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(Salon)   Psychologist says that people believe in conspiracy theories so they can "have a sense of control." Of course that's what they want you to believe   (salon.com) divider line 187
    More: PSA, University of Western Australia, political lines  
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2974 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2013 at 12:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 06:57:26 PM  
It's a coping mechanism
 
2013-04-24 07:03:01 PM  

cretinbob: It's a coping mechanism


Sure, but who controls the "mechanism"? Didn't think about that didya!
 
2013-04-24 07:28:09 PM  
That's the kind of limited thinking I expect out of sheeple.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
 
2013-04-24 07:46:34 PM  
Study it out.
 
2013-04-24 07:48:56 PM  
This is a false flag operation. It says Salon, but American Thinker is really behind it. Need proof?

FTFA - "I don't think there is a systematic association between political views and the propensity to believe in conspiracy theories. There are some studies that suggest people on the political left are inclined to it, and there are some that suggest people on the right are. But it's always a weak association. "
 
2013-04-24 09:04:32 PM  
All you really need to be in control is an ignore list.
 
2013-04-24 09:06:30 PM  

Fano: That's the kind of limited thinking I expect out of sheeple.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!


WHAT HAVE YOU DONE, YOU BASTARD!!!!

www.tragnark.com

Or, it could be the fact that we've evolved to have conspiratorial, irrational beliefs and religious fantasies as part of our brain's development. You're never going to take those out of human society unless you remove the temporal lobe at birth in every person, or we evolve to a different neurological structure.

MrBallou: This is a false flag operation. It says Salon, but American Thinker is really behind it. Need proof?

FTFA - "I don't think there is a systematic association between political views and the propensity to believe in conspiracy theories. There are some studies that suggest people on the political left are inclined to it, and there are some that suggest people on the right are. But it's always a weak association. "


Politics are only involved in so far as what general theme of derp one is willing to believe. Those on the right are more willing to see evil communists or globalists, and stick to strong nationalistic theories, while those on the left are the ones you most commonly see being involved in things like 9/11 Trutherism, and Boston Bombing derp. Those on the right also are most common to adhere to racial superiority theories.

And then you have some themes that are apolitical, like anti-vaccination or anti-medicine.
 
2013-04-24 09:08:46 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: All you really need to be in control is an ignore list.


Ignore doesn't work when people in real life making real decisions believe this crap.
 
2013-04-24 09:25:43 PM  
I don't think there is a systematic association between political views and the propensity to believe in conspiracy theories. There are some studies that suggest people on the political left are inclined to it, and there are some that suggest people on the right are. But it's always a weak association. There are some theories that appeal to only one side, however. For example, the idea that 9/11 was an inside job was fairly common among Democrats in the early part of the 2000s, and very few Republicans believed it at the time. But conversely, the idea that the U.N. is trying to create a world government is predominantly held by people on the right, but not at all by people on the political left. So it really doesn't depend on politics.

Conspiracy theory websites have all basically bled into each other over the last 10 years, so certain theories have essentially become "canon" to everyone who follows them in general.   It's gotten to the point that every single horrible incident in the world from school shootings (mind control/false flag) to earthquakes (HAARP) are now immediately accepted into the larger narrative the moment they hit the news.

What seems to be happening though is the conspiracy theorist websites say conclusively that the attack was a deliberate move by a shadowy cabal somewhere, but their actual motives are usually part of a broad movement that is impossible to pin down exactly.  So the Boston bombing was an attack to begin to start getting a gun crack down to disarm everyone, but the actual details of what the one world government that takes over will be like are vague.  At best, they just make it sound like a post-Apocalyptic waste land.  That leaves the ultimate slant of the shadowy group up for interpretation, because the conspiracy theory websites only vaguely go into detail about the people running the show in their world or what they truly want other than just control.  Conservatives will think that the UN is going to conquer the world and some Biblical Villain will rule it, while Liberals think that there is some group of Bush Cabinet members plotting to set up a bunch of perpetual wars 1984 style.

Then all of it shows up on central places like Alex Jones, which is followed by both sides.  I know it's a little more right leaning now, but plenty of my fellow libs were taking that shiat seriously when Bush was in office.  Since the true final motives are often open to interpretation, the different sides just fill in the rest of the narrative along their own political bent.  That is my take on how it actually works in practice.

/I occasionally read them out of curiosity - lately it has mainly been to try to follow laws passed by Middle American legislatures - and that seems to be how it works
 
2013-04-24 09:30:04 PM  
i246.photobucket.com

Care should be taken around Class 2s. They can become very violent if their beliefs are questioned, and tend to act out against others.
 
2013-04-24 09:31:53 PM  

scottydoesntknow: cretinbob: It's a coping mechanism

Sure, but who controls the "mechanism"? Didn't think about that didya!


img248.imageshack.us

He's controlled it since the Great Alfie War of 1985.  Prior to that, of course, Alfie controlled it.
 
2013-04-24 09:36:00 PM  
The Boston bombing was a conspiracy. The FBI currently has a conspiracy theory about it. They will charge the guy with conspiracy. If they win their case it will be a proven conspiracy. What's with the FBI and all their "conspiratorial thinking?"
 
2013-04-24 09:40:51 PM  
Follow the money... Which corporation financed this study? Find out who's trying to convince you there's no conspiracy. That's where you'll find the REAL conspiracy.
 
