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(Telegraph)   Best way to fix crappy English schools? Give them to the Catholics   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 75
    More: Interesting, Catholics, British Schools of America, Department for Education, secular education, Humanist associations, state education, Ofsted, for-profit school  
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3907 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2013 at 4:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-27 01:23:47 PM
[Forbes Insoluble Guy jpg]

HA! HA!
Atheists can't teach.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-04-27 03:06:52 PM
Threatening that will certainly cause some sphincters to clench.
 
2013-04-27 03:09:54 PM
I think this lady needs to hook up with Klenginem so that their children may one day conquer the world.
 
2013-04-27 04:00:19 PM
That'll go over well.

thesuperjesus.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-27 04:03:04 PM
Sure, there will be will be molestations and sadistic nuns with rulers, but by God, those kids will know how to SPELL!
 
2013-04-27 04:56:46 PM
This is a violation of the 1st Amendment.  Separation of church and....  oh, wait.  Never mind.
 
2013-04-27 04:57:20 PM
Maybe we need to figure out why those schools are working but the public schools are not?  If the difference is a better understanding of history/Literature because of an emphasis on teaching the bible and Latin as they are the bases of modern culture and language, I will eat my hat.
 
2013-04-27 04:59:19 PM
"Billy, you'd best do well in the standardized test else it's the buggery for you."

It's all about the proper motivation.
 
2013-04-27 04:59:49 PM

Thisbymaster: Maybe we need to figure out why those schools are working but the public schools are not?  If the difference is a better understanding of history/Literature because of an emphasis on teaching the bible and Latin as they are the bases of modern culture and language, I will eat my hat.


Article is about England, my experience is in the US.  YMMV.

Catholic schools don't take crap from the students.  Catholic schools set higher standards.  Catholic schools are able to attract teachers that love teaching more than they love unions, paperwork, and PC bullshiat.
 
2013-04-27 05:00:55 PM
Because new residents doing their schooling in a language that's new to them don't tend to go to Catholic schools?
 
2013-04-27 05:04:49 PM
I endured grades 1-4 in Catholic school before I escaped to public schools. The ritual abuse, forced to kneel on linoleum floors, the beatings, etc.  I think that explains my fascination with BDSM....
 
2013-04-27 05:06:35 PM

Son of Thunder: [Forbes Insoluble Guy jpg]

HA! HA!
Atheists can't teach.


I knew there was a reason why I have you marked as "douche bag psychologist, christian"
 
2013-04-27 05:09:00 PM
Because if there's one thing the English know, it's that you should leave Catholics around children all day.
 
2013-04-27 05:10:13 PM

mark12A: I endured grades 1-4 in Catholic school before I escaped to public schools. The ritual abuse, forced to kneel on linoleum floors, the beatings, etc.  I think that explains my fascination with BDSM....


What year was that, because you evidently had a totally different experience at catholic school than I did.  Probably not wise to judge today's Catholics by your childhood's standards.
 
2013-04-27 05:11:34 PM
I went to Catholic school until I moved for like the 8th time (so...9th grade-ish?).

Wasn't bad. I did well in school and got a scholarship to a university and I'm atheist. Sooo....kind of win?

I had some really awesome nuns as teachers. And some non-awesome ones.

I live in Detroit now. If I had a kid, they'd go to Catholic school. Because Detroit.
 
2013-04-27 05:11:36 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

Approves
 
2013-04-27 05:12:28 PM
I'm a product of Catholic education and I think I benefitted highly from Catholic school, but I'm ambivalent about a plan for Catholic influence over state schools. The parents who send their kids to those schools didn't make the choice to have religious influence on their education, or they did and actively chose not to have a religious component.
 
2013-04-27 05:14:36 PM
From what I know of friends who went through catholic school, and all internet anecdotal evidence, I'd say the fastest way to churn out agnostics and atheists is to send them to Catholic school.
 
2013-04-27 05:17:14 PM
Because Catholic schools in Ireland were such shining examples, weren't they?

