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(Snopes)   South Carolina church tells pupils the Earth is only thousands of years old, dinosaurs lived with man, and how to snap back at anyone who tells them different. Sorry, did I say church? Make that a fourth grade classroom   (snopes.com) divider line 464
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14948 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2013 at 2:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-26 09:45:52 AM

grxymkjbn: Uchiha_Cycliste: need mind occupyinng

Take my challenge to define "existence" in any way that the word could include the biblical God but exclude Vulcans.  You don't have to believe your definition accurate; it's just a fun game for those who enjoy occupying their minds.


Unfortunately I must admit that I am only familiar with the new (2009) Star Trek Movie. It's one of those things I've always meant to get around to, like the God father, but have never watched. I'm pitifully unprepared for this task =(
 
2013-04-26 09:49:31 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Unfortunately I must admit that I am only familiar with the new (2009) Star Trek Movie. It's one of those things I've always meant to get around to, like the God father, but have never watched. I'm pitifully unprepared for this task =(


No prob; feel free to substitute any known-to-be-fictional entity(s) you prefer.
 
2013-04-26 09:51:11 AM

grxymkjbn: Uchiha_Cycliste: Unfortunately I must admit that I am only familiar with the new (2009) Star Trek Movie. It's one of those things I've always meant to get around to, like the God father, but have never watched. I'm pitifully unprepared for this task =(

No prob; feel free to substitute any known-to-be-fictional entity(s) you prefer.


Interesting game, I'll keep... in mind... when bored.
Whelp. finally time to ride. Talk to you guys in an hour or two.
 
2013-04-26 09:59:24 AM

Death Eats a Cracker: EvilPun: grimlock1972: Sadly its this kind of crap why we need federal oversight of education curriculum.

It's a private school so no, they could teach Hitler and Buddah had a gay sex orgy in Guam if they wanted to.

Is that really true?


No. Buddah is spelled Buddha.
 
2013-04-26 10:00:50 AM

mikefinch: Ahh -- Likely real.

I remember i went to a 7th day adventist private school for junior high... (wanted out of the public system -- bullying sucks -- when i came back to it 3 years later the problems were gone...) And the SDA schools do push this stuff.

We had a pretty good science text book -- it delved into genetics and evolution and all the usual crap quite well so that wasnt a problem for me. The textbook had a title page for each chapter with a little blurb relating the subject matter to god but other than that it left god out of science. I think part of that is they picked nonbiased books because the kids had to do well on provincial exams for them to keep getting a subsidy.

They would give tests like this to kids in the 3-6 grades. Yup. I have seen it.

More rambling:

The teacher and the school staff and board were not so cool. Let me stress -- i am NOT SDA. My two best friends growing up however were and i spent tons of time in their church. I however was a waaaay to geeky kid (as i said -- bullies) and anything involving natural science made my pants tingle... I remember the SDA pastor being at the school one day and he was talking to the students about evolution and i asked him some pointed questions regarding their 6000 year earth theory. He came back with some crap about how the flood would have changed the air pressure so even the dinosaurs on the ark would have died because their lung capacity was too small or something. Like he pulled it straight out of his ass. I knew damn well he was full of shiat. I remember at the age of 14 being completely disgusted with a grown mans capacity for rational thought.

They really honest to god believe the sharp dinosaur teeth on things like T-Rex or Albertosaurus were made to cut through plant matter. I challenged them on that when i heard it and they insisted the serrated blade like teeth were for munching tough plant matter.

They told me not to drink milk because Adam and Eve would have just had water and juic ...


Wow...that is mortifying. I don't remember any of that BS being that I grew up SDA, but then again I may have been too young to notice or got out before the crazy really set in. I knew some of the crap at the church was just that, like the whole no bacon or any good seafood thing. I farking love bacon and shrimp...did when I was a kid and I still do. I am a practicing Pagan now, although I don't get to practice often enough. You should check up on the history of how the SDA church was formed...remember that guy a year or so ago that said the world would end on some off-the-wall day? Yea...that was basically how the SDA church started...
 
2013-04-26 10:01:57 AM

SoCalChris: I sound fat: Both theories are equally theories. Done. That was pretty simple.

I really hope you're trolling, but there's a HUGE difference between a scientific theory like evolution, and a "I have a theory that Jebus created everything in 6 days" theory.
 http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-defini tio n-of-theory.html


You be surprised by the number of people who don't know the difference. Around these parts of NC, the people I run into have little or no understanding of basic scientific concepts in general, outside of a small pool of people. The small pool of people are often criticized for being too educated and a stain on society. It often makes me sad when I see that happens.
 
2013-04-26 10:13:20 AM

TeaCozy: No, no, NO!

