  Blargh.

/analrapest at your service.

People will stop being "gay in your face" at about the same time straight people stop being "straight" in your face.


Really? I have not seen a "straight" bumper sticker.  Yet.  Like I said. Who effing cares. No matter how much I like to talk about it, no one gives a shiat what I do in the bedroom.  I suppose there is a silent majority and there is a very loud bunch of advocates, just like anything else.
 
2013-04-27 10:42:19 PM

Ima4nic8or: Lesbians are just kind of cute.  Its hard to get upset about them.  Every chick is a bit lesbo, so its not like the lesbians are all that different from other women.  Plus its not like they can have real sex since neither has a penis.  Gay guys on the other hand are just disgusting.  Before you go getting all crazy calling me a homophobe let me say that I have no problem with them doing whatever they want.  I even support their having the choice to marry.  I just find the idea of it repulsive and would rather not see or even think of it.


I'm sure many gay people feel the same way about straight people.

In my non professional opinion I think the main problem is with parents. To many parents respond to their child's first gay experiments with h fear that their child is "broken" and must be "fixed" despite most studies showing that its pretty normal even for straight kids to give it a try.

Again, Its again just my opinion that negative pressure aserted at a young age when dealing with sexual issues is one of the main problems...
 
2013-04-27 10:42:38 PM
Rynthetyn
Aww, you're adorable. Isn't it past your bedtime? We wouldn't want you to get in trouble with your mommy and daddy for staying up when you're supposed to be fast asleep.

I wasn't trolling, but thanks for leaping into my net?
 
2013-04-27 10:44:47 PM
JasonOfOrillia:
What about consensual farm animals?


Now yer' talkin'.
farm2.staticflickr.com
Find us some coffee enema-giving lesbian sisterwives and we got the makings for a religious experience.
 
2013-04-27 10:47:19 PM

NobleHam: MurphyMurphy: Throughout our entire history the female body has always been placed on a bit higher pedestal by our species. Of course there are plenty of examples of admiration of the male body, but usually it seems framed in a more utilitarian and mechanical way.

You have a point, but this is kind of wrong. Societies throughout history have celebrated male beauty as much as female. Phallic fertility Gods were as common in prehistoric societies as busty fertility Goddesses, though the Venus figurines are more famous. The Greeks and Romans both glorified the male body in sculpture. I think the homophobia issue is less about men sacrificing their masculine image, as about men submitting to other men. (Though it's a matter of cultural taboo more than anything.) To be the submissive partner in gay sex is to be "less of a man," because man is supposed to be supreme.


I was just looking for supposition to support what many of us would assume to be true; that is answering the question of of whether we perceive lesbians in a way that is more acceptable than gay men (we do) and why that might be.

When we discuss perceptions we have to throw textbook of truth and fact out the window because the very concept is usually bankrupt of true critical analysis.

The idea of a stereotype (separated completely from any type of bigotry) isn't in itself incorrect. It can be as simple as recognition of an observable pattern with no apparent scientific cause. Now, many perceptions (stereotypes) rarely hold true when picked apart and examined scientifically. (This is why we are usually wrong in assuming stereotypes to hold any sort of truth or basis in reality). This does not change the fact that they exist and in many cases appear to be correct. They may be logical fallacies, but this doesn't make them go away. Taking them for what they are is essential if we're to understand human perception because making them seems to come naturally to us.

I'm certain were we in ancient Greece we would answer the OP headline differently as they held different perceptions. As we would if we were living in some rare Amazonian tribe.  I did try to point out (as I thought of Greeks when I wrote that Weeners) that I think the reasons they admired the male form were apart from the reasons they admired the female.

As to almost every western society to form after the fall of Paganism, the admiration of the female form does seem more highly regarded than that of the male... but then we could also say that might be an effect of the male dominated culture most of these societies lived in. But that's another rant altogether.
 
2013-04-27 10:47:23 PM

adamatari: Considering the number of fujoshi out there, and the popularity of yaoi shipping not just in anime fandom but everywhere... I know MY preferences, but I sure wouldn't place bets on what's more popular. Kyoani's recent announcement of their new anime kinda reinforces this:

[ogmansblog.files.wordpress.com image 400x502]



Yeah. But manga/anime boys and girls all look the same. Slap a skirt and giant boobs on any of those figures on that cover and they're girls. The faces never differ.
 
2013-04-27 10:49:07 PM

GreenSun: "High-profile lesbian athletes have come out while still playing their sports, but not a single gay male athlete in major U.S. professional sports has done the same."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/boxing/2012/10/20/orlando-cruz- ga y-boxer-wins-first-fight-since-out/1646375/


I thought boxing's a major US sport? Maybe the writer just didn't do her research properly.


