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(Huffington Post)   US Ambassador to Aussies: Keep pirating Game Of Thrones and we will cut off your freakin' sword hand   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 80
    More: Dumbass, Ambassador to Aussies, U.S. Ambassador, Jeffrey Bleich, United States, Australians, pirated games, fictional universes, iTunes Store  
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13566 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2013 at 12:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-04-26 11:45:58 AM
15 votes:
Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.
2013-04-26 12:22:09 PM
13 votes:
"If the 4 million people who watched 'Game of Thrones' legally had been illegal downloaders - the show would be off the air and there would never have been a season 3," Bleich said.

Except that's not what happened, HBO is more popular than ever, and Game of Thrones is wildly profitable.  So if you focus just on the metric of downloading, and ignore everything else about how business works, that attitude makes sense.  However, if you look at every metric of what "profitable" and "successful" means, downloaders aren't stealing from you, they are people whose price point has not yet been met.  There is zero demand from them at the current price point, and they only exist because your supply curve is fixed with legal constraints, but technology makes it easy to circumvent your supply curve.
2013-04-26 12:06:09 PM
8 votes:

justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.


That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.
2013-04-26 12:25:14 PM
6 votes:
I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian
2013-04-26 12:23:39 PM
6 votes:
GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate.  Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date.  Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free
2013-04-26 12:23:48 PM
5 votes:

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


And heaven forbid HBO allow people without out cable to subscribe.
2013-04-26 12:31:40 PM
4 votes:
Oblig

Link

s3.amazonaws.com
2013-04-26 11:30:54 AM
4 votes:
Because NO ONE is pirating GoT here in the States...no one at all.

Definitely not me.
2013-04-26 01:02:26 PM
3 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: If you dont want to do it that way then you dont want to watch it bad enough. Just wait for the DVDs to come out and stop whining.


The 90s called. They want your moronically inefficient distribution models back.
2013-04-26 12:57:16 PM
3 votes:

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


Man, it's ain't even only the US.  Other countries do the same thing only even worse, because they assume there's no market for their stuff outside the borders.  Sometimes they purposely region restrict stuff, other times they just use some distribution model that's impossible to get membership in without having accounts in certain banks or something like that, but either way, it's a roadblock, and so people will pirate.  There's also tons of expat-aimed pages about how to get media when living in the "wrong" country for this reason.

Some stuff I manage to to get "legally" with the quotes on, I pay for it, but I have to jump through hoops to find a way to pay and I have to fake my location with a VPN.  If the stuff is available for torrent, torrent is definitely the easier way to go.

Speaking of which... iTunes. Yeah, some of the shows I want, I can get via iTunes. But I can't pay for them with US money or a US credit card, so I have to jump through various hoops to buy iTunes gift cards over the internet (iTunes gift cards are restricted by country).  It's stupid. Basically some middleman on the internet is getting some money from me (they charge overhead, it's how THEY make money) that either iTunes or the show creator could be getting, if only they'd make the stuff available to my locale.  Heck, they could charge me overhead for "foreign" points if they want, but the idea just never occurs.
2013-04-26 12:45:53 PM
3 votes:

Mosrael: The writers and HBO themselves basically welcome pirate views. Since they aren't stuck in the pre-Internet darkages (aside from their pricing model, seriously, get it together HBO).

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/07/176338400/pirates-steal-game-of-throne s- why-hbo-doesnt-mind

Viral advertising is the best kind of advertising and the more people who see it, legally or not, the better.


I've also heard claims that HBO is stuck with its godawful distribution model due to contracts with the cable companies and certain HBO executives being old and fearing change.  Basically they're risk averse and like that Comcast just pays them a set amount of money every year.  So some of the folk at HBO are welcoming the piracy because they can go make charts that say "If 70% of the pirates bought our shows at 3 dollars per episode, we'd all have gold plated yachts, so fark these deals with the cable companies!"
2013-04-26 12:39:02 PM
3 votes:

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


The RIAA and MPAA aren't going to fark you.
2013-04-26 12:36:52 PM
3 votes:

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.
2013-04-26 12:28:30 PM
3 votes:
Since when did this become the unites states of HBO? This isn't something the us government should be overly concerned about.
2013-04-26 12:25:20 PM
3 votes:

Endive Wombat: That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks. You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


Damn it, we've been doing business this way for the last 60 years, we are not going to change out business model now.  We'll just hire a few congress people to put a stop to technological progress.
2013-04-26 02:51:23 PM
2 votes:

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Nobody is screwing anyone. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy it!!!! Jesus what a sense of entitlement in this country. Also, the Sansa chapters sucked and the Tyrion chapters ruled. That is all.