God created the dinosaurs and our human-like ancestors in his first attempt at creation. (Yes, dinosaurs and human-ish creatures were here at the same time! Duh!) He didn't much like them because they were jerks and so he destroyed them. Then he took a break and then made all the animals we know and us.

Carbon dating and other stuff that science types do to tell us how old stuff is are INACCURATE!!!!111

Scientists are NOT GOD!!!!! Their smarts come from God, but they turn away from God and choose to use their brains for the world/man. (Sin!)

/know someone who believes this.


what's even better is when you show them where christian scientists use carbon dating on various biblical sites or artifacts to show that carbon dating matches the bible...

"In 2010, Noah's Ark Ministries International l (NAMI) released videos of their discovery of the wood structures.[18] Members of Noah's Ark Ministries International reported carbon dating suggests the wood is approximately 4,800 years old "

Professor Mike Finnegan and Jonathan Tubb started by working out whether Sodom and Gomorrah actually existed. They found 2 cities near the Dead Sea as potential sites, both devastated by earthquakes in which the beams of a tower which collapsed in the event were carbon dated. "Carbon dating put the date of the tower's beams at 2350 BC - the early Bronze Age. " which they use to corroborate their story.

Samples from the Siloam tunnel, which the books of Kings and Chronicles say was constructed in ancient Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah, have been dated using radiometric techniques by researchers from Israel and the UK. Amos Frumkin at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and colleagues at the Geological Survey of Israel and Reading University calculate that the tunnel was built in about 700 BC, and that the biblical text provides an accurate historical record of the tunnel's construction (A Frumkin et al. 2003 Nature 425 169).
 
2013-04-26 10:13:26 AM

kxs401: It is a private school, to be fair.

Then again, these kids are going to be our fellow citizens. Voters, coworkers, neighbors, etc. Be scared.


Yeah, don't private schools still have to maintain some sort of standards? Are there seriously no rules to prevent teaching absolute bullshiat?
 
2013-04-26 10:19:26 AM
"Religion.  Letting people think they have the answers when they really dont"  Bill Mahr - Religulous
 
2013-04-26 10:20:53 AM

NewportBarGuy: MBK: You know anyone can print out tests and claim they are "real deals".

It...is really damn easy.  A few bad clip art pieces, some questions, and OMG INSTANT INTERNET CELEBRITY

Because millions of Americans haven't been clamoring for us to "TEACH THE CONTROVERSY" for how many years now?


how is that proof though? You're still just assuming.
 
2013-04-26 10:21:50 AM

Calipataa: Try Buddhism. Seriously. It can help make peace with that terror by embracing that terror - and letting it go.


I did and it really does. I'm still a bit depressed reagrding some things but its more a thing of pity and sadness than despair. That and i had a really weird dream one night and when i awoke i just wasn't upset anymore. Like i had some sort of epiphany while sleeping.

Uchiha_Cycliste: I hope I never implied you were a bible thumper. I was raised Catholic myself and would consider myself to bee agnostic these days (or Catholic when my family asks =/) You are giving me new and different ways to approach my view of God, that's good.


mmm no worries -- i have a cold and i am aswell up far past my bedtime. You never implied i was a bible thumper -- I just didnt want to have to explain to anyone up in arms about religion that i wont defend some crazy literal interpretation of the bible.

Personally i consider myself a theist... but i had an argument with a nice SDA girl one day about whether you could call yourself a theist without honestly thinking of atheism as a viable alternative -- That is -- How could you believe in god if it was impossible for you to not believe in god? For it to be a belief it has to be an honest choice. She got pretty pissed when i suggested she had to accept that god might not exist for her to actually have faith that he did... Otherwise its indoctrinated. Its the only thing you know. How can you know if pb&j sandwiches are the best if you have never even considered putting another sandwich in your mouth and giving it an honest chance? -- Idk, i would describe my faith as a bit mystic. Buddhism is great but i wouldnt call myself a Buddhist. I like their way of looking at things though.

Uchiha_Cycliste: One final question before I leave, it appears to me both from my posts and your replies that we have limited our discussion to OT God. At this point I think it would muddy the waters substantially to discuss NT God too. Is that your reading of things as well?


Idk -- The new testament is weird. Jesus shows up and explains that everyone was taking the Torah way too litterally and they were following the law of god without following the spirit. They were loopholing god as it were. Most of what jesus says is almost heretical to allot of evangelical churches. Like when jesus said 'let he without sin cast the first stone' or when he said 'he who lives by the sword dies by the sword' or 'its not what goes into the mouth that makes the body unclean but what comes out of it' or when his diciples were pissed at the annoying kids running around and jesus said 'suffer not the little children'

Pretty much everything he said and did pointed towards an attitude of 'Hey man -- dont be such a freaking dick'.  -- Honestly -- evangelicals love to cast the first stone, they love to claim the things you put in your body like certain meats or penises make you a dirty bad person. They love getting geared up to whup infedel asses. And they like to act like being a stuffy pious bum makes you more important to god than other people.

