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(Daily Mail)   Belief in God can treat depression, plagues of locusts   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 218
    More: Interesting, god, psychiatric treatment, mental disorders, Columbia University in New York, San Francisco General Hospital, McLean Hospital, McLean Hospital in Belmont, prayers  
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2551 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2013 at 2:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-26 02:26:09 PM
Ignorance is bliss.
 
2013-04-26 02:27:46 PM
Done in one.
 
2013-04-26 02:29:36 PM
Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.
 
2013-04-26 02:49:21 PM

cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.


Yeah, but I can only imagine how a depressed person that turns to religion will feel if something very bad happens to them. Probably worse off than they started, if they expected a deity to look out for them.

It's better to give sick people real treatment.
 
2013-04-26 02:49:29 PM
Did subby misspell "cause"?
 
2013-04-26 02:49:33 PM
Opiate of the masses.

Trade one psychological affliction for another.
 
2013-04-26 02:49:44 PM
In other news, Big Pharma starts class action suit against God.
 
2013-04-26 02:49:56 PM
derecjones.com

I'll stick with marijuana, thank you.
 
2013-04-26 02:50:04 PM
 
2013-04-26 02:50:22 PM
Lots of ad-hoc hypotheses already in the thread.  I'll go ahead and toss mine on the pile.  The religious center of the brain makes people suggestible(thus religious).  Psychotherapy is just suggesting things to make people feel better.

Experiment to verify my hypothesis: placebos work better on more religious people to treat pain.
 
2013-04-26 02:50:33 PM
Belief in a god-thing can relieve you of all kinds of things, like the need to think for yourself or exercise any personal responsibility for yourself and your own future. Why would someone who has delegated their worries to their imaginary friends have any reason to feel depressed?
 
2013-04-26 02:50:52 PM
If god didn't want me to kill myself why would he make me feel so shiatty.

/Daily Fail
 
2013-04-26 02:51:15 PM
Any form of hope can treat depression.
 
2013-04-26 02:51:20 PM
Flying Spaghetti Monster brings me happiness.
 
2013-04-26 02:51:25 PM
I just believe God cures the depression I have from believing in him. Mysterious ways, biatches.
 
2013-04-26 02:51:50 PM
One could relate that to death as well. No matter how shiatty things are, we are all eventually going to die, so FARK IT.
 
2013-04-26 02:53:05 PM
 
2013-04-26 02:53:22 PM
This thread will have three types of people:

Religion demands I kill people, therefore it's bad.

Religion helps make me smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass from my lawn.

Meh.
 
2013-04-26 02:54:21 PM
Flying Spaghetti Monster fills me with joy and carbohydrates.
 
2013-04-26 02:54:36 PM
Hey, whatever it takes for you to deal. Just don't be afraid to keep it to yourself.
 
2013-04-26 02:54:51 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: [derecjones.com image 280x390]

I'll stick with marijuana, thank you.


This is FARK, don't you know religion is the cause of all that's evil in humanity.

Who is this heretic of a submitter???  Burn the non-believer!
 
2013-04-26 02:55:18 PM

miss diminutive: Done in one.


^I second this^
 
2013-04-26 02:55:57 PM
i.imgur.com


Thanks for the tax free cash you idiots!
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-26 02:55:58 PM

cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.


Exactly. George Carlin was right about this point. Religion was originally used as a way to keep the uncivilized in line, but today it can be used to keep people away from vices, keep suicide rates down, and in general keep people more cordial.

Some people need that boost in faith to stay away from addictions, or to keep pushing ahead with a shiatty life, or to stay with their spouse and kids when life gets rough. Not everyone has the same mental fortitude or morality, and uses religion as a crutch to keep them in line. It's a necessity for a lot of folks, nothing wrong with that.
 
2013-04-26 02:58:15 PM

rnatalie: Opiate of the masses.

Trade one psychological affliction for another.


Not so much as an opiate, more of a counterirritant.
 
2013-04-26 02:58:35 PM
Worship cats instead. That way when calamity strikes you just hit 'em with a squirt from the old water bottle and cosmic balance is restored.
 
2013-04-26 02:58:40 PM
In case you were wondering why the pillars of major religions all happen to coincide with typical symptoms of mental disorders like OCD (obsessive cleansing, rituals for entering buildings or consuming food, emphasis on numerology) and their followers are more likely to embrace superstitious thinking typical of schizoaffective disorder and have an extra hour and a half:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WwAQqWUkpI
 
2013-04-26 02:58:43 PM
Man I want to believe in a deity, an afterlife, anything!  Most days I'm ok but sometimes late at night when trying to sleep, my stupid brain turns to thoughts of mortality followed by a sinking feeling of despair as I realize that before I know it, I'll be winked out of existence.  I'm actually jealous of religious people in that regard, the comfort it must bring the to know that there is something after, that it's not the end.  I'm not even that old, I've still got half my life left (hopefully), but I keep imagining myself in my twilight years clinging and fighting tooth and nail to stay alive one more day.

Oh well, I figure I'll eventually adapt and cope, my brain will just reach acceptance and all that.  Either that or maybe the dementia that runs in my family will make it so I don't even realize what's happening.
 
2013-04-26 03:00:37 PM
Well, yeah, NSS.  If I could displace all my problems on some "magic sky being" instead of realizing my life is created by my own actions and is my own to therefore correct to what I would like... I'd be a fark lot less depressed too.
 
2013-04-26 03:01:06 PM

WTF Indeed: This thread will have three types of people:

Religion demands I kill people, therefore it's bad.

Religion helps make me smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass from my lawn.

Meh.


I don't mean to quibble, but those are not "kinds of people".
 
2013-04-26 03:01:18 PM
...remove demons
kill vampires

and so on...


Whatever, enjoy your faith...do no harm to others, we're good.
 
2013-04-26 03:02:01 PM
It sure sounds like everyone is euphoric in this thread.
 
2013-04-26 03:02:01 PM
Shame that the gatekeepers to all this anti-depressive and prayer-healing miracle-work are such raging assholes to so many of the people who could actually use the help.
 
2013-04-26 03:02:23 PM

quiotu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

Exactly. George Carlin was right about this point. Religion was originally used as a way to keep the uncivilized in line, but today it can be used to keep people away from vices, keep suicide rates down, and in general keep people more cordial.

Some people need that boost in faith to stay away from addictions, or to keep pushing ahead with a shiatty life, or to stay with their spouse and kids when life gets rough. Not everyone has the same mental fortitude or morality, and uses religion as a crutch to keep them in line. It's a necessity for a lot of folks, nothing wrong with that.


Not really they end up trading one addiction for another see religious addiction.
 
2013-04-26 03:02:26 PM
Are other people different than me in that they can just decide to believe in something?  Isn't that kind of like deciding you can fly?  It's all great until you try to jump off the roof.
 
2013-04-26 03:03:58 PM

WTF Indeed: This thread will have three types of people:

Religion demands I kill people, therefore it's bad.

Religion helps make me smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass from my lawn.

Meh.


Meh back at you and your False Choice Dilemma.

I find that a PERSONAL belief in a higher being alleviates the insecurities that come from thoughts about death and our overall lonesome purposeless existence.

What people will try to pin ORGANIZED religion on is a different story... as human beings use any too for power as well as good (think of a kitchen knife... one of the most common weapons in domestic aggression)
  It's a false choice to say that a belief in G-d does make anyone smarter, taller, richer, etc. or destroys...  It provides a grounding and hope during tough times for the individual.  And as the article goes to show, helps with depression.

Hmmmm... I wonder why people ALL OVER THE WORLD have religions...  I wonder if there's something GOOD to it.
 
2013-04-26 03:04:09 PM
The guy let his son be nailed to a cross. That always makes me feel better.
 
2013-04-26 03:04:17 PM

Cytokine Storm: Man I want to believe in a deity, an afterlife, anything!  Most days I'm ok but sometimes late at night when trying to sleep, my stupid brain turns to thoughts of mortality followed by a sinking feeling of despair as I realize that before I know it, I'll be winked out of existence.  I'm actually jealous of religious people in that regard, the comfort it must bring the to know that there is something after, that it's not the end.  I'm not even that old, I've still got half my life left (hopefully), but I keep imagining myself in my twilight years clinging and fighting tooth and nail to stay alive one more day.

Oh well, I figure I'll eventually adapt and cope, my brain will just reach acceptance and all that.  Either that or maybe the dementia that runs in my family will make it so I don't even realize what's happening.


Enjoy every moment.

Cliche but...
 
2013-04-26 03:04:39 PM
This would help explain some of the farked up believers I know.
 
2013-04-26 03:06:41 PM

sheep snorter: [i.imgur.com image 585x379]


Thanks for the tax free cash you idiots!
[i.imgur.com image 400x300]


Burn!
BURN THE NON-BELIEVER!

Religion = Stupid
Look at my anecdotal examples... Durrrr.
85% of the world are idiots, only me, so smart!
 
2013-04-26 03:08:06 PM
It can also treat peasant uprisings, logical thought and the concept of free will.
 
2013-04-26 03:10:12 PM

uncleacid: The guy let his son be nailed to a cross. That always makes me feel better.


Well, especially when  your God carries a hammer.
 
2013-04-26 03:11:43 PM
There might be type 5 entities that create universes, but to worship one.......Would you worship someone from the Geek Squad?
 
2013-04-26 03:12:11 PM
Your new purpose in life is to judge other people and pester the living crap out of them... oh, and don't forget to follow-zee-orders!
 
2013-04-26 03:12:17 PM

jso2897: uncleacid: The guy let his son be nailed to a cross. That always makes me feel better.

Well, especially when  your God carries a hammer.


static.comicvine.com
 
2013-04-26 03:12:59 PM
Oh horseshiat it can.
 
2013-04-26 03:14:25 PM

SovietCanuckistan: One could relate that to death as well. No matter how shiatty things are, we are all eventually going to die, so FARK IT.


May the Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you, and thank you for the TF.
 
2013-04-26 03:15:29 PM

NostroZ: sheep snorter: [i.imgur.com image 585x379]


Thanks for the tax free cash you idiots!
[i.imgur.com image 400x300]

Burn!
BURN THE NON-BELIEVER!

Religion = Stupid
Look at my anecdotal examples... Durrrr.
85% of the world are idiots, only me, so smart!


Feeling a little persecuted today, are we?
Don't worry, Bucky - we won't feed you to the lions.
You'd probably give them indigestion.
 
2013-04-26 03:16:26 PM
Religion has done more to get me depressed than it has ever helped me be happy. I'm afraid I may be broken if this article is unbiased, and filled with good scientific facts.
 
2013-04-26 03:17:21 PM
Christmas presents make me happy. So do Christmas cookies.
 
2013-04-26 03:18:48 PM
NostroZ:
I find that a PERSONAL belief in a higher being alleviates the insecurities that come from thoughts about death and our overall lonesome purposeless existence.


Speak for yourself.  My existence is neither purposeless nor lonesome, and I am not at all insecure about the thought of dying.  It's going to happen, and in 10,000 years, this will all be just another fossil layer.  I won't care, I won't know, because I'll be dead.

I'd bet that nearly all of the "insecurity that comes from thoughts about death" stems from a belief that consciousness actually survives, and things will be unpleasant.  I don't think that consciousness survives death, so the fact that I will someday be dead doesn't bother me. I won't realize it.


Hmmmm... I wonder why people ALL OVER THE WORLD have religions...  I wonder if there's something GOOD to it.

People all over the world have herpes and stinky armpits too. That's not necessarily a good recommendation for something.
 
2013-04-26 03:19:21 PM
Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?
 
2013-04-26 03:20:18 PM
I've had chronic life long depression. I also don't believe in god. I've often wondered if having an invisible friend to lean on would help.
 
2013-04-26 03:20:30 PM
Ponies also treat depression....
 
2013-04-26 03:20:58 PM
I would rather be unhappy than deluded.
 
2013-04-26 03:22:43 PM

cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.


That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.
 
2013-04-26 03:23:27 PM

NostroZ: Ego edo infantia cattus: [derecjones.com image 280x390]

I'll stick with marijuana, thank you.

This is FARK, don't you know religion is the cause of all that's evil in humanity.

Who is this heretic of a submitter???  Burn the non-believer!


Since the article specifically states it doesn't matter what religion, it's a fair assumption that just believing things will be better and someone is looking out for you is the motivating force here, not religion.

"And more than 30 per cent of patients claiming no specific religious affiliation still saw the same benefits in treatment if their belief in God was rated as moderately or very high."

I guess religion still sucks.
 
2013-04-26 03:25:19 PM

mutterfark: Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?


You could make the argument that isn't exactly the case, fwiw. Higher power creates man (through evolution... duh), man turns out to be the burnout junkie of intelligent life, higher power sends moral teachers (Jesus, Buddha, Hillel, etc.). It's not beyond man's ability to comprehend the lessons of such teachers, and they explicitly teach that such conduct (murder, etc.) is forbidden.
 
2013-04-26 03:26:03 PM

Katolu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.


Here's your fire suit. You'll be needing it.
 
2013-04-26 03:28:37 PM
All Jesus asks is for you to believe. He didn't say go to church, or be baptized, or do this or that.. but to just believe by simple faith. But for some reason that's too much for people.

/that's the whole of the message of the Bible for us gentiles
//don't let religious hypocrites deter you
 
2013-04-26 03:29:20 PM

Marine1: mutterfark: Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?

