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(Some Angry Doctor)   Not news: CPS removes a baby from his parents. News: After the parents sought a second opinion from another hospital and the first hospital called the cops. SCARY: Subette is scheduled to have her baby at the same hospital   (thehealthyhomeeconomist.com) divider line 198
    More: Scary  
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15769 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Apr 2013 at 3:09 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-27 01:58:01 PM  
Wow, that's horse shiat. They got a second opinion that they could take a baby home from another hospital. Its not like they took the baby home without having medical professionals look after him. Doctors don't like being questioned at all apparently. I thought good doctors would encourage second opinions.
 
2013-04-27 02:03:13 PM  
Seriously it's as though you're psychic, lady. I'm subby. WHAT THE EFF. And I have a medical background too. If I'm not comfortable with the level of care my kiddo is getting, I would do the same thing.
Of course I'd probably make them sign a waiver saying I'm allowed to leave AMA in the interest of my own child before I did.
 
2013-04-27 02:11:11 PM  
Holy.Farking.Shiat.
 
2013-04-27 02:13:01 PM  
I wouldn't blow the pop stand without signing out, but I kind of doubt that they would have cared either way, it sounds like they had a massive case of butthurt when they left.

Its kind of scary that Sutter started talking heart surgery after having the kid two weeks and Kaiser was OK with them taking baby home. Something seems weird about that!
 
2013-04-27 02:21:44 PM  
Just watched the video. They threw him down, took his keys and let themselves in?! Poor bastard probably thought he left that shiat behind in his native country. Sorry, friend. We have let you down.
 
2013-04-27 02:22:10 PM  
I can see if possibly the kiddo was a bit unstable when they took him, but if that was the case, the cops at Kaiser wouldn't have said the kid was ok. I'm just scratching my head as to who thought that parents trying to CARE for their child warrants a CPS call. It's not like they were taking the kid to a faith healer.
 
2013-04-27 02:56:59 PM  

kiwimoogle84: I can see if possibly the kiddo was a bit unstable when they took him, but if that was the case, the cops at Kaiser wouldn't have said the kid was ok. I'm just scratching my head as to who thought that parents trying to CARE for their child warrants a CPS call. It's not like they were taking the kid to a faith healer.


That's what I'm thinking. Why would the Sutter doctors trump the Kaiser doctors with CPS? And I'd be more angry that they returned the child to the care of Sutter after I felt they were doing an inadequate job. At the very least, you'd think CPS would take the parents desires into consideration and taking the child back to Kaiser.

Its not like CPS is paying for the medical care for the child, so I would be mad that Sutter is racking up more medical bills for my child when I already declined their services.

I do wonder if there is a language barrier. One of my less awesome former coworkers treats people with accents or a limited English vocabulary as if they're stupid... I feel like its bigoted to treat someone with an accent or a smaller vocabulary as if they're not smart enough to make educated decisions. Meanwhile, this guy didn't speak even a little of a second language, so who, really, is the stupid person?
 
2013-04-27 03:12:55 PM  
Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.
 
2013-04-27 03:30:19 PM  
Sutter Memorial Hospital.  All your babbys are belong to us!
 
2013-04-27 03:36:17 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.


This is going to be just like that out-of-context "pass the bill to find out what's in it" BS, isn't it?  You're just going to keep trotting that out every opportunity you get no matter how many times someone explains it to you.
 
2013-04-27 04:03:38 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.


Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.
 
2013-04-27 04:18:38 PM  

kiwimoogle84: I can see if possibly the kiddo was a bit unstable when they took him, but if that was the case, the cops at Kaiser wouldn't have said the kid was ok. I'm just scratching my head as to who thought that parents trying to CARE for their child warrants a CPS call. It's not like they were taking the kid to a faith healer.


If they did take the kid to a faith healer to die they probably would have not raised any official eyebrows (as long as it was a christian faith healer)
 
2013-04-27 05:41:14 PM  
That's a suin'.
 
2013-04-27 05:49:23 PM  

El_Frijole_Blanco: kiwimoogle84: I can see if possibly the kiddo was a bit unstable when they took him, but if that was the case, the cops at Kaiser wouldn't have said the kid was ok. I'm just scratching my head as to who thought that parents trying to CARE for their child warrants a CPS call. It's not like they were taking the kid to a faith healer.

If they did take the kid to a faith healer to die they probably would have not raised any official eyebrows (as long as it was a christian faith healer)


And that's what's so sad.
 
2013-04-27 05:56:26 PM  
Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that
 
2013-04-27 08:45:25 PM  
I'd like to see something about this in some legitimate media outlet before I believe it.
 
2013-04-27 09:13:57 PM  

Speaker2Animals: I'd like to see something about this in some legitimate media outlet before I believe it.



If you click on the video it takes you to ABC news. This is legit.
 
2013-04-27 11:41:03 PM  
These are the people that want to take our guns.
 
2013-04-28 12:09:04 PM  
Go to another hospital and make sure you inform  Sutter of the reason why.
 
2013-04-28 01:11:21 PM  

Speaker2Animals: I'd like to see something about this in some legitimate media outlet before I believe it.


This. Something is not adding up with this article and the information inside that is being presented. There is something being left out here, at the very least.

They brought the baby in for "flu like symptoms" (which honestly could be anything, including the flu) but then began talking about "heart surgery"? An ER doctor is not going to talk to parents about heart surgery for their child to begin with, the cardiovascular surgery attending is going to do that.

So, EVEN if that's the case, and they thought the child had the potential for being septic with a known congenital heart defect that required repair, then they were most definitely warranted in contacting CPS for the parents taking the child AMA without treatment.

What they don't mention, as well, is that it's pretty standard for the police to go to people's houses if they come back with a potentially life-threatening test result and don't bring the child back for evaluation or treatment. Even with the negative publicity, it's far cheaper than having a child die from sepsis after the parents refuse to get their child's positive blood culture treated.
 
2013-04-28 01:27:47 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.


thinkoutsidethebarn.com
 
2013-04-28 01:29:37 PM  
i.imgur.com

R.I.P  CVS
 
2013-04-28 01:35:17 PM  

kiwimoogle84: Speaker2Animals: I'd like to see something about this in some legitimate media outlet before I believe it.


If you click on the video it takes you to ABC news. This is legit.


Here's an update for clarification. Sounds like a big misunderstanding that will get fixed tomorrow.  I'd bet money that the root of it all is a low-end hospital admin with an attitude problem.
 
2013-04-28 01:36:45 PM  
FTFA:  "medical records that clearly stated that Sammy was clinically safe to go home "

But the OTHER docs trump, and the police, who saw said records, somehow have enough medical knowledge to back that up with force?

Holy hell - I ~hate~ CPS, having had a run-in with them before, due to a biatchy neighbor, but that is unbelievably insane.  If I were in that situation, I worry I would become irrationally violent if my child were taken away from me and brought to a place where I questioned the medical care.
 
2013-04-28 01:39:56 PM  

hardinparamedic: Something is not adding up with this article and the information inside that is being presented. There is something being left out here, at the very least. They brought the baby in for "flu like symptoms" (which honestly could be anything, including the flu) but then began talking about "heart surgery"? An ER doctor is not going to talk to parents about heart surgery for their child to begin with, the cardiovascular surgery attending is going to do that.



I didn't see in TFA that this was in the ER. Something is definitely screwed up here but I'm not sure if we have enough info to form an opinion. My hops is that the family already has a lawyer on the case.
 
2013-04-28 01:41:40 PM  

thamike: I'd bet money that the root of it all is a low-end hospital admin with an attitude problem.


If that's the case, they need a'prosecutin'.   Sadly, there will likely be no repercussions for the asshat who caused this

From your link "She called us back and said we can have this visit at 6 o'clock without any video camera in the room, without taking any pictures," Anna said, describing her conversation with CPS.

Really?  What the hell?  Why would they care if they took pictures OF THEIR OWN CHILD?

Seriously, to hell with CPS.
 
2013-04-28 01:43:28 PM  

Somacandra: hardinparamedic: Something is not adding up with this article and the information inside that is being presented. There is something being left out here, at the very least. They brought the baby in for "flu like symptoms" (which honestly could be anything, including the flu) but then began talking about "heart surgery"? An ER doctor is not going to talk to parents about heart surgery for their child to begin with, the cardiovascular surgery attending is going to do that.

I didn't see in TFA that this was in the ER. Something is definitely screwed up here but I'm not sure if we have enough info to form an opinion. My hops is that the family already has a lawyer on the case.


Apparently the child has a heart murmur, which is well documented, and for which they are already seeing a specialist regularly at the original hospital.
 
2013-04-28 01:53:01 PM  
So, don't be a biatch and you'll be fine.


Thamike posted a better, clearer version of the story.

All in all, a farked up story. I hope the doctor throwing the hissy fit gets his license stripped, and others who farked up here gets kicked in the balls.

Who am I kidding. That won't happen.
 
2013-04-28 01:55:39 PM  

Uisce Beatha: thamike: I'd bet money that the root of it all is a low-end hospital admin with an attitude problem.

If that's the case, they need a'prosecutin'.   Sadly, there will likely be no repercussions for the asshat who caused this


Yeah, well, "low-end hospital admin with a bad attitude" is a bit redundant, anyway.  ER is even worse.

I got run over by a car in a coffee shop once.  I was shredded pretty badly by the plate glass window and in pain, but I basically walked away from it. The other two people got f*cked up much, much worse, despite me being the only one actually hit by the car.  Anyway, so I'm waiting at UCLA hospital to see a doctor, and the guy behind me in line is having an anal aneurysm.  The admin was being a complete BonQuiQui to him, and it only got worse when I insisted he cut ahead of me.  I actually had to bust past her and find a doctor, who took her to task and got the guy some help. To give you some perspective, I had never seen a human being in that much pain before, and I had just witnessed a guy with a severely bleeding gash-per-square inch of his body and a girl lose a leg at the shin.  So you can imagine how much of a c*nt this admin was being.
 
2013-04-28 02:18:14 PM  
Switch hospitals and be sure to tell Sutter why, like the guy said above. Tell your OB why as well.

Somewhere within a mile of that hospital there is a child that needs removal from his family, but CPS will always go for the innocent people first.
 
2013-04-28 02:31:01 PM  

Bunny Deville: Switch hospitals and be sure to tell Sutter why, like the guy said above. Tell your OB why as well.

Somewhere within a mile of that hospital there is a child that needs removal from his family, but CPS will always go for the innocent people first.


I've already left a message for my OB's office asking which other hospitals she is contracted with. I feel like I would get the same treatment if it was my sick kid because I DO have a background in medicine, and I have zero problem asking questions.

Granted, I won't just leave AMA without informing absolutely everyone of my intentions and signing paperwork. I think someone saw "abducted child" and got a stick up their arse. But I certainly do keep an eye on my medical professionals. Most are good but there's a few bad eggs in there.
 
2013-04-28 02:39:23 PM  
I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.
 
2013-04-28 03:15:22 PM  
Sue the hospital and police, get a large settlement and ensure they can't afford to do it again.
 
2013-04-28 03:15:40 PM  
I'm reading that whole thing with a 10 pound block of salt.  TFA is from a "Traditional Cultures nutrition" anti-doctor website.
 
2013-04-28 03:17:33 PM  
It's another case of people doing shiat just because they can. See user name.
 
2013-04-28 03:18:40 PM  
Hospital gets a baby born there with a heart murmur.
Hospital makes more money for constant outpatient care of child.
Hospital decides to make major money by doing heart surgery.
Parents pull kid out to get a second opinion and then get to experience Social services, child protection branch.

Parents will end up making about $2 million from lawsuit against the hospital for kidnapping their kid to perform what is deemed as unnecessary surgery that is forced on without outside medical advice.
 
2013-04-28 03:20:03 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.


Go F&^% yourself.
 
2013-04-28 03:20:58 PM  

Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that


You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13
 
2013-04-28 03:21:15 PM  
Until I read the story, all I could think was "All the other hospital is going to say is 'Yes, it's a baby... here's your bill.'"