Nah, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, instead of doing without.

When they offer an HBO-Go system where I can buy it direct through the internet, then I'll pay them legitimately.  Until then, screw it.  I'm not paying $65 a month with an extra $20 a month for premium channels for ONE show that only has ten episodes in a six month span.
2013-04-26 02:46:06 PM
2 votes:

itazurakko: Teiritzamna: I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.

People are criticizing HBO (and similar companies) for turning down easy money.

The important difference with the sports car is that sports cars are hard to steal.  Movies are pretty trivially easy to pirate. Like it or not, that definitely affects the market price of an item.  The music industry figured this out already.


24.media.tumblr.com
2013-04-26 02:40:44 PM
2 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: LowbrowDeluxe: Seriously, no one is debating what you said. No one has said that ever.

ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate. Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date. Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

sounds like someone did


Thanks Stealth...sometimes trolls go fishing and sometimes people feel like they need to be hooked.

LowBrow's idiotic wharrbargghhll, oven mitt wearing typing aside, yes, there are people who feel as if they are compelled to download stuff that isn't available for whatever reason.

Don't get me wrong, I understand being pissed off if there was a show or mp3 I really wanted to watch / see but couldn't, I'd be pissed. I'm just saying that I wouldn't try to justify my pirating by shifting the blame to someone else. Nut up and just admit you're taking it for free.
2013-04-26 02:03:41 PM
2 votes:

Mosrael: They'll learn eventually.  They still think creating a sort of pseudo scarcity model will give them the most money, which is absurd when talking about digital content.  When your supply is basically infinite and the costs of giving the product to people is miniscule you can practically give it away and at the end of the day still recreate the Scrooge McDuck swimming in gold scene of Duck Tails.  Once they realize this we'll have extremely cheap and readily available content without having to wait months for a season's conclusion.


Agreed. The same thing happened with music content. Prior to the advent of iTunes & Amazon, people were either forced to buy entire albums/CDs to listen to one favorite song...or they could record it from a friend's album/CD (or even off the radio). Once Apple & Amazon made individual songs conveniently available for legal purchase & download, people were more than happy to oblige. Sure, companies weren't getting ± $20 for a CD...but if it's a choice between getting $1 or $2 for a song vesus getting nothing from someone who obtained it elsewhere? Last time I checked, $1 was still greater than $0.

Now if book publishers could just realize an e-book costs less to produce/distribute than a physical book...
2013-04-26 01:42:22 PM
2 votes:

legion_of_doo: if you don't want to pay, don't watch it. is that so difficult?

sure, big corporation is the evil, so you'll just steal stuff to even out the score? that's bull shiat. pay your fair share if you are so keen on that.

or go read the books in your local library if you're so cheap. nobody promised you instant access to television shows as a God given right.


A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.
2013-04-26 12:57:42 PM
2 votes:
The problem's not Australians.  It's U.S. citizens with an Aussie VPN.

Not that I'd know about that of course.
2013-04-26 12:43:48 PM
2 votes:
That dude's more worried about GoT piracy than HBO.  Their biggest piracy concern is that people are putting up low quality versions that don't let people see the amazing production quality of the original material.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/03/31/hbo-thrones-piracy/
2013-04-26 12:39:53 PM
2 votes:
HBO set game of thrones up so that you are almost forced to pirate the damn thing if you want to see it on time and not buy their entire gotdamn cable channel.
2013-04-26 12:35:46 PM
2 votes:

ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.


Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.
2013-04-26 12:32:19 PM
2 votes:
Here's the full comic:

Link
2013-04-26 12:28:20 PM
2 votes:

Ennuipoet: Because NO ONE is pirating GoT here in the States...no one at all.

Definitely not me.


Seems Legit
2013-04-26 12:28:11 PM
2 votes:

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate.  Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date.  Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free

[bbsimg.ngfiles.com image 330x282]


Now you're just playing the idiot.  Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows".  If you can't, I feel sorry for you.
2013-04-26 12:22:38 PM
2 votes:
If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !
2013-04-26 08:55:59 PM
1 votes:

rugman11: Teufelaffe: rugman11: But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States

Actually the article doesn't say that.  It says that Australians only have to wait a few hours to access the episodes by "legitimate means", but it fails to specify what those means are.  If they're the same as they are in the US, i.e., you have to have a subscription to HBO, they're facing the same situation that people in the US are facing who want to watch it, but don't have HBO.

