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(AP)   California bill would let non-citizens serve on juries   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 86
    More: Stupid, jury  
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956 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Apr 2013 at 6:16 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-26 12:08:01 AM
This could be good or end up really really bad.
 
2013-04-26 12:21:00 AM
Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.
 
2013-04-26 12:27:46 AM

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.
 
2013-04-26 12:33:54 AM
I'm a Californian. I don't biatch and moan when I get jury duty, but I don't look forward to it. The larger the pool of jurors, the less often I have to serve.

It works for me.
 
2013-04-26 12:44:18 AM
...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?
 
2013-04-26 01:02:39 AM

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.
 
2013-04-26 03:42:10 AM
That would suck, not having to serve on a jury is the only benefit I get from not becoming a citizen.

/Well, that and it costs a small fortune to become a citizen.
//When did INS become a for-profit group?
 
2013-04-26 04:08:48 AM

borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.


It must be very frustrating for you that not everybody leads their lives the way you assume they should
 
2013-04-26 04:19:07 AM

Tarkus: That would suck, not having to serve on a jury is the only benefit I get from not becoming a citizen.

/Well, that and it costs a small fortune to become a citizen.
//When did INS become a for-profit group?


$680 including the fingerprinting fee.
 
2013-04-26 06:15:09 AM

ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?
 
2013-04-26 06:20:55 AM

Notabunny: borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.

It must be very frustrating for you that not everybody leads their lives the way you assume they should


Why didn't your friend just get his citizenship when he was in the service?
 
2013-04-26 06:29:38 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


runningdownhill.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-26 06:31:20 AM
Why not, they already had a non-english speaker as governor

"Arnold Schwarzenegger being for English Only would be like lesbians against pussy" - George Lopez
 
2013-04-26 06:39:43 AM

ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


This.  It's far too arduous and expensive a process to become a citizen when people that serve in the military (and have to go through their checks) are not fasttracked to citizenship.
 
2013-04-26 06:40:36 AM
Oh.  No.  What horror.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
2013-04-26 06:50:10 AM

thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?


They probably pull from the DMV.
 
2013-04-26 06:54:05 AM
BFD. It not as if we don't already skirt a few laws in this country for convenience.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

/Only more funny because   The Clinton campaign is circulating a 2006 photo of Barack Obama in Somali tribal clothes, playing to the "B. Hussein Obama is a secret Muslim"
 
2013-04-26 06:55:27 AM

borg: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

I think you're lying because he would have taken care of it in 1986 either that or he's really stupid.



That would make him a perfect candidate for jury duty.
 
2013-04-26 06:59:16 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


Otherwise you are expecting someone to be willing to lay down their lives for a country that is just going to deport them when their hitch is up.
 
2013-04-26 07:15:28 AM

Baryogenesis: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

They probably pull from the DMV.


Something something 40 Mexicans something pick up truck.

Oh, just make the joke yourself.
 
2013-04-26 07:16:21 AM
I have two family members that served tours in Vietnam they weren't citizens but had LEGALLY immigrated to USA .

 Think maybe both were drafted and one uncle was married.
 Served and worked and had kids that also served and no one was deported !

.

flondrix: ArcadianRefugee: 

Otherwise you are expecting someone to be willing to lay down their lives for a country that is just going to deport them when their hitch is up.

 
2013-04-26 07:20:27 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
"And what does the jury find?"

"No, no. Not guilty, no. Hesa my cousin."
 
2013-04-26 07:26:56 AM
The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.
 
2013-04-26 07:27:01 AM
I wouldn't really mind handing that off. I'll never make it in to the box anyway, I get rejected as soon as the prosecutor gets to quiz prospects.
 
2013-04-26 07:29:14 AM
Also, this law doesn't allow illegal immigrants to serve on juries. Only non-citizens who are in this country legally.
 
2013-04-26 07:42:52 AM

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


How would that be different if that hypothetical Saudi man was a naturalized citizen?
 
2013-04-26 07:43:30 AM

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


would you feel better if he was a citizen with the same background. Becoming a citizen does not change your belief system.

/wife is naturalized citizen
 
2013-04-26 07:44:24 AM

propasaurus: cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.

How would that be different if that hypothetical Saudi man was a naturalized citizen?


//shakes tiny fist
 
2013-04-26 07:46:57 AM
My problem is that it establishes that Resident Aliens and Citizens are peers. They are not and should not be. Citizens can vote and run for office. They have some power over the laws they pass judgement upon as jurors.
 
2013-04-26 07:52:28 AM

Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.


I'm pretty sure you need at least a green card to serve.  And after your service you get your citizenship.

Unless things were way different back in the day.
 
2013-04-26 08:02:31 AM
They're here to do the jobs you don't want to do!

/can't believe no one has brought this up yet
 
2013-04-26 08:02:55 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


I"m pretty sure it is. From what I understand, if you serve you can apply for citizenship after 3 yrs. I got married and was allowed to after 5. I haven't yet, but one day. Just need an extra $500 and I can get it.
 
