If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mother Jones)   Since 9/11 in the United States, 29 people have been killed by right-wing terrorists and 17 by Islamic terrorists   (motherjones.com) divider line 629
    More: Scary, Islamic, United States, Islamic terrorists, threats, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Times Square bomber, underwear bomber, Peter Bergen  
•       •       •

6286 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Apr 2013 at 1:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



629 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-04-25 11:24:56 AM
I submitted this with a more trolly headline.
 
2013-04-25 11:33:55 AM
Wow so only 4 people have been killed by Islamic terrorists since the Fort Hood shooting?

oh yeah, that was just workplace violence.
 
2013-04-25 11:36:55 AM
oh snap


just saw that was a click-able link! I blame trying to Fark on an Iphone.


Not that I don't deserve what I'm about to get.....
 
2013-04-25 11:57:23 AM
AMERICA!

FARK YEAH!
 
2013-04-25 12:00:02 PM
What was the spread?
 
2013-04-25 12:15:38 PM
So 46 murders by right-wing terrorists in other words
 
2013-04-25 12:35:42 PM
What Mother Jones article says:
In contrast, right-wing extremists killed 29 people during those 11 years.

What their source *ACTUALLY* says:
 At least 29 people have been killed by non-jihadist extremists since 9/11, while 17 people have been killed by jihadists.

They then have a chart with the names and number of victims, and the chart is labeled "Deadly Rightwing Terrorist Attacks".

So I checked them out.  Here are the ones that I found weren't terrorism, or that weren't actually "Rightwing":

Christopher and Wade Lay robbed a bank and murdered people in the process. Not a terrorist attack.  -1 death.

Keith Luke raped and murdered a neighbor, and a homeless man. Not a terrorist attack, though possibly racially motivated.  -2

Robert Allen Poplawski fired at and killed 3 police officers who were coming to remove him after his mother called 9/11.  Not a terrorist attack.  -3.

Joshua Cartwright was involved in a heated domestic dispute and then fired at the responding officers, killing 2 of them.  Not a terrorist attack.  -2.


ShawnaForde, Jason Eugene Bush, Albert Robert Gaxiola  committed a home invasion burglary and killed two of the occupants, not a terrorist attack.  -2

Raymond Franklin Peake shot a man in order to steal his gun.  Not a terrorist attack.  -1.

Andrew Joseph Stack flew his airplane into an IRS building, killing one person other than himself.   His suicide note approvingly quotes a Communist aphorism and denigrates capitalism.  An anti-government  terrorist attack, but not "Rightwing" (those two aren't synonymous).  -1

Brian Lyn Smith shot at police that were coming to investigate him and others.  Not terrorism. -2.

Robert Aguigui killed his pregnant wife.  Not terrorism.  -2.

So of the 29 deaths due to "Rightwing terrorism", More than half weren't anything close to the definition of "terrorism", and in one case, the suicide note plainly shows the person wasn't motivated by right-winged-ness.

The source Mother Jones used seems to conflate the political beliefs of the criminals involved with their acts being terrorism.  If a person didn't like the government and killed his wife, RIGHTWING TERRORISM!

Based on their source, you actually *ARE* more likely to die in a Jihadist terrorist attack in the US (17 deaths) than in a Rightwing terrorist attack (13 actual Rightwing terrorist attacks).
 
2013-04-25 12:46:49 PM
That might have to do with the fact that the FBI is really really on the ball and usually stops between 25-30 plots from Islamic terrorists every year that would lead to hundreds of death?

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id =a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

The only reason that those two brothers managed to slip through the crack is because they operated alone in America. Lone wolves and all that.
 
2013-04-25 12:52:11 PM

Tatsuma: That might have to do with the fact that the FBI is really really on the ball and usually stops between 25-30 plots from Islamic terrorists every year that would lead to hundreds of death?

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id =a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

The only reason that those two brothers managed to slip through the crack is because they operated alone in America. Lone wolves and all that.


Whereas they stop zero right wing terrorists, clearly.
 
2013-04-25 12:53:36 PM
This is a stupid topic. Its the application of Identity Politics at its most opportunistic and superficial.
 
2013-04-25 12:54:48 PM
The number of Patriot groups, including armed militias, has grown 813 percent since of the Obama was elected - from 149 in 2008 to 1,360 in 2012. Link

(U//FOUO) Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment (PDF)
 
2013-04-25 12:55:19 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Wow so only 4 people have been killed by Islamic terrorists since the Fort Hood shooting?

oh yeah, that was just workplace violence.


If you want to include that, I would call murdering young children and people in a movie theatre domestic terrorism then. What's the score up to now, buddy?
 
2013-04-25 12:56:24 PM

justtray: Tatsuma: That might have to do with the fact that the FBI is really really on the ball and usually stops between 25-30 plots from Islamic terrorists every year that would lead to hundreds of death?