2013-04-24 09:47:07 PM  

hardinparamedic: Fano: That's the kind of limited thinking I expect out of sheeple.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE, YOU BASTARD!!!!

[www.tragnark.com image 350x217]

Or, it could be the fact that we've evolved to have conspiratorial, irrational beliefs and religious fantasies as part of our brain's development. You're never going to take those out of human society unless you remove the temporal lobe at birth in every person, or we evolve to a different neurological structure.

MrBallou: This is a false flag operation. It says Salon, but American Thinker is really behind it. Need proof?

FTFA - "I don't think there is a systematic association between political views and the propensity to believe in conspiracy theories. There are some studies that suggest people on the political left are inclined to it, and there are some that suggest people on the right are. But it's always a weak association. "

Politics are only involved in so far as what general theme of derp one is willing to believe. Those on the right are more willing to see evil communists or globalists, and stick to strong nationalistic theories, while those on the left are the ones you most commonly see being involved in things like 9/11 Trutherism, and Boston Bombing derp. Those on the right also are most common to adhere to racial superiority theories.

And then you have some themes that are apolitical, like anti-vaccination or anti-medicine.


I agree to all this. And the article makes plenty of sense to me too. Human minds seem configured to find patterns where there are none. I cannot award partisan points because as you say, the only thing that varies is the flavor of the conspiracy. Intelligence doesn't matter too much because the smarter folks that believe in conspiracies just use more sophisticated and subtle pattern recognition. I know that I've talked to what I consider well-educated people that, when you get them on the "right subject," start saying things like "the Zionists and the Bilderbergers meet regularly to develop world policy, you know that, right?"

I think it is a reaction to make sense of a senseless world. What's sanity, anyway? A one trick pony. All it gives you is rational thought. But when you're good and crazy, woohooHOO, the sky's the limit. Not to say that folks that believe in conspiracies are necessarily crazy.

What's interesting to me is the vortex of crazy when conspiracy nuts get together. Listening to the old Art Bell show was amazing, because some episodes would sound like the time Bart had everyone together and talks about how the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people and the reverse vampires..." I mean to say that among the conspiracy nuts there seemed to be an unspoken rule not to shiat on other conspiracies, just to wad them all together, even the mutually contradictory ones. It's amazing the things people can convince themselves to believe. Which monarch in Wonderland was the one that could hold multiple contradictory thoughts at once? Like that.
 
2013-04-24 09:51:51 PM  

Fano: What's interesting to me is the vortex of crazy when conspiracy nuts get together. Listening to the old Art Bell show was amazing, because some episodes would sound like the time Bart had everyone together and talks about how the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people and the reverse vampires..." I mean to say that among the conspiracy nuts there seemed to be an unspoken rule not to shiat on other conspiracies, just to wad them all together, even the mutually contradictory ones. It's amazing the things people can convince themselves to believe. Which monarch in Wonderland was the one that could hold multiple contradictory thoughts at once? Like that.


It's still hilarious to listen to, especially when George Norrie takes the head. I sometimes have to remind myself I'm not listening to the Onion.

Don't judge me. In some of the areas I transport in, we have two and a half hour one way drives. North Mississippi has an abundance of AM radio and Country FM stations. Since I hate the later, the former tend to amuse me since my boss won't let us install a Sirius in the ground trucks.
 
2013-04-24 10:02:44 PM  

cretinbob: It's a coping mechanism


Maybe, but it's a HIGHLY destructive one.
 
2013-04-24 10:05:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: Fano: What's interesting to me is the vortex of crazy when conspiracy nuts get together. Listening to the old Art Bell show was amazing, because some episodes would sound like the time Bart had everyone together and talks about how the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people and the reverse vampires..." I mean to say that among the conspiracy nuts there seemed to be an unspoken rule not to shiat on other conspiracies, just to wad them all together, even the mutually contradictory ones. It's amazing the things people can convince themselves to believe. Which monarch in Wonderland was the one that could hold multiple contradictory thoughts at once? Like that.

It's still hilarious to listen to, especially when George Norrie takes the head. I sometimes have to remind myself I'm not listening to the Onion.

Don't judge me. In some of the areas I transport in, we have two and a half hour one way drives. North Mississippi has an abundance of AM radio and Country FM stations. Since I hate the later, the former tend to amuse me since my boss won't let us install a Sirius in the ground trucks.


When I was studying optometry in Memphis, Coast to Coast was my go to for the trip back from Beale. It added something at that unreal hour to listen to some genuine crazy talk. Always entertaining. I can't judge you for it, I can't imagine anything else better suited for the wee hours of the morning.

/The tips of shoelaces are called aglets. Their purpose... is sinister.
 
2013-04-24 10:07:04 PM  

Fano: When I was studying optometry in Memphis, Coast to Coast was my go to for the trip back from Beale. It added something at that unreal hour to listen to some genuine crazy talk. Always entertaining. I can't judge you for it, I can't imagine anything else better suited for the wee hours of the morning.

/The tips of shoelaces are called aglets. Their purpose... is sinister.


Southern College of Optometry or UT Medical? I used to live off of Pauline and Monroe in the Apartment complex there, so I had neighbors that went to both schools.

I always like it when they talk about the Shadow People. I try to play the game of "Meth Addict or Mentally Ill".
 
2013-04-24 10:09:18 PM  

hardinparamedic: Fano: When I was studying optometry in Memphis, Coast to Coast was my go to for the trip back from Beale. It added something at that unreal hour to listen to some genuine crazy talk. Always entertaining. I can't judge you for it, I can't imagine anything else better suited for the wee hours of the morning.