The way i had it explained to me was that god only gave us rules we would get. The 10 commandments can be summed up in 'treat others as you would like to be treated' but in the time of moses people would have interpreted that to be something allong the lines of 'an eye for an eye'. So god dumbed down the rules in the old testament and when jesus shows up in the new testament it signals a new covenant with god.

One of the biggest most blatant errors in the bible is in the NT. (the disciples say some stuff in the books after the gospels and acts that get weird.) I think its somewhere in Corinthians but the phase is something like 'doesn't nature teach us that baldness is a shame unto women and long hair is a shame unto men?' But the thing is that that idea is very culturally inspired. Clearly evidence of the bible having stuff in it that isnt true.

Lots of dudes have long hair. In japan it was a dishonor NOT to have your hair long as a guy. I know some native dudes that only cut their hair when a family member dies. So nature does not teach us that. So we have to admit that some of the bible is culturally inspired. And if we accept that part of it is culturally inspired than we can't treat any rules in it as hard and fast. Indeed i think a huge portion of jesus's message amounted to 'the rules are there to make your life better -- not keep people down'. The bible is a history book alright and its history is that bad shiat happens and its always going to happen so stop bad shiat when you can and try not to be a source of new shiat.

Jesus always spoke in parables and metaphors -- woudnt it make sense that the book of faith god sent to the isrialites was also full of parables and metaphores?

I dunno -- just figured i would expound and tap at my keyboard for a bit and them BAM birds are singing and its light out.
 
2013-04-26 10:27:41 AM

mikefinch: I dont see why god wouldnt be able to think it all out start to finish and then toss it into motion. Why would god care about science? They would effectively be rules he came up with.

Whats more existentially terrifying for me is that the vast uncaring universe exists at all. And to be honest i do have emotional anguish related to it. I get freaking depressed. Very very depressed. Mostly because i feel like my soul is caught doing a permanent impression of Edvard munches 'the scream' in reaction to just being here. Its not just terrifying and horrifying enough to be conscious and have to live and die and figure all that shiat out but people have to be horrible terrible sunsofbiatches while you try to do it... And then to comprehend your unintended propagation of that system that so disgusts you... Its just... farked up. Whether you believe in god or not ...


I used to feel much the same way. I was raised Catholic (spent 13 years in Catholic schools) and was, at various points in time, quite devout. Or at least I tried to be... Deep down, I could never reconcile the logical inconsistencies with Christian doctrine. While my faith (such as it was) appealed to my warm-and-fuzzy emotional side, it left my logical side with too many questions.

I suspect this is why many fundamentalist believers cling so strongly to their beliefs even after they're proven completely wrong - because once you start questioning one aspect of your faith, the whole house of cards comes down & you have to question the very nature of existence. It's scary as hell & life is hard enough to get through as it is.

FWIW, from both an emotional & logical point of view, it helped me a lot to read some Lao Tzu and James Allen (The Tao Te Ching and As a Man Thinketh, respectively). The general idea I grokked from both works is that the universe isn't good or evil - it's just neutral - and that we decide (based on our own free will) what to do with it & in it. Instead of feeling like a reactive pawn, we are proactive gods in our own right. The philosophy made a lot of sense to me; it also helped me get over the fear/guilt-based worldview that had been instilled in me since birth - often by well-intentioned people who were also trapped in a fear/guilt-based mindset.

Just a thought; YMMV.
 
2013-04-26 10:28:45 AM

Steak_Cake_Sause: impaler: iheartscotch: FAKE! I went to a catholic school; even there they fit evolution to genesis. It wasn't six calendar days, no, it was six metaphorical days that stretched back from the moment god created the earth, till he created man.

/ but, then again, that was right around the time that rocks were invented

I went to a Catholic school too. Baptists are no Catholics.

Seriously, if the US was Catholic, this BS wouldn't exist. If anything, the bible explicitly describes bio-genesis and evolution (man was formed from clay). But we aren't talking about churches that have had power through a massive hierarchy through centuries. We're talking about churches where the most literate out of a few hundred nearly illiterates was king. The shat they came up with 200 years ago is still haunting us today.

Yeah, we'd have a hole different mess of BS to deal with.

AIDS and contraception come to mind.


Are you sure?  Cuz Spain is Catholic, and it is pretty damn cool (debt notwithstanding).  And do you really think that a Jesuit-style Catholic leader would do worse with AIDS than Reagan?  Jesuits are scary smart and nearly always pragmatic (although they are staggeringly power hungry).

And if nuns ran the country there wouldn't be any damn rape.  Those penguins were awesome at mental castration.

/ 12 years Catholic schooling
// Taught evolution quite well by nuns
/// not a Catholic anymore
 
2013-04-26 10:30:44 AM

EvilPun: grimlock1972: Sadly its this kind of crap why we need federal oversight of education curriculum.

