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(Huffington Post)   US Ambassador to Aussies: Keep pirating Game Of Thrones and we will cut off your freakin' sword hand   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 360
    More: Dumbass, Ambassador to Aussies, U.S. Ambassador, Jeffrey Bleich, United States, Australians, pirated games, fictional universes, iTunes Store  
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13575 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2013 at 12:14 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



360 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-04-26 11:09:20 AM  
eff with our copyright laws at your own peril!!

Who do you think you are?! China?!
 
2013-04-26 11:12:39 AM  
Dude!  Spoilers!

Also, I view Australia kind of like he wildlings north of the wall...lawless.
 
2013-04-26 11:29:06 AM  
I thought they pretty much banned the internet in Australia.
 
2013-04-26 11:30:54 AM  
Because NO ONE is pirating GoT here in the States...no one at all.

Definitely not me.
 
2013-04-26 11:45:58 AM  
Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.
 
2013-04-26 12:06:09 PM  

justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.


That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.
 
2013-04-26 12:15:50 PM  
They should stick to The Sound of Music.
 
2013-04-26 12:17:18 PM  
Dragons are real
 
2013-04-26 12:18:07 PM  

I_C_Weener: Dude!  Spoilers!

Also, I view Australia kind of like he wildlings north of the wall...lawless.


Well it is now, good job!
 
2013-04-26 12:18:47 PM  
it is a penal colony, what did you expect?
 
2013-04-26 12:22:09 PM  
"If the 4 million people who watched 'Game of Thrones' legally had been illegal downloaders - the show would be off the air and there would never have been a season 3," Bleich said.

Except that's not what happened, HBO is more popular than ever, and Game of Thrones is wildly profitable.  So if you focus just on the metric of downloading, and ignore everything else about how business works, that attitude makes sense.  However, if you look at every metric of what "profitable" and "successful" means, downloaders aren't stealing from you, they are people whose price point has not yet been met.  There is zero demand from them at the current price point, and they only exist because your supply curve is fixed with legal constraints, but technology makes it easy to circumvent your supply curve.
 
2013-04-26 12:22:38 PM  
If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !
 
2013-04-26 12:23:39 PM  
GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate.  Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date.  Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free
 
2013-04-26 12:23:48 PM  

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


And heaven forbid HBO allow people without out cable to subscribe.
 
2013-04-26 12:25:14 PM  
I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian
 
2013-04-26 12:25:20 PM  

Endive Wombat: That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks. You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


Damn it, we've been doing business this way for the last 60 years, we are not going to change out business model now.  We'll just hire a few congress people to put a stop to technological progress.
 
2013-04-26 12:25:39 PM  

FreetardoRivera: it is a penal colony, what did you expect?


Penis.
 
2013-04-26 12:26:18 PM  

ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate.  Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date.  Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free


bbsimg.ngfiles.com
 
2013-04-26 12:26:26 PM  

bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !


Honestly this season the people doing the writing for the show have started to prove they don't really need Martin to finish it up at this point.  They've made a lot of good decisions in terms of cutting out some of the secondary characters and streamlining the plot.  Odds are they can bring the series to a clean end even if Martin pulls a Robert Jordan.  Martin gets the credit for the world building, but he's only nice to have at this point.

/plus supposedly HBO made him provide an outline for the rest of the series before agreeing to film it, so they have the major plot lines all sketched out
 
2013-04-26 12:26:28 PM  
http://throneroom.eu Just sayin'.

/always pays his debts
 
2013-04-26 12:28:11 PM  

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate.  Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date.  Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free

[bbsimg.ngfiles.com image 330x282]


Now you're just playing the idiot.  Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows".  If you can't, I feel sorry for you.
 
2013-04-26 12:28:20 PM  

Ennuipoet: Because NO ONE is pirating GoT here in the States...no one at all.

Definitely not me.


Seems Legit
 
2013-04-26 12:28:30 PM  
Since when did this become the unites states of HBO? This isn't something the us government should be overly concerned about.
 
2013-04-26 12:28:37 PM  
there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.
 
2013-04-26 12:30:23 PM  
Not a documentary on the last of Oz?
 
2013-04-26 12:31:05 PM  
The writers and HBO themselves basically welcome pirate views. Since they aren't stuck in the pre-Internet darkages (aside from their pricing model, seriously, get it together HBO).

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/07/176338400/pirates-steal-game-of-throne s- why-hbo-doesnt-mind

Viral advertising is the best kind of advertising and the more people who see it, legally or not, the better.
 
2013-04-26 12:31:40 PM  
Oblig

Link

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-04-26 12:32:19 PM  
Here's the full comic:

Link
 
2013-04-26 12:32:24 PM  
I will just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U3RE_NB0EA
 
2013-04-26 12:33:15 PM  
Good.  That should put a stop to this "piracy" thing.  Now we can focus on the real scourge:  inviting your non-HBO-having friends over to your house for a viewing party.  Your friends are criminals.  Thieving, freeloading vultures, the lot of them.
 
2013-04-26 12:33:32 PM  
wasn't there a rumor not too long ago that HBO was considering to allow HBO GO to be available to non-HBO subscribers?
 
2013-04-26 12:34:00 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.


You've got leverage because Comcast has competition in your area. Sadly, not every region has that advantage.
 
2013-04-26 12:34:09 PM  
Yes, because you want to get a country that started out as a prison for criminals and is home to the most deadly of animals mad at you.
 
2013-04-26 12:34:16 PM  
People's ability to justify taking things because they aren't available the way that they want them is astounding. No one has to pirate anything, they choose to because they can't get it.

B-b-b-but there's a TV SHOW, and I WANT IT and, I can't get it so I guess I have to steal it! It's HBO's fault!

/bracing for wildfire attack
 
2013-04-26 12:34:20 PM  

impaler: Here's the full comic:

Link


Dammit, I'm about 2 minutes too slow.
 
2013-04-26 12:34:51 PM  

bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !


The show is better than the books. Yeah, I said it.

Weaver95: Since when did this become the unites states of HBO? This isn't something the us government should be overly concerned about.


Well, the copy right office is part of the US government. And it is nice to see feds sticking up for a US company.
 
2013-04-26 12:35:39 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.


I biatched about my rates a while ago, and they kinda hinted they'd give me HBO but I was trying to bring my bill down, so I told them no. Kind of regret it, honestly. I probably gain anything in cash off by turning down HBO.

A friend just lets me borrow his HBOGO password, so I watch it the next day.
 
2013-04-26 12:35:41 PM  

bukijin: But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !


Tell the truth, considering the discombobulated mess that is the latter books, maybe this wouldn't be so bad.  The TV writers could finish the story without fifty pages of food porn and five hundred new and irrelevant characters.
 
2013-04-26 12:35:46 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.


Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.
 
2013-04-26 12:36:43 PM  

ha-ha-guy: bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !

Honestly this season the people doing the writing for the show have started to prove they don't really need Martin to finish it up at this point.  They've made a lot of good decisions in terms of cutting out some of the secondary characters and streamlining the plot.  Odds are they can bring the series to a clean end even if Martin pulls a Robert Jordan.  Martin gets the credit for the world building, but he's only nice to have at this point.

/plus supposedly HBO made him provide an outline for the rest of the series before agreeing to film it, so they have the major plot lines all sketched out


That's so true actually. The TV series plot does run better and smoother than the books. The feeling I get is that he just started writing and let his characters wander where they would without a scheme to actually tie it all together and finish the book. And I estimate he has at least 3 more books to go - so what's that ? another 10-15 yrs ??
 
2013-04-26 12:36:52 PM  

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.
 
2013-04-26 12:37:39 PM  
I also enjoyed this caption:

This is a publicity image released by HBO of Sean Bean portraying Eddard Stark in a scene from the HBO series, "Game of Thrones."

WE DIDN'T PIRATE THIS PICTURE!  PUBLICITY IMAGE!  OFFICIALLY RELEASED!  DON'T HIT ME!
 
2013-04-26 12:39:00 PM  

Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian



No. I agree with everything you said, except that part.  I really want to watch Game of Thrones, but I don't, for the reasons you've listed here. But I (and you) am not entitled to watch the show. I am unwilling to purchase the service at the prices they offer, so I do not. Pirating the show only sends the message that the DRM isn't "good enough".
 
2013-04-26 12:39:02 PM  

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


The RIAA and MPAA aren't going to fark you.
 
2013-04-26 12:39:53 PM  
HBO set game of thrones up so that you are almost forced to pirate the damn thing if you want to see it on time and not buy their entire gotdamn cable channel.
 
2013-04-26 12:41:30 PM  

bukijin: That's so true actually. The TV series plot does run better and smoother than the books. The feeling I get is that he just started writing and let his characters wander where they would without a scheme to actually tie it all together and finish the book. And I estimate he has at least 3 more books to go - so what's that ? another 10-15 yrs ??


At his classic pace, definitely.  I'm kind of figuring at this point, pride will push him to release the books ahead of each season and I'm sure HBO will encourage him to do so.  Of course that might mean that crap gets rushed out the door, the most recent book wasn't that great, so I'm waiting to see if he can get things back together for the next one or not.

A concern for me is I haven't really enjoyed Martin's other works.  He's not terrible, but I've read some of his other works while waiting for GoT books and I wasn't very impressed.  I'm starting to worry that he mostly got lucky with GoT and he can't actually produce that caliber of work on demand, hence the big delays early in the series.
 
2013-04-26 12:42:49 PM  
One of the HBO execs said he didn't really mind the mass pirating of GoT. His main objection was that the visual quality wouldn't be up to snuff.
http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/03/31/hbo-thrones-piracy/
 
2013-04-26 12:43:48 PM  
That dude's more worried about GoT piracy than HBO.  Their biggest piracy concern is that people are putting up low quality versions that don't let people see the amazing production quality of the original material.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/03/31/hbo-thrones-piracy/
 
2013-04-26 12:44:07 PM  

bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !


I'm a big fan of the show so I was going to read the series. I wanted to make sure it was worth it so I checked it out a little. I hate to spoil everyone's fun but as the story moves along it becomes clear the author has created a mess with way to many storylines and characters with no sign of any decent conclusion. His books are getting very wordy, without movIng along the story, which is really bad considering The most recent GoT book had a more stories and characters than the bible. I hope he brings in another writer or even a team to help him salvage the work.
 
2013-04-26 12:45:53 PM  

Mosrael: The writers and HBO themselves basically welcome pirate views. Since they aren't stuck in the pre-Internet darkages (aside from their pricing model, seriously, get it together HBO).

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/07/176338400/pirates-steal-game-of-throne s- why-hbo-doesnt-mind

Viral advertising is the best kind of advertising and the more people who see it, legally or not, the better.


I've also heard claims that HBO is stuck with its godawful distribution model due to contracts with the cable companies and certain HBO executives being old and fearing change.  Basically they're risk averse and like that Comcast just pays them a set amount of money every year.  So some of the folk at HBO are welcoming the piracy because they can go make charts that say "If 70% of the pirates bought our shows at 3 dollars per episode, we'd all have gold plated yachts, so fark these deals with the cable companies!"
 
2013-04-26 12:48:29 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !

The show is better than the books. Yeah, I said it.



You're right, but I thought the books were mediocre.

As for piracy, I would guess a fair number of people who'd never heard of it otherwise stole the show, watched it, then bought a copy of the book because they don't know what a library is or just lack the whole delayed gratification thing and don't want to wait for the library to order it.
 
2013-04-26 12:49:09 PM  

pute kisses like a man: wasn't there a rumor not too long ago that HBO was considering to allow HBO GO to be available to non-HBO subscribers?


Why would I wanna watch Boxing? Or Bill Maher?
 
2013-04-26 12:50:27 PM  

Precision Boobery: I also enjoyed this caption:

This is a publicity image released by HBO of Sean Bean portraying Eddard Stark in a scene from the HBO series, "Game of Thrones."

WE DIDN'T PIRATE THIS PICTURE!  PUBLICITY IMAGE!  OFFICIALLY RELEASED!  DON'T HIT ME!


i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-26 12:50:41 PM  

Precision Boobery: Good.  That should put a stop to this "piracy" thing.  Now we can focus on the real scourge:  inviting your non-HBO-having friends over to your house for a viewing party.  Your friends are criminals.  Thieving, freeloading vultures, the lot of them.


Unless they brought food and drink.

Then and only then can they can enter.
 
2013-04-26 12:51:01 PM  

Precision Boobery: Good.  That should put a stop to this "piracy" thing.  Now we can focus on the real scourge:  inviting your non-HBO-having friends over to your house for a viewing party.  Your friends are criminals.  Thieving, freeloading vultures, the lot of them.


My neighbor once left his blinds open, and I accidentally saw an HBO show he was viewing. I had to turn myself in and pay a hefty fine, because I am not a criminal.
 
2013-04-26 12:52:08 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.

I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.


So if you were a content provider, you'd be okay with people infringing your copyright?
 
2013-04-26 12:52:12 PM  
I didn't know Warner Brothers had its own ambassador.
 
2013-04-26 12:52:30 PM  

mcreadyblue: Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.

And heaven forbid HBO allow people without out cable to subscribe.


Actually, HBO is about to launch HBOGo (the online version of the channel) to people without cable TV.
 
2013-04-26 12:53:13 PM  

kapaso: bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !

I'm a big fan of the show so I was going to read the series. I wanted to make sure it was worth it so I checked it out a little. I hate to spoil everyone's fun but as the story moves along it becomes clear the author has created a mess with way to many storylines and characters with no sign of any decent conclusion. His books are getting very wordy, without movIng along the story, which is really bad considering The most recent GoT book had a more stories and characters than the bible. I hope he brings in another writer or even a team to help him salvage the work.


THIS.  I trudged through the last book in hopes that he was just bringing it out wide before closing the lose ends with a bang.  I don't know how that's possible at this point.
 
2013-04-26 12:54:24 PM  

Weaver95: HBO set game of thrones up so that you are almost forced to pirate the damn thing if you want to see it on time and not buy their entire gotdamn cable channel.


You know what I did?

I just bought the whole damn cable channel. I kept it long enough to watch True Blood and then cancel. I always get Stars for free (Love me some Spartacus) and they discount it a fair amount.

If you dont want to do it that way then you dont want to watch it bad enough. Just wait for the DVDs to come out and stop whining.
 
2013-04-26 12:55:20 PM  

NutWrench: I didn't know Warner Brothers had its own ambassador.


The ambassador from HoBOstan.
 
2013-04-26 12:57:16 PM  

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


Man, it's ain't even only the US.  Other countries do the same thing only even worse, because they assume there's no market for their stuff outside the borders.  Sometimes they purposely region restrict stuff, other times they just use some distribution model that's impossible to get membership in without having accounts in certain banks or something like that, but either way, it's a roadblock, and so people will pirate.  There's also tons of expat-aimed pages about how to get media when living in the "wrong" country for this reason.

Some stuff I manage to to get "legally" with the quotes on, I pay for it, but I have to jump through hoops to find a way to pay and I have to fake my location with a VPN.  If the stuff is available for torrent, torrent is definitely the easier way to go.

Speaking of which... iTunes. Yeah, some of the shows I want, I can get via iTunes. But I can't pay for them with US money or a US credit card, so I have to jump through various hoops to buy iTunes gift cards over the internet (iTunes gift cards are restricted by country).  It's stupid. Basically some middleman on the internet is getting some money from me (they charge overhead, it's how THEY make money) that either iTunes or the show creator could be getting, if only they'd make the stuff available to my locale.  Heck, they could charge me overhead for "foreign" points if they want, but the idea just never occurs.
 
2013-04-26 12:57:42 PM  
The problem's not Australians.  It's U.S. citizens with an Aussie VPN.

Not that I'd know about that of course.
 
2013-04-26 12:58:27 PM  

People_are_Idiots: pute kisses like a man: wasn't there a rumor not too long ago that HBO was considering to allow HBO GO to be available to non-HBO subscribers?

Why would I wanna watch Boxing? Or Bill Maher?


i don't have HBO Go, or HBO, or TV service.  but, when I set up my Roku, HBO GO was advertised to me.  I clicked on it and it said, watch all the latest shows on demand, including game of thrones.  perhaps that was a liar that people on the inside make to people on the outside, but it certainly ruffled my feathers.
 
2013-04-26 12:59:47 PM  

pute kisses like a man: perhaps that was a liar


lie.

hmm, that's not even a spelling or typographical error.  that's a full blown thought error.  confusing actor and act.  yikes.
 
2013-04-26 12:59:51 PM  

Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.


Extremely very much this too.  Digital content sellers (in various countries) would probably sell more if they had a per-show purchase model. Some places do, and it's great.  Print could stand to have a similar model available also - maybe I want to read THIS issue of the New Yorker, but I don't want to subscribe for the whole damn year.
 
2013-04-26 01:00:19 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Igor Jakovsky: there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.

You've got leverage because Comcast has competition in your area. Sadly, not every region has that advantage.


that is a good point because the only competition they would have had before uverse moved in was directtv or dish and both of those suck when it rains and i dont think comcast really cares about those 2 anyway. uverse made a major push in my area and i know more than a few people who switched.

on another note hbogo is pretty freaking awesome if you liked their original series

sopranos
the wire
six feet under
oz
etc etc all complete and on demand.
 
2013-04-26 01:01:41 PM  

Weaver95: Since when did this become the unites states of HBO? This isn't something the us government should be overly concerned about.


This is actually a large part of what the Department of State does.  They advocate for US interests.  It is not always this high profile or accessible to the public, but they often are involved in representing us (citizen and citizen employers) to foreign governments.

Things like: "hey China, if you keep market dumping solar panels in an effort to corner the market, we will have to raise import tariffs to keep US manufacturers alive."
 
2013-04-26 01:02:26 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: If you dont want to do it that way then you dont want to watch it bad enough. Just wait for the DVDs to come out and stop whining.


The 90s called. They want your moronically inefficient distribution models back.
 
2013-04-26 01:05:53 PM  
The thing with piracy is that it's about people's own moral code and where they feel they are in life.

Students pirate and always pirate. They don't have money, so they just grab it. Adults with money don't pirate, because they feel it's not moral to do so when they have a reasonable amount of income.

The problem with GoT is this: Let's say that I'm a fantasy nut. I love fantasy stuff, and people are telling me to watch GoT. Right, so I take a look at what to do to get the current series from Sky, which includes catching up, and it's as follows:-

£26.50/month. Minimum contract of 12 months. So, that's a total of £318, to see 10 hours of entertainment per year. The equivalent of paying £60 to see a movie.
Or
wait nearly a year after to buy it on DVD. After which, every plot element has been spoilt for you by other people.
Or
Buy a usenet account for 3 months for about £20 and grab the farker in DIVX format, within an hour of an episode finishing.

No-one cares if it's illegal. They do care about if the price is sensible for them. If it's not, they'll just grab it anyway.
 
2013-04-26 01:06:15 PM  

Snarfangel: Precision Boobery: Good.  That should put a stop to this "piracy" thing.  Now we can focus on the real scourge:  inviting your non-HBO-having friends over to your house for a viewing party.  Your friends are criminals.  Thieving, freeloading vultures, the lot of them.

My neighbor once left his blinds open, and I accidentally saw an HBO show he was viewing. I had to turn myself in and pay a hefty fine, because I am not a criminal.


I wonder... if everyone did that and just flooded the system... would that make this shiat stop?
 
2013-04-26 01:06:42 PM  

Malacon: Igor Jakovsky: there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.

I biatched about my rates a while ago, and they kinda hinted they'd give me HBO but I was trying to bring my bill down, so I told them no. Kind of regret it, honestly. I probably gain anything in cash off by turning down HBO.

A friend just lets me borrow his HBOGO password, so I watch it the next day.


FYI it's available on there as soon as its done airing. I do the same thing.
 
2013-04-26 01:07:18 PM  

pute kisses like a man: People_are_Idiots: pute kisses like a man: wasn't there a rumor not too long ago that HBO was considering to allow HBO GO to be available to non-HBO subscribers?

Why would I wanna watch Boxing? Or Bill Maher?

i don't have HBO Go, or HBO, or TV service.  but, when I set up my Roku, HBO GO was advertised to me.  I clicked on it and it said, watch all the latest shows on demand, including game of thrones.  perhaps that was a liar that people on the inside make to people on the outside, but it certainly ruffled my feathers.


xbox live advertises it too but when you click on the icon it says that you have to be an hbo cable subscriber to use it.
 
2013-04-26 01:08:12 PM  
After our misadventure in New Zealand, maybe it's time to just accept that the planet gives no farks about our bullshiat content cartel rules.
 
2013-04-26 01:08:35 PM  

bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !


Martin has only had 5,000+ pages to try and form a plot and has failed so far.  What's the rush?
 
2013-04-26 01:08:43 PM  

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


The industry simply refuses to move forward. They have a business model that rakes in plenty of cash and they refuse to change. Screw the consumers, they just want to keep milking their current model forever. It's short-sighted and stupid, but then again these are human beings we're talking about.
 
2013-04-26 01:08:48 PM  

impaler: Here's the full comic:

Link


More than a little ironic that Oatmeal was the one complaining about Funnyjunk stealing his stuff and making money off advertising.
s3.amazonaws.com

/"But it's different when  I do it!"
 
2013-04-26 01:08:58 PM  

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


I'm glad you understand. Except for the blaming sometime else part. I don't. I download it because I enjoy it and don't want to pay for it (although I am considering buying the blu rays). I really don't give a shiat what other people think about it.

/YMMV
 
2013-04-26 01:10:04 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.

I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.


This'd be the old "I disagree with you, therefore you're a troll" argument? It's considered highly persuasive in some circles.
 
2013-04-26 01:10:38 PM  

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


I agree that HBO's archaic business model doesn't make it okay to illegally download, but which sounds like an easier solution to this "problem":
1. Change human nature and basic economics
2. HBO offers the same service that everyone else in the industry uses.
 
2013-04-26 01:11:02 PM  
Apparently HBO never heard of tivo.

Pssst, HBO, Its like a VCR. You remember those, right? They were used to share content before the internet.

Some people will never pay for content no mater what price point.
 
2013-04-26 01:11:47 PM  

Theaetetus: impaler: Here's the full comic:

Link

More than a little ironic that Oatmeal was the one complaining about Funnyjunk stealing his stuff and making money off advertising.
[s3.amazonaws.com image 420x853]

/"But it's different when  I do it!"


The Oatmeal has a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for fans to buy?

No?

Then how is that ironic?
 
2013-04-26 01:14:01 PM  

impaler: The 90s called. They want your moronically inefficient distribution models back.


It's the content provider's call. I'm sure Fark isn't the only people that has told HBO that "hey if you sale your top rated show per episode people may buy it". You think that's an original idea?! No. I guess HBO has figured that there are enough people out there like me (who will just sign up for the service) to off set the people who would only buy it on demand.

I don't think I would buy it per episode anyway. I like watching things on the big screen in the living room and I haven't figured out how to get my tv to run my Itunes content on it. I know I could just get an Apple TV but those are like a hundred bucks. I have a Wifi Samsung Airplay thingy that I use for net flicks and I also have a PS3 but I'll be damn if I can get it to show me all my movies. Ran monitor cable (inside the walls) from my computer to my TV but it's so slow and not in HD! And I have to go to the computer room to pause, fast forward or rewind.

I have tech issues.
 
2013-04-26 01:15:18 PM  

impaler: Theaetetus: impaler: Here's the full comic:

Link

More than a little ironic that Oatmeal was the one complaining about Funnyjunk stealing his stuff and making money off advertising.
[s3.amazonaws.com image 420x853]

/"But it's different when  I do it!"