You're right.  I misread the article, apparently HBO is a cable channel in Australia


Yes - you have to install and then subscribe to Foxtel cable. and then pay a month extra charge to get their premium channel "showtime" which has HBO. According to wiki Foxtel is available to about 70% of Australian homes. But it is on itunes also.
2013-04-26 08:22:12 PM
1 votes:
BTW, Australia has been getting ripped off especially hard by big American media companies for decades. So eat shiat.
2013-04-26 07:38:40 PM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.

The question is, if HBO made available an episode for download at full resolution for say $2 per episode, would most of the 'pirates' decide to pay for the product or would they still just want it for free?


If the quality was good and it didn't have asinine draconian DRM protections (you installed a new monitor, sorry, you must re-purchase this episode) then yes, I think a lot of us would pay for it.  Even at $3 an episode it would work out to a lot less than what cable companies expect us to pay to get HBO, which is ultimately the deciding factor.

Yes, a lot of pirates pirate things because they can, but just as many pirate TV shows because they don't watch that much TV.  Certainly they don't watch enough TV to justify paying nearly a hundred dollars a month just for maybe a dozen TV shows they actually follow.  For most of those folks, the internet has replaced TV as what they do to waste time.  Why pay for cable if it's just going to be turned off for 23 hours out of the average day?

You know what would increase the number of people who would pay for it?  Do like Steam does, and allow us to preload the episode encrypted onto our computers.  When its finally release time, each person has to download some trivial amount of data to complete the install and then let their computer decrypt it.  That way even people with crappy internet connections could obtain episodes in HD and enjoy them without a huge delay.  That would be worth some extra money right there.
2013-04-26 05:39:22 PM
1 votes:
Aussies to US Ambassador: fark you.
2013-04-26 04:40:49 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: firefly212: Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues...

If the titles are so bad with massive bugs and playability issues, then why are they bothering to pirate them?


Because once the package is opened/paid for online/etc, it cannot (or takes an act of farking congress to) be returned, no matter how large of a pile of shiat or how buggy the game actually is.
60 bucks is a big gamble with the way games are made now-a-days. I am not paying that kinda change to be a farking beta tester.
2013-04-26 04:14:44 PM
1 votes:
This just goes to show that many companies aren't run by business people. An actual business person when presented with the opportunity to have their product distributed around the world at very little cost with the chance to make boatloads of revenue would be all over that opportunity like flies on shiat. If HBO was run by someone who had any clue about business they'd set up a site for people from around the world to be able to watch Game of Thrones for a few bucks a month, and it would be a huge cash cow.
2013-04-26 03:58:09 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: firefly212: Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues...

If the titles are so bad with massive bugs and playability issues, then why are they bothering to pirate them?


Because people will put up with a lot more crap if they're not paying for it.

Free game - "Man this is buggy and shiatty, but I didn't pay for it, so meh."
$60 game - "This is buggy and shiatty AND THAT IS WORSE THAN HITLER AND I MUST TELL EVERYONE I KNOW."

/I'm pretty sure that the EA forums are the largest concentration of butthurt on Earth.
2013-04-26 03:50:18 PM
1 votes:

Teiritzamna: Mercutio74: But, when they're faced with a problem like rampant downloading and the opportunity to make small and probably inexpensive adjustments to their business model, they call the lawyers and start suing individual copyright infringers (or worse, making silly and ineffective anti-piracy ads). A trillion dollar industry is literally hamstrung by torrents. Really?

I would say they are stuck in a red queen scenario - they believe that they must continue to drop the hammer because if they dont then they really will get hamstrung by torrents.  I.e. they have seen what happened to porno and are terrified.

I doubt this is really going to happen to them, but it appears to be their thinking.


I think they're more terrified about what happened to the music industry.  Like television, the music industry was based on bundling (albums) and the vast majority of the industry profits came from bundling (more than 90% of profits came from album sales).  When the industry capitulated to pirates and started putting there product online through iTunes and other outlets, album sales plummeted because people stopped buying the bundle and started buying the singles.  The old music industry was killed because they couldn't just change the model for pirates, they had to change the model for everybody.

Now, the music industry obviously isn't entirely dead, but what's important to remember is that making and distributing a song is far cheaper than making and distributing a television show.  Artists can make it on their own under the new model in a way they couldn't before.  Some no-name Korean artist writes a weird but catchy song, sticks the video on YouTube for nothing and makes $10 million.  You can't do that with television.  It's expensive, and bundling shows together (and networks together) helps to offset the risk inherent to the business.  Television is not an industry that can survive unbundled.
2013-04-26 03:41:30 PM
1 votes:

Teufelaffe: rugman11: But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States

Actually the article doesn't say that.  It says that Australians only have to wait a few hours to access the episodes by "legitimate means", but it fails to specify what those means are.  If they're the same as they are in the US, i.e., you have to have a subscription to HBO, they're facing the same situation that people in the US are facing who want to watch it, but don't have HBO.


