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(Salon)   Psychologist says that people believe in conspiracy theories so they can "have a sense of control." Of course that's what they want you to believe   (salon.com) divider line 187
    More: PSA, University of Western Australia, political lines  
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2939 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2013 at 12:17 AM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-25 06:29:57 AM

hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: Anyone who doesn't blindly believe that the Reichstag Fire  was caused by Communist Jews deserves to be gassed!

Just because Hitler blew up the Reichstag does not mean that the Government used "microthermite" to blow up the Twin Towers, or that JFK was shot by Gray Aliens.


Funny you mention this, because  Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.
He's also a truther! what a shocking surprise!
 
2013-04-25 06:33:55 AM
 
2013-04-25 06:34:41 AM

TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.


why does that not surprise me.
 
2013-04-25 08:05:32 AM

J. Frank Parnell: Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor


I need to laugh at each clause separately.

Hahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha, no.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, no.

Conspiracy theorists are open to telling you why they're right, how the evidence opposing them is just part of the cover up and how you're just not open minded enough.  You see, an intelligent debate would end with some form of "all those flaws in my argument and opposing evidence showed me I was mistaken about vaccines/chemtrails/9-11/JFK/the Moon landing, etc".  An intelligent debate wouldn't be a rehash of the same handful of debunked talking points over and over and over as it is with EVERY SINGLE CONSPIRACY THEORY.  The conviction of conspiracy theorists has nothing to do with the actual strength of their arguments.  I've had conversations with conspiracy theorists where they flat out say they can't counter some point of mine, but say they still believe their conspiracy anyway.  It's not about facts in the least.  And that leads me to

Conspiracy theorists don't have the evidence, even sometimes, in their favor.  The reason for this is pretty simple.  It has to do with the way most conspiracy theories are built.  They'll take a handful of actual facts and build a web of specious arguments around them.  There's never any evidence for the meat of the conspiracy and when you point that out they retreat back to the hodgepodge of facts they've cobbled together as "evidence".

Really, all that's left to do is this:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-04-25 08:14:30 AM
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!

/make up whatever you want!
//"conspiracy" is really a loosely used term these days huh
 
2013-04-25 08:28:08 AM

Baryogenesis: J. Frank Parnell: Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor

I need to laugh at each clause separately.

Hahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha, no.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, no.

Conspiracy theorists are open to telling you why they're right, how the evidence opposing them is just part of the cover up and how you're just not open minded enough.  You see, an intelligent debate would end with some form of "all those flaws in my argument and opposing evidence showed me I was mistaken about vaccines/chemtrails/9-11/JFK/the Moon landing, etc".  An intelligent debate wouldn't be a rehash of the same handful of debunked talking points over and over and over as it is with EVERY SINGLE CONSPIRACY THEORY.  The conviction of conspiracy theorists has nothing to do with the actual strength of their arguments.  I've had conversations with conspiracy theorists where they flat out say they can't counter some point of mine, but say they still believe their conspiracy anyway.  It's not about facts in the least.  And that leads me to

Conspiracy theorists don't have the evidence, even sometimes, in their favor.  The reason for this is pretty simple.  It has to do with the way most conspiracy theories are built.  They'll take a handful of actual facts and build a web of specious arguments around them.  There's never any evidence for the meat of the conspiracy and when you point that out they retreat back to the hodgepodge of facts they've cobbled together as "evidence".

Really, all that's left to do is this:

[imgs.xkcd.com image 314x544]


You are obviously part of the cover up, isn't that right COMRADE?
 
2013-04-25 08:32:08 AM

J. Frank Parnell: hardinparamedic: So your response to it being pointed out that you're so full of crap it's dripping from your ears is to equate your wife cheating on you with, say, 9-11 Trutherism?

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 300x168]

Putting your cognitive dissonance aside, this isn't about any particular conspiracy. Just how people, probably like yourself, dismiss them as possibilities because they're conspiracies, as if such things never happen.


Very few conspiracy theorists have any idea how conspiracies actually work in the organizations they blame for secret skulduggery. Compare the mechanism of Iran-Contra (very few people involved, an ambiguous, legally cloudy covert national-defense mission, conspiracy was exposed as soon as anyone looked into it) with 9/11 truthers (vast numbers of people would have to be involved, the conspiracy involves the mass murder of fellow Americans and military members, no actual evidence to back it has ever emerged).

Conspiracy theories have the advantage of not needing to make internal sense. All you have to do is criticize supposed holes in the official explanation, and voila! That story must be false, and you are allowed infinite speculation about the "real truth," no matter how unlikely and full of holes your conspiracy tale is.
 
2013-04-25 08:34:56 AM

log_jammin: TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.

why does that not surprise me.


Think about it! Jack Ruby was a Jew. What more evidence do you need, sheeple?
 