You could make the argument that isn't exactly the case, fwiw. Higher power creates man (through evolution... duh), man turns out to be the burnout junkie of intelligent life, higher power sends moral teachers (Jesus, Buddha, Hillel, etc.). It's not beyond man's ability to comprehend the lessons of such teachers, and they explicitly teach that such conduct (murder, etc.) is forbidden.


That undermines the whole omnipotent thing, though.
 
2013-04-26 03:29:36 PM
Prayers Don't Help Heart Surgery Patients; Some Fare Worse When Prayed For

patients who knew that others were praying for them fared worse than those who did not receive such spiritual support, or who did but were not aware of it.

Isn't the heart the feeling organ LOL a conservative newspaper prints BS but Thou shalt not bear false witness
 
2013-04-26 03:29:52 PM

jso2897: Feeling a little persecuted today, are we?
Don't worry, Bucky - we won't feed you to the lions.
You'd probably give them indigestion.


That's funny... because the Romans used to feed Christians and other religious folk to the lions.
Hilarious.  Now back to farking that chicken of "all of humanities problems stem from religion".
I always find that the simplest answers are the truest.  Like, "why are people bad?  Because G-d, errr, I mean religion did it!"
 
2013-04-26 03:32:32 PM
I have a lot of issues with religion, but one thing that I have a major issue with is the misquoting of Karl Marx.

About religion, he said:

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The subtext is that it is pretty much likely that the proletariat will turn to religion to make their lives less "nasty, brutish, and short" (thanks, Hobbes), and that's fine. I mean, what do you expect?

(Without other ideas and drives, that is.)
 
2013-04-26 03:32:35 PM

FloydA: Hmmmm... I wonder why people ALL OVER THE WORLD have religions... I wonder if there's something GOOD to it.

People all over the world have herpes and stinky armpits too. That's not necessarily a good recommendation for something.


I believe you're confusing a SOCIAL TOOL (religion) for BIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION of the human body and interaction with bacteria.

You're comparing apples to oranges, friend.
 
2013-04-26 03:34:03 PM

mutterfark: Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?


You're view of G-d is highly interventionist.
You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man.  For evil resides in the hearts of men.
 
2013-04-26 03:34:44 PM
i.imgur.com

I'm just going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes.
 
2013-04-26 03:36:17 PM

NostroZ: jso2897: Feeling a little persecuted today, are we?
Don't worry, Bucky - we won't feed you to the lions.
You'd probably give them indigestion.

That's funny... because the Romans used to feed Christians and other religious folk to the lions.
Hilarious.  Now back to farking that chicken of "all of humanities problems stem from religion".
I always find that the simplest answers are the truest.  Like, "why are people bad?  Because G-d, errr, I mean religion did it!"


That's patently absurd. There is no single cause for all that's bad in the world. A lot that is "bad" in the world isn't even evil - it's just contrary to human happiness. It may be conveniently self-aggrandizing to believe that anyone who disagrees with you believes the absurd - but it's my understanding that Jesus warned Christians against the sin of self-aggrandizement - or as he called it, "pride".
 
2013-04-26 03:36:38 PM

StaleCoffee: NostroZ: Ego edo infantia cattus: [derecjones.com image 280x390]

I'll stick with marijuana, thank you.

This is FARK, don't you know religion is the cause of all that's evil in humanity.

Who is this heretic of a submitter???  Burn the non-believer!

Since the article specifically states it doesn't matter what religion, it's a fair assumption that just believing things will be better and someone is looking out for you is the motivating force here, not religion.

"And more than 30 per cent of patients claiming no specific religious affiliation still saw the same benefits in treatment if their belief in God was rated as moderately or very high."

I guess religion still sucks.


Huh?  Wait... This is like saying, people who are good at Math were happier in life and could get through tougher situations.  So math is good... but organized math... where it is taught... a school... that still sucks?

You say the teachings are good, but school is awful?
Maybe you just need a different school there buddy... just because you're school sucks at teaching you math, don't mean mine did.
 
2013-04-26 03:36:47 PM

NostroZ: FloydA: Hmmmm... I wonder why people ALL OVER THE WORLD have religions... I wonder if there's something GOOD to it.

People all over the world have herpes and stinky armpits too. That's not necessarily a good recommendation for something.

I believe you're confusing a SOCIAL TOOL (religion) for BIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION of the human body and interaction with bacteria.

You're comparing apples to oranges, friend.


People all over the world had slaves?

People all over the world keep women under blankets?

People all over the world hate people that aren't the same as they are?

People all over the world frequently engaged in large scale, organized violence for personal gain?

People all over the world are assholes?

People all over the world recognize Coca-Cola and McDonalds?

People all over the world are dancing on the ceiling?
 
2013-04-26 03:38:04 PM

NostroZ: StaleCoffee: NostroZ: Ego edo infantia cattus: [derecjones.com image 280x390]

I'll stick with marijuana, thank you.

This is FARK, don't you know religion is the cause of all that's evil in humanity.

Who is this heretic of a submitter???  Burn the non-believer!

Since the article specifically states it doesn't matter what religion, it's a fair assumption that just believing things will be better and someone is looking out for you is the motivating force here, not religion.

"And more than 30 per cent of patients claiming no specific religious affiliation still saw the same benefits in treatment if their belief in God was rated as moderately or very high."

I guess religion still sucks.

Huh?  Wait... This is like saying, people who are good at Math were happier in life and could get through tougher situations.  So math is good... but organized math... where it is taught... a school... that still sucks?

You say the teachings are good, but school is awful?
Maybe you just need a different school there buddy... just because you're school sucks at teaching you math, don't mean mine did.


No, it's like being told any answer you come up with is cool, so you can feel good about assuming the cosine of yellowjackets is plasma.
 
2013-04-26 03:38:39 PM
Numerous studies show that religious people people live longer, happier lives.

Assuming the religion you follow is benign (doesn't make you live like a monk, doesn't make you oppress others, etc.) it's a win-no lose proposition. You win with the comfort you get from *knowing* there's a wonderful afterlife waiting for you, that the universe cares about you, etc., and it's no lose because when you die your mind dies, and you never get humiliated by finding out there's nothing but oblivion ahead. So what if an afterlife is a fantasy. It really doesn't hurt you to believe in it, and it brings much comfort.

Knowing that you're only a ripple in the sea of time is not very comforting. You rise up out of the background noise, you have shape and height for the briefest instant, than you sink back down into the background noise from which you came. That's all there is.
 
2013-04-26 03:40:28 PM
obvious tag surrendered
 
2013-04-26 03:41:43 PM

jso2897: NostroZ: jso2897: Feeling a little persecuted today, are we?
Don't worry, Bucky - we won't feed you to the lions.
You'd probably give them indigestion.

That's funny... because the Romans used to feed Christians and other religious folk to the lions.
Hilarious.  Now back to farking that chicken of "all of humanities problems stem from religion".
I always find that the simplest answers are the truest.  Like, "why are people bad?  Because G-d, errr, I mean religion did it!"

That's patently absurd. There is no single cause for all that's bad in the world. A lot that is "bad" in the world isn't even evil - it's just contrary to human happiness. It may be conveniently self-aggrandizing to believe that anyone who disagrees with you believes the absurd - but it's my understanding that Jesus warned Christians against the sin of self-aggrandizement - or as he called it, "pride".


I'm being absurd to illustrate a point.  That extremist statements, often made on Fark and the internet, that religion is responsible for all our wars, evil, etc. are ABSURD, since religion and subsequently a belief in G-d is a POSITIVE for the human experience.

I did not mean to be prideful and certainly did not mean to self-aggrandize... I do not have all the answers, but I know that religion can and often is used as a tool for good.  Conversely, any tool of man can be used for evil.

This article points out the GOOD that a belief in G-d can give to a person.
This runs contrary to the popular online notion of G-d is BAD.
 
2013-04-26 03:41:45 PM
A KKK, conservative, US marine, creationist, pro-life Westboro-Baptist-Church goer and homophobic gun shop-owner professor was teaching a class on Theology.
"Before the class begins, you must put your hands together and pray to Jesus Christ, and accept that you are sinners and that he is your lord and savior"
At this moment, an enlightened, euphoric, and intelligent atheist, who never had a girlfriend because he was such a nice guy, and had spent some time making quotes and was immersed in the teachings of Darwin stood up, and took off his walmart fedora that his mom got him for his birthday..
"How old is this fedora?"
The narrow-minded professor sneered in a rather republican manner and cockily replied "5000 years, you bigoted atheist"
"Wrong. It's 4.6 billion years old. Last night I was doing weed since it was so healthy and stuff and cures cancer, and while I was high, I realized that God didn't exist and the Bible was a lie"
The professor was visibly shaken and dropped his copy of the King James Bible. He stormed out of the room sobbing uncontrollably, partly because of him being proven wrong, partly because a priest molested him as a kid and those memories were resurfacing, and partly because the atheist was so damn awesome looking in his fedora that he might now be gay.
The student's applauded and all registered democrat that day and renounced all phony religions. A cat named "Mao Tse-tsung" ran into the room and sat on a copy of Darwin's Origin of The Species and shed a tear. Several biology text-books were read, and Neil Degrasse Tyson showed up and was elected president.
The professor later quit to spend more time at his favorite gun range, where his gun accidently shot backwards and killed him because guns are dangerous.
 
2013-04-26 03:41:53 PM
God's doing a heck of a job.  With friends like him, who needs enemies?
 
2013-04-26 03:42:11 PM

mark12A: Numerous studies show that religious people people live longer, happier lives.

Assuming the religion you follow is benign (doesn't make you live like a monk, doesn't make you oppress others, etc.) it's a win-no lose proposition. You win with the comfort you get from *knowing* there's a wonderful afterlife waiting for you, that the universe cares about you, etc., and it's no lose because when you die your mind dies, and you never get humiliated by finding out there's nothing but oblivion ahead. So what if an afterlife is a fantasy. It really doesn't hurt you to believe in it, and it brings much comfort.

Knowing that you're only a ripple in the sea of time is not very comforting. You rise up out of the background noise, you have shape and height for the briefest instant, than you sink back down into the background noise from which you came. That's all there is.


Yeah, but it's such a farking waste of time. I have better things to do on Sunday morning and better things to do with my money.
 
2013-04-26 03:42:46 PM

NostroZ: mutterfark: Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?

You're view of G-d is highly interventionist.
You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man.  For evil resides in the hearts of men.


Or my view of god was influenced by my upbringing as a Catholic. I actually read the the Bible. Such gems as 'before you were born I knew ye' and Original Sin kind of bug me. Or god stopping the Earth's rotation to help his chosen people commit genocide.
But I don't believe in God or gods. Mankind has no problem committing heinous acts, especially when organized in groups of like thinking people.
 
2013-04-26 03:44:28 PM

StaleCoffee: You say the teachings are good, but school is awful?
Maybe you just need a different school there buddy... just because you're school sucks at teaching you math, don't mean mine did.

No, it's like being told any answer you come up with is cool, so you can feel good about assuming the cosine of yellowjackets is plasma.


Religion is a left brain activity.  It is intuitive and therefore is not subject to the same rules of 1+1=2, but still follows emotional rules.
What you're describing is a right brain logic chain, which, while useful, is only HALF of how us humans experience the world.
 
2013-04-26 03:45:15 PM

NostroZ: mutterfark: Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?

You're view of G-d is highly interventionist.
You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man.  For evil resides in the hearts of men.


All "evil" may reside in the heart of man - but not all suffering comes from evil. Hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and tornadoes are not evil. Neither are cancer, birth defects, or polio. Suffering and pain are endemic to existence - and if God created existence, then He created pain and suffering, too. I don't question your truth AS your truth - just don't go thinking that YOUR truth is THE truth - cause it isn't.
 
2013-04-26 03:45:47 PM

mark12A: Knowing that you're only a ripple in the sea of time is not very comforting. You rise up out of the background noise, you have shape and height for the briefest instant, than you sink back down into the background noise from which you came. That's all there is.


"Hey. Do you mind if I tell you a story? One you might not have heard. All the elements in your body were forged many many millions of years ago in the heart of a faraway star that exploded and died. That explosion scattered those elements across the desolations of deep space. After so, so many millions of years, these elements came together to form new stars and new planets. And on and on it went. The elements came together and burst apart, forming shoes and ships and sealing wax and cabbages and kings. Until, eventually, they came together to make you. You are unique in the universe. "
 
2013-04-26 03:45:55 PM

jso2897: NostroZ: jso2897: Feeling a little persecuted today, are we?
Don't worry, Bucky - we won't feed you to the lions.
You'd probably give them indigestion.

That's funny... because the Romans used to feed Christians and other religious folk to the lions.
Hilarious.  Now back to farking that chicken of "all of humanities problems stem from religion".
I always find that the simplest answers are the truest.  Like, "why are people bad?  Because G-d, errr, I mean religion did it!"

That's patently absurd. There is no single cause for all that's bad in the world. A lot that is "bad" in the world isn't even evil - it's just contrary to human happiness. It may be conveniently self-aggrandizing to believe that anyone who disagrees with you believes the absurd - but it's my understanding that Jesus warned Christians against the sin of self-aggrandizement - or as he called it, "pride".


"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." - Shakespear
 
2013-04-26 03:46:41 PM

mark12A: Knowing that you're only a ripple in the sea of time is not very comforting. You rise up out of the background noise, you have shape and height for the briefest instant, than you sink back down into the background noise from which you came. That's all there is.


I think that's pretty farking amazing.