You're right.  I misread the article, apparently HBO is a cable channel in Australia
2013-04-26 03:13:15 PM
1 votes:

LasersHurt: So I guess your argument of "you're not entitled to it if the owners don't offer you a way to buy it that doesn't suck horribly" sits very poorly with me. How about the content producers make it EASIER to get the content, so people do, money comes in, and everyone is happy?


Ah.  Ok a couple things.  First, from a "lets design a good system" sure, man, i think you are 100% correct.  I thought i was making it very clear i think HBO's system is dumb as hell, and is literally leaving money on the table.

My issue, however is that HBO has the right to leave money on the table.  Like any property owner, they have the right to ask crazy ass prices for their products.  And the consumers have every right to say "screw that."  Is this optimal?  Oh hell no.  And i would much rather what you are advocating, a more reasonable pricing and distribution system.

However, my only argument, really, is that people who see the above interaction and say "HBO made me download it illegally" are making a ridiculous statement.  I see that as being a totally separate issue to whether everyone would be happier if HBO stopped sucking and let people buy the shows ala carte.
2013-04-26 03:06:05 PM
1 votes:

Teiritzamna: Infernalist: Also, mister Ambassador, here is the President of Programming for HBO, talking about the show you're so valiantly defending from downloaders:

Oh for the love of pete - read above.  I really am not attempting to lodge a valiant defense of Game of Thrones.  I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without payingIt forced them to make the choice not to pay for it.  Obtaining it without paying for it, however, is because the parties in question still wanted it - or as is often implied here, felt they had a right to it.


Well, that's certainly true. That's not entirely the point, however. As another poster pointed out:

mongbiohazard: ...the old guard media companies have made things difficult for many customers like him to pay for the show legally in a timely fashion even if they want to quite a lot, and that is not only incentivising piracy for those people but actually going further and making it the best way for them to consume that media - with or without cash in hand.



Yes, piracy is illegal and it's theft and all that without question. That makes it wrong.
Yes, content providers and distributors, rather than respond to the demands of their target consumers, create an environment that more significantly encourages said target consumers to steal rather than to buy. That makes it stupid.
2013-04-26 03:04:28 PM
1 votes:

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: People ITT: "A lot of people pirate the current season of GoT because HBO has made it difficult to get legally."
You: "Oh, so because HBO isn't catering to your desired delivery model you think everything should be free!?"
People ITT: "Uh, no, that's not what we said at all."
You: "Buying the crown jewels! Cat poop coffee! Club goods! Rivalrous goods! LOOK AT MEEEEE...I WENT TO COLLEGE AND I'M SO SMAAART!"


Actually this whole thing was based on the argument: I was "forced" to obtain game of thrones illegally.  Of course people will do illegal stuff because they don't want to pay for something - if you notice i high-fived a guy for having the balls to just say that. 

As to the rest, fark it man, i like analogies and i figure if we are gonna discuss something, it doesn't hurt to know what we are talking about.  I assume that everyone i am speaking to is smart.  I suppose i could dumb things down but i figure that is much more condescending.  Also, more importantly, i am an obnoxious pedant - it's totally why i am on fark.
2013-04-26 02:59:39 PM
1 votes:

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.

Perhaps i am just not getting your argument.  Explain why they are not comparable, without invoking the irrelevant distinction between rivalrous private goods and non-rivalrous club goods.

So assume your point is correct, then argue how it's wrong? No thanks.

No good sir - you are conflating the distinction between whether a product is rivalrous  - i.e. can many people use the same thing without diminishing it, and whether it is excludable - i.e. are there mechanisms to prevent people from using the product without permission.

However, from your response it take it you are a believer in the concept that non-rivalrous goods should not be excludable - that you are in fact against the idea of club goods.  If that is the case, then i suppose the output is that you believe club goods like IP are always worth 0 (non-excludable goods are pretty much the definition of free).  I suppose then, sure fine, any price for, say a TV show would be too high, and any attempt to exclude would be improper.

is that your argument?


I can tell you think you're smart, but you're failing miserably at communicating that to the rest of us.

People ITT: "A lot of people pirate the current season of GoT because HBO has made it difficult to get legally."
You: "Oh, so because HBO isn't catering to your desired delivery model you think everything should be free!?"
People ITT: "Uh, no, that's not what we said at all."
You: "Buying the crown jewels! Cat poop coffee! Club goods! Rivalrous goods!  LOOK AT MEEEEE...I WENT TO COLLEGE AND I'M SO SMAAART!"
2013-04-26 02:49:53 PM
1 votes:
BF gets HBO just for GoT and then cancels it (and I pay him half of the utilities). I buy the blu-rays when they come out.