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id =a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

The only reason that those two brothers managed to slip through the crack is because they operated alone in America. Lone wolves and all that.

Whereas they stop zero right wing terrorists, clearly.


No, but the overwhelming focus is on foreign Islamic terrorism.
 
2013-04-25 12:57:31 PM
2 shot at El-Al counter, 10 killed by the DC Sniper, 1 killed by the 'vehicular jihad' guy, 1 during an attack on a Jewish center,  1 soldier at a recruiting booth, 13 at Fort Hood, 4 by the Boston suicide bombers.

While the Trolley Square shooter never came out officially saying he did it for religious (or any purposes), he did yell Allahu Ackbar multiple times when he killed 5 in Salt Lake.

Do we count Muslims killing Jews because they were Jews and it was political as part of it? Because then we have another three separate murders to add to the pile.

There's also a guy who shot up a police officer and co-workers while screaming Allahu Ackbar, 1 more. And there are about half a dozen more.

So by that count that's about 50 since 9/11.
 
2013-04-25 12:58:46 PM

justtray: Whereas they stop zero right wing terrorists, clearly.


I would think they would be harder to stop. With Islamic ones you have communications with foreign governments, individuals and organizations. Many travel to those locations. That has to up their chances of getting noticed

The guy who doesn't like abortion doctors and just walks up and shoots one can not be stopped.

Like he said "lone wolves"
 
2013-04-25 12:59:10 PM

justtray: Whereas they stop zero right wing terrorists, clearly.


They've also stopped a few right-wing and a few left-wing terrorists, it's all in the report.

Tatsuma: So by that count that's about 50 since 9/11.


I'm still not sure what's the point of that Mother Jones article. Depending on how you count them, you either have more 'right-wing' terrorists killing others, or more Islamic terrorist killings.

What's the farking point of that exercise anyway?
 
2013-04-25 01:00:01 PM
What about left wing terrorists like MOVE, the Black Panthers, ACORN, and Earth First!

How many people have they killed?
 
2013-04-25 01:00:25 PM
convenient that you started counting after 9/11, isn't it?  Let's look at that count since 9/10...
 
2013-04-25 01:00:45 PM
 
2013-04-25 01:01:45 PM

bdub77: If you want to include that, I would call murdering young children and people in a movie theatre domestic terrorism then. What's the score up to now, buddy?


ummmm they did include that....

Not only did you not check the links (like I didn't) you also didn't read the very next post.


So I got stupid and you took it up a notch. So congrats on that.
 
2013-04-25 01:04:41 PM

Tatsuma: What's the farking point of that exercise anyway?


I think Mother Jones is trying to get people to relax about one group of people by scare the crap out of them about another.
 
2013-04-25 01:06:50 PM

Dinki: dittybopper: Christopher and Wade Lay robbed a bank and murdered people in the process. Not a terrorist attack.  -1 death.

The Lays claimed to be robbing the bank to acquire money for munitions needed to kill the government officials they believed to be responsible for the civilian deaths incurred during the 1993 Branch Davidian incident in Waco , Texas , and the 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge ,  Idaho .

So yeah, a terrorist act.


No, robbing a bank to *FINANCE* a possible future terrorist attack.   That doesn't make the act of robbing the bank terrorism, anymore than it Timothy McVeigh stealing guns from an Arkansas gun collector he knew in order to finance his bomb attack was terrorism.

It was a farking *ROBBERY*.
 
2013-04-25 01:06:50 PM

Somacandra: This is a stupid topic. Its the application of Identity Politics at its most opportunistic and superficial.


I concur.
 
2013-04-25 01:07:28 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: bdub77: If you want to include that, I would call murdering young children and people in a movie theatre domestic terrorism then. What's the score up to now, buddy?

ummmm they did include that....

Not only did you not check the links (like I didn't) you also didn't read the very next post.


So I got stupid and you took it up a notch. So congrats on that.


Reading the articles is so 1999.
 
2013-04-25 01:07:58 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I think Mother Jones is trying to get people to relax about one group of people by scare the crap out of them about another.


Pretty much. Even if you add in honor killings to the 50 or so I counted above AND add right-wing violence to the sum total, you still get around 100 murders. In 12 years.

I think it's safe to say that people who are focusing either on Islamic or Right-Wing terrorism should shut the fark up about it. The government is doing a stellar job preventing anything bad from happening most of the time.

Let's care more about drunk-driving, about giving poor children in inner cities a choice so they don't turn to gangs, and the hundreds of other causes that kill more people every year than these things.

It's under control, nothing to see, move along citizens.
 
2013-04-25 01:10:04 PM
i13.photobucket.com

This will be interesting.
 