I am the ultimate ass kicking progeny of hundreds of millions of years of evolution. In me there are stars, dinosaurs, and oceans. I can use technology to manipulate the fundamental forces of the universe thanks to the accumulated knowledge and striving of those who came before me and leave the world slightly advanced in that same accumulation so many others contributed, greater or smaller, before me, or I can harness the vast powers and influence to jack off in my spare time.

What the fark is so amazing about not having any idea what living for eternity is going to be like except that it's supposed to be awesome? If you can't find wonder in the world as it is I can't imagine how you could spend eternity living with the same guy whose crowning achievement was sticking you in the world you find lacking otherwise. It's like building a giant lego fortress with strippers and an endless font of Sam Adams and saying it lacks because the builder knocked off for lunch.
 
2013-04-26 03:48:33 PM

Katolu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.


True.  My mother, a very rational woman, was also very strong in her faith.  Of course we are Episcopalians.

/free will and moral choice.
 
2013-04-26 03:48:40 PM

NostroZ: jso2897: NostroZ: jso2897: Feeling a little persecuted today, are we?
Don't worry, Bucky - we won't feed you to the lions.
You'd probably give them indigestion.

That's funny... because the Romans used to feed Christians and other religious folk to the lions.
Hilarious.  Now back to farking that chicken of "all of humanities problems stem from religion".
I always find that the simplest answers are the truest.  Like, "why are people bad?  Because G-d, errr, I mean religion did it!"

That's patently absurd. There is no single cause for all that's bad in the world. A lot that is "bad" in the world isn't even evil - it's just contrary to human happiness. It may be conveniently self-aggrandizing to believe that anyone who disagrees with you believes the absurd - but it's my understanding that Jesus warned Christians against the sin of self-aggrandizement - or as he called it, "pride".

I'm being absurd to illustrate a point.  That extremist statements, often made on Fark and the internet, that religion is responsible for all our wars, evil, etc. are ABSURD, since religion and subsequently a belief in G-d is a POSITIVE for the human experience.

I did not mean to be prideful and certainly did not mean to self-aggrandize... I do not have all the answers, but I know that religion can and often is used as a tool for good.  Conversely, any tool of man can be used for evil.

This article points out the GOOD that a belief in G-d can give to a person.
This runs contrary to the popular online notion of G-d is BAD.


That's true. And a kid believing in Santa Claus may cause him to behave better. And that's all well and good, and nobody but a few intolerant jerks say it isn't. But it doesn't mean that there aren't other things that work just as well, or that Santa Claus is necessary for a child to be well behaved - same deal with "God". God is A truth - it may be YOUR truth - but it isn't THE truth.
 
2013-04-26 03:49:51 PM

NostroZ: StaleCoffee: You say the teachings are good, but school is awful?
Maybe you just need a different school there buddy... just because you're school sucks at teaching you math, don't mean mine did.

No, it's like being told any answer you come up with is cool, so you can feel good about assuming the cosine of yellowjackets is plasma.

Religion is a left brain activity.  It is intuitive and therefore is not subject to the same rules of 1+1=2, but still follows emotional rules.
What you're describing is a right brain logic chain, which, while useful, is only HALF of how us humans experience the world.


Nope. You don't get to do that. I'm responding to your math analogy. You can take your next busted ass analogy and sit on it until you address the first one. Unless you'd like to just admit it was stupid from the beginning and doesn't work, then I can strip down your left-brain thing there.
 
2013-04-26 03:51:22 PM
you will all understand it, by and by.
 
2013-04-26 03:53:17 PM

mutterfark: You're view of G-d is highly interventionist.
You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man. For evil resides in the hearts of men.

Or my view of god was influenced by my upbringing as a Catholic. I actually read the the Bible. Such gems as 'before you were born I knew ye' and Original Sin kind of bug me. Or god stopping the Earth's rotation to help his chosen people commit genocide.
But I don't believe in God or gods. Mankind has no problem committing heinous acts, especially when organized in groups of like thinking people.


Right and religion has NOTHING to do with it.
The Mongols were open to all religions in their kingdom, while themselves practicing a regional worship of their motherland.  They were organized around the principle of speedy conquest.  During the transition of the Ming Dynasty in China 6.7% of the WORLD population was killed.  Religion did not cause this... a desire for power did.  Same thing can with Mao & Stalin in 20th century.

Catholicism is certainly a tough religion to reconcile, since it presents the dogma in such a black/white format.  Original sin. Masturbation evil.  Pooping is evil... etc. etc.  Silly in my opinion to say that man was created in the image of god, but his penis & pooper are evil.  Huh?  What does that say about the image of god?  Who are we to assume these things about our body that is agreed is supposedly holy.  etc. etc.

But, if you look past the edifice that has been built by man around the message of G-d, you can find much good.
Moses offered salvation and guidance that was beyond idolatry.  Jesus has offered redemption and love.
These are powerful and good themes.  Only because people have taken the good and placed themselves as brokers in between does not mean you should reject the product all together.
 
2013-04-26 03:53:21 PM

mark12A: Numerous studies show that religious people people live longer, happier lives.

Assuming the religion you follow is benign (doesn't make you live like a monk, doesn't make you oppress others, etc.) it's a win-no lose proposition. You win with the comfort you get from *knowing* there's a wonderful afterlife waiting for you, that the universe cares about you, etc., and it's no lose because when you die your mind dies, and you never get humiliated by finding out there's nothing but oblivion ahead. So what if an afterlife is a fantasy. It really doesn't hurt you to believe in it, and it brings much comfort.

Knowing that you're only a ripple in the sea of time is not very comforting.


Really? Comforts the living shiat out of me. Maybe we find different things comforting.
 
2013-04-26 03:53:53 PM
God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.
 
2013-04-26 03:55:08 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: God's doing a heck of a job.  With friends like him, who needs enemies?


I do. Any asshole can have friends. But, enemies? I wear them like decorations of honor.
 
2013-04-26 03:56:35 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.


You aren't grateful for those things? Have you given any thought to how many more of these annoying, hairless apes would be around without them?
 
2013-04-26 03:57:03 PM

jso2897: Inflatable Rhetoric: God's doing a heck of a job.  With friends like him, who needs enemies?

I do. Any asshole can have friends. But, enemies? I wear them like decorations of honor.


That is quote worthy, sir. Well done.
 
2013-04-26 03:57:50 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.


study it out. read C.S. Lewis.   many great men throughout history were believers. but you know better than them because rats and fleas.

brilliant.
 
2013-04-26 03:58:13 PM

vabeard: Katolu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.

True.  My mother, a very rational woman, was also very strong in her faith.  Of course we are Episcopalians.

/free will and moral choice.


Word. If I was still a Christian, I'd be Episcopalian. The fun ritual and pomp of Catholicism without all the guilt!

/plus wine!
//stupid Baptists
 
2013-04-26 03:59:02 PM

jso2897: You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man. For evil resides in the hearts of men.

All "evil" may reside in the heart of man - but not all suffering comes from evil. Hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and tornadoes are not evil. Neither are cancer, birth defects, or polio. Suffering and pain are endemic to existence - and if God created existence, then He created pain and suffering, too. I don't question your truth AS your truth - just don't go thinking that YOUR truth is THE truth - cause it isn't.


Thank you.  I never said there is a single path to G-d and only I have it.

But, it does appear that you whole heartily agree with my statement that "evil resides in the hearts of men".

Since as you yourself have described: suffering is caused by the natural flow of life... while evil is caused by intentional actions of men to cause harm.
 
2013-04-26 04:00:08 PM

StaleCoffee: jso2897: Inflatable Rhetoric: God's doing a heck of a job.  With friends like him, who needs enemies?

I do. Any asshole can have friends. But, enemies? I wear them like decorations of honor.

That is quote worthy, sir. Well done.


It is a quote - from Cyrano De Berjerac. Although I believe the term "fool" was used in the original, rather than "asshole".
 
2013-04-26 04:00:39 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: vabeard: Katolu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.

True.  My mother, a very rational woman, was also very strong in her faith.  Of course we are Episcopalians.

/free will and moral choice.

Word. If I was still a Christian, I'd be Episcopalian. The fun ritual and pomp of Catholicism without all the guilt!

/plus wine!
//stupid Baptists


If there are four Episcopalians gathered, there is always a FIFTH.
 
2013-04-26 04:00:45 PM

mark12A: Knowing that you're only a ripple in the sea of time is not very comforting. You rise up out of the background noise, you have shape and height for the briefest instant, than you sink back down into the background noise from which you came. That's all there is.


You simply surrender to the highest power, the Universe. It doesn't love you but it doesn't hate you either. It doesn't tell you what to do or judge you. Life is at best a balance between pain and pleasure. Dying is just breaking even, no more of either. Thinking you should somehow be immortal is hubris which most fluffy-wuffy religions say is bad. All things die and fade away, even gods.

We could someday be LIKE gods, if we study the universe and learn its real secrets. We'll never do this with our heads up our ass believing the superstitious scribbelings of long dead, syphilis infected shepherds.
 
2013-04-26 04:01:29 PM

vabeard: Katolu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.

True.  My mother, a very rational woman, was also very strong in her faith.  Of course we are Episcopalians.

/free will and moral choice.


I'm atheist, but as long as a person doesn't harm others with their beliefs, so be it. Be it FSM, Buddha, or Jesus let them take solace.

/ Fark the Scientologista, they're scam artists.
 
2013-04-26 04:02:13 PM

Katolu: vabeard: Katolu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.

True.  My mother, a very rational woman, was also very strong in her faith.  Of course we are Episcopalians.

/free will and moral choice.

I'm atheist, but as long as a person doesn't harm others with their beliefs, so be it. Be it FSM, Buddha, or Jesus let them take solace.

/ Fark the Scientologista, they're scam artists.


Heh, Autocorrect made that funny.
 
2013-04-26 04:02:23 PM

colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.

study it out. read C.S. Lewis.   many great men throughout history were believers. but you know better than them because rats and fleas.

brilliant.


If that were the best response I could have made, I would have kept quiet.

Because some "great men" were believers does not address my comments, anyway.  Unfortunately, I can't ask them and get their response.
 
2013-04-26 04:03:02 PM

NostroZ: jso2897: You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man. For evil resides in the hearts of men.

All "evil" may reside in the heart of man - but not all suffering comes from evil. Hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and tornadoes are not evil. Neither are cancer, birth defects, or polio. Suffering and pain are endemic to existence - and if God created existence, then He created pain and suffering, too. I don't question your truth AS your truth - just don't go thinking that YOUR truth is THE truth - cause it isn't.

Thank you.  I never said there is a single path to G-d and only I have it.

But, it does appear that you whole heartily agree with my statement that "evil resides in the hearts of men".

Since as you yourself have described: suffering is caused by the natural flow of life... while evil is caused by intentional actions of men to cause harm.


Well...yeah, I do - I didn't even think taht was in dispute. My point was that, even if you could dispose of evil, you would by no means have disposed of all human pain, suffering, or hardship. In short, whether you hold some putative "God" responsible or not - life involves suffering and pain. And that is not Man's fault.
 
2013-04-26 04:04:18 PM
Really? Comforts the living shiat out of me. Maybe we find different things comforting.

Kinda makes everything you see and do ultimately pointless.
 
2013-04-26 04:04:35 PM

NostroZ: jso2897: You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man. For evil resides in the hearts of men.

All "evil" may reside in the heart of man - but not all suffering comes from evil. Hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and tornadoes are not evil. Neither are cancer, birth defects, or polio. Suffering and pain are endemic to existence - and if God created existence, then He created pain and suffering, too. I don't question your truth AS your truth - just don't go thinking that YOUR truth is THE truth - cause it isn't.

Thank you.  I never said there is a single path to G-d and only I have it.

But, it does appear that you whole heartily agree with my statement that "evil resides in the hearts of men".

Since as you yourself have described: suffering is caused by the natural flow of life... while evil is caused by intentional actions of men to cause harm.


Mostly agree. I find it hard to believe that every person doing evil is a moustache-twirling villain. Many of the evils done throughout history were done by those who believed their cause was just.

/crusades, pogroms, witch burning, etc.
 
2013-04-26 04:04:49 PM

StaleCoffee: NostroZ: StaleCoffee: You say the teachings are good, but school is awful?
Maybe you just need a different school there buddy... just because you're school sucks at teaching you math, don't mean mine did.

No, it's like being told any answer you come up with is cool, so you can feel good about assuming the cosine of yellowjackets is plasma.

Religion is a left brain activity.  It is intuitive and therefore is not subject to the same rules of 1+1=2, but still follows emotional rules.
What you're describing is a right brain logic chain, which, while useful, is only HALF of how us humans experience the world.

Nope. You don't get to do that. I'm responding to your math analogy. You can take your next busted ass analogy and sit on it until you address the first one. Unless you'd like to just admit it was stupid from the beginning and doesn't work, then I can strip down your left-brain thing there.


Please restrain your rudeness if you wish to continue this discussion.

Math was only the subject, it is interchangeable with any subject that you learn in school.  The issue here it seems is that people agree that a belief in G-d is good (the subject), as the article showed.  Yet, when it comes to the place where learning to believe in G-d (the school), people online reflexively snap with "religion is bad".

This is contradictory and bespeaks a personal bias against the institution of religion rather than the positive life influencing subject of a belief in G-d.
 
2013-04-26 04:05:37 PM

hitlersbrain: mark12A: Knowing that you're only a ripple in the sea of time is not very comforting. You rise up out of the background noise, you have shape and height for the briefest instant, than you sink back down into the background noise from which you came. That's all there is.

