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(AlterNet)   Chomsky: Obama's attacks on civil liberties are disastrous   (alternet.org) divider line 233
    More: Obvious, Noam Chomsky, obama, Anwar al-Awlaki, Espionage Act, Anglo-American, surveillance state, indefinite detention, race war  
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2839 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Apr 2013 at 11:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-27 03:54:11 PM
www.globalnerdy.com
 
2013-04-27 03:56:37 PM
Go home Chomsky, you're drunk.
 
2013-04-27 04:05:24 PM
He's right.
 
2013-04-27 04:15:24 PM

jehovahs witness protection: He's right.


You're not.
 
2013-04-27 04:37:22 PM

Raharu: jehovahs witness protection: He's right.

You're not.


How does that Kool-Aid taste?
 
2013-04-27 04:38:58 PM
What a f*cking racist asshole.
 
2013-04-27 04:42:22 PM
If Chomsky told me the sky was blue I'd have to go outside and check.
 
2013-04-27 07:39:11 PM
Another Socratic dialogue asking questions to the great guru on: linguistics? -nope -computer science -no

What subject is he an expert in that we must resort to asking him questions as if he is a great expert and we are mere pissants....

Our government's non-leniency on terrorists.  In other words, he wants our government to make it easier for terrorists to kill us. Because of freedom or something.
 
2013-04-27 08:02:02 PM
Chomsky's all kind of interesting on linguistics. On politics, he falls somewhere between Alex Jones and Dennis Kucinich. Both sides are bad, so vote Nader and get Bush elected.
 
2013-04-27 08:06:36 PM
Sorry that you now have to end your career at this young age you racist prick
 
2013-04-27 08:18:15 PM
Man we already hit Kool-Aid and Bootlicker in the first few comments. Save some hyperbole for the rest of the thread, fellas, don't shoot your whole wad at once.
 
2013-04-27 08:27:55 PM
Take, say, the first Guantanamo prisoner who went to what's called "trial" under Obama. Omar Khadr, his name is. Take a look at his history. He's a 15-year-old boy in his village in Afghanistan. Soldiers invade the village, so he shoots at them, trying to defend it. That makes him a terrorist.

Not quite that simple. Khadr was a Canadian kid who was transplanted to Afghanistan by his nutty dad. The Khadr family actually lived with the Bin Ladens for a time before this incident occurred and there is no doubt they were fully committed AQ members. The US originally sent a couple of Afghanis in to check out claims that a house in a remote village was supposed to contain AQ. Those guys got shot. Then the US arrived. There was a brief firefight. One American died. Air support was called in. Place was bombed to shiat. One survivor. Omar Khadr. The way they pinned the death of the American soldier on Khadr was total bullshiat as was his treatment at Baghram and eventually Gitmo especially as a 15 year old. But he wasn't just some simple Afghani villager defending his turf as Chomsky seems to think here.
 
2013-04-27 08:31:25 PM

LasersHurt: Man we already hit Kool-Aid and Bootlicker in the first few comments. Save some hyperbole for the rest of the thread, fellas, don't shoot your whole wad at once.


I was in the mood to be one and done with this thread. I'll leave the next 300 comments for the Fark political myrmidons to study out.
 
2013-04-27 08:48:20 PM

Fano: LasersHurt: Man we already hit Kool-Aid and Bootlicker in the first few comments. Save some hyperbole for the rest of the thread, fellas, don't shoot your whole wad at once.

I was in the mood to be one and done with this thread. I'll leave the next 300 comments for the Fark political myrmidons to study out.


God darnit, Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.
 
2013-04-27 08:53:14 PM
Well, some vague authority put the 4th largest city in America on lockdown the other day and searched house-to-house without warrants for two college kids armed with pressure cookers, fireworks, nails and one pistol, so I don't understand what he's talking about.
 
2013-04-27 09:05:34 PM
Obama is the best Republican President we've had since Ike
 
2013-04-27 09:25:25 PM

LasersHurt: Man we already hit Kool-Aid and Bootlicker in the first few comments. Save some hyperbole for the rest of the thread, fellas, don't shoot your whole wad at once.