2013-04-25 08:41:44 AM

J. Frank Parnell: log_jammin: people dismiss them as conspiracies because there is no evidence to back them.

But they rarely even try to discuss it rationally. Just dismiss them on the grounds that they're conspiracy theories, and begin mocking and insulting like that fellow did.

Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.


Nope. Conspiracy theories have identifiable traits. One I can remember off hand is that they often cite "holes" in the prevailing theory as evidence that supports their own theory.

Link
 
2013-04-25 08:42:49 AM

Mithiwithi: J. Frank Parnell: UnspokenVoice: My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.

When i pointed out cows can also absorb protein from meat, but clearly evolved as purely vegetarian, then used that to prove us being able to absorb protein from it doesn't mean we evolved to? Good times. I'm not even all 'anti-meat'. Was just saying something that is an actual fact, and here you are, mocking me for it.

hardinthehead is misrepresenting and twisting things again, too. I don't think you guys even need me here.to play pretend.

Of course the fact that humans can digest and absorb protein isn't knock-down proof that humans were meant to eat meat.  Fortunately that's far from the only piece of evidence for that hypothesis.  A much better one, for example, is the fact that there are ten amino acids that are essential to humans (i.e. humans cannot synthesize them), whereas cows have only two.

I do suspect there is at least one person in this thread misrepresenting and twisting arguments - and if hardinparamedic is doing so, then there's at least two.


How about the fact that chimps eat meat when they can get it, and they are our closest animal relatives? I would think that if we weren't "meant" to eat meat, we wouldn't like the taste.
 
2013-04-25 08:49:32 AM

log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.


OK, this is complete and utter bullshiat. Iran-Contra was not a conspiracy theory before it came out. Neither was MK-Ultra. Neither was the Tuskegee experiment. Area 51 was (and is) a conspiracy theory about space aliens, and when an ACTUAL secret program was revealed (the F-117 stealth fighter), no one outside of a few aerospace journalists had been theorizing about this new technology being secretly developed. Certainly none of the tinfoil hat brigade.

/"Conspiracy theory" means that there is widespread belief among credulous paranoids. An investigative hypothesis within law enforcement is not a conspiracy theory.
 
2013-04-25 08:54:03 AM

epoc_tnac: Amos Quito: CONSPIRACY FACT: 19 hijackers armed with box cutters directed by OBL commandeered planes and brought down WTC 1, 2, 7 and damaged the Pentagon.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: That any factor other than the above may have been involved.

CONSPIRACY FACT: That Saddam Hussein was deeply involved with Al-Qaeda ,and helped orchestrate 9-11. He also had WMD's and could "strike Israel" in as little as 40 minutes.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: Anything other than the above.


/Are you a "Conspiracy Theorist"?

It's always baffled me that the same people who believe the Bush government lied outright about Iraq yet were 100% truthful about 9/11.


That's because those people know how to read, and have seen the considerable, often undisputed documentation about the PR campaign to justify the Iraq invasion (one can differ as to whether that rose to the level of "lying," or was just willful selection of evidence that bolstered only one theory). The September 11 attacks were thoroughly investigated by Congress and the cops, most of whom had no direct connection to the Bush administration, and no viable alternative theory has emerged to "Al Qaeda did it, just like they claim they did."
 
2013-04-25 08:57:13 AM

J. Frank Parnell: hardinparamedic: So your response to it being pointed out that you're so full of crap it's dripping from your ears is to equate your wife cheating on you with, say, 9-11 Trutherism?

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 300x168]


You're confusing amusement with anger.
 
2013-04-25 08:59:09 AM
Surprised the moon landing hasn't come up yet. I think that one is prime derp, in that the conspiracy theory is so easily shot full of holes. I mean, you really can't prove that there AREN'T lizard people; that one has internal logical consistency. But all of the so-called "facts" used to claim the moon missions were impossible can be brushed aside with a high school physics textbook.
 
2013-04-25 09:00:18 AM

UsikFark: bootmoop: Looking over, I thought to myself, "It simply can't be! That was my weird ass professor on stochastic modeling."

Have you seen what Ben Stein is up to?


I thought he was still waiting for Bueller to answer.
 
2013-04-25 09:02:13 AM

esteban9: There are two ways to slide through life without thinking. One is to believe everything, and the other to doubt everything. Sorting out the truth takes diligence and intelligence.


That would tend to imply that those two positions are equally valid - and they are not. The skeptic who doubts everything is going to be right far, FAR more often that the "believer",
A finite, limited number of things are true - an infinite, unlimited number of things are false.
 
2013-04-25 09:05:23 AM
Think whatever you want. But if you let the crazy out in public, don't get all butthurt when the normies point and laugh.
 