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1900120,00.html
 
2013-04-27 05:19:13 PM

SamFlagg: From what I know of friends who went through catholic school, and all internet anecdotal evidence, I'd say the fastest way to churn out agnostics and atheists is to send them to Catholic school.


The problem with that is the Catholic Guilt is near impossible to get rid of.
 
2013-04-27 05:25:16 PM

Thisbymaster: Maybe we need to figure out why those schools are working but the public schools are not?  If the difference is a better understanding of history/Literature because of an emphasis on teaching the bible and Latin as they are the bases of modern culture and language, I will eat my hat.


Catholic schools are allowed to select which students get in. State schools are not. It's very easy to get above average results if you are allowed to filter out the below average students.
 
2013-04-27 05:25:38 PM

Thisbymaster: If the difference is a better understanding of history/Literature because of an emphasis on teaching the bible and Latin as they are the bases of modern culture and language, I will eat my hat.


The big difference is that you can kick out your shiatty students.  The expectations are different, so kids react differently, as well.  And if you're a farkup?  They find your parents, fast.  If your parents won't come to them - they go to your parents.

There was no corporal punishment at my Catholic school growing up.  Still, you didn't fark up, like set things on fire or bully other kids, because there would be hell to pay from everybody you encountered.
 
2013-04-27 05:28:34 PM
I endured grades 1-4 in Catholic school before I escaped to public schools. The ritual abuse, forced to kneel on linoleum floors, the beatings, etc.  I think that explains my fascination with BDSM....

What year was that, because you evidently had a totally different experience at catholic school than I did.  Probably not wise to judge today's Catholics by your childhood's standards.


1965-1968, St. Madelines in Ridley Park Pennsylvania

In second grade I ended up in the hospital TWICE to get my eardrums pieced to drain fluid build up because I had a teacher who liked to make us kneel on the floor at the back of the room, with our hands folded in front, while she slapped us in the head hard enough to knock us over.

My mom complained to Mother Superior. Nothing was done. I guess it was considered character building back then.

Another kid was told by the teacher that he was trash, and made him stand in a trashcan during lunch, and encouraged the rest of us to dump our trash on him at lunch time.

Good times, good times....
 
2013-04-27 05:29:20 PM
Yanno, all in all, this does seem like a bad idea, I agree, but there is something to be said for being allowed to crack some spoiled, jerkoff, quasi literate kid across the chops just hard enough to get his attention.  You have to get their attention.  Hand wringing doesn't seem to work.
 
2013-04-27 05:30:47 PM

mark12A: In second grade I ended up in the hospital TWICE to get my eardrums pieced to drain fluid build up because I had a teacher who liked to make us kneel on the floor at the back of the room, with our hands folded in front, while she slapped us in the head hard enough to knock us over.

My mom complained to Mother Superior. Nothing was done. I guess it was considered character building back then.

Another kid was told by the teacher that he was trash, and made him stand in a trashcan during lunch, and encouraged the rest of us to dump our trash on him at lunch time.


This, however, is flat out sadistic abuse.
 
2013-04-27 05:32:49 PM
I don't care how good they teach other subjects my kids will NEVER go to a christian school and be subjected to their view of science.
 
2013-04-27 05:35:13 PM
This headline is offending liberal sensitivities worldwide.
 
2013-04-27 05:36:53 PM

Asphyxium: I don't care how good they teach other subjects my kids will NEVER go to a christian school and be subjected to their view of science.


There are 3 MDs and 1 PhD in my family.  All are Christians.  You're post is inane.  Go jerk off to an Obama poster.
 
2013-04-27 05:36:56 PM
Another cool thing was the playground was sex segregated at recess. Invariably, some boys would run through the girls section, teasing girls. They would be apprehended, have pretty bows affixed to their heads, and marched from room to room in the afternoon, with a Nun announcing, "Look at the pretty girls we found at recess!"

If you didn't get your homework done, the Nuns would routinely threaten to take you to the basement of the Convent, where you would be chained to a desk and forced to do homework all weekend long....