Godwin is still in play.
 
2013-04-27 09:35:28 PM

quatchi: Take, say, the first Guantanamo prisoner who went to what's called "trial" under Obama. Omar Khadr, his name is. Take a look at his history. He's a 15-year-old boy in his village in Afghanistan. Soldiers invade the village, so he shoots at them, trying to defend it. That makes him a terrorist.

Not quite that simple. Khadr was a Canadian kid who was transplanted to Afghanistan by his nutty dad. The Khadr family actually lived with the Bin Ladens for a time before this incident occurred and there is no doubt they were fully committed AQ members. The US originally sent a couple of Afghanis in to check out claims that a house in a remote village was supposed to contain AQ. Those guys got shot. Then the US arrived. There was a brief firefight. One American died. Air support was called in. Place was bombed to shiat. One survivor. Omar Khadr. The way they pinned the death of the American soldier on Khadr was total bullshiat as was his treatment at Baghram and eventually Gitmo especially as a 15 year old. But he wasn't just some simple Afghani villager defending his turf as Chomsky seems to think here.


Yep, he lost me entirely with this. I've often liked stuff by Chomsky even when I disagreed with him, but this article... eh, it's time for Chomsky to retire. There are many, many things to get upset with Obama about on the civil liberties front, with most having an immunity against the "But Bush!" defense.

But damn, when you're getting the basic facts wrong that are able to be found on Wikipedia... the rest of the argument becomes suspect.
 
2013-04-27 09:41:26 PM
 
2013-04-27 09:43:46 PM

RedPhoenix122: LasersHurt: Man we already hit Kool-Aid and Bootlicker in the first few comments. Save some hyperbole for the rest of the thread, fellas, don't shoot your whole wad at once.

Godwin is still in play.


The fellatio references are scheduled before Godwin.
 
2013-04-27 09:50:43 PM
What's amazing to me is watching the left turn on people for complaining about the same things they complained about under Bush.    Well, that and watching Obama take most of the power grabs Bush made and extend them even further for the Executive branch.

I don't really mind, but you guys are making it easy.As long as Obama does it, it's all good.

Yeah, we got rid of torture.  Now we kill people "just in case", because torture would be wrong.  I'm OK with this.  Apparently, so is everyone else.
 
2013-04-27 09:59:44 PM

Lsherm: What's amazing to me is watching the left turn on people for complaining about the same things they complained about under Bush.    Well, that and watching Obama take most of the power grabs Bush made and extend them even further for the Executive branch.

I don't really mind, but you guys are making it easy.As long as Obama does it, it's all good.

Yeah, we got rid of torture.  Now we kill people "just in case", because torture would be wrong.  I'm OK with this.  Apparently, so is everyone else.


What's amazing to me is watching people on the right constantly ignore the criticism of Obama coming from the left and continue deluding themselves into thinking that the people who voted for Obama consider him a faultless Messiah beyond reproach.

I don't really mind, but...well, but nothing, I don't mind period.
 
2013-04-27 10:02:56 PM

jehovahs witness protection: He's right.


you are correct, in a couple of ways
 
2013-04-27 10:05:43 PM

Lsherm: What's amazing to me is watching the left turn on people for complaining about the same things they complained about under Bush.    Well, that and watching Obama take most of the power grabs Bush made and extend them even further for the Executive branch.

I don't really mind, but you guys are making it easy.As long as Obama does it, it's all good.

Yeah, we got rid of torture.  Now we kill people "just in case", because torture would be wrong.  I'm OK with this.  Apparently, so is everyone else.


So the left didn't like it when Bush did it, and they still don't like it when Obama does it. And this amazes you?
 
2013-04-27 10:08:25 PM

Techhell: quatchi: Take, say, the first Guantanamo prisoner who went to what's called "trial" under Obama. Omar Khadr, his name is. Take a look at his history. He's a 15-year-old boy in his village in Afghanistan. Soldiers invade the village, so he shoots at them, trying to defend it. That makes him a terrorist.