/The tips of shoelaces are called aglets. Their purpose... is sinister.

Southern College of Optometry or UT Medical? I used to live off of Pauline and Monroe in the Apartment complex there, so I had neighbors that went to both schools.

I always like it when they talk about the Shadow People. I try to play the game of "Meth Addict or Mentally Ill".


Southern.

I lived at the Cabanas for some time then off Central. Still miss Central BBQ. Still think the city should be wiped from the map. You're good people, though.
 
2013-04-24 10:14:39 PM  
The halls of corporate and political power are generally incorruptible, guileless and represented to the public by the media in a forthright fashion. People who question it are mentally ill.
 
2013-04-24 10:17:19 PM  

Fano: lived at the Cabanas for some time then off Central. Still miss Central BBQ. Still think the city should be wiped from the map. You're good people, though.


Just nuke everything North and south of the 240 loop. Midtown and Cordova would be left, and it'd be a nice place to live. :)
 
2013-04-24 10:22:58 PM  

Ambivalence: cretinbob: It's a coping mechanism

Maybe, but it's a HIGHLY destructive one


Correct. Not all coping mechanisms are positive, or effective.
 
2013-04-24 11:22:58 PM  
We've found out and arrested conspirators in this country. It's not like conspirators are unicorns or anything.
 
2013-04-25 12:20:42 AM  
Sure it gives me control. MIND CONTROL. Just like what the government is using against me. But I'm much too clever for that.
 
2013-04-25 12:21:33 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: All you really need to be in control is an ignore list.


So much THIS. You read my mind,
 
2013-04-25 12:23:51 AM  
The reason people beleive conspiracy theories is because they have caught the govt and media lieing to them so many times.
 
2013-04-25 12:25:11 AM  

jaylectricity: We've found out and arrested conspirators in this country. It's not like conspirators are unicorns or anything.


Human history is absolutely rife with conspiracies. This recent notion being forced on the public that you have to be crazy to believe they happen is rather, suspicious.
 
2013-04-25 12:25:26 AM  
It's on Salon.com is it really worth reading?
 
2013-04-25 12:26:29 AM  
People are stupid and will believe anything, either because they want it to be true or they are afraid that it might be true. -- Wizards First Rule

But I do think its funny that conspiracies only became "crazy" on or around January 20th 2009.
 
2013-04-25 12:28:33 AM  
When a former president of the United States claims he can't recall where he was when JFK was killed, that isn't a conspiracy theory. That's just plain scary.

I've said too much....
 
2013-04-25 12:29:19 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: Human history is absolutely rife with conspiracies. This recent notion being forced on the public that you have to be crazy to believe they happen is rather, suspicious.


And this is what is known as the vindication of all kooks corollary to the theory of crank magnetism.

Just because some idiot proposed Operation Northwood doesn't mean it happened. Just because Tuskegee occurred does not mean that the Government perpetrated the 9/11 attacks. Just because Iran-Contra happened, does not mean that the Reptilian Overlords are using vaccinations to cause your precious little snowflake to have autism and rambunctious behavior.
 
2013-04-25 12:31:24 AM  
This just in:  Overclocked ape brains sometimes have trouble processing the stimuli of accelerating technological advancement.  See also:  organized religion existing in an age when it should be treated as the primitive mythology it is.
 
2013-04-25 12:32:04 AM  
I think we are conditioned to believe that there is order in the universe and life.  It is why we believe in fate, destiny, karma, high powers, etc.  We would feel really lost if things weren't in our control.  It maybe the only way we stay sane is knowing that somewhere, someone or something has some kind of control.
 
2013-04-25 12:33:51 AM  
It's obvious but bears repeating... not all conspiracy theories are of equal value, but with the internet, even the most worthless and moronic idea gets play.
 
2013-04-25 12:34:27 AM  

randomjsa: But I do think its funny that conspiracies only became "crazy" on or around January 20th 2009.


Says who?
 
2013-04-25 12:37:12 AM  
I'll also add that anyone who mocks conspiracy theorists should have their wife cheat on them with their best friend for years. Weaving an elaborate web of lies and having thousands of covert bangings, right under their nose. It will be all the more easier because whenever they begin to suspect something, they'll stop themselves because they don't want to be a 'crazy' conspiracy theorist.
 
2013-04-25 12:38:27 AM  

Fano: hardinparamedic: Fano: When I was studying optometry in Memphis, Coast to Coast was my go to for the trip back from Beale. It added something at that unreal hour to listen to some genuine crazy talk. Always entertaining. I can't judge you for it, I can't imagine anything else better suited for the wee hours of the morning.

/The tips of shoelaces are called aglets. Their purpose... is sinister.

Southern College of Optometry or UT Medical? I used to live off of Pauline and Monroe in the Apartment complex there, so I had neighbors that went to both schools.

I always like it when they talk about the Shadow People. I try to play the game of "Meth Addict or Mentally Ill".

Southern.

I lived at the Cabanas for some time then off Central. Still miss Central BBQ. Still think the city should be wiped from the map. You're good people, though.


So move the people, move Central BBQ, and firebomb the city?
 
2013-04-25 12:41:15 AM  

Precision Boobery: organized religion existing in an age when it should be treated as the primitive mythology it is.