I have noticed that a few days after the episode is aired, people post lots of clips on YouTube. I'm not saying you can get the entire unadulterated episode, but the best stuff is there for sure.

Am I the only one who has watched this S3 E4 sequence on YouTube like 20 times already?
Do not watch if you don't want to be spoiled by one of the most epic things ever shown on television.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afzEd-fCWq0
2013-04-26 02:49:50 PM
1 votes:

BgJonson79: ha-ha-guy: Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.

I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.

So if you were a content provider, you'd be okay with people infringing your copyright?


If I were a content provider, I'd make it as easy as possible for people to access my content. You see, I'd want their money, so I'd want as many options as possible to distribute my content in exchange for their money. I'd want my content in as many countries and in as many formats as consumers showed an interest in. If a guy in Budapest wants DVD's, I want him to buy my stuff on DVD. If a guy in the U.S. wants to see my stuff on HBO via cable, I'd want my stuff on HBO. If a guy in Portugal wanted to download something I'd created I'd want him to be able to buy it and save it straight to his PC. If some guy traveling via ocean liner wants to watch my stuff while crossing the Pacific, I'd want my content streaming to him via satellite.

I can't say I'd be "ok" with people infringing my copyright, but I would do all I could to discourage it while accepting that I cannot entirely prevent it. I'd focus on making it more widely available and affordable in the hopes of maximizing legitimate purchases.
2013-04-26 02:48:15 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Theaetetus:

Is The Oatmeal selling the pirated GoT episodes?  Or making money off of them?

No?

Is he distributing them?
Yes?


Then it has farking nothing at farking all to do with the funnyjunk thing and is not even close to being a similar situation or ironic in any way whatsoever.

Both copyright infringement. Both with the infringer making money off of advertising. You're right, nothing at all similar there. [eyeroll]



What?!?

Uhhhh, how exactly does him writing a comic about it being a pain in the ass for him to pay for GOT translate in to him distributing GOT? He wrote a comic about it, not posted a rip of it to his site for his visitors to download for free...

The only thing he made money from off of advertising is people viewing his own creation, the comic. Are you suggesting that anyone who mentions GOT in something they write is infringing on HBO's copyright? That's not how speech works in this country. Yet.
2013-04-26 02:29:08 PM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: The question is, if HBO made available an episode for download at full resolution for say $2 per episode, would most of the 'pirates' decide to pay for the product or would they still just want it for free?


Personally I'd buy it, if it's something I want to watch.  It helps ensure similar content is made in the future, it gives money to the creators, it means I'll get a proper copy of the video (plus the video will be what the title claims it is!) AND it means I don't have to visit sketchy websites that are probably trying to infect me with viruses.

In short, for $2? Hell yeah. It's a LOT less hassle.

This is why people happily buy music now that they've figured out that the proper model is akin to the cassette single rather than the $20 CD.

There will probably always be some segment of the population happy to steal (students with no money, etc) but most people with a normal income who don't want to spend all kinds of time searching and don't feel like taking risks will just pay their $2.

I pay for content like this NOW, even if I'm still breaking the law by lying about my location to do it.
2013-04-26 02:28:30 PM
1 votes:

Teiritzamna: The answer would of course be to say: Hey car dealer (and HBO) you are a total moron and I would not buy all that crap. Taking the car, however? That is saying, hey your system of distribution is balls ass stupid (which trust me i think it is) but i have a right to that sweet sweet vehicle.


What if you just make a copy of the car and use that to drive around?
2013-04-26 02:19:05 PM
1 votes:

justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.


Pretty much this.
Update your damn distribution model, morons.

FTA: "Neil Gane, managing director of the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft"
Neil, I have a problem with your misnomer of an organization. Just because someone has a copy of something, doesn't mean they stole your precious copyright. Hell, people that legally DVR or watch the damn show don't own your copyright either. There is no reasoning with these money grubbing farkers.
2013-04-26 02:06:35 PM
1 votes:
"If the 4 million people who watched 'Game of Thrones' legally had been illegal downloaders - the show would be off the air and there would never have been a season 3," Bleich said. ($1 = 0.9697 Australian dollars)


That's not true. I am subscribed to HBO solely so I can watch GOT... and I also "pirate" the episodes, so I can watch them how I like, on the machine of my choice in my own home when I wish to. TV's aren't the only device people watch shows on anymore. But I like the show enough, and the production values are so good I don't want to just not pay them for it. Within my means I support the best media I consume, whether I pirate it or not.