Not quite that simple. Khadr was a Canadian kid who was transplanted to Afghanistan by his nutty dad. The Khadr family actually lived with the Bin Ladens for a time before this incident occurred and there is no doubt they were fully committed AQ members. The US originally sent a couple of Afghanis in to check out claims that a house in a remote village was supposed to contain AQ. Those guys got shot. Then the US arrived. There was a brief firefight. One American died. Air support was called in. Place was bombed to shiat. One survivor. Omar Khadr. The way they pinned the death of the American soldier on Khadr was total bullshiat as was his treatment at Baghram and eventually Gitmo especially as a 15 year old. But he wasn't just some simple Afghani villager defending his turf as Chomsky seems to think here.

Yep, he lost me entirely with this. I've often liked stuff by Chomsky even when I disagreed with him, but this article... eh, it's time for Chomsky to retire. There are many, many things to get upset with Obama about on the civil liberties front, with most having an immunity against the "But Bush!" defense.

But damn, when you're getting the basic facts wrong that are able to be found on Wikipedia... the rest of the argument becomes suspect.


Chomsky has ALWAYS done this. He's lied about the facts and committed rhetorical bait-and-switches. Mostly, Chomsky is like Alex Jones in that he loves to tell his sycophants that ONLY HE is the bearer of truth. He and no other. It's pathetic.
 
2013-04-27 10:32:01 PM

Techhell: Yep, he lost me entirely with this. I've often liked stuff by Chomsky even when I disagreed with him, but this article... eh, it's time for Chomsky to retire. There are many, many things to get upset with Obama about on the civil liberties front, with most having an immunity against the "But Bush!" defense.

But damn, when you're getting the basic facts wrong that are able to be found on Wikipedia... the rest of the argument becomes suspect.


Agreed.

I don't always agree with Chomsky but have I found many of his arguments compelling and/or thought provoking over the years and this, well this is just kinda sad to see.
 
2013-04-27 10:40:54 PM
Noam Chomsky is 100% right, as he has a knack for being right.

List out the Bush era rights attacks. Almost immediately, in his first term, Obama and Holder back those rights grabs up almost immediately, and throw in the Second Amendment as another unneeded "dangerous" right for us to have.

Just add them up - loss of rights over the last 10, 15 years - just start adding them up.
 
2013-04-27 10:45:00 PM
Well, that's a new one: a right-wing teabagger Chomsky-ite troll.
 
2013-04-27 10:59:35 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Noam Chomsky is 100% right, as he has a knack for being right.

List out the Bush era rights attacks. Almost immediately, in his first term, Obama and Holder back those rights grabs up almost immediately, and throw in the Second Amendment as another unneeded "dangerous" right for us to have.

Just add them up - loss of rights over the last 10, 15 years - just start adding them up.


Heh... you think it started 15 years ago
 
2013-04-27 11:04:59 PM
Obama is a moderate Republican with right-leaning stances on civil liberties. I don't see how he's wrong in any way. I've liked Obama on several things but civil liberties and the continued war on terror is not one of them. Bush/Obama have eroded a lot of the personal freedoms we've had in this country, and the country is headed down the path of a police state, with communications being continuously monitored, drones allowed to fly over the country, US citizens no longer protected by due process of law. Even examples like this bomber being charged with a WMD when it is nothing like a weapon of mass destruction. It's a huge reach.

At the same time, Obama does absolutely nothing to prosecute the financial sector for the criminal acts that led us off the cliff in 2008, and the Justice Department continues to drop high profile cases that would act as deterrents to future crimes.

What we're seeing is the setup and promulgation of the plutocratic state, by which the elites are above the law and cannot be punished, the media focuses on fear tactics, and the lower classes are prosecuted to the fullest extent while having their transmissions monitored to prevent any sort of uprising. Congress will continue to act in the same manner, Republicans 'bully' us into inaction while Democrats are pussies and likewise do nothing.