Author apparently didn't know about this guy, either.
 
2013-04-27 10:49:57 PM

skinink: I bet both are more accepted than transsexuals. If I remember even Dan Savage at one time had an issue with transsexuals. He may be over that now.


A lot of gays take issue with transsexuals, they consider them still closeted, sort of a "im a dude who likes the dick and i can admit that, im not a woman trapped in a mans body".


bobtheallmighty: People will stop being "gay in your face" at about the same time straight people stop being "straight" in your face.


Dont pretend there arent more than a few homosexuals who let themselves be entirely defined by their sexuality, and its annoying.
 
2013-04-27 10:53:25 PM
Dudes know about the kinds of gross, awful shiat that a dude will do and say in order to fark ladies. Now, instead there being ladies, imagine the kinds of gross, awful shiat two dudes who want to fark will do and say to each other. It's all the awfulness of a dude multiplied. I bet ladies are way more chill about that sort of thing. That's far more tolerable.
 
2013-04-27 10:53:34 PM

missmez: Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.

I'm shocked beyond belief to learn that there is a type of sexual activity you don't condone.



What did I just say? I fully condone all manner of consensual gay sex. Male gay sex is just terrifying and horrid, that's all. I don't get all pissy when gay guys criticise the hetero love. And they do.
 
2013-04-27 10:53:55 PM
personally, seeing two guys who are genuinely in love making out is sooo effing adorable :3

I think straight guys are afraid of gay guys because the straighties think they gay guys want to have sex with them and they're afraid they'll like it. I don't believe anyone is completely 100% straight or completely 100% gay anyway.
 
2013-04-27 10:54:41 PM

AcesFull: White_Scarf_Syndrome: AcesFull: propasaurus: Shemale porn, of course


  It takes balls to be a transvestite...

No. You mean transsexual.

You on a Friday night wearing a dress for laughs is transvestism.

The mooore you knoooow!!

  well...and just my opinion..But I'm pretty sure you're gonna lose the balls in a transsexual procedure...And I would think,if you're gonna practice "transvestism" and wear a dress on Friday night.."for laughs"..again,like I said..it takes balls.


Yeah, pretty much.  But, oh...oh god.  Usual she-male has a ....thingy... but there has to be a reverse thingy, with balls.  Ugh.  I just thought of a new "there is porn of it" in my head.

"Vest" or some derivation of it comes from some latin word to wear...or something.  I dunno, look it up.  I'm not sure why I get all Buzz Killington when it comes to referring to transvestites vs. transexuals.

So, anyone care to liven this thread up a bit??

Haw haw!!
 
2013-04-27 10:54:50 PM

silvervial: ladyfortuna: Mugato: I'm all for every type of gay rights there are but there's no denying natural law that lesbians are awesome and gay male sex is horrendously horrid. Now of course there are heinous lesbians, just like any combinations of couples but at the core, everyone loves girl on girl action while the other is for nightmares of prison.

Not if it comes from such places as Corbin Fis - I've said too much already.

*AHEM*...

OMG, CF has the HOTTEST guys, don't they?!!! *fans self*


Holy mother of God! The Dean's List...Oooooh my God, The Dean's List...
 
2013-04-27 10:55:16 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Rynthetyn
Aww, you're adorable. Isn't it past your bedtime? We wouldn't want you to get in trouble with your mommy and daddy for staying up when you're supposed to be fast asleep.

I wasn't trolling, but thanks for leaping into my net?


Well then, if you weren't trolling, you really need to get out more.
 
2013-04-27 10:57:27 PM

ZeroCorpse: adamatari: Considering the number of fujoshi out there, and the popularity of yaoi shipping not just in anime fandom but everywhere... I know MY preferences, but I sure wouldn't place bets on what's more popular. Kyoani's recent announcement of their new anime kinda reinforces this:

[ogmansblog.files.wordpress.com image 400x502]


Yeah. But manga/anime boys and girls all look the same. Slap a skirt and giant boobs on any of those figures on that cover and they're girls. The faces never differ.


I can't be bothered to google Bridget from Guilty Gear and post a picture... So...

Link to Bridget
 
2013-04-27 10:58:07 PM
Of course lesbians can't knock each other up.. Er wait um.. never mind.
 
2013-04-27 10:58:08 PM
In theory (petite hotties making out) yes. In reality (bull dyke truckers smoking brown cigarettes while fluffing their flat tops) no.
 
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