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(AP)   California bill would let non-citizens serve on juries   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 86
    More: Stupid, jury  
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959 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Apr 2013 at 6:16 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



86 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-04-26 12:08:01 AM  
This could be good or end up really really bad.
 
2013-04-26 12:21:00 AM  
Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.
 
2013-04-26 12:27:46 AM  

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.
 
2013-04-26 12:33:54 AM  
I'm a Californian. I don't biatch and moan when I get jury duty, but I don't look forward to it. The larger the pool of jurors, the less often I have to serve.

It works for me.
 
2013-04-26 12:44:18 AM  
...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?
 
2013-04-26 01:02:39 AM  

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.
 
2013-04-26 03:42:10 AM  
That would suck, not having to serve on a jury is the only benefit I get from not becoming a citizen.

/Well, that and it costs a small fortune to become a citizen.
//When did INS become a for-profit group?
 
2013-04-26 04:08:48 AM  

borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.


It must be very frustrating for you that not everybody leads their lives the way you assume they should
 
2013-04-26 04:19:07 AM  

Tarkus: That would suck, not having to serve on a jury is the only benefit I get from not becoming a citizen.

/Well, that and it costs a small fortune to become a citizen.
//When did INS become a for-profit group?


$680 including the fingerprinting fee.
 
2013-04-26 06:15:09 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?
 
2013-04-26 06:20:55 AM  

Notabunny: borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.

It must be very frustrating for you that not everybody leads their lives the way you assume they should


Why didn't your friend just get his citizenship when he was in the service?
 
2013-04-26 06:29:38 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


runningdownhill.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-26 06:31:20 AM  
Why not, they already had a non-english speaker as governor

"Arnold Schwarzenegger being for English Only would be like lesbians against pussy" - George Lopez
 
2013-04-26 06:39:43 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


This.  It's far too arduous and expensive a process to become a citizen when people that serve in the military (and have to go through their checks) are not fasttracked to citizenship.
 
2013-04-26 06:40:36 AM  
Oh.  No.  What horror.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
2013-04-26 06:50:10 AM  

thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?


They probably pull from the DMV.
 
2013-04-26 06:54:05 AM  
BFD. It not as if we don't already skirt a few laws in this country for convenience.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

/Only more funny because   The Clinton campaign is circulating a 2006 photo of Barack Obama in Somali tribal clothes, playing to the "B. Hussein Obama is a secret Muslim"
 
2013-04-26 06:55:27 AM  

borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.



That would make him a perfect candidate for jury duty.
 
2013-04-26 06:59:16 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


Otherwise you are expecting someone to be willing to lay down their lives for a country that is just going to deport them when their hitch is up.
 
2013-04-26 07:15:28 AM  

Baryogenesis: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

They probably pull from the DMV.


Something something 40 Mexicans something pick up truck.

Oh, just make the joke yourself.
 
2013-04-26 07:16:21 AM  
I have two family members that served tours in Vietnam they weren't citizens but had LEGALLY immigrated to USA .

 Think maybe both were drafted and one uncle was married.
 Served and worked and had kids that also served and no one was deported !

.

flondrix: ArcadianRefugee: 

Otherwise you are expecting someone to be willing to lay down their lives for a country that is just going to deport them when their hitch is up.

 
2013-04-26 07:20:27 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
"And what does the jury find?"

"No, no. Not guilty, no. Hesa my cousin."
 
2013-04-26 07:26:56 AM  
The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.
 
2013-04-26 07:27:01 AM  
I wouldn't really mind handing that off. I'll never make it in to the box anyway, I get rejected as soon as the prosecutor gets to quiz prospects.
 
2013-04-26 07:29:14 AM  
Also, this law doesn't allow illegal immigrants to serve on juries. Only non-citizens who are in this country legally.
 
2013-04-26 07:42:52 AM  

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


How would that be different if that hypothetical Saudi man was a naturalized citizen?
 
2013-04-26 07:43:30 AM  

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


would you feel better if he was a citizen with the same background. Becoming a citizen does not change your belief system.

/wife is naturalized citizen
 
2013-04-26 07:44:24 AM  

propasaurus: cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.

How would that be different if that hypothetical Saudi man was a naturalized citizen?