So yeah, it sounds like a petty bit of BS to me.  Doctors not liking that their opinions/diagnosis was questioned.
 
2013-04-28 03:21:53 PM  

Speaker2Animals: I'd like to see something about this in some legitimate media outlet before I believe it.


It was on News10, our local ABC affiliate, and their reporting is generally quite good.
 
2013-04-28 03:23:16 PM  
This story is sad for the parents, but I'm honestly a little baffled at the irresponsibility of this writer actually suggesting you shouldn't take your sick children to the hospital. That is a dangerous and reckless thing to encourage... not all hospitals are such arseholes so for the love of god people TAKE YOUR SICK CHILDREN TO THE HOSPITAL.
 
2013-04-28 03:23:26 PM  

FrancoFile: I'm reading that whole thing with a 10 pound block of salt.  TFA is from a "Traditional Cultures nutrition" anti-doctor website.


under "sources" they show the abc news article they plagiarized
http://www.news10.net/news/article/242734/2/Couple-fights-to-get-bab y- back-from-CPS-police
 
2013-04-28 03:25:22 PM  

thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.


That's an excellent question. Even if you get taken to a non-Kaiser ER, Kaiser is usually pretty good about getting you transferred to their facilities right quick.
 
2013-04-28 03:26:10 PM  

sheep snorter: Hospital gets a baby born there with a heart murmur.
Hospital makes more money for constant outpatient care of child.
Hospital decides to make major money by doing heart surgery.
Parents pull kid out to get a second opinion and then get to experience Social services, child protection branch.

Parents will end up making about $2 million from lawsuit against the hospital for kidnapping their kid to perform what is deemed as unnecessary surgery that is forced on without outside medical advice.


heh
unless of course, we are missing details
the murmur got much worse, o2sat levels were diving and the baby was in danger of anoxia and death
so if it were "emergency" surgery to save the life, they probably have a defense.

so ... was the surgery done once the kids was stolen from the parents?
cause if not, well then, why was the kid taken from the parents???

/why isnt religious education or religions which ban modern medicine treated the same way? CLEAR and PRESENT danger to the children!!!
 
2013-04-28 03:28:14 PM  

reklamfox: This story is sad for the parents, but I'm honestly a little baffled at the irresponsibility of this writer actually suggesting you shouldn't take your sick children to the hospital. That is a dangerous and reckless thing to encourage... not all hospitals are such arseholes so for the love of god people TAKE YOUR SICK CHILDREN TO THE HOSPITAL.


go a step further, how many people are actually informed enough about medicine to ACTUALLY make an informed decision? assuming no errors on the drs part.

of course in this case, this hospital was CLEARLY a dangerous place. drugs were being given without drs orders? lolwut?

/shudder dammed if we do, dammed if we dont
 
2013-04-28 03:28:27 PM  
Children do not belong to their parents .  They don't own them.   Children belong to the community as a whole.

Send the billl for care to - MSNBC
 
2013-04-28 03:28:27 PM  

kiwimoogle84: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.



Problem is you've lived there all your life, so you don't know any better. California is a pimple on the backside of the USA
 
2013-04-28 03:29:51 PM  

namatad: /why isnt religious education or religions which ban modern medicine treated the same way?


They frequently are.  Problem is that they are secretive and often nobody else knows about it until it's too late.  One of my professors broke a story about Korean Christian exorcisms in the DC metro area.  These exorcisms are always traumatic, usually painful, and sometimes deadly.  And they're done for the most absurd reasons.  So, there's been a crackdown of sorts.
 
2013-04-28 03:31:39 PM  
Having dealt with CPS due to a vindictive daycare worker, I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
Actually, it our case, the CPS worker and the cops saw right through the bullshiat right away and the kids went nowhere. Well, except to a different day care center from that day forward.

/said daycare worker was pissed that I brought it to the owner's attention that she was falsifying incident reports
//by crossing out her own child's name and inserting our daughter's name on any report where one kid hit/bit/kicked another
 
2013-04-28 03:31:53 PM  

netcentric: Children do not belong to their parents .  They don't own them.   Children belong to the community as a whole.

Send the billl for care to - MSNBC


Hey, look, this chromosome salad forgot he was still logged in under this handle.
 
2013-04-28 03:32:43 PM  
From the legit news sites, and the link from thamike, this does sound like a complete screw up from CPS. That said, I can somewhat understand the position CPS is in. My ex-wife was a pediatric ICU nurse, and when handing the baby over to the parents at times she felt like she was giving the kid a death sentence.

Violent cops on the other hand...
 
2013-04-28 03:34:12 PM  

FrancoFile: I'm reading that whole thing with a 10 pound block of salt.  TFA is from a "Traditional Cultures nutrition" anti-doctor website.


Then you should click on thamike's link. Just scroll up. I had the same immediate reaction you did, not to the story itself but to the blog entry Subby posted.
 
2013-04-28 03:38:05 PM  
Last lines of the article: Think long and hard before taking your children to the hospital my friends. Once you go through that door, the medical decisions about your child are no longer within your control.

Yes, better let them die at home while you chant/prey oven them and wave incence/a holy book/crystals/burning sage over them.

Now go churn some butter in the back yard.
 
2013-04-28 03:39:42 PM  

netcentric: Children do not belong to their parents .  They don't own them.   Children belong to the community as a whole.

Send the billl for care to - MSNBC


Yeah right. See what happens if I take the kid down the street that "belongs to the community as a whole" to the movies without consent of the parents and see where I end up. (Hint: cement and bars, and probably a nice entry in the sex offender registry.)


Parents / legal guardians don't "own" kids like property, but they are supposed to be able to make reasonable decisions regarding the kids' well-being. If they want a second hospital's opinion on something, they should get it without harassment from the jackboots.

And as far as the pigs forcefully taking the guy's keys and storming the house: What happened to police warrants, or is a warrant not required in a CPS case?
 
2013-04-28 03:40:17 PM  

reklamfox: This story is sad for the parents, but I'm honestly a little baffled at the irresponsibility of this writer actually suggesting you shouldn't take your sick children to the hospital. That is a dangerous and reckless thing to encourage... not all hospitals are such arseholes so for the love of god people TAKE YOUR SICK CHILDREN TO THE HOSPITAL.


One of the articles linked from that story takes the opinion of one retired doctor and trumpets that parents shouldn't feel guilty about not immunizing their children... because supposedly "herd immunity" is an invalid concept.

'Nuff said about the credibility of their conclusions.
 
2013-04-28 03:42:19 PM  

8zo: AcneVulgaris: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Thanks for your input, insignificant flyoverland-dwelling douchebag.

Be careful, citizen.  The only thing we all belong to is the State.  The baby properly only belongs to the mother while it is still in her womb (or shortly thereafter).  Once the baby is out of her womb for, say, an hour or two: THEN it properly belongs to the State.

Obey.


You're crying in your trailerbecause your'e too farking lame to make it on the coasts, and it's all Obama's fault.
 
2013-04-28 03:44:19 PM  
www.dakotavoice.com

'We, as compassionate liberals, know how to run you and your children's lives better than you ever will! No more obesity! No more old-school parenting! No more freedom to choose how you live you life, because we need to keep you alive and working to increase the GDP as long as possible!
Oh, and less alcohol, and much more coffee and energy drinks! It makes you so productive, drone!
You'll thank us in the end!'
 
2013-04-28 03:46:46 PM  
After witnessing the second coming of Jesus , I vowed never to watch Mexican porn every again

//got nothing
 
2013-04-28 03:46:58 PM  

sleeps in trees: I'm curious as to if the parents are well insured. I know it's cynical.


More realistic than you think.

Her Facebook profile shows that she doesn't work though....so......welfare sucking immigrant?


(looks like he's a software developer with a BS degree in computer science, which is probably why he doesn't have a Facebook account)
 
2013-04-28 03:49:21 PM  
Something similar very nearly almost happened to us on numerous occasions...

Son was being breastfed, and wasn't gaining weight as fast as they'd like...  never mind that before 2 months, he was rolling around the room, was crawling by 4 months, etc.   And that Daddy is 130 lbs soaking wet.  OMG, he's malnourished!
CPS showed up after we stopped going to that office.  Fortunately, the new doctor was available via phone to set them straight, or we might have been in the same boat.

/boy's 4 now
//weighs a whopping 33 lbs ;).
///and still has a motor that won't quit.
 
2013-04-28 03:49:57 PM  
Relax!  At least we don't live a Police State.  Am I right?
 
2013-04-28 03:50:09 PM  

thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.


Kaiser contracts with Sutter for some birthing stuff. Or was that Alta Bates? Anyway there's probably some kind of partnership thing there.
 
2013-04-28 03:54:28 PM  
"A hearing is scheduled for Monday, April 29, 2013 on the incident which was triggered when Anna Nikolayev and her husband Alex took baby Sammy out of Sutter Memorial Hospital and sought a second opinion at Kaiser Permanente, a rival hospital, "

================================

The best reason EVAH for free market competition in health care.

As for those of you dumping on CPS, you don't know what the doctors at the hospital told them.  What if the kid really was in danger and they ignored it?  You'd be here dumping on the farking lazy cops.   The blame rests with the hospital and the doctors.
 
2013-04-28 03:55:59 PM  
Before people start jumping down the throats of the doctors, I read about this story from another source.  The kid was checked into a children's ICU at the first hospital, then the mom simply took the kid to the second without getting him checked out.  The kid turned out to be fine, but just grabbing your kid without going through the paperwork will get you an automatic police/cps visit.
 
2013-04-28 03:56:05 PM  
This smells of anti-vaxxer/anti-doctor crowd, where they question actual medical knowledge with some BS they read on a blog and then flip out when they are ignored.  The site even mentions in the footnote some other anti-vaxxer couple that was wronged in a similar way.

I'm actually perfectly fine with anti-vaxxers being rounded up and beaten.
 
2013-04-28 04:00:09 PM  

kiwimoogle84: Speaker2Animals: I'd like to see something about this in some legitimate media outlet before I believe it.


If you click on the video it takes you to ABC news. This is legit.


Here's the thing Speaker2Animals isn't going there to give birth to a kid. You are. I'd say the level of "is this legit" would be pretty freaking low for me if I was either a woman or pregnant, or perhaps both, and scheduled to go to Sutter.

To it it plainly, they got some 'splainin' to do. And I'm guessing someone will have to put his hat in his or her hand and sincerely apologize before it's all over.
 
2013-04-28 04:00:23 PM  
I hate paperwork as much as the next guy but hospitals are forced to put you through those hoops.  Just sign the papers and have the child directly transferred, there would have been no issue.  If the child is that sick, then it should have been a pickup and drop off.  Not what this was, which is where they pickup and take home.  He was in the ICU, come on morons.
 
2013-04-28 04:01:19 PM  

Darkrover2: [www.dakotavoice.com image 450x301]

'We, as compassionate liberals, know how to run you and your children's lives better than you ever will! No more obesity! No more old-school parenting! No more freedom to choose how you live you life, because we need to keep you alive and working to increase the GDP as long as possible!
Oh, and less alcohol, and much more coffee and energy drinks! It makes you so productive, drone!
You'll thank us in the end!'


You know, there are plenty of countries you can live in where you can beat the crap out of your kids as you wish.  Or malnourish them.  Or have them work 40 hour weeks.  Or have them killing people in an army by age 10.  Feel free to go to any of those fabulous bastions of freedom if you feel too oppressed here.
 
2013-04-28 04:02:36 PM  
They deserve to be sued, but they are protected, because they say so.
 
2013-04-28 04:10:58 PM  

doofusgumby: thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.

Kaiser contracts with Sutter for some birthing stuff. Or was that Alta Bates? Anyway there's probably some kind of partnership thing there.


I had thought of it, but Kaiser's OB/GYN is top rate, and the article says it's a rival of Sutter.

MadAzza: FrancoFile: I'm reading that whole thing with a 10 pound block of salt.  TFA is from a "Traditional Cultures nutrition" anti-doctor website.