You simply surrender to the highest power, the Universe. It doesn't love you but it doesn't hate you either. It doesn't tell you what to do or judge you. Life is at best a balance between pain and pleasure. Dying is just breaking even, no more of either. Thinking you should somehow be immortal is hubris which most fluffy-wuffy religions say is bad. All things die and fade away, even gods.

We could someday be LIKE gods, if we study the universe and learn its real secrets. We'll never do this with our heads up our ass believing the superstitious scribbelings of long dead, syphilis infected shepherds.


If you're going to make a guess at the nature of existence, that's a pretty good one - but that's all it is. We really don't know - and don't need to.
 
2013-04-26 04:06:18 PM

colon_pow: study it out. read C.S. Lewis


I have.  "Liar, Lunatic or Lord"   Because everyone knows a False Dichotomy fallacy is impossible if you present three alternatives!

/i have always thought Apologetics was aptly named.
 
2013-04-26 04:06:47 PM

lockers: I would rather be unhappy than deluded.


Good news! people who have poorly developed sense of spirituality frequently are both deluded AND unhappy.
 
2013-04-26 04:08:23 PM

NostroZ: mutterfark: You're view of G-d is highly interventionist.
You presuppose that G-d wants to rid the world of evil... when in fact, that's the job of man. For evil resides in the hearts of men.

Or my view of god was influenced by my upbringing as a Catholic. I actually read the the Bible. Such gems as 'before you were born I knew ye' and Original Sin kind of bug me. Or god stopping the Earth's rotation to help his chosen people commit genocide.
But I don't believe in God or gods. Mankind has no problem committing heinous acts, especially when organized in groups of like thinking people.

Right and religion has NOTHING to do with it.
The Mongols were open to all religions in their kingdom, while themselves practicing a regional worship of their motherland.  They were organized around the principle of speedy conquest.  During the transition of the Ming Dynasty in China 6.7% of the WORLD population was killed.  Religion did not cause this... a desire for power did.  Same thing can with Mao & Stalin in 20th century.

Catholicism is certainly a tough religion to reconcile, since it presents the dogma in such a black/white format.  Original sin. Masturbation evil.  Pooping is evil... etc. etc.  Silly in my opinion to say that man was created in the image of god, but his penis & pooper are evil.  Huh?  What does that say about the image of god?  Who are we to assume these things about our body that is agreed is supposedly holy.  etc. etc.

But, if you look past the edifice that has been built by man around the message of G-d, you can find much good.
Moses offered salvation and guidance that was beyond idolatry.  Jesus has offered redemption and love.
These are powerful and good themes.  Only because people have taken the good and placed themselves as brokers in between does not mean you should reject the product all together.




Ah, power. Like you might find in warring nations of Europe as various people vied for the title Holy Roman Emperor? Religion is just another place for like minded people to exert power. Religion, IMHO, is just a tool. A tool is not inherently good or bad. The user of the tool and the uses they make of it may be able to be judged good or evil. Vulnerable people who are suffering are just as likely to be led by religion towards a path of extremism and violence as happiness and charity. All just my humble opinion. YMMV
 
2013-04-26 04:08:25 PM
Sorry I'm late.
 
2013-04-26 04:08:35 PM

mark12A: Really? Comforts the living shiat out of me. Maybe we find different things comforting.

Kinda makes everything you see and do ultimately pointless.


I was unaware existence needed a "point". In fact, I am unconvinced that it does. Is there some reason I should feel that my existence needs a point? Does yours? What is that "point" (if I may ask)?
 
2013-04-26 04:09:08 PM

jso2897: Well...yeah, I do - I didn't even think taht was in dispute. My point was that, even if you could dispose of evil, you would by no means have disposed of all human pain, suffering, or hardship. In short, whether you hold some putative "God" responsible or not - life involves suffering and pain. And that is not Man's fault.


Okay.  Life is suffering.
There's a whole religion based around that... it's called Buddhism.

What you just described was one of the four noble truths.
But, that's ONLY THE BEGINNING of Buddhism... once you realize that life is suffering, how does one break that?

And from here, we have a whole religion that gives guidance on how to alleviate this truth of life.
 
2013-04-26 04:11:10 PM

fluffy2097: lockers: I would rather be unhappy than deluded.

Good news! people who have poorly developed sense of spirituality frequently are both deluded AND unhappy.


I read that in Professor Farnsworth's voice.
 
2013-04-26 04:11:17 PM
lockers: I would rather be unhappy than deluded.

But what if the delusion makes you happy and increases the quality of your life? Not a bad trade, actually...

/too rational to believe
//my cross to bear
 
2013-04-26 04:11:40 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Mostly agree. I find it hard to believe that every person doing evil is a moustache-twirling villain. Many of the evils done throughout history were done by those who believed their cause was just.

/crusades, pogroms, witch burning, etc.


Yes, but believing that the murder you are doing is being done for justice is common to man.  For a recent example take a look at the Iraq war.  First the just cause was, WMD.  Then the just cause became to liberate.  Then to keep them stable.  etc. etc.

Justifying one's own actions is human... not religious.
 
2013-04-26 04:11:58 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.

study it out. read C.S. Lewis.   many great men throughout history were believers. but you know better than them because rats and fleas.

brilliant.

If that were the best response I could have made, I would have kept quiet.

Because some "great men" were believers does not address my comments, anyway.  Unfortunately, I can't ask them and get their response.


you're one of these great thinkers who figures out for themselves that there is not god because you go outside and look at the sky and say, 'nope, nobody there'.

seek, and ye shall find.
 
2013-04-26 04:12:29 PM

mark12A: Really? Comforts the living shiat out of me. Maybe we find different things comforting.

Kinda makes everything you see and do ultimately pointless.


Giordano Bruno was not comforted by it.

Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things.  They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.
 
2013-04-26 04:14:02 PM

NostroZ: jso2897: Well...yeah, I do - I didn't even think taht was in dispute. My point was that, even if you could dispose of evil, you would by no means have disposed of all human pain, suffering, or hardship. In short, whether you hold some putative "God" responsible or not - life involves suffering and pain. And that is not Man's fault.

Okay.  Life is suffering.
There's a whole religion based around that... it's called Buddhism.

What you just described was one of the four noble truths.
But, that's ONLY THE BEGINNING of Buddhism... once you realize that life is suffering, how does one break that?

And from here, we have a whole religion that gives guidance on how to alleviate this truth of life.


That's fine with me. Folks can have a religion that's about full nudity, golf, and continual bathing if they want. I'm easy.
 
2013-04-26 04:14:35 PM

jso2897: StaleCoffee: jso2897: Inflatable Rhetoric: God's doing a heck of a job.  With friends like him, who needs enemies?

I do. Any asshole can have friends. But, enemies? I wear them like decorations of honor.

That is quote worthy, sir. Well done.

It is a quote - from Cyrano De Berjerac. Although I believe the term "fool" was used in the original, rather than "asshole".


Guess I should google that before I compliment next time, but I'm leaving you with props anyway.
 
2013-04-26 04:14:52 PM

mark12A: lockers: I would rather be unhappy than deluded.

But what if the delusion makes you happy and increases the quality of your life? Not a bad trade, actually...

/too rational to believe
//my cross to bear


Things get tricky when one person's happy delusion decreases someone else's quality of life. Really my only qualm.
 
2013-04-26 04:15:02 PM

NostroZ: This article points out the GOOD that a belief in G-d can give to a person.
This runs contrary to the popular online notion of G-d is BAD.


I don't think most discussions here on Fark make the claim that God is "bad". Most people here (myself included) don't even believe in God, so we wouldn't attribute characteristics to something we didn't believe existed.

Those who do bad things in his name, however, get the derision and mocking they deserve.

As for the belief in God bringing happiness to people, I've seen that in countless people, first hand. But that has less to do with the concept of God than in people believing in something that is greater than themselves. For example, my knowledge of the natural world and its workings have had a profound effect on my life and they've made me a much happier person. That has less to do with the qualities inherent in the natural systems I've studied and more to do with my general outlook, perspective and disposition.
 
2013-04-26 04:16:57 PM

jso2897: What you just described was one of the four noble truths.
But, that's ONLY THE BEGINNING of Buddhism... once you realize that life is suffering, how does one break that?

And from here, we have a whole religion that gives guidance on how to alleviate this truth of life.

That's fine with me. Folks can have a religion that's about full nudity, golf, and continual bathing if they want. I'm easy.


No, no, no!  You've missed the point here, friend.
You're placing the cart before the horse...  a religion that's only about nudity, golf, and continual bathing will not last for it does not address the human condition (which you brilliantly described - suffering).

The reason that Buddhism, Christianity, Zorastrianism, etc. are still around after thousands of years is precisely because they are a tool of good to the practitioner and provide much comfort in everyday life.
 
2013-04-26 04:18:19 PM
Happy is the man conscious of his spiritual need.
 
2013-04-26 04:19:18 PM

NostroZ: jso2897: What you just described was one of the four noble truths.
But, that's ONLY THE BEGINNING of Buddhism... once you realize that life is suffering, how does one break that?

And from here, we have a whole religion that gives guidance on how to alleviate this truth of life.

That's fine with me. Folks can have a religion that's about full nudity, golf, and continual bathing if they want. I'm easy.

No, no, no!  You've missed the point here, friend.
You're placing the cart before the horse...  a religion that's only about nudity, golf, and continual bathing will not last for it does not address the human condition (which you brilliantly described - suffering).

The reason that Buddhism, Christianity, Zorastrianism, etc. are still around after thousands of years is precisely because they are a tool of good to the practitioner and provide much comfort in everyday life.


You have a problem with nudity, golf, and continual bathing? Bigot.
 
2013-04-26 04:19:58 PM

colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.

study it out. read C.S. Lewis.   many great men throughout history were believers. but you know better than them because rats and fleas.

brilliant.

If that were the best response I could have made, I would have kept quiet.

Because some "great men" were believers does not address my comments, anyway.  Unfortunately, I can't ask them and get their response.

you're one of these great thinkers who figures out for themselves that there is not god because you go outside and look at the sky and say, 'nope, nobody there'.

seek, and ye shall find.

==========
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us? And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.
 
2013-04-26 04:20:55 PM
I was unaware existence needed a "point". In fact, I am unconvinced that it does. Is there some reason I should feel that my existence needs a point? Does yours? What is that "point" (if I may ask)?

Every insight you've had, every great experience you've had, dies with you. So why bother? Seems like a waste of effort.
 
2013-04-26 04:21:25 PM

icebergcomics: Happy is the man conscious of his spiritual need.


That can be true, but isn't necessarily so.
 
2013-04-26 04:22:26 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.


This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?
 
2013-04-26 04:23:31 PM

mark12A: I was unaware existence needed a "point". In fact, I am unconvinced that it does. Is there some reason I should feel that my existence needs a point? Does yours? What is that "point" (if I may ask)?

Every insight you've had, every great experience you've had, dies with you. So why bother? Seems like a waste of effort.


To you maybe - not to me. I get to experience it, and that's plenty enough for me. YMMV. If you need something more - seek it. I won't interfere, nor call you a fool. Knock yerself out.
 
2013-04-26 04:25:36 PM

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?


NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?


Tell me the difference between religion and superstition, then.

Not too long ago, much more than 85% of the world thought the Earth was flat.  Than didn't make it flat.  Got it?
 
2013-04-26 04:26:17 PM

jso2897: icebergcomics: Happy is the man conscious of his spiritual need.

That can be true, but isn't necessarily so.


My experience is that when someone seeks to quench a spiritual thirst and won't stop until they find answers, they tend to be much more at peace and have a lasting happiness. A happiness that transcends government or status or poverty. True, unadulterated happiness.
 
2013-04-26 04:27:25 PM

NostroZ: StaleCoffee: NostroZ: StaleCoffee: You say the teachings are good, but school is awful?
Maybe you just need a different school there buddy... just because you're school sucks at teaching you math, don't mean mine did.

No, it's like being told any answer you come up with is cool, so you can feel good about assuming the cosine of yellowjackets is plasma.

Religion is a left brain activity.  It is intuitive and therefore is not subject to the same rules of 1+1=2, but still follows emotional rules.
What you're describing is a right brain logic chain, which, while useful, is only HALF of how us humans experience the world.

Nope. You don't get to do that. I'm responding to your math analogy. You can take your next busted ass analogy and sit on it until you address the first one. Unless you'd like to just admit it was stupid from the beginning and doesn't work, then I can strip down your left-brain thing there.

Please restrain your rudeness if you wish to continue this discussion.

Math was only the subject, it is interchangeable with any subject that you learn in school.  The issue here it seems is that people agree that a belief in G-d is good (the subject), as the article showed.  Yet, when it comes to the place where learning to believe in G-d (the school), people online reflexively snap with "religion is bad".

This is contradictory and bespeaks a personal bias against the institution of religion rather than the positive life influencing subject of a belief in G-d.


I'll be rude right back at you when you are throwing it around. If you can't stand someone snarking at you then don't be snotty yourself. If you are going to be a snot then expect to have it blown back in your face.

My original statement was religion still sucks because they said 30% of the folks who believe in god don't believe in a religion. You are arguing the exact same point in other posts on this thread so right there I know you aren't looking for anything other than an argument with me because you'd have tried to be less of a dick and more of an educator if you were really trying to express a point you wished to convince me of.

