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(Forbes)   Barry Sanders picked to be on next Madden NFL cover, which means the "curse" has gone retroactive. Somebody'd better warn Theismann   (forbes.com) divider line 74
    More: Interesting, Madden NFL, Theismann, NFL, redskins quarterback, ACL injury, NFL MVP, Peyton Hillis, tackles  
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891 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Apr 2013 at 10:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-25 01:45:44 PM
Of course, two days before they release Madden, he'll announce that he refuses to be on the cover, leaving them scrambling for a replacement.

What I'm saying is, Greg Hill is going to be on the cover of Madden next year.  Or Ron Rivers.
 
2013-04-25 02:06:52 PM

IAmRight: Barry Sanders and Michael Jordan, the members of the club of "Possibly (or probably) the best ever at their sport, yet they're STILL overrated" athletes.

What was it about the '90s? Is it just that these were the guys around when people started watching their sports?


I think the sports watching demographic (especially on Fark) started paying serious attention to sports in the late 80's/early 90's.

I tend to try to stay away from "best ever" stuff, because I only have historic second- or third-hand knowledge of anything that happened before then.
 
2013-04-25 02:10:10 PM
Great! Now, Barry Sanders will NEVER win a Super Bowl! :P
 
2013-04-25 02:16:06 PM

jdetweiler: is the QB you are referring to Scott "stone shoes" Mitchell, Andre "i won the heisman" Ware, or maybe Rodney "my wife is hot" Peete?


Mitchell had a couple of damn good years, with damn good receivers. Herman Moore is a borderline Hall Of Fame receiver, and there were other thousand-yard receivers on that team, like Perriman and Morton. Even Peete got the ball to Richard Johnson for a thousand yards one year.

Who did the Bears ever have catching the ball - Bo Rather? Ken Margerum? Brian Baschnagel? Dennis McKinnon? Willie Gault? As for quarterbacks, the best one in the first half of Payton's career was...there wasn't one. They were horrible. Every single one of them. From '75 until McMahon (who was average) it was Shiatting-The-Bed Central at QB for the Bears: Avellini, Huff, Phipps, Evans. It was beyond brutal to watch. You knew that if it wasn't Payton getting the ball it was either going to be an incomplete pass, a sack, a 1-yard dumpoff on third-and-10, or Payton having to chase down whatever defender picked off the pass.

Imagine a Bulls team consisting of Michael Jordan, three traffic cones and a one-legged blind leper. Watching the '75-81 Bears was something like that.
 
2013-04-25 02:29:50 PM
Jim Brown and Walter Payton are probably the best running backs to play the game.

Neither of those two were half as much fun to watch run as Barry Sanders. This is why this argument will go on forever, and you will choose the best based on what your definition of a great back is.
 
2013-04-25 02:33:45 PM

Captain Steroid: Great! Now, Barry Sanders will NEVER win a Super Bowl! :P


pbs.twimg.com

/oblig
 
2013-04-25 02:34:33 PM
This is actually the second appearance by Barry Sanders on the cover. Here's the Madden 2000 cover:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-04-25 03:02:49 PM

bdub77: Popcorn Johnny: Greatest running back of all time after Walter Payton and Gayle Sayers.

FTFY.


\Thread
 
2013-04-25 03:29:24 PM

Gulper Eel: jdetweiler: is the QB you are referring to Scott "stone shoes" Mitchell, Andre "i won the heisman" Ware, or maybe Rodney "my wife is hot" Peete?

Mitchell had a couple of damn good years, with damn good receivers. Herman Moore is a borderline Hall Of Fame receiver, and there were other thousand-yard receivers on that team, like Perriman and Morton. Even Peete got the ball to Richard Johnson for a thousand yards one year.

Who did the Bears ever have catching the ball - Bo Rather? Ken Margerum? Brian Baschnagel? Dennis McKinnon? Willie Gault? As for quarterbacks, the best one in the first half of Payton's career was...there wasn't one. They were horrible. Every single one of them. From '75 until McMahon (who was average) it was Shiatting-The-Bed Central at QB for the Bears: Avellini, Huff, Phipps, Evans. It was beyond brutal to watch. You knew that if it wasn't Payton getting the ball it was either going to be an incomplete pass, a sack, a 1-yard dumpoff on third-and-10, or Payton having to chase down whatever defender picked off the pass.

Imagine a Bulls team consisting of Michael Jordan, three traffic cones and a one-legged blind leper. Watching the '75-81 Bears was something like that.


While i cannot argue with your "bears = the suck" from when payton was playing (for the first half), and i did not rank my players (i was merely commenting on that the lions were somehow good during his tenure)  i would like to note that you pulled rodney peete to dick dick as your proof of the lions quality, which only made my argument stronger (and mitchell only had one good year, in miami!)
 
2013-04-25 03:56:16 PM

thecpt: LegacyDL: Bo Jackson > all, simply because he raped in Tecmo Bowl.

So Corey dillon for (I can't even remember) nfl 2k


I blame/thank Corey Dillon in that game for making me have fond memories of the Patriots.
 
2013-04-25 04:35:55 PM

Tiberius Gracchus: Rwa2play: Tiberius Gracchus: Rwa2play: Tiberius Gracchus: Rwa2play: That's like saying Babe Ruth's better than Willie Mays because no one was hitting for power like he was.

So...it's ultimately the right answer, but for all the wrong reasons?

Not really....?

Wait, you're saying that Willie Mays was better than Ruth?

Well, yeah (and this is a Yankee fan that's saying it).

That noise you hear is the sound of my eyeballs hitting the back of my skull ...

.342 average AND 714 home runs?  Higher OPS and WAR if you're a SABR guy?  (And the useless but fun fact that he can pitch if you need it...)