//shakes tiny fist
 
2013-04-26 07:46:57 AM  
My problem is that it establishes that Resident Aliens and Citizens are peers. They are not and should not be. Citizens can vote and run for office. They have some power over the laws they pass judgement upon as jurors.
 
2013-04-26 07:52:28 AM  

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


I'm pretty sure you need at least a green card to serve.  And after your service you get your citizenship.

Unless things were way different back in the day.
 
2013-04-26 08:02:31 AM  
They're here to do the jobs you don't want to do!

/can't believe no one has brought this up yet
 
2013-04-26 08:02:55 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


I"m pretty sure it is. From what I understand, if you serve you can apply for citizenship after 3 yrs. I got married and was allowed to after 5. I haven't yet, but one day. Just need an extra $500 and I can get it.
 
2013-04-26 08:05:53 AM  

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


I fail to see why the cultural background of immigrants is different that the cultural background of a natural born citizen. For example:

A Southern Christian sitting on a case about an abortion clinic malpractice.
A Californian hippy dude on a case about a home grown marijuana plant.
A KKK member on a case about racial discrimination.
A software engineer on a case about software patent infringement.

Remember, on a jury trail, the lawyers get to grill the jury members and have to generally agree on each member to serve their case. If there's a jury member on a case that is seemingly at odds with their cultural background, then there's a lawyer not doing their job very well.
 
2013-04-26 08:24:04 AM  
Probably a good idea to make sure they at least speak English.
 
2013-04-26 08:24:17 AM  

thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?


Drivers license records are another common source.
 
2013-04-26 08:27:54 AM  
Nobody WANTS to serve on a jury. And I don't think there is any way to COMPEL a non-citizen to do so. So this will effect about five people. Maybe.
 
2013-04-26 08:34:03 AM  
FTA: Assemblyman Bob Wieckowski, D-Fremont, said his bill, AB1401, would help California widen the pool of prospective jurors and help integrate immigrants into the community.

You want to help integrate immigrants into the community then encourage them to become citizens. You keep diluting what it means to be a citizen, why should people bother with the citizenship process?
 
2013-04-26 08:38:56 AM  
I am ok with this if its limited to cases where the accused is not a citizen.

Then he/she always gets a "jury of his peers"
 
2013-04-26 08:48:17 AM  
What's the problem?

The problem is that someone who immigrated here a month ago and has little to no background on American laws, culture, or customs is hardly a "peer" of the defendant in any way.  I'd contend that a conviction by any such jury would be questionable.  You're talking about a panel of people that're asked to make decisions that have significant, often huge impacts on individuals' lives.  I think the least that could be asked is that they be fellow citizens of the person on trial.
 
2013-04-26 08:51:08 AM  
For what it's worth, I wouldn't expect any other nation's judicial system to allow me to serve as a juror in their country either, unless I was a citizen there.  I'm not French.  I'm not South African.  I'm not Brazilian.  What the fark would I know about the laws, customs, culture, standards of evidence, etc at play in a court trial in those countries?  The entire idea is asinine.
 
2013-04-26 08:51:56 AM  
At $11 a day the pay is about the same as they would get doing day-labor
 
2013-04-26 08:56:46 AM  
Strange.  What I usually hear is that real, hard working American don't have the time to be bothered with jury duty and only those too stupid to get our of it or the lazy and shiftless are the ones that think it is worth the time to serve.  So if you truly believe this, why not applaud this.  Just like the roofer and migrant ag labor, it sounds like another market for the underclass of people of the USA.  Just another job American won't do, am I right?
 
2013-04-26 09:01:26 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


Would you like to learn more?
 
2013-04-26 09:10:34 AM  

propasaurus: ...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?


They're likely to be brown.
 
2013-04-26 09:17:02 AM  
screw this. in France they appreciate me, in France they know I'm a genius.
 
2013-04-26 09:17:56 AM  

loser0: They're here to do the jobs you  blacks don't want to do!

/can't believe no one has brought this up yet


You know this is the real dog whistle.
 
2013-04-26 09:20:06 AM  

dartben: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

Drivers license records are another common source.


And property tax records.
 
2013-04-26 09:26:57 AM  

AbsentFriends: dartben: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

Drivers license records are another common source.

And property tax records.


California uses voter registries.
 
2013-04-26 09:43:34 AM  

bhcompy: AbsentFriends: dartben: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

Drivers license records are another common source.

And property tax records.

