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(AP)   California bill would let non-citizens serve on juries   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 23
    More: Stupid, jury  
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959 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Apr 2013 at 6:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-26 12:27:46 AM
5 votes:

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.
2013-04-26 08:05:53 AM
2 votes:

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


I fail to see why the cultural background of immigrants is different that the cultural background of a natural born citizen. For example:

A Southern Christian sitting on a case about an abortion clinic malpractice.
A Californian hippy dude on a case about a home grown marijuana plant.
A KKK member on a case about racial discrimination.
A software engineer on a case about software patent infringement.

Remember, on a jury trail, the lawyers get to grill the jury members and have to generally agree on each member to serve their case. If there's a jury member on a case that is seemingly at odds with their cultural background, then there's a lawyer not doing their job very well.
2013-04-26 07:42:52 AM
2 votes:

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


How would that be different if that hypothetical Saudi man was a naturalized citizen?
2013-04-26 02:03:26 PM
1 votes:

skozlaw: nocturnal001: make a mistake

Yea. You "mistakenly" assumed they were illegals because you only skimmed the article that included no such phrasing but managed to miss the first sentence that said exactly the opposite.

Yea.... a totally honest and reasonable "mistake"...

nocturnal001: [stuff meant to sound compelling]

So, basically, you choose to be ignorant despite your own experience?

I don't really know what right or left has to do with this, though. The fundamental problem isn't your politics, it's that you decided to make a fundamentally wrong assumption based on personal bias despite the first farking line of the damn article saying exactly the opposite of what you wanted to believe and then got pissy with OTHER people when you got called on it.

As for "generalizing" about you flyovers, I'll stop doing it when you stop proving so consistently that the generalities are generally correct.


I would like to present this post to the Fark review board as the definition of "irony".

You have a guy here who is screaming about "those" awful people who make "assumptions" based on their "bias" instead of looking at the facts and making an informed decision.  After making those statements he proceeds to do the exact same thing that he just whined about other people doing.

Then, when his blanket attacks are shown to be demonstrably wrong, proceeds to backpeddle and try to make some other broad point.  So, tell me Mr. PA. Have you ever been to the mid-west? Have you even left PA at some point?  Your ignorance about such a large region composed of a huge variety of cultures/states/cities is very telling.

And no you stupid fark, I didn't "get pissy with OTHER people when they called me out on it", I got pissy when that dickhead called me retarded for misreading non-citizen and assuming "illegal" as that is what 95% of all of any discussions about "non-citizens" is really about.

Whine whine, obviously if anyone disagrees with me they are some sort of xenophobe or racist, I can't argue like a big boy so I resort to name calling. Pathetic.  So go on, continue to think that I have some sort of nefarious anti-illegal agenda if that makes you feel better.
2013-04-26 11:00:12 AM
1 votes:

skozlaw: TrollingForColumbine: could only be misinterpreted by the willfully ignorant or troll

He lives in the midwest. He lacks experience with foreigners so in his tiny little world "non-citizen" probably does reliably equate to "illegal alien" most of the time.

It really reminds me how amazing it is when flyover people act all shocked and annoyed that left and right coasters so often view them as ignorant, cornfed hicks, though. I routinely work with people on H1-B, B, and F visas so at any given time odds are pretty good I'm in direct contact with at least one or two people who are in the country legally but are not citizens. Yet, because he lacks this experience, he forms his opinion based on ignorance and feels compelled to expound upon it from this position of ignorance.

Basically, because he lacks information, he feels justified in making wild, untrue assumptions, forming a foolish opinion based on those assumptions and then gets defensive when called on it like he's not the one saying stupid things.


LOL, that really made my morning.  You don't know jack fark about me, or my politics.

First of all, you are a dick for generalizing an entire region of the United States.  Second, I work with a shiat ton of people on work visas, most of them from India or the Philipines, part of the job when you work in IT consulting.  Lastly, I'm actually from the coast, grew up in MD and lived in DC for the rest of the time.  Now, I know that can't compete with the metropolitian mecca that is PA, but it's something.