Then you should click on thamike's link. Just scroll up. I had the same immediate reaction you did, not to the story itself but to the blog entry Subby posted.


Funny thing is, my link is an update from the original ABC News10 article, which is linked in the blog.

The more I look at it, the more this looks like the CPS was working on info they obtained from a credible source--a doctor--who obtained his info from a dubious source--an admin with a bad attitude--who obtained the original info from the worst possible source--a nurse still seething from being ridiculed by the parents and the pediatric specialist.  And it all happened in a town that was being patrolled by an angry cop and his by-the-book partner.
 
2013-04-28 04:12:21 PM  
Doctors develop a god complex after a while and have a giant ego. They are always right and they know more than anyone on the planet. So of course someone calls this douche of a doctor on his bullshiat and he lashes out like a baby and lies to CPS.
 
2013-04-28 04:13:41 PM  

balloot: Darkrover2: [www.dakotavoice.com image 450x301]

'We, as compassionate liberals, know how to run you and your children's lives better than you ever will! No more obesity! No more old-school parenting! No more freedom to choose how you live you life, because we need to keep you alive and working to increase the GDP as long as possible!
Oh, and less alcohol, and much more coffee and energy drinks! It makes you so productive, drone!
You'll thank us in the end!'

You know, there are plenty of countries you can live in where you can beat the crap out of your kids as you wish.  Or malnourish them.  Or have them work 40 hour weeks.  Or have them killing people in an army by age 10.  Feel free to go to any of those fabulous bastions of freedom if you feel too oppressed here.


=================

I have to wonder how much life experience the anti-CPS people really have, or are they just plain ol' dense?  I don't believe the state should micromanage families, but there are times when it's appropriate for the state to intervene.  When I was a boy, I had a school friend who was being raised by his biological mother and his step-dad.  Their house was perfect, their cars were spotless, the lawn looked like each blade of grass was cut individually.  Superficially, everything looked great.  Behind the scenes things were different.  His mother had serious emotional issues, and was repeatedly hospitalized for nervous breakdown.  She was addicted to all kinds of prescription meds.  Step-dad was a violent head-case sheriff's officers who believed that little kids should be treated the same way as USMC recruits at Paris Island.  I'm not even going to begin telling you all the ways they farked up that kid.  He would have been much better off had CPS intervened while he was still in grade school.  As it turned out, he ended up in a center for emotionally disturbed teens.
 
2013-04-28 04:16:38 PM  
Yet a teacher can find bleeding welps from neck to calves on a 4 year old, apparently caused by a beating from an extension cord, call CPS on the parents, and be told, "Sorry, there's nothing we can do here." I know this because it happened to my wife. What the fark is wrong with this country?
 
2013-04-28 04:18:36 PM  
Move along citizen.   Obligatory
 
2013-04-28 04:24:28 PM  
Well subby, sounds to me like you need to find another hospital. You need to do that right away. You should go into Sutter, be calm, firm, and very vocal about why your are doing this.
 
2013-04-28 04:25:04 PM  
P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

Subbette is right to be concerned. Several years ago there was a story about a woman that objected to a planned cesarean. The doctor scheduled the procedure because it fit his schedule, not because it was medically necessary. In order to avoid unnecessary surgery, the woman left town and spent the last few weeks with her mother. She had a normal delivery there (new doctor and hospital) and returned home to find that her original doctor had gone to court and had her declared mentally incompetent. A court order was waiting to force her to have a cesarean. Doctors often put their golf game ahead of patient safety, and hospitals often put their profit margin above all else.
 
2013-04-28 04:26:26 PM  

astouffer: Doctors develop a god complex after a while and have a giant ego. They are always right and they know more than anyone on the planet. So of course someone calls this douche of a doctor on his bullshiat and he lashes out like a baby and lies to CPS.


I have never encountered this doctor. Then again, I don't have an inferiority complex.
 
2013-04-28 04:27:53 PM  

R.A.Danny: These are the people that want to take our guns.


i114.photobucket.com

Priorities, Danny. Jesus.
 
2013-04-28 04:29:52 PM  
Do not go to that hospital.
 
2013-04-28 04:33:50 PM  

TheSwissNavy: You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13


He said they were conservative not stupid.

Me the FA says CPS has to go before a Judge tomorrow.  Hopefully he'll blow a gasket terminate CPS's custody and order the kid over to Kaiser.

\Fark me I'm old.  I remember when Kaiser ran the shi'ity hospitals.
\\Have no kids, but would never take them to Sutter if I did.
 
2013-04-28 04:34:26 PM  
Whoever told them they cannot take pictures during their visit needs to be taken out and shot. There is no legitimate concern for the well being of the child by taking pictures or video, this is purely about power and CPS controlling the story.
 
2013-04-28 04:35:22 PM  

Guairdean: Subbette is right to be concerned. Several years ago there was a story about a woman that objected to a planned cesarean. The doctor scheduled the procedure because it fit his schedule, not because it was medically necessary. In order to avoid unnecessary surgery, the woman left town and spent the last few weeks with her mother. She had a normal delivery there (new doctor and hospital) and returned home to find that her original doctor had gone to court and had her declared mentally incompetent. A court order was waiting to force her to have a cesarean. Doctors often put their golf game ahead of patient safety, and hospitals often put their profit margin above all else.


Her name was Amber Marlowe and the provider was Wilkes-Barre General. You can thank me for doing your homework for you later, in the meantime, I'll just point out that there have also been numerous cases of idiots resisting the advice of doctors and killing their newborns. Midwives and junkies tend to be the biggest offenders on this front.

Should a doctor be able to forcibly compel a crackhead to undergo necessary surgery to save her babies when the crackhead refuses?
 
2013-04-28 04:37:51 PM  

BlackMtnMan: kiwimoogle84: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.


Problem is you've lived there all your life, so you don't know any better. California is a pimple on the backside of the USA


So what? You're black.
 
2013-04-28 04:38:18 PM  

skozlaw: Guairdean: Subbette is right to be concerned. Several years ago there was a story about a woman that objected to a planned cesarean. The doctor scheduled the procedure because it fit his schedule, not because it was medically necessary. In order to avoid unnecessary surgery, the woman left town and spent the last few weeks with her mother. She had a normal delivery there (new doctor and hospital) and returned home to find that her original doctor had gone to court and had her declared mentally incompetent. A court order was waiting to force her to have a cesarean. Doctors often put their golf game ahead of patient safety, and hospitals often put their profit margin above all else.

Her name was Amber Marlowe and the provider was Wilkes-Barre General. You can thank me for doing your homework for you later, in the meantime, I'll just point out that there have also been numerous cases of idiots resisting the advice of doctors and killing their newborns. Midwives and junkies tend to be the biggest offenders on this front.

Should a doctor be able to forcibly compel a crackhead to undergo necessary surgery to save her babies when the crackhead refuses?


What country do you think this is?
 
2013-04-28 04:48:31 PM  
But didn't Uncle Sam just come out and tell everyone how their children are common property?
 
2013-04-28 04:52:20 PM  

doofusgumby: thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.

Kaiser contracts with Sutter for some birthing stuff. Or was that Alta Bates? Anyway there's probably some kind of partnership thing there.


Alta Bates is a Sutter hospital.

I recall they were contracted when Kaiser Oakland was being renovated several years back, but I can't find anything about a larger partnership.
 
2013-04-28 04:54:53 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: then the mom simply took the kid to the second without getting him checked out.


citation needed. Story says she took him out AMA, which means she signed paperwork and was educated to the risks associated before she was allowed, by the hospital, to leave.
Since she did this to take him to another hospital for treatment/diagnosis because she felt the child wasn't receiving proper and adequate care at the first hospital.
What I am hearing is the first hospital trying to drown out the mother's criticism by pointing at her and blaming her. It's bullshiat.
 
2013-04-28 04:55:01 PM  
His keys to the home were forcibly removed from him and the police entered the house to take the baby.

Um They better hope they had a warrant to enter the house or else somebody is going to be sued.
 
2013-04-28 04:56:02 PM  

Fissile: Step-dad was a violent head-case sheriff's officers who believed that little kids should be treated the same way as USMC recruits at Paris Island.  I'm not even going to begin telling you all the ways they farked up that kid.  He would have been much better off had CPS intervened while he was still in grade school.


That's your answer right there.

Can you imagine what would happen to a caseworker who tried to take a cop's son?
 
2013-04-28 04:56:14 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Just watched the video. They threw him down, took his keys and let themselves in?! Poor bastard probably thought he left that shiat behind in his native country. Sorry, friend. We have let you down.


Or Boston

/LA would have just filled his truck with bullets.
 
2013-04-28 04:56:48 PM  

skozlaw: Guairdean: Subbette is right to be concerned. Several years ago there was a story about a woman that objected to a planned cesarean. The doctor scheduled the procedure because it fit his schedule, not because it was medically necessary. In order to avoid unnecessary surgery, the woman left town and spent the last few weeks with her mother. She had a normal delivery there (new doctor and hospital) and returned home to find that her original doctor had gone to court and had her declared mentally incompetent. A court order was waiting to force her to have a cesarean. Doctors often put their golf game ahead of patient safety, and hospitals often put their profit margin above all else.

Her name was Amber Marlowe and the provider was Wilkes-Barre General. You can thank me for doing your homework for you later, in the meantime, I'll just point out that there have also been numerous cases of idiots resisting the advice of doctors and killing their newborns. Midwives and junkies tend to be the biggest offenders on this front.

Should a doctor be able to forcibly compel a crackhead to undergo necessary surgery to save her babies when the crackhead refuses?


An honest, caring clinician will welcome a second opinion. Comparing concerned parents to medically compromised crackheads is a bit gratuitous.
 
2013-04-28 04:57:09 PM  

netcentric: Children do not belong to their parents .  They don't own them.   Children belong to the community as a whole.

Send the billl for care to - MSNBC


You are being sarcastic but actually Parents don't own their children.   We fought a whole civil war over the issue of owning humans remember?
 
2013-04-28 04:57:37 PM  

Meatybrain: BlackMtnMan: kiwimoogle84: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.


Problem is you've lived there all your life, so you don't know any better. California is a pimple on the backside of the USA

So what? You're black.



No, I live in Colorado.  California blows.
 
2013-04-28 04:58:39 PM  

thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.


The kid had a heart condition, and was being given improper treatment elsewhere. I would think that this was enough of an emergency to warrant medical care regardless of the insurance policy. And I would hope there's some sort of law on the books regarding hospitals providing second opinions to patients in the face of potentially life threatening situations.
 
2013-04-28 04:59:15 PM  

TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13


Lol, you are shocked the lefties on this site lie continually?  If it wasn't for revisionist history, they would have nothing.
 
2013-04-28 05:04:46 PM  
badhatharry:Her name was Amber Marlowe and the provider was Wilkes-Barre General. You can thank me for doing your homework for you later, in the meantime, I'll just point out that there have also been numerous cases of idiots resisting the advice of doctors and killing their newborns. Midwives and junkies tend to be the biggest offenders on this front.

Should a doctor be able to forcibly compel a crackhead to undergo necessary surgery to save her babies when the crackhead refuses?


Here's what I don't get-- the crackhead from Salt Lake City mentioned in one of the Marlowe articles was tried for capital murder (she got off, sounds like). So if your baby dies on accident during delivery, you're a murderer. If it dies on purpose, you're okay, that's just an abortion.
 
2013-04-28 05:05:53 PM  

cyberspacedout: thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.

The kid had a heart condition, and was being given improper treatment elsewhere. I would think that this was enough of an emergency to warrant medical care regardless of the insurance policy. And I would hope there's some sort of law on the books regarding hospitals providing second opinions to patients in the face of potentially life threatening situations.


Not sure what you're getting at.
 
2013-04-28 05:08:43 PM  

Fissile: "A hearing is scheduled for Monday, April 29, 2013 on the incident which was triggered when Anna Nikolayev and her husband Alex took baby Sammy out of Sutter Memorial Hospital and sought a second opinion at Kaiser Permanente, a rival hospital, "

================================

The best reason EVAH for free market competition in health care.