It's a private school so no, they could teach Hitler and Buddah had a gay sex orgy in Guam if they wanted to.


Pretty sure theres still standards for private schools, state and possibly federally mandated curriculum.

Wasnt there something a while back about colleges and universities not accepting degrees from high schools that didnt teach a comprehensive (factual) science curriculum?
 
2013-04-26 10:37:00 AM

Calipataa: Uchiha_Cycliste: give me doughnuts: Calipataa: Milwaukee? Is there life on Milwaukee?

There must be. After all, it's Algonquin for "the good land."

I was not aware of that.

Neither is Wikipedia : "The word "Milwaukee" may come from Algonquin/Ojibwa language and on 1673 map by Marquette and Joliet was shown Mesquakinin (people of Mesquakie or ME-SEKI-wa-KI). Now they have casino in Iowa. A special quarry provided famous yellow bricks as well as a unique color of orange clay to protect natives from insects. Mesquakie means "bodies of color red and yellow" --an orange or red as noted by the French. "

I always thought it meant "Cheap beer."


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-26 10:39:39 AM

mephox: GungFu: Dummy: God created the earth 6 thousand years ago.

Me: Were you there?

Better yet, ask them to point to the exact passage in the bible that says the earth was created on such and such date. They can't because its not there. As with so many things in religion it's open to interpretation. Man is flawed, so sayeth the bible, so isn't it more likely that the 6000 years interpretation is also flawed? The date of the earth 'controversy' has an interesting history and any knowledge junkies would love to read it I'm sure.



You're thinking of James Ussher, who calculated "the time and date of the creation as the night preceding Sunday, 23 October 4004 BC,"   to quote Wikipedia.  If you think pointing out that the Bible doesn't give an exact date and it might have been the 25 of October instead is winning the argument, have fun.  It's not going to shake the belief of someone that fundamentalist to hear that the Earth might be 6,007 years old instead of only 6,000.

Trust me, anyone who's a fundamentalist in adulthood in lhe USA (or any other Western nation) is likely armored against any argument you could think of.  I'm not saying that you couldn't ever hope to reason with a fundamentalist, but it's not going to be as easy as pointing out one little logical flaw in their worldview and watching the whole thing collapse like a house of cards.
 
2013-04-26 10:50:56 AM

iaazathot: violentsalvation: I've known grown adults who believe that young earth / dinosaur shiat. They were otherwise educated, one I would go so far as to say he is brilliant, but he believes this shiat. I don't farking understand it.

It is a form of attention whoring, I think.



It's almost ironic, but highly intelligent people are even more likely to believe something irrational or unscientific, even (especially) when it contradicts everything else they believe.  There was a thread earlier this week about people who believe in conspiracy theories, and one of the things TFA pointed out was that people who believe in one conspiracy theory are more likely to believe in a second conspiracy theory even if the two conspiracy theories contradict each other.

There's a phenomenon called the "clever silly," a highly intelligent person who believes something that is, well, just silly: that anyone of average, or even below average, intelligence would reject out of hand as obviously untrue.  The clever silly person convinces himself that it's true and comes up with arguments to defend his irrational belief.

If I may resort to homilies, "Man is not a rational animal.  Man is a rationalizing animal."  Very often we decide what we WANT to believe  and then we muster arguments to defend those beliefs.  Yes, it's putting the cart before the horse, and yes, it's the exact opposite of how science works, but it is, sadly, how most people think ---- or really, it's how ALL people think, at least some of the time, but perhaps some people more so than others.
 
2013-04-26 10:53:46 AM
If you could reason with religious people there wouldn't be any religious people.

I forget who said that.  Besides me, I mean.
 
2013-04-26 10:55:21 AM
This is why my wife and I had to make the unfortunate decision that in the fall when our oldest starts first grade, she'll be attending the local public school.  It is the best in the area, but still mediocre.  The only other options are private schools run by religious groups.  I know she would get a much better education in math, reading, etc., but it's not worth it to have her exposed to nonsense like this being presented as fact by the people she will see as the keepers of knowledge (her teachers).
 
2013-04-26 10:56:19 AM

StandsWithAFist: logical rant...