Further, the point of *my* comment is that math is not interchangeable with other subjects, it is a logic structure that is not subjective in the sense you are pushing, and therefore while 1+1 may equal something other than 2 in certain circumstances, when it comes to base 10 integer logic, 1 + 1 generally equals 2. However, getting this wrong can make some people feel bad, but telling them they're right and it's all good no matter what answer they come up with will make them feel good about themselves - regardless of its practical application in reality where 1 + 1 = 2, and not orange or Angry Birds.

At its core, religion *is* bad because it is not an accurate reflection of reality. It can be comforting, but just because a lie is comforting does not make it good. If nothing else it prevents dealing with the real underlying problem that truly needs attention. Saying "God will fix it" sure does make folks feel better, and it makes a lot of them abandon personal responsibility or inquiry into their surroundings as well. Not everyone, no, and just abandoning religion isn't an answer, but abandoning a wrong belief is necessary before you can move on to inquiry regarding truth.
 
2013-04-26 04:27:26 PM

miss diminutive: I don't think most discussions here on Fark make the claim that God is "bad". Most people here (myself included) don't even believe in God, so we wouldn't attribute characteristics to something we didn't believe existed.

Those who do bad things in his name, however, get the derision and mocking they deserve.


What about people who do bad things in the name of the greater good?
What about people who do bad things in the name of themselves?

When I say people say that G-d is 'bad', I mean religion, for that is where people learn about G-d.
 
2013-04-26 04:28:54 PM

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.


I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?


I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.
 
2013-04-26 04:29:06 PM
Belief that I'm currently getting blown by Scarlet Johansson would have a similar positive effect. So if a delusion is going to make me feel better, I'll go with that one.
 
2013-04-26 04:29:54 PM

Cytokine Storm: Man I want to believe in a deity, an afterlife, anything!  Most days I'm ok but sometimes late at night when trying to sleep, my stupid brain turns to thoughts of mortality followed by a sinking feeling of despair as I realize that before I know it, I'll be winked out of existence.  I'm actually jealous of religious people in that regard, the comfort it must bring the to know that there is something after, that it's not the end.  I'm not even that old, I've still got half my life left (hopefully), but I keep imagining myself in my twilight years clinging and fighting tooth and nail to stay alive one more day.

Oh well, I figure I'll eventually adapt and cope, my brain will just reach acceptance and all that.  Either that or maybe the dementia that runs in my family will make it so I don't even realize what's happening.


I have exactly the same problem. Panic attacks because of the waiting oblivion and such. Buddhist philosophy helps a little.

Religion, at its best, can govern evil impulses, inspire, and comfort. Religion... isn't always at its best. I don't think we'll ever really succeed in eradicating it -- the thought processes that predispose many people to it will remain -- so it's more productive to do our best at guiding the religious toward kindness and acceptance.
 
2013-04-26 04:31:55 PM

icebergcomics: jso2897: icebergcomics: Happy is the man conscious of his spiritual need.

That can be true, but isn't necessarily so.

My experience is that when someone seeks to quench a spiritual thirst and won't stop until they find answers, they tend to be much more at peace and have a lasting happiness. A happiness that transcends government or status or poverty. True, unadulterated happiness.


I have known people like that. I have also known "seekers" who were neurotic and unhappy souls, always looking for, but never finding, a filler for some hole in themselves that only they were aware of. Depends upon the individual - when it comes to hairless apes, one size doesn't fit all - no matter how much some people would like to believe that they have the "answer'.
 
2013-04-26 04:32:02 PM

fluffy2097: lockers: I would rather be unhappy than deluded.

Good news! people who have poorly developed sense of spirituality frequently are both deluded AND unhappy.


from whence the term holier-than-thou.
 
2013-04-26 04:33:12 PM

icebergcomics: Happy is the man conscious of his spiritual need.


Miserable or dead are his neighbors.
 
2013-04-26 04:33:43 PM

cbathrob: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?

I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.


If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.
 
2013-04-26 04:34:44 PM

StaleCoffee: What the fark is so amazing about not having any idea what living for eternity is going to be like except that it's supposed to be awesome? If you can't find wonder in the world as it is I can't imagine how you could spend eternity living with the same guy whose crowning achievement was sticking you in the world you find lacking otherwise. It's like building a giant lego fortress with strippers and an endless font of Sam Adams and saying it lacks because the builder knocked off for lunch.


My idea of heaven is getting a peek behind the curtain of life. To witness and explore and (simulatedly?) experience. To know the real truth of history. To meet the multitudes before you and have endless time for learning.

It would be so nice if it were real.
 
2013-04-26 04:35:05 PM

Inchoate: Cytokine Storm: Man I want to believe in a deity, an afterlife, anything!  Most days I'm ok but sometimes late at night when trying to sleep, my stupid brain turns to thoughts of mortality followed by a sinking feeling of despair as I realize that before I know it, I'll be winked out of existence.  I'm actually jealous of religious people in that regard, the comfort it must bring the to know that there is something after, that it's not the end.  I'm not even that old, I've still got half my life left (hopefully), but I keep imagining myself in my twilight years clinging and fighting tooth and nail to stay alive one more day.

Oh well, I figure I'll eventually adapt and cope, my brain will just reach acceptance and all that.  Either that or maybe the dementia that runs in my family will make it so I don't even realize what's happening.

I have exactly the same problem. Panic attacks because of the waiting oblivion and such. Buddhist philosophy helps a little.

Religion, at its best, can govern evil impulses, inspire, and comfort. Religion... isn't always at its best. I don't think we'll ever really succeed in eradicating it -- the thought processes that predispose many people to it will remain -- so it's more productive to do our best at guiding the religious toward kindness and acceptance.


Why would you want to "eradicate" religion? Those damn Jello salads with the little marshmallows in them aren't THAT bad.
 
2013-04-26 04:35:08 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Tell me the difference between religion and superstition, then.

Not too long ago, much more than 85% of the world thought the Earth was flat. Than didn't make it flat. Got it?


You know. This magic box in front of you can be used to access other things besides Fark.
Here let me help you:
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Superstition - a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.

As you can see.  Religion denotes a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs and has been used as a basis for civilization for thousands of years.  Superstition is a derogatory term for a belief in something ominous that is circumstantial and has none of the richness of religious ritual, observance, or universe creation.

To cut to the chase.  When you call a religion a superstition you are insulting all the followers as stupid, as stupid as people who fear opening an umbrella inside the house.  If you enjoy insulting 85% of the world population with your view, go ahead.

It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.
 
2013-04-26 04:35:30 PM
Seriously, sometimes I wish I believed in God, because it would probably make my life a lot easier.  I just can't do it, however.  I'm a naturally suspicious, skeptical person, and religion asks me to take too much on faith.  Too many of the pro-religious arguments are just too self-serving; the idea of frightening people into believing, lest they go to Hell, seems like a particularly cynical exploitation of human beings natural fear of death. The non-existence of God makes far more sense to me than the existence of God.  Of course, your mileage may vary.
 
2013-04-26 04:37:15 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: cbathrob: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?

I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.

If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.


Superstition is a pejorative for living in fear of supernatural consequences; religion is a collection of belief systems and worldviews with a spiritual basis. They are not mutually exclusive but they are not interchangeable either.
 
2013-04-26 04:39:59 PM

jso2897: Why would you want to "eradicate" religion? Those damn Jello salads with the little marshmallows in them aren't THAT bad.


A lot of atheists seem to dream of this. I used to, but have mellowed over the last few years. I still hate that Jello salad, though.  :D
 
2013-04-26 04:40:03 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: cbathrob: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?

I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.

If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.


Of course it's possible to reason with religious people.  Some of the worlds greatest scientists and philosophers have been religious.  When arguing about religion, however, religious people, in my experience, work from a different set of assumptions, which aren't really amenable to reason.  Some researchers say that this is due to differences in people's brains--some of us are wired to be religious, some of us not.  I go back and forth about which group got the better deal.
 
2013-04-26 04:41:24 PM

Inchoate: StaleCoffee: What the fark is so amazing about not having any idea what living for eternity is going to be like except that it's supposed to be awesome? If you can't find wonder in the world as it is I can't imagine how you could spend eternity living with the same guy whose crowning achievement was sticking you in the world you find lacking otherwise. It's like building a giant lego fortress with strippers and an endless font of Sam Adams and saying it lacks because the builder knocked off for lunch.

My idea of heaven is getting a peek behind the curtain of life. To witness and explore and (simulatedly?) experience. To know the real truth of history. To meet the multitudes before you and have endless time for learning.

It would be so nice if it were real.


I have three people that show up in green and I couldn't remember why you are one of them, but I see it's for good reason. That sounds pretty awesome.
 
2013-04-26 04:41:34 PM

BMFPitt: Belief that I'm currently getting blown by Scarlet Johansson would have a similar positive effect. So if a delusion is going to make me feel better, I'll go with that one.


Infidel! My sect believes that I am currently getting blown by Scarlet Johansson and she's going to finish me off with her boobs. Repent, heretic!
 
2013-04-26 04:42:13 PM

StaleCoffee: NostroZ: StaleCoffee: NostroZ: StaleCoffee: You say the teachings are good, but school is awful?
Maybe you just need a different school there buddy... just because you're school sucks at teaching you math, don't mean mine did.

No, it's like being told any answer you come up with is cool, so you can feel good about assuming the cosine of yellowjackets is plasma.

Religion is a left brain activity.  It is intuitive and therefore is not subject to the same rules of 1+1=2, but still follows emotional rules.
What you're describing is a right brain logic chain, which, while useful, is only HALF of how us humans experience the world.

Nope. You don't get to do that. I'm responding to your math analogy. You can take your next busted ass analogy and sit on it until you address the first one. Unless you'd like to just admit it was stupid from the beginning and doesn't work, then I can strip down your left-brain thing there.

Please restrain your rudeness if you wish to continue this discussion.

Math was only the subject, it is interchangeable with any subject that you learn in school.  The issue here it seems is that people agree that a belief in G-d is good (the subject), as the article showed.  Yet, when it comes to the place where learning to believe in G-d (the school), people online reflexively snap with "religion is bad".

This is contradictory and bespeaks a personal bias against the institution of religion rather than the positive life influencing subject of a belief in G-d.

I'll be rude right back at you when you are throwing it around. If you can't stand someone snarking at you then don't be snotty yourself. If you are going to be a snot then expect to have it blown back in your face.

My original statement was religion still sucks because they said 30% of the folks who believe in god don't believe in a religion. You are arguing the exact same point in other posts on this thread so right there I know you aren't looking for anything other than an argument with me ...


You have proven yourself to be a person of wrath.
Since I know you do not believe in the 7 deadly sins or that you should restrain your hatred, I'll spare you the lecture.

Please do not converse with me further, as you are a hateful person, who when asked to be more polite makes it a point to be extra rude.

My life is too short to argue with people who have ill will towards me and no intention of listening.
Good day sir, you are now on my block list.
 
2013-04-26 04:42:19 PM

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Tell me the difference between religion and superstition, then.

Not too long ago, much more than 85% of the world thought the Earth was flat. Than didn't make it flat. Got it?

You know. This magic box in front of you can be used to access other things besides Fark.
Here let me help you:
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Superstition - a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.

As you can see.  Religion denotes a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs and has been used as a basis for civilization for thousands of years.  Superstition is a derogatory term for a belief in something ominous that is circumstantial and has none of the richness of religious ritual, observance, or universe creation.

To cut to the chase.  When you call a religion a superstition you are insulting all the followers as stupid, as stupid as people who fear opening an umbrella inside the house.  If you enjoy insulting 85% of the world population with your view, go ahead.

It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.


Ooooh, was I rude?  How would I not be rude?  Pretend to believe?  I could enter just white space in comments, would that be ok with you?  What about your condescending reference to the online dictionary?  Was that polite?
 
2013-04-26 04:42:56 PM
Spirituality: woo-woo feel good bullshiat, meant to make the "spiritual" person feel like they are an important part of the universe.
 
2013-04-26 04:42:56 PM

colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.

study it out. read C.S. Lewis.   many great men throughout history were believers. but you know better than them because rats and fleas.

brilliant.

If that were the best response I could have made, I would have kept quiet.

Because some "great men" were believers does not address my comments, anyway.  Unfortunately, I can't ask them and get their response.

you're one of these great thinkers who figures out for themselves that there is not god because you go outside and look at the sky and say, 'nope, nobody there'.

seek, and ye shall find.


Many of your apparently unquestionable "great men" also thought

The fact that you
 
2013-04-26 04:43:00 PM

cbathrob: Seriously, sometimes I wish I believed in God, because it would probably make my life a lot easier.  I just can't do it, however.  I'm a naturally suspicious, skeptical person, and religion asks me to take too much on faith.  Too many of the pro-religious arguments are just too self-serving; the idea of frightening people into believing, lest they go to Hell, seems like a particularly cynical exploitation of human beings natural fear of death. The non-existence of God makes far more sense to me than the existence of God.  Of course, your mileage may vary.


I think you may be looking at effect rather than cause. I have a theory that religions that connect to deep human impulses, and focus on concepts like devotion to one god to the exclusion of all others, proselytizing, etc. are naturally going to be much more successful in a Darwinian sense.
 
2013-04-26 04:43:05 PM

StaleCoffee: Inchoate: StaleCoffee: What the fark is so amazing about not having any idea what living for eternity is going to be like except that it's supposed to be awesome? If you can't find wonder in the world as it is I can't imagine how you could spend eternity living with the same guy whose crowning achievement was sticking you in the world you find lacking otherwise. It's like building a giant lego fortress with strippers and an endless font of Sam Adams and saying it lacks because the builder knocked off for lunch.