So I am a pirate AND I'm paying for the show.

And I know other people who do the same thing. So while I'm sure many of those "illegal downloaders" are surely not paying, I'm sure many others are. Piracy is not as simple as "X number of people are downloading it, so that means Y amount of sales were lost." I never would have bothered subscribing to HBO for GOT if I hadn't pirated the first two episodes (I was late to the GOT thing) because a buddy of mine kept insisting I give it a try. I did, and I liked it so much I signed up for HBO to watch the rest of the season. And each season I sign back up for HBO when GOT comes back and cancel it after the season finale.
2013-04-26 02:03:00 PM
1 votes:

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.

[thebreakthrough.org image 237x213]

Sorry, but how? It's not a limited commodity, you can multiply it infinitely for free.

However, the distinction between club goods and private goods is irrelevant to you argument though.  The argument was that someone who does not want to pay for a thing should, in fact, go without. You responded that they may be unable to pay.  Why this is a justification for why they should not go without is confusing to me.  It seems to miss the point that whatever the reason (personal distaste at the distribution system, lack of funds, hatred of HBO) if you do not want to pay for the offered good, the proper option is to forgo, not to obtain without paying. 

I agree that you SHOULD pay, if you can at all. And I don't mean "have the cash," either, I mean if there IS a mechanism for payment at all.
 
There is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it.


You do realize that this argument applies just as well to private goods as it does to club goods, correct?  I generally hate to analogize between them, but this argument would apply just as well to say a sports car.  The fact that it is rivalrous has little to do with the fact that "there is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it"


So if the only way for you to buy that sports car where you are is to also buy four school buses, a Raiders-Themed RV, six Moroccan child slaves and a 64 ounce big gulp you wouldn't think of that as a somewhat flawed sales model? I don't contend that is grounds for theft of a sports car but I could understand why someone would steal the car and leave a bag of cash equal to 15% over the SMRP of the car in its place.
2013-04-26 02:00:04 PM
1 votes:

LowbrowDeluxe: I say this, because anyone with a 2nd grade grasp of the language could easily figure out that there are several implied caveats to that statement.


Those caveats do not rationally exist, because it's such a common argument that is made.  The people making it do not understand that you want those caveats to exist, or they would not use that particular phrase in such a cavalier fashion.  The fact that you want them to exist does not mean that they do.  It is the comprehension of those using the statements that must be addressed, not necessarily yours.
2013-04-26 01:56:09 PM
1 votes:

Elzar: I pay the iron price


Rape & pillage the HBO studios to get the series?.
2013-04-26 01:52:46 PM
1 votes:
I pay the iron price

/ have VPN, will travel

24.media.tumblr.com
2013-04-26 01:45:58 PM
1 votes:

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.

[thebreakthrough.org image 237x213]


Sorry, but how? It's not a limited commodity, you can multiply it infinitely for free.

I agree that you SHOULD pay, if you can at all. And I don't mean "have the cash," either, I mean if there IS a mechanism for payment at all.

There is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it.
2013-04-26 01:45:16 PM
1 votes:
I'm not going to pay for cable.  Because I don't watch 99% of the shows.

I'm not going to pay for HBO Go, because "streaming" actually just means "buffering with 30 seconds progress every five minutes".  (Yes, I realize that it's not always HBO's fault.  What difference does it make?  It still means I'm paying for a service that I don't receive and cannot do anything about.)

I will happily pay full price for the DVDs or Blu-ray... once they come out next year a week before the next season starts.
 In the meantime, I want something that I can watch.  When I have time to watch it.  Without having to sit around and hope that some streaming server somewhere isn't horribly overloaded.

 Until that day arrives, I'm going to find a torrent and let the damn thing trickle down over the course of a week so I can watch it this weekend.
2013-04-26 01:42:20 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: impaler: Theaetetus: Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.

So because he complained about a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for him to buy GoT, he can't complain about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content? That makes no sense.

You're right, it does make no sense. Good thing I never said that he can't complain. I mean, that'd be crazy. Plus, it's not like I have censorship powers or something.

What I said is that it's ironic that someone who was embroiled in a big dispute over illegal infringement of his copyrighted works for commercial gain has a comic up about going to a site that illegally infringes copyrighted works for commercial gain.

Also, to your point, going to Funnyjunk is pretty easy for users. A lot easier than trying to remember individual URLs for all the individual comics. I guess consumers of comics like the Oatmeal who want an easy distribution model should just go to Funnyjunk?