The Oatmeal has a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for fans to buy?

No?

Then how is that ironic?


Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.
 
2013-04-26 01:15:28 PM  

justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.


And if they would stop dressing so slutty they wouldn't get raped.
 
2013-04-26 01:16:48 PM  

AgentBang: People's ability to justify taking things because they aren't available the way that they want them is astounding. No one has to pirate anything, they choose to because they can't get it.

B-b-b-but there's a TV SHOW, and I WANT IT and, I can't get it so I guess I have to steal it! It's HBO's fault!

/bracing for wildfire attack


No one HAS to be a douche, you just CHOOSE to.

Seriously, no one is debating what you said.  No one has said that ever.  You're being a giant douche, and no one gives a single flying fark about whatever it is you think your point is.  fark off and fark yourself then choke to death on a big old flaming bowl of your own fark-soaked dick.
 
2013-04-26 01:18:18 PM  

Endive Wombat: That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


What none of these networks have grasped is how people now communicate globally. I'm in the UK. I heard about Archer because of Fark. I see people on here discussing Dr Who and I know a lot of them are torrenting it, because no-one even makes it available.

Now, can I get Archer in the UK? No-one broadcasts it. Right, so I can get it on DVD, yes. Well, only if I'll take S1 and S2. Which I now have. But I've watched S3 and S4 on some Chinese flash sites, because I simply have no legal way to watch them in the UK. £12 for the S2 Blu Ray. No problemo. Ask me £12-15 for S3 or S4 and I'll click the "Buy Now" button. But you don't even give me a way to stuff fivers in your pockets.
 
2013-04-26 01:19:32 PM  

Theaetetus: Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.


So because he complained about a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for him to buy GoT, he can't complain about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content? That makes no sense.
 
2013-04-26 01:21:13 PM  

Steak_Cake_Sause: Apparently HBO never heard of tivo.

Pssst, HBO, Its like a VCR. You remember those, right? They were used to share content before the internet.

Some people will never pay for content no mater what price point.


You use Tivo to share content with nonpaying subscribers?  How do you do that?
 
2013-04-26 01:21:19 PM  
It's just dumb for HBO to keep holding out on allowing subscriptions only to cable subscribers. The cable companies won't let you get HBO without a certain higher tier, and by the end of it all, you're paying over $100 a month for access to HBO.

The actual monthly fee for HBO ranges from $15 to $20 depending on your cable provider (Comcast is the highest, Charter is the lowest). The major cost comes from that requirement for other cable service. If HBO could circumvent that requirement, I'm certain they'd make a crapload of money from people paying $10 or $15 per month for an HBO Go subscription.

Or you can get Navi-X for Boxee, XBMC or Plex (which works on the Roku) and find a user list with Game of Thrones (or whatever you want) and directly stream it without too much concern about the DMCA coming to haunt you. If you don't want to wait for the stream, you can probably find an HBO live stream, and it might even work, and watch it as it airs.

Or, if you're more into downloading, you can pay $8 per month for a decent VPN and then go for the torrents. That's certainly cheaper than $100 per month. There's still risk involved (especially if you have a DNS leak) but until you get that first DMCA notice, it's all gravy. After that, you might be smart to pull back and seek other options.

I'd be fine with paying for HBO Go directly. The same goes for AMC and other cable channels. I just don't want to pay a hundred bucks or more per month for three channels I want, and several dozen I absolutely hate. It's not equitable. It's forcing me to buy something I don't need or want in order to get what I do want.

If restaurants did this, you'd have to buy the lobster dinner in order to order a piece of pie.
 
2013-04-26 01:21:34 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Seriously, no one is debating what you said. No one has said that ever.


ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate. Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date. Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

sounds like someone did
 
2013-04-26 01:22:55 PM  

justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.


You can purchase HBO GO in June without a cable subscription, so I'm not sure what you're carrying on about.
 
2013-04-26 01:25:11 PM  

farkeruk: £26.50/month. Minimum contract of 12 months. So, that's a total of £318, to see 10 hours of entertainment per year. The equivalent of paying £60 to see a movie.


Quite.

Though we'd seriously be thinking about buying a Sky Go subscription if it was actually possible to buy a Sky Go subscription (seriously WTF)
 
2013-04-26 01:25:39 PM  

grandjedimasterbill: Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian


No. I agree with everything you said, except that part.  I really want to watch Game of Thrones, but I don't, for the reasons you've listed here. But I (and you) am not entitled to watch the show. I am unwilling to purchase the service at the prices they offer, so I do not. Pirating the show only sends the message that the DRM isn't "good enough".


I see what you're saying and I don't neccesarily think anyone is entitled to watch the show, I just love the show and desperately want to see it RIGHTNOW so I download it. It might be wrong of me to do it, but what can I say, I have poor impulse control. Plus I do buy the seasons on bluray when they are released so it's not like HBO is getting nothing from me.

The networks really need to find a way to reach audiences in a better way because there are so many people who would gladly pay to download the show the day of (or at least the next day). They should look at shows that are heavily pirated as an opportunity to make the shows people clearly love available online legally faster and easier so they can get paid and people can get their shows when they want.

Piracy isn't right, and no, people aren't entitled to a TV show, but networks who refuse to get with the times are certainly not helping. If they offered a reasonable alternative, the piracy would likely drop significantly.

/I just want to watch my show goddamnit!
 
2013-04-26 01:26:24 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

You can purchase HBO GO in June without a cable subscription, so I'm not sure what you're carrying on about.


Great. Too bad that they decided not to do this for the first 3 seasons of GOT
 
2013-04-26 01:27:11 PM  

farkeruk: What none of these networks have grasped is how people now communicate globally. I'm in the UK. I heard about Archer because of Fark. I see people on here discussing Dr Who and I know a lot of them are torrenting it, because no-one even makes it available.

Now, can I get Archer in the UK? No-one broadcasts it. Right, so I can get it on DVD, yes. Well, only if I'll take S1 and S2. Which I now have. But I've watched S3 and S4 on some Chinese flash sites, because I simply have no legal way to watch them in the UK. £12 for the S2 Blu Ray. No problemo. Ask me £12-15 for S3 or S4 and I'll click the "Buy Now" button. But you don't even give me a way to stuff fivers in your pockets.



My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


And yes there are differences between the English and the American books. They spell "color" wrong!
 
2013-04-26 01:28:50 PM  
They'll learn eventually.  They still think creating a sort of pseudo scarcity model will give them the most money, which is absurd when talking about digital content.  When your supply is basically infinite and the costs of giving the product to people is miniscule you can practically give it away and at the end of the day still recreate the Scrooge McDuck swimming in gold scene of Duck Tails.  Once they realize this we'll have extremely cheap and readily available content without having to wait months for a season's conclusion.

I'm pretty sure Netflix releases entire seasons worth of episodes all in one go and if it's the same with Arrested Development I can see it bringing a lot of good attention to the model.
 
2013-04-26 01:29:49 PM  

impaler: Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.

The RIAA and MPAA aren't going to fark you.


Neither is a fat bald author.
 
2013-04-26 01:30:36 PM  

Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian


HA!!! Only $25 a month? Even in Canadian dollars that's a bargain compared to the norm in the States, where we have to subscribe to a digital HD package (upper tier, not just basic cable) before we can add HBO for $15 - $20 per month. And that's not even considering the fact that they charge you a monthly lease on your cable box of about $10, and a fee for HD access that also comes out to around $10.

And then, on top of that, a lot of cable providers try to block HBO Go access, even if you subscribe.

Comcast are bastards. Their pricing is the worst. Their requirements for getting premium channels are the most draconian. Their monthly lease fees are damn near unethical.

Charter is, so far, the best I've dealt with; Better pricing, free equipment, less restrictions and prerequisites.

But no matter who the cable company is, they're screwing Americans hard.
 
2013-04-26 01:30:52 PM  

impaler: The RIAA and MPAA aren't going to fark you.


Cute.

The trick is, I don't particularly care if people pirate things, its the ridiculous narrative that pops up on these threads that i find so farking tedious.  The one where people who obtaining things without paying for them cast themselves as the victims.  "oh if only [media company] offered what i wanted on exatcly the terms i wanted!  But they don't, so i was forced to obtain it without paying"  the only thing more delusional is . . . oh wait, here it is:

ha-ha-guy: I'm just the invisible hand of the market


See, the thing he is failing to recognize is that there are two actions happening.  he is not buying the show.  This is in fact part of the market, and sends a signal that there is something about it he does not like.  Being vocal about the fact that HBO's distribution system is not to your liking, and not buying, is how the market is supposed to work.  But note that at no point does "and thus i shall obtain it without paying" send a market helpful message.  Not buying it does, sure, but that second part actually gums up the works.  It sends a mixed signal at best, or - more likely - no direct signal at all.  Thus, our laughing friend has built a narrative where his lack of buying something is the equivalent to getting something without paying for it, and he gets the smug satisfaction of arguing that it is all the big bad stupid media company's fault. 

On the other hand, this guy:

penguinfark: I'm glad you understand. Except for the blaming sometime else part. I don't. I download it because I enjoy it and don't want to pay for it (although I am considering buying the blu rays). I really don't give a shiat what other people think about it.


This guy i am ok with, because he is at least honest enough to say - 'nah, fark it, i just dont wanna pay for it"

so in short: way to go penquinfark for actual honesty!
 
2013-04-26 01:30:52 PM  
Well then stop charging and arm and a leg for cable packages.
 
2013-04-26 01:31:19 PM  

impaler: Theaetetus: Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.

So because he complained about a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for him to buy GoT, he can't complain about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content? That makes no sense.


You're right, it does make no sense. Good thing I never said that he can't complain. I mean, that'd be crazy. Plus, it's not like I have censorship powers or something.

What I said is that it's ironic that someone who was embroiled in a big dispute over illegal infringement of his copyrighted works for commercial gain has a comic up about going to a site that illegally infringes copyrighted works for commercial gain.

Also, to your point, going to Funnyjunk is pretty easy for users. A lot easier than trying to remember individual URLs for all the individual comics. I guess consumers of comics like the Oatmeal who want an easy distribution model should just go to Funnyjunk?
 
2013-04-26 01:32:16 PM  

ZeroCorpse: The actual monthly fee for HBO ranges from $15 to $20 depending on your cable provider (Comcast is the highest, Charter is the lowest)


Quite to my surprise, in an attempt to switch to U-Verse, Comcast offered me 6 months of HBO free... When that died (2 weeks before GoT premiere), I said "Fark it" because I like Newsroom too. I called them up to ask what it would cost me to add on just the HBO packed. $10/mo. I was surprised.

Once GoT is over, I'll probably go and cancel it ... I really just got it out of laziness. Piracy takes a lot of a person, ya know.
/yarr
 
2013-04-26 01:34:46 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


I could buy S3 on DVD in region 1. But you know, sometimes they prevent region 0, so you have to screw around and set the player to be R1, and my BD player doesn't support it, so then I'm into extracting the disc using handbrake and other stuff and you know what? I'll just live with chinese sites if it's going to be that much of a fuss.
 
2013-04-26 01:34:48 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian

HA!!! Only $25 a month? Even in Canadian dollars that's a bargain compared to the norm in the States, where we have to subscribe to a digital HD package (upper tier, not just basic cable) before we can add HBO for $15 - $20 per month. And that's not even considering the fact that they charge you a monthly lease on your cable box of about $10, and a fee for HD access that also comes out to around $10.

And then, on top of that, a lot of cable providers try to block HBO Go access, even if you subscribe.

Comcast are bastards. Their pricing is the worst. Their requirements for getting premium channels are the most draconian. Their monthly lease fees are damn near unethical.

Charter is, so far, the best I've dealt with; Better pricing, free equipment, less restrictions and prerequisites.

But no matter who the cable company is, they're screwing Americans hard.


I should have clarified, the $25 per month is for the movie package including HBO that I would have to pay ON TOP of the $80-90 I'm already paying for my cable. If it was just $25 for everything I would definitely not be complaining about it :-)
 
2013-04-26 01:34:56 PM  

Theaetetus: impaler: Theaetetus: impaler: Here's the full comic:

Link

More than a little ironic that Oatmeal was the one complaining about Funnyjunk stealing his stuff and making money off advertising.
[s3.amazonaws.com image 420x853]

/"But it's different when  I do it!"

The Oatmeal has a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for fans to buy?

No?

Then how is that ironic?

Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.


The difference is that you can just as easily go to his site but trying to watch GoT without buying it as part of a package deal is effectively impossible, and the point is that plenty of people are happy to pay for it if they could do so without buying a ton of crap they don't want along with it. Since it's so difficult to get it legally even if you're trying, and it's point & click to steal it, most people don't care enough to go more than a half dozen attempts to do it the right way. If you're not capable of typing out the Oatmeal guy's site name in the same context as that then I'm wrong and it's an apt comparison.

You ARE the "Wolves are huggable" guy though so it's not surprising you completely misconstrued what was said there.
 
2013-04-26 01:35:47 PM  
But Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey) is broke  : "Game of Thrones star Lena Headey has filed legal documents stating she is flat broke and has "less than $5 in her bank account".


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/04/game-of-thrones-star-lena-heade y- broke
 
2013-04-26 01:36:05 PM  

Theaetetus: Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.


See if you can spot the difference:

"I really want to give HBO my money so I can watch the current season of Game of Thrones, but they've made that impossible to do without buying a subscription to HBO which I can't do since I don't have cable.  I can, however, download the episodes illegally for free.  HBO is stupid for creating this situation."

"These guys are making money off of my work that they've taken without my permission and are distributing without giving me credit, and that sucks."
 
2013-04-26 01:37:27 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: Neither is a fat bald author.


ugh just the thought of the "great bearded glacier" in shorts makes me vomit a bit in my mouth, let alone in flagrante delicto.
 
2013-04-26 01:40:14 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


Amazon will ship books, CDs, and DVDs outside of the country. They will not ship electronics, video games, toys, or anything like that.

Of course there are usually other resellers for that stuff.  Where there's a market, usually there are sellers. Those sellers are just harder to find out and deal with.

The other option for stores that refuse to ship abroad is you can buy an account that will let you ship stuff to an address in the US that then will ship it to you. Expats do this frequently, of course you will pay $$$ for such services.  Again, it's the sort of thing that the original store could potentially offer and charge you for, but they don't, so enter the middlemen.
 
2013-04-26 01:40:25 PM  
if you don't want to pay, don't watch it. is that so difficult?

sure, big corporation is the evil, so you'll just steal stuff to even out the score? that's bull shiat. pay your fair share if you are so keen on that.

or go read the books in your local library if you're so cheap. nobody promised you instant access to television shows as a God given right.
 
2013-04-26 01:42:01 PM  

impaler: Oblig

Link

[s3.amazonaws.com image 398x1500]


Pretty much this. I would love it I could just get HBO alone. I don't want any other cable channel, just that one, and that's it.
 
2013-04-26 01:42:20 PM  

Theaetetus: impaler: Theaetetus: Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.

So because he complained about a complex distribution model that makes it difficult for him to buy GoT, he can't complain about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content? That makes no sense.

You're right, it does make no sense. Good thing I never said that he can't complain. I mean, that'd be crazy. Plus, it's not like I have censorship powers or something.

What I said is that it's ironic that someone who was embroiled in a big dispute over illegal infringement of his copyrighted works for commercial gain has a comic up about going to a site that illegally infringes copyrighted works for commercial gain.

Also, to your point, going to Funnyjunk is pretty easy for users. A lot easier than trying to remember individual URLs for all the individual comics. I guess consumers of comics like the Oatmeal who want an easy distribution model should just go to Funnyjunk?


It would only be ironic if in his comic about downloading GoT he had paid for doing so.  Then you have the irony of someone complaining about a third-party making money from illegally distributing their work while simultaneously helping a different third-party make money from illegally distributing work.
 
2013-04-26 01:42:22 PM  

legion_of_doo: if you don't want to pay, don't watch it. is that so difficult?

sure, big corporation is the evil, so you'll just steal stuff to even out the score? that's bull shiat. pay your fair share if you are so keen on that.

or go read the books in your local library if you're so cheap. nobody promised you instant access to television shows as a God given right.


A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.
 
2013-04-26 01:43:52 PM  

LasersHurt: A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.


thebreakthrough.org
 
2013-04-26 01:43:57 PM  
I enjoy watching these old dinosaurs flailing about in the tar pits. Too bad for them they didn't evolve wings.
 
2013-04-26 01:45:16 PM  
I'm not going to pay for cable.  Because I don't watch 99% of the shows.

I'm not going to pay for HBO Go, because "streaming" actually just means "buffering with 30 seconds progress every five minutes".  (Yes, I realize that it's not always HBO's fault.  What difference does it make?  It still means I'm paying for a service that I don't receive and cannot do anything about.)

I will happily pay full price for the DVDs or Blu-ray... once they come out next year a week before the next season starts.
 In the meantime, I want something that I can watch.  When I have time to watch it.  Without having to sit around and hope that some streaming server somewhere isn't horribly overloaded.

 Until that day arrives, I'm going to find a torrent and let the damn thing trickle down over the course of a week so I can watch it this weekend.
 
2013-04-26 01:45:48 PM  

legion_of_doo: if you don't want to pay, don't watch it. is that so difficult?

sure, big corporation is the evil, so you'll just steal stuff to even out the score? that's bull shiat. pay your fair share if you are so keen on that.

or go read the books in your local library if you're so cheap. nobody promised you instant access to television shows as a God given right.


While I would agree in principle, in my area they don't even offer the HBO package unless it's in a 210/month bundle deal. I have no idea why. I don't care enough to steal it either though.
 
2013-04-26 01:45:58 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.

[thebreakthrough.org image 237x213]


Sorry, but how? It's not a limited commodity, you can multiply it infinitely for free.

I agree that you SHOULD pay, if you can at all. And I don't mean "have the cash," either, I mean if there IS a mechanism for payment at all.

There is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it.
 
2013-04-26 01:46:19 PM  

Teufelaffe: It would only be ironic if in his comic about downloading GoT he had paid for doing so.  Then you have the irony of someone complaining about a third-party making money from illegally distributing their work while simultaneously helping a different third-party make money from illegally distributing work


He viewed the ads, which is how the different third-party makes money.

/he also illegally distributed GoT, making him similar to the Funnyjunk guys, but that's a whole 'nother conversation
 
2013-04-26 01:48:12 PM  

Mantour: But Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey) is broke  : "Game of Thrones star Lena Headey has filed legal documents stating she is flat broke and has "less than $5 in her bank account".


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/04/game-of-thrones-star-lena-heade y- broke


A similar article was posted the other day. She's been in quite a few movies and TV shows. I gotta wonder how she became so broke.
 
2013-04-26 01:50:06 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: LowbrowDeluxe: Seriously, no one is debating what you said. No one has said that ever.

ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate. Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date. Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

sounds like someone did


Okay, I realize this is the internet and English may or may not be your first language, in which case, allow me to be the latest, though surely not the first to suggest that you fark off back to farkdickistan and then proceed to fark yourself with your own dick, flaming bowl, etc etc etc.Sincerely, etc

I say this, because anyone with a 2nd grade grasp of the language could easily figure out that there are several implied caveats to that statement. 'If I want to watch it at all' 'if I am unwilling to sign up for an entire service for one show'.  On the off chance that you are actually just an idiot, however, I will suggest, with all due respect and caring, that you take the strawman you are valiantly fighting, fark off with it, fark yourself with it, and then, choke to death on a flaming bowl of your own fark-soaked strawman farking dick.
 
2013-04-26 01:51:11 PM  
I actually tried all the stuff from The Oatmeal's comic (before I saw it, of course) before just downloading GoT (and 1-2 other shows I actually enjoy).  I don't enjoy enough TV to bother paying exorbitant prices for a cable package that will include the few things I actually want.

Stick it on Netflix, let me stream or download it from your site (for a price-per-episode), SOMETHING that doesn't mean I have to wait until the DVDs are available weeks after the show is done airing for the season. In case any network execs are listening: I'd pay more for a legal digital download than I would for streaming services but I WOULD pay.

HBO has a very realistic attitude (if they really don't worry about the pirating).  I'll look into the HBO GO offering if it actually is available in June (as someone posted above).  I'm not holding my breath though, I can't even get the damn webpage to load properly and it can't resolve where I'm located (which might make it tricky).

/actually have paid for iTunes shows and Google Play Store movies
//have Netflix
///cable/satellite providers around here can EABOD; charlatans and thieves the lot of them
 
2013-04-26 01:52:46 PM  
I pay the iron price

/ have VPN, will travel

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-26 01:56:09 PM  

Elzar: I pay the iron price


Rape & pillage the HBO studios to get the series?.
 
2013-04-26 01:57:20 PM  

LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.

[thebreakthrough.org image 237x213]

Sorry, but how? It's not a limited commodity, you can multiply it infinitely for free.


However, the distinction between club goods and private goods is irrelevant to you argument though.  The argument was that someone who does not want to pay for a thing should, in fact, go without. You responded that they may be unable to pay.  Why this is a justification for why they should not go without is confusing to me.  It seems to miss the point that whatever the reason (personal distaste at the distribution system, lack of funds, hatred of HBO) if you do not want to pay for the offered good, the proper option is to forgo, not to obtain without paying. 

I agree that you SHOULD pay, if you can at all. And I don't mean "have the cash," either, I mean if there IS a mechanism for payment at all.
 
There is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it.


You do realize that this argument applies just as well to private goods as it does to club goods, correct?  I generally hate to analogize between them, but this argument would apply just as well to say a sports car.  The fact that it is rivalrous has little to do with the fact that "there is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it"
 
2013-04-26 01:59:14 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

You can purchase HBO GO in June without a cable subscription, so I'm not sure what you're carrying on about.


That's really good news, as long as they keep the price reasonable.
 
2013-04-26 01:59:43 PM  

Precision Boobery: Good.  That should put a stop to this "piracy" thing.  Now we can focus on the real scourge:  inviting your non-HBO-having friends over to your house for a viewing party.  Your friends are criminals.  Thieving, freeloading vultures, the lot of them.


But... they bring snacks and beer... so that's cool, right?
 
2013-04-26 02:00:04 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: I say this, because anyone with a 2nd grade grasp of the language could easily figure out that there are several implied caveats to that statement.


Those caveats do not rationally exist, because it's such a common argument that is made.  The people making it do not understand that you want those caveats to exist, or they would not use that particular phrase in such a cavalier fashion.  The fact that you want them to exist does not mean that they do.  It is the comprehension of those using the statements that must be addressed, not necessarily yours.
 
2013-04-26 02:00:22 PM  
"Game of Thrones" was the most pirated TV series in 2012

our heroic pirate crusaders at fark always say they only pirate things that they think are bad to try them out then buy it if they like it, so Game of Thrones must be really really bad if it's getting pirated that much.

surveys had found that unsurprisingly, most of the illegal downloaders said they did it because it was free.

our heroic pirate crusaders at fark say this isn't true. they always say they wouldn't pirate if they content was easier to pay for so it must be really really hard to see Game of Thrones legally.

"If the 4 million people who watched 'Game of Thrones' legally had been illegal downloaders - the show would be off the air and there would never have been a season 3,"

our heroic pirate crusaders at fark say that pirating costs companies exactly $0 in losses so there's no way this statement could be true
 
2013-04-26 02:01:35 PM  

Teiritzamna: but this argument would apply just as well to say a sports car.


No it wouldn't. That's absurd. If someone takes the car, they have removed it - it's gone, and nobody else can have it.

Besides, cars you CAN buy. Chances are, barring a few exceptions, anywhere in the world you can get whatever car you want.