I kinda agree, but I feel that the cost of health care and prescription drugs are the best reason to add free competitition. It's all tied to the health insurance scam (has anyone ever figured out the whole billing that is used for insurance...it's truly bait-and-switch). My medical insurance costs $500/mo, with a $1500/mo contribution from my employer. On top of that, I pay $30/visit and $5 min for drugs. This system needs a slap upside the head. It cost me, personal-like $15K for a bowel obstruction, without surgery (it cleared as I was being prepped...almost broke the toilet). It's just wrong.

/Rant off
 
2013-04-28 05:09:04 PM  

BlackMtnMan: Meatybrain: BlackMtnMan: kiwimoogle84: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.


Problem is you've lived there all your life, so you don't know any better. California is a pimple on the backside of the USA

So what? You're black.


No, I live in Colorado.  California blows.


Having lived in California, Nevada, Alaska, and Washington -- also work with people from all over the US -- I can say people from California are not that bad compared to the rest. Every state is full of themselves to some degree. What I love is when people from Colorado act just a douchey as Californians. Both are great places to live. But for some reason Coloradans dont know they are hypocrites.

/ LOLed when I heard a saying from Colorado: "Californians go home and take the Texans with you."
 
2013-04-28 05:09:32 PM  

Mr. Holmes: badhatharry:Her name was Amber Marlowe and the provider was Wilkes-Barre General. You can thank me for doing your homework for you later, in the meantime, I'll just point out that there have also been numerous cases of idiots resisting the advice of doctors and killing their newborns. Midwives and junkies tend to be the biggest offenders on this front.

Should a doctor be able to forcibly compel a crackhead to undergo necessary surgery to save her babies when the crackhead refuses?

Here's what I don't get-- the crackhead from Salt Lake City mentioned in one of the Marlowe articles was tried for capital murder (she got off, sounds like). So if your baby dies on accident during delivery, you're a murderer. If it dies on purpose, you're okay, that's just an abortion.


I was wondering about that. Wouldn't that just be classified a miscarriage? I mean the fetus is a fetus. You might have named it, planned for it but there is no guarantee it won't stop gestating etc or, unfortunately, be still born. Yes there are developmental differences unvialbe vs. viable. If I'm poor and pregnant, go all the pregnancy without prenatal care and have a still birth would that be a case for 'murder'/'neglect'?
 
2013-04-28 05:11:43 PM  

Maggie_Luna: Mr. Holmes: badhatharry:Her name was Amber Marlowe and the provider was Wilkes-Barre General. You can thank me for doing your homework for you later, in the meantime, I'll just point out that there have also been numerous cases of idiots resisting the advice of doctors and killing their newborns. Midwives and junkies tend to be the biggest offenders on this front.

Should a doctor be able to forcibly compel a crackhead to undergo necessary surgery to save her babies when the crackhead refuses?

Here's what I don't get-- the crackhead from Salt Lake City mentioned in one of the Marlowe articles was tried for capital murder (she got off, sounds like). So if your baby dies on accident during delivery, you're a murderer. If it dies on purpose, you're okay, that's just an abortion.

I was wondering about that. Wouldn't that just be classified a miscarriage? I mean the fetus is not a legal living person. You might have named it, planned for it but there is no guarantee it won't stop gestating etc or, unfortunately, be still born. Yes there are developmental differences unvialbe vs. viable. If I'm poor and pregnant, go all the pregnancy without prenatal care and have a still birth would that be a case for 'murder'/'neglect'?


FTFM : editing, need to do it.
 
2013-04-28 05:14:13 PM  

TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13


I'm puzzled about the numbers. What are they supposed to be? Are there missing commas and extraneous spaces? Do the numbers closest to Mitt go with him? If so, why are Obama's number all the way to the right? What's up with the decimal points? are we supposed to ignore the "58.06" and the "39.13"? Do you have a link for their source?
 
2013-04-28 05:26:45 PM  
Of course, maybe some one at the hospital had legitimate concern for the child. And that got reported like it's supposed to be.

Lots of kids die every year because the parents didn't procure necessary medical treatment. I'd rather have the state step in and prevent an unecessary death than I would have them presume all parenting is adequate.
 
2013-04-28 05:27:18 PM  

fnordfocus: doofusgumby: thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.

Kaiser contracts with Sutter for some birthing stuff. Or was that Alta Bates? Anyway there's probably some kind of partnership thing there.

Alta Bates is a Sutter hospital.

I recall they were contracted when Kaiser Oakland was being renovated several years back, but I can't find anything about a larger partnership.


Yeah that was old info from an old guy who confuses stuff that happened ten years ago with last week.

/adjusts onion
 
2013-04-28 05:30:35 PM  

MyRandomName: TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13

Lol, you are shocked the lefties on this site lie continually?  If it wasn't for revisionist history, they would have nothing.


And apparently a 60:40 split means that the county is the libbyest lib ever in GOP logic.
 
2013-04-28 05:31:51 PM  

fnordfocus: Fissile: Step-dad was a violent head-case sheriff's officers who believed that little kids should be treated the same way as USMC recruits at Paris Island.  I'm not even going to begin telling you all the ways they farked up that kid.  He would have been much better off had CPS intervened while he was still in grade school.

That's your answer right there.

Can you imagine what would happen to a caseworker who tried to take a cop's son?


======================

Nah, it wasn't that, it was the 70's (yes, I'm old)....unless the dad was Charles Manson, and the mom was Typhoid Mary, the kids stayed where they were.

As for my friend, the step-dad never adopted him.  My friend still used his biological father's surname, but his mother used husband #2's surname.  The step-dad was cold to say the least.  My friend didn't think much of him,  he was just the dude who was farking his mom.
 
2013-04-28 05:35:45 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Wow, that's horse shiat. They got a second opinion that they could take a baby home from another hospital. Its not like they took the baby home without having medical professionals look after him. Doctors don't like being questioned at all apparently. I thought good doctors would encourage second opinions.


I think the problem is the hospital didn't know that that's actually what they did.  There have been too many cases of babies getting faith "healing" and dying.  That doesn't warrant the cop's behavior, though.

destrip: And as far as the pigs forcefully taking the guy's keys and storming the house: What happened to police warrants, or is a warrant not required in a CPS case?


I doubt a warrant is required but force certainly isn't justified as a first course of action.
 
2013-04-28 05:36:54 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Before people start jumping down the throats of the doctors, I read about this story from another source.  The kid was checked into a children's ICU at the first hospital, then the mom simply took the kid to the second without getting him checked out.  The kid turned out to be fine, but just grabbing your kid without going through the paperwork will get you an automatic police/cps visit.


A visit is fine but doesn't CPS have the responsibility to do their due diligence before taking a child away from it's parents. CPS visits; 'here is the kid', 'here is the statement from another hospital', CPS person makes a call and maybe follows up. Seems a bit heavy handed to just take a child with only 1 sides story, the police should also of had the report from the officer on the previous day. The problem is that CPS and the case worker probably have little to no consequences for doing a poor job. Start suspending caseworkers without pay when the pull stuff like this and they'll stop. One would also think the family would have the right to step before a judge on Day 1 if they wanted to.
 
2013-04-28 05:50:27 PM  

Loren: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Wow, that's horse shiat. They got a second opinion that they could take a baby home from another hospital. Its not like they took the baby home without having medical professionals look after him. Doctors don't like being questioned at all apparently. I thought good doctors would encourage second opinions.

I think the problem is the hospital didn't know that that's actually what they did.  There have been too many cases of babies getting faith "healing" and dying.  That doesn't warrant the cop's behavior, though.

destrip: And as far as the pigs forcefully taking the guy's keys and storming the house: What happened to police warrants, or is a warrant not required in a CPS case?

I doubt a warrant is required but force certainly isn't justified as a first course of action.


But that's what should have been solved by the visit to the second hospital by the cop. The break down in communication between LEO and CPS is not the family's problem, but it became their problem when they took the kid out of the parents' custody. I mean, they should have checked out AMA without making a break for it, that was wrong. But they were found at another hospital, not with their thumbs up their rumps at home. And the fact that they cannot get the baby back until at least tomorrow is really farked up. And they took the baby back to the people who the parents deemed not capable of caring for their child. And incurring more medical bills at a hospital that the parents don't like.
 
2013-04-28 06:00:20 PM  

reklamfox: This story is sad for the parents, but I'm honestly a little baffled at the irresponsibility of this writer actually suggesting you shouldn't take your sick children to the hospital. That is a dangerous and reckless thing to encourage... not all hospitals are such arseholes so for the love of god people TAKE YOUR SICK CHILDREN TO THE HOSPITAL.


I take my kid to the doctor at a smallish clinic when she's sick enough to need medicine (usually it was a bad earache or RSV). The hospital is for emergencies and I wouldn't take her there unless my doctor recommended it.
Hospitals are cesspools of disease and should be avoided unless you really need a treatment that is only offered there. Not to mention the overhead is insane and you end up paying extra to cover it.
 
2013-04-28 06:05:17 PM  

balloot: This smells of anti-vaxxer/anti-doctor crowd, where they question actual medical knowledge with some BS they read on a blog and then flip out when they are ignored.  The site even mentions in the footnote some other anti-vaxxer couple that was wronged in a similar way.

I'm actually perfectly fine with anti-vaxxers being rounded up and beaten.


In Amerika, there is a violent solution to every perceived problem. I vote for you.
 
2013-04-28 06:20:48 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I wouldn't blow the pop stand without signing out, but I kind of doubt that they would have cared either way, it sounds like they had a massive case of butthurt when they left.

Its kind of scary that Sutter started talking heart surgery after having the kid two weeks and Kaiser was OK with them taking baby home. Something seems weird about that!


Alas, I need to hear a version of the story that does not come from an antivax site before I can come to any conclusions.
 
2013-04-28 06:32:17 PM  

Lt_Ryan: Start suspending caseworkers without pay when the pull stuff like this and they'll stop.


I favor "Start throwing caseworkers like this in jail..." or even "Start taking away the children of caseworkers like this...".
 
2013-04-28 06:33:05 PM  

flondrix: Alas, I need to hear a version of the story that does not come from an antivax site before I can come to any conclusions.


Good then that there are several links in this thread to other stories, huh?
 
2013-04-28 06:35:37 PM  

Gimme The Busket: Yet a teacher can find bleeding welps from neck to calves on a 4 year old, apparently caused by a beating from an extension cord, call CPS on the parents, and be told, "Sorry, there's nothing we can do here." I know this because it happened to my wife. What the fark is wrong with this country?


same as all the rest
religion
 
2013-04-28 06:37:42 PM  

MyRandomName: TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13

Lol, you are shocked the lefties on this site lie continually?  If it wasn't for revisionist history, they would have nothing.


40% Romney voters = "quite conservative."
58% Obama voters != "libby lib", unless the remaining 42% voted for Nader or a tree
 
2013-04-28 06:41:35 PM  
My husband works with guy who has a similar story to the one in TFA.  His kid was 15lbs at a year old.  The kids physician kept saying the kid was fine, but the parents kept getting worried.  Finally, the parents take the kid to a second doctor, and the second doctor calls CPS on the parents, blaming the parents for the child being malnourished.  CPS took the kid.  My husband just told me this story last night, so it's really strange to see one so similar on Fark today.  O_o
 
2013-04-28 06:51:05 PM  

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: kiwimoogle84: I can see if possibly the kiddo was a bit unstable when they took him, but if that was the case, the cops at Kaiser wouldn't have said the kid was ok. I'm just scratching my head as to who thought that parents trying to CARE for their child warrants a CPS call. It's not like they were taking the kid to a faith healer.

That's what I'm thinking. Why would the Sutter doctors trump the Kaiser doctors with CPS? And I'd be more angry that they returned the child to the care of Sutter after I felt they were doing an inadequate job. At the very least, you'd think CPS would take the parents desires into consideration and taking the child back to Kaiser.

Its not like CPS is paying for the medical care for the child, so I would be mad that Sutter is racking up more medical bills for my child when I already declined their services.