2013-04-25 09:15:10 AM

hardinparamedic: J. Frank Parnell: When i see someone resort to namecalling and mockery it doesn't make me think they're very intelligent, or are capable of being objectively rational. But to each their own. Someone like Bill O'Reilly frequently gets mad and insults people instead of properly arguing anything they've said, and millions of people think that makes him look correct. Dark times, these are.

Or, it could be the fact that people have addressed the statements and theories you've proposed on everything from 9/11, to Vaccination, to Fluoride so many times that they get tired of hearing you say it, and at that point resort to making fun of you just to keep things interesting.


Yep.  I tried, in other threads months ago, to take  J. Frank Parnell seriously and debate some of the stuff he posted.  First it was a bunch of crap about vegetarianism   I posted links.  Then it was fluoride   I posted links.  Then the whole Jenny McCarthy vaccination schtick.  i posted links.  He'd either ignore me completely, wave them away with some feeble dismissal, or respond with some angry rant.  At no point would he actually address the facts that contradicted the claims he was making.

So after three different topics in three different threads, I gave up.  Now when he posts I just point and laugh.
 
2013-04-25 09:29:56 AM
They are ignorant individuals who lack an understanding of the world. It is the only way they feel like they are special and more intelligent than everyone else.  This is why Glen Beck feeds BS to his audience.
 
2013-04-25 09:34:45 AM

mraudacia: if conspiracy theorists are mentally ill, you must concede that religious people are as well...

and for that matter anyone who believes in anything.

because by definition belief is not fact...


Go look up "false equivalence" and then get back to us with less derp, if possible.
 
2013-04-25 09:38:01 AM

Fano: Human minds seem configured to find patterns where there are none. I cannot award partisan points because as you say, the only thing that varies is the flavor of the conspiracy. Intelligence doesn't matter too much because the smarter folks that believe in conspiracies just use more sophisticated and subtle pattern recognition. I know that I've talked to what I consider well-educated people that, when you get them on the "right subject," start saying things like "the Zionists and the Bilderbergers meet regularly to develop world policy, you know that, right?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------- - -----------------------------------


Lsherm: scottydoesntknow: cretinbob: It's a coping mechanism

Sure, but who controls the "mechanism"? Didn't think about that didya!


img248.imageshack.us

He's controlled it since the Great Alfie War of 1985.  Prior to that, of course, Alfie controlled it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------

Build-a-Beargers?

Teddy Ruxpin?

IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER!
 
2013-04-25 09:40:10 AM

ciberido: Then it was fluoride


I ran into a conspiracy derper a few months back who was going on about fluoride so I did a little research. It was interesting to find out that the whole fluoride lunacy developed in the 50's during the red scare. Some people got convinced that fluoride was part of a plan to control their minds and make them commies. Plus ca change....
 
2013-04-25 10:28:55 AM

Whiskey Pete: ciberido: Then it was fluoride

I ran into a conspiracy derper a few months back who was going on about fluoride so I did a little research. It was interesting to find out that the whole fluoride lunacy developed in the 50's during the red scare. Some people got convinced that fluoride was part of a plan to control their minds and make them commies. Plus ca change....


TV Tropes page lists Jack T. Ripper's fluoridation obsession under "Aluminum Christmas Trees" - something that seems to later audiences as if it were unrealistic and bizarre and made up just to support the story, when in fact it was actually a thing when the story was written.

Of course, as with aluminum Christmas trees, there's always a few places where fluoridation derp never actually went out of style.
 
2013-04-25 10:30:26 AM

Triumph: The halls of corporate and political power are generally incorruptible, guileless and represented to the public by the media in a forthright fashion. People who question it are mentally ill.


A quick search for "conspiracy theories that were true" certainly confirms this.  It comes up with zero hits, so don't bother actually trying it.
 
2013-04-25 10:48:22 AM

log_jammin: TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.

why does that not surprise me.



Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?
 
2013-04-25 11:08:06 AM

Mithiwithi: Whiskey Pete: ciberido: Then it was fluoride

I ran into a conspiracy derper a few months back who was going on about fluoride so I did a little research. It was interesting to find out that the whole fluoride lunacy developed in the 50's during the red scare. Some people got convinced that fluoride was part of a plan to control their minds and make them commies. Plus ca change....

TV Tropes page lists Jack T. Ripper's fluoridation obsession under "Aluminum Christmas Trees" - something that seems to later audiences as if it were unrealistic and bizarre and made up just to support the story, when in fact it was actually a thing when the story was written.

Of course, as with aluminum Christmas trees, there's always a few places where fluoridation derp never actually went out of style.


I am old enough to have actually had an aluminum Christmas tree. This was in the early 1970's but Mom and Dad were products of the depression and the 1950's and they didn't change things up very much : /
 
2013-04-25 11:13:07 AM

Amos Quito: Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?