I mean I won't even get further into this - there is a huge difference between the items,  and your statements like this show me that you aren't comprehending what I write:

"It seems to miss the point that whatever the reason (personal distaste at the distribution system, lack of funds, hatred of HBO) if you do not want to pay for the offered good, the proper option is to forgo, not to obtain without paying. "

Who said don't WANT? I said "CAN'T." That is not the same! Clearly you are not understanding what I am saying, or you don't know the difference between "don't want" and "can't."
 
2013-04-26 02:03:00 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: A lot of people cannot pay, because they are not given the chance. Often times these individuals turn to Piracy.

[thebreakthrough.org image 237x213]

Sorry, but how? It's not a limited commodity, you can multiply it infinitely for free.

However, the distinction between club goods and private goods is irrelevant to you argument though.  The argument was that someone who does not want to pay for a thing should, in fact, go without. You responded that they may be unable to pay.  Why this is a justification for why they should not go without is confusing to me.  It seems to miss the point that whatever the reason (personal distaste at the distribution system, lack of funds, hatred of HBO) if you do not want to pay for the offered good, the proper option is to forgo, not to obtain without paying. 

I agree that you SHOULD pay, if you can at all. And I don't mean "have the cash," either, I mean if there IS a mechanism for payment at all.
 
There is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it.


You do realize that this argument applies just as well to private goods as it does to club goods, correct?  I generally hate to analogize between them, but this argument would apply just as well to say a sports car.  The fact that it is rivalrous has little to do with the fact that "there is nothing so important about it that it has to be withheld from people who are not allowed to purchase it"


So if the only way for you to buy that sports car where you are is to also buy four school buses, a Raiders-Themed RV, six Moroccan child slaves and a 64 ounce big gulp you wouldn't think of that as a somewhat flawed sales model? I don't contend that is grounds for theft of a sports car but I could understand why someone would steal the car and leave a bag of cash equal to 15% over the SMRP of the car in its place.
 
2013-04-26 02:03:41 PM  

Mosrael: They'll learn eventually.  They still think creating a sort of pseudo scarcity model will give them the most money, which is absurd when talking about digital content.  When your supply is basically infinite and the costs of giving the product to people is miniscule you can practically give it away and at the end of the day still recreate the Scrooge McDuck swimming in gold scene of Duck Tails.  Once they realize this we'll have extremely cheap and readily available content without having to wait months for a season's conclusion.


Agreed. The same thing happened with music content. Prior to the advent of iTunes & Amazon, people were either forced to buy entire albums/CDs to listen to one favorite song...or they could record it from a friend's album/CD (or even off the radio). Once Apple & Amazon made individual songs conveniently available for legal purchase & download, people were more than happy to oblige. Sure, companies weren't getting ± $20 for a CD...but if it's a choice between getting $1 or $2 for a song vesus getting nothing from someone who obtained it elsewhere? Last time I checked, $1 was still greater than $0.

Now if book publishers could just realize an e-book costs less to produce/distribute than a physical book...
 
2013-04-26 02:04:06 PM  

bukijin: ha-ha-guy: bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !

Honestly this season the people doing the writing for the show have started to prove they don't really need Martin to finish it up at this point.  They've made a lot of good decisions in terms of cutting out some of the secondary characters and streamlining the plot.  Odds are they can bring the series to a clean end even if Martin pulls a Robert Jordan.  Martin gets the credit for the world building, but he's only nice to have at this point.

/plus supposedly HBO made him provide an outline for the rest of the series before agreeing to film it, so they have the major plot lines all sketched out

That's so true actually. The TV series plot does run better and smoother than the books. The feeling I get is that he just started writing and let his characters wander where they would without a scheme to actually tie it all together and finish the book. And I estimate he has at least 3 more books to go - so what's that ? another 10-15 yrs ??


At least that long. Took six years to write the last mess. It's been two years since that was completed and you can bet that very little has been completed on book six. Far to many conventions to go to and other way overdue projects. Can't blame him if I was that rich I'd do what I wanted too eff working.
 
2013-04-26 02:04:16 PM  

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


The question is, if HBO made available an episode for download at full resolution for say $2 per episode, would most of the 'pirates' decide to pay for the product or would they still just want it for free?
 
2013-04-26 02:06:35 PM  
"If the 4 million people who watched 'Game of Thrones' legally had been illegal downloaders - the show would be off the air and there would never have been a season 3," Bleich said. ($1 = 0.9697 Australian dollars)


That's not true. I am subscribed to HBO solely so I can watch GOT... and I also "pirate" the episodes, so I can watch them how I like, on the machine of my choice in my own home when I wish to. TV's aren't the only device people watch shows on anymore. But I like the show enough, and the production values are so good I don't want to just not pay them for it. Within my means I support the best media I consume, whether I pirate it or not.

So I am a pirate AND I'm paying for the show.

And I know other people who do the same thing. So while I'm sure many of those "illegal downloaders" are surely not paying, I'm sure many others are. Piracy is not as simple as "X number of people are downloading it, so that means Y amount of sales were lost." I never would have bothered subscribing to HBO for GOT if I hadn't pirated the first two episodes (I was late to the GOT thing) because a buddy of mine kept insisting I give it a try. I did, and I liked it so much I signed up for HBO to watch the rest of the season. And each season I sign back up for HBO when GOT comes back and cancel it after the season finale.
 
2013-04-26 02:15:25 PM  

Lollipop165: Mantour: But Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey) is broke  : "Game of Thrones star Lena Headey has filed legal documents stating she is flat broke and has "less than $5 in her bank account".


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/04/game-of-thrones-star-lena-heade y- broke

A similar article was posted the other day. She's been in quite a few movies and TV shows. I gotta wonder how she became so broke.


Divorce Attorneys!
 
2013-04-26 02:16:33 PM  
As someone whom has HBO and has never watched a single episode I allow my paid for view to someone else.  So EABOD ambassador/HBO.
 
2013-04-26 02:18:54 PM  
Theaetetus:


Is The Oatmeal selling the pirated GoT episodes?  Or making money off of them?

No?

Then it has farking nothing at farking all to do with the funnyjunk thing and is not even close to being a similar situation or ironic in any way whatsoever.
 
2013-04-26 02:19:05 PM  

justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.


Pretty much this.
Update your damn distribution model, morons.

FTA: "Neil Gane, managing director of the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft"
Neil, I have a problem with your misnomer of an organization. Just because someone has a copy of something, doesn't mean they stole your precious copyright. Hell, people that legally DVR or watch the damn show don't own your copyright either. There is no reasoning with these money grubbing farkers.
 
2013-04-26 02:19:07 PM  

Theaetetus: Because he's complaining about someone making money off of advertising while illegally redistributing his content. Seems pretty apt.


I don't see anything ironic there.

In the funnyjunk matter, it is another site copying work without permission for the purpose of making a profit from it by advertising, while omitting all credit from the original creator.  Passing off somebody elses work as their own, and trying to make money from it.

In the Game of Thrones example, he was pointing out how as a consumer, HBO makes it difficult to lawfully pay for the material in a fashion people want, so when the legal option is difficult, they'll turn to piracy just to get it quicker and easier.

It's like how illegal music downloads became much less of an issue once iTunes and Amazon MP3 services (among others) made cheap, easy music downloads available.  If Matt Inman was streaming Game of Thrones from his website while making money from it, it would be the same as the funnyjunk matter, otherwise it's apples and oranges.
 
2013-04-26 02:20:19 PM  
Let me buy the cable shows and movies I want through the internet at a reasonable price and I'll never need to download anything again from TPB.
 
2013-04-26 02:22:49 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Theaetetus:

Is The Oatmeal selling the pirated GoT episodes?  Or making money off of them?

No?


Is he distributing them?
Yes?

Then it has farking nothing at farking all to do with the funnyjunk thing and is not even close to being a similar situation or ironic in any way whatsoever.

Both copyright infringement. Both with the infringer making money off of advertising. You're right, nothing at all similar there. [eyeroll]
 
2013-04-26 02:24:02 PM  

Silverstaff: In the funnyjunk matter, it is another site copying work without permission for the purpose of making a profit from it by advertising, while omitting all credit from the original creator.  Passing off somebody elses work as their own, and trying to make money from it.


Yep. In the GoT matter, it's another site copying work without permission for the purpose of making a profit from it by advertising. They didn't omit credit and there's no passing off, but they certainly tried to make money from it.
 
2013-04-26 02:25:51 PM  
I'm in the film industry and even I think that the bean counters need to come up with a reasonable business model.  I'd happily pay to rent movies, but with Blockbuster gone there's no real option for a physical rental (they chased all the independents out years ago).  My crap cable provider will "rent" new releases on demand but the price to see it in HD (1080i, for fark's sake) is more expensive than I used to rent a way less compression artifact ridden, 1080p BluRay for.  So fark that.  I'm a pirate... and I'd happily pay money to rent movies as long as I'm not being bent over to do it.
 
2013-04-26 02:26:48 PM  

StaleCoffee: So if the only way for you to buy that sports car where you are is to also buy four school buses, a Raiders-Themed RV, six Moroccan child slaves and a 64 ounce big gulp you wouldn't think of that as a somewhat flawed sales model? I don't contend that is grounds for theft of a sports car but I could understand why someone would steal the car and leave a bag of cash equal to 15% over the SMRP of the car in its place.


The answer would of course be to say: Hey car dealer (and HBO) you are a total moron and I would not buy all that crap.  Taking the car, however?  That is saying, hey your system of distribution is balls ass stupid (which trust me i think it is) but i have a right to that sweet sweet vehicle.
 
2013-04-26 02:28:30 PM  

Teiritzamna: The answer would of course be to say: Hey car dealer (and HBO) you are a total moron and I would not buy all that crap. Taking the car, however? That is saying, hey your system of distribution is balls ass stupid (which trust me i think it is) but i have a right to that sweet sweet vehicle.


What if you just make a copy of the car and use that to drive around?
 
2013-04-26 02:29:08 PM  

MugzyBrown: The question is, if HBO made available an episode for download at full resolution for say $2 per episode, would most of the 'pirates' decide to pay for the product or would they still just want it for free?


Personally I'd buy it, if it's something I want to watch.  It helps ensure similar content is made in the future, it gives money to the creators, it means I'll get a proper copy of the video (plus the video will be what the title claims it is!) AND it means I don't have to visit sketchy websites that are probably trying to infect me with viruses.

In short, for $2? Hell yeah. It's a LOT less hassle.

This is why people happily buy music now that they've figured out that the proper model is akin to the cassette single rather than the $20 CD.

There will probably always be some segment of the population happy to steal (students with no money, etc) but most people with a normal income who don't want to spend all kinds of time searching and don't feel like taking risks will just pay their $2.

I pay for content like this NOW, even if I'm still breaking the law by lying about my location to do it.
 
2013-04-26 02:32:34 PM  

Teiritzamna: StaleCoffee: So if the only way for you to buy that sports car where you are is to also buy four school buses, a Raiders-Themed RV, six Moroccan child slaves and a 64 ounce big gulp you wouldn't think of that as a somewhat flawed sales model? I don't contend that is grounds for theft of a sports car but I could understand why someone would steal the car and leave a bag of cash equal to 15% over the SMRP of the car in its place.

The answer would of course be to say: Hey car dealer (and HBO) you are a total moron and I would not buy all that crap.  Taking the car, however?  That is saying, hey your system of distribution is balls ass stupid (which trust me i think it is) but i have a right to that sweet sweet vehicle.


The world has told the entertainment industry for years that their current model of packaging a few nice songs in with a ton of crap is a bad idea...The industry basically told us all to go suck a big one and either pay for the crap package or do without.

Until internet downloading came along and NOW they're all whining and crying and talking about theft.

So, screw them until they decide to give us a sales model that we've wanted for years.

Also, mister Ambassador, here is the President of Programming for HBO, talking about the show you're so valiantly defending from downloaders:

. . . "I probably shouldn't be saying this, but it is a compliment of sorts," Lombardo said. "The demand is there. And it certainly didn't negatively impact the DVD sales. [Piracy is] something that comes along with having a wildly successful show on a subscription network."

That's Michael Lombardo, and he doesn't seem to have a problem with downloaders.
 
2013-04-26 02:32:58 PM  

Theaetetus: impaler: Here's the full comic:

Link

More than a little ironic that Oatmeal was the one complaining about Funnyjunk stealing his stuff and making money off advertising.
[s3.amazonaws.com image 420x853]

/"But it's different when  I do it!"


The point:
.


Your head:
( )

Notice the distance above your head the point passed? One could say it was completely missed.

He tried his damnedest to watch the show legally, but was stonewalled at every turn. FunnyJunk just stole his shiat and started making money off of his work without credit.
There is a HUGE difference between downloading a video to watch in your own room and copy/pasting another person's work to a website so you can make money off of it.
 
2013-04-26 02:33:17 PM  

Theaetetus: Both copyright infringement. Both with the infringer making money off of advertising. You're right, nothing at all similar there. [eyeroll]


Doesn't matter one bit if it's copyright infringement or not.  There is a huge different, morally and ethically speaking, between the two acts, even if they were both legally "copyright infringement".

Start thinking like a human being instead of a lawyer and you'll see that.

A person sitting down, deciding they want to watch Game of Thrones, getting frustrated that they can't download them legally, so they pirate them IS NOT morally or ethically equivalent to a website plagiarizing the works of another for profit, while omitting credit to the original author.

Just isn't.  Even if it's both a violation of the same law.  Guess what, illegal does NOT equal immoral or unjust.  I'm not trying to argue law here, I'm talking about morals and ethics, not legal and illegal.
 
2013-04-26 02:35:55 PM  

LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: but this argument would apply just as well to say a sports car.

No it wouldn't. That's absurd. If someone takes the car, they have removed it - it's gone, and nobody else can have it.


Sigh.  Did you see the part where i said the rivalrous nature of private goods is irrelevant to the discussion at hand?  and yet, alas, you brought up the unrelated point about the rivalrous distinction.

Besides, cars you CAN buy. Chances are, barring a few exceptions, anywhere in the world you can get whatever car you want.

And you can buy Game of Thrones.  It is stupidly expensive.  Prohibitively expensive.  Sphincter tighteningly expensive.  All true.  It is therefore (excluding its non-rivalrous nature) of much like a sports car - an expensive product that is not necessary.  Trust me when i say that most people cannot buy an expensive car.  Many more, refuse to because it is too impractical and costly.  such is the scenario here.

I mean I won't even get further into this - there is a huge difference between the items,  and your statements like this show me that you aren't comprehending what I write:

"It seems to miss the point that whatever the reason (personal distaste at the distribution system, lack of funds, hatred of HBO) if you do not want to pay for the offered good, the proper option is to forgo, not to obtain without paying. "

Who said don't WANT? I said "CAN'T." That is not the same! Clearly you are not understanding what I am saying, or you don't know the difference between "don't want" and "can't."


Of course you can buy it. I know lots of people who buy it.  Its sort of the whole point.  What you are saying is that you cannot buy it in the fashion that you want. You want it to be able to be bought ala carte, i assume, preferably for viewing over the internet so it has a level of portability, and for a cost that you think is commesurate with how much you personally value it.  Unfortunately it is not offered in that fashion. Do you see the difference between "can't" and "don't want to"?  You likely can't buy the crown Jjewels of England as they are owned by the state and not for sale.  You likley do not want to spend - for the sake of example - $100 a cup for civet poop coffee - it is stupidly pricy for an experience you do not think is worth it.  To say, in the face of the poo-cup, well i would totally drink it for 50 cents, so its really the coffee company;s fault for making it so expensive.  I shall just take some and they will learn a lesson.
 
2013-04-26 02:36:28 PM  

ha-ha-guy: bukijin: If there was a way of watching it without subscribing to fox cable or using an apple product then I would be very happy to pay for it.

But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !

Honestly this season the people doing the writing for the show have started to prove they don't really need Martin to finish it up at this point.  They've made a lot of good decisions in terms of cutting out some of the secondary characters and streamlining the plot.  Odds are they can bring the series to a clean end even if Martin pulls a Robert Jordan.  Martin gets the credit for the world building, but he's only nice to have at this point.

/plus supposedly HBO made him provide an outline for the rest of the series before agreeing to film it, so they have the major plot lines all sketched out


And I'm totally cool with that. Martin isn't actually a very good writer. He created a rich world (stolen from real life, of course), and has interesting plots (stolen from real life, of course, but with dragons and magic), but as for actually making it interesting? Not so much. Good creator, boring writer.
 
2013-04-26 02:36:39 PM  

Infernalist: Also, mister Ambassador, here is the President of Programming for HBO, talking about the show you're so valiantly defending from downloaders:

. . . "I probably shouldn't be saying this, but it is a compliment of sorts," Lombardo said. "The demand is there. And it certainly didn't negatively impact the DVD sales. [Piracy is] something that comes along with having a wildly successful show on a subscription network."

That's Michael Lombardo, and he doesn't seem to have a problem with downloaders.


That's definitely an attitude you'd expect from someone who's near the top of an organization that's generally considered to be one of the top content creators in all of television.  The US specialty cable providers like HBO, Showtime, Starz and whoever else are really the only reason to watch narrative drama or comedy on tv except for the occasional accidental network show of quality.

My wife and I subscribe to our providers movie package which gets us The Movie Network and HBO.  It's $20 a month, but the value is definitely there.
 
2013-04-26 02:37:09 PM  

Teiritzamna: You likely can't buy the crown Jjewels of England as they are owned by the state and not for sale.  You likley do not want to spend - for the sake of example - $100 a cup for civet poop coffee - it is stupidly pricy for an experience you do not think is worth it.  To say, in the face of the poo-cup, well i would totally drink it for 50 cents, so its really the coffee company;s fault for making it so expensive.  I shall just take some and they will learn a lesson.


I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.
 
2013-04-26 02:37:10 PM  

Mercutio74: I'd happily pay to rent movies, but with Blockbuster gone there's no real option for a physical rental (they chased all the independents out years ago).


My town still has a local movie rental, and it's awesome. It has a lot of stuff that Blockbuster never got, including foreign stuff.

They will also rent you players, so you can watch the non-US-region stuff (if you can't watch that stuff on your own hardware). Also PAL, etc.

But it's an interesting point - streaming doesn't work so well for people in areas with crappy internet. Pirating does, though, because even if it takes two weeks for the file to download, you can watch it all at once. If places let you download the whole video at once to watch later.  Of course the pay places mostly don't let you download (only stream) because then you can share it, etc.

Ideally good quality internet expands.

/got fiber to the house now, municipal internet rocks
//bye bye cable company
 
2013-04-26 02:37:34 PM  

Ennuipoet: bukijin: But frankly GOT has bigger problems than illegal downloads...like how about finishing the books !! The TV series is just distracting the man from his writing. Back to work !

Tell the truth, considering the discombobulated mess that is the latter books, maybe this wouldn't be so bad.  The TV writers could finish the story without fifty pages of food porn and five hundred new and irrelevant characters.


Irrelevant to what? You got some crystal ball telling you where the story's going and how Archie and zombie Ser Hyle ain't a part of it?
 
2013-04-26 02:38:27 PM  

Theaetetus: Teufelaffe: It would only be ironic if in his comic about downloading GoT he had paid for doing so.  Then you have the irony of someone complaining about a third-party making money from illegally distributing their work while simultaneously helping a different third-party make money from illegally distributing work

He viewed the ads, which is how the different third-party makes money.

/he also illegally distributed GoT, making him similar to the Funnyjunk guys, but that's a whole 'nother conversation


A couple things... Did you miss where he specifically addressed that other 3rd parties were now making advertising dollars from people who visit torrent sites to improperly download it? Because he actually did mention that in his comic's critique of HBO's distribution of GOT.

Also, this is a cartoon he wrote to make a point and not necessarily a 100% accurate documentary record of him actually doing it.

And I'm not sure where you've been going with this in this whole thread. You seem almost conciously intent on missing the point of what Inman was actually saying in that comic. To whit, he wasn't saying people should pirate GOT, he was explaining how the old guard media companies have made things difficult for many customers like him to pay for the show legally in a timely fashion even if they want to quite a lot, and that is not only incentivising piracy for those people but actually going further and making it the best way for them to consume that media - with or without cash in hand. A totally valid critique.

I'm not sure why you're trying to conflate that perfectly reasonable critique with FunnyJunk's stealing of his content and passing it off as their own and refusing to take it down when he asked - and then siccing one of the world's oddest and least effective litigators on him. It's like comparing apples to ennui.
 
2013-04-26 02:38:39 PM  
gorgon38...At least that long. Took six years to write the last mess. It's been two years since that was completed and you can bet that very little has been completed on book six. Far to many conventions to go to and other way overdue projects. Can't blame him if I was that rich I'd do what I wanted too eff working.

"Last mess" is 100% accurate.  I felt bad for reading the books.   Martin can sculpt characters very well and I think that is what made me keep reading.

Unfortunately, those good characters wander around, lots of 'stuff' happens but without any discernable 'point' to any of it.   Here is a summary of all Sansa's chapters for Books 2 and 3:
"Sansa wandered through the castle.  She was sad.  Joffery was abusive again.   She wanted her life to be a fairytale, but it wasn't.  The End."

There, I just saved most of you from reading a few hundred pages of aimless prose.

Dani T went from being a very interesting character (Martin's pervertness aside -- dude is obsessed with thirteen year olds do it) in the first few books to being one of the most boring in the last two.

Then there is an entire subplot about one of the southern kingdoms in the last book (don't recall the name) that goes on for a long while, ends, and then you realize there was no need for the plot to begin with.

Grr,,, stop now.  Rage building....
 
2013-04-26 02:39:18 PM  

Infernalist: Also, mister Ambassador, here is the President of Programming for HBO, talking about the show you're so valiantly defending from downloaders:


Oh for the love of pete - read above.  I really am not attempting to lodge a valiant defense of Game of Thrones.  I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.  It forced them to make the choice not to pay for it.  Obtaining it without paying for it, however, is because the parties in question still wanted it - or as is often implied here, felt they had a right to it.
 
2013-04-26 02:39:33 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-26 02:40:44 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: LowbrowDeluxe: Seriously, no one is debating what you said. No one has said that ever.

ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate. Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date. Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

sounds like someone did


Thanks Stealth...sometimes trolls go fishing and sometimes people feel like they need to be hooked.

LowBrow's idiotic wharrbargghhll, oven mitt wearing typing aside, yes, there are people who feel as if they are compelled to download stuff that isn't available for whatever reason.

Don't get me wrong, I understand being pissed off if there was a show or mp3 I really wanted to watch / see but couldn't, I'd be pissed. I'm just saying that I wouldn't try to justify my pirating by shifting the blame to someone else. Nut up and just admit you're taking it for free.
 
2013-04-26 02:40:47 PM  

LasersHurt: I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.


Perhaps i am just not getting your argument.  Explain why they are not comparable, without invoking the irrelevant distinction between rivalrous private goods and non-rivalrous club goods.
 
2013-04-26 02:40:53 PM  

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


It's more complicated than that. If HBO sells episodes the day after they air on iTunes and Amazon, they're likely to lose subscribers and canibalize home video sales. The lost revenue from those sources could easily be greater than the piracy.

And even selling HBO GO as a subscription service a la Netflix posses the same problem. If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?
 
2013-04-26 02:41:25 PM  
In retaliation, I am going to download every Aussie movie I can without paying!

So...does anyone have a list?
 
2013-04-26 02:42:35 PM  

Mercutio74: I'm in the film industry and even I think that the bean counters need to come up with a reasonable business model.  I'd happily pay to rent movies, but with Blockbuster gone there's no real option for a physical rental (they chased all the independents out years ago).