I do wonder if there is a language barrier. One of my less awesome former coworkers treats people with accents or a limited English vocabulary as if they're stupid... I feel like its bigoted to treat someone with an accent or a smaller vocabulary as if they're not smart enough to make educated decisions. Meanwhile, this guy didn't speak even a little of a second language, so who, really, is the stupid person?


It may well be that a big part of the problem is right here. When you take a baby out of a hospital (or leave, or go someplace else), you take your precious money and generous insurance carrier with you. As long as babby is under Sutter's care, guess who is dunning the parent's insurance company for all his care while he is at CPS?

And it is very very easy for a HOSPITAL to claim that the child is in danger--whereas us peons who know if the kid downstairs is getting the crap beat out of him have to call sixteen times and provide photo proof in triplicate to get this kind of action. You'll notice the cops actually visited TWICE--which means they went back the first time and told the doctors, "No, everything looks okay to us" and the doctors/bill collectors said No, no, that kid is dying! You have to go back! Cha-ching! I mean, go get that baby before it's dead!
 
2013-04-28 07:03:24 PM  

kiwimoogle84: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.


You're talking to a guy who raves about "Commies."  And no, as far as I could tell he wasn't joking or being ironic or anything.  Back away slowly, and try not to look him in the eyes.
 
2013-04-28 07:05:44 PM  
Welcome to liberal America you liberal douchbags.

Way to ruin it for the normal people.
 
2013-04-28 07:05:47 PM  

Speaker2Animals: I'd like to see something about this in some legitimate media outlet before I believe it.


Yeah me too, that's why I used this here internet that I am on to find a more reliable source. Weird, I know, but it got results.
 
2013-04-28 07:08:28 PM  

reklamfox: This story is sad for the parents, but I'm honestly a little baffled at the irresponsibility of this writer actually suggesting you shouldn't take your sick children to the hospital. That is a dangerous and reckless thing to encourage... not all hospitals are such arseholes so for the love of god people TAKE YOUR SICK CHILDREN TO THE HOSPITAL.


The website is The Healthy Home Economist.  Look at some of the other articles on the site.  It' appears to be a quack new age anti-vax website.  Well, make up your own mind but do peruse a few more articles before decided how much to trust it.
 
2013-04-28 07:11:16 PM  
I could understand police making a visit after parents removed a child from the ICU, against medical advice, and without proper paperwork.

However, throwing the father down on the ground and storming in and seizing the child?  Yeah, that's a lawsuit.  I'll bet a couple dozen attorneys in the Sacramento area are salivating at this one.

You'd think they'd do some responsible policework, show up and ask some questions like if they got a second opinion, questions that could have prevented all this.

Then again, that would involve responsible policework, instead of being all "tactical" like too many cops think they are supposed to be nowadays.
 
2013-04-28 07:12:31 PM  

BGates: Welcome to liberal America you liberal douchbags.

Way to ruin it for the normal people.


Welcome to your bitter paranoia you strawman-building conservative douchbag.

Enjoy your impotent rage and bitter misery about things you falsely attribute to liberalism.

I know I will.  CRY MOAR
 
2013-04-28 07:14:19 PM  

Guairdean: Comparing concerned parents to medically compromised crackheads is a bit gratuitous.


It's not a comparison, it's an alternative situation in which it is in the best interest of everyone involved for a medical professional to be able to compel a patient to act in their own best interest when they are unwilling or unable to do so.

You can't just hold up one nutbag in Pennsyltucky as an example of a problem without acknowledging the viable alternatives and you shouldn't be trying to scare people out of doing the sensible thing with statistical outliers.
 
2013-04-28 07:14:49 PM  

netcentric: Children do not belong to their parents .  They don't own them.   Children belong to the community as a whole.

Send the billl for care to - MSNBC


Wow, it really is fun watching the paranoid tea partiers freak out.
 
2013-04-28 07:14:49 PM  

razyjean: My husband works with guy who has a similar story to the one in TFA.  His kid was 15lbs at a year old.  The kids physician kept saying the kid was fine, but the parents kept getting worried.  Finally, the parents take the kid to a second doctor, and the second doctor calls CPS on the parents, blaming the parents for the child being malnourished.  CPS took the kid.  My husband just told me this story last night, so it's really strange to see one so similar on Fark today.  O_o


it is funny and tragic
we "want" to do right and protect the kids, but the parents who are ACTIVELY worried and trying to do right by their kids are punished.
but the people who REALLY need to lose their kids keep getting them back because "kids belong with their mothers"
or worse, no money available to house yet another kid
 
2013-04-28 07:15:14 PM  
For those hatin' on California:

dakiniland.files.wordpress.com

Sure! Let us leave, then! We'll take Oregon and Washington State along with us, form Pacifica. Or Columbia. Probably put the Capitol up in Washington State, to counterbalance the  fact California is the more populous.

We can afford being on our own. fark you.
 
2013-04-28 07:15:29 PM  
Someone just got rich, because that hospital and the local cops are going to be paying out big time.
 
2013-04-28 07:22:02 PM  

MyRandomName: TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13

Lol, you are shocked the lefties on this site lie continually?  If it wasn't for revisionist history, they would have nothing.


www.frontroomcinema.com
Ah, Freud, how we've missed you.
 
2013-04-28 07:27:38 PM  

skozlaw: Guairdean: Comparing concerned parents to medically compromised crackheads is a bit gratuitous.

It's not a comparison, it's an alternative situation in which it is in the best interest of everyone involved for a medical professional to be able to compel a patient to act in their own best interest when they are unwilling or unable to do so.

You can't just hold up one nutbag in Pennsyltucky as an example of a problem without acknowledging the viable alternatives and you shouldn't be trying to scare people out of doing the sensible thing with statistical outliers.


"One nutbag in Pennsyltucky" is an outlier, but equating crackheads with concerned parents is an "alternative situation"? Your lack of logic is astounding.
 
2013-04-28 07:33:01 PM  

ciberido: MyRandomName: TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13

Lol, you are shocked the lefties on this site lie continually?  If it wasn't for revisionist history, they would have nothing.

[www.frontroomcinema.com image 400x400]
Ah, Freud, how we've missed you.


Interesting that voting  for Obama suddenly makes a mostly rural, heavily religious, largely Republican area of the state "libby lib." If I hadn't lived in Central California all my life, I'd think they were talking about a different Sacramento County...but I know that how they vote for President and how they think the rest of the time are often quite different.
 
2013-04-28 07:34:39 PM  

Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

Sure! Let us leave, then! We'll take Oregon and Washington State along with us, form Pacifica. Or Columbia. Probably put the Capitol up in Washington State, to counterbalance the  fact California is the more populous.

We can afford being on our own. fark you.


meh
split CA into N S and Central
 
2013-04-28 07:51:32 PM  

namatad: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

Sure! Let us leave, then! We'll take Oregon and Washington State along with us, form Pacifica. Or Columbia. Probably put the Capitol up in Washington State, to counterbalance the  fact California is the more populous.

We can afford being on our own. fark you.

meh
split CA into N S and Central


Possibly a good idea, but there's no real way to figure out how to do it that doesn't have more than just a tiny whiff of gerrymandering.

Even the 'water rights' division between N and S California was hillaribad gerrymandering.

It would be easier to do away with the State level in theoretical Pacifica. Counties respond directly to the central government.
 
2013-04-28 07:51:56 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: MyRandomName: TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13

Lol, you are shocked the lefties on this site lie continually?  If it wasn't for revisionist history, they would have nothing.

And apparently a 60:40 split means that the county is the libbyest lib ever in GOP logic.


Of course that's extremely liberal. This is a larger margin than Obama won in DE, CT, or even IL. Those aren't deep blue states? It's also more than Romney won in TX, MS, or SD. Those aren't deep red states?

Not sure what any of this has to do with the terrible ordeal these parents are going through, though. I take solace in the fact that they'll end up getting 6 figures from the hospital in exchange for 5 days without their kid.
 
2013-04-28 08:15:43 PM  

Phoenix87ta: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

This is going to be just like that out-of-context "pass the bill to find out what's in it" BS, isn't it?  You're just going to keep trotting that out every opportunity you get no matter how many times someone explains it to you.


Really? Find out the amount of oil you can accidently spill on your own property before the Cali EPA steps in and fines you, then examine that statement again.
 
2013-04-28 08:16:56 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: Go to another hospital and make sure you inform  Sutter of the reason why.


This.
 
2013-04-28 08:44:39 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Interesting that voting for Obama suddenly makes a mostly rural, heavily religious, largely Republican area of the state "libby lib." If I hadn't lived in Central California all my life, I'd think they were talking about a different Sacramento County...but I know that how they vote for President and how they think the rest of the time are often quite different.


The guy can't wrap his head around the idea of conservative but doesn't hate nig *ding*
 
2013-04-28 08:47:41 PM  
Why can't someone send THEM some ricin?
 
2013-04-28 08:47:43 PM  
Make sure you go to a different hospital. Make sure that about 100,000 copies of a letter you write explaining why make it to the general public.

fark them in the asshole.
 
2013-04-28 08:48:15 PM  
I hope they sue this hospital into bankruptcy. I also hope they sue the shiat out of the police department too.
 
2013-04-28 08:51:49 PM  

Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]


I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.
 
2013-04-28 09:04:16 PM  
Sue the 1st hospital, sue the 1st hospital's Doctor, sue CPS, sue the PD, sue the cops that stepped foot onto the private property. All into destitution bankruptcy without hopes of ever pursuing another job in their respective careers they attended college for. Did I miss anything?
 
2013-04-28 09:04:29 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.


Well, a quick once over of the states should tell you that isn't significantly altering the chart. Many of the blue states listed there have huge military installations and/or bases, etc. They aren't just something that lives in republican-land. Good luck launching Naval carriers from Kansas.
 
2013-04-28 09:04:37 PM  
And another reason why we'll never reproduce in the US.
Sad that we might actually want kids, but won't risk it due to the cost/trauma, if you're not loaded enough to just throw money till it goes away.
 
2013-04-28 09:09:39 PM  

thamike: cyberspacedout: thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.

The kid had a heart condition, and was being given improper treatment elsewhere. I would think that this was enough of an emergency to warrant medical care regardless of the insurance policy. And I would hope there's some sort of law on the books regarding hospitals providing second opinions to patients in the face of potentially life threatening situations.

Not sure what you're getting at.


Oh, I meant if they had nowhere else to turn for a second opinion in an urgent care situation, I don't see why Kaiser wouldn't have seen them if they had a different insurance plan.
 
2013-04-28 09:15:01 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.


That is certainly the case for New Mexico. We have Los Alamos, Sandia National Labs, three Air Force bases, White Sands Missile Range, and a lot of indian reservations. Oh, and what isn't any of the above things is usually federal land administered by the BLM.

So, yeah, billions of dollars spent in a state with a population of 2.1 million.

One more thing, NM is a blue state, not a red state as that chart indicates. One member of congress is a R. The other two are D, as are both senators. In presidential elections, NM has been blue since 1992 (with the exception of 2004). But, the makers of the chart would hate to have the #1 state ruin their point, so it is colored red.
 
2013-04-28 09:32:58 PM  

buzzcut73: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.

That is certainly the case for New Mexico. We have Los Alamos, Sandia National Labs, three Air Force bases, White Sands Missile Range, and a lot of indian reservations. Oh, and what isn't any of the above things is usually federal land administered by the BLM.

So, yeah, billions of dollars spent in a state with a population of 2.1 million.

One more thing, NM is a blue state, not a red state as that chart indicates. One member of congress is a R. The other two are D, as are both senators. In presidential elections, NM has been blue since 1992 (with the exception of 2004). But, the makers of the chart would hate to have the #1 state ruin their point, so it is colored red.


Nobody but the truest Fark Liberals take that chart seriously. The explanations for Alaska (huge geographically making infrastructure much more expensive relative to the population) and Louisiana/Mississippi (data from 2005 is used, the year of Katrina) are equally obvious. North Dakota is another interesting case, as I'd bet that much of that money was investments into the oil shale that's led to a huge economic boom there years later. I'd be fascinated to see more recent data and see how these numbers have changed. It wouldn't surprise me if CA and NV were both net negative now.
 