How exactly do you think that bringing the link where you show exactly what you think about JFK's "accident" (in your, uh, genius insinuation technique)  literally proving that i'm right about your conspiracy bullshiat, constitute as proof that i'm lying ? i'm honestly curious how you rationalize this to yourself.
 
2013-04-25 11:16:49 AM

TappingTheVein: Amos Quito: Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?

How exactly do you think that bringing the link where you show exactly what you think about JFK's "accident" (in your, uh, genius insinuation technique)  literally proving that i'm right about your conspiracy bullshiat, constitute as proof that i'm lying ? i'm honestly curious how you rationalize this to yourself.


You are obviously part of the cover-up, Tapping. Nice try, COMRADE.
 
2013-04-25 11:25:36 AM

Amos Quito: log_jammin: TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.

why does that not surprise me.


Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?


Oh I clicked the link alright. You calling his comment a lie is about as Orwellian as it gets.
 
2013-04-25 11:47:21 AM

mbillips: log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.

OK, this is complete and utter bullshiat. Iran-Contra was not a conspiracy theory before it came out. Neither was MK-Ultra. Neither was the Tuskegee experiment.


Not arguing with you on this. However, the fact that the government actually did these types of nefarious activities serves as fuel for other, more outrageous, conspiracy theories. Once you catch someone intentionally lying to you, it's difficult to believe anything they tell you afterward.

It certainly didn't help when the Bush administration came up with the idea of a Department of Misinformation after 9/11. That was probably the worst PR blunder on the part of the government I've ever seen. These kind of actions sow the seeds of legitimate doubt and erode the public trust, which creates a line of thought where "well, they did X, what's to stop them from doing Y and Z?" It's compounded by the fact that once people latch on to a spurious claim, it can be very difficult to shake them loose from it, no matter how overwhelming the facts to the contrary may be.
 
2013-04-25 11:51:36 AM

MacWizard: mbillips: log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.

OK, this is complete and utter bullshiat. Iran-Contra was not a conspiracy theory before it came out. Neither was MK-Ultra. Neither was the Tuskegee experiment.

Not arguing with you on this. However, the fact that the government actually did these types of nefarious activities serves as fuel for other, more outrageous, conspiracy theories. Once you catch someone intentionally lying to you, it's difficult to believe anything they tell you afterward.

It certainly didn't help when the Bush administration came up with the idea of a Department of Misinformation after 9/11. That was probably the worst PR blunder on the part of the government I've ever seen. These kind of actions sow the seeds of legitimate doubt and erode the public trust, which creates a line of thought where "well, they did X, what's to stop them from doing Y and Z?" It's compounded by the fact that once people latch on to a spurious claim, it can be very difficult to shake them loose from it, no matter how overwhelming the facts to the contrary may be.


Yes but when the connection between "X" and "Z" are just preposterous it's hard to take a conspiracy loon seriously.
 
2013-04-25 12:32:24 PM

hardinparamedic: [i246.photobucket.com image 631x423]

What does this mean?  I've Googled and can't find any reference to it.

 
2013-04-25 01:05:37 PM
Nevermind.  I found it.  Interesting!!
 
2013-04-25 03:48:38 PM

log_jammin: UnspokenVoice: I have, for the most part, only normal friends. I dated a chick who was into the various theories but she wasn't really a believer, she was just amused. My father, on the other hand... He's a chemtrail, 9/11, false flag (even if the ongoing news is still only five minutes into a news event and has no true details), and wide scale weather/geological manipulation. He's 189 years old (it seems) and I humor him for a bit at times but he mostly leaves me alone with them.

between my best friend wanting to buy one of those "ionizing" bracelet things, and my brother who now thinks the Mayans come from Georgia but main stream science is keeping it a secret(He seen it on the discovery channel so it has to be true, and anything I show him to the contrary is wrong because it came from the internet and you can't believe what you see on the internet) add to the usual gang of bible types, I'm losing that last little bit of compassion for humanity.


I suspect we have always been stupid.
 
2013-04-25 04:58:55 PM
Hi guys!  What's this thread about?

joehistorian.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-25 07:31:00 PM
I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn't believe anything.
 
2013-04-25 10:59:42 PM

log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.

Everything that was discovered about MK-ULTRA? or every conspiracy in general?

either way I'm still not sure what your point is. Since there was a rumor about the CIA giving people LSD and testing if mind control was possible, and it later turned out that some of those rumors were true, then all conspiracy theories have merit and the idea that lizard people control the government should be given equal weight with the idea that the CIA does disinformation campaigns? Is that what you're trying to say?



No, not at all. The point I was trying to make was that if you mention something like MK-ULTRA then people will jump to saying you must believe in lizard people, faked moon landings, etc, which of course is reductio ad absurdum.

Just because some people can't engage in critical thought and slot information to suit their narrative doesn't mean people in positions of power don't conspire and get away with it.
 
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