Netflix. They don't just stream.
 
2013-04-26 02:42:37 PM  

AgentBang: Don't get me wrong, I understand being pissed off if there was a show or mp3 I really wanted to watch / see but couldn't, I'd be pissed. I'm just saying that I wouldn't try to justify my pirating by shifting the blame to someone else. Nut up and just admit you're taking it for free.


Once again, +1 for intellectual consistency.

images.intomobile.com
 
2013-04-26 02:42:50 PM  

Teiritzamna: Infernalist: Also, mister Ambassador, here is the President of Programming for HBO, talking about the show you're so valiantly defending from downloaders:

Oh for the love of pete - read above.  I really am not attempting to lodge a valiant defense of Game of Thrones.  I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.  It forced them to make the choice not to pay for it.  Obtaining it without paying for it, however, is because the parties in question still wanted it - or as is often implied here, felt they had a right to it.


Are you the Ambassador to Australia, good sir?
 
2013-04-26 02:43:04 PM  

Teiritzamna: I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.


People are criticizing HBO (and similar companies) for turning down easy money.

The important difference with the sports car is that sports cars are hard to steal.  Movies are pretty trivially easy to pirate. Like it or not, that definitely affects the market price of an item.  The music industry figured this out already.
 
2013-04-26 02:43:28 PM  
...because we just haven't reinforced that "corporate interests control our country" stereotype enough.
 
2013-04-26 02:43:33 PM  

Teiritzamna: StaleCoffee: So if the only way for you to buy that sports car where you are is to also buy four school buses, a Raiders-Themed RV, six Moroccan child slaves and a 64 ounce big gulp you wouldn't think of that as a somewhat flawed sales model? I don't contend that is grounds for theft of a sports car but I could understand why someone would steal the car and leave a bag of cash equal to 15% over the SMRP of the car in its place.

The answer would of course be to say: Hey car dealer (and HBO) you are a total moron and I would not buy all that crap.  Taking the car, however?  That is saying, hey your system of distribution is balls ass stupid (which trust me i think it is) but i have a right to that sweet sweet vehicle.


It's less about people feeling entitled to it and more about the options of driving away in a car where the dealership left the keys in the ignition, engine running, lot unlocked and unsupervised in the dead of night 50 miles from the nearest police station, no security cameras and a big sign on the road flashing "SPEND FIVE MILLION DOLLARS ON THIS STUPID PACKAGE DEAL THAT INCLUDES THIS CAR WE LEFT RUNNING IN THE LOT AFTER WE LEFT FOR THE DAY"

In the confusion of "WTF are they thinking" what ends up glaring to those faced with that choice is: spend five million dollars for sixteen things you don't want because there is no other option to buy that car, or drive off in the car consequence free.

Yeah it's still dishonest but most people are going to feel pretty farked by the dealerships attitude and flip them off right in return. It benefits nobody except the guy who drives off in the car. As well as the artist who built the car because it expands the vehicles popularity and increases its sales in more accessible venues, while stupid package lot cars sit there collecting dust.
 
2013-04-26 02:44:17 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.

Perhaps i am just not getting your argument.  Explain why they are not comparable, without invoking the irrelevant distinction between rivalrous private goods and non-rivalrous club goods.


So assume your point is correct, then argue how it's wrong? No thanks.
 
2013-04-26 02:44:40 PM  

falcon176: "If the 4 million people who watched 'Game of Thrones' legally had been illegal downloaders - the show would be off the air and there would never have been a season 3,"

our heroic pirate crusaders at fark say that pirating costs companies exactly $0 in losses so there's no way this statement could be true


No one, even on Fark, has ever seriously said that illegal downloading has cost content providers nothing.  What has been said is that when a content provider says that every illegal equals a lost sale, they're lying to you (or to themselves if they actually believe it).  In fact, a recent study has shown that people who illegally download music are 10 times more likely to pay for music.  Odds are, that also extends to people who illegally download movies & TV shows (probably to a lesser degree for those who download games, since most games are so much more expensive than most movies to purchase legally and thus more likely to be downloaded by people who can't pay for it).  Content providers' best customers are the very people that they're claiming are putting them out of business.

Now, as for the statement you quoted, it's farking stupid.  It's the equivalent of "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle."
 
2013-04-26 02:44:46 PM  

thornhill: Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.

It's more complicated than that. If HBO sells episodes the day after they air on iTunes and Amazon, they're likely to lose subscribers and canibalize home video sales. The lost revenue from those sources could easily be greater than the piracy.

And even selling HBO GO as a subscription service a la Netflix posses the same problem. If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?


When I travel I don't always have access to HBO GO or even the internet. I was in Canada this week and could not log into HBO Go because I wasn't in the US. Having a physical copy of the media would have let me watch episodes from this season on my laptop. As it was, I had to rely on ripped episodes from my DVD from season 2 to watch any GOT content which I already pay for.
 
2013-04-26 02:45:49 PM  
Okay, I did a Google search, and the very first movie that came up in a list of the 25 best Australian movies was The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert (1994)

www.stuff.tv

So you win *this* round, Australia.
 
2013-04-26 02:45:55 PM  

thornhill: Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.

It's more complicated than that. If HBO sells episodes the day after they air on iTunes and Amazon, they're likely to lose subscribers and canibalize home video sales. The lost revenue from those sources could easily be greater than the piracy.

And even selling HBO GO as a subscription service a la Netflix posses the same problem. If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?


psst.  Read my post.  The President of Programming for HBO has stated, point blank, that PIRACY has had a negligible impact on DVD sales.  And if people getting it for FREE isn't impacting DVD sales, how would SELLING the episodes legitimately impact DVD sales?

If outright STEALING the content isn't having a noticeable impact on DVD sales, how could HBO-GO have an impact on DVD sales?
 
2013-04-26 02:46:06 PM  

itazurakko: Teiritzamna: I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.

People are criticizing HBO (and similar companies) for turning down easy money.

The important difference with the sports car is that sports cars are hard to steal.  Movies are pretty trivially easy to pirate. Like it or not, that definitely affects the market price of an item.  The music industry figured this out already.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-04-26 02:48:15 PM  

Theaetetus: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Theaetetus:

Is The Oatmeal selling the pirated GoT episodes?  Or making money off of them?

No?

Is he distributing them?
Yes?


Then it has farking nothing at farking all to do with the funnyjunk thing and is not even close to being a similar situation or ironic in any way whatsoever.

Both copyright infringement. Both with the infringer making money off of advertising. You're right, nothing at all similar there. [eyeroll]



What?!?

Uhhhh, how exactly does him writing a comic about it being a pain in the ass for him to pay for GOT translate in to him distributing GOT? He wrote a comic about it, not posted a rip of it to his site for his visitors to download for free...

The only thing he made money from off of advertising is people viewing his own creation, the comic. Are you suggesting that anyone who mentions GOT in something they write is infringing on HBO's copyright? That's not how speech works in this country. Yet.
 
2013-04-26 02:48:24 PM  
Nobody is screwing anyone. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy it!!!! Jesus what a sense of entitlement in this country. Also, the Sansa chapters sucked and the Tyrion chapters ruled. That is all.
 
2013-04-26 02:49:50 PM  

BgJonson79: ha-ha-guy: Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.

I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.

So if you were a content provider, you'd be okay with people infringing your copyright?


If I were a content provider, I'd make it as easy as possible for people to access my content. You see, I'd want their money, so I'd want as many options as possible to distribute my content in exchange for their money. I'd want my content in as many countries and in as many formats as consumers showed an interest in. If a guy in Budapest wants DVD's, I want him to buy my stuff on DVD. If a guy in the U.S. wants to see my stuff on HBO via cable, I'd want my stuff on HBO. If a guy in Portugal wanted to download something I'd created I'd want him to be able to buy it and save it straight to his PC. If some guy traveling via ocean liner wants to watch my stuff while crossing the Pacific, I'd want my content streaming to him via satellite.

I can't say I'd be "ok" with people infringing my copyright, but I would do all I could to discourage it while accepting that I cannot entirely prevent it. I'd focus on making it more widely available and affordable in the hopes of maximizing legitimate purchases.
 
2013-04-26 02:49:53 PM  
BF gets HBO just for GoT and then cancels it (and I pay him half of the utilities). I buy the blu-rays when they come out.

I have noticed that a few days after the episode is aired, people post lots of clips on YouTube. I'm not saying you can get the entire unadulterated episode, but the best stuff is there for sure.

Am I the only one who has watched this S3 E4 sequence on YouTube like 20 times already?
Do not watch if you don't want to be spoiled by one of the most epic things ever shown on television.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afzEd-fCWq0
 
2013-04-26 02:50:02 PM  

Mantour: Lollipop165: Mantour: But Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey) is broke  : "Game of Thrones star Lena Headey has filed legal documents stating she is flat broke and has "less than $5 in her bank account".


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/04/game-of-thrones-star-lena-heade y- broke

A similar article was posted the other day. She's been in quite a few movies and TV shows. I gotta wonder how she became so broke.

Divorce Attorneys!


She could also just be an idiot about money. It wouldn't be the first time.
 
2013-04-26 02:50:09 PM  

LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.

Perhaps i am just not getting your argument.  Explain why they are not comparable, without invoking the irrelevant distinction between rivalrous private goods and non-rivalrous club goods.

So assume your point is correct, then argue how it's wrong? No thanks.


No good sir - you are conflating the distinction between whether a product is rivalrous  - i.e. can many people use the same thing without diminishing it, and whether it is excludable - i.e. are there mechanisms to prevent people from using the product without permission.

However, from your response it take it you are a believer in the concept that non-rivalrous goods should not be excludable - that you are in fact against the idea of club goods.  If that is the case, then i suppose the output is that you believe club goods like IP are always worth 0 (non-excludable goods are pretty much the definition of free).  I suppose then, sure fine, any price for, say a TV show would be too high, and any attempt to exclude would be improper.

is that your argument?
 
2013-04-26 02:50:52 PM  

thornhill: Mercutio74: I'm in the film industry and even I think that the bean counters need to come up with a reasonable business model.  I'd happily pay to rent movies, but with Blockbuster gone there's no real option for a physical rental (they chased all the independents out years ago).

Netflix. They don't just stream.


I'm in Canada.  Netflix sucks here.  There's no such thing as a "new release" for feature films.  Unless that's changed in the last year.
 
2013-04-26 02:51:21 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The show is better than the books. Yeah, I said it.


The show eliminated the purpose of characters like Sansa, Davos and Catelyn, but left them in for no reason. They exist only to show what's happening to other characters. Giving Cersei, Joffrey, Stannis and Robb POV means there's nothing for the aforementioned characters to do, making them more boring than they used to be. Arya and Tyrion are the same, but they're actually interesting.

So now they have to fill Catelyn's mouth with dumb shiat like "I wished Jon Snow was dead, then I swore I'd love him forever and didn't" and pack Sansa's scenes with action like staring at boats. And because of dumb shiat like this, they cut fluff like the Reeds' entire reason for being with Bran, and have to worm their way around it with weird shiat like them attacking his camp.
 
2013-04-26 02:51:23 PM  

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Nobody is screwing anyone. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy it!!!! Jesus what a sense of entitlement in this country. Also, the Sansa chapters sucked and the Tyrion chapters ruled. That is all.


Nah, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, instead of doing without.

When they offer an HBO-Go system where I can buy it direct through the internet, then I'll pay them legitimately.  Until then, screw it.  I'm not paying $65 a month with an extra $20 a month for premium channels for ONE show that only has ten episodes in a six month span.
 
2013-04-26 02:52:24 PM  

redmid17: itazurakko: Teiritzamna: I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.

People are criticizing HBO (and similar companies) for turning down easy money.

The important difference with the sports car is that sports cars are hard to steal.  Movies are pretty trivially easy to pirate. Like it or not, that definitely affects the market price of an item.  The music industry figured this out already.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 495x337]


I always loved that picture because, fark yeah i totally would. I think if you asked most people if they could get private goods for free without any real risk of getting into trouble, would they do so, they would jump at it.

Its why i often think the conflation of rivalrousness and excludability is a herring that be red.
 
2013-04-26 02:52:26 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.

Perhaps i am just not getting your argument.  Explain why they are not comparable, without invoking the irrelevant distinction between rivalrous private goods and non-rivalrous club goods.

So assume your point is correct, then argue how it's wrong? No thanks.

No good sir - you are conflating the distinction between whether a product is rivalrous  - i.e. can many people use the same thing without diminishing it, and whether it is excludable - i.e. are there mechanisms to prevent people from using the product without permission.

However, from your response it take it you are a believer in the concept that non-rivalrous goods should not be excludable - that you are in fact against the idea of club goods.  If that is the case, then i suppose the output is that you believe club goods like IP are always worth 0 (non-excludable goods are pretty much the definition of free).  I suppose then, sure fine, any price for, say a TV show would be too high, and any attempt to exclude would be improper.

is that your argument?


Yes, my argument is that this one situation should dictate an entire ideology on products, and it should be taken as far as you logically can in any direction for maximum ridiculousness.

/are you taking Econ this semester or something?
 
2013-04-26 02:53:55 PM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-04-26 02:54:30 PM  
In Canada, non-commercial acts of piracy are subject to a maximum $5000 fine (total, not per incident), the suer has to prove harm, and is responsible for their own court costs.

What that means is that it makes very little sense for a copyright holder to legally pursue downloading that is done for non-commercial purposes.  Even if successful, their maximum return is $5k, less legal costs, which would likely well exceed $5k.

Therefore, just like the oil company that has done its risk assessment and has decided that it's cheaper to kill people than maintain their pipelines, I've made the educated decision to accept that risk and download openly.

I am not pretending that what I am doing is not theft.  I am under no illusion that what I am doing is not immoral.  It's why, if I download from local, aspiring, or underfunded content sources, I remunerate those sources directly, usually in cash.

But for all other content, I've made a practical decision.
 
2013-04-26 02:55:10 PM  

Infernalist: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Nobody is screwing anyone. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy it!!!! Jesus what a sense of entitlement in this country. Also, the Sansa chapters sucked and the Tyrion chapters ruled. That is all.

Nah, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, instead of doing without.

When they offer an HBO-Go system where I can buy it direct through the internet, then I'll pay them legitimately.  Until then, screw it.  I'm not paying $65 a month with an extra $20 a month for premium channels for ONE show that only has ten episodes in a six month span.


Or you could, you know, wait.  You're not entitled to Game of Thrones on release day.  Just because you can access something illegally doesn't justify you getting it that way when the provider doesn't bend to your every whim.
 
2013-04-26 02:55:38 PM  

geek_mars: BgJonson79: ha-ha-guy: Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.

I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.

So if you were a content provider, you'd be okay with people infringing your copyright?

<tl;dr>

I can't say I'd be "ok" with people infringing my copyright, but I would do all I could to discourage it while accepting that I cannot entirely prevent it. I'd focus on making it more widely available and affordable in the hopes of maximizing legitimate purchases.

That's a perfectly honest and valid and even moral answer.  New here? ;-)

 
2013-04-26 02:56:02 PM  

Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.


As soon as I moved out of my house I never got cable TV, most people my age never have or got very basic for football games.

The only thing I miss is stumbling upon a random show, sometimes that's all I want to do.
 
2013-04-26 02:56:13 PM  

LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.

Perhaps i am just not getting your argument.  Explain why they are not comparable, without invoking the irrelevant distinction between rivalrous private goods and non-rivalrous club goods.

So assume your point is correct, then argue how it's wrong? No thanks.

No good sir - you are conflating the distinction between whether a product is rivalrous  - i.e. can many people use the same thing without diminishing it, and whether it is excludable - i.e. are there mechanisms to prevent people from using the product without permission.

However, from your response it take it you are a believer in the concept that non-rivalrous goods should not be excludable - that you are in fact against the idea of club goods.  If that is the case, then i suppose the output is that you believe club goods like IP are always worth 0 (non-excludable goods are pretty much the definition of free).  I suppose then, sure fine, any price for, say a TV show would be too high, and any attempt to exclude would be improper.

is that your argument?

Yes, my argument is that this one situation should dictate an entire ideology on products, and it should be taken as far as you logically can in any direction for maximum ridiculousness.

/are you taking Econ this semester or something?


I take it from your response this is not your argument.  Could you please explain where I am wrong?

/because you asked, I am an Intellectual Property Attorney.  I spend the bulk of my time figuring out how to breaking bad patents and thus broadening the public domain.  I also learned copyright from a professor who helped pretty much invent the modern idea of fair use.
 
2013-04-26 02:56:40 PM  

rugman11: Infernalist: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Nobody is screwing anyone. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy it!!!! Jesus what a sense of entitlement in this country. Also, the Sansa chapters sucked and the Tyrion chapters ruled. That is all.

Nah, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, instead of doing without.

When they offer an HBO-Go system where I can buy it direct through the internet, then I'll pay them legitimately.  Until then, screw it.  I'm not paying $65 a month with an extra $20 a month for premium channels for ONE show that only has ten episodes in a six month span.

Or you could, you know, wait.  You're not entitled to Game of Thrones on release day.  Just because you can access something illegally doesn't justify you getting it that way when the provider doesn't bend to your every whim.


Wait for what?  Does waiting a week before downloading it make it better somehow?  lol  'wait!'
 
2013-04-26 02:59:33 PM  

moothemagiccow: The Stealth Hippopotamus: The show is better than the books. Yeah, I said it.

The show eliminated the purpose of characters like Sansa, Davos and Catelyn, but left them in for no reason. They exist only to show what's happening to other characters. Giving Cersei, Joffrey, Stannis and Robb POV means there's nothing for the aforementioned characters to do, making them more boring than they used to be. Arya and Tyrion are the same, but they're actually interesting.

So now they have to fill Catelyn's mouth with dumb shiat like "I wished Jon Snow was dead, then I swore I'd love him forever and didn't" and pack Sansa's scenes with action like staring at boats. And because of dumb shiat like this, they cut fluff like the Reeds' entire reason for being with Bran, and have to worm their way around it with weird shiat like them attacking his camp.


I've read the books up until middle of the 4th where I stalled out. For the most part the TV version comes off as strongly tightened and I don't mind most of the changes. The producers have made Catelyn and Cersei more sympathetic and more fleshed out. Why not, they have good actresses playing the roles.

GRRM came up with some good stuff but his writing is uneven and some of it is at the level of fanfic. I stalled out because I'm annoyed at all these chapters introducing new people while the pre-existing characters are MIA or doing nothing - it's just flabby. I'm glad David Benioff and Dan Weiss came along and slapped this epic into shape.

One thing I learned from LotR and before that, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, is that anybody can come along and piss all over your fanboy/fangirl dreams, sometimes the creator him/herself. So try not to get too invested in some movie or TV show being exactly what you expect, it will always disappoint you.
 
2013-04-26 02:59:39 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I am honestly amazed that you think this stuff is comparable in any way.

Perhaps i am just not getting your argument.  Explain why they are not comparable, without invoking the irrelevant distinction between rivalrous private goods and non-rivalrous club goods.

So assume your point is correct, then argue how it's wrong? No thanks.

No good sir - you are conflating the distinction between whether a product is rivalrous  - i.e. can many people use the same thing without diminishing it, and whether it is excludable - i.e. are there mechanisms to prevent people from using the product without permission.

However, from your response it take it you are a believer in the concept that non-rivalrous goods should not be excludable - that you are in fact against the idea of club goods.  If that is the case, then i suppose the output is that you believe club goods like IP are always worth 0 (non-excludable goods are pretty much the definition of free).  I suppose then, sure fine, any price for, say a TV show would be too high, and any attempt to exclude would be improper.

is that your argument?


I can tell you think you're smart, but you're failing miserably at communicating that to the rest of us.

People ITT: "A lot of people pirate the current season of GoT because HBO has made it difficult to get legally."
You: "Oh, so because HBO isn't catering to your desired delivery model you think everything should be free!?"
People ITT: "Uh, no, that's not what we said at all."
You: "Buying the crown jewels! Cat poop coffee! Club goods! Rivalrous goods!  LOOK AT MEEEEE...I WENT TO COLLEGE AND I'M SO SMAAART!"
 
2013-04-26 03:01:59 PM  

thornhill: If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?


Why would you buy a movie when you can rent it whenever you want? Because renting it isn't owning it.
 
2013-04-26 03:03:01 PM  

Teiritzamna: I am an Intellectual Property Attorney.  I spend the bulk of my time figuring out how to breaking bad patents and thus broadening the public domain.  I also learned copyright from a professor who helped pretty much invent the modern idea of fair use.


It's actually good to know your background.

My argument... my argument is spiralling wildly out of control because we keep expanding it, which is what I am trying to stop from happening.

So my argument is that I am not trying to assess or inform the rules for an entire class of product, which is what you want me to do. That's FAR, FAR broader than I want to get into, or really have the qualifications to get into.

My argument is "make the product available, or get used to people getting it." If they want it, they will get it. If content producers made it EASY - come to HBO, buy the series to stream or download at a fair price, available to ANYONE who wants it. And if this moves us to "well international copyright is hard, which is why it's only available in some countries and furthermore..." - well, that's a poor argument.

Content producers 100% OWN the market and the laws on how it operates. Digitally distributed, infinitely reproducible content should be a money farm for producers, and all they need to do is make it easily available. Louis CK, Radiohead, and a huge host of others have found this out - make it easy to get and reasonably priced, and you will roll in money.

So I guess your argument of "you're not entitled to it if the owners don't offer you a way to buy it that doesn't suck horribly" sits very poorly with me. How about the content producers make it EASIER to get the content, so people do, money comes in, and everyone is happy?
 
2013-04-26 03:03:34 PM  

Infernalist: rugman11: Infernalist: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Nobody is screwing anyone. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy it!!!! Jesus what a sense of entitlement in this country. Also, the Sansa chapters sucked and the Tyrion chapters ruled. That is all.

Nah, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, instead of doing without.

When they offer an HBO-Go system where I can buy it direct through the internet, then I'll pay them legitimately.  Until then, screw it.  I'm not paying $65 a month with an extra $20 a month for premium channels for ONE show that only has ten episodes in a six month span.

Or you could, you know, wait.  You're not entitled to Game of Thrones on release day.  Just because you can access something illegally doesn't justify you getting it that way when the provider doesn't bend to your every whim.

Wait for what?  Does waiting a week before downloading it make it better somehow?  lol  'wait!'


There's a cost spectrum when it comes to HBO shows.  You want to watch it live, it'll cost you $255 (three months of cable plus three months of HBO.  If you're willing to wait six weeks, it'll cost you $95 (one month of cable plus one month of HBO).  If you're willing to wait ten months, it'll cost you $30 to stream or $40 for the DVD.  Wait a little longer than that and you can probably borrow it from your library for free.

If you don't want to pay through the nose for "one show that only has ten episodes," all you have to do is wait a little bit and it'll be cheap.  And you'll even be able to "buy it direct through the internet [and] pay them legitimately."

So yes, wait.
 
2013-04-26 03:04:28 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: People ITT: "A lot of people pirate the current season of GoT because HBO has made it difficult to get legally."
You: "Oh, so because HBO isn't catering to your desired delivery model you think everything should be free!?"
People ITT: "Uh, no, that's not what we said at all."
You: "Buying the crown jewels! Cat poop coffee! Club goods! Rivalrous goods! LOOK AT MEEEEE...I WENT TO COLLEGE AND I'M SO SMAAART!"