2013-04-28 09:38:50 PM  

Maggie_Luna: Maggie_Luna: Mr. Holmes: badhatharry:Her name was Amber Marlowe and the provider was Wilkes-Barre General. You can thank me for doing your homework for you later, in the meantime, I'll just point out that there have also been numerous cases of idiots resisting the advice of doctors and killing their newborns. Midwives and junkies tend to be the biggest offenders on this front.

Should a doctor be able to forcibly compel a crackhead to undergo necessary surgery to save her babies when the crackhead refuses?

Here's what I don't get-- the crackhead from Salt Lake City mentioned in one of the Marlowe articles was tried for capital murder (she got off, sounds like). So if your baby dies on accident during delivery, you're a murderer. If it dies on purpose, you're okay, that's just an abortion.

I was wondering about that. Wouldn't that just be classified a miscarriage? I mean the fetus is not a legal living person. You might have named it, planned for it but there is no guarantee it won't stop gestating etc or, unfortunately, be still born. Yes there are developmental differences unvialbe vs. viable. If I'm poor and pregnant, go all the pregnancy without prenatal care and have a still birth would that be a case for 'murder'/'neglect'?

FTFM : editing, need to do it.


Yeah, you're right: a fetus is not a human being, so it's not entitled to the same rights and privileges as humans. Oddly enough though, punching a pregnant woman will get you charged with assault in some states, or some form of homicide/infanticide/feticide in other states. Apparently some men and many women have been arrested due to recent legislation:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feticide
 
2013-04-28 09:39:06 PM  
Could this explain part of the police issues? Sutter placed two calls when the parents walked out. The first was to police for kidnapping/welfare check. The officer assigned to that call visited Kaiser, was satisfied, and cleared his case. The second call went to CPS. CPS sees chiles removed AMA and calls in an emergency removal order. Those cops carried out their duty. No one ever bothered talking to each other.
 
2013-04-28 10:13:13 PM  
Should've shot the cops.

I'm not kidding.
 
2013-04-28 10:13:18 PM  
ITS NOT YER GOD-DAMNED HEALTHCARE ANYMORE

It belongs to the state and they will decide who has the right to do what.
 
2013-04-28 10:15:36 PM  

Gyrfalcon: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: kiwimoogle84: I can see if possibly the kiddo was a bit unstable when they took him, but if that was the case, the cops at Kaiser wouldn't have said the kid was ok. I'm just scratching my head as to who thought that parents trying to CARE for their child warrants a CPS call. It's not like they were taking the kid to a faith healer.

That's what I'm thinking. Why would the Sutter doctors trump the Kaiser doctors with CPS? And I'd be more angry that they returned the child to the care of Sutter after I felt they were doing an inadequate job. At the very least, you'd think CPS would take the parents desires into consideration and taking the child back to Kaiser.

Its not like CPS is paying for the medical care for the child, so I would be mad that Sutter is racking up more medical bills for my child when I already declined their services.

I do wonder if there is a language barrier. One of my less awesome former coworkers treats people with accents or a limited English vocabulary as if they're stupid... I feel like its bigoted to treat someone with an accent or a smaller vocabulary as if they're not smart enough to make educated decisions. Meanwhile, this guy didn't speak even a little of a second language, so who, really, is the stupid person?

It may well be that a big part of the problem is right here. When you take a baby out of a hospital (or leave, or go someplace else), you take your precious money and generous insurance carrier with you. As long as babby is under Sutter's care, guess who is dunning the parent's insurance company for all his care while he is at CPS?

And it is very very easy for a HOSPITAL to claim that the child is in danger--whereas us peons who know if the kid downstairs is getting the crap beat out of him have to call sixteen times and provide photo proof in triplicate to get this kind of action. You'll notice the cops actually visited TWICE--which means they went back the first time and told the doctors, "No, every ...


I think you're pretty much spot on.
 
2013-04-28 10:25:57 PM  

Fissile: As for those of you dumping on CPS, you don't know what the doctors at the hospital told them.


Oddly enough, that could have been easily remedied if they'd listened to the SECOND OPINION that was freely f*cking available to them.
 
2013-04-28 10:42:00 PM  

oren0: The explanations for Alaska (huge geographically making infrastructure much more expensive relative to the population) and Louisiana/Mississippi (data from 2005 is used, the year of Katrina) are equally obvious. North Dakota is another interesting case, as I'd bet that much of that money was investments into the oil shale that's led to a huge economic boom there years later. I'd be fascinated to see more recent data and see how these numbers have changed. It wouldn't surprise me if CA and NV were both net negative now.


The chart's stats are obviously in flux from year to year, but it's pretty representative of the truth as a broad picture of who pays the feds and who receives from them. And, yes, it's not even up for  debate that red states take more than the blue states, and they give less.

As for your example about Alaska, do you realize that the vast majority of Alaska doesn't really "have" some of the things we see as modern perks in the lower 48? Many cities outside of the south barely have road access to other local communities, some use buckets to dump their feces into isolated waste ponds (no sewer system). Alaska is much larger in size, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wyoming is "more developed" with respect to their infrastructure (outside of Fairbanks/Anchorage and that whole corridor). Of course, things cost more because of distance and mechanical failure/fatigue from temperatures, but if that should matter then we should look at things like corrosion caused from de-icers in certain states, and how that costs more money. These states didn't "ask" to exist where temps drop below 273 K.
 
2013-04-28 11:06:54 PM  
I'm amazed that farkers aren't calling this a "conspiracy theory." THIS is an example of the "tyranny" and communist Russia-esque treatment that is happening more and more in America. This is what a lot of "conspiracy theorists" are scared of. I do not have children yet, but stuff likes this makes me terrified to have one in this country.
 
2013-04-28 11:30:22 PM  

puffy999: Fissile: As for those of you dumping on CPS, you don't know what the doctors at the hospital told them.

Oddly enough, that could have been easily remedied if they'd listened to the SECOND OPINION that was freely f*cking available to them.

===================

Did this happen after the Boston bombing?  The people involved are Russians.  The media has been going on endlessly about how the Chechens who bombed Boston are "Russians".  Think your average fark-wit cop knows anything about Chechens?  Think your average fark-wit cop knows anything outside of his little cop monkeysphere?    All they needed to hear was "Russian" and it's all the excuse they needed.
 
2013-04-28 11:40:58 PM  
The problem here is Sutter Memorial.  Once it was THE place to give birth, but now it is very run-down.  In fact, it is scheduled to be torn down and replaced with housing.  It seems like the staff at Sutter Memorial are not as "quality" as they once were, and patient care has deteriorated, especially in pediatrics, as well as in the ER.  The hospital is scheduled to be torn down once Sutter finishes their addition to Sutter General Hospital, which is nearby.  Patients young and old should avoid Sutter Memorial.
 
2013-04-29 12:03:27 AM  
Although it sounds pretty damning against sutter, we really are only getting one side of the story.
 
2013-04-29 12:08:10 AM  

neongoats: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.

Well, a quick once over of the states should tell you that isn't significantly altering the chart. Many of the blue states listed there have huge military installations and/or bases, etc. They aren't just something that lives in republican-land. Good luck launching Naval carriers from Kansas.


A once over is a poor test for accuracy.  For example, a state might have an aircraft manufacturer, but they might outsource parts to different states not known for such projects.  That might constitute more spending than you realize depending on how numbers are tallied, and which numbers are being counted.  Honestly, it's a bullshiat chart that probably needs to die, because it really gives no information on the criteria being used.
 
2013-04-29 12:19:22 AM  

MadAzza: FrancoFile: I'm reading that whole thing with a 10 pound block of salt.  TFA is from a "Traditional Cultures nutrition" anti-doctor website.

Then you should click on thamike's link. Just scroll up. I had the same immediate reaction you did, not to the story itself but to the blog entry Subby posted.


In my own defense, I was given that article to read from a friend who just had HER baby at Sutter Memorial, and wanted me to see what was going on. I was pretty dumbfounded, and the thought didn't occur to me to look for a more "legitimate" news source to post. It should have, but I'm still allowed to blame baby brain, since I didn't even expect it'd get greenlit. I was too busy worrying about having my own kid there and what I can do to avoid a similar situation.
 
2013-04-29 12:45:45 AM  
LOL CPS got the wrong bad guys! It's like some guy who would rather eat grasshoppers for breakfast because he's too lazy to microwave some fried chicken!
 
2013-04-29 12:50:11 AM  

kiwimoogle84: I was too busy worrying about having my own kid there and what I can do to avoid a similar situation.


Honestly, as sucky as this situation is, as long as you trust your doc, and your better half is on top of paperwork / keeping nurses off your back, you should be ok.

Good luck, don't worry about this, and just concentrate on you and the little one.
 
2013-04-29 01:02:09 AM  

kiwimoogle84: MadAzza: FrancoFile: I'm reading that whole thing with a 10 pound block of salt.  TFA is from a "Traditional Cultures nutrition" anti-doctor website.

Then you should click on thamike's link. Just scroll up. I had the same immediate reaction you did, not to the story itself but to the blog entry Subby posted.

In my own defense, I was given that article to read from a friend who just had HER baby at Sutter Memorial, and wanted me to see what was going on. I was pretty dumbfounded, and the thought didn't occur to me to look for a more "legitimate" news source to post. It should have, but I'm still allowed to blame baby brain, since I didn't even expect it'd get greenlit. I was too busy worrying about having my own kid there and what I can do to avoid a similar situation.


A huge issue here seems to be that they didn't sign a discharge order from the NICU.  I know that many people have the mama bear instinct- "Why should I have to sign a paper to take MY baby home/to a different hospital?!" But if a baby is ADMITTED to a NICU, it's in everyone's best interest (the baby, the parents, the doctors, and the hospital) that the child not leave the NICU without documentation in the medical record.
Honestly, someone seriously dropped the ball in this case and when the 2nd hospital was contacted, that should have been the end of it.   However, the parents really shouldn't have left without signing d/c and ama slips first.  I've seen some people wait to be discharged a long time, but as soon as they threaten to leave ama and declare that they are out the door, those papers appear quick.

And if the story about that cop is true, he needs to severely reprimanded.

Best of luck on your birth.
 
2013-04-29 01:03:46 AM  

Fissile: I have to wonder how much life experience the anti-CPS people really have, or are they just plain ol' dense? I don't believe the state should micromanage families, but there are times when it's appropriate for the state to intervene.


The problem is they tend to be heavy-handed about it, assuming the reports are true rather than taking an ask questions first approach.

Your Average Witty Fark User: I hope they sue this hospital into bankruptcy. I also hope they sue the shiat out of the police department too.


No.  I see no reason the hospital should be sued.  Requesting a CPS followup on an AMA baby is quite reasonable.  The only wrongdoing here is how that followup was done.  (Unless the original hospital was somehow negligent in their care, something we can't decide from this article.)
 
2013-04-29 01:12:27 AM  
Uisce Beatha:
Since my primary is contracted with Sutter General as well, I see no reason to just transfer my care across the street. The part that bothers me is that Kaiser declared the child fit to go home, and the parents were safe caretakers. They have on record that the child was in no danger. CPS should have given the kid RIGHT BACK after reading those reports.

And yeah, I'd definitely sign AMA forms and whatnot, but it's possible that even if these people signed those forms, one doctor decided they were making a bad choice. So while I do trust my doctor, she's one of three in the practice who might deliver my kid (if for some reason my main one is delivering another baby already or whatever) and if something goes wrong and my little one has problems, I don't want some specialist or surgeon who hasn't used his tools in a while to decide surgery is the best option and try to tell me what's best. I'm far from being a doctor but I know enough medical terminology and diagnoses to know when something isn't right.

Unless I get the FULL story, and confirmation that none of the doctors I'll be working with there were involved, I'm more comfortable going to General instead. There shouldn't be a problem.
 