2013-04-26 08:05:53 AM

cman: The only slight concern I have is with the cultural background of these immigrants.

What we see as justice and morality is probably not the same as a lot of countries in the world.

For example: having a Saudi Arabian man sitting on a case about gender discrimination probably isnt the best idea.


I fail to see why the cultural background of immigrants is different that the cultural background of a natural born citizen. For example:

A Southern Christian sitting on a case about an abortion clinic malpractice.
A Californian hippy dude on a case about a home grown marijuana plant.
A KKK member on a case about racial discrimination.
A software engineer on a case about software patent infringement.

Remember, on a jury trail, the lawyers get to grill the jury members and have to generally agree on each member to serve their case. If there's a jury member on a case that is seemingly at odds with their cultural background, then there's a lawyer not doing their job very well.
 
2013-04-26 08:24:04 AM
Probably a good idea to make sure they at least speak English.
 
2013-04-26 08:24:17 AM

thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?


Drivers license records are another common source.
 
2013-04-26 08:27:54 AM
Nobody WANTS to serve on a jury. And I don't think there is any way to COMPEL a non-citizen to do so. So this will effect about five people. Maybe.
 
2013-04-26 08:34:03 AM
FTA: Assemblyman Bob Wieckowski, D-Fremont, said his bill, AB1401, would help California widen the pool of prospective jurors and help integrate immigrants into the community.

You want to help integrate immigrants into the community then encourage them to become citizens. You keep diluting what it means to be a citizen, why should people bother with the citizenship process?
 
2013-04-26 08:38:56 AM
I am ok with this if its limited to cases where the accused is not a citizen.

Then he/she always gets a "jury of his peers"
 
2013-04-26 08:48:17 AM
What's the problem?

The problem is that someone who immigrated here a month ago and has little to no background on American laws, culture, or customs is hardly a "peer" of the defendant in any way.  I'd contend that a conviction by any such jury would be questionable.  You're talking about a panel of people that're asked to make decisions that have significant, often huge impacts on individuals' lives.  I think the least that could be asked is that they be fellow citizens of the person on trial.
 
2013-04-26 08:51:08 AM
For what it's worth, I wouldn't expect any other nation's judicial system to allow me to serve as a juror in their country either, unless I was a citizen there.  I'm not French.  I'm not South African.  I'm not Brazilian.  What the fark would I know about the laws, customs, culture, standards of evidence, etc at play in a court trial in those countries?  The entire idea is asinine.
 
2013-04-26 08:51:56 AM
At $11 a day the pay is about the same as they would get doing day-labor
 
2013-04-26 08:56:46 AM
Strange.  What I usually hear is that real, hard working American don't have the time to be bothered with jury duty and only those too stupid to get our of it or the lazy and shiftless are the ones that think it is worth the time to serve.  So if you truly believe this, why not applaud this.  Just like the roofer and migrant ag labor, it sounds like another market for the underclass of people of the USA.  Just another job American won't do, am I right?
 
2013-04-26 09:01:26 AM

ArcadianRefugee: Notabunny: Meh. One of my friends is an illegal immigrant. He's 50yo, and he was brought here by his parents when he was 3. He served in the Army, he has his own business, he owns two houses, and he put his kids through college. I think the US could survive his serving on a jury.

In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.


Would you like to learn more?
 
2013-04-26 09:10:34 AM

propasaurus: ...allow non-citizens who are in the country legally to serve on jury duty... It does not change other criteria for being eligible to serve on a jury, such as being at least 18, living in the county that is making the summons, and being proficient in English... they noted that there is no citizenship requirement to be an attorney or a judge.

What's the problem?


They're likely to be brown.
 
2013-04-26 09:17:02 AM
screw this. in France they appreciate me, in France they know I'm a genius.
 
2013-04-26 09:17:56 AM

loser0: They're here to do the jobs you  blacks don't want to do!

/can't believe no one has brought this up yet


You know this is the real dog whistle.
 
2013-04-26 09:20:06 AM

dartben: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

Drivers license records are another common source.


And property tax records.
 
2013-04-26 09:26:57 AM

AbsentFriends: dartben: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

Drivers license records are another common source.

And property tax records.


California uses voter registries.
 
2013-04-26 09:43:34 AM

bhcompy: AbsentFriends: dartben: thisispete: ArcadianRefugee: In my book, serving this country in such a way should be a fast track to citizenship.

Would you like to know more?

I thought jury pools were selected at random from voter registers. Does California use some other source?

Drivers license records are another common source.

And property tax records.

California uses voter registries.


are there a lot of resident aliens on voter register in CA? Are they allowed to vote in state and local elections? Are they allowed to hold office?

if they are then I don't have a problem with the law if it only  affects state courts.
 
2013-04-26 09:45:36 AM
I can't see any good reason why this should happen.

Dealing with the reality by letting illegals get driver's licenses is one thing, but serving on a jury? Plus, aren't jury pools all tied to voter registration?
 
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