Actually this whole thing was based on the argument: I was "forced" to obtain game of thrones illegally.  Of course people will do illegal stuff because they don't want to pay for something - if you notice i high-fived a guy for having the balls to just say that. 

As to the rest, fark it man, i like analogies and i figure if we are gonna discuss something, it doesn't hurt to know what we are talking about.  I assume that everyone i am speaking to is smart.  I suppose i could dumb things down but i figure that is much more condescending.  Also, more importantly, i am an obnoxious pedant - it's totally why i am on fark.
 
2013-04-26 03:05:03 PM  

mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Theaetetus:

Is The Oatmeal selling the pirated GoT episodes?  Or making money off of them?

No?

Is he distributing them?
Yes?

What?!?

Uhhhh, how exactly does him writing a comic about it being a pain in the ass for him to pay for GOT translate in to him distributing GOT? He wrote a comic about it, not posted a rip of it to his site for his visitors to download for free...


See that torrent screenshot showing his upload rate?

"But that's just a comic!"

Yes, this whole discussion assumes the comic reflects reality. I'm certainly not suggesting HBO should rush off and file suit.
 
2013-04-26 03:06:05 PM  

Teiritzamna: Infernalist: Also, mister Ambassador, here is the President of Programming for HBO, talking about the show you're so valiantly defending from downloaders:

Oh for the love of pete - read above.  I really am not attempting to lodge a valiant defense of Game of Thrones.  I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without payingIt forced them to make the choice not to pay for it.  Obtaining it without paying for it, however, is because the parties in question still wanted it - or as is often implied here, felt they had a right to it.


Well, that's certainly true. That's not entirely the point, however. As another poster pointed out:

mongbiohazard: ...the old guard media companies have made things difficult for many customers like him to pay for the show legally in a timely fashion even if they want to quite a lot, and that is not only incentivising piracy for those people but actually going further and making it the best way for them to consume that media - with or without cash in hand.



Yes, piracy is illegal and it's theft and all that without question. That makes it wrong.
Yes, content providers and distributors, rather than respond to the demands of their target consumers, create an environment that more significantly encourages said target consumers to steal rather than to buy. That makes it stupid.
 
2013-04-26 03:06:40 PM  

suziequzie: But... they bring snacks and beer... so that's cool, right?


Oh wow, so not only are they getting to watch it without paying for it, but you're profiting off of it!  I bet you rebroadcast games without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, too.
 
2013-04-26 03:07:09 PM  

rugman11: Infernalist: rugman11: Infernalist: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Nobody is screwing anyone. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy it!!!! Jesus what a sense of entitlement in this country. Also, the Sansa chapters sucked and the Tyrion chapters ruled. That is all.

Nah, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, instead of doing without.

When they offer an HBO-Go system where I can buy it direct through the internet, then I'll pay them legitimately.  Until then, screw it.  I'm not paying $65 a month with an extra $20 a month for premium channels for ONE show that only has ten episodes in a six month span.

Or you could, you know, wait.  You're not entitled to Game of Thrones on release day.  Just because you can access something illegally doesn't justify you getting it that way when the provider doesn't bend to your every whim.

Wait for what?  Does waiting a week before downloading it make it better somehow?  lol  'wait!'

There's a cost spectrum when it comes to HBO shows.  You want to watch it live, it'll cost you $255 (three months of cable plus three months of HBO.  If you're willing to wait six weeks, it'll cost you $95 (one month of cable plus one month of HBO).  If you're willing to wait ten months, it'll cost you $30 to stream or $40 for the DVD.  Wait a little longer than that and you can probably borrow it from your library for free.

If you don't want to pay through the nose for "one show that only has ten episodes," all you have to do is wait a little bit and it'll be cheap.  And you'll even be able to "buy it direct through the internet [and] pay them legitimately."

So yes, wait.


I'd rather get it the next day for free.  And at 1080 quality, no less.

When they offer it up for a reasonable price per episode within a few days of airing along the lines of music singles and videos and audio books and movies, then I'll pay for it.  Othewise lol...wait TEN MONTHS lol.  Uh huh.
 
2013-04-26 03:07:38 PM  

Mr Guy: "If the 4 million people who watched 'Game of Thrones' legally had been illegal downloaders - the show would be off the air and there would never have been a season 3," Bleich said.

Except that's not what happened, HBO is more popular than ever, and Game of Thrones is wildly profitable.  So if you focus just on the metric of downloading, and ignore everything else about how business works, that attitude makes sense.  However, if you look at every metric of what "profitable" and "successful" means, downloaders aren't stealing from you, they are people whose price point has not yet been met.  There is zero demand from them at the current price point, and they only exist because your supply curve is fixed with legal constraints, but technology makes it easy to circumvent your supply curve.


Shut up amd stop making sense. This is the Internet.
 
2013-04-26 03:10:09 PM  

BgJonson79: geek_mars: BgJonson79: ha-ha-guy: Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.

I'm just the invisible hand of the market and you're a troll, such is life.

So if you were a content provider, you'd be okay with people infringing your copyright?

<tl;dr>

I can't say I'd be "ok" with people infringing my copyright, but I would do all I could to discourage it while accepting that I cannot entirely prevent it. I'd focus on making it more widely available and affordable in the hopes of maximizing legitimate purchases.

That's a perfectly honest and valid and even moral answer.  New here? ;-)


Not new, but also not well practiced. I'm joining twitter soon, though, so I can try and learn to make my point in fewer words. Once I've mastered that I'll take up text speek.
 
2013-04-26 03:13:15 PM  

LasersHurt: So I guess your argument of "you're not entitled to it if the owners don't offer you a way to buy it that doesn't suck horribly" sits very poorly with me. How about the content producers make it EASIER to get the content, so people do, money comes in, and everyone is happy?


Ah.  Ok a couple things.  First, from a "lets design a good system" sure, man, i think you are 100% correct.  I thought i was making it very clear i think HBO's system is dumb as hell, and is literally leaving money on the table.

My issue, however is that HBO has the right to leave money on the table.  Like any property owner, they have the right to ask crazy ass prices for their products.  And the consumers have every right to say "screw that."  Is this optimal?  Oh hell no.  And i would much rather what you are advocating, a more reasonable pricing and distribution system.

However, my only argument, really, is that people who see the above interaction and say "HBO made me download it illegally" are making a ridiculous statement.  I see that as being a totally separate issue to whether everyone would be happier if HBO stopped sucking and let people buy the shows ala carte.
 
2013-04-26 03:13:53 PM  

Infernalist: When they offer it up for a reasonable price per episode within a few days of airing along the lines of music singles and videos and audio books and movies, then I'll pay for it. Othewise lol...wait TEN MONTHS lol. Uh huh.


This is the thing I don't understand.  When you look at US content producers, these are billion dollar companies.  Hell, most of them have their own distribution company as part of the overall business.  The idea is that these are intelligent businessmen (and women) who can take the pulse of the public and provide something that most people would want to watch.  And they have the resources to do it.

But, when they're faced with a problem like rampant downloading and the opportunity to make small and probably inexpensive adjustments to their business model, they call the lawyers and start suing individual copyright infringers (or worse, making silly and ineffective anti-piracy ads).  A trillion dollar industry is literally hamstrung by torrents.  Really?
 
2013-04-26 03:14:39 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: So I guess your argument of "you're not entitled to it if the owners don't offer you a way to buy it that doesn't suck horribly" sits very poorly with me. How about the content producers make it EASIER to get the content, so people do, money comes in, and everyone is happy?

Ah.  Ok a couple things.  First, from a "lets design a good system" sure, man, i think you are 100% correct.  I thought i was making it very clear i think HBO's system is dumb as hell, and is literally leaving money on the table.

My issue, however is that HBO has the right to leave money on the table.  Like any property owner, they have the right to ask crazy ass prices for their products.  And the consumers have every right to say "screw that."  Is this optimal?  Oh hell no.  And i would much rather what you are advocating, a more reasonable pricing and distribution system.

However, my only argument, really, is that people who see the above interaction and say "HBO made me download it illegally" are making a ridiculous statement.  I see that as being a totally separate issue to whether everyone would be happier if HBO stopped sucking and let people buy the shows ala carte.


I see that mostly as a "Hey HBO, are you paying attention!?" Like a kid acting out - sure, they're not right to do so, but maybe they are calling attention to something important?
 
2013-04-26 03:16:28 PM  

Egalitarian: moothemagiccow: The Stealth Hippopotamus: The show is better than the books. Yeah, I said it.

The show eliminated the purpose of characters like Sansa, Davos and Catelyn, but left them in for no reason. They exist only to show what's happening to other characters. Giving Cersei, Joffrey, Stannis and Robb POV means there's nothing for the aforementioned characters to do, making them more boring than they used to be. Arya and Tyrion are the same, but they're actually interesting.

So now they have to fill Catelyn's mouth with dumb shiat like "I wished Jon Snow was dead, then I swore I'd love him forever and didn't" and pack Sansa's scenes with action like staring at boats. And because of dumb shiat like this, they cut fluff like the Reeds' entire reason for being with Bran, and have to worm their way around it with weird shiat like them attacking his camp.

I've read the books up until middle of the 4th where I stalled out. For the most part the TV version comes off as strongly tightened and I don't mind most of the changes. The producers have made Catelyn and Cersei more sympathetic and more fleshed out. Why not, they have good actresses playing the roles.

GRRM came up with some good stuff but his writing is uneven and some of it is at the level of fanfic. I stalled out because I'm annoyed at all these chapters introducing new people while the pre-existing characters are MIA or doing nothing - it's just flabby. I'm glad David Benioff and Dan Weiss came along and slapped this epic into shape.

One thing I learned from LotR and before that, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, is that anybody can come along and piss all over your fanboy/fangirl dreams, sometimes the creator him/herself. So try not to get too invested in some movie or TV show being exactly what you expect, it will always disappoint you.


That's actually what I like about this series. It's not a basic mystery, where you can see what's coming. After season 2 of the show, I don't expect much from it.

My problem is that it's a poor adaptation riddled with plot holes. It's kind of like the Harry Potter movies, or LotR. If you aren't familiar with the source, you're going to have trouble understanding why one character is doing what they do. If you are familiar with the source, you're going to wonder what the hell's going on.
 
2013-04-26 03:16:29 PM  

Mercutio74: But, when they're faced with a problem like rampant downloading and the opportunity to make small and probably inexpensive adjustments to their business model, they call the lawyers and start suing individual copyright infringers (or worse, making silly and ineffective anti-piracy ads). A trillion dollar industry is literally hamstrung by torrents. Really?


I would say they are stuck in a red queen scenario - they believe that they must continue to drop the hammer because if they dont then they really will get hamstrung by torrents.  I.e. they have seen what happened to porno and are terrified.

I doubt this is really going to happen to them, but it appears to be their thinking.
 
2013-04-26 03:16:42 PM  

AgentBang: Thanks Stealth...sometimes trolls go fishing and sometimes people feel like they need to be hooked.


Wow some people take being proven wrong well, then there is this guy.

I'm betting he has a blood pressure problem, and a few ulcers
 
2013-04-26 03:17:57 PM  

LasersHurt: I see that mostly as a "Hey HBO, are you paying attention!?" Like a kid acting out - sure, they're not right to do so, but maybe they are calling attention to something important?


Except the same message could be sent by not consuming it at all and making the same complaints. It seems more of a cake and eat it kinda thing to me.
 
2013-04-26 03:19:41 PM  

Teiritzamna: I assume that everyone i am speaking to is smart.


No, you're assuming that everyone you're speaking to has the same knowledge base that you do, and there's a world of difference there.  I know a lot about DNS, but it would be presumptuous of me to just assume that everyone else knows what I'm talking about if I start referring to DHCID and NSEC records.  You may think of it as "dumbing things down" but it's better to think of it as "speaking to your target audience."  The number of attorneys in this thread is pretty close to 1, so don't speak like you would to other attorneys since lawyers are outnumbered here.  ;)
 
2013-04-26 03:20:33 PM  

geek_mars: Yes, piracy is illegal and it's theft and all that without question. That makes it wrong.
Yes, content providers and distributors, rather than respond to the demands of their target consumers, create an environment that more significantly encourages said target consumers to steal rather than to buy. That makes it stupid.


But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States and, even so, it remains the country that downloads the most.  They have easier access than pretty much any other country, that is, HBO has "create[d] an environment that significantly encourages said target customers" to buy rather than steal, and people still steal.
 
2013-04-26 03:21:01 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I see that mostly as a "Hey HBO, are you paying attention!?" Like a kid acting out - sure, they're not right to do so, but maybe they are calling attention to something important?

Except the same message could be sent by not consuming it at all and making the same complaints. It seems more of a cake and eat it kinda thing to me.


Because they don't care if you complain, or can't pay them. Clearly they don't mind at all if those users don't consume. If they cared, at all, they would make it available.
 
2013-04-26 03:22:30 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Teiritzamna: I assume that everyone i am speaking to is smart.

No, you're assuming that everyone you're speaking to has the same knowledge base that you do, and there's a world of difference there.  I know a lot about DNS, but it would be presumptuous of me to just assume that everyone else knows what I'm talking about if I start referring to DHCID and NSEC records.  You may think of it as "dumbing things down" but it's better to think of it as "speaking to your target audience."  The number of attorneys in this thread is pretty close to 1, so don't speak like you would to other attorneys since lawyers are outnumbered here.  ;)


fair enough - although usually when i hit a thread where people start tossing around actual terms-of-art i just use google and wiki magic.
 
2013-04-26 03:22:56 PM  

geek_mars: Yes, piracy is illegal and it's theft and all that without question. That makes it wrong.
Yes, content providers and distributors, rather than respond to the demands of their target consumers, create an environment that more significantly encourages said target consumers to steal rather than to buy. That makes it stupid.


Didn't we go through this with music already?  HBO needs to stop making such high quality popular shows if they don't want them stolen. Their business model is obviously working for them, because they can still afford to make these shows, regardless of theft. If they think they can make more money streaming it with ads or selling it on itunes, they will.

This diplomat is talking without any prompt from HBO
 
2013-04-26 03:23:29 PM  

Teiritzamna: I.e. they have seen what happened to porno and are terrified.


What has been the overall difference in profitablity for porn pre and post internet?
 
2013-04-26 03:23:46 PM  

Teiritzamna: LasersHurt: I see that mostly as a "Hey HBO, are you paying attention!?" Like a kid acting out - sure, they're not right to do so, but maybe they are calling attention to something important?

Except the same message could be sent by not consuming it at all and making the same complaints. It seems more of a cake and eat it kinda thing to me.


That same message had been given since the birth of the premium cable system.  The cable providers didn't care.  They ignored that message of 'hey give us what we want!'.  They straight up ignored it or said 'screw you, pay us what we want or do without'.

The only thing that's changed is that the internet and torrenting has completely invalidated their ability to keep control over their content.  So, now that they can't ignore the message any longer, or just say 'screw up guys', they have to either continue their futile protesting or GIVE US WHAT WE'VE WANTED FROM THE BEGINNING.

The only thing that's kept them from providing a 'per episode' sales approach is pure unadulterated greed.   It's not enough to be profitable, not for them.  They have to squeeze out every last dollar that they can through the current system of 'a few gems mixed into a metric ton of shiat'.
 
2013-04-26 03:25:44 PM  

rugman11: But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States


Actually the article doesn't say that.  It says that Australians only have to wait a few hours to access the episodes by "legitimate means", but it fails to specify what those means are.  If they're the same as they are in the US, i.e., you have to have a subscription to HBO, they're facing the same situation that people in the US are facing who want to watch it, but don't have HBO.
 
2013-04-26 03:26:11 PM  

moothemagiccow: So now they have to fill Catelyn's mouth with dumb shiat like "I wished Jon Snow was dead, then I swore I'd love him forever and didn't" and pack Sansa's scenes with action like staring at boats. And because of dumb shiat like this, they cut fluff like the Reeds' entire reason for being with Bran, and have to worm their way around it with weird shiat like them attacking his camp.


Nothing can be as bad as the internal monologue that Sansa has with herself. Sansa on TV is a person that we can empathize with and can care about. I swear I was hoping for her bloody death though most of the books.

And I like that books a lot. I just love the show.

Wish they let her:
img705.imageshack.us

Keep her original hair color. Darker hair is hotter. It is known.
 
2013-04-26 03:27:19 PM  

Mercutio74: Teiritzamna: I.e. they have seen what happened to porno and are terrified.

What has been the overall difference in profitablity for porn pre and post internet?


I can speak to that.  I used to work for a number of years in a porn/smoke shop in the early 1990s.

Most 'quality' vids from known studios went for $40-80 bucks each.  Low quality stuff, or amateur stuff went for $20 to 30 bucks.  Mags went for $20 for 4packs up to $15 PER mag for hardcore stuff.

These days...well...the porn industry is nearly dead.  The combination of torrenting, porn-for-free clearinghouse websites and the HIV scare in the last couple of years has just about destroyed the entire business.
 
2013-04-26 03:27:52 PM  

moothemagiccow: thornhill: If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?

Why would you buy a movie when you can rent it whenever you want? Because renting it isn't owning it.


Consumer habits say otherwise. Sales and rentals of physical media are down because of streaming.
 
2013-04-26 03:28:47 PM  

Mercutio74: What has been the overall difference in profitablity for porn pre and post internet?


My understanding is that the piracy has basically cratered the big pron industry, and what has risen instaed is much cheaper gonzo or amateur outfits with much much lower production values (i.e. less money in as there is less money out.) As a consumer we can easily argue whether this is good or bad, but for the old guard bigger pron businesses, the last decade has been a shiatshow.

As I said, this is just my understanding - i alas, lack graphs or anything - but i can see how other media would fear this result, even though i really doubt it would affect anything else (as the big driver in porn downloads is the shame factor, not just the price)
 
2013-04-26 03:29:11 PM  

Infernalist: Mercutio74: Teiritzamna: I.e. they have seen what happened to porno and are terrified.

What has been the overall difference in profitablity for porn pre and post internet?

I can speak to that.  I used to work for a number of years in a porn/smoke shop in the early 1990s.

Most 'quality' vids from known studios went for $40-80 bucks each.  Low quality stuff, or amateur stuff went for $20 to 30 bucks.  Mags went for $20 for 4packs up to $15 PER mag for hardcore stuff.

These days...well...the porn industry is nearly dead.  The combination of torrenting, porn-for-free clearinghouse websites and the HIV scare in the last couple of years has just about destroyed the entire business.


Thanks for that.  It's difficult to find numbers.
 
2013-04-26 03:29:22 PM  

thornhill: moothemagiccow: thornhill: If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?

Why would you buy a movie when you can rent it whenever you want? Because renting it isn't owning it.

Consumer habits say otherwise. Sales and rentals of physical media are down because of streaming.


Michael Lombardo has point blank stated that downloading hasn't touched their DVD sales.  It's why he's not all that worked up over it.
 
2013-04-26 03:29:23 PM  

thornhill: moothemagiccow: thornhill: If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?

Why would you buy a movie when you can rent it whenever you want? Because renting it isn't owning it.

Consumer habits say otherwise. Sales and rentals of physical media are down because of streaming.


Jesus they aren't mutually exclusive. There are plenty of reasons to want to have physical media even if you have the ability to stream it.
 
2013-04-26 03:29:35 PM  

Obiwontaun: Malacon: Igor Jakovsky: there really is no need to dl it with torrents if you can just stream it for free about an hour after the broadcast. Or you could do what i did and call up comcast and biatch about the rates and they may not only lower your rate but give you more channels and hbo for free. i called them and threatened to go to uverse. they knocked $25 a month off my bill gave me their upper tier package with hbo for free. if they are doing things like that they must actually feel threatened by uverse or people cutting off the cable in general. if they had not helped me out i would have done one or the other.

I biatched about my rates a while ago, and they kinda hinted they'd give me HBO but I was trying to bring my bill down, so I told them no. Kind of regret it, honestly. I probably gain anything in cash off by turning down HBO.

A friend just lets me borrow his HBOGO password, so I watch it the next day.

FYI it's available on there as soon as its done airing. I do the same thing.


For season 3 it's been available at the same time. I watch it on Go when everyone else watches it on the actual channel.
 
2013-04-26 03:30:06 PM  

Mercutio74: Teiritzamna: I.e. they have seen what happened to porno and are terrified.

What has been the overall difference in profitablity for porn pre and post internet?


Well if the porn distro companies are to be believed, the Internet is destroying their profitability via piracy.  I think they're (potentially deliberately) ignoring the impact of amateur porn.  Yes, porn gets pirated like crazy, but people filming their own farking and posting it online is booming and is also taking a chunk of the porn pie that the studios aren't seeing a dime from.
 
2013-04-26 03:32:19 PM  

thornhill: moothemagiccow: thornhill: If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?

Why would you buy a movie when you can rent it whenever you want? Because renting it isn't owning it.

Consumer habits say otherwise. Sales and rentals of physical media are down because of streaming.


I have bought only a half dozen CDs in the past several years since Pandora became available, down from well over a thousand in my collection from the 1990s-early 2000s. I listen to much more music now, too.
 
2013-04-26 03:35:43 PM  

Teiritzamna: y understanding is that the piracy has basically cratered the big pron industry, and what has risen instaed is much cheaper gonzo or amateur outfits with much much lower production values (i.e. less money in as there is less money out.) As a consumer we can easily argue whether this is good or bad, but for the old guard bigger pron businesses, the last decade has been a shiatshow.


I would argue that's less likely to happen in television and film making.  The thing about porn is at the center of it, there's just farking.  I don't have a lot of trouble thinking about how all of the bright shiny sets and complex lighting and stirring performances and visual effects could all be simply dropped out of it and you're left with...  farking.  Which was the point of it.

The public's taste for narrative drama however does demand a lot of those things.  If you neglect too much production value, no one wants to watch.  Some productions demand a sense of scope, like GoT for example.

I mean, look at yearly box offices for feature films... they're still going up.  If porn and "mainstream" entertainment had that much in common, we should at least see a modest decline in box office takes, but they're actually quite healthy.
 
2013-04-26 03:37:31 PM  

Theaetetus: I have bought only a half dozen CDs in the past several years since Pandora became available


Heh, Pandora is pretty much the only time I trick the internet into thinking I'm in the US...  it's kinda awesome and has introduced me to all kinds of bands and performers I'd never have known about.
 
2013-04-26 03:40:25 PM  

Theaetetus: See that torrent screenshot showing his upload rate?

"But that's just a comic!"

Yes, this whole discussion assumes the comic reflects reality. I'm certainly not suggesting HBO should rush off and file suit.



See the screenshot of http://www.bigtimeawesometorrentbucket.com/ ? That's not a real site. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not documentaries.

None of your arguments are making any sense in this thread, which is very out of character for you. You didn't share your login information with tenpoundsofcheese today, did you?  ;)
 
2013-04-26 03:41:21 PM  

itazurakko: Teiritzamna: I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.

People are criticizing HBO (and similar companies) for turning down easy money.

The important difference with the sports car is that sports cars are hard to steal.  Movies are pretty trivially easy to pirate. Like it or not, that definitely affects the market price of an item.  The music industry figured this out already.


I criticize them for not being more price sensitive. The reality is that 35 bucks for one season of one show is an unrealistic market price... if they set it at 10 or 15 bucks, they'd have far more takers.  Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues... I fault the end users to some extent, but from the econ side of things where I live, I see this as a pretty easily fixable problems if people focused on market-based solutions instead of trying to get the government to do something unrealistic (stop piracy) so they can enhance information asymmetry about the quality of the product and charge above-market values.
 