We Need a Whole Lot More of Jesus (and a Lot Less Rock and Roll)
 
2013-04-25 12:41:38 AM  
I believe in conspiracy theories because the Illuminati mind controlled me into doing it.
 
2013-04-25 12:41:42 AM  
If you've been involved in power systems for any decent length of time, you learn two things:

1) People are almost always plotting something in secret, and
2) Random, unpredictable shiat happens from time to time and for no good reason
 
2013-04-25 12:42:02 AM  

hardinparamedic: BarkingUnicorn: All you really need to be in control is an ignore list.

Ignore doesn't work when people in real life making real decisions believe this crap.



What crap?
 
2013-04-25 12:42:26 AM  
I'm "Friends" with a dude on Facebook whose feed is typically normal, but goes batsh-- anytime something scary happens in the news. Among the "conspiracies" he's spreading the word about:

*Newtown: the grieving parents are apparently "actors." I'm unsure if he thinks the dead kids are fake or real.
*Boston bombing: the culprits' backpacks "don't match" surveillance photos and pressure cookers are apparently too big to fit inside backpacks at all.
*Airplane contrails or "chemtrails," which he uncovered after listening to a conspiracy theory radio show with a "former member of the government" on as a guest.

I'm beginning to think he's mentally ill.
 
2013-04-25 12:44:11 AM  

Amos Quito: What crap?


Agenda 21, Vaccines as Population Control, Reptile Aliens controlling the Earth, secret UN Armies, FEMA Concentration Camps, 9/11 was a false flag/holographic missile...

These are generally things which can be called crap.

J. Frank Parnell: I'll also add that anyone who mocks conspiracy theorists should have their wife cheat on them with their best friend for years. Weaving an elaborate web of lies and having thousands of covert bangings, right under their nose. It will be all the more easier because whenever they begin to suspect something, they'll stop themselves because they don't want to be a 'crazy' conspiracy theorist.


So your response to it being pointed out that you're so full of crap it's dripping from your ears is to equate your wife cheating on you with, say, 9-11 Trutherism?
 
2013-04-25 12:44:46 AM  
I think a distinction should be drawn between healthy skepticism and tin foil hat wearing.

And farking clinical psychologists.  Yeah, the U.S. produce a lot of college graduates, but most of them have worthless degrees.  We probably award more psychology degrees than the rest of the world combined and this is how we end up wit research like this.  Meanwhile, the Chinese are kicking our ass in STEM.  Go to any university and poll the white students and Asian students about what their major is.  I think you will see a pretty clear distinction..
 
2013-04-25 12:47:01 AM  

Pumpernickel bread: And farking clinical psychologists.  Yeah, the U.S. produce a lot of college graduates, but most of them have worthless degrees.  We probably award more psychology degrees than the rest of the world combined and this is how we end up wit research like this.  Meanwhile, the Chinese are kicking our ass in STEM.  Go to any university and poll the white students and Asian students about what their major is.  I think you will see a pretty clear distinction..


Big farking deal. As long as we have Peruvians, we are doing okay. You see, they like to swoop in and save the day at the last minute.

And they can shoot laser beams from their eyes.

content6.flixster.com

In other news, Depression hits losers the hardest.
 
2013-04-25 12:50:05 AM  
www.syti.net

Control? For what end? Who stands to gain? Whose control?
 
2013-04-25 12:50:07 AM  
I've always thought that things do not happen "for a reason" and there is no such thing as fate or karma.  The universe is a cold, unfeeling place ("feelings" after all are just a series of chemical reactions in biological structures) and it is only by sheer accident that life in general and you in particular exist and survive.  I also think that after death there is literally nothing, but the brain has a difficult time imagining its own non-existence.

The fact that I find this notion unappealing has always seemed to me an indication that it is likely to be true.
 
2013-04-25 12:50:31 AM  
There have been conspiracy theories as long as humans have been humans.
 
2013-04-25 12:51:11 AM  

Wayne 985: a "former member of the government"


That could be ol' Bob who used to work at the Post Office. I was looking at a particular site that had some interesting, authoritative post from a guy with some fancy letters and a (Ret.) after his name. I got curious and goggled it, and he was (according to the abbreviated "rank") a Customs officer, GS-7 up to GS-9.
 
2013-04-25 12:52:20 AM  
I know the good doctor said conspiracy theory believers are spread across intelligence levels, but it's been my observation that people who believe in conspiracy theories tend to think they're smarter than everyone else. All of us dummies fall for the official story, but Mr. Inside Info knows the real story. You weren't dumb enough to believe the Boston bombers were throwing explosive out of their vehicle, were you? Ha Ha, you're so gullible. I figured they liked it because they weren't so smart but it made them feel smart.
 
2013-04-25 12:53:42 AM  
I'm about to tell you all something that will blow your minds....

There is no Pepe Silvia.
 
2013-04-25 12:54:45 AM  
CONSPIRACY FACT: 19 hijackers armed with box cutters directed by OBL commandeered planes and brought down WTC 1, 2, 7 and damaged the Pentagon.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: That any factor other than the above may have been involved.

CONSPIRACY FACT: That Saddam Hussein was deeply involved with Al-Qaeda ,and helped orchestrate 9-11. He also had WMD's and could "strike Israel" in as little as 40 minutes.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: Anything other than the above.


/Are you a "Conspiracy Theorist"?
 
2013-04-25 12:55:26 AM  
Are there certain types of people who are more prone to believing in conspiracy theories than others?

Yes, dumbasses.
 