Yep, lots of kinks were founded those days...
 
2013-04-27 05:38:17 PM

Asphyxium: I don't care how good they teach other subjects my kids will NEVER go to a christian school and be subjected to their view of science.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-27 05:39:19 PM

Son of Thunder: [Forbes Insoluble Guy jpg]

HA! HA!
Atheists can't teach.


I think it's more of a public school problem.
 
2013-04-27 05:39:40 PM
public school kids in a Catholic organization run school. those children are in for a world of sick twisted holier than thou humiliation and a painful experience. regardless of what those childrens faiths may be they will be treated like second class pond scum on a daily basis. because they are public school kids in a Catholic setting. speaking from personal experience. i pity those children.
 
2013-04-27 05:43:06 PM
cache2.allpostersimages.com
 
2013-04-27 05:43:24 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: Asphyxium: I don't care how good they teach other subjects my kids will NEVER go to a christian school and be subjected to their view of science.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 340x480]


You guys are confusing Southern Baptists with Catholics.  Catholic schools teach actual science with science fairs and everything else.  When I switched to public schools in the tenth grade, my new classmates were learning the same science stuff that we were taught in seventh grade.
 
2013-04-27 05:44:03 PM

Asphyxium: I don't care how good they teach other subjects my kids will NEVER go to a christian school and be subjected to their view of science.


Aside from some condom-related propaganda efforts in the third world, the Catholics aren't really very "anti-science".  The readily admit that the earth is billions of years old, humans evolved from single-cell organisms (with god's help but they don't really beat you over the head with that part), and global warming will kill us all if we don't do something about it.

You're really stereotyping here.
 
2013-04-27 05:45:17 PM
Might be worth noting that in the UK a Public School is not a school run by the state - it's a type of exclusive private school.
 
2013-04-27 05:45:20 PM

Asphyxium: I don't care how good they teach other subjects my kids will NEVER go to a christian school and be subjected to their view of science.


This is in the UK. Creationism, intelligent design etc are more or less unknown "theories" here. I doubt their science curriculum is any different to the state schools or non religious private schools. They have to take the same exams for a start, which they'd fail big time if they answered with creationist crap.
 
2013-04-27 05:49:21 PM

SamFlagg: From what I know of friends who went through catholic school, and all internet anecdotal evidence, I'd say the fastest way to churn out agnostics and atheists drunks and sluts is to send them to Catholic school.


FTFY.
 
2013-04-27 05:50:46 PM

Asphyxium: I don't care how good they teach other subjects my kids will NEVER go to a christian school and be subjected to their view of science.


Know how I know you don't know anything about Catholics?

There is one reason the students in these schools do better and it has nothing to do with only letting in smart kids or beating them to learn.   The ONLY reason is that since the parents are PAYING, in general they actually care how their kid is doing.  That's it.  There are some DUMB kids in Catholic schools but you will never hear the parents say "Your problem, make him learn" when a teacher mentions missed homework or the kid not being prepared for a test.

The teachers are, on average no better or worse, the books and supplies are usually at least 10 years older than what you will find in a public school.  The facilities are average at best, asphalt "playground" at worst.  But the parents care about their kids education and that was, is and ALWAYS will be the number one predictor or success in school.
 
2013-04-27 06:07:53 PM
Wow. I didn't realize that almost everyone had a negative experience with Carholic schools. My family is pretty non-religious. I liked many of my teachers. Yeah, the Bible thing sucked, but I read a lot and it wasn't much different than Beowulf or anything. I did have to filter out bullshiat, though...but not aggressively. I guess I got lucky and had some pretty tolerant, good teachers. I went to a public high school from 10th grade on, and adapted fine.

There are many valid, serious arguments stated in the thread, though.

I wish there was some kind of atheist private school run by nuns.
 
2013-04-27 06:09:17 PM
^and yes, I was taught science with dinosaurs sans man and years measured in millions.
 