2013-04-26 03:41:30 PM  

Teufelaffe: rugman11: But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States

Actually the article doesn't say that.  It says that Australians only have to wait a few hours to access the episodes by "legitimate means", but it fails to specify what those means are.  If they're the same as they are in the US, i.e., you have to have a subscription to HBO, they're facing the same situation that people in the US are facing who want to watch it, but don't have HBO.


You're right.  I misread the article, apparently HBO is a cable channel in Australia
 
2013-04-26 03:42:36 PM  

I_C_Weener: Dude!  Spoilers!

Also, I view Australia kind of like he wildlings north of the wall...lawless.


The book is years old. The spoilers statute of limitations is long expired.
 
2013-04-26 03:44:29 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Wish they let her:
[img705.imageshack.us image 635x500]

Keep her original hair color. Darker hair is hotter. It is known.


Agreed. She's hotter as a brunette. Still hot as a blond though... Too bad she's the worst actress/actor on the show. Still like her character and enjoy her arc though.
 
2013-04-26 03:44:36 PM  
This seems like a good place to ask.

I've watched all episodes of GoT. I've bought the first book and I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. It seems the book and show are pretty damn similar.

Could I just skip ahead and start reading book 3, or is there enough difference that it would be better to read book 2?
 
2013-04-26 03:44:38 PM  

Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian


Exactly this.

HBO could be making a massive killing if they just charged 5 bucks per episode, available to download without DRM when it airs. People would absolutely pay for that, and HBO would get 50 bucks for the season, which is right on par with a Blu-Ray/DVD set.

But no, they keep trying to wrangle everyone into buying the rest of their stuff, which pretty much NO ONE cares about.
 
2013-04-26 03:46:47 PM  

firefly212: itazurakko: Teiritzamna: I am merely pointing out that the argument that HBO's stupidly expensive and silly distribution shenanigans in no way "forced" anyone to obtain it without paying.

People are criticizing HBO (and similar companies) for turning down easy money.

The important difference with the sports car is that sports cars are hard to steal.  Movies are pretty trivially easy to pirate. Like it or not, that definitely affects the market price of an item.  The music industry figured this out already.

I criticize them for not being more price sensitive. The reality is that 35 bucks for one season of one show is an unrealistic market price... if they set it at 10 or 15 bucks, they'd have far more takers.  Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues... I fault the end users to some extent, but from the econ side of things where I live, I see this as a pretty easily fixable problems if people focused on market-based solutions instead of trying to get the government to do something unrealistic (stop piracy) so they can enhance information asymmetry about the quality of the product and charge above-market values.


But this is America; you always blame the person at the end of the line and then punish them.  Fixing or adjusting what might lead to or exacerbate the problem is unacceptable.
 
2013-04-26 03:48:11 PM  

mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: See that torrent screenshot showing his upload rate?

"But that's just a comic!"

Yes, this whole discussion assumes the comic reflects reality. I'm certainly not suggesting HBO should rush off and file suit.


See the screenshot of http://www.bigtimeawesometorrentbucket.com/ ? That's not a real site. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not documentaries.


See the screenshot of Transmission.app? That's a real app. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not fake applications.
 
2013-04-26 03:48:39 PM  

impaler: This seems like a good place to ask.

I've watched all episodes of GoT. I've bought the first book and I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. It seems the book and show are pretty damn similar.

Could I just skip ahead and start reading book 3, or is there enough difference that it would be better to read book 2?


The first couple books are the best, read them and enjoy them.  However by all means feel free to skip chapters of characters you don't like.

Spoiler: Starting with Feast, Book 4, the writing gets bad.  

/when I reread the books I just reflexively skipped the Sansa chapters and half the Arya ones
 
2013-04-26 03:49:11 PM  

I created this alt just for this thread: But this is America; you always blame the person at the end of the line and then punish them. Fixing or adjusting what might lead to or exacerbate the problem is unacceptable.


No. In America, half of us blame the big bad companies, the other half blames those damn freeloaders, and nothing actually gets fixed.
 
2013-04-26 03:49:23 PM  

impaler: This seems like a good place to ask.

I've watched all episodes of GoT. I've bought the first book and I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. It seems the book and show are pretty damn similar.

Could I just skip ahead and start reading book 3, or is there enough difference that it would be better to read book 2?


If you're interested in the story and the GOT "universe" I would strongly suggest reading the books. The show combines quite a few characters and omits a lot of background information. If you're not into all of that, then you're not really missing much by skipping to book 3. Bear in mind there will be some differences and you'll be confused by something that are completely different, yet ultimately not meaningful to forwarding the plot.
 
2013-04-26 03:49:24 PM  

firefly212: Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues...


If the titles are so bad with massive bugs and playability issues, then why are they bothering to pirate them?
 
2013-04-26 03:50:18 PM  

Teiritzamna: Mercutio74: But, when they're faced with a problem like rampant downloading and the opportunity to make small and probably inexpensive adjustments to their business model, they call the lawyers and start suing individual copyright infringers (or worse, making silly and ineffective anti-piracy ads). A trillion dollar industry is literally hamstrung by torrents. Really?

I would say they are stuck in a red queen scenario - they believe that they must continue to drop the hammer because if they dont then they really will get hamstrung by torrents.  I.e. they have seen what happened to porno and are terrified.

I doubt this is really going to happen to them, but it appears to be their thinking.


I think they're more terrified about what happened to the music industry.  Like television, the music industry was based on bundling (albums) and the vast majority of the industry profits came from bundling (more than 90% of profits came from album sales).  When the industry capitulated to pirates and started putting there product online through iTunes and other outlets, album sales plummeted because people stopped buying the bundle and started buying the singles.  The old music industry was killed because they couldn't just change the model for pirates, they had to change the model for everybody.

Now, the music industry obviously isn't entirely dead, but what's important to remember is that making and distributing a song is far cheaper than making and distributing a television show.  Artists can make it on their own under the new model in a way they couldn't before.  Some no-name Korean artist writes a weird but catchy song, sticks the video on YouTube for nothing and makes $10 million.  You can't do that with television.  It's expensive, and bundling shows together (and networks together) helps to offset the risk inherent to the business.  Television is not an industry that can survive unbundled.
 
2013-04-26 03:51:26 PM  

thornhill: moothemagiccow: thornhill: If you suddenly have access to all episodes of HBO shows, why would you ever buy them on home video?

Why would you buy a movie when you can rent it whenever you want? Because renting it isn't owning it.

Consumer habits say otherwise. Sales and rentals of physical media are down because of streaming.


The only figure I see is a projected decline for 2016. I also see vudu, a digital rental service, lumped in with netflix, a catalog subscription service. I won't deny that blu-ray isn't selling well, because no one owns a blu-ray player, blu-ray movies have an MSRP of $40, and retail selections are inherently limited.

I get that subscription services are more alluring, but you lose access the second you stop paying, and most people understand that difference. Convenience of streaming may be hurting physical media, but I doubt it's crippling digital sales.
 
2013-04-26 03:51:28 PM  

Theaetetus: mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: See that torrent screenshot showing his upload rate?

"But that's just a comic!"

Yes, this whole discussion assumes the comic reflects reality. I'm certainly not suggesting HBO should rush off and file suit.


See the screenshot of http://www.bigtimeawesometorrentbucket.com/ ? That's not a real site. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not documentaries.

See the screenshot of Transmission.app? That's a real app. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not fake applications.


Yes because it's easier and more convenient to photoshop an existing screenshot with minor modifications than it is to create one from scratch.

/you know, work smarter not harder
 
2013-04-26 03:53:00 PM  

Strolpol: Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian

Exactly this.

HBO could be making a massive killing if they just charged 5 bucks per episode, available to download without DRM when it airs. People would absolutely pay for that, and HBO would get 50 bucks for the season, which is right on par with a Blu-Ray/DVD set.

But no, they keep trying to wrangle everyone into buying the rest of their stuff, which pretty much NO ONE cares about.


The problem with that is their contracts with the cable companies.  Putting the episodes online would cost them subscribers and would really piss off the cable companies (who obviously make more money from HBO subscribers than HBO does).  And HBO isn't in a position where they can survive without the cable companies yet.
 
2013-04-26 03:55:57 PM  

Strolpol: Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian

Exactly this.

HBO could be making a massive killing if they just charged 5 bucks per episode, available to download without DRM when it airs. People would absolutely pay for that, and HBO would get 50 bucks for the season, which is right on par with a Blu-Ray/DVD set.

But no, they keep trying to wrangle everyone into buying the rest of their stuff, which pretty much NO ONE cares about.


Shouldn't HBO, as a rule, want you to buy the rest of their stuff? They're not GoTBO. It would be like the grocery putting the milk next to the register, where the candy bars are.
 
2013-04-26 03:56:36 PM  

moothemagiccow: Strolpol: Brittabot: I refuse to pay close to $25 a month for a movie package just so I can watch one channel one hour a week.

That said, I'd be more than willing to pay per episode or per season if I could download the show the same night it plays on television.

Since I can't do that, my only other option is to use less than legal means to get the show.

/Canadian

Exactly this.

HBO could be making a massive killing if they just charged 5 bucks per episode, available to download without DRM when it airs. People would absolutely pay for that, and HBO would get 50 bucks for the season, which is right on par with a Blu-Ray/DVD set.

But no, they keep trying to wrangle everyone into buying the rest of their stuff, which pretty much NO ONE cares about.

Shouldn't HBO, as a rule, want you to buy the rest of their stuff? They're not GoTBO. It would be like the grocery putting the milk next to the register, where the candy bars are.


Not if it means less revenue for the company in general
 
2013-04-26 03:56:52 PM  

redmid17: Yes because it's easier and more convenient to photoshop an existing screenshot with minor modifications than it is to create one from scratch.


It's even easier to download the latest episode of GoT and take a screenshot. :)

/plus, if he were shooping or creating a screenshot from scratch, why would he include the upload rate anyway?
 
2013-04-26 03:57:32 PM  

rugman11: Some no-name Korean artist writes a weird but catchy song, sticks the video on YouTube for nothing and makes $10 million.


Dude had multiple kits in Korea and the backing of a large K-Pop label, plus his female vocals were coming from the lead singer of a popular girls group (Hyuna from 4 Minute).  Don't get me wrong, the label didn't design the song to blow up in America, but they did design to be a big hit in Korea.  It wasn't some indie artist that just produced Gangam Style though.

/cranks the Brown Eyed Girls back up and goes back to work
 
2013-04-26 03:58:09 PM  

Theaetetus: firefly212: Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues...

If the titles are so bad with massive bugs and playability issues, then why are they bothering to pirate them?


Because people will put up with a lot more crap if they're not paying for it.

Free game - "Man this is buggy and shiatty, but I didn't pay for it, so meh."
$60 game - "This is buggy and shiatty AND THAT IS WORSE THAN HITLER AND I MUST TELL EVERYONE I KNOW."

/I'm pretty sure that the EA forums are the largest concentration of butthurt on Earth.
 
2013-04-26 04:05:04 PM  

Theaetetus: redmid17: Yes because it's easier and more convenient to photoshop an existing screenshot with minor modifications than it is to create one from scratch.

It's even easier to download the latest episode of GoT and take a screenshot. :)

/plus, if he were shooping or creating a screenshot from scratch, why would he include the upload rate anyway?


He would also be committing a copyright violation, which is the exact thing he rails against. There is absolutely no reason to do think he did so, especially when he went to the trouble of making a completely fictitious website.
 
2013-04-26 04:10:12 PM  

redmid17: He would also be committing a copyright violation, which is the exact thing he rails against.


If you read what Inman had to say about the whole FunnyJunk situation, he wasn't railing against copyright violation.  He was pissed because FunnyJunk was posting his work,  with attribution removed, and making money from it.  IIRC, he even says at one point that if the stuff had been posted unmodified, he wouldn't have had an issue.

It wasn't, "OMG, they're violating my copyright!" it was "OMG, they're profiting off my work and hiding the fact that it's my work!"
 
2013-04-26 04:12:14 PM  

ha-ha-guy: rugman11: Some no-name Korean artist writes a weird but catchy song, sticks the video on YouTube for nothing and makes $10 million.

Dude had multiple kits in Korea and the backing of a large K-Pop label, plus his female vocals were coming from the lead singer of a popular girls group (Hyuna from 4 Minute).  Don't get me wrong, the label didn't design the song to blow up in America, but they did design to be a big hit in Korea.  It wasn't some indie artist that just produced Gangam Style though.

/cranks the Brown Eyed Girls back up and goes back to work


So Psy was a bad example.  But Bieber basically did the same thing and Karmin and Owl City and a whole host of other groups who just wrote music, put it out there, and found success.  TV writers, on the other hand, don't have $2-3 million to shoot a professional pilot, so they rely on networks and production companies to fund it.  And the networks and production companies relying on bundling a bunch of shows together because for every Bieber there's going to be a dozen shows that flame out and fail.
 
2013-04-26 04:13:09 PM  

Dr._Michael_Hfuhruhurr: http://throneroom.eu Just sayin'.

/always pays his debts


Not bookmarking. Not at all.
 
2013-04-26 04:14:17 PM  

I created this alt just for this thread: redmid17: He would also be committing a copyright violation, which is the exact thing he rails against.

If you read what Inman had to say about the whole FunnyJunk situation, he wasn't railing against copyright violation.  He was pissed because FunnyJunk was posting his work,  with attribution removed, and making money from it.  IIRC, he even says at one point that if the stuff had been posted unmodified, he wouldn't have had an issue.

It wasn't, "OMG, they're violating my copyright!" it was "OMG, they're profiting off my work and hiding the fact that it's my work!"


I did read the entire thing. There's a reason why I wasn't prefacing with that argument. It's completely different than what Thaetatus point was.
 
2013-04-26 04:14:44 PM  
This just goes to show that many companies aren't run by business people. An actual business person when presented with the opportunity to have their product distributed around the world at very little cost with the chance to make boatloads of revenue would be all over that opportunity like flies on shiat. If HBO was run by someone who had any clue about business they'd set up a site for people from around the world to be able to watch Game of Thrones for a few bucks a month, and it would be a huge cash cow.
 
2013-04-26 04:16:07 PM  

redmid17: I created this alt just for this thread: redmid17: He would also be committing a copyright violation, which is the exact thing he rails against.

If you read what Inman had to say about the whole FunnyJunk situation, he wasn't railing against copyright violation.  He was pissed because FunnyJunk was posting his work,  with attribution removed, and making money from it.  IIRC, he even says at one point that if the stuff had been posted unmodified, he wouldn't have had an issue.

It wasn't, "OMG, they're violating my copyright!" it was "OMG, they're profiting off my work and hiding the fact that it's my work!"

I did read the entire thing. There's a reason why I wasn't prefacing with that argument. It's completely different than what Thaetatus point was.


Well, yeah, that argument is really more about moral rights of attribution.
 
2013-04-26 04:20:38 PM  

WhyteRaven74: This just goes to show that many companies aren't run by business people. An actual business person when presented with the opportunity to have their product distributed around the world at very little cost with the chance to make boatloads of revenue would be all over that opportunity like flies on shiat. If HBO was run by someone who had any clue about business they'd set up a site for people from around the world to be able to watch Game of Thrones for a few bucks a month, and it would be a huge cash cow.


The issue for HBO at present is two-fold.

1) they are bound in a series of contracts to the cable companies, who would cry bloody murder if HBO tried to distribute directly (cry bloody murder of course means sue the crap out of).

2)  less importantly, they make a ton of money as it is, so rejiggering their distribution system appears to be more trouble than it is worth.
 
2013-04-26 04:22:04 PM  

WhyteRaven74: This just goes to show that many companies aren't run by business people. An actual business person when presented with the opportunity to have their product distributed around the world at very little cost with the chance to make boatloads of revenue would be all over that opportunity like flies on shiat. If HBO was run by someone who had any clue about business they'd set up a site for people from around the world to be able to watch Game of Thrones for a few bucks a month, and it would be a huge cash cow.


I can understand that they are 100% most likely constrained by distribution rights deals.

Example, Sky has rights in the UK. If HBO puts up a site and takes money from the UK, they'd be breaking that contract with Sky.

That doesn't excuse it. Distribution rights need to be altered to come to terms with this Internet thing.

We consumers all pay our fair share for the content we consume, the content makers get paid for making that content.

It blows that season 2 just came out on BluRay/DVD in March in the UK, season 3 will be out next March.

We're not dirty downloaders (but we know a guy), but HBO/Sky could be doubling their money on us by letting us buy the season as it airs, and we'll still be buying the Blu Ray when it gets released.

/oddly enough, if we like something, we buy it.
 
2013-04-26 04:23:30 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: impaler: The 90s called. They want your moronically inefficient distribution models back.

It's the content provider's call. I'm sure Fark isn't the only people that has told HBO that "hey if you sale your top rated show per episode people may buy it". You think that's an original idea?! No. I guess HBO has figured that there are enough people out there like me (who will just sign up for the service) to off set the people who would only buy it on demand.

I don't think I would buy it per episode anyway. I like watching things on the big screen in the living room and I haven't figured out how to get my tv to run my Itunes content on it. I know I could just get an Apple TV but those are like a hundred bucks. I have a Wifi Samsung Airplay thingy that I use for net flicks and I also have a PS3 but I'll be damn if I can get it to show me all my movies. Ran monitor cable (inside the walls) from my computer to my TV but it's so slow and not in HD! And I have to go to the computer room to pause, fast forward or rewind.

I have tech issues.


if you have an android device, get goldworm remote.  keyboard and mouse remote control.
 
2013-04-26 04:24:08 PM  
HBO is taking a rational approach to this problem.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/26/hands-off-game-of-throne_n_ 31 60786.html


According to Jeff Cusson, HBO's senior vice president of corporate affairs, "We think the key to combating piracy is to make content like  Game of Thrones available worldwide within the smallest window possible...to 176 territories within the week of the U.S. premiere."

Cusson said, "HBO is also rolling out HBO Go internationally,"
 
2013-04-26 04:40:49 PM  

Theaetetus: firefly212: Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues...

If the titles are so bad with massive bugs and playability issues, then why are they bothering to pirate them?


Because once the package is opened/paid for online/etc, it cannot (or takes an act of farking congress to) be returned, no matter how large of a pile of shiat or how buggy the game actually is.
60 bucks is a big gamble with the way games are made now-a-days. I am not paying that kinda change to be a farking beta tester.
 
2013-04-26 04:41:02 PM  

Theaetetus: mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: See that torrent screenshot showing his upload rate?

"But that's just a comic!"

Yes, this whole discussion assumes the comic reflects reality. I'm certainly not suggesting HBO should rush off and file suit.


See the screenshot of http://www.bigtimeawesometorrentbucket.com/ ? That's not a real site. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not documentaries.

See the screenshot of Transmission.app? That's a real app. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not fake applications.



And where exactly do you see an app? All I see is a panel in a comic which looks like a screenshot of transmission.app.
 
2013-04-26 04:41:34 PM  

thisone: We're not dirty downloaders (but we know a guy), but HBO/Sky could be doubling their money on us by letting us buy the season as it airs, and we'll still be buying the Blu Ray when it gets released.

/oddly enough, if we like something, we buy it.


Do you really think that HBO doesn't have dozens of people on their staff whose sole job is to figure out how to make as much money as possible?  Right now, they're distributing their product through established means because that's the most profitable avenue.  Do you really think they wouldn't offer a way for downloaders to get the show legally if it wouldn't cost them already established customers?  The problem is that they can't change the model just for the illegal downloaders.  They have to change it for everybody.  And if they do that they risk losing some partners and customers.  I guarantee you that as soon as we reach the point where digital distribution becomes more profitable than the way it's being done now, HBO will jump.  But to claim that they're idiots who somehow don't understand how the world works and are leaving money on the table is just plain dumb.
 
2013-04-26 04:43:36 PM  

DeathCipris: Theaetetus: firefly212: Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues...

If the titles are so bad with massive bugs and playability issues, then why are they bothering to pirate them?

Because once the package is opened/paid for online/etc, it cannot (or takes an act of farking congress to) be returned, no matter how large of a pile of shiat or how buggy the game actually is.
60 bucks is a big gamble with the way games are made now-a-days. I am not paying that kinda change to be a farking beta tester.


I would also like to add I do not endorse piracy in such a public forum, but if a game IS actually good, THEN BUY IT. Support the devs.
 
2013-04-26 04:44:37 PM  

mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: See that torrent screenshot showing his upload rate?

"But that's just a comic!"

Yes, this whole discussion assumes the comic reflects reality. I'm certainly not suggesting HBO should rush off and file suit.


See the screenshot of http://www.bigtimeawesometorrentbucket.com/ ? That's not a real site. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not documentaries.

See the screenshot of Transmission.app? That's a real app. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not fake applications.


And where exactly do you see an app? All I see is a panel in a comic which looks like a screenshot of transmission.app.


I hit add comment before I had the chance to add, "The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not applications. They do make plenty of fake screenshots though. Bears are real things too, that doesn't mean when he drew a picture of one having sex with that lawyer's mom that a bear really had sex with that lawyer's mom."
 
2013-04-26 04:45:33 PM  

firefly212: I criticize them for not being more price sensitive. The reality is that 35 bucks for one season of one show is an unrealistic market price... if they set it at 10 or 15 bucks, they'd have far more takers.  Just like with video gamers who pirate because shelling out 60 bucks for a game is unreasonable when the market is absolutely flooded with bad titles with massive bugs or playability issues... I fault the end users to some extent, but from the econ side of things where I live, I see this as a pretty easily fixable problems if people focused on market-based solutions instead of trying to get the government to do something unrealistic (stop piracy) so they can enhance information asymmetry about the quality of the product and charge above-market values.


Absolutely agreed.  Quit with the region segmentation, and charge a more rational a la carte price, and lots of the piraters would go legal.  There is such a thing as a reasonable price, and it doesn't need to be zero.

The music industry did eventually realize this - you sell by the song, and make the stuff easy to get at guaranteed quality from safe downloads.  They still have horrible problems with region segmentation, but at least on iTunes they're easy enough to circumvent.

Some of this really is about the "long tail" - the magic of the internet and digital media is that you CAN make money off of stuff that has a very small audience. But you have to give that audience a means to pay you for the stuff.

Meanwhile movies survive "unbundled."  In the modern world lots of people who don't bother owning a TV consider TV more akin to movies, you rent (on DVD even) the content you want. Even paying what would be feature film rates (say, $4 per hour) is cheaper than the crazy cable bundle charges if you're someone who doesn't watch much TV.  If you're going to watch hours a day, then sure, cable TV makes sense. But for one show? Not so much, so the buying by the season or episode makes sense.

If they want to charge a premium for the per-episode stuff so you don't have to wait until the end of the season, they'd still get takers. Everyone wants to whine about how supposedly no one talks TV around the water cooler at work anymore but in my experience they definitely do (or talk about it in forums online, maybe) and so people don't want to be left behind.  Adults with a decent income are probably willing to pay for that real-time experience.  It's STILL cheaper than cable TV, if you're just fans of a particular show.
 
2013-04-26 04:47:01 PM  

mongbiohazard: mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: mongbiohazard: Theaetetus: See that torrent screenshot showing his upload rate?

"But that's just a comic!"

Yes, this whole discussion assumes the comic reflects reality. I'm certainly not suggesting HBO should rush off and file suit.


See the screenshot of http://www.bigtimeawesometorrentbucket.com/ ? That's not a real site. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not documentaries.

See the screenshot of Transmission.app? That's a real app. The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not fake applications.


And where exactly do you see an app? All I see is a panel in a comic which looks like a screenshot of transmission.app.