My idea of heaven is getting a peek behind the curtain of life. To witness and explore and (simulatedly?) experience. To know the real truth of history. To meet the multitudes before you and have endless time for learning.

It would be so nice if it were real.

I have three people that show up in green and I couldn't remember why you are one of them, but I see it's for good reason. That sounds pretty awesome.


nm only two, you and Pocket Ninja. But I think he defaults to green for everyone.
 
2013-04-26 04:44:28 PM

NostroZ: but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion


So please list the differences. Difficulty: The fact that a lot of people believe one is actually real is not relevant.
 
2013-04-26 04:44:32 PM

StaleCoffee: Inflatable Rhetoric: cbathrob: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?

I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.

If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.

Superstition is a pejorative for living in fear of supernatural consequences; religion is a collection of belief systems and worldviews with a spiritual basis. They are not mutually exclusive but they are not interchangeable either.


It's at best a matter of degree and popularity.  85% of people, according to some, are relgious.  Does that make it truth?

Let me ask again - Why does anyone think god loves them?  Why would anyone love god?
 
2013-04-26 04:44:58 PM

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Tell me the difference between religion and superstition, then.

Not too long ago, much more than 85% of the world thought the Earth was flat. Than didn't make it flat. Got it?

You know. This magic box in front of you can be used to access other things besides Fark.
Here let me help you:
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Superstition - a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.

As you can see.  Religion denotes a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs and has been used as a basis for civilization for thousands of years.  Superstition is a derogatory term for a belief in something ominous that is circumstantial and has none of the richness of religious ritual, observance, or universe creation.

To cut to the chase.  When you call a religion a superstition you are insulting all the followers as stupid, as stupid as people who fear opening an umbrella inside the house.  If you enjoy insulting 85% of the world population with your view, go ahead.

It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.


But surely you'll agree that one person's superstition could well be someone else's religion?  Some elderly people in Japan believe that one should not whistle at night, as that may attract spirits; this belief is based in Shintoism.  Of course, the younger generation scoffs at the notion.  Is this religion or superstition?  Or is it a superstition with a religious basis?  Is it the moral code that makes the difference?
 
2013-04-26 04:44:59 PM

colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: colon_pow: Inflatable Rhetoric: God has give us soooo many things to be thankful for.
Malaria, and mosquitoes to spread it.
Plague, with rats and fleas to spread it.
TB, polio, Ebola ... the list goes on and on.
==============
Even if you do think god exists, why would you think he loves us?  And why would you love him?

Fear I can understand, but not love.

study it out. read C.S. Lewis.   many great men throughout history were believers. but you know better than them because rats and fleas.

brilliant.

If that were the best response I could have made, I would have kept quiet.

Because some "great men" were believers does not address my comments, anyway.  Unfortunately, I can't ask them and get their response.

you're one of these great thinkers who figures out for themselves that there is not god because you go outside and look at the sky and say, 'nope, nobody there'.

seek, and ye shall find.


A strawman followed by a bumper sticker for internet Christians. I would recommend taking his advice about keeping quiet until you can come up with something better.
 
2013-04-26 04:47:07 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: cbathrob: Seriously, sometimes I wish I believed in God, because it would probably make my life a lot easier.  I just can't do it, however.  I'm a naturally suspicious, skeptical person, and religion asks me to take too much on faith.  Too many of the pro-religious arguments are just too self-serving; the idea of frightening people into believing, lest they go to Hell, seems like a particularly cynical exploitation of human beings natural fear of death. The non-existence of God makes far more sense to me than the existence of God.  Of course, your mileage may vary.

I think you may be looking at effect rather than cause. I have a theory that religions that connect to deep human impulses, and focus on concepts like devotion to one god to the exclusion of all others, proselytizing, etc. are naturally going to be much more successful in a Darwinian sense.


Yeah, maybe so.  That would certainly be ironic: that the survival of a particular religious faith is governed by the laws of natural selection.
 
2013-04-26 04:47:49 PM

NostroZ: You have proven yourself to be a person of wrath.
Since I know you do not believe in the 7 deadly sins or that you should restrain your hatred, I'll spare you the lecture.

Please do not converse with me further, as you are a hateful person, who when asked to be more polite makes it a point to be extra rude.

My life is too short to argue with people who have ill will towards me and no intention of listening.
Good day sir, you are now on my block list.


Did you say that in a Gene Wilder voice? Because I only respond to "Good day sir" when it's in a Gene Wilder voice.

Since this means I can get the last word in, it amuses me to see you fall back on standard operating procedure for apologists when they get backed into their own corners called on their bullshiat and bail. So you ARE here just to argue rather than educate, and since you acknowledge you can't win this argument, you are running away.

Am I allowed to award myself Internet points? No, I'm not going to ask that, I'm just going to do it. +1 to me, which nets me a lifetime total of points equalling a staggering cosine of yellowjacket plasma.
 
2013-04-26 04:49:09 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.

Ooooh, was I rude? How would I not be rude? Pretend to believe? I could enter just white space in comments, would that be ok with you? What about your condescending reference to the online dictionary? Was that polite?


I did not mean to condescend, though I'm sure it came off as such.  It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.  I did not take your confusion between the two terms as sincere.  I apologize.

Hopefully, now that the two terms are right in front of you, you can see why calling a religion a superstition undercuts a lot of the positive characteristics of religion.
 
2013-04-26 04:50:23 PM
cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2013-04-26 04:50:37 PM
Let's be fair, here.

A. TFA is about belief in God, not so much following a religion. Two different things. (I suspect that most people that belong to church don't really believe in all that; but it's a small thing for them to pretend to believe because of all the social perks.)

B. Most religious people are good people; decent, at least. Like nations, the average Joes aren't directly responsible for their leaderships' actions ... but, if you continue supporting them, guess what: you're as morally culpable as the ones who committed the atrocity.

Yes, I said it. If you're putting money in the collection plate at Mass, you're helping the Vatican cover up the institutional sexual abuse of children. If you're still bowing to Mecca, your support is going to organizations that send children strapped with explosives into cafes.

C. Note that the point in TFA is that belief in God  treats depression ... but it doesn't cure it. It's a pain killer, i.e. it doesn't mitigate the underlying conditions, only their effects.

Medical depression is cured only through proper medication and psychiatric supervision. Non-medical depression is cured with self-esteem, which can be learned ... it's not easy, but it's possible.
 
2013-04-26 04:51:00 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.


Religion = What I believe.

Superstition = What other people believe.
 
2013-04-26 04:51:06 PM

NostroZ: It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.


Is it insulting to a salmon to be called a fish?
 
2013-04-26 04:51:45 PM

Inchoate: jso2897: Why would you want to "eradicate" religion? Those damn Jello salads with the little marshmallows in them aren't THAT bad.

A lot of atheists seem to dream of this. I used to, but have mellowed over the last few years. I still hate that Jello salad, though.  :D


Same here. I've known too many nice, kind, decent religious folks in my life, and seen them take comfort from their faith that I would not begrudge them - I 'm just not willing to dismiss faith as an all-around bad thing. I myself don't "reject" faith - I just never acquired the capacity for it to begin with.
 
2013-04-26 04:54:07 PM

Farking Canuck: NostroZ: but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion

So please list the differences. Difficulty: The fact that a lot of people believe one is actually real is not relevant.

Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Superstition - a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.


Superstition = Tree
Religion = Forest
 
2013-04-26 04:54:40 PM

Farking Canuck: NostroZ: It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.

Is it insulting to a salmon to be called a fish?


He might be insulted if you told him he was full of carp.
 
2013-04-26 04:55:53 PM
People that just believe in themselves don't get depressed.
 
2013-04-26 04:56:27 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: StaleCoffee: Inflatable Rhetoric: cbathrob: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?

I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.

If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.

Superstition is a pejorative for living in fear of supernatural consequences; religion is a collection of belief systems and worldviews with a spiritual basis. They are not mutually exclusive but they are not interchangeable either.

It's at best a matter of degree and popularity.  85% of people, according to some, are relgious.  Does that make it truth?

Let me ask again - Why does anyone think god loves them?  Why would anyone love god?


Well, look at it this way - you can be religious without being superstitious, you can be superstitious without being religious, but you can't be either without believing in the supernatural. Like, you could stagger around in a panic that some angry divinity is going to dump your ass in a snake pit for eternity, or you could just kind of roll with it, trust that things will be cool and frame your life around the better points of whatever you were taught to believe. Superstition ranges into that fear of getting dumped in a snake pit and quavering around trying to avoid it. It is often a subset to religion but isn't necessarily so. People avoid stepping on cracks because they're superstitious about it spawning a Chiropractor somewhere, or they leave a bowl of milk out so Tooth Faeries don't come and kill them in their sleep (fark YOU GUILLERMO DEL TORO FOR BEING SO AWESOME YET TERRIFYING) or they make sure to get to church every sunday because otherwise Eternally Loving Jesus will spit them on a giant fork and roast their asses in the fires of Hieronymous Bosch for eternity, and nobody wants to go through a demons digestive tract more than once let me tell you.

I'm not saying it makes sense, just that they cover different if related subject matter. Like physics and biology. They intersect and rely on each other but they're independent fields.

As for why god would love anybody, got me man. Even when I run out of medication and see horrible things and my wife tells me to stop attacking the shirts in the closet at 2 AM I don't think that. My kids have never been afraid of monsters though. Unmedicated daddy killed them all a long, long time ago.
 
2013-04-26 04:58:01 PM

Farking Canuck: NostroZ: It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.

Is it insulting to a salmon to be called a fish?


Yes, you Canuck.
I thought you had more manners than that in Canada.

A fish does not have feelings... is that how you feel about religious people?  They are fish?
 
2013-04-26 04:58:52 PM

Lernaeus: Let's be fair, here.

A. TFA is about belief in God, not so much following a religion. Two different things. (I suspect that most people that belong to church don't really believe in all that; but it's a small thing for them to pretend to believe because of all the social perks.)

B. Most religious people are good people; decent, at least. Like nations, the average Joes aren't directly responsible for their leaderships' actions ... but, if you continue supporting them, guess what: you're as morally culpable as the ones who committed the atrocity.

Yes, I said it. If you're putting money in the collection plate at Mass, you're helping the Vatican cover up the institutional sexual abuse of children. If you're still bowing to Mecca, your support is going to organizations that send children strapped with explosives into cafes.

C. Note that the point in TFA is that belief in God  treats depression ... but it doesn't cure it. It's a pain killer, i.e. it doesn't mitigate the underlying conditions, only their effects.

Medical depression is cured only through proper medication and psychiatric supervision. Non-medical depression is cured with self-esteem, which can be learned ... it's not easy, but it's possible.


As mental health professional, I recommend medication, therapy, exercise, and social support, in varying degrees depending on the situation.  For those who are religious, I definitely recommend getting hooked up with their church, as long as the church is a support rather than a cause of the depression (which I've seen).  I don't know that there's a hard and fast line between medical and non-medical depression, as a person's emotional state affects brain functioning and vice versa.  Some depressions are sufficiently severe that medication is necessary before anything else will help, but the best outcomes generally come from a mixed approach.
 
2013-04-26 04:59:06 PM

jrkeenan65: People that just believe in themselves don't get depressed.


Except when they fail.  Then, it's time to take a bite from Mr. Bullet to the brain.
 
2013-04-26 04:59:10 PM

jso2897: Farking Canuck: NostroZ: It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.

Is it insulting to a salmon to be called a fish?

He might be insulted if you told him he was full of carp.


Where is your cod now?!
 
2013-04-26 04:59:57 PM

StaleCoffee: Marine1: mutterfark: Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?

You could make the argument that isn't exactly the case, fwiw. Higher power creates man (through evolution... duh), man turns out to be the burnout junkie of intelligent life, higher power sends moral teachers (Jesus, Buddha, Hillel, etc.). It's not beyond man's ability to comprehend the lessons of such teachers, and they explicitly teach that such conduct (murder, etc.) is forbidden.

That undermines the whole omnipotent thing, though.


Not if you take free will into account.
 
2013-04-26 05:00:42 PM

Inchoate: jso2897: Why would you want to "eradicate" religion? Those damn Jello salads with the little marshmallows in them aren't THAT bad.

A lot of atheists seem to dream of this. I used to, but have mellowed over the last few years. I still hate that Jello salad, though.  :D


Eradicating religion is too lofty a goal right now.

For the time being, I'll settle for neutering Islam the way Christianity was in the centuries following the Reformation, and, of course, unmercifully prosecuting priests who molest children.
 
2013-04-26 05:00:53 PM

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.

Ooooh, was I rude? How would I not be rude? Pretend to believe? I could enter just white space in comments, would that be ok with you? What about your condescending reference to the online dictionary? Was that polite?

I did not mean to condescend, though I'm sure it came off as such.  It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.  I did not take your confusion between the two terms as sincere.  I apologize.

Hopefully, now that the two terms are right in front of you, you can see why calling a religion a superstition undercuts a lot of the positive characteristics of religion.


Religion does more harm than good, and always has.  Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies.  How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends?  And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.
 
2013-04-26 05:03:04 PM

cbathrob: But surely you'll agree that one person's superstition could well be someone else's religion? Some elderly people in Japan believe that one should not whistle at night, as that may attract spirits; this belief is based in Shintoism. Of course, the younger generation scoffs at the notion. Is this religion or superstition? Or is it a superstition with a religious basis? Is it the moral code that makes the difference?