2013-04-29 01:21:41 AM  

o'really: Although it sounds pretty damning against sutter, we really are only getting one side of the story.


That's the way it always is.  Neither Sutter nor Kaiser can publicly make any statement at all due to privacy laws, so really the entire story is based on what the parents claim Sutter and Kaiser did.

Every story seems black and white when you only hear half of it (or in this case, one-third of it).
 
2013-04-29 01:28:25 AM  

kiwimoogle84: The part that bothers me is that Kaiser declared the child fit to go home, and the parents were safe caretakers. They have on record that the child was in no danger. CPS should have given the kid RIGHT BACK after reading those reports.


CPS plays by their own rules - rules which rarely take common sense into account.  My one brush with them was enough to figure that out.

kiwimoogle84: I'd definitely sign AMA forms and whatnot, but it's possible that even if these people signed those forms, one doctor decided they were making a bad choice.


The forms and general misunderstandings in this case seem to have been the aggravating factor - the parents being immigrants and not understanding just what the process was and what could go wrong didn't help.  Not victim blaming here, they are pretty faultless, but I imagine you and your SO will be able to be more proactive.  Actually, strike that, make it your SO - you have a big enough job ahead of you.

kiwimoogle84: Unless I get the FULL story, and confirmation that none of the doctors I'll be working with there were involved, I'm more comfortable going to General instead. There shouldn't be a problem.


Totally understandable - and you're right, as long as the docs you are familiar with are involved, you should be fine.
 
2013-04-29 01:34:59 AM  
kiwimoogle84:

Unless I get the FULL story, and confirmation that none of the doctors I'll be working with there were involved, I'm more comfortable going to General instead. There shouldn't be a problem.

Drs are not allowed to tell you if they treated a certain patient.  It's a violation of privacy.  They might say something general like they "aren't involved in that situation", but that would be bending the rules.  You may get a response of "I can't really talk about other patients in the hospital" and it wouldn't mean that your doctors were avoiding you or trying to hide something from you.
 
2013-04-29 01:43:12 AM  

cptcaveman: Could this explain part of the police issues? Sutter placed two calls when the parents walked out. The first was to police for kidnapping/welfare check. The officer assigned to that call visited Kaiser, was satisfied, and cleared his case. The second call went to CPS. CPS sees chiles removed AMA and calls in an emergency removal order. Those cops carried out their duty. No one ever bothered talking to each other.


That's nobody's duty anymore. Everyone's understaffed and overregulated, and showing initiative or concern is Not Doing Your Job.
 
2013-04-29 01:45:19 AM  

Mikeyworld: Fissile: "A hearing is scheduled for Monday, April 29, 2013 on the incident which was triggered when Anna Nikolayev and her husband Alex took baby Sammy out of Sutter Memorial Hospital and sought a second opinion at Kaiser Permanente, a rival hospital, "

================================

The best reason EVAH for free market competition in health care.

I kinda agree, but I feel that the cost of health care and prescription drugs are the best reason to add free competitition. It's all tied to the health insurance scam (has anyone ever figured out the whole billing that is used for insurance...it's truly bait-and-switch). My medical insurance costs $500/mo, with a $1500/mo contribution from my employer. On top of that, I pay $30/visit and $5 min for drugs. This system needs a slap upside the head. It cost me, personal-like $15K for a bowel obstruction, without surgery (it cleared as I was being prepped...almost broke the toilet). It's just wrong.

/Rant off


Did you have a hamster lodged up there?

Dr. Goldshnoz: Sue the 1st hospital, sue the 1st hospital's Doctor, sue CPS, sue the PD, sue the cops that stepped foot onto the private property. All into destitution bankruptcy without hopes of ever pursuing another job in their respective careers they attended college for. Did I miss anything?


Only to clarify, You make sure to sue not only the 'institutions' i.e. Hospital, PD and CPS but to throw a lawsuit at the "Top Dogs" of each institution and any 'employee' of theirs that caused the situation in the first place! When the people that work at these institutions realize that they are responsible for what the whole of the organization does perhaps they will use better investigating standards in future cases.

/rant off
 
2013-04-29 02:01:19 AM  

archeochick: kiwimoogle84:

Unless I get the FULL story, and confirmation that none of the doctors I'll be working with there were involved, I'm more comfortable going to General instead. There shouldn't be a problem.

Drs are not allowed to tell you if they treated a certain patient.  It's a violation of privacy.  They might say something general like they "aren't involved in that situation", but that would be bending the rules.  You may get a response of "I can't really talk about other patients in the hospital" and it wouldn't mean that your doctors were avoiding you or trying to hide something from you.


Well I know that- it's a HIPAA violation. I was just thinking if more info came to light as to disciplinary action. Besides, it's highly unlikely that an OB and a maternal-fetal specialist would have much to do with a five month old. It's just scary. I know of surgeons who just like cutting people open, and I'll have none of that.
 
2013-04-29 02:19:20 AM  

Uisce Beatha: kiwimoogle84: The part that bothers me is that Kaiser declared the child fit to go home, and the parents were safe caretakers. They have on record that the child was in no danger. CPS should have given the kid RIGHT BACK after reading those reports.

CPS plays by their own rules - rules which rarely take common sense into account.  My one brush with them was enough to figure that out.

kiwimoogle84: I'd definitely sign AMA forms and whatnot, but it's possible that even if these people signed those forms, one doctor decided they were making a bad choice.

The forms and general misunderstandings in this case seem to have been the aggravating factor - the parents being immigrants and not understanding just what the process was and what could go wrong didn't help.  Not victim blaming here, they are pretty faultless, but I imagine you and your SO will be able to be more proactive.  Actually, strike that, make it your SO - you have a big enough job ahead of you.

kiwimoogle84: Unless I get the FULL story, and confirmation that none of the doctors I'll be working with there were involved, I'm more comfortable going to General instead. There shouldn't be a problem.

Totally understandable - and you're right, as long as the docs you are familiar with are involved, you should be fine.


As said SO, I agree with her as far as changing hospitals but I don't honestly think it's worth making a big deal about. I don't think our little cupcake will have any contact with doctors that a sick older baby would. That being said, there's only a problem if our child was sick, and I'm well versed in hospital administration myself.

Plus the language barrier thing that was mentioned by someone earlier- it's possible these parents just didn't know what questions to ask, or interpreted answers incorrectly. There's no way to know.

That being said, it would be kind of funny to see them try to take my child from me, in a twisted kind of way. I'd need to see paperwork and warrants and have a chance to make phone calls at the very least. I'd end up in handcuffs for obstruction of their misguided "justice," so let's just hope it never comes to that.
 
2013-04-29 02:23:29 AM  

destrip: Parents / legal guardians don't "own" kids like property


They do, in exactly the same way slaves were owned, other than the right to profit from their sale (but children can still be transferred, either temporarily by simple agency, or permanently by disclaiming "parental rights"). Anything else a slave owner was allowed to do -- control where the person lives, force them to work, forbid them from working, control their education, control their food, control their housing, control their personal property, determine who and if they can marry, determine their religion, have them returned by law enforcement if they try to leave, etc. -- is just as true of children as it was of slaves.

You can argue there are better reasons for treating children this way, but a child's legal inequality is almost identical to that of a slave.

And as far as the pigs forcefully taking the guy's keys and storming the house: What happened to police warrants, or is a warrant not required in a CPS case?

They don't need a warrant if there's a court order to remove the children from the household. CPS files for such an order, which they have to convince a judge to issue, much like a warrant. Police also don't need a warrant if they believe there is an eminent threat to the children, just like they wouldn't need a warrant if they heard screaming.
 
2013-04-29 02:29:33 AM  

Sweeney Bodd: Uisce Beatha: kiwimoogle84: The part that bothers me is that Kaiser declared the child fit to go home, and the parents were safe caretakers. They have on record that the child was in no danger. CPS should have given the kid RIGHT BACK after reading those reports.

CPS plays by their own rules - rules which rarely take common sense into account.  My one brush with them was enough to figure that out.

kiwimoogle84: I'd definitely sign AMA forms and whatnot, but it's possible that even if these people signed those forms, one doctor decided they were making a bad choice.

The forms and general misunderstandings in this case seem to have been the aggravating factor - the parents being immigrants and not understanding just what the process was and what could go wrong didn't help.  Not victim blaming here, they are pretty faultless, but I imagine you and your SO will be able to be more proactive.  Actually, strike that, make it your SO - you have a big enough job ahead of you.

kiwimoogle84: Unless I get the FULL story, and confirmation that none of the doctors I'll be working with there were involved, I'm more comfortable going to General instead. There shouldn't be a problem.

Totally understandable - and you're right, as long as the docs you are familiar with are involved, you should be fine.

As said SO, I agree with her as far as changing hospitals but I don't honestly think it's worth making a big deal about. I don't think our little cupcake will have any contact with doctors that a sick older baby would. That being said, there's only a problem if our child was sick, and I'm well versed in hospital administration myself.

Plus the language barrier thing that was mentioned by someone earlier- it's possible these parents just didn't know what questions to ask, or interpreted answers incorrectly. There's no way to know.

That being said, it would be kind of funny to see them try to take my child from me, in a twisted kind of way. I'd need to see paperwork and warrants and have a chance to make phone calls at the very least. I'd end up in handcuffs for obstruction of their misguided "justice," so let's just hope it never comes to that.


Oh come on honey, you know we have a strict "no punching law enforcement" policy around here... :) besides, we don't have money for bail, so you'd best behave yourself.

Maybe I'll see if my doc is contracted with any of the Mercy hospitals around here and avoid Sutter altogether.
 
2013-04-29 02:35:27 AM  

Warlordtrooper: His keys to the home were forcibly removed from him and the police entered the house to take the baby.

Um They better hope they had a warrant to enter the house or else somebody is going to be sued.


CPS would have had an emergency warrant issued, that's basically how they work.
 
2013-04-29 03:05:46 AM  

puffy999: oren0: The explanations for Alaska (huge geographically making infrastructure much more expensive relative to the population) and Louisiana/Mississippi (data from 2005 is used, the year of Katrina) are equally obvious. North Dakota is another interesting case, as I'd bet that much of that money was investments into the oil shale that's led to a huge economic boom there years later. I'd be fascinated to see more recent data and see how these numbers have changed. It wouldn't surprise me if CA and NV were both net negative now.

The chart's stats are obviously in flux from year to year, but it's pretty representative of the truth as a broad picture of who pays the feds and who receives from them. And, yes, it's not even up for  debate that red states take more than the blue states, and they give less.

As for your example about Alaska, do you realize that the vast majority of Alaska doesn't really "have" some of the things we see as modern perks in the lower 48? Many cities outside of the south barely have road access to other local communities, some use buckets to dump their feces into isolated waste ponds (no sewer system). Alaska is much larger in size, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wyoming is "more developed" with respect to their infrastructure (outside of Fairbanks/Anchorage and that whole corridor). Of course, things cost more because of distance and mechanical failure/fatigue from temperatures, but if that should matter then we should look at things like corrosion caused from de-icers in certain states, and how that costs more money. These states didn't "ask" to exist where temps drop below 273 K.


Alaska has about the same population as Vermont, so presumably their tax bills are similar as well. Which do you think spends more on infrastructure? It's fine if you say "Alaska is in the red to the government due to climate and size", but blaming it on Alaska's politics is a non-sequitur.
 
2013-04-29 03:16:38 AM  

kiwimoogle84: MadAzza: FrancoFile: I'm reading that whole thing with a 10 pound block of salt.  TFA is from a "Traditional Cultures nutrition" anti-doctor website.

Then you should click on thamike's link. Just scroll up. I had the same immediate reaction you did, not to the story itself but to the blog entry Subby posted.

In my own defense, I was given that article to read from a friend who just had HER baby at Sutter Memorial, and wanted me to see what was going on. I was pretty dumbfounded, and the thought didn't occur to me to look for a more "legitimate" news source to post. It should have, but I'm still allowed to blame baby brain, since I didn't even expect it'd get greenlit. I was too busy worrying about having my own kid there and what I can do to avoid a similar situation.