I would like to thank you though for reminding me that it's not only right wingers who are douchebags, but also many of the left as well.  That's fun for me because the righties are pretty boring, but I do enjoy the slighlty larger challenge when I get to argue with other lefties
2013-04-26 10:53:56 AM
1 votes:

skozlaw: nocturnal001: Suck it. Reading non-citizen as "illegal" is a reasonable mistake.

No, it's not.

It's bad enough you just arbitrarily formed an opinion based on your personal bias, but you couldn't even be bothered to read one short farking sentence before blurting it out?

I'd like to invite you to "suck it". And not waste anybody else's time by sharing your ignorant thoughts on the matter again since you've rather decisively proven that they're "thoughts" in name only.


Jesus christ, people here can be such insufferable assholes.  God forbid anybody make a mistake when commenting on a news article.  Serious business!  I'm sure you have never ever done something like that.

What personal bias?  Methinks you are assuming much without any background information.
2013-04-26 10:17:05 AM
1 votes:

odinsposse: loser0: They're here to do the jobs you don't want to do!

/can't believe no one has brought this up yet

At 7.7% unemployment I highly doubt there are any jobs that nobody wants to do. There are just employers that would rather exploit slave labor than pay legal workers what they are worth.


And then be granted employer amnesty through immigration reform. So both guilty parties (excluding the consumers and investors who profit from illegal labor) get off free. What a farkin country. No wonder millions of people live here illegally. How they must laugh at us behind their closed doors.
2013-04-26 10:10:17 AM
1 votes:
Yes because once you enter illegally, you immediately start obeying all laws. Like reporting illegals to immigration. Oh wait...
2013-04-26 10:07:46 AM
1 votes:

propasaurus: ...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?


Pretty much this. Some of us have been in the US for decades. We simply don't want to become citizens as it leaves us in the position of being dual citizens that lose a lot of the protections of our home country or having to denounce our original birth location.
2013-04-26 08:51:08 AM
1 votes:
For what it's worth, I wouldn't expect any other nation's judicial system to allow me to serve as a juror in their country either, unless I was a citizen there.  I'm not French.  I'm not South African.  I'm not Brazilian.  What the fark would I know about the laws, customs, culture, standards of evidence, etc at play in a court trial in those countries?  The entire idea is asinine.
2013-04-26 08:34:03 AM
1 votes:
FTA: Assemblyman Bob Wieckowski, D-Fremont, said his bill, AB1401, would help California widen the pool of prospective jurors and help integrate immigrants into the community.

You want to help integrate immigrants into the community then encourage them to become citizens. You keep diluting what it means to be a citizen, why should people bother with the citizenship process?
2013-04-26 08:02:55 AM
1 votes:

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


I"m pretty sure it is. From what I understand, if you serve you can apply for citizenship after 3 yrs. I got married and was allowed to after 5. I haven't yet, but one day. Just need an extra $500 and I can get it.
2013-04-26 07:46:57 AM
1 votes:
My problem is that it establishes that Resident Aliens and Citizens are peers. They are not and should not be. Citizens can vote and run for office. They have some power over the laws they pass judgement upon as jurors.
2013-04-26 07:43:30 AM
1 votes:

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


would you feel better if he was a citizen with the same background. Becoming a citizen does not change your belief system.

/wife is naturalized citizen
2013-04-26 07:29:14 AM
1 votes:
Also, this law doesn't allow illegal immigrants to serve on juries. Only non-citizens who are in this country legally.
2013-04-26 07:26:56 AM
1 votes:
The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.
2013-04-26 06:50:10 AM
1 votes:

thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?


They probably pull from the DMV.
2013-04-26 06:29:38 AM
1 votes:

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


runningdownhill.files.wordpress.com
2013-04-26 04:08:48 AM
1 votes:

borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.


It must be very frustrating for you that not everybody leads their lives the way you assume they should
2013-04-26 12:44:18 AM
1 votes:
...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?
2013-04-26 12:33:54 AM
1 votes:
I'm a Californian. I don't biatch and moan when I get jury duty, but I don't look forward to it. The larger the pool of jurors, the less often I have to serve.

It works for me.
2013-04-26 12:21:00 AM
1 votes:
Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.
2013-04-26 12:08:01 AM
1 votes:
This could be good or end up really really bad.
 
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