It would only be ironic if in his comic about downloading GoT he had paid for doing so.  Then you have the irony of someone complaining about a third-party making money from illegally distributing their work while simultaneously helping a different third-party make money from illegally distributing work.
2013-04-26 01:42:01 PM
1 votes:

impaler: Oblig

Link

[s3.amazonaws.com image 398x1500]


Pretty much this. I would love it I could just get HBO alone. I don't want any other cable channel, just that one, and that's it.
2013-04-26 01:40:14 PM
1 votes:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


Amazon will ship books, CDs, and DVDs outside of the country. They will not ship electronics, video games, toys, or anything like that.

Of course there are usually other resellers for that stuff.  Where there's a market, usually there are sellers. Those sellers are just harder to find out and deal with.

The other option for stores that refuse to ship abroad is you can buy an account that will let you ship stuff to an address in the US that then will ship it to you. Expats do this frequently, of course you will pay $$$ for such services.  Again, it's the sort of thing that the original store could potentially offer and charge you for, but they don't, so enter the middlemen.
2013-04-26 01:35:47 PM
1 votes:
But Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey) is broke  : "Game of Thrones star Lena Headey has filed legal documents stating she is flat broke and has "less than $5 in her bank account".


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/04/game-of-thrones-star-lena-heade y- broke
2013-04-26 01:30:52 PM
1 votes:
Well then stop charging and arm and a leg for cable packages.
2013-04-26 01:21:34 PM
1 votes:

LowbrowDeluxe: Seriously, no one is debating what you said. No one has said that ever.


ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate. Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date. Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

sounds like someone did
2013-04-26 01:21:19 PM
1 votes:
It's just dumb for HBO to keep holding out on allowing subscriptions only to cable subscribers. The cable companies won't let you get HBO without a certain higher tier, and by the end of it all, you're paying over $100 a month for access to HBO.

The actual monthly fee for HBO ranges from $15 to $20 depending on your cable provider (Comcast is the highest, Charter is the lowest). The major cost comes from that requirement for other cable service. If HBO could circumvent that requirement, I'm certain they'd make a crapload of money from people paying $10 or $15 per month for an HBO Go subscription.

Or you can get Navi-X for Boxee, XBMC or Plex (which works on the Roku) and find a user list with Game of Thrones (or whatever you want) and directly stream it without too much concern about the DMCA coming to haunt you. If you don't want to wait for the stream, you can probably find an HBO live stream, and it might even work, and watch it as it airs.

Or, if you're more into downloading, you can pay $8 per month for a decent VPN and then go for the torrents. That's certainly cheaper than $100 per month. There's still risk involved (especially if you have a DNS leak) but until you get that first DMCA notice, it's all gravy. After that, you might be smart to pull back and seek other options.

I'd be fine with paying for HBO Go directly. The same goes for AMC and other cable channels. I just don't want to pay a hundred bucks or more per month for three channels I want, and several dozen I absolutely hate. It's not equitable. It's forcing me to buy something I don't need or want in order to get what I do want.

If restaurants did this, you'd have to buy the lobster dinner in order to order a piece of pie.
2013-04-26 01:19:32 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.


So because he complained about a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for him to buy GoT, he can't complain about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content? That makes no sense.
2013-04-26 01:11:47 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: impaler: Here's the full comic:

Link

More than a little ironic that Oatmeal was the one complaining about Funnyjunk stealing his stuff and making money off advertising.
[s3.amazonaws.com image 420x853]

/"But it's different when  I do it!"


The Oatmeal has a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for fans to buy?

No?

Then how is that ironic?
2013-04-26 01:08:58 PM
1 votes:

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


I'm glad you understand. Except for the blaming sometime else part. I don't. I download it because I enjoy it and don't want to pay for it (although I am considering buying the blu rays). I really don't give a shiat what other people think about it.

/YMMV
2013-04-26 01:08:43 PM
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


The industry simply refuses to move forward. They have a business model that rakes in plenty of cash and they refuse to change. Screw the consumers, they just want to keep milking their current model forever. It's short-sighted and stupid, but then again these are human beings we're talking about.
2013-04-26 01:05:53 PM
1 votes:
The thing with piracy is that it's about people's own moral code and where they feel they are in life.

Students pirate and always pirate. They don't have money, so they just grab it. Adults with money don't pirate, because they feel it's not moral to do so when they have a reasonable amount of income.

The problem with GoT is this: Let's say that I'm a fantasy nut. I love fantasy stuff, and people are telling me to watch GoT. Right, so I take a look at what to do to get the current series from Sky, which includes catching up, and it's as follows:-

£26.50/month. Minimum contract of 12 months. So, that's a total of £318, to see 10 hours of entertainment per year. The equivalent of paying £60 to see a movie.
Or
wait nearly a year after to buy it on DVD. After which, every plot element has been spoilt for you by other people.
Or
Buy a usenet account for 3 months for about £20 and grab the farker in DIVX format, within an hour of an episode finishing.