I am no expert on Shintoism and cannot say what constitutes a superstition there as it is much more nuanced in its worship of spirits.

I can say from personal experience that I grew up with the superstition that whistling in the house was bad, and would cause one to lose money.  I still whistle in the house and this single aspect that is supposed to control my actions does not play any role in my religious worldview, as my concept of G-d is a lot more non-interventionist.
 
2013-04-26 05:05:00 PM

NostroZ: Farking Canuck: NostroZ: but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion

So please list the differences. Difficulty: The fact that a lot of people believe one is actually real is not relevant.

Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Superstition - a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.

Superstition = Tree
Religion = Forest


Not bad. But let's start with the fallacy of using dictionary definitions as arguments ... they are not crafted with the precision to be used as such. They are meant to be quick references to give someone a flavor of what a term means. An editor of the Oxford Dictionary explains it well in this quote:

"Dictionary definitions are written with a lot of things in mind, but rigorously circumscribing the exact meanings and connotations of terms is not usually one of them."
- Jesse Sheidlower, the editor at large of the Oxford English Dictionary

So let's compare the attributes of these two things:
- belief without real evidence - both claim anecdotal evidence and unverifiable historical references as evidence. Nothing solid.
- groups of like minded followers - proponents of both tend to group together and reinforce their beliefs
- belief in supernatural events/beings/powers - both tend to center around things that defy known physics

Can you list any attributes that demonstrate they are different? Note that success, either financially or in popularity, does not eliminate either from being included in the definitions.
 
2013-04-26 05:06:23 PM

Marine1: StaleCoffee: Marine1: mutterfark: Actually the sickening and outrageous shiat people do in the name of the christian god, yahweh, or allah depresses me more than cheers me up. How on Earth am I supposed to take comfort in belief in a deity, supposedly omnipotent, that won't even take the time to kill his own misguided followers before they kill people minding their own business?

You could make the argument that isn't exactly the case, fwiw. Higher power creates man (through evolution... duh), man turns out to be the burnout junkie of intelligent life, higher power sends moral teachers (Jesus, Buddha, Hillel, etc.). It's not beyond man's ability to comprehend the lessons of such teachers, and they explicitly teach that such conduct (murder, etc.) is forbidden.

That undermines the whole omnipotent thing, though.

Not if you take free will into account.


Nope, free will doesn't change that because an omnipotent and omniscient deity could have done that without installing the Evil subroutines.

Not to mention that you do not have unfettered free will. You are constrained by your environment - you cannot breathe water unaided, you cannot eat rocks, you cannot jump over a ten story building in a single bound. If evil is an action taken on another entity within the constraints of the environment they exist within, then said all powerful and all knowing deity placed those entities in an environment specifically constructed to allow it. Free will could exist just as well without the ability to choke the life out of your neighbor. You could bring him a glass of milk or wave as you went by, expanding your range of choices to include Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic Evil doesn't make free will any more or less free, and it's still been specifically placed there by the hypothetical creator.

If you could only choose LG, NG, CG, N, LN and CN you still have free will to choose, you just have fewer choices.
 
2013-04-26 05:07:39 PM

StaleCoffee: Inflatable Rhetoric: StaleCoffee: Inflatable Rhetoric: cbathrob: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?

I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.

If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.

Superstition is a pejorative for living in fear of supernatural consequences; religion is a collection of belief systems and worldviews with a spiritual basis. They are not mutually exclusive but they are not interchangeable either.

It's at best a matter of degree and popularity.  85% of people, according to some, are relgious.  Does that make it truth?

Let me ask again - Why does anyone think god loves them?  Why would anyone love god?

Well, look at it this way - you can be rel ...


A Harry Bosch fan!!!!  Great.  I think there's a new one coming soon.
 
2013-04-26 05:07:48 PM

NostroZ: Farking Canuck: NostroZ: It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.

Is it insulting to a salmon to be called a fish?

Yes, you Canuck.
I thought you had more manners than that in Canada.

A fish does not have feelings... is that how you feel about religious people?  They are fish?


A statement being insulting and someone being insulted by a statement are two very different things.

We cannot know what sensitive people will find insulting ... you can try to avoid sensitive topics but that still won't be enough for some people.

As for an insulting statement ... well I suppose some may find the truth insulting but that will never stop me from stating it.
 
2013-04-26 05:08:40 PM

NostroZ: is that how you feel about religious people?  They are fish?


Just the people with the fish thing on their cars. I heard they were Deep Ones that converted.
 
2013-04-26 05:10:58 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.

Ooooh, was I rude? How would I not be rude? Pretend to believe? I could enter just white space in comments, would that be ok with you? What about your condescending reference to the online dictionary? Was that polite?

I did not mean to condescend, though I'm sure it came off as such.  It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.  I did not take your confusion between the two terms as sincere.  I apologize.

Hopefully, now that the two terms are right in front of you, you can see why calling a religion a superstition undercuts a lot of the positive characteristics of religion.

Religion does more harm than good, and always has.  Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies.  How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends?  And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.


You have made it completely known that you're the coolest guy around and that you are the second coming of Dawkins. Please enlighten us more, as my life would be more futile and bleak without you delivering the truth about invisible friends and fairy tales. I only hope that the blood does not rush from your most evolved brain due to the non-stop oral favors your massive dong must be receiving.
 
2013-04-26 05:12:08 PM

hitlersbrain: NostroZ: is that how you feel about religious people?  They are fish?

Just the people with the fish thing on their cars. I heard they were Deep Ones that converted.


PS  I have never made a comment about god(s) or religion to anyone I don't know well unless they start it.

And a lot of religious/superstitious people just can't mind their own business.  If they start yakking about it, I will respond, and they don't always like my responses.  The solution is simple - STFU about it.
 
2013-04-26 05:14:35 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion does more harm than good, and always has. Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies. How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends? And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.


This is the last time, since I don't have to prove anything to you...  as a favor to a fellow human, I will take time out of my day to explain to you why religion is NOT the same as the Tooth Fairy.  If you still want to continue this "everyone is stupid, except me" line of discourse, I will have to place you on the ignore list.

Religion is a set of beliefs about the way the world works, morality, and overall universe.  It provides a compass on how to live one's ENTIRE LIFE.  The Tooth Fairy is a single event make belief character.

A belief in religion is not a belief in an imaginary friend... Buddhism does not have ANY view of a being that watches over us and judges us.  For you to simplify it to such a ridiculous notion shows your disdain for people of faith.

I hope this helps.
(Or you just trolled me... congrats)
 
2013-04-26 05:14:52 PM

cbathrob: I don't know that there's a hard and fast line between medical and non-medical depression, as a person's emotional state affects brain functioning and vice versa.  Some depressions are sufficiently severe that medication is necessary before anything else will help, but the best outcomes generally come from a mixed approach.


I realize the terrain between clinical depression and "my spouse is cheating on me" is vast and varied, so I generalized. I should have said something like "incidental depression," as opposed to merely being sad about something for a short period of time.

And I do believe that, for those that don't need medication and medical supervision, self-esteem is the best route to "curing" that kind of depression.But church isn't the place to find it.

Church teaches people to be selfless, whereas self-esteem is a very selfish endeavor. You can't find self-esteem if you're constantly being guilt-tripped into sacrificing your time, energy, money, etc. Further, church teaches you that you're a filthy sinner by virtue of your very existence, and you're not worthy of "salvation" unless you devote your ONE SHOT at life to denying yourself the things you want, and serving the commands of a fictional character.

I mean, what if something horrible goes wrong? A person with a belief in God is taught "He works in mysterious ways ...", so this God that allegedly loves you just let something tragic happen to you because he wants you to "learn a lesson."

Personally, I can't think of any better recipe for lifelong depression than that.
 
2013-04-26 05:15:30 PM

The Billdozer: Inflatable Rhetoric: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.

Ooooh, was I rude? How would I not be rude? Pretend to believe? I could enter just white space in comments, would that be ok with you? What about your condescending reference to the online dictionary? Was that polite?

I did not mean to condescend, though I'm sure it came off as such.  It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.  I did not take your confusion between the two terms as sincere.  I apologize.

Hopefully, now that the two terms are right in front of you, you can see why calling a religion a superstition undercuts a lot of the positive characteristics of religion.

Religion does more harm than good, and always has.  Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies.  How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends?  And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.

You have made it completely known that you're the coolest guy around and that you are the second coming of Dawkins. Please enlighten us more, as my life would be more futile and bleak without you delivering the truth about invisible friends and fairy tales. I only hope that the blood does not rush from your most evolved brain due to the non-stop oral favors your massive dong must be receiving.


You must have been on the debate team, right?
 
2013-04-26 05:17:31 PM

Farking Canuck: As for an insulting statement ... well I suppose some may find the truth insulting but that will never stop me from stating it.


Who's truth?
Your truth...  which is an opinion.

An opinion which is insulting is not truth, it's simply rude.
 
2013-04-26 05:17:33 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: StaleCoffee: Inflatable Rhetoric: StaleCoffee: Inflatable Rhetoric: cbathrob: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Children are comforted by Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and other things. They grow up, and learn it's all make-believe.
Adults need to do the same.
There is no difference between religion and superstition, except a lot of people make a lot of money off religion.

This is a common line I hear online, and it's very juvenile.
Religion =/= Santa Claus...  most religions do not train their children that their dogma is a lie (seriously, why do Americans lie to their kids about religion/Santa).

Religion can be used to make money and control people... but if you think there is NO DIFFERENCE between superstition and religion, you have a lot of growing up to do.  Also, I would hold back your opinions of how stupid you think people who believe in religion are.  They'll wonder where you came up with your "religion is for kids" theory, since 85% of the world is religious.

I wont tell you WHAT to believe if you don't tell me what NOT to believe.
Got it?

I know your comment isn't addressed to me, but, speaking as an atheist, what propose is fine by me.  If only other religious people had that attitude I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Foisting your beliefs, or lack thereof, on others is bullshiat.

If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.

I've been waiting for someone to tell me the difference between religion and superstition for a long time.

Superstition is a pejorative for living in fear of supernatural consequences; religion is a collection of belief systems and worldviews with a spiritual basis. They are not mutually exclusive but they are not interchangeable either.

It's at best a matter of degree and popularity.  85% of people, according to some, are relgious.  Does that make it truth?

Let me ask again - Why does anyone think god loves them?  Why would anyone love god?

Well, look at it this way - y ...


I'm stuck on my D&D analogy now. I was thinking, what if I had to face all the NPC's I made over the years?

Nameless NPC Chick: "You had the demon eat my children! WHY?!?!?"
Me: "I, uh, well, you see..."
Nameless NPC Chick: "It raped me repeatedly! It had a four foot schlong studded with poisonous barbs! WHY DID YOU PUT THAT THERE? DID IT HAVE TO BE THAT BIG? AND BARBED?"
Me: "Well, see, the heroes needed to,you know, hate it because it was a bad thing and.. uh.. "
Nameless NPC Chick: "What? Heroes? What heroes? IT ATE MY CHILDREN."
Me: "Yes, see, when I made you I, like, well, you know. The world has bad things in it  and..."
Nameless NPC Chick: "Like child eating demons with four foot, poison-barbed cocks?"
Me: "...yes... and... well.. you know, it helps, like, differentiate the whole morality thing and makes it..."
Nameless NPC Chick: "THE WORLD HAS BAD THINGS BECAUSE YOU PUT THEM THERE AS THE DM"
Me: "Okay, look, if it didn't have bad things in it, life would be kind of boring and shiat right? So - "
Nameless NPC Chick: "Boring? MY CHILDREN ARE DEMON POOP. MY ANUS IS NINE INCHES WIDE AND DRIPPING WITH ACID. I WOULD LIKE A BORING WORLD WHERE I CAN SING TO MY CHILDREN AND HAVE CONSENSUAL SEX WITH A SIX INCH, NON BARBED PENIS OF POSSIBLY ABOVE AVERAGE GIRTH."
Me: "But... then.. you know, there wouldn't be... any.. wow, switching to 4E was a really bad idea."
Nameless NPC Chick: "So was the demon, man. How much farking hentai do you watch? Really, what the fark?"
Me: "Look, when I was building this world it's not like any of you had any real substance, you were, like, background for my story... aw shiat. Nevermind. Okay, new game world, everyone has lots of great sex and never gets sick and everyone talks it out, also free beer forever and nobody gets fat unless they want to THE farkING END."

The DM. He has that power.
 
2013-04-26 05:17:54 PM

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion does more harm than good, and always has. Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies. How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends? And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.

This is the last time, since I don't have to prove anything to you...  as a favor to a fellow human, I will take time out of my day to explain to you why religion is NOT the same as the Tooth Fairy.  If you still want to continue this "everyone is stupid, except me" line of discourse, I will have to place you on the ignore list.

Religion is a set of beliefs about the way the world works, morality, and overall universe.  It provides a compass on how to live one's ENTIRE LIFE.  The Tooth Fairy is a single event make belief character.

A belief in religion is not a belief in an imaginary friend... Buddhism does not have ANY view of a being that watches over us and judges us.  For you to simplify it to such a ridiculous notion shows your disdain for people of faith.

I hope this helps.
(Or you just trolled me... congrats)


You substituted belief in religion for belief in god.  I say something, and you formulate an argument against something similar, but not what I said.  You said earlier that someone can't disprove the existence of god.  I can say the same about the tooth fairy.
 