I hit add comment before I had the chance to add, "The Oatmeal makes webcomics, not applications. They do make plenty of fake screenshots though. Bears are real things too, that doesn't mean when he drew a picture of one having sex with that lawyer's mom that a bear really had sex with that lawyer's mom."


With what I've read about that lawyer, we definitely can't rule it out.
 
2013-04-26 04:52:38 PM  

rugman11: The problem is that they can't change the model just for the illegal downloaders.  They have to change it for everybody.  And if they do that they risk losing some partners and customers.  I guarantee you that as soon as we reach the point where digital distribution becomes more profitable than the way it's being done now, HBO will jump.  But to claim that they're idiots who somehow don't understand how the world works and are leaving money on the table is just plain dumb.


Then they should shut up about how piracy is harming them so terribly, because it isn't.

They can't make both arguments at the same time.  They either keep the current model and suck it up about the piracy, or they change their model, get a large chunk of the pirates paying, and possibly lose some other revenues.  THAT is the market situation they're in, now that broadband internet is a reality.  The ideal world of "we keep the current model but there's no piracy either" isn't a choice anymore.
 
2013-04-26 04:54:13 PM  

Nytfall: if you have an android device, get goldworm remote. keyboard and mouse remote control.


Apple Iphone throughout the household. But thanks anyway.


Really was hoping this would turn into a bunch of geeks arguing over the best way to solve my problem....

not so much
 
2013-04-26 04:59:30 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Apple Iphone throughout the household. But thanks anyway.


Really was hoping this would turn into a bunch of geeks arguing over the best way to solve my problem....

not so much


I occasionally watch movies on the big TV by just hooking my iPad up to the TV, you can get a cable to connect your iDevice to HDMI.  Then just fire up Netflix or AVPlayer or whatever else you use, and it will show on the TV.

Granted, I am not picky when it comes to super high def or whatever it is, so it's possible that's not okay for you, dunno.  If you download the HD movies though it looks pretty good to my eye?

Then your remote is right there by the TV, it's just your iPad/phone/whatever. At the end of the cable.
 
2013-04-26 04:59:48 PM  

rugman11: But to claim that they're idiots


I claimed they're idiots?

where?
 
2013-04-26 05:04:42 PM  

thisone: rugman11: But to claim that they're idiots

I claimed they're idiots?

where?


Your statement: "HBO/Sky could be doubling their money on us by letting us buy the season as it airs."

If that statement were actually true, they would be idiots.  You don't say they're idiots, but by claiming that they're needlessly leaving revenue on the table, you're implying that they're idiots.
 
2013-04-26 05:06:38 PM  

rugman11: thisone: rugman11: But to claim that they're idiots

I claimed they're idiots?

where?

Your statement: "HBO/Sky could be doubling their money on us by letting us buy the season as it airs."

If that statement were actually true, they would be idiots.  You don't say they're idiots, but by claiming that they're needlessly leaving revenue on the table, you're implying that they're idiots.


That's you claiming that they're idiots.  Not him.
 
2013-04-26 05:17:43 PM  

itazurakko: rugman11: The problem is that they can't change the model just for the illegal downloaders.  They have to change it for everybody.  And if they do that they risk losing some partners and customers.  I guarantee you that as soon as we reach the point where digital distribution becomes more profitable than the way it's being done now, HBO will jump.  But to claim that they're idiots who somehow don't understand how the world works and are leaving money on the table is just plain dumb.

Then they should shut up about how piracy is harming them so terribly, because it isn't.

They can't make both arguments at the same time.  They either keep the current model and suck it up about the piracy, or they change their model, get a large chunk of the pirates paying, and possibly lose some other revenues.  THAT is the market situation they're in, now that broadband internet is a reality.  The ideal world of "we keep the current model but there's no piracy either" isn't a choice anymore.


You're reversing the argument, though.  There's two separate issues at play here.  I was responding to the argument that HBO could be making more profit than they are now by offering their shows for legal download as they air.  My argument is that it's extremely likely that their maximum profit level is in the model they're in now.  That argument does not, however, say that HBO couldn't be making more revenue without illegal piracy.
 
2013-04-26 05:19:39 PM  
What did you expect from a penal colony?
 
2013-04-26 05:21:23 PM  

rugman11: That argument does not, however, say that HBO couldn't be making more revenue without illegal piracy.


Granted. But they can't have that world because technology has disrupted things.
 
2013-04-26 05:23:53 PM  

rugman11: You don't say they're idiots, but by claiming that they're needlessly leaving revenue on the table, you're implying that they're idiots.


nope.

I actually said that they were bound by distribution contracts. And that I believe those contracts do not take into account the existence of the Internet.

I actually believe that the people who are passing those contracts understand exactly what they are doing.

Seeing something that doesn't represent reality, ie the fact that the speed at which information travels has changed significantly since HBO was founded, and saying so, does not imply that people are "idiots"
 
2013-04-26 05:25:34 PM  
For the 3rd time in as many years comcast took away my ability to have access to basic news and public broadcasting because I refuse to pay them to advertise to me. Fark them and all corporate media. One can no longer buy an operating system, game, music, movie or any farking entertainmant with out a temporary rental agreement that expires? I can no longer own what I purchase? Fark them and the horse they rode in on. I will continue to watch GOT commercial free, guilt free,, and just plain free, along with anything else I can get my my righteous hands on. Let's see you package that comcast. I just spent like a hundred bucks on games I can't even play because of all the second party crap that refuses to let me even install them. It's farkin free from here on out with a smile.
 
2013-04-26 05:27:55 PM  

thisone: rugman11: You don't say they're idiots, but by claiming that they're needlessly leaving revenue on the table, you're implying that they're idiots.

nope.

I actually said that they were bound by distribution contracts. And that I believe those contracts do not take into account the existence of the Internet.

I actually believe that the people who are passing those contracts understand exactly what they are doing.

Seeing something that doesn't represent reality, ie the fact that the speed at which information travels has changed significantly since HBO was founded, and saying so, does not imply that people are "idiots"


I guess I misinterpreted your post.  Sorry about that.
 
2013-04-26 05:28:47 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-04-26 05:34:43 PM  

thisone: I actually said that they were bound by distribution contracts. And that I believe those contracts do not take into account the existence of the Internet.

I actually believe that the people who are passing those contracts understand exactly what they are doing.


I imagine, somewhere in the bowels of HBO HQ, an entire room full of lawyers & accountants are furiously reviewing contract law & profit margin calculations while waiting for the exact moment the profits for distributing a la carte shows (like GoT) match or exceed the cost of staying bound to companies like Comcast & TimeWarner.

/reminds me a little of the THX 1138 ending
 
2013-04-26 05:37:00 PM  

I_C_Weener: Dude!  Spoilers!

Also, I view Australia kind of like he wildlings north of the wall...lawless.


Do they have a lot of plowable redheads in Ozzieland these days?
 
2013-04-26 05:39:22 PM  
Aussies to US Ambassador: fark you.
 
2013-04-26 05:41:48 PM  
I'll continue to pay the iron price thank you! Kidding I have HBO.
 
2013-04-26 06:11:18 PM  

StandsWithAFist: I imagine, somewhere in the bowels of HBO HQ, an entire room full of lawyers & accountants are furiously reviewing contract law & profit margin calculations while waiting for the exact moment the profits for distributing a la carte shows (like GoT) match or exceed the cost of staying bound to companies like Comcast & TimeWarner.


It is creepy that I imagined the same thing.
 
2013-04-26 07:28:20 PM  
People who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones.
 
2013-04-26 07:32:28 PM  

Precision Boobery: suziequzie: But... they bring snacks and beer... so that's cool, right?

Oh wow, so not only are they getting to watch it without paying for it, but you're profiting off of it!  I bet you rebroadcast games without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, too.


I don't watch baseball.  And I don't even have a tivo or dvr.
 
2013-04-26 07:36:18 PM  

Aarontology: I thought they pretty much banned the internet in Australia.


What a bunch of Nazis!
 
2013-04-26 07:38:40 PM  

MugzyBrown: Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.

The question is, if HBO made available an episode for download at full resolution for say $2 per episode, would most of the 'pirates' decide to pay for the product or would they still just want it for free?


If the quality was good and it didn't have asinine draconian DRM protections (you installed a new monitor, sorry, you must re-purchase this episode) then yes, I think a lot of us would pay for it.  Even at $3 an episode it would work out to a lot less than what cable companies expect us to pay to get HBO, which is ultimately the deciding factor.

Yes, a lot of pirates pirate things because they can, but just as many pirate TV shows because they don't watch that much TV.  Certainly they don't watch enough TV to justify paying nearly a hundred dollars a month just for maybe a dozen TV shows they actually follow.  For most of those folks, the internet has replaced TV as what they do to waste time.  Why pay for cable if it's just going to be turned off for 23 hours out of the average day?

You know what would increase the number of people who would pay for it?  Do like Steam does, and allow us to preload the episode encrypted onto our computers.  When its finally release time, each person has to download some trivial amount of data to complete the install and then let their computer decrypt it.  That way even people with crappy internet connections could obtain episodes in HD and enjoy them without a huge delay.  That would be worth some extra money right there.
 
2013-04-26 07:51:44 PM  

MugzyBrown: Endive Wombat: justtray: Maybe HBO should consider updating their distribution model and stop hiding behind copyright violations?

Novel thought, I know.

That's the thing that amazes me about TV Networks.  You've got a country full of people jumping up and down with fists full of cash, and yet, the US entertainment industry acts as if they are above needing their money and refuses to adapt with...quite frankly, the new generation that has grown up with the internet and instant gratification when it comes to entertainment.

The question is, if HBO made available an episode for download at full resolution for say $2 per episode, would most of the 'pirates' decide to pay for the product or would they still just want it for free?



They'll still want it for free. Just takes away the "I would totally pay for it if..." argument.
Just like when iTunes launched. Do you think that stopped illegal downloading of music?

For all the good it's done, the internet has birthed the "GIMMEGIMMEGIMMENOWNOWNOWNOW!!!!!!" generation. People feel entitled to entertainment.
 
2013-04-26 08:01:35 PM  
if they charge a premium for a la carte?

"wah they charge too much! unfair! I pirate them!"

you all can rationalize your theft all you want. you might even say you'd pay a $1 per hd episode a la carte while you torrent the stuff now. I'm saying the majority of you're full of it, and no better than the robber barons of the industry.
 
2013-04-26 08:05:15 PM  
I don't know about Australia, but here in New Zealand it is broadcast 6 hours after it screens in the US. Networks are getting more savvy about rapid distribution.

There's an argument that piracy is actually helping the series.
 
2013-04-26 08:19:02 PM  

stoli n coke: Just like when iTunes launched.


yeah, just like when iTunes launched, whereupon millions and millions of people started paying reasonable prices for music.
 
2013-04-26 08:21:20 PM  

Iplaybass: Aussies to US Ambassador: fark you.


This. I'm an Aussie, and I think it's kinda funny that he'd think any of us gives a rat's arse what the US Ambassador says.
 
2013-04-26 08:22:12 PM  
BTW, Australia has been getting ripped off especially hard by big American media companies for decades. So eat shiat.
 
2013-04-26 08:32:42 PM  

legion_of_doo: if they charge a premium for a la carte?

"wah they charge too much! unfair! I pirate them!"

you all can rationalize your theft all you want. you might even say you'd pay a $1 per hd episode a la carte while you torrent the stuff now. I'm saying the majority of you're full of it, and no better than the robber barons of the industry.


It's not theft if you've already paid for it ten times over.I've paid for movies, music, and games in up to 3 different formats now. When I throw my arms up and say fark you I won't keep paying for the same farking product I've already paid for 3 times I get locked out? That's why I take the new stuff like Thrones for free. Young people don't understand because they haven't been sold the same thing again and again.
 
2013-04-26 08:36:46 PM  

legion_of_doo: if they charge a premium for a la carte?

"wah they charge too much! unfair! I pirate them!"

you all can rationalize your theft all you want. you might even say you'd pay a $1 per hd episode a la carte while you torrent the stuff now. I'm saying the majority of you're full of it, and no better than the robber barons of the industry.


People said the same thing about music downloaders before Itunes came out.  But, Itunes has made millions off of downloaded music.

Why don't we try it out and see what happens before you start hurling silly hyperbolic insults?

Ooops, too late.
 
2013-04-26 08:43:01 PM  
 
2013-04-26 08:44:50 PM  
It's nice to see that people have grown out of the idiocy of equating illegal downloading with theft...oh, wait.

/Seriously people, if illegal downloading is theft, then every time you take a picture of anything you're guilty of stealing everything in the picture.
 
2013-04-26 08:52:35 PM  

ha-ha-guy: GoT is the first show in awhile I've had to pirate.  Almost everything else is up in iTunes, Play, or Amazon within 24 hours of its air date.  Eventually I'll go back and buy the show off iTunes or perhaps physical DVDs, but I figure I'll let the digital media sales flag for a bit to voice my displeasure with HBO's model.

/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free


takes a week sometimes 2-3 for a new ep of any show to be included on itunes canada
And not every show is available
 
2013-04-26 08:55:59 PM  

rugman11: Teufelaffe: rugman11: But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States

Actually the article doesn't say that.  It says that Australians only have to wait a few hours to access the episodes by "legitimate means", but it fails to specify what those means are.  If they're the same as they are in the US, i.e., you have to have a subscription to HBO, they're facing the same situation that people in the US are facing who want to watch it, but don't have HBO.

You're right.  I misread the article, apparently HBO is a cable channel in Australia


Yes - you have to install and then subscribe to Foxtel cable. and then pay a month extra charge to get their premium channel "showtime" which has HBO. According to wiki Foxtel is available to about 70% of Australian homes. But it is on itunes also.
 
2013-04-26 08:57:34 PM  

thisispete: I don't know about Australia, but here in New Zealand it is broadcast 6 hours after it screens in the US. Networks are getting more savvy about rapid distribution.

There's an argument that piracy is actually helping the series.


I have no doubt that piracy has helped the show.  Piracy will help pretty much any show.  The question is how much it hurts the network.  HBO is in an interesting position in that there revenue is based almost entirely on reputation, so if the show is talked about a lot, it gives them a boost (assuming people still subscribe because of that reputation).  For ad-supported networks, though, it's a huge issue, because lower ratings lead to lower ad rates and lower revenue.  Even DVR'ing is better than torrenting.
 
2013-04-26 09:03:02 PM  
ha-ha-guy:
/also moving back into piracy for FX shows now that they embed ads at the beginning and end of them
//if I'm paying you money to buy it, I expect it come ad free


Definitely want the one I pay money for to be the superior product (meaning ad free) otherwise where's the incentive?  Paying for the product should mean being able to avoid the ads. Greedy company is getting paid twice, once by me and once again by the advertisers. Screw that.
 
2013-04-26 09:03:17 PM  

rugman11: The problem with that is their contracts with the cable companies. Putting the episodes online would cost them subscribers and would really piss off the cable companies (who obviously make more money from HBO subscribers than HBO does). And HBO isn't in a position where they can survive without the cable companies yet.


I think Game of Thrones may be what lets them survive on their own.  Game of Thrones is the capper on a long list of incredibly successful, highly watched programs.  True Blood, The Newsroom, Boardwalk Empire... these programs are huge profit makers already, but GoT is insanely more so than the others, and it looks to be getting only more profitable as seasons continue.  HBO could easily leverage that into changing how their business model works.
 
2013-04-26 09:03:19 PM  

spamdog: stoli n coke: Just like when iTunes launched.

yeah, just like when iTunes launched, whereupon millions and millions of people started paying reasonable prices for music.


Well how's that for timing?

"Believe it or not, Apple's iTunes Music Store turns 10 this weekend. Although iTunes has in many ways been a godsend to fans of digital music, it has been a source of endless frustration for the music industry."
 
2013-04-26 09:08:09 PM  

bukijin: rugman11: Teufelaffe: rugman11: But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States

Actually the article doesn't say that.  It says that Australians only have to wait a few hours to access the episodes by "legitimate means", but it fails to specify what those means are.  If they're the same as they are in the US, i.e., you have to have a subscription to HBO, they're facing the same situation that people in the US are facing who want to watch it, but don't have HBO.

You're right.  I misread the article, apparently HBO is a cable channel in Australia

Yes - you have to install and then subscribe to Foxtel cable. and then pay a month extra charge to get their premium channel "showtime" which has HBO. According to wiki Foxtel is available to about 70% of Australian homes. But it is on itunes also.


Is it available on iTunes the same time it's available on HBO?  If so, I hate them damn Aussies.
 
2013-04-26 09:13:49 PM  

rugman11: Well how's that for timing?

The reality is if singles were as available a decade ago as they are now, they would have been just as popular. Music nerds notwithstanding, the average music listener has really only cared about a few tracks off an album at most.


Which is exactly the complaint here. People don't want to pay $25 a month for one show. It's a ripoff.
 
2013-04-26 09:15:56 PM  

rugman11: spamdog: stoli n coke: Just like when iTunes launched.

yeah, just like when iTunes launched, whereupon millions and millions of people started paying reasonable prices for music.

Well how's that for timing?

"Believe it or not, Apple's iTunes Music Store turns 10 this weekend. Although iTunes has in many ways been a godsend to fans of digital music, it has been a source of endless frustration for the music industry."


Yet the music industry still survives, even if is is whining incessantly. There are still as many bands/singers as ever, and even though I don't personally much like the modern stuff, that is probably because I am old, and I suspect the quality is probably the same, or at least the same as it would have been had there been no digital revolution.

Progress can't be stopped, the genie is out of the bottle. People understand how to download stuff for free. If you want them to pay for it, find ways of enticing them into doing so, rather than standing around crying like a child with complaints that the other kids wont play by the rules you made up.
 
2013-04-26 09:19:20 PM  

spamdog: rugman11: Well how's that for timing?
The reality is if singles were as available a decade ago as they are now, they would have been just as popular. Music nerds notwithstanding, the average music listener has really only cared about a few tracks off an album at most.

Which is exactly the complaint here. People don't want to pay $25 a month for one show. It's a ripoff.


Most people aren't interested in just one show.  But the broader point is that the music industry viewed piracy is a grave threat (and it was far graver to music than to television) and, in their haste to capitulate, ended up cratering their industry.  Television is desperate to avoid the same thing (as well they should be because they couldn't survive as a fractured industry).
 
2013-04-26 09:30:47 PM  

spamdog: rugman11: Well how's that for timing?
The reality is if singles were as available a decade ago as they are now, they would have been just as popular. Music nerds notwithstanding, the average music listener has really only cared about a few tracks off an album at most.

Which is exactly the complaint here. People don't want to pay $25 a month for one show. It's a ripoff.


It's like going to the car dealership asking to buy the Mazda, only you can't because it comes in a package where you have to buy a Ford, Hyundai, VW and a Toyota as well, and you only have enough money for the one car you actually want, not five. Or, in order to buy a banana at the supermarket, you have to buy some brown rice, ice-cream, white rice, breakfast cereal, basmati rice, laundry detergent, milk, flour, chilli sauce,  and three bags of onions in order to get the banana. Makes no sense from the consumer's point of view.
 
2013-04-26 09:32:01 PM  

Teufelaffe: bukijin: rugman11: Teufelaffe: rugman11: But in this particular case, as the article noted, Game of Thrones is available for legal download in Australia on the same day it airs in the United States

Actually the article doesn't say that.  It says that Australians only have to wait a few hours to access the episodes by "legitimate means", but it fails to specify what those means are.  If they're the same as they are in the US, i.e., you have to have a subscription to HBO, they're facing the same situation that people in the US are facing who want to watch it, but don't have HBO.

You're right.  I misread the article, apparently HBO is a cable channel in Australia

Yes - you have to install and then subscribe to Foxtel cable. and then pay a month extra charge to get their premium channel "showtime" which has HBO. According to wiki Foxtel is available to about 70% of Australian homes. But it is on itunes also.

Is it available on iTunes the same time it's available on HBO?  If so, I hate them damn Aussies.


Don't know myself because would never buy or install an apple product let alone walk into one of their cultish stores. But according to the comments here "2 days after the US and 1 day after foxtel".

Oh I forgot to say that I really want to watch GoT at the movies. How awesome would a 10 series marathon be (perhaps spread over a weekend) ? Everyone would dress up and socialize during the breaks. It would be epic and I would pay real money for that.

Perhaps the correct model is the early part of the 20th century. Studios only received income from people actually going to the movies. And musicians made money by playing live.
 
2013-04-26 09:39:41 PM  

Nidiot: spamdog: rugman11: Well how's that for timing?
The reality is if singles were as available a decade ago as they are now, they would have been just as popular. Music nerds notwithstanding, the average music listener has really only cared about a few tracks off an album at most.

Which is exactly the complaint here. People don't want to pay $25 a month for one show. It's a ripoff.

It's like going to the car dealership asking to buy the Mazda, only you can't because it comes in a package where you have to buy a Ford, Hyundai, VW and a Toyota as well, and you only have enough money for the one car you actually want, not five. Or, in order to buy a banana at the supermarket, you have to buy some brown rice, ice-cream, white rice, breakfast cereal, basmati rice, laundry detergent, milk, flour, chilli sauce,  and three bags of onions in order to get the banana. Makes no sense from the consumer's point of view.


You're missing, though, that bundling also lowers the price.  So while some people only want a banana, others also want the rice, ice cream, cereal, milk, flour, and onions.  Sure, they might not need the detergent or chili sauce, but the bundled price for all those products together is less than price for buying each separately (and is probably less than the price of any three or four of those items together.  So for a lot of people, the bundle is a great value even if they end up with a lot of things they don't need.
 
2013-04-26 09:40:16 PM  

rugman11: But the broader point is that the music industry viewed piracy is a grave threat (and it was far graver to music than to television) and, in their haste to capitulate, ended up cratering their industry.  Television is desperate to avoid the same thing (as well they should be because they couldn't survive as a fractured industry).


The music industry still exists, if they are not making money at the ridiculous rates they used to, too bad. I'm afraid that is just life, things change. There is no constitutional right to making the same profit margins as you used to have. We still have as much music as ever, the consumers are happier, I don't see the problem.

Whether the television industry survives is up to them, we'll wait and see. As with any evolution, you can either adapt or die.
 
2013-04-26 09:44:46 PM  

rugman11: You're missing, though, that bundling also lowers the price.


Horse cock.
 
2013-04-26 09:45:01 PM  

Nidiot: Yet the music industry still survives, even if is is whining incessantly. There are still as many bands/singers as ever, and even though I don't personally much like the modern stuff, that is probably because I am old, and I suspect the quality is probably the same, or at least the same as it would have been had there been no digital revolution.


In metal that's certainly true.  I've been streaming KNAC.com on my commute and there's a lot of new/recent stuff that's just as good as "the good ol' days".
 
2013-04-26 09:51:55 PM  

rugman11: Nidiot: spamdog: rugman11: Well how's that for timing?
The reality is if singles were as available a decade ago as they are now, they would have been just as popular. Music nerds notwithstanding, the average music listener has really only cared about a few tracks off an album at most.

Which is exactly the complaint here. People don't want to pay $25 a month for one show. It's a ripoff.

It's like going to the car dealership asking to buy the Mazda, only you can't because it comes in a package where you have to buy a Ford, Hyundai, VW and a Toyota as well, and you only have enough money for the one car you actually want, not five. Or, in order to buy a banana at the supermarket, you have to buy some brown rice, ice-cream, white rice, breakfast cereal, basmati rice, laundry detergent, milk, flour, chilli sauce,  and three bags of onions in order to get the banana. Makes no sense from the consumer's point of view.