2013-04-25 12:56:52 AM  
It's funny that this popped up today of all days. I was trolling around on youtube watching those nutty videos about how Obama is a time traveling martian and I saw the name Dr. Courtney Brown listed in some crap talk radio video. Looking over, I thought to myself, "It simply can't be! That was my weird ass professor on stochastic modeling." I kept pulling the sweater and found this gem:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaLMnUybkVA

So it turns out my professor is ALSO the "leading researcher in the field of remote viewing." I thought to myself, "Noooo. Surely a rigorous research institute wouldn't hire some fraud like this." It turns out he runs this money making scheme teaching people to be psychics under the ruse of "scientifically" predicting the future. From what I could make of it, he seems to gather people up and lead them toward conclusions. The viewer is told to make some statement about what a certain place looks like in the future or past. Rinse and repeat until you have a ton of random statements about events. Then my former professor sifts through the predictions and finds ones that are "accurate" in so far as that they got some details in their made up timeline correct. He then uses the claims that they made about the future/past as predictions and calls this evidence that remote viewing is real.

The crazy is strong these days, and it freaks me out that so many people can delude themselves to nonsense so quickly.
 
2013-04-25 12:57:13 AM  

hardinparamedic: So your response to it being pointed out that you're so full of crap it's dripping from your ears is to equate your wife cheating on you with, say, 9-11 Trutherism?


i3.kym-cdn.com

Putting your cognitive dissonance aside, this isn't about any particular conspiracy. Just how people, probably like yourself, dismiss them as possibilities because they're conspiracies, as if such things never happen.
 
2013-04-25 12:58:33 AM  
What's a more entertaining perspective on life?

1. I'm a completely unremarkable member of the human race; an actor in nature's grand game of chance where a few of us hit it big, but most of us toil in obscurity.

Or

2. I'm among the privileged few who are aware of the sinister forces of power controlling everything. My life may suck, but I can blame the Illuminati/Rothschild/Bilderberger alliance for keeping me from reaching my full potential. I'll fight the New World Order till my dying breath!
 
2013-04-25 01:00:16 AM  
there is also the desire to believe that someone, somewhere, actually knows what they are doing
 
2013-04-25 01:01:34 AM  
People need to matter, but they also don't want to take a lot of responsibility.  Conspiracy theories fit the bill!

I am important because I know "the truth."  It is such a big truth that I am not responsible for it and don't have to control it.
 
2013-04-25 01:03:41 AM  
If only we had some kind of special sunglasses that would let us see what was really going on in the world around us.

www.jnack.com
 
2013-04-25 01:03:52 AM  

bootmoop: Looking over, I thought to myself, "It simply can't be! That was my weird ass professor on stochastic modeling."


Have you seen what Ben Stein is up to?
 
2013-04-25 01:05:58 AM  

hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: What crap?

Agenda 21, Vaccines as Population Control, Reptile Aliens controlling the Earth, secret UN Armies, FEMA Concentration Camps, 9/11 was a false flag/holographic missile...

These are generally things which can be called crap.


Do YOU believe that Saddam was involved in 9-11?

That he had WMD's?

That he could "Strike Israel in 40 minutes, hardinparamedic?


Do you believe everything that BushCo told us as we went to war with Iraq?

Because if not, you're a reptilian believing "Conspiracy Theorist" - armed with band-aids.
 
2013-04-25 01:06:19 AM  
UsikFark:Have you seen what Ben Stein is up to?

Anything other than denouncing evolution and periodically making an ass out of himself?
 
2013-04-25 01:06:38 AM  

bindlestiff2600: there is also the desire to believe that someone, somewhere, actually knows what they are doing


This impulse is so interwoven in the fabric of our DNA that, frankly, it'll probably take another 20,000 years of human evolution to get rid of it. At the minimum.
 
2013-04-25 01:13:22 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: how people, probably like yourself, dismiss them as possibilities because they're conspiracies


people dismiss them as conspiracies because there is no evidence to back them.

People who believe in conspiracies start with a conclusion and look for things to back that conclusion. They don't go where the evidence takes them.
 
2013-04-25 01:13:48 AM  
Conspiracy theorists make a fundamental mistake in assuming that power needs to hide itself from an intellectually lazy public.

There's really no need to conceal misdeeds from people who are too stupid and deferential to care in the first place.
 
2013-04-25 01:14:59 AM  

Amos Quito: hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: What crap?

Agenda 21, Vaccines as Population Control, Reptile Aliens controlling the Earth, secret UN Armies, FEMA Concentration Camps, 9/11 was a false flag/holographic missile...

These are generally things which can be called crap.

Do YOU believe that Saddam was involved in 9-11?

That he had WMD's?

That he could "Strike Israel in 40 minutes, hardinparamedic?


Do you believe everything that BushCo told us as we went to war with Iraq?

Because if not, you're a reptilian believing "Conspiracy Theorist" - armed with band-aids.


False dilemma. try again.
 
2013-04-25 01:16:46 AM  

hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: What crap?

Agenda 21, Vaccines as Population Control, Reptile Aliens controlling the Earth, secret UN Armies, FEMA Concentration Camps, 9/11 was a false flag/holographic missile...

These are generally things which can be called crap.

J. Frank Parnell: I'll also add that anyone who mocks conspiracy theorists should have their wife cheat on them with their best friend for years. Weaving an elaborate web of lies and having thousands of covert bangings, right under their nose. It will be all the more easier because whenever they begin to suspect something, they'll stop themselves because they don't want to be a 'crazy' conspiracy theorist.