2013-04-27 06:11:11 PM

Thisbymaster: Maybe we need to figure out why those schools are working but the public schools are not?  If the difference is a better understanding of history/Literature because of an emphasis on teaching the bible and Latin as they are the bases of modern culture and language, I will eat my hat.


Um I had Jewish and Native American friends who went to Catholic schools because theirs wanted to put them in special ed/just sucked. They both got scholarships and both said the half hour of catechism a week didn't affect them any.

Actually most of my friends and my SO who went to Catholic schools are now agnostic or atheist (and the SO wasn't even Jesuit taught - Christian Brothers).

ymmv. I stayed in the church longer than most of my friends and I was public school all the way. If I wasn't in the gifted program my Mom would've found the money for Catholic though.
 
2013-04-27 06:12:31 PM
Ooo those darned Catholics really get my dander up. Im so angry now Im in a tizzy.
 
2013-04-27 06:14:23 PM
What would /r/atheist do if confronted with this horrible situation?
 
2013-04-27 06:24:23 PM
I just typed a whole thing on my iPad that I'm pretty sure got lost into cyberspace....or maybe it'll appear again in a second.

Anyway, let me try again.

I teach third grade in a Catholic elementary school in Brooklyn.  I took the job because there is a hiring freeze in the city, and Long Island schools have roughly a million applicants for every job posting.  I swore I would only stay there for a year or two and then move on to public school.  Every once in a while, I may send my resume to someone I know, but the truth is, I really love my school and the environment where I teach.  I am not religious in the slightest, but I don't mind the religious aspects of my school.  I usually teach religion lessons as ELA or as character education.

As far as the difference between Catholic and public schools, the only difference in the curriculum is that I do have to teach religion.  The math is the same, the reading is the same, the social studies is the same, and contrary to popular belief on Fark, the science is the same.

In fact, if I had to guess, I would say we teach more social studies and science since public schools are very much concerned about their math and ELA test scores that they only prepare for those state exams and ignore the rest of the subjects.

As someone mentioned upthread, it is true that we have some control over our students which very well could explain why our school consistently does better than the nearby public schools on state tests, but in these economic times, if you can write a tuition check, we will accept you.  That being said, generally speaking, parents willing to pay for their child's education is usually much more involved in the schooling process and that should not go unnoticed.

Also, we only give the state exams in 4, 6, and 8th grades.  So my grade, third, while technically a "testing" grade isn't one in my school.  I can teach the curriculum anyway I want in any time frame I want.  We are going to write a newspaper in June since there is a much stronger emphasis on nonfiction texts in the new common core curriculum.  Public schools would never be able to do something like that.

We do have higher standards, but we also follow the IEPs that students may get from the DOE.

Do I think I will be in Catholic school for the rest of my life?  I don't know if I could afford it, but maybe.  It isn't the same as some of you may remember when nuns could do whatever they wanted and no parents would dare question the system.
 
2013-04-27 06:35:33 PM
4.bp.blogspot.comonce again.
 
2013-04-27 06:37:46 PM

mikaloyd: What would /r/atheist do if confronted with this horrible situation?


OK, I haven't been around for a while, so fill me in. Do we care now? Is there that much crossover?
 
2013-04-27 06:45:30 PM
Perhaps you should start by giving the current teachers yard sticks and permission to thwack the students.
 
2013-04-27 06:53:53 PM

megarian: I went to Catholic school until I moved for like the 8th time (so...9th grade-ish?).

Wasn't bad. I did well in school and got a scholarship to a university and I'm atheist. Sooo....kind of win?

I had some really awesome nuns as teachers. And some non-awesome ones.

I live in Detroit now. If I had a kid, they'd go to Catholic school. Because Detroit.


If a child gets a good edimication in a religious school, they can be a educated adult who can choose to not be religious. Someone who get a crappy education in a secular school is going to have a harder time choosing to become educated.
 
2013-04-27 07:10:49 PM
What kinds of schools were Pink Floyd singing about?
 
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