California uses voter registries.


are there a lot of resident aliens on voter register in CA? Are they allowed to vote in state and local elections? Are they allowed to hold office?

if they are then I don't have a problem with the law if it only  affects state courts.
 
2013-04-26 09:45:36 AM  
I can't see any good reason why this should happen.

Dealing with the reality by letting illegals get driver's licenses is one thing, but serving on a jury? Plus, aren't jury pools all tied to voter registration?
 
2013-04-26 09:52:08 AM  

badhatharry: Probably a good idea to make sure they at least speak English.


I see you read the article.
 
2013-04-26 09:53:00 AM  

nocturnal001: I can't see any good reason why this should happen.

Dealing with the reality by letting illegals get driver's licenses is one thing, but serving on a jury? Plus, aren't jury pools all tied to voter registration?


article says legal aliens
postertard
 
2013-04-26 09:53:48 AM  
I don't know much about California voir dire, but I would hope that this would at least be a cause for dismissing a potential juror. Not saying that they shouldn't serve, but their "peerness" should be sbjetive for each case.
 
2013-04-26 09:55:31 AM  

propasaurus: ...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?


And we are done here.
 
2013-04-26 09:56:06 AM  

heinekenftw: They're likely to be brown.


So are the defendants.
 
2013-04-26 09:58:37 AM  

Tarkus: That would suck, not having to serve on a jury is the only benefit I get from not becoming a citizen.

/Well, that and it costs a small fortune to become a citizen.
//When did INS become a for-profit group?


When they became ICE?
 
2013-04-26 10:00:03 AM  

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


We have ignorant citizens all over this land. If I were a Black dude in the South on trial for killing a white man, I sure as hell wouldn't want the average white person on my jury.
 
2013-04-26 10:07:36 AM  

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


Do you know why things like this are referred to as 'anecdotal evidence' instead of simply 'evidence'?

/do try to suss it out for yourself.
 
2013-04-26 10:07:45 AM  

nocturnal001: I can't see any good reason why this should happen.

Dealing with the reality by letting illegals get driver's licenses is one thing, but serving on a jury? Plus, aren't jury pools all tied to voter registration?


You missed the part where the immigrants can be non citizens but  have to be legal
 
2013-04-26 10:07:46 AM  

propasaurus: ...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?


Pretty much this. Some of us have been in the US for decades. We simply don't want to become citizens as it leaves us in the position of being dual citizens that lose a lot of the protections of our home country or having to denounce our original birth location.
 
2013-04-26 10:10:07 AM  

TrollingForColumbine: nocturnal001: I can't see any good reason why this should happen.

Dealing with the reality by letting illegals get driver's licenses is one thing, but serving on a jury? Plus, aren't jury pools all tied to voter registration?

article says legal aliens
postertard


Suck it. Reading non-citizen as "illegal" is a reasonable mistake.

Legal aliens serving on a jury? Still a stupid idea. The right to a trial by a jury of your peers is for US citizens, not non citizens.
 
2013-04-26 10:10:17 AM  
Yes because once you enter illegally, you immediately start obeying all laws. Like reporting illegals to immigration. Oh wait...
 
2013-04-26 10:13:46 AM  

loser0: They're here to do the jobs you don't want to do!

/can't believe no one has brought this up yet


At 7.7% unemployment I highly doubt there are any jobs that nobody wants to do. There are just employers that would rather exploit slave labor than pay legal workers what they are worth.
 
2013-04-26 10:14:20 AM  

nocturnal001: The right to a trial by a jury of your peers is for US citizens, not non citizens.


What if the person on trial is non-citizen? That happens a lot of CA.
 
2013-04-26 10:17:05 AM  

odinsposse: loser0: They're here to do the jobs you don't want to do!

/can't believe no one has brought this up yet

At 7.7% unemployment I highly doubt there are any jobs that nobody wants to do. There are just employers that would rather exploit slave labor than pay legal workers what they are worth.


And then be granted employer amnesty through immigration reform. So both guilty parties (excluding the consumers and investors who profit from illegal labor) get off free. What a farkin country. No wonder millions of people live here illegally. How they must laugh at us behind their closed doors.
 
2013-04-26 10:20:46 AM  

thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?


In Chicago, they use the Driver's License pool.
 
2013-04-26 10:22:51 AM  

nocturnal001: TrollingForColumbine: nocturnal001: I can't see any good reason why this should happen.