So your response to it being pointed out that you're so full of crap it's dripping from your ears is to equate your wife cheating on you with, say, 9-11 Trutherism?



You tell 'em, hardinparamedic!

Anyone who doesn't blindly believe that the Reichstag Fire  was caused by Communist Jews deserves to be gassed!
 
2013-04-25 01:17:59 AM  

log_jammin: Amos Quito: hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: What crap?

Agenda 21, Vaccines as Population Control, Reptile Aliens controlling the Earth, secret UN Armies, FEMA Concentration Camps, 9/11 was a false flag/holographic missile...

These are generally things which can be called crap.

Do YOU believe that Saddam was involved in 9-11?

That he had WMD's?

That he could "Strike Israel in 40 minutes, hardinparamedic?


Do you believe everything that BushCo told us as we went to war with Iraq?

Because if not, you're a reptilian believing "Conspiracy Theorist" - armed with band-aids.

False dilemma. try again.



Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

Prove it.
 
2013-04-25 01:18:43 AM  
I'm going to go with because so many different conspiracies have been revealed/confirmed. It doesn't mean that all conspiracy theories are true but most of the big rocks in space miss our planet. Most of them, but not all.

Crazy things get easier and easier to believe the more absolutely insane things you find out really did happen. Especially when you look up Project MKUltra.
 
2013-04-25 01:18:52 AM  

log_jammin: J. Frank Parnell: how people, probably like yourself, dismiss them as possibilities because they're conspiracies

people dismiss them as conspiracies because there is no evidence to back them.

People who believe in conspiracies start with a conclusion and look for things to back that conclusion. They don't go where the evidence takes them.


log_jammin, I think it is worse than that. Conspiracy theorists' nutty conclusions tend to be what they work toward, but as they work toward it everything they touch turns into crap because they are clearly crazy people. There are several radar accounts and visual citings of UFO's for instance but there is never going to be any legitimate inquiry using a scientific approach as long as they are going to be associated with the Ancient Aliens cast or Steven Greer.
 
2013-04-25 01:20:12 AM  

Zeppelininthesky: There have been conspiracy theories as long as humans have been humans.


The human who thinks every rustling in the grass is an approaching predator may live longer than one who thinks it's just the wind.
Of course, there's a lot of things that were helpful to us as paleolithic hunter-gatherers that actually aren't any more.

iaazathot: People need to matter, but they also don't want to take a lot of responsibility.  Conspiracy theories fit the bill!

I am important because I know "the truth."  It is such a big truth that I am not responsible for it and don't have to control it.


And, of course, this - the delusions of persecution are always accompanied by delusions of grandeur.
 
2013-04-25 01:20:29 AM  

Amos Quito: Anyone who doesn't blindly believe that the Reichstag Fire was caused by Communist Jews deserves to be gassed!


so your argument is, if there really was a conspiracy to seize power by setting the Reichstag Fire then blaming the jews on it, then Reptilians must control us all and plan on sending us to FEMA camps.
 
2013-04-25 01:22:18 AM  

Amos Quito: Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.


That's because you're an idiot. If you weren't you would that a logical fallacy is in no way the same thing as a conspiracy theory.
 
2013-04-25 01:22:44 AM  
This is genuinely a problem for democratic governments today, so much so that they have top men working on it.
 
2013-04-25 01:22:51 AM  

contrapunctus: Conspiracy theorists make a fundamental mistake in assuming that power needs to hide itself from an intellectually lazy public.

There's really no need to conceal misdeeds from people who are too stupid and deferential to care in the first place.


This - if you can keep them asking the right questions, you needn't worry about the answers. People are stupid, and don't have to be deceived - they are more than capable of deceiving themselves.
 
2013-04-25 01:24:49 AM  

bootmoop: There are several radar accounts and visual citings of UFO's for instance but there is never going to be any legitimate inquiry using a scientific approach


I understand what you're saying, but there absolutely is legitimate inquiry into those events. It's just that there is no evidence to conclude that anything "alien" caused them.
 
2013-04-25 01:26:38 AM  
It's the same reason people believe in religions.  Praying makes it seem like you're doing something useful.
 
2013-04-25 01:27:08 AM  

log_jammin: people dismiss them as conspiracies because there is no evidence to back them.


But they rarely even try to discuss it rationally. Just dismiss them on the grounds that they're conspiracy theories, and begin mocking and insulting like that fellow did.

Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.
 
2013-04-25 01:30:32 AM  

iaazathot: People need to matter, but they also don't want to take a lot of responsibility.  Conspiracy theories fit the bill!

I am important because I know "the truth."  It is such a big truth that I am not responsible for it and don't have to control it.


Good answer, good answer.
 
2013-04-25 01:31:03 AM  

hardinparamedic: J. Frank Parnell: Human history is absolutely rife with conspiracies. This recent notion being forced on the public that you have to be crazy to believe they happen is rather, suspicious.

And this is what is known as the vindication of all kooks corollary to the theory of crank magnetism.

Just because some idiot proposed Operation Northwood doesn't mean it happened. Just because Tuskegee occurred does not mean that the Government perpetrated the 9/11 attacks. Just because Iran-Contra happened, does not mean that the Reptilian Overlords are using vaccinations to cause your precious little snowflake to have autism and rambunctious behavior.