You're missing, though, that bundling also lowers the price.  So while some people only want a banana, others also want the rice, ice cream, cereal, milk, flour, and onions.  Sure, they might not need the detergent or chili sauce, but the bundled price for all those products together is less than price for buying each separately (and is probably less than the price of any three or four of those items together.  So for a lot of people, the bundle is a great value even if they end up with a lot of things they don't need.


Then stop getting pissed that when those 'some people' who want only the banana go download the banana. If you can't cater to the demand, someone else will. If those 'some people' aren't enough for you to cater to when it comes to adjusting how you sell your product, be willing to let them go elsewhere. Wringing your hands together and pointing out what a "great deal" it is they have on offer to them, even though they have already decided it isn't a great deal to them, or what they want, seems totally useless.
 
2013-04-26 09:53:32 PM  

Nidiot: rugman11: But the broader point is that the music industry viewed piracy is a grave threat (and it was far graver to music than to television) and, in their haste to capitulate, ended up cratering their industry.  Television is desperate to avoid the same thing (as well they should be because they couldn't survive as a fractured industry).

The music industry still exists, if they are not making money at the ridiculous rates they used to, too bad. I'm afraid that is just life, things change. There is no constitutional right to making the same profit margins as you used to have. We still have as much music as ever, the consumers are happier, I don't see the problem.

Whether the television industry survives is up to them, we'll wait and see. As with any evolution, you can either adapt or die.


Except that the only reason they're having to adapt is because other people are engaging in illegal behavior.  You don't think that, as a society, we have a responsibility to protect people and companies from the illegal actions of others?

And the music analogy isn't entirely apt because music, even today, is cheap to produce and distribute.  Television is the complete opposite.  Game of Thrones is a $60-70 million/yr production.  Do you think that ever gets off the ground if the producers had to sell the show individually, unbundled from a network?  Not a chance.
 
2013-04-26 10:02:15 PM  

rugman11: Except that the only reason they're having to adapt is because other people are engaging in illegal behavior.


Good.
 
2013-04-26 10:04:28 PM  

I created this alt just for this thread: Seriously people, if illegal downloading is theft, then every time you take a picture of anything you're guilty of stealing everything in the picture.


I do it for thrills.

/I am a rebel, and I'll never be any good.
 
2013-04-26 10:11:32 PM  

Nidiot: Then stop getting pissed that when those 'some people' who want only the banana go download the banana. If you can't cater to the demand, someone else will. If those 'some people' aren't enough for you to cater to when it comes to adjusting how you sell your product, be willing to let them go elsewhere. Wringing your hands together and pointing out what a "great deal" it is they have on offer to them, even though they have already decided it isn't a great deal to them, or what they want, seems totally useless.


Except that the "elsewhere" is an illegal reseller.  If somebody takes your shiat, your gut reaction is to want to stop them from taking your shiat, especially when they're likely distributing it to others as well.  If somebody's bootleg editions of Harry Potter, should JK Rowling just let it go?

I don't know that I'm being entirely clear.  I don't think television producers are really "wringing [their] hands" over piracy.  It happens and it's pretty much impossible to stop.  That doesn't mean, however, that they can cater to the pirates nor does it mean they shouldn't try to stop them.  And it doesn't mean that downloaders (of which I am one) are justified.  Pretty much every show is available for a reasonable price at some point.  And I don't even necessarily have a problem with people who download while it airs and buy the DVD or downloads when they're available.  I just don't like people who argue that the entire business should be changed because some people want the product at a lower price (and can get it for free illegally).  Most people benefit from the current model.  It's just that in the last ten years, the people who don't benefit have been able to get the product outside of the model through illegal means.  And many of them now think that the model should change to fit their wants.
 
2013-04-26 10:23:15 PM  
No. Their model is from an analog past and should change because the technology has changed.

It's up to them really. Get nothing from people copying their work or get something. Or stop using digital media....
 
2013-04-26 10:26:46 PM  

ontariolightning: takes a week sometimes 2-3 for a new ep of any show to be included on itunes canada
And not every show is available


If you really want it fast, just download it from iTunes US.  There's no need to limit yourself to one store.

Granted, you'll need to buy iTunes US gift cards on the internet, but there's a market for it.

rugman11: "Believe it or not, Apple's iTunes Music Store turns 10 this weekend. Although iTunes has in many ways been a godsend to fans of digital music, it has been a source of endless frustration for the music industry."


It's called a market correction.  Forcing people to buy 7 songs they don't care for in order to get the one hit single they want is not a valid business model in 2013. The music industry is just going to have to deal with that.

Plenty of us only ever bought cassette singles (for that same $0.99) before iTunes, anyway.
 
2013-04-26 10:29:04 PM  

bukijin: Oh I forgot to say that I really want to watch GoT at the movies. How awesome would a 10 series marathon be (perhaps spread over a weekend) ? Everyone would dress up and socialize during the breaks. It would be epic and I would pay real money for that.


That would actually be a cool thing, for a bunch of series.
 
2013-04-26 10:41:13 PM  
It's a question of ethics. Can't get it in a format that you are happy with? Then don't watch it. Your life won't be diminished. Think you have the "right" to pirate it? Examine your own sense of entitlement.
 
2013-04-26 10:41:18 PM  

rugman11: You're missing, though, that bundling also lowers the price.  So while some people only want a banana, others also want the rice, ice cream, cereal, milk, flour, and onions.  Sure, they might not need the detergent or chili sauce, but the bundled price for all those products together is less than price for buying each separately (and is probably less than the price of any three or four of those items together.  So for a lot of people, the bundle is a great value even if they end up with a lot of things they don't need.


Indeed.  So if you're smart, you offer BOTH SERVICES. You can buy single shows for X price, and you can buy unlimited watching for Y price a month.  If you watch a lot, Y is the better deal, if you only want a few, X is a better deal. Let the customer choose.

NHK does this, incidentally.  I can buy a show for JPY 210 to watch for three days, or I can have some unlimited for JPY 945 a month.   I watch the occasional documentary, so mostly pay by the show, but lately I'm watching more and so tempted to maybe go for that JPY 945. Now that I have actual good fiber internet so the streaming works, it might be worth it. The package would get me all news shows too, which is of interest (right now I only have those via radio).

The remaining peeve is that to use either option, I need to use a (paid) VPN to pretend I'm still in Japan.  I understand the desire to charge, because I don't pay TV tax (since I live abroad in the US) but it'd be convenient if they just surcharged those of us in exotic locales. Still, point being, the choice is there, and depending on my habits, I choose which package I want.

Speaking of bizarre copyright though... NHK has broadcast the news on shortwave forever, it's how we used to listen to it.  Then the internet came along, and they started streaming news.  At some point they switched to podcast (i.e. mp3s you could just right-click-download), but due to some bizarre restrictions, they would put up all the international language news that way, but Japanese language (the original, which is what we want) was restricted to streaming only.

So, we had to fire up a client and record to mp3 before putting it on the iPod, but it didn't stop anything, only made another hoop to jump through.  Finally they saw the light and now normal Japanese language news is also available as mp3. Saves some time in the morning.

As it is though they can't stream music, only the talk.  So if there's a song, you get dead air.  Unless you listen via shortwave... (or use a VPN of course, then you can use the iPod client and hear everything live)

/still, looking at the big picture I can't really complain
//as a kid, you lived in one country, you could NOT get media from the other without crazy $$$ and maybe shortwave...
 
2013-04-26 11:21:53 PM  
I would be perfectly happy to buy each season on DVD, and will do so when they price it like other comparable DVD sets (around $20 per season). Instead, now they have a stranglehold on the price (currently $40+) and used copies are not to be found. Fark you, HOBO.
 
2013-04-26 11:39:24 PM  

Vector R: I would be perfectly happy to buy each season on DVD, and will do so when they price it like other comparable DVD sets (around $20 per season). Instead, now they have a stranglehold on the price (currently $40+) and used copies are not to be found. Fark you, HOBO.


Not to mention the fact that Season 1 is now "out of print" making it nearly impossible to find.
 
kab
2013-04-26 11:40:00 PM  

ZeroCorpse: That's really good news, as long as they keep the price reasonable.


Because this will certainly urge all the folks getting their shows for nothing to suddenly start paying.

*chuckle*
 
2013-04-27 12:18:37 AM  

itazurakko: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Apple Iphone throughout the household. But thanks anyway.


Really was hoping this would turn into a bunch of geeks arguing over the best way to solve my problem....

not so much

I occasionally watch movies on the big TV by just hooking my iPad up to the TV, you can get a cable to connect your iDevice to HDMI.  Then just fire up Netflix or AVPlayer or whatever else you use, and it will show on the TV.

Granted, I am not picky when it comes to super high def or whatever it is, so it's possible that's not okay for you, dunno.  If you download the HD movies though it looks pretty good to my eye?

Then your remote is right there by the TV, it's just your iPad/phone/whatever. At the end of the cable.


you could by a western digital media box, it'll stream hulu, netflix, and youtube on your tv.
 
2013-04-27 12:32:45 AM  

Teufelaffe: Not to mention the fact that Season 1 is now "out of print" making it nearly impossible to find.


"Out of print" is another whole pail of BS.  I'll just say I do not feel guilty or have any regrets at all for finally deciding to take a library book down to Kinko's and copy it cover to cover and have it bound, even, because I was referring to it enough and could not find any copies anywhere for sale.  One of the books I did that to, eventually I did run across a used copy, and bought it.  Hopefully some of the "print on demand" schemes the booksellers come up with can solve that problem. Again, it's the long tail - the book in question I was the only person to check it out in 20 years.

There are other reference books which I own in print, recommend people to buy, but I have downloaded pirated pdfs to my phone because if I'm out and about and wanting to give page citations to someone when answering a question (it's a grammar nerd thing) I can just look on my phone, rather than "I'll reply again when I get home..." I figure if I bought the thing legally, I'm not going to feel bad about also grabbing more convenient formats.

On the other hand, other reference books (which I also owned) went full bore into the digital age and made apps of themselves, not gonna deny that was part of what had me get a smartphone to start with, so it all evens out somewhere.
 
2013-04-27 12:41:21 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


And yes there are differences between the English and the American books. They spell "color" wrong!


Not necessarily an option: US and UK are, I think, different DVD regions, and most DVD players are region locked because PIRACY.
 
2013-04-27 12:42:26 AM  

Felgraf: The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


And yes there are differences between the English and the American books. They spell "color" wrong!

Not necessarily an option: US and UK are, I think, different DVD regions, and most DVD players are region locked because PIRACY.


Which is another reason to upgrade to Bluray...no region coding.
 
2013-04-27 12:57:45 AM  

Teufelaffe: Felgraf: The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


And yes there are differences between the English and the American books. They spell "color" wrong!

Not necessarily an option: US and UK are, I think, different DVD regions, and most DVD players are region locked because PIRACY.

Which is another reason to upgrade to Bluray...no region coding.


Bluray is region coded - split into 3 regions in fact:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
 
2013-04-27 01:07:58 AM  
I refuse to watch HBO (unless its a DVD of one of it's original programs checked out from the local library) or give them any money by subscribing because I HATE their CEO. He's a complete idiot when it comes to business..get this: he believes that when the economy gets better, people will return to cable from streaming services, so he has pretty much said nothing from HBO will EVER be available on Netflix.
 
2013-04-27 01:27:01 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Nytfall: if you have an android device, get goldworm remote. keyboard and mouse remote control.

Apple Iphone throughout the household. But thanks anyway.


Really was hoping this would turn into a bunch of geeks arguing over the best way to solve my problem....

not so much


Try either teamviewer or remotejr.  Remotejr will cost between 2 and 8 bucks, tho.
 
2013-04-27 01:28:35 AM  

Nytfall: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Nytfall: if you have an android device, get goldworm remote. keyboard and mouse remote control.

Apple Iphone throughout the household. But thanks anyway.


Really was hoping this would turn into a bunch of geeks arguing over the best way to solve my problem....

not so much

Try either teamviewer or remotejr.  Remotejr will cost between 2 and 8 bucks, tho.


or maybe just a bluetooth mouse
 
2013-04-27 01:53:11 AM  

Fury Pilot: Teufelaffe: Felgraf: The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


And yes there are differences between the English and the American books. They spell "color" wrong!

Not necessarily an option: US and UK are, I think, different DVD regions, and most DVD players are region locked because PIRACY.

Which is another reason to upgrade to Bluray...no region coding.

Bluray is region coded - split into 3 regions in fact:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc


They may have the ability to region code BR discs, but I have yet to encounter one that actually was.  Half my Blu-rays are from the UK (amazon.co.uk frequently has wicked good sales on BR movies) and they all play just fine on my player and BDR drive.  And no, these aren't US releases that happened to be purchased from the UK.  For example, my Harry Potter set has the original title for the first film: Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone (why they felt it necessary to change that for the US, both book and movie, I have no idea).
 
2013-04-27 02:12:26 AM  
rugman11:
Except that the only reason they're having to adapt is because other people are engaging in illegal behavior.  You don't think that, as a society, we have a responsibility to protect people and companies from the illegal actions of others?

If the companies are being dicks, then, no. How many companies given the choice between ethics and profits have ever chosen ethics? Yes I am going to lower myself to their level.


And the music analogy isn't entirely apt because music, even today, is cheap to produce and distribute.  Television is the complete opposite.  Game of Thrones is a $60-70 million/yr production.  Do you think that ever gets off the ground if the producers had to sell the show individually, unbundled from a network?  Not a chance.


...and movies cost how much to produce? I'm still not required to go see fifteen films to get to see the one I wanted to see in the first place. I suspect the 'we couldn't afford to make the thing you want to see if you don't buy all the stuff we make that you don't want to see' is a big fat lie by the company that just wants to keep rolling around in the huge amounts on money it earns.

Same as the music industry, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, but in the end the industry itself will survive.
 
2013-04-27 02:19:24 AM  

Teufelaffe: Fury Pilot: Teufelaffe: Felgraf: The Stealth Hippopotamus: My wife and I are huge Terry Pratchett fans. Every time Sir Terry produces a Discworld novel we buy it off the Amazon.UK site so that we can get the English edition. Can you just do the same for content from American? Doesn't Target ship anywhere in the world?


And yes there are differences between the English and the American books. They spell "color" wrong!

Not necessarily an option: US and UK are, I think, different DVD regions, and most DVD players are region locked because PIRACY.

Which is another reason to upgrade to Bluray...no region coding.

Bluray is region coded - split into 3 regions in fact:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

They may have the ability to region code BR discs, but I have yet to encounter one that actually was.  Half my Blu-rays are from the UK (amazon.co.uk frequently has wicked good sales on BR movies) and they all play just fine on my player and BDR drive.  And no, these aren't US releases that happened to be purchased from the UK.  For example, my Harry Potter set has the original title for the first film: Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone (why they felt it necessary to change that for the US, both book and movie, I have no idea).


I suspect it is probably mostly used to cover for distributors and disparate release dates.

Why would I wait six months to buy from an Australian distributor if I could get the same thing cheaper and earlier from the US - because I can't guarantee that it will be usable in my blu-ray drive.

As for Harry Potter, the name change was supposedly because the US distributors where concerned that kids wouldn't know what philosopher meant.  <= Note: possible urban legend :)
 
2013-04-27 05:23:08 AM  
If I want to watch something, I'll find a free download for it, but if I have to pay for it, I'll go without. It's not a case of if I can't get it for free then I'll resign myself to having to pay for it, because I simply do not to care that much. Companies like HBO wont get my money either way, so biatching about people like me downloading is kinda pointless. I was not about to put a dollar into their coffers regardless.
 
2013-04-27 06:13:08 AM  

rugman11: Do you think that ever gets off the ground if the producers had to sell the show individually, unbundled from a network? Not a chance.


Thing is HBO Is producing the show. It's not a case of producers going to a network to get a show made. As a production company HBO could produce a show and sell it to another network if they so chose.
 
2013-04-27 08:46:48 AM  

spiderpaz: Well then stop charging and arm and a leg for cable packages.


Kingslayer has just the basic package so they only took a hand.
 
2013-04-27 09:40:46 AM  

Teiritzamna: ha-ha-guy: Now you're just playing the idiot. Most people with an IQ above a radish can read the implied context of "had to pirate due to lack of availability via digital distribution channels, unlike the vast majority of other current shows". If you can't, I feel sorry for you.

Translation: i have decided that i want a thing but i do not like the price point/distribution model that it is offered for.  Thus instead of doing without - which heaven forfend i could not possibly do for some reason -  I shall obtain it without paying.  I shall also indicate that this decision to obtain something that i wanted in an extra legal fashion was somehow someone else's fault.  Because damn it i have a right to watch that show the way i want to - its in the constitution or somethin'.


Goddamnit; It's Heaven-Forbid. HEAVEN FORBID YOU STUPID DOG-HUMPER!!! You're as bad as someone who pronounces pecan as pee-kan.
 
2013-04-27 10:29:55 AM  

Teufelaffe: Vector R: I would be perfectly happy to buy each season on DVD, and will do so when they price it like other comparable DVD sets (around $20 per season). Instead, now they have a stranglehold on the price (currently $40+) and used copies are not to be found. Fark you, HOBO.

Not to mention the fact that Season 1 is now "out of print" making it nearly impossible to find.


Que?  Amazon has the first season on both DVD and Blu-Ray.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&fiel d- keywords=Game%20of%20Thrones%20Season%201
 
2013-04-27 10:31:43 AM  
i.dailymail.co.uk

Doesn't have much derring-do to it, sport, but whatever tickles yer fancy....
 
2013-04-27 11:16:26 AM  

pute kisses like a man: People_are_Idiots: pute kisses like a man: wasn't there a rumor not too long ago that HBO was considering to allow HBO GO to be available to non-HBO subscribers?

Why would I wanna watch Boxing? Or Bill Maher?

i don't have HBO Go, or HBO, or TV service.  but, when I set up my Roku, HBO GO was advertised to me.  I clicked on it and it said, watch all the latest shows on demand, including game of thrones.  perhaps that was a liar that people on the inside make to people on the outside, but it certainly ruffled my feathers.


Actually more of a joke. Like MTV to music, HBO used to be "all movies, all the time." Then someone took over, and then slowly it shifted to specials, tv shows that shouldn't be aired on normal tv, and boxing, boxing, boxing. "Home Box Office" became known as "Home Boxing Office" because of its insistance to have boxing on at the most inconvenient times... It was the same time Cinemax became known as "Skin-a-max."
 
2013-04-27 11:42:11 AM  

rugman11: Teufelaffe: Vector R: I would be perfectly happy to buy each season on DVD, and will do so when they price it like other comparable DVD sets (around $20 per season). Instead, now they have a stranglehold on the price (currently $40+) and used copies are not to be found. Fark you, HOBO.

Not to mention the fact that Season 1 is now "out of print" making it nearly impossible to find.

Que?  Amazon has the first season on both DVD and Blu-Ray.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&fiel d- keywords=Game%20of%20Thrones%20Season%201


OK, that's farking bizarre.  I looked it up before I posted and both the DVD and Blu-Ray were listed as "Discontinued" and were only available from "these other sellers."
 
2013-04-27 03:04:18 PM  

People_are_Idiots: HBO used to be "all movies, all the time." Then someone took over, and then slowly it shifted to specials, tv shows that shouldn't be aired on normal tv, and boxing, boxing, boxing. "


HBO has broadcast both sports and movies from day one:

The first program and film broadcast on HBO, Sometimes a Great Notion (1971), starred Paul Newman and Henry Fonda and was transmitted to 325 customers at a Cable television (CATV) system in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania (Wilkes-Barre's downtown Public Square features a plaque commemorating this event). HBO broadcast its first sports-event immediately afterwards: an NHL hockey game from Madison Square Garden featuring the New York Rangers and the Vancouver Canucks.

Wikipedia
 
2013-04-27 03:26:18 PM  

Heron: Goddamnit; It's Heaven-Forbid. HEAVEN FORBID YOU STUPID DOG-HUMPER!!!


the fact that you have a lackluster vocabulary and thus are shocked and surprised at an old and venerable turn of phrase is not my problem

Heron: You're as bad as someone who pronounces pecan as pee-kan.

You take that back, you ass gargling sperm-turtle

/god i hope we are joking here
 
2013-04-27 04:43:25 PM  

Teufelaffe: rugman11: Teufelaffe: Vector R: I would be perfectly happy to buy each season on DVD, and will do so when they price it like other comparable DVD sets (around $20 per season). Instead, now they have a stranglehold on the price (currently $40+) and used copies are not to be found. Fark you, HOBO.

Not to mention the fact that Season 1 is now "out of print" making it nearly impossible to find.

Que?  Amazon has the first season on both DVD and Blu-Ray.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&fiel d- keywords=Game%20of%20Thrones%20Season%201

OK, that's farking bizarre.  I looked it up before I posted and both the DVD and Blu-Ray were listed as "Discontinued" and were only available from "these other sellers."



It was out of print for a little while, but that was last year. HBO recalled all the first season sets because of a commentary track where David Benioff mentioned a prop head of George W. Bush being used as one of the heads on pikes (He said they were in Eastern Europe and didn't have enough prop heads for the scene, so they scrounged other sets, and the only other head they could find was a Bush head.) They put a wig on it and put dirt and soot on the face. Nobody would have noticed if he hadn't said anything, but when it got out, political pundits went mental.

So, HBO recalled it, the scene was altered, and they re-released it.
 
2013-04-27 08:52:19 PM  

Teiritzamna: Heron: Goddamnit; It's Heaven-Forbid. HEAVEN FORBID YOU STUPID DOG-HUMPER!!!

the fact that you have a lackluster vocabulary and thus are shocked and surprised at an old and venerable turn of phrase is not my problem

Heron: You're as bad as someone who pronounces pecan as pee-kan.

You take that back, you ass gargling sperm-turtle

/god i hope we are joking here


If it's not pee-kan, how do you pronounce it? Peck-ann? That would sound silly.

/Aussie
//pronounces it pee-kan
 
2013-04-27 09:25:49 PM  

Nidiot: Teiritzamna: Heron: Goddamnit; It's Heaven-Forbid. HEAVEN FORBID YOU STUPID DOG-HUMPER!!!

the fact that you have a lackluster vocabulary and thus are shocked and surprised at an old and venerable turn of phrase is not my problem

Heron: You're as bad as someone who pronounces pecan as pee-kan.

You take that back, you ass gargling sperm-turtle

/god i hope we are joking here

If it's not pee-kan, how do you pronounce it? Peck-ann? That would sound silly.

/Aussie
//pronounces it pee-kan


Picon is how most people I know pronounce it.
 
2013-04-28 12:05:34 AM  

The Dynamite Monkey: People_are_Idiots: HBO used to be "all movies, all the time." Then someone took over, and then slowly it shifted to specials, tv shows that shouldn't be aired on normal tv, and boxing, boxing, boxing. "

HBO has broadcast both sports and movies from day one:

The first program and film broadcast on HBO, Sometimes a Great Notion (1971), starred Paul Newman and Henry Fonda and was transmitted to 325 customers at a Cable television (CATV) system in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania (Wilkes-Barre's downtown Public Square features a plaque commemorating this event). HBO broadcast its first sports-event immediately afterwards: an NHL hockey game from Madison Square Garden featuring the New York Rangers and the Vancouver Canucks.

Wikipedia

I didn't say they didn't at the beginning. I'm saying it used to be 9/10 of their shows were movies, hence the name "Home Box Office." That would imply that they show movies and specialty events, maybe filler "Making of" shows. This is why Starz did good (until they started doing the same thing), and Encore is still cool.
 
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