Dealing with the reality by letting illegals get driver's licenses is one thing, but serving on a jury? Plus, aren't jury pools all tied to voter registration?

article says legal aliens
postertard

Suck it. Reading non-citizen as "illegal" is a reasonable mistake.

Legal aliens serving on a jury? Still a stupid idea. The right to a trial by a jury of your peers is for US citizens, not non citizens.


Swallow it
"non-citizens who are in the country legally "
could only be misinterpreted by the willfully ignorant or troll
 
2013-04-26 10:41:24 AM  

nocturnal001: Suck it. Reading non-citizen as "illegal" is a reasonable mistake.


No, it's not.

It's bad enough you just arbitrarily formed an opinion based on your personal bias, but you couldn't even be bothered to read one short farking sentence before blurting it out?

I'd like to invite you to "suck it". And not waste anybody else's time by sharing your ignorant thoughts on the matter again since you've rather decisively proven that they're "thoughts" in name only.
 
2013-04-26 10:47:34 AM  

Krieghund: I'm a Californian. I don't biatch and moan when I get jury duty, but I don't look forward to it. The larger the pool of jurors, the less often I have to serve.

It works for me.


este^
 
2013-04-26 10:50:01 AM  

TrollingForColumbine: nocturnal001: TrollingForColumbine: nocturnal001: I can't see any good reason why this should happen.

Dealing with the reality by letting illegals get driver's licenses is one thing, but serving on a jury? Plus, aren't jury pools all tied to voter registration?

article says legal aliens
postertard

Suck it. Reading non-citizen as "illegal" is a reasonable mistake.

Legal aliens serving on a jury? Still a stupid idea. The right to a trial by a jury of your peers is for US citizens, not non citizens.

Swallow it
"non-citizens who are in the country legally "
could only be misinterpreted by the willfully ignorant or troll


Or you know, a normal person that just glanced through the article without picking it apart (truly history's greatest monster). But yeah, go with your drivel instead.

Isn't it a little early in the morning to be so angry?

'http://www.fark.com/comments/7719110/83853506#c83853506">DrewCurt isJr: nocturnal001: The right to a trial by a jury of your peers is for US citizens, not non citizens.

What if the person on trial is non-citizen? That happens a lot of CA.


I thought about that case, which lends some support to this idea I think.

So, our concept of a jury of your peers, intended to avoid bias against the defendent, which I assume was put into place in opposition to the English system where the Judge decides guilt.  Is there more to an effective jury than just beeing peers of the defendent? Wouldn't we also want the jury members to be familiar with the laws and customs of the nation?

Take this extreme case.  A non-citizen muslim is on trial for beating his wife, illegal in the US but not illegal in his home country.  Now, of course we could also wind up with a jury member who happens to see no issue with this crime, but would stocking the jury with this person's peers make sense here? In this case his peers would be other non-citizen muslims who may agree with him despite the law.  (sorry to pick on muslims but it's an easy example)

Of course the same could happen if we were only talking about citizens, but the pool of citizens is likely to have a greater mixture of people than a jury of "non citizens".

I'm not sure if I'm solid on this issue one way or another now that I've broken it down.  This is a tough one.
 
2013-04-26 10:51:46 AM  

TrollingForColumbine: could only be misinterpreted by the willfully ignorant or troll


He lives in the midwest. He lacks experience with foreigners so in his tiny little world "non-citizen" probably does reliably equate to "illegal alien" most of the time.

It really reminds me how amazing it is when flyover people act all shocked and annoyed that left and right coasters so often view them as ignorant, cornfed hicks, though. I routinely work with people on H1-B, B, and F visas so at any given time odds are pretty good I'm in direct contact with at least one or two people who are in the country legally but are not citizens. Yet, because he lacks this experience, he forms his opinion based on ignorance and feels compelled to expound upon it from this position of ignorance.

Basically, because he lacks information, he feels justified in making wild, untrue assumptions, forming a foolish opinion based on those assumptions and then gets defensive when called on it like he's not the one saying stupid things.
 
2013-04-26 10:53:56 AM  

skozlaw: nocturnal001: Suck it. Reading non-citizen as "illegal" is a reasonable mistake.

No, it's not.

It's bad enough you just arbitrarily formed an opinion based on your personal bias, but you couldn't even be bothered to read one short farking sentence before blurting it out?