People like conspiracy theories not just because it gives them personally control, I think, but because it puts order on the larger face of chaos: it makes it seem like SOMEONE is in control, even if that "someone" is an evil sinister force. The best simple example is TWA 800, when everyone was claiming it was a missile fired from a sub that was being covered up by the Navy. Because which is more reassuring: That it was a deliberately fired missile, or just a random design flaw that could exist in any airplane (as the NTSB report later determined)?

And most large-scale conspiracy theories are like that. People would rather think our government was SO POWERFUL (if evil) that they could manage to coordinate the 9/11 attacks, than that 19 guys funded by a small-scale terrorist group could do it. The former says "we are in control!" and the latter says "things are random". People hate randomness like nature abhors a vacuum.
 
2013-04-25 01:32:03 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: But they rarely even try to discuss it rationally. Just dismiss them on the grounds that they're conspiracy theories, and begin mocking and insulting like that fellow did.

Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.


That is usually because the conspiracy they are wanting to discuss as already been discredited over and over again.
 
2013-04-25 01:32:23 AM  

log_jammin: bootmoop: There are several radar accounts and visual citings of UFO's for instance but there is never going to be any legitimate inquiry using a scientific approach

I understand what you're saying, but there absolutely is legitimate inquiry into those events. It's just that there is no evidence to conclude that anything "alien" caused them.


I'm still unsure that if someone wrote their doctoral thesis considering it and found it to be negative conclusion that they still wouldn't be laughed out of their defense for even wanting to look.
 
2013-04-25 01:33:01 AM  

MrBallou: This is a false flag operation. It says Salon, but American Thinker is really behind it. Need proof?

FTFA - "I don't think there is a systematic association between political views and the propensity to believe in conspiracy theories. There are some studies that suggest people on the political left are inclined to it, and there are some that suggest people on the right are. But it's always a weak association. "


People on the right tend to be less trustful of government, thus they have more reason to believe the government is doing something nefarious.

And when people become less trustful of the government the government becomes less trustful of the people and begins hiding more things. It's a vicious cycle. Described quite well in the forward to this:

images.betterworldbooks.com
 
2013-04-25 01:33:26 AM  

log_jammin: Amos Quito: Anyone who doesn't blindly believe that the Reichstag Fire was caused by Communist Jews deserves to be gassed!

so your argument is, if there really was a conspiracy to seize power by setting the Reichstag Fire then blaming the jews on it, then Reptilians must control us all and plan on sending us to FEMA camps.



^ THIS, folks, is a fine example of a logical fallacy ^


log_jammin: Amos Quito: Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

That's because you're an idiot. If you weren't you would that a logical fallacy is in no way the same thing as a conspiracy theory.

.


While ^ THIS, folks. is a fine example of a pathetic, drunken attempt at  ad hominem weaseling ^


Are those that doubt the veracity of Nazi blame for the Reichstag Fire "conspiracy theorists", or not?

Are those that doubt the veracity of BushCo's excuses for attacking Iraq "conspiracy theorists", or not?

Why or why not?

Address each case individually, if you don't mind.

kthx

;-)
 
2013-04-25 01:33:58 AM  

bindlestiff2600: there is also the desire to believe that someone, somewhere, actually knows what they are doing


This may be the biggest one. The epiphany that brought me to adulthood was realizing the people running the show were no smarter than you or I. I had a panic for about a week realizing that. What a scary thought, that the world is run by, (not people with some crazed and complicated agenda) but just normal people, like you and me, just doing as best they can. (Rewarding themselves and their friends in the process, too, but that's a pretty normal human process too). Of course conspiracies happen. They happen all the time, and sometimes we catch them. But what there isn't is some sort of conspiracy going back some length of time that involves all of humanity in one great scheme.We all secretly dream that all of our lives work to some PURPOSE, and whether for God, or some longer human scheme, it's the same.
 
2013-04-25 01:34:57 AM  

Gyrfalcon: People like conspiracy theories not just because it gives them personally control, I think, but because it puts order on the larger face of chaos: it makes it seem like SOMEONE is in control, even if that "someone" is an evil sinister force.


The personal control comes into play when they "discovery" the massive conspiracy that no one else can see. They are the only ones who can see what that evil sinister force is up to.
 
2013-04-25 01:38:37 AM  
Gyrfalcon: People like conspiracy theories not just because it gives them personally control, I think, but because it puts order on the larger face of chaos: it makes it seem like SOMEONE is in control, even if that "someone" is an evil sinister force.

I think it is more complicated than that. Personally, I love the conspiracy nuts. It adds flavor to what would otherwise be dull and serves my narcissism well. The onlookers all get that happy feeling that they did not metaphorically stick their finger in the electrical socket.
 
2013-04-25 01:38:50 AM  

log_jammin: J. Frank Parnell: But they rarely even try to discuss it rationally. Just dismiss them on the grounds that they're conspiracy theories, and begin mocking and insulting like that fellow did.

Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.

That is usually because the conspiracy they are wanting to discuss as already been discredited over and over again.


For the love of Pete, this. "No one ever explained how the Towers came down after being struck by two airplanes. That just doesn't happen to buildings."

*Engineers repeat themselves*, are ignored.
 
2013-04-25 01:42:01 AM  
img41.imageshack.us

Wow, Amos. I'm in awe of the speed in which you filled this thread with shiat.

Perhaps the only redeeming factor you have is that I know you don't believe half the stuff you type, since you contradict yourself from thread to thread just to troll.