This consolidation of power and erosion of the lower classes is simply the beginning. It will probably take a good 25 years or more to get as bad as Egypt. We'll see more cycles of boom and bust, we'll see the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. We'll see the middle class erode into irrelevancy as higher paying jobs are replaced by people in China or India or perhaps even robots.

And of course we're already talking ourselves into voting another Clinton or Bush into office in 2016. Yeah, things will really change.
 
2013-04-27 11:07:59 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Heh... you think it started 15 years ago


I get what you're saying , but the last 12 have been especially hard on our rights.
 
2013-04-27 11:08:35 PM
Ugh. I hate to agree with Chomsky, but Obama is a war criminal every day that innocent prisoners sit in Guantanamo Bay who are aren't released.


Let me reiterate that: There are people in prison who are known to be innocent who have been there for five years or more. The USA is holding people in prison without charges or trial who are clearly innocent.

Obama is doing this. We are doing this.
 
2013-04-27 11:12:40 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Peter von Nostrand: Heh... you think it started 15 years ago

I get what you're saying , but the last 12 have been especially hard on our rights.


Agreed
 
2013-04-27 11:12:41 PM

vernonFL: Ugh. I hate to agree with Chomsky, but Obama is a war criminal every day that innocent prisoners sit in Guantanamo Bay who are aren't released.


Let me reiterate that: There are people in prison who are known to be innocent who have been there for five years or more. The USA is holding people in prison without charges or trial who are clearly innocent.

Obama is doing this. We are doing this.


Obama had the political will to get healthcare legislation passed.

He just gave up on trying to close GITMO.

Most likely by now he is happy that he never tried to seriously close it because of how useful it is.
 
2013-04-27 11:13:48 PM

cman: vernonFL: Ugh. I hate to agree with Chomsky, but Obama is a war criminal every day that innocent prisoners sit in Guantanamo Bay who are aren't released.


Let me reiterate that: There are people in prison who are known to be innocent who have been there for five years or more. The USA is holding people in prison without charges or trial who are clearly innocent.

Obama is doing this. We are doing this.

Obama spent all his political will to get healthcare legislation passed.

He just gave up on trying to close GITMO.

Most likely by now he is happy that he never tried to seriously close it because of how useful it is.


My bad. Fixt for clarity.
 
2013-04-27 11:14:03 PM
The right wing still thinks he's leading the left. That's the central problem of the right wing: they had the entire Reagan Revolution to kill off the '60's and they STILL can't get over it and are still living in it. The 60's are dead. Join them.
 
2013-04-27 11:15:08 PM

cman: cman: vernonFL: Ugh. I hate to agree with Chomsky, but Obama is a war criminal every day that innocent prisoners sit in Guantanamo Bay who are aren't released.


Let me reiterate that: There are people in prison who are known to be innocent who have been there for five years or more. The USA is holding people in prison without charges or trial who are clearly innocent.

Obama is doing this. We are doing this.

Obama spent all his political capital to get healthcare legislation passed.

He just gave up on trying to close GITMO.

Most likely by now he is happy that he never tried to seriously close it because of how useful it is.

My bad. Fixt for clarity.


And fixt again.

Damn I am tired.
 
2013-04-27 11:16:04 PM
OK, libtards, where is your savior now?
 
2013-04-27 11:18:08 PM

Lsherm: What's amazing to me is watching the left turn on people for complaining about the same things they complained about under Bush.    Well, that and watching Obama take most of the power grabs Bush made and extend them even further for the Executive branch.

I don't really mind, but you guys are making it easy.As long as Obama does it, it's all good.

Yeah, we got rid of torture.  Now we kill people "just in case", because torture would be wrong.  I'm OK with this.  Apparently, so is everyone else.


Yeah, you must not have been paying attention when we ripped him apart for the drone memos.
 
2013-04-27 11:19:01 PM

mbillips: Chomsky's all kind of interesting on linguistics. On politics, he falls somewhere between Alex Jones and Dennis Kucinich. Both sides are bad, so vote Nader and get Bush elected.