I didn't meant to criticize. :-)

Like thamike pointed out, the blog you linked to did include a link to a "legit" news story.
 
2013-04-29 04:34:22 AM  

Uisce Beatha: The forms and general misunderstandings in this case seem to have been the aggravating factor


What's an aggravating factor is in modern medicine the forms are all that is important.  The patient, their care, isn't important.  You come in to see a doctor, your squacking is a distraction to the task at hand, getting the insurance company to kick down some cash.  To do that they need documentation to give to insurance company. Nothing you say is actually important.
 
2013-04-29 05:14:33 AM  

cyberspacedout: thamike: cyberspacedout: thamike: I'm still wondering why, if they have Kaiser Permanente, they didn't go there in the first place.  Or why, if they don't have Kaiser Permanente, they were given a consultation there.

The kid had a heart condition, and was being given improper treatment elsewhere. I would think that this was enough of an emergency to warrant medical care regardless of the insurance policy. And I would hope there's some sort of law on the books regarding hospitals providing second opinions to patients in the face of potentially life threatening situations.

Not sure what you're getting at.

Oh, I meant if they had nowhere else to turn for a second opinion in an urgent care situation, I don't see why Kaiser wouldn't have seen them if they had a different insurance plan.


i have Kaiser and they need a Kaiser card and a photo ID before they let you into Urgent Care (hence "not emergency room")  It's closed to non-members.  Granted, I'm sure if a non-member crawled up to the front door with stab wounds, he'd get treated.  Second opinions, not so much.  And who would ask Urgent Care for a pediatric heart murmur opinion?

I think maybe one of them had gotten kaiser from work, but the other had their GP from Sutter, who insisted they see such and such OB/GYN at Sutter, and they had never bothered with Kaiser until they had a problem.
 
2013-04-29 06:24:25 AM  

oren0: buzzcut73: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.

That is certainly the case for New Mexico. We have Los Alamos, Sandia National Labs, three Air Force bases, White Sands Missile Range, and a lot of indian reservations. Oh, and what isn't any of the above things is usually federal land administered by the BLM.

So, yeah, billions of dollars spent in a state with a population of 2.1 million.

One more thing, NM is a blue state, not a red state as that chart indicates. One member of congress is a R. The other two are D, as are both senators. In presidential elections, NM has been blue since 1992 (with the exception of 2004). But, the makers of the chart would hate to have the #1 state ruin their point, so it is colored red.

Nobody but the truest Fark Liberals take that chart seriously. The explanations for Alaska (huge geographically making infrastructure much more expensive relative to the population) and Louisiana/Mississippi (data from 2005 is used, the year of Katrina) are equally obvious. North Dakota is another interesting case, as I'd bet that much of that money was investments into the oil shale that's led to a huge economic boom there years later. I'd be fascinated to see more recent data and see how these numbers have changed. It wouldn't surprise me if CA and NV were both net negative now.


More recent data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state
 
2013-04-29 08:51:32 AM  
It's entirely possible that the kid had dual coverage. HMO with Sutter Med Grp under Mom, Kaiser under dad. It happens.
 
2013-04-29 09:58:54 AM  

PunGent: oren0: buzzcut73: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.

That is certainly the case for New Mexico. We have Los Alamos, Sandia National Labs, three Air Force bases, White Sands Missile Range, and a lot of indian reservations. Oh, and what isn't any of the above things is usually federal land administered by the BLM.

So, yeah, billions of dollars spent in a state with a population of 2.1 million.

One more thing, NM is a blue state, not a red state as that chart indicates. One member of congress is a R. The other two are D, as are both senators. In presidential elections, NM has been blue since 1992 (with the exception of 2004). But, the makers of the chart would hate to have the #1 state ruin their point, so it is colored red.

Nobody but the truest Fark Liberals take that chart seriously. The explanations for Alaska (huge geographically making infrastructure much more expensive relative to the population) and Louisiana/Mississippi (data from 2005 is used, the year of Katrina) are equally obvious. North Dakota is another interesting case, as I'd bet that much of that money was investments into the oil shale that's led to a huge economic boom there years later. I'd be fascinated to see more recent data and see how these numbers have changed. It wouldn't surprise me if CA and NV were both net negative now.

More recent data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state


"Decrease in defense expenditure has been a large key to overall changes in expenditure, both in salaries for bases and for procurement of defense."

That means the chart is meaningless in terms of the desired effect.  Also consider this.  Many people pay taxes in one state while working, then retire in another state, that negative applied to the latter shouldn't count towards the total since the retirees are merely getting back out what they put in, at a different place and time.
 
2013-04-29 10:32:18 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: PunGent: oren0: buzzcut73: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

I'm curious about that chart.  Because federal spending doesn't mean state assistance, it could be funding for military bases and other such things that benefit the country as a whole.

That is certainly the case for New Mexico. We have Los Alamos, Sandia National Labs, three Air Force bases, White Sands Missile Range, and a lot of indian reservations. Oh, and what isn't any of the above things is usually federal land administered by the BLM.

So, yeah, billions of dollars spent in a state with a population of 2.1 million.

One more thing, NM is a blue state, not a red state as that chart indicates. One member of congress is a R. The other two are D, as are both senators. In presidential elections, NM has been blue since 1992 (with the exception of 2004). But, the makers of the chart would hate to have the #1 state ruin their point, so it is colored red.

Nobody but the truest Fark Liberals take that chart seriously. The explanations for Alaska (huge geographically making infrastructure much more expensive relative to the population) and Louisiana/Mississippi (data from 2005 is used, the year of Katrina) are equally obvious. North Dakota is another interesting case, as I'd bet that much of that money was investments into the oil shale that's led to a huge economic boom there years later. I'd be fascinated to see more recent data and see how these numbers have changed. It wouldn't surprise me if CA and NV were both net negative now.

More recent data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

"Decrease in defense expenditure has been a large key to overall changes in expenditure, both in salaries for bases and for procurement of defense."

That means the chart is meaningless in terms of the desired effect.  Also consider this.  Many people pay taxes in one state while working, then retire in another st ...


You're not one of those people who think defense spending magically doesn't count against federal expenditures, are you?

It ain't like elves are keeping all those aircraft carriers afloat...
 
2013-04-29 10:33:34 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Just watched the video. They threw him down, took his keys and let themselves in?! Poor bastard probably thought he left that shiat behind in his native country. Sorry, friend. We have let you down.


Wonder if they had a warrant?  And even if so, there was no reason to use excessive force.

Seems like a lot of cops are just itching for an opportunity to use force when it is not necessary.
 
2013-04-29 10:34:21 AM  
I'm not known for hoping this,  but I'm hoping some lawyer is seeing mega-$$$$$$ here, and some of it can be scrounged off , ending up paying for this kid's future education.... all of it...
 
2013-04-29 10:57:44 AM  

Sweeney Bodd: Plus the language barrier thing that was mentioned by someone earlier- it's possible these parents just didn't know what questions to ask, or interpreted answers incorrectly. There's no way to know.


Yeah, that's definitely a possibility if they don't speak good English.

PunGent: You're not one of those people who think defense spending magically doesn't count against federal expenditures, are you?

It ain't like elves are keeping all those aircraft carriers afloat...


The point is that assigning it to a particular state doesn't mean much.
 
2013-04-29 12:13:20 PM  

PunGent: You're not one of those people who think defense spending magically doesn't count against federal expenditures, are you?


If you think the construction and operational cost of an aircraft carrier should contribute to any metric designed to ascertain the amount of "leeching" a state does, then you're amazingly stupid.  Things like that serve the interests of the U.S. as a whole.

Do you think Florida was leeching off the rest of us every time they launched a space shuttle?
 
2013-04-29 12:49:17 PM  

TheSwissNavy: Azlefty: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid

Actually it is Sacramento County since they are in charge of CPS, the county is quite conservative like the rest of the Central Valley, to get the libby libs you have to go at least over to Solano County for that

You pathetic liar...
BARACK OBAMA (DEM) . . . . . . . 300,503 58.06 MITT ROMNEY (REP). . . . . . . . 202,514 39.13


Not wanting Romney as president != liberal.
 
2013-04-29 01:00:33 PM  
SUBBY:

Don't worry, this was NOT labor and delivery ward. I can personally attest to the unmitigated awesomeness of the labor & delivery ward at Sutter Memorial Hospital. I can't even begin to describe how fantastic it is.
 
2013-04-29 01:20:21 PM  

teeny: SUBBY:

Don't worry, this was NOT labor and delivery ward. I can personally attest to the unmitigated awesomeness of the labor & delivery ward at Sutter Memorial Hospital. I can't even begin to describe how fantastic it is.


Yeah, the mister keeps telling me I'm overreacting. I blame the hormones. But it's just scary. I know I can mouth off if I get scared and if my kid was sick and they weren't giving me answers, I'd have a similar reaction. Though I do have a very good lawyer's number close at hand- I would ask my legal rights before making such a drastic move as they did.
 
2013-04-29 01:52:35 PM  

kiwimoogle84: teeny: SUBBY:

Don't worry, this was NOT labor and delivery ward. I can personally attest to the unmitigated awesomeness of the labor & delivery ward at Sutter Memorial Hospital. I can't even begin to describe how fantastic it is.

Yeah, the mister keeps telling me I'm overreacting. I blame the hormones. But it's just scary. I know I can mouth off if I get scared and if my kid was sick and they weren't giving me answers, I'd have a similar reaction. Though I do have a very good lawyer's number close at hand- I would ask my legal rights before making such a drastic move as they did.


I sure as hell would like to know the name of the vindictive little nurse/administrator that made the first call. I wouldn't take my kids there for heart issues...and CPS are assholes no matter where you go. I had a run-in with them when a pediatrician decided that my son was malnourished and reported me, even though I'm the one that made the appointment to discuss my concern about his weight.

Again, you couldn't ask for better doctors in labor and delivery, though. OR nurses. (Keep an eye out for Kathleen or Jillian.)   I have a daughter named after Kathleen (Who is also my sister-in-law)  and if I hadn't had a bunch of boys I would have used the name Jillian for another girl.
 
2013-04-29 02:18:27 PM  

kiwimoogle84: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.


I was born and raised in California. I didn't realize how awful that state is until I moved away. Living somewhere else really opened my eyes.
 
2013-04-29 02:25:28 PM  

Summercat: For those hatin' on California:

[dakiniland.files.wordpress.com image 800x588]

Sure! Let us leave, then! We'll take Oregon and Washington State along with us, form Pacifica. Or Columbia. Probably put the Capitol up in Washington State, to counterbalance the  fact California is the more populous.

We can afford being on our own. fark you.


No you won't. We don't want you either.
 
2013-04-29 02:40:59 PM  
So a farkup medical team doesn't want to be outed as a farkup medical team, so they call CPS because somebody left AMA...to another hospital. That is completely unethical, among other things. And of course, as usual, the police can be counted on to be armed thugs that act outside their authority. What a ridiculous situation.
 
2013-04-29 02:55:35 PM  

Falin: I was born and raised in California. I didn't realize how awful that state is until I moved away. Living somewhere else really opened my eyes.


Elaborate please. Is this because of political differences? Did you not like the cost of living? Was it not beautiful? Too much bureacracy? Where in California were you living? Your blanket statement doesn't inform anyone of anything.
 
2013-04-29 03:35:01 PM  
Best toe the line citizen
 
2013-04-29 03:46:12 PM  

Falin: kiwimoogle84: jehovahs witness protection: Well, it IS Kalifornia. That baby belongs to the community. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, um, there's nothing wrong with California. Lived here my whole life and I love it. It has its problems but a few stupid comments in no way represent the views of the whole state. This is not what happened here, if you'd RTFA.

I was born and raised in California. I didn't realize how awful that state is until I moved away. Living somewhere else really opened my eyes.


I have lived in other places briefly. I always come back to California. Besides, there's a huge difference between the politics of Sacramento and El Dorado counties and the politics most everywhere else. Berkeley and southern CA are WAY different politically
 
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