\csb:
I also came to this realization when I did a 2 week trip to the bush a couple years ago. 2 day survival class (which was just refresher course for me) and 9 days in the bush. Tools were limited to what you can carry, and you come to realize that nature (and thus the universe) just is. There were no messengers, no angels, no spirits, no divine guidance. It just is, and it is beautiful. Living in modern society doesn't let you see that perspective. You see everyday the influence of man on the world and think there is a purpose, some goal, and because of that, people look to the heavens for answers. But out there, with a handful of people or alone by yourself and you are hungry because you haven't eaten in 2 days, you are tired and exhausted because you've been walking up and down hills and through knee deep bush and bramble and it begins to sink in. God isn't going to send a beaver or a deer your way because you pray for it. You have to rely on yourself, your skills, and your training to get you to the next step, and when rather or not you live or die nature is there, and your presence makes no difference and THAT'S the moment you realize that you must make your own way and survival is up to you and you only. You live, you die, and and you will likely be forgotten by both man, and the universe.
\end CSB
 
2013-04-26 10:59:01 AM
Instead of teaching evolution or creationism, they should only teach Ancient Aliens.
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-26 11:00:44 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: ciberido: I was there, but I've only done this once before.

If every vampire that says he was at the crucifixion was actually there it would have been as crowded as Woodstock.

I think you missed something.
[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 317x159]

No, I just wanted to point out what a crowded place that hill would have been if either time travelers or vampires (whe are kinda iike time travelers who can only go forward) existed. In either case, if you were there you would need your own weapon

Incidentally, assuming the blood didn't kill them cuz holy and all that, how much would a vampire LOVE Jesus? Essentially immortal, self healing, he's the ubiquitous bottomless drink cup, but fresh blood.



Wouldn't Jesus' blood burn a vampire like holy water does?
 
2013-04-26 11:01:05 AM

Deep Contact: Instead of teaching evolution or creationism, they should only teach Ancient Aliens.
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 605x412]


You might want to ask the rev. Tom Cruise about that...
 
2013-04-26 11:01:23 AM

kazikian: I can never understand why anyone would think evolution is incompatible with religion. God could very well have created creatures that are able to evolve to better suit their needs as time passes and things change. If anything that would seem to add to the glory of God; I mean, not only is He able to create life, but He creates life that continues to function and adapt independently of further supernatural meddling. How cool is that, right?


It's so cool, in fact, that no god is needed to accomplish such a feat. How cool is that?
 
2013-04-26 11:03:19 AM

Deathfrogg: savages in Southern Africa


Are you from the 1880s or something?
 
2013-04-26 11:06:26 AM
This is all crap.

Everyone who isn't in complete Religious Denial knows the last dinosaurs were killed off by the Mexicans toward the end of the Mexican and Indian Conflict of 1844. As the true historians among you know, the Mexicans sent sappers through the indian minefield one cold night in November 1844.

The sappers drug sacks of Maize Corpus de Christi which was maize grown using only holy water and the sacred dung shat by the Benedictine Monks of the Abbey of Santo Domingo de Silos. Directed by God and his adult-human infant-god son, Jesus, the Mexican sappers, once through the minefield, lobbed the holy corn grenades into the dinosaur encolsures. As most scholars know, pointed teeth do not a meat-eater make! Dinsoaurs were herbivores and the indian dinosaurs were partial to maize. The great beasts set upon the holy maize with great hunger and furious heathen appetites. Once they ingested the Maize Corpus de Christi, or "body of Christ's maize", the dinosaurs turned into what we know today as Felis catus*.

You people really do believe all of the secularist lies the socialist vanguard has been spoon-spoon feeding you since Abraham Lincoln freed the catamites upon the world, don't you?

Well, you'll all rue the day! When the pig-iron, glowing red from the stok'd hellfire, is slap't unto thy dirty fissure: YOU'LL RUE THE DAY. You will. Just wait and see.

farm6.staticflickr.com

*This is how, in tales of fantasy and woe, the common house cat became to be associated with succubus witches and evil, rapscallion warlocks.
 
2013-04-26 11:11:35 AM

violentsalvation: I've known grown adults who believe that young earth / dinosaur shiat. They were otherwise educated, one I would go so far as to say he is brilliant, but he believes this shiat. I don't farking understand it.


just ask him why whales have leg and foot bones in thier tails that never emerge, and if, since he knows that evolution is a lie, if he'd be willing to help everybody out by taking last year's flu shot instead of the new one
 
2013-04-26 11:12:32 AM

Feral_and_Preposterous: This is all crap.

Everyone who isn't in complete Religious Denial knows the last dinosaurs were killed off by the Mexicans toward the end of the Mexican and Indian Conflict of 1844. As the true historians among you know, the Mexicans sent sappers through the indian minefield one cold night in November 1844.

The sappers drug sacks of Maize Corpus de Christi which was maize grown using only holy water and the sacred dung shat by the Benedictine Monks of the Abbey of Santo Domingo de Silos. Directed by God and his adult-human infant-god son, Jesus, the Mexican sappers, once through the minefield, lobbed the holy corn grenades into the dinosaur encolsures. As most scholars know, pointed teeth do not a meat-eater make! Dinsoaurs were herbivores and the indian dinosaurs were partial to maize. The great beasts set upon the holy maize with great hunger and furious heathen appetites. Once they ingested the Maize Corpus de Christi, or "body of Christ's maize", the dinosaurs turned into what we know today as Felis catus*.