2013-04-25 01:10:17 PM

Dinki: dittybopper: Christopher and Wade Lay robbed a bank and murdered people in the process. Not a terrorist attack.  -1 death.

The Lays claimed to be robbing the bank to acquire money for munitions needed to kill the government officials they believed to be responsible for the civilian deaths incurred during the 1993 Branch Davidian incident in Waco , Texas , and the 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge ,  Idaho .

So yeah, a terrorist act.

Keith Luke raped and murdered a neighbor, and a homeless man. Not a terrorist attack, though possibly racially motivated.  -2

Police said Goncalves was the third and final victim of Keith Luke, a 22-year-old Brockton man who authorities said devised an "evil plan'' fueled by racism to kill as many "nonwhites'' and Jews as he could before taking his own life.

So yeah, a terrorist act.


OK, so add those back in.  Instead of 13 "Rightwing terrorism deaths", it's now 16.  That's less than the Jihadist number they claim, and just over half the number they claim as "Rightwing terrorism".

So they're actually 10.4% less dishonest than I thought they were.  Congratulations!
 
2013-04-25 01:12:02 PM

Tatsuma: Let's care more about drunk-driving, about giving poor children in inner cities a choice so they don't turn to gangs, and the hundreds of other causes that kill more people every year than these things.


Nothing some tax cuts for the wealthy can't fix.
 
2013-04-25 01:13:03 PM
Technically, Islamic terrorists and Right-Wing terrorists are the same thing.
 
2013-04-25 01:14:07 PM

Altair: Technically, Islamic terrorists and Right-Wing terrorists are the same thing.


Being 'right-wing' when it comes to religion doesn't mean that you're right-wing when it comes to politics.
 
2013-04-25 01:17:46 PM

Tatsuma: The only reason that those two brothers managed to slip through the crack is because they operated alone in America. Lone wolves and all that.


Which should be a wake-up call.  Their success isn't going to go unnoticed.

There really isn't much you can do to stop an individual or a very small group that is acting alone.

There are no travel patterns to analyze, few or no communications to intercept, no X knows Y who knows Z sort of personal patterns, and individuals and small groups, especially ones that are related, aren't likely to try and recruit outsiders.  So really nothing to ring warning bells.
 
2013-04-25 01:19:29 PM

Tatsuma: Altair: Technically, Islamic terrorists and Right-Wing terrorists are the same thing.

Being 'right-wing' when it comes to religion doesn't mean that you're right-wing when it comes to politics.


distinction without a difference
 
2013-04-25 01:24:26 PM
So... Right Wingers really ARE a bigger threat to America than Muslims, as many of us have been saying for years now?
 
2013-04-25 01:25:01 PM

Altair: distinction without a difference


Of course there is a difference. Having really strict views on modesty and religious practice does not automatically translate as having the same views regarding the economy or the social construct.


A lot of really really religious people are in favor of universal healthcare, a strong net for the less fortunate, etc...
 
2013-04-25 01:25:40 PM
Whether you're blown up by Dzhokhar Tsarnaev or Eric Rudolph you're just as dead.
 
2013-04-25 01:25:53 PM

FirstNationalBastard: So... Right Wingers really ARE a bigger threat to America than Muslims, as many of us have been saying for years now?


except that if you bothered to read the thread you'd realize that Mother Jones actually lied about the number both ways, more Right-Wing terrorism than should be, and less Islamic.


And if you read further, you'd see why it doesn't matter.
 
2013-04-25 01:25:58 PM

Tatsuma: Altair: distinction without a difference

Of course there is a difference. Having really strict views on modesty and religious practice does not automatically translate as having the same views regarding the economy or the social construct.


A lot of really really religious people are in favor of universal healthcare, a strong net for the less fortunate, etc...


You said it.  Not me.
 
2013-04-25 01:26:13 PM

Altair: Tatsuma: Altair: Technically, Islamic terrorists and Right-Wing terrorists are the same thing.

Being 'right-wing' when it comes to religion doesn't mean that you're right-wing when it comes to politics.

distinction without a difference


No, there *IS* a difference.  Just as Liberation theologists.
 
2013-04-25 01:27:14 PM

bdub77: Reading the articles is so 1999.


and how dated is reading the rest of the thread?


/just throwing you under the bus so someone doesn't do it to me
//cause as we learn from fark, what I do isn't bad if someone else does worse.

Tatsuma: The government is doing a stellar job preventing anything bad from happening most of the time.


As open as we are and as available as weapons are, yeah the fact that this doesn't happen every day is a credit to our intelligence community.
 
2013-04-25 01:33:41 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: and how dated is reading the rest of the thread?


You're supposed to read the rest of the thread?

WHY WAS THIS NOT BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION EARLIER? I WAS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION IT WAS ALL TROLLING AND ATTENTION WHORING USING CAPITAL LETTERS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!??!!
 