No-one cares if it's illegal. They do care about if the price is sensible for them. If it's not, they'll just grab it anyway.
2013-04-26 01:01:41 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: Since when did this become the unites states of HBO? This isn't something the us government should be overly concerned about.


This is actually a large part of what the Department of State does.  They advocate for US interests.  It is not always this high profile or accessible to the public, but they often are involved in representing us (citizen and citizen employers) to foreign governments.

Things like: "hey China, if you keep market dumping solar panels in an effort to corner the market, we will have to raise import tariffs to keep US manufacturers alive."
2013-04-26 12:59:51 PM
1 votes:

Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.


Extremely very much this too.  Digital content sellers (in various countries) would probably sell more if they had a per-show purchase model. Some places do, and it's great.  Print could stand to have a similar model available also - maybe I want to read THIS issue of the New Yorker, but I don't want to subscribe for the whole damn year.
2013-04-26 12:54:24 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: HBO set game of thrones up so that you are almost forced to pirate the damn thing if you want to see it on time and not buy their entire gotdamn cable channel.


You know what I did?

I just bought the whole damn cable channel. I kept it long enough to watch True Blood and then cancel. I always get Stars for free (Love me some Spartacus) and they discount it a fair amount.

If you dont want to do it that way then you dont want to watch it bad enough. Just wait for the DVDs to come out and stop whining.
2013-04-26 12:50:27 PM
1 votes:

Precision Boobery: I also enjoyed this caption:

This is a publicity image released by HBO of Sean Bean portraying Eddard Stark in a scene from the HBO series, "Game of Thrones."

WE DIDN'T PIRATE THIS PICTURE!  PUBLICITY IMAGE!  OFFICIALLY RELEASED!  DON'T HIT ME!


i.imgur.com
2013-04-26 12:42:49 PM
1 votes:
One of the HBO execs said he didn't really mind the mass pirating of GoT. His main objection was that the visual quality wouldn't be up to snuff.
http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/03/31/hbo-thrones-piracy/
2013-04-26 12:39:00 PM
1 votes:

Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian



No. I agree with everything you said, except that part.  I really want to watch Game of Thrones, but I don't, for the reasons you've listed here. But I (and you) am not entitled to watch the show. I am unwilling to purchase the service at the prices they offer, so I do not. Pirating the show only sends the message that the DRM isn't "good enough".
2013-04-26 12:35:39 PM
1 votes:

Igor Jakovsky: there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.


I biatched about my rates a while ago, and they kinda hinted they'd give me HBO but I was trying to bring my bill down, so I told them no. Kind of regret it, honestly. I probably gain anything in cash off by turning down HBO.

A friend just lets me borrow his HBOGO password, so I watch it the next day.
2013-04-26 12:34:51 PM
1 votes:

bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !


The show is better than the books. Yeah, I said it.

Weaver95: Since when did this become the unites states of HBO? This isn't something the us government should be overly concerned about.


Well, the copy right office is part of the US government. And it is nice to see feds sticking up for a US company.
2013-04-26 12:34:00 PM
1 votes:

Igor Jakovsky: there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.


You've got leverage because Comcast has competition in your area. Sadly, not every region has that advantage.
2013-04-26 12:33:32 PM
1 votes:
wasn't there a rumor not too long ago that HBO was considering to allow HBO GO to be available to non-HBO subscribers?
2013-04-26 12:33:15 PM
1 votes:
Good.  That should put a stop to this "piracy" thing.  Now we can focus on the real scourge:  inviting your non-HBO-having friends over to your house for a viewing party.  Your friends are criminals.  Thieving, freeloading vultures, the lot of them.
2013-04-26 12:26:26 PM
1 votes:

bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !


Honestly this season the people doing the writing for the show have started to prove they don't really need Martin to finish it up at this point.  They've made a lot of good decisions in terms of cutting out some of the secondary characters and streamlining the plot.  Odds are they can bring the series to a clean end even if Martin pulls a Robert Jordan.  Martin gets the credit for the world building, but he's only nice to have at this point.

/plus supposedly HBO made him provide an outline for the rest of the series before agreeing to film it, so they have the major plot lines all sketched out
2013-04-26 12:26:18 PM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate.  Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date.  Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free


bbsimg.ngfiles.com
2013-04-26 11:12:39 AM
1 votes:
Dude!  Spoilers!

Also, I view Australia kind of like he wildlings north of the wall...lawless.
 
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