But, just for kicks.

Amos Quito: Do YOU believe that Saddam was involved in 9-11?

That he had WMD's?

That he could "Strike Israel in 40 minutes, hardinparamedic?


Do you believe everything that BushCo told us as we went to war with Iraq?

Because if not, you're a reptilian believing "Conspiracy Theorist" - armed with band-aids.


Demonstrable Fact: The intelligence that supported the Invasion of Iraq, and the nationalistic use of the media to beat the drums of war were flawed, and that at best, Bush was mislead by senior advisors, and at worse blatently lied about the Casus Beli.

Blatant Derp with no proof or evidence: The Government did 9/11 because of the above.

One of these things is not like the other, Amos. Try harder.

Amos Quito: Anyone who doesn't blindly believe that the Reichstag Fire  was caused by Communist Jews deserves to be gassed!


Just because Hitler blew up the Reichstag does not mean that the Government used "microthermite" to blow up the Twin Towers, or that JFK was shot by Gray Aliens.

That's the point you seem to miss. Somehow, despite the astounding and overwhelming incompetence and failure to keep even the most minute conspiracy secret due to, at the very least, the human factor involved with keeping a large conspiracy covered up, things like the JFK assassination, the 9/11 Attacks, and FEMA Concentration Camps are able to be kept completely secret and off the books save for the few "clever" enough to see the hidden truth in our world.
 
2013-04-25 01:43:24 AM  

Fano: log_jammin: J. Frank Parnell: But they rarely even try to discuss it rationally. Just dismiss them on the grounds that they're conspiracy theories, and begin mocking and insulting like that fellow did.

Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.

That is usually because the conspiracy they are wanting to discuss as already been discredited over and over again.

For the love of Pete, this. "No one ever explained how the Towers came down after being struck by two airplanes. That just doesn't happen to buildings."

*Engineers repeat themselves*, are ignored.


Its kind of like people who suggest they know more than their doctor who spent decades of her life learning medicine. "Yeah, I hear ya doc, but have you seen this WebMD thread?"
 
2013-04-25 01:44:43 AM  

Fano: That's the kind of limited thinking I expect out of sheeple.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!


imgs.xkcd.com
Damnit.  xkcd tried to warn us.
 
2013-04-25 01:47:35 AM  

jaylectricity: We've found out and arrested conspirators in this country. It's not like conspirators are unicorns or anything.


Yes, they are!  Stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes!
 
2013-04-25 01:47:55 AM  

Fano: log_jammin: J. Frank Parnell: But they rarely even try to discuss it rationally. Just dismiss them on the grounds that they're conspiracy theories, and begin mocking and insulting like that fellow did.

Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.

That is usually because the conspiracy they are wanting to discuss as already been discredited over and over again.

For the love of Pete, this. "No one ever explained how the Towers came down after being struck by two airplanes. That just doesn't happen to buildings."

*Engineers repeat themselves*, are ignored.


Why do you think Dylan Avery released a new "Loose Change" movie every year after he made the last one. It wasn't because he found new evidence. It was because each successive movie was debunked by anyone with a shred of knowledge in the relevant field they're talking about, and he needed something to feed the idiots.
 
2013-04-25 01:48:02 AM  

Amos Quito: ^ THIS, folks, is a fine example of a logical fallacy ^


which one?

Amos Quito: While ^ THIS, folks. is a fine example of a pathetic, drunken attempt at ad hominem weaseling ^


please explain my calling your comment a logical fallacy makes it a conspiracy theory.

Amos Quito: Are those that doubt the veracity of Nazi blame for the Reichstag Fire "conspiracy theorists", or not?

Are those that doubt the veracity of BushCo's excuses for attacking Iraq "conspiracy theorists", or not?

Why or why not?

Address each case individually, if you don't mind.



Those who doubt the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire are indeed conspiracy theorists since all evidence points to the fact that they did start the fire.

Those who doubt/doubted Bush's excuses for attacking Iraq are not conspiracy theorists. They followed the evidence.
 
2013-04-25 01:49:16 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: I'll also add that anyone who mocks conspiracy theorists should have their wife cheat on them with their best friend for years. Weaving an elaborate web of lies and having thousands of covert bangings, right under their nose. It will be all the more easier because whenever they begin to suspect something, they'll stop themselves because they don't want to be a 'crazy' conspiracy theorist.


Folks, I'd listen to the man.  JFP is something of an expert when it comes to conspiracy theories.
 
2013-04-25 01:49:48 AM  

bootmoop: Its kind of like people who suggest they know more than their doctor who spent decades of her life learning medicine. "Yeah, I hear ya doc, but have you seen this WebMD thread?"


when ever I hear "well what do they know" I'm almost always guaranteed to cringe.
 
2013-04-25 01:50:07 AM  

log_jammin: That is usually because the conspiracy they are wanting to discuss as already been discredited over and over again.


When i see someone resort to namecalling and mockery it doesn't make me think they're very intelligent, or are capable of being objectively rational. But to each their own. Someone like Bill O'Reilly frequently gets mad and insults people instead of properly arguing anything they've said, and millions of people think that makes him look correct. Dark times, these are.
 
2013-04-25 01:52:12 AM  
ITT: People who don't know the difference between a "conspiracy", and a "conspiracy theory".
 
2013-04-25 01:52:53 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: When i see someone resort to namecalling and mockery it doesn't make me think they're very intelligent, or are capable of being objectively rational. But