2013-04-26 05:18:56 PM

FloydA: NostroZ:
I find that a PERSONAL belief in a higher being alleviates the insecurities that come from thoughts about death and our overall lonesome purposeless existence.


Speak for yourself.  My existence is neither purposeless nor lonesome, and I am not at all insecure about the thought of dying.  It's going to happen, and in 10,000 years, this will all be just another fossil layer.  I won't care, I won't know, because I'll be dead.

I'd bet that nearly all of the "insecurity that comes from thoughts about death" stems from a belief that consciousness actually survives, and things will be unpleasant.  I don't think that consciousness survives death, so the fact that I will someday be dead doesn't bother me. I won't realize it.


Hmmmm... I wonder why people ALL OVER THE WORLD have religions...  I wonder if there's something GOOD to it.

People all over the world have herpes and stinky armpits too. That's not necessarily a good recommendation for something.


Doubtful I could have knocked down the bandwagon fallacy better myself.
 
2013-04-26 05:23:04 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: The Billdozer: Inflatable Rhetoric: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: It's rude and you cannot prove that G-d does NOT exist, but go ahead and insult people left and right.

Ooooh, was I rude? How would I not be rude? Pretend to believe? I could enter just white space in comments, would that be ok with you? What about your condescending reference to the online dictionary? Was that polite?

I did not mean to condescend, though I'm sure it came off as such.  It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.  I did not take your confusion between the two terms as sincere.  I apologize.

Hopefully, now that the two terms are right in front of you, you can see why calling a religion a superstition undercuts a lot of the positive characteristics of religion.

Religion does more harm than good, and always has.  Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies.  How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends?  And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.

You have made it completely known that you're the coolest guy around and that you are the second coming of Dawkins. Please enlighten us more, as my life would be more futile and bleak without you delivering the truth about invisible friends and fairy tales. I only hope that the blood does not rush from your most evolved brain due to the non-stop oral favors your massive dong must be receiving.

You must have been on the debate team, right?


I'm just acknowledging a man among the mindless children who fear the confusing and the dark. I'm grateful that such a supreme intellect used a moment of his precious finite time to even formulate a response to me, as your ability to destroy religious beliefs is better suited elsewhere. I beg a thousand pardons for even involving you in my utterly meaningless primordial and unenlightened thoughts.
 
2013-04-26 05:27:54 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: You substituted belief in religion for belief in god. I say something, and you formulate an argument against something similar, but not what I said. You said earlier that someone can't disprove the existence of god. I can say the same about the tooth fairy.


The tooth fairy does not have a single person claiming to be the word of god, nor does it have any guidance for a good life, which religion does.  Your purposefully using the silliest thing as a comparison, which shows how little you respect religion or understand how it helps in EVERY FACET of human life.

You're obviously trolling for an atheist v. believer argument.

I have better things to do than have some angry kid who just learned that Santa is not real go around telling all the kids that they've been lied to (vs. realizing how much good came from Santa and your parents).

Have a good weekend buddy.
I'm done with Fark till Monday.
 
2013-04-26 05:31:11 PM

NostroZ: have better things to do than have some angry kid who just learned that Santa is not real


Way to spoil it for the believers, asshat.
 
2013-04-26 05:33:12 PM

The Billdozer: I'm just acknowledging a man among the mindless children who fear the confusing and the dark. I'm grateful that such a supreme intellect used a moment of his precious finite time to even formulate a response to me, as your ability to destroy religious beliefs is better suited elsewhere. I beg a thousand pardons for even involving you in my utterly meaningless primordial and unenlightened thoughts.


I not sure but I sense just a titch of sarcasm in your comments.
 
2013-04-26 05:36:53 PM

NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion does more harm than good, and always has. Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies. How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends? And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.

This is the last time, since I don't have to prove anything to you...  as a favor to a fellow human, I will take time out of my day to explain to you why religion is NOT the same as the Tooth Fairy.  If you still want to continue this "everyone is stupid, except me" line of discourse, I will have to place you on the ignore list.

Religion is a set of beliefs about the way the world works, morality, and overall universe.  It provides a compass on how to live one's ENTIRE LIFE.  The Tooth Fairy is a single event make belief character.

A belief in religion is not a belief in an imaginary friend... Buddhism does not have ANY view of a being that watches over us and judges us.  For you to simplify it to such a ridiculous notion shows your disdain for people of faith.

I hope this helps.
(Or you just trolled me... congrats)


why do you need religion as a compass?  why does there need to be a god in order to lead a virtuous and productive life?
 
2013-04-26 05:43:42 PM

NostroZ: Farking Canuck: NostroZ: It was a reaction to insulting religion as superstition.

Is it insulting to a salmon to be called a fish?

Yes, you Canuck.
I thought you had more manners than that in Canada.

A fish does not have feelings...

i18.photobucket.com
So it's ok to eat them?

 
2013-04-26 05:46:44 PM

johnny queso: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion does more harm than good, and always has. Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies. How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends? And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.

This is the last time, since I don't have to prove anything to you...  as a favor to a fellow human, I will take time out of my day to explain to you why religion is NOT the same as the Tooth Fairy.  If you still want to continue this "everyone is stupid, except me" line of discourse, I will have to place you on the ignore list.

Religion is a set of beliefs about the way the world works, morality, and overall universe.  It provides a compass on how to live one's ENTIRE LIFE.  The Tooth Fairy is a single event make belief character.

A belief in religion is not a belief in an imaginary friend... Buddhism does not have ANY view of a being that watches over us and judges us.  For you to simplify it to such a ridiculous notion shows your disdain for people of faith.

I hope this helps.
(Or you just trolled me... congrats)

why do you need religion as a compass?


Well, it wouldn't be much good as a sextant.
 
2013-04-26 05:48:31 PM

jso2897: johnny queso: NostroZ: Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion does more harm than good, and always has. Adults need to think like adults, not believe in magic sky fairies. How does belief in god(s) differ from belief in the Tooth Fairy?

As for being rude, how is that to be avoided when a grown human yammers on about imaginary friends? And, I don't have to disprove god unless you can disprove the Tooth Fairy.

This is the last time, since I don't have to prove anything to you...  as a favor to a fellow human, I will take time out of my day to explain to you why religion is NOT the same as the Tooth Fairy.  If you still want to continue this "everyone is stupid, except me" line of discourse, I will have to place you on the ignore list.

Religion is a set of beliefs about the way the world works, morality, and overall universe.  It provides a compass on how to live one's ENTIRE LIFE.  The Tooth Fairy is a single event make belief character.

A belief in religion is not a belief in an imaginary friend... Buddhism does not have ANY view of a being that watches over us and judges us.  For you to simplify it to such a ridiculous notion shows your disdain for people of faith.

I hope this helps.
(Or you just trolled me... congrats)

why do you need religion as a compass?

Well, it wouldn't be much good as a sextant.


dude, they have gps now, god-based positioning system.
 
2013-04-26 05:52:29 PM
As someone how has tried to kill themselves because of religion and believing god hated them this article is complete bullshiat
 
2013-04-26 05:55:07 PM
I think humans are designed and or evolved to have spiritual beliefs.  I think believing in a spiritual realms/God/gods, etc is a perfectly normal, natural, healthy part of the human psyche...

Just my random 2 cents worth of opinion...
 
2013-04-26 06:06:27 PM

NostroZ: Farking Canuck: As for an insulting statement ... well I suppose some may find the truth insulting but that will never stop me from stating it.

Who's truth?
Your truth...  which is an opinion.

An opinion which is insulting is not truth, it's simply rude.


That believing in the supernatural without evidence (i.e. having faith) is being superstitious.

I notice you did not take me up on the challenge of presenting differences between theism and other superstitions.

P.S. It is possible for superstitions to be correct.
 
2013-04-26 06:19:33 PM
Belief in God can

... cause farkers to whine at no end.
 
2013-04-26 06:28:06 PM

NostroZ: FloydA: Hmmmm... I wonder why people ALL OVER THE WORLD have religions... I wonder if there's something GOOD to it.

People all over the world have herpes and stinky armpits too. That's not necessarily a good recommendation for something.

I believe you're confusing a SOCIAL TOOL (religion) for BIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION of the human body and interaction with bacteria.

You're comparing apples to oranges, friend.


You suggested that since religion is common worldwide, religion must be "good."  I pointed out that this was not a logical argument.  Many things are common but are not good.

Also: the phrase "comparing apples to oranges" does not mean what you think it means.  I made no "comparison" at all.

Also, also: in my experience, anyone who uses the word "friend" the way you just did, usually turns out to be an extremely unfriendly and generally unpleasant person.  If you hate me for pointing out your logical fallacies, just be honest about it.  Don't call me "friend," it makes you look duplicitous.
 
2013-04-26 06:30:04 PM

OnlyM3: Belief in God can
... cause farkers to whine at no end.


Quite obviously, but you're welcome here anyway.
 
2013-04-26 06:38:45 PM
Horseshiat.

/Christian
//Depressed
///yourenothelping.jpg
 
2013-04-26 06:47:04 PM
Sometimes I wish I believed in the comforting lies of religion(s), but I think actually having a clue how the world REALLY works is better.
 
2013-04-26 06:53:05 PM

hitlersbrain: The Billdozer: I'm just acknowledging a man among the mindless children who fear the confusing and the dark. I'm grateful that such a supreme intellect used a moment of his precious finite time to even formulate a response to me, as your ability to destroy religious beliefs is better suited elsewhere. I beg a thousand pardons for even involving you in my utterly meaningless primordial and unenlightened thoughts.

I not sure but I sense just a titch of sarcasm in your comments.


Never!
 
2013-04-26 07:24:51 PM

Infinite Entropy: Sometimes I wish I believed in the comforting lies of religion(s), but I think actually having a clue how the world REALLY works is better.


No you don't. Do not wish to be ignorant. If you need comforting buy a dog.
 
2013-04-26 08:50:29 PM

cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.


That can't be allowed! Everyone must wallow in the emptyness I feel in life! fark them for their comfort!
 
2013-04-26 11:03:08 PM
Uh huh.

Theist to family: Life sucks, I'm going to kill myself.
Family: Don't do it or you'll suffer whatever torment our sect believes in.
Theist to self: Like I care. *kills self*

Atheist to family: Life sucks, I'm going to kill myself.
Family: Let's get you the help you need.
*doesn't kill self*
 
2013-04-27 12:41:32 AM

Cytokine Storm: Man I want to believe in a deity, an afterlife, anything!  Most days I'm ok but sometimes late at night when trying to sleep, my stupid brain turns to thoughts of mortality followed by a sinking feeling of despair as I realize that before I know it, I'll be winked out of existence.  I'm actually jealous of religious people in that regard, the comfort it must bring the to know that there is something after, that it's not the end.  I'm not even that old, I've still got half my life left (hopefully), but I keep imagining myself in my twilight years clinging and fighting tooth and nail to stay alive one more day.

Oh well, I figure I'll eventually adapt and cope, my brain will just reach acceptance and all that.  Either that or maybe the dementia that runs in my family will make it so I don't even realize what's happening.


images.wikia.com
 
2013-04-27 12:48:56 AM

Novart: That can't be allowed! Everyone must wallow in the emptyness I feel in life! fark them for their comfort!


Most atheists do not begrudge the fact that theists' imaginary friends bring them real comfort.

The issue is when we have to suffer with laws based off their cave-man morals. Our children's science classes being corrupted with their religions. And we have to listen to them spewing their crap trying to "save" us.

If the religious did not inflict their delusions on the rest of us they would not hear from the rest of us.
 
2013-04-27 12:54:42 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: Horseshiat.

/Christian
//Depressed
///yourenothelping.jpg


Good.  I'm not weird then

/that's a lie
//knowthatfeelbro.png
 
2013-04-27 09:20:18 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: vabeard: Katolu: cman: Religion does have its psychological pluses on people.

Belief that there is a reason to this chaotic thing called "life" comforts people.

That's reasonable. If religion gets a person through life and keeps them mostly sane, there's no real harm.

True.  My mother, a very rational woman, was also very strong in her faith.  Of course we are Episcopalians.

/free will and moral choice.

Word. If I was still a Christian, I'd be Episcopalian. The fun ritual and pomp of Catholicism without all the guilt!

/plus wine!
//stupid Baptists


Isn't Episcopalian just diet Catholicism?

Farking Canuck: Novart: That can't be allowed! Everyone must wallow in the emptyness I feel in life! fark them for their comfort!

Most atheists do not begrudge the fact that theists' imaginary friends bring them real comfort.

The issue is when we have to suffer with laws based off their cave-man morals. Our children's science classes being corrupted with their religions. And we have to listen to them spewing their crap trying to "save" us.

If the religious did not inflict their delusions on the rest of us they would not hear from the rest of us.


This SOOOOO much! If you people with religion would just leave all your bullshiat in your churches instead of trying to force it into our schools and government, and gleefully down our throats, you wouldn't be catching shiat about it!

You happen to believe in all the dogma that goes with your particular god/religion, fine, don't eat pork or don't bathe except on Saturdays or always hop up and down the aisles in church to prove you have the "HOLY SPIRIT", whatever... just stop trying to force those of us that DO NOT believe in your dogma to pretend we do to make your crazy azzes feel a better about yourselves for "SAVING" us from ourselves!

Some of us do just fine without having a god or religion, I know you guys have a REALLY hard time believing that, but most of us have been exposed to religion and have rejected it for whatever individual reasons we have.

Believe what gives you whatever comfort you need, that's cool. Try to legislate me with your beliefs, very not cool!
 
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