2013-04-25 01:34:36 PM

dittybopper:
The source Mother Jones used seems to confl ...



i865.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-25 01:48:11 PM

dittybopper: Robert Allen Poplawski fired at and killed 3 police officers who were coming to remove him after his mother called 9/11.  Not a terrorist attack.  -3.


Was a Neo nazi terrorist. So what does that make dittybopper?
 
2013-04-25 01:50:20 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: So what does that make dittybopper?


A stretch to call this terrorism?


A neo-Nazi killed his wife for cheating on him and then hung himself. Should we add another 2 dead to the number? That neo-nazi did kill two and he was leader of a neo-nazi gang so...
 
2013-04-25 01:52:26 PM

Tatsuma: Because People in power are Stupid: So what does that make dittybopper?

A stretch to call this terrorism?


A neo-Nazi killed his wife for cheating on him and then hung himself. Should we add another 2 dead to the number? That neo-nazi did kill two and he was leader of a neo-nazi gang so...


That's not the case. A Stormfront NeoNazi started set up an ambush for cops because of "Global Zionism". This certainly meets the criteria of waging war against people who don't know that they are at war.
 
2013-04-25 01:57:28 PM
Is the point that less than 50 people have died in over a decade and that we should stop using it as an excuse to shred the constitution?
 
2013-04-25 01:58:12 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: That's not the case. A Stormfront NeoNazi started set up an ambush for cops because of "Global Zionism". This certainly meets the criteria of waging war against people who don't know that they are at war.


Oh that case? Yeah I suppose we could call that 'domestic terrorism' even if it was more of a spur of the moment thing, I guess.

Either way, just read my last post.
 
2013-04-25 01:58:16 PM
The scary tag is wholly inappropriate.
 
2013-04-25 02:00:40 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Tatsuma: Because People in power are Stupid: So what does that make dittybopper?

A stretch to call this terrorism?


A neo-Nazi killed his wife for cheating on him and then hung himself. Should we add another 2 dead to the number? That neo-nazi did kill two and he was leader of a neo-nazi gang so...

That's not the case. A Stormfront NeoNazi started set up an ambush for cops because of "Global Zionism". This certainly meets the criteria of waging war against people who don't know that they are at war.


Dude, when you got Tatsuma, lover of all things Jewish and Israeli, saying the neo-Nazi didn't commit terrorism, you've truly lost the argument.  Just let it go.
 
2013-04-25 02:01:09 PM
So that is a total of 46 by radicalized religious farkwads hell bent on creating a theocracy?

American far right = taliban
 
2013-04-25 02:01:19 PM

dittybopper: What Mother Jones article says:
In contrast, right-wing extremists killed 29 people during those 11 years.

What their source *ACTUALLY* says:
 At least 29 people have been killed by non-jihadist extremists since 9/11, while 17 people have been killed by jihadists.

They then have a chart with the names and number of victims, and the chart is labeled "Deadly Rightwing Terrorist Attacks".

So I checked them out.  Here are the ones that I found weren't terrorism, or that weren't actually "Rightwing":

Christopher and Wade Lay robbed a bank and murdered people in the process. Not a terrorist attack.  -1 death.

Keith Luke raped and murdered a neighbor, and a homeless man. Not a terrorist attack, though possibly racially motivated.  -2

Robert Allen Poplawski fired at and killed 3 police officers who were coming to remove him after his mother called 9/11.  Not a terrorist attack.  -3.

Joshua Cartwright was involved in a heated domestic dispute and then fired at the responding officers, killing 2 of them.  Not a terrorist attack.  -2.


ShawnaForde, Jason Eugene Bush, Albert Robert Gaxiola  committed a home invasion burglary and killed two of the occupants, not a terrorist attack.  -2

Raymond Franklin Peake shot a man in order to steal his gun.  Not a terrorist attack.  -1.

Andrew Joseph Stack flew his airplane into an IRS building, killing one person other than himself.   His suicide note approvingly quotes a Communist aphorism and denigrates capitalism.  An anti-government  terrorist attack, but not "Rightwing" (those two aren't synonymous).  -1

Brian Lyn Smith shot at police that were coming to investigate him and others.  Not terrorism. -2.

Robert Aguigui killed his pregnant wife.  Not terrorism.  -2.

So of the 29 deaths due to "Rightwing terrorism", More than half weren't anything close to the definition of "terrorism", and in one case, the suicide note plainly shows the person wasn't motivated by right-winged-ness.

The source Mother Jones used seems to confl ...


MotherJones spinning thin facts at 9000 rpm and entirely making shiat up about "right wing terrorism" to push their own left-wing narrative?

You don't say...
 
Displayed 50 of 629 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report