Hey, I'm right there with you.  Save for one fact:  He did it in a white-only league; that's the sad part for all involved.

See, as much as those numbers are incredible, the drawback is that many of those numbers where done in an era where blacks (and other non-white players) where excluded from the majors.

Imagine how good (or even better) baseball in the first half of the 20th century could've been if non-white players had been allowed to play with their white counterparts.  Satchel Paige v. Babe Ruth?  Josh Gibson v. Lefty Grove?  The quality of the game could've been off the charts.
 
2013-04-25 04:52:25 PM
Watch tape of Brown, Peyton and whoever else you consider the best. Those guys were on teams with offensive lines that created holes and they ran through them. Sanders made his own holes.
 
2013-04-25 05:09:33 PM

UNC_Samurai: Jim Brown
Gale Sayers
Barry Sanders
Walter Payton
Bronko Bronco Nagurski

/in that order

 
2013-04-25 05:10:40 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Watch tape of Brown, Peyton and whoever else you consider the best. Those guys were on teams with offensive lines that created holes and they ran through them. Sanders made his own holes.


Except Brown (for his time) was a freak of nature that could either run right through or past defenders in the open field.  Also, the rules of that time weren't exactly kind to receivers or backs when it came to tackles.
 
2013-04-25 05:22:11 PM
Rwa2play:

<snip>

Hey, I'm right there with you.  Save for one fact:  He did it in a white-only league; that's the sad part for all involved.

See, as much as those numbers are incredible, the drawback is that many of those numbers where done in an era where blacks (and other non-white players) where excluded from the majors.

Imagine how good (or even better) baseball in the first half of the 20th century could've been if non-white players had been allowed to play with their white counterparts.  Satchel Paige v. Babe Ruth?  Josh Gibson v. Lefty Grove?  The quality of the game could've been off the charts.


I think that the only real way to judge the history of great players is to test them against their own generation and the specifics of that league- and try not to take their stats into "what would happen if they played in era X*." What would Wilt Chamberlain avg against the Bigs dominated 80s/90s NBA, or how would Ty Cobb fare against the pitching specialization of today, What would team/player X have done in a non-expanded/diluted league or vice versa are fun questions, but I don't think they should be used to diminish the overall greatness of the athletes involved.

Ruth changed the game - that's pretty much all there is to it for me. He was a man among boys (as the saying goes) and ushered in a new era in a way I don't think anyone else ever has (with the exception of Robinson but that only somewhat had to do with his play of course - which is not intended to be a slight against a great player btw).

Which brings us back to football - Jim Brown was head and shoulders above not just the other running backs in the league, but the entire notion of the game, and changed how the game was played from strategy to the types of skill sets and players needed. Walter Payton was great but did not have the same level of "so much better than anyone in the league" that Brown (or Ruth) had. (And similar to you w/ Mays) I say this as a Bears fan whose first memory is the Super Bowl Shuffle. (That makes me think - by those standards to me, Ruth sits ahead of Jordan(or Wilt, let's not start that argument), Howe/Richard/Gretsky, and Brown/Payton-who is the greatest player (not athlete per se) of all time?).

Which is also why I was struck by the "right answer wrong reasons" which started this - since in Ruth/Mays I'd say they both point to the same person but Payton vs. Brown they might point in different directions.

*While it might count against Ruth as a person that he did not do more to integrate (taking the step from barnstorming with the Negro Leaguers to saying "they should be in the MLB" & using his popularity as a bully pulpit) I can't take away from his overall impact on the game - or his greatness as a player.
 
2013-04-25 05:37:39 PM
Sanders was the best, no doubt.

CSB: The first time I saw him, in 1988, I reunited with all my close high school friends in San Diego, we ended up in a biker bar, shooting pool, drinking pitchers and watching the Holiday Bowl...we watched Sanders just farking KILL Wyoming. He was so good even the bikers would stop what they were doing to watch the replays.

If he had landed on a team that could block, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
 
2013-04-25 05:43:47 PM
Oh, and he had the greatest season of all time....OF ALL TIME!
 
2013-04-25 06:29:58 PM
If I could pick one RB out of history to play for me in the current NFL it would be Marshall Faulk
I would pick Jim Brown for the "dead ball" era and Walter Peyton as the man for all seasons.
 
2013-04-25 06:48:43 PM

oh_please: Oh, and he had the greatest season of all time....OF ALL TIME!


Was the Big 12 in 1988 like the Big 12 today, where defense is more rare than Bigfoot and the Lochness monster playing poker together?
 
2013-04-25 07:07:02 PM
No draft thread?
 
2013-04-25 08:06:46 PM
Is Joe Namath drunk on camera again?
 
2013-04-25 08:08:31 PM
i'm predicting kc gets luke jokel
 
2013-04-25 08:31:51 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Watch tape of Brown, Peyton and whoever else you consider the best. Those guys were on teams with offensive lines that created holes and they ran through them.


Holes? Maybe when the Bears got some good linemen in the drafts after '81, but the typical Payton run before then went like this:

1) ball is snapped; two offensive linemen immediately faint and one wets himself
2) Payton gets the ball, assuming the QB doesn't drop it or forget what the ball is for
3) Payton notices three or four defenders already in the backfield, thanks the Lord that at least Roland Harper can block because the linemen are doing bugger-all for him
4) 30-40 yards of back-and-forth bobbing, weaving, flattening, stiff-arming, stomping and the occasional Soul Train dance move
5) somehow, a four-yard gain
 
2013-04-26 11:45:18 AM
There are plenty of RB's that I'd take over Barry Sanders for my team, but there's no other RB I'd rather watch play.
 
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