I'd like to invite you to "suck it". And not waste anybody else's time by sharing your ignorant thoughts on the matter again since you've rather decisively proven that they're "thoughts" in name only.


Jesus christ, people here can be such insufferable assholes.  God forbid anybody make a mistake when commenting on a news article.  Serious business!  I'm sure you have never ever done something like that.

What personal bias?  Methinks you are assuming much without any background information.
 
2013-04-26 11:00:12 AM  

skozlaw: TrollingForColumbine: could only be misinterpreted by the willfully ignorant or troll

He lives in the midwest. He lacks experience with foreigners so in his tiny little world "non-citizen" probably does reliably equate to "illegal alien" most of the time.

It really reminds me how amazing it is when flyover people act all shocked and annoyed that left and right coasters so often view them as ignorant, cornfed hicks, though. I routinely work with people on H1-B, B, and F visas so at any given time odds are pretty good I'm in direct contact with at least one or two people who are in the country legally but are not citizens. Yet, because he lacks this experience, he forms his opinion based on ignorance and feels compelled to expound upon it from this position of ignorance.

Basically, because he lacks information, he feels justified in making wild, untrue assumptions, forming a foolish opinion based on those assumptions and then gets defensive when called on it like he's not the one saying stupid things.


LOL, that really made my morning.  You don't know jack fark about me, or my politics.

First of all, you are a dick for generalizing an entire region of the United States.  Second, I work with a shiat ton of people on work visas, most of them from India or the Philipines, part of the job when you work in IT consulting.  Lastly, I'm actually from the coast, grew up in MD and lived in DC for the rest of the time.  Now, I know that can't compete with the metropolitian mecca that is PA, but it's something.

I would like to thank you though for reminding me that it's not only right wingers who are douchebags, but also many of the left as well.  That's fun for me because the righties are pretty boring, but I do enjoy the slighlty larger challenge when I get to argue with other lefties
 
2013-04-26 11:01:00 AM  

nocturnal001: What personal bias? Methinks you are assuming much without any background information.


Insert Welcome to Fark jpeg
 
2013-04-26 11:08:55 AM  

Frank N Stein: Notabunny: borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.

It must be very frustrating for you that not everybody leads their lives the way you assume they should

Why didn't your friend just get his citizenship when he was in the service?


Y'know, I never asked. None of my business. His dad worked here in the Bracero program and has been here ever since. He never became a citizen, either. Same kind of guy, too. Owned his own business, a taylor shop, owned his home, put his kids through college, an outstanding cook. He grew cactus in his back yard and introduced me to nopales y chorizo, chile rellenos en caldo con nopales, papas y rajas, and chicken mole. I remember skipping dinner so I'd be hungry when I went to his house for breakfast!
 
2013-04-26 12:12:38 PM  
Finally!  A jury of my peers.  We Americans who are about to die salute you globalists!

www.teddunlap.net
 
2013-04-26 01:13:59 PM  

nocturnal001: make a mistake


Yea. You "mistakenly" assumed they were illegals because you only skimmed the article that included no such phrasing but managed to miss the first sentence that said exactly the opposite.

Yea.... a totally honest and reasonable "mistake"...

nocturnal001: [stuff meant to sound compelling]


So, basically, you choose to be ignorant despite your own experience?

I don't really know what right or left has to do with this, though. The fundamental problem isn't your politics, it's that you decided to make a fundamentally wrong assumption based on personal bias despite the first farking line of the damn article saying exactly the opposite of what you wanted to believe and then got pissy with OTHER people when you got called on it.

As for "generalizing" about you flyovers, I'll stop doing it when you stop proving so consistently that the generalities are generally correct.
 
2013-04-26 02:03:26 PM  

skozlaw: nocturnal001: make a mistake

Yea. You "mistakenly" assumed they were illegals because you only skimmed the article that included no such phrasing but managed to miss the first sentence that said exactly the opposite.

Yea.... a totally honest and reasonable "mistake"...

nocturnal001: [stuff meant to sound compelling]

So, basically, you choose to be ignorant despite your own experience?

I don't really know what right or left has to do with this, though. The fundamental problem isn't your politics, it's that you decided to make a fundamentally wrong assumption based on personal bias despite the first farking line of the damn article saying exactly the opposite of what you wanted to believe and then got pissy with OTHER people when you got called on it.