Nader had nothing to do with it.  All Gore had to do was win his own home state.  But he failed to do that.
 
2013-04-27 11:19:45 PM

vernonFL: but Obama is a war criminal every day that innocent prisoners sit in Guantanamo Bay who are aren't released.


Congress denied funds to close Gitmo and no country will take its prisoners.

Yeah, it sucks that Obama hasn't reversed everything Bush spent 8 years farking up, I never thought he would. But what was the alternative?
 
2013-04-27 11:19:57 PM

bdub77: Obama is a moderate Republican with right-leaning stances on civil liberties. I don't see how he's wrong in any way. I've liked Obama on several things but civil liberties and the continued war on terror is not one of them.


Damn bro, way to nail it.

The day after he beat McCain, and I didn't vote for him, I really thought we'd be ok. I thought - he is super sharp, a Harvard guy, public policy experience, he will figure out how to be an executive - which is the role he was elected in to in.

It just didn't happen. He never grew, never went from "community activist" sh*t thrower to "congressional committee" sh*t thrower, to Executive that has actual accountability and must make decisions. He never was able to make that move.
 
2013-04-27 11:23:51 PM

Bucky Katt: mbillips: Chomsky's all kind of interesting on linguistics. On politics, he falls somewhere between Alex Jones and Dennis Kucinich. Both sides are bad, so vote Nader and get Bush elected.

Nader had nothing to do with it.  All Gore had to do was win his own home state.  But he failed to do that.


Gore's home state is the Supreme Court?
 
2013-04-27 11:25:00 PM

Lsherm: What's amazing to me is watching the left turn on people for complaining about the same things they complained about under Bush.


There is no left or right in the United States, there is only government for the rich and powerful. It's been that way for some time.
 
2013-04-27 11:25:27 PM

Mentat: Lsherm: What's amazing to me is watching the left turn on people for complaining about the same things they complained about under Bush.    Well, that and watching Obama take most of the power grabs Bush made and extend them even further for the Executive branch.

I don't really mind, but you guys are making it easy.As long as Obama does it, it's all good.

Yeah, we got rid of torture.  Now we kill people "just in case", because torture would be wrong.  I'm OK with this.  Apparently, so is everyone else.

Yeah, you must not have been paying attention when we ripped him apart for the drone memos.


What you all missed while congratulating yourselves over the end of torture was that we're just killing them instead.  The drone memos would have been high news if done under Bush, but it's been a largely "meh" from the community this time around.

Either way, there's no stopping it, and it's pretty effective.
 
2013-04-27 11:26:32 PM

goatleggedfellow: Bucky Katt: mbillips: Chomsky's all kind of interesting on linguistics. On politics, he falls somewhere between Alex Jones and Dennis Kucinich. Both sides are bad, so vote Nader and get Bush elected.

Nader had nothing to do with it.  All Gore had to do was win his own home state.  But he failed to do that.

Gore's home state is the Supreme Court?


He was born on the steeps out front.
 
2013-04-27 11:28:27 PM
yes, steeps.  i meant to type that.
 
2013-04-27 11:29:32 PM

Bucky Katt: mbillips: Chomsky's all kind of interesting on linguistics. On politics, he falls somewhere between Alex Jones and Dennis Kucinich. Both sides are bad, so vote Nader and get Bush elected.

Nader had nothing to do with it.  All Gore had to do was win his own home state.  But he failed to do that.


You misspelled New Hampshire
 
2013-04-27 11:44:47 PM
The innocent inmates of GITMO are on a hunger strike. Obama said he would deal with GITMO 5 years ago.

Every day GITMO stays open and innocent people are incarcerated without charges, Obama is a war criminal.
 
2013-04-27 11:52:50 PM
Hey waitafugginminute.  Chomsky's an America-hating commie, and B. Hussein Osama is an America-hating commie.  WTF is this?  America-hating commies criticizing America-hating commies?

*wingnut heads asplode*
 
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