You people really do believe all of the secularist lies the socialist vanguard has been spoon-spoon feeding you since Abraham Lincoln freed the catamites upon the world, don't you?

Well, you'll all rue the day! When the pig-iron, glowing red from the stok'd hellfire, is slap't unto thy dirty fissure: YOU'LL RUE THE DAY. You will. Just wait and see.

[farm6.staticflickr.com image 700x406]

*This is how, in tales of fantasy and woe, the common house cat became to be associated with succubus witches and evil, rapscallion warlocks.


Sorry, that should have been, "Maize de Corpus Christi", I think. I'm a scholar of history, not latin.
 
2013-04-26 11:18:35 AM

Spiralmonkey: That is too scary to be snarky about.


Hold me and we'll get through this together.
 
2013-04-26 11:19:50 AM

Shadow Blasko: I've got a family member like that. He's super smart, computer programmer... he's forgotten more about old hardware than I will ever know. He's a super nice guy, but yeah... young earth creationist. I can't figure it out.

/really thinks fossils were put on earth to test our faith.


I worked with someone like that at my last job. He was a fellow software developer close to my age at the time - about 30.  I wouldn't go so far as to call him brilliant, but he definitely seemed to be a very sharp guy.  We wend on a business trip together for a week one time.  After a night out at the bars in central america, we got to talking about religion for some very regrettable reason and I found out that he is a fundamentalist christian and believes in a literal interpretation of everything in the bible, including that the earth was created in 7 days just a few thousand years ago.

I was absolutely broadsided.  I used to frequent Eastern Kentucky and I met all kinds of strange flavors of religious nuttiness there, but he was the first seemingly normal, intelligent person I'd ever met who believed this type of stuff.  We talked about it a few times after that and I was always respectful about his beliefs and tried really hard to understand his point of view.  It got more and more awkward for me to be around him, even once we simply agreed to disagree and entirely stopped discussing anything remotely related to religion.  We both left that company 6-7 years ago, but to this day I ignore requests from him on social networks because it is so terribly difficult for me to mentally deal with the juxtaposition of his technical intelligence & religious ridiculousness.  Just writing about this brings back that weird, slightly creepy feeling I used to get being around him.
 
2013-04-26 11:27:52 AM
This sounds like homeschool curriculum.  Support the GOP's education initiatives and protect a parents right to permanently fark up their own children.   Social Darwinism indeed!
 
2013-04-26 11:28:53 AM
The Nazis killed 6 million Jews during World War II.

Were you there?

/facepalm
//headdesk
///slashies
 
2013-04-26 11:30:50 AM

grxymkjbn: mikefinch: But he doesn't have accountability. To whom is he accountable?

To His creation, of course.  If you decide to procreate and have a red headed child - but you don't like red hair - is it ethically acceptable for you to toss it in the trash and try again?

If you create something that is self-aware, ethics demand that you take some responsibility for your choice to bring that being into existence.

To say otherwise is unethical.


Goddamnit -- god doesn't have to be ethical. Everything he does is ethical by the pure virtue that HE did it. Thats the whole thing about god. What ethics? Ethics are a human thing -- what leads you to believe god is bound by the same honor system? And couldnt 'responsibility' be just killing it with a hammer and starting over? I'mean -- you dont have to like it. Its his toy. He can do what he wants with it.

God being forced to be accountable sound to me like telling someone they are cheating at a game with no rules.

grxymkjbn: If God was here before reality and outside of reality, then God is necessarily "unreal"... ie nonexistent.

  Words mean things.


Just because something is outside reality doesn not imply it doesnt exist. Think of reality as a box you live in. God lives in that box. He also lives outside the box. All you can see are the dark walls of a room -- but to god thats you in a box.  You really cant get how god would have to be above all mortal concepts for him to really be god?

grxymkjbn: "Existence" is a word that means the opposite of "nonexistence".  I'd be interested in seeing anyone define "existence" in a way that can include the biblical God, but exclude leprechauns, elves, Vulcans or any other imaginary entities.


Wtf are you talking about?

grxymkjbn: If God was here before reality and outside of reality, then God is necessarily "unreal"... ie nonexistent.

  Words mean things.


Ahh -- i see -- you equate unreal and nonexistient as being the same thing. They may be under the same column in the thesaurus but they are not the same thing. Words mean things but god isn't disproved because you picked shiatty words to describe him.

The whole idea behind a god is a creature that lives above and beyond reality. Wouldn't a god be able to occupy the space inside reality and without? Both at the same time? Imean he his omnipresent right?

Just seems like your trying to "get" god on a technicality you invented. There are no GOTCHA moments with an all knowing all powerful all present being.