As for "generalizing" about you flyovers, I'll stop doing it when you stop proving so consistently that the generalities are generally correct.


I would like to present this post to the Fark review board as the definition of "irony".

You have a guy here who is screaming about "those" awful people who make "assumptions" based on their "bias" instead of looking at the facts and making an informed decision.  After making those statements he proceeds to do the exact same thing that he just whined about other people doing.

Then, when his blanket attacks are shown to be demonstrably wrong, proceeds to backpeddle and try to make some other broad point.  So, tell me Mr. PA. Have you ever been to the mid-west? Have you even left PA at some point?  Your ignorance about such a large region composed of a huge variety of cultures/states/cities is very telling.

And no you stupid fark, I didn't "get pissy with OTHER people when they called me out on it", I got pissy when that dickhead called me retarded for misreading non-citizen and assuming "illegal" as that is what 95% of all of any discussions about "non-citizens" is really about.

Whine whine, obviously if anyone disagrees with me they are some sort of xenophobe or racist, I can't argue like a big boy so I resort to name calling. Pathetic.  So go on, continue to think that I have some sort of nefarious anti-illegal agenda if that makes you feel better.
 
2013-04-26 04:25:56 PM  

nocturnal001: I got pissy when that dickhead called me retarded


farking retard can't take a joke

you'll get over it

cry more
 
2013-04-26 04:55:42 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: nocturnal001: I got pissy when that dickhead called me retarded

farking retard can't take a joke

you'll get over it

cry more


Yawn, so now it was just a joke?  Ahh, the favorite retreat of a coward when called out on something "but but it was just a joke I swear".

Do people still use "cry more" as an insult?
 
2013-04-26 05:46:03 PM  

GregInIndy: What's the problem?

The problem is that someone who immigrated here a month ago and has little to no background on American laws, culture, or customs is hardly a "peer" of the defendant in any way.  I'd contend that a conviction by any such jury would be questionable.  You're talking about a panel of people that're asked to make decisions that have significant, often huge impacts on individuals' lives.  I think the least that could be asked is that they be fellow citizens of the person on trial.


I'm pretty sure that people without preconceptions about the law are exactly what the justice system desires. Culture and customs  are not supposed to enter into jury verdicts.

A truly impartial jury would be selected from another planet.
 
2013-04-26 06:41:57 PM  

jso2897: Nobody WANTS to serve on a jury. And I don't think there is any way to COMPEL a non-citizen to do so. So this will effect about five people. Maybe.


Speak for yourself. I'm almost 30, born in the US, and have never been called for jury duty...but I wish they would call...
 
2013-04-26 07:07:30 PM  

Fromageball: jso2897: Nobody WANTS to serve on a jury. And I don't think there is any way to COMPEL a non-citizen to do so. So this will effect about five people. Maybe.

Speak for yourself. I'm almost 30, born in the US, and have never been called for jury duty...but I wish they would call...


You can volunteer for jury duty,  just call your counties superior court jury service and ask to be put on the list they'll be happy to hear from you.

/My wife just got out of jury duty this week because she's not a US citizen.
 
2013-04-26 09:08:13 PM  

borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.


This
 
2013-04-27 12:27:15 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.

This


That ↓

Notabunny: borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.

It must be very frustrating for you that not everybody leads their lives the way you assume they should

 
2013-04-27 12:26:19 PM  

jso2897: Nobody WANTS to serve on a jury. And I don't think there is any way to COMPEL a non-citizen to do so. So this will effect about five people. Maybe.


Fines, prison, etc? You know, the same as US citizens. And do you think someone wants "ignored jury summons" to be on their file the next time they talk to INS about renewing or changing their status? They likely have more incentive than US citizens to serve.


I don't get people's issues at this.
Most citizens don't want to serve on juries and would benefit from widening the pool. Most immigrants will know as much about the law as some random guy off the street. It doesn't remove incentive to become a citizen by making it less special, it shifts a burden to non-citizens, decreasing the penalties for becoming a citizen. It actually makes citizenship better in comparison to green card.
There is a rigorous jury selection process already in place that would almost certainly get rid of anyone just off the boat or with other issues in respect to the case.
I can see restricting it from visa holders, but there is certainly no reason to eliminate green card holders.
 
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