DeathCipris: Wow...that is mortifying. I don't remember any of that BS being that I grew up SDA, but then again I may have been too young to notice or got out before the crazy really set in. I knew some of the crap at the church was just that, like the whole no bacon or any good seafood thing. I farking love bacon and shrimp...did when I was a kid and I still do. I am a practicing Pagan now, although I don't get to practice often enough. You should check up on the history of how the SDA church was formed...remember that guy a year or so ago that said the world would end on some off-the-wall day? Yea...that was basically how the SDA church started...


The millerites.. Omg when i heard about that whole affair my jaw dropped. Its like they fell for a Nigerian prince scam and kept on running. I should say though that most of them had very good intentions. They were very kind people... Their education system was just to keep kids cloistered though.
Sooo cloistered. I convinced a college sophmore that penises had two holes. One for urine in the front and the one for semen was halfway down on the underside. Like a dolphins blow hole.

A 20 year old girl bought that. She was in university. When your religion starts interfering with adults understanding of basic anatomy something is going wrong...

Go pagan! My wife told me that after our first date she liked me so much she went out and cast a love spell in the woods near her house. Then she ended up worrying that i was only smitten because she had actually gotten it to work or something. Be careful what you wish for lol.

If your into the pagan thing you might want to look into Thoth tarot cards. If nothing else they are beautiful beautiful cards.
 
2013-04-26 11:33:00 AM

Magorn: violentsalvation: I've known grown adults who believe that young earth / dinosaur shiat. They were otherwise educated, one I would go so far as to say he is brilliant, but he believes this shiat. I don't farking understand it.

just ask him why whales have leg and foot bones in thier tails that never emerge, and if, since he knows that evolution is a lie, if he'd be willing to help everybody out by taking last year's flu shot instead of the new one


Those are "tail bones". They give the whale-tail strength for smiting and swimming. Because your tiny mind can't comprenend how two similar things can be used for completely different purposes let me offer the following example using an ordinary item, the spoon.

John goes to Bed Bath and Beyond and buys a decorative spoon. It is stainless steel and is designed to look like bamboo. He takes it home and eats a simple, one-color, sherbet with it.

Raul goes to Bed Bath and Beyond and buys a decorative spoon. It is stainless steel and is designed to look like bamboo. He takes it home and murders his life-partner, Phillip, by shoving the handle of that spoon through Phillip's ear-drum and deep into his amygdala. Then Raul takes the spoon, digs out Phillips eyes, and fills the sockets with rainbow sherbet. He then sits in front of his new 80" Samsung flat-screen TV and watches Big Bang Theory. Raj is trés cute! Oh, how Raj makes Raul laugh!

Now both of those spoons were made by the same guy in the same factory in China. They have the same bamboo pattern and same chemical composition. But they have led very different lives. Now you're going to tell me they weren't made by the same guy?
 
2013-04-26 11:40:33 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Ranger Rover: Sure, I would agree with that - I meant for that summation to be encompassed by my assertion that religious assertions are based on "incontrovertible truth" - which requires faith.

Yeah, I just wanted to elaborate that faith *requires* there be no evidence, which makes scientists sort or cross (heh) and as science requires proof its fallacious for religious dillweeds to try to claim that science is a religion since the two couldn't be more mutually exclusive.



No, it doesn't.  Faith is indifferent to evidence.  There can be lots of evidence, noevidence  evidence against, it doesn't matter.  Faith doesn't require anything but faith.  Unless, maybe, your evidence is  a Babel fish.
 
2013-04-26 11:41:41 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Deathfrogg: savages in Southern Africa

Are you from the 1880s or something?


Do you deny that raping infants would indicate otherwise? How about burning down schools and butchering the students? There are savages in the United States, there are savages in Germany, France, Italy and China. There are people in the United States that openly all for the extermination of Jews, Black folks, Native Americans, Mexicans (meaning anyone from south of the border), there are people that cannot or will not obey even the most basic laws of civilization. They wrap it up all nice and tidy in their belief that they are the ones being threatened and must defend themselves, even though all they are really doing, is rationalizing their own psychotic behavior.

Anyone that rationalizes psychotic behavior, whether it is through religion or some other belief system is a savage.
 
2013-04-26 11:44:41 AM
s22.postimg.org

s21.postimg.org
 
2013-04-26 11:49:54 AM
i14.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-26 11:50:03 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: themightyboof: "Where you there?" is going to be new response for everything.

So its come to this...


imgs.xkcd.com

There is a xkcd for any situation.
 
2013-04-26 11:51:48 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: NOOOOOOOOOO I refreshed and no new comments. Wat do? need mind occupyinng


Shhhhh.... everybody keep hiding from UC.  We can post after he leaves.
 
2013-04-26 11:56:13 AM

RubberBabyBuggyBumpers: kazikian: I can never understand why anyone would think evolution is incompatible with religion. God could very well have created creatures that are able to evolve to better suit their needs as time passes and things change. If anything that would seem to add to the glory of God; I mean, not only is He able to create life, but He creates life that continues to function and adapt independently of further supernatural meddling. How cool is that, right?

It's so cool, in fact, that no god is needed to accomplish such a feat. How cool is that?


That's somehow less cool. It would all be so PoMo.
 
2013-04-26 11:58:10 AM
img855.imageshack.us

Dear America,

I know that radical belief in the Christian Bible doesn't reflect your entire country's way of thinking. However, it is worryingly present in a number of areas. Think about how your citizens feel about Middle Eastern countries teaching their children a literal interpretation of the Koran for science class and you'll understand how the rest of the Western world feels about you teaching your children a literal interpretation of the Christian Bible for science class. It scares us, because you have the most nukes.

Sincerely,

The internet

/personally, I believe the rise in radical atheism has contributed the rise of creationism in the U.S.
//people still confuse specific scientific findings with the scientific method
///shame
 
2013-04-26 12:03:01 PM

mike_d85: As someone who lived "north of Greer" I can tell you there is no private schools north of Greer. And it's pretty much Greer, then nothing, then nothing that belongs to North Carolina.


There's Landrum, although I can understand why you would overlook it.
 
2013-04-26 12:03:09 PM

DeathCipris: mikefinch: Ahh -- Likely real.

I remember i went to a 7th day adventist private school for junior high... (wanted out of the public system -- bullying sucks -- when i came back to it 3 years later the problems were gone...) And the SDA schools do push this stuff.

We had a pretty good science text book -- it delved into genetics and evolution and all the usual crap quite well so that wasnt a problem for me. The textbook had a title page for each chapter with a little blurb relating the subject matter to god but other than that it left god out of science. I think part of that is they picked nonbiased books because the kids had to do well on provincial exams for them to keep getting a subsidy.

They would give tests like this to kids in the 3-6 grades. Yup. I have seen it.

More rambling:

The teacher and the school staff and board were not so cool. Let me stress -- i am NOT SDA. My two best friends growing up however were and i spent tons of time in their church. I however was a waaaay to geeky kid (as i said -- bullies) and anything involving natural science made my pants tingle... I remember the SDA pastor being at the school one day and he was talking to the students about evolution and i asked him some pointed questions regarding their 6000 year earth theory. He came back with some crap about how the flood would have changed the air pressure so even the dinosaurs on the ark would have died because their lung capacity was too small or something. Like he pulled it straight out of his ass. I knew damn well he was full of shiat. I remember at the age of 14 being completely disgusted with a grown mans capacity for rational thought.

They really honest to god believe the sharp dinosaur teeth on things like T-Rex or Albertosaurus were made to cut through plant matter. I challenged them on that when i heard it and they insisted the serrated blade like teeth were for munching tough plant matter.

They told me not to drink milk because Adam and Eve would have just had wat ...


I grew up SDA before I was able to leave once I turned 18.  Every single thing he said about this church is true.  Every. single. thing.

They even gave us comic books as "teen" lesson plans which talked about how there were two different anti-christs that would rise up against saturday-worshippers.  The first was america and the second was catholicism.  You cannot make this stuff up.

The religion was started by a lady who was hit in the face by a rock at age 13.  Ellen G. White.  They always talk about not listening to "false" prophets but make an exception for her.
 
2013-04-26 12:04:02 PM
memedepot.com
 
2013-04-26 12:04:06 PM

Feral_and_Preposterous: *This is how, in tales of fantasy and woe, the common house cat became to be associated with succubus witches and evil, rapscallion warlocks.


"Rapscallion Warlocks" would be a great name for a band.
 
2013-04-26 12:04:30 PM
Oh, one more thing. This is still the most straightforward and powerful argument for evolution that I've ever come across:

img441.imageshack.us

/most criticisms of evolution forget about the natural selection part
 
2013-04-26 12:05:03 PM

Magorn: violentsalvation: I've known grown adults who believe that young earth / dinosaur shiat. They were otherwise educated, one I would go so far as to say he is brilliant, but he believes this shiat. I don't farking understand it.

just ask him why whales have leg and foot bones in thier tails that never emerge, and if, since he knows that evolution is a lie, if he'd be willing to help everybody out by taking last year's flu shot instead of the new one


Those are left over from when the whale ate Jonah, of course.
 
2013-04-26 12:07:38 PM

CrazyCracka420: [s22.postimg.org image 280x384]

[s21.postimg.org image 600x485]


Poe's Law, how you mock me.
 
2013-04-26 12:08:25 PM
I just want to say that Lene Hau is my god. She can slow light down to about 13 mph, stop it, turn it into matter, then turn that matter back into light. The best your god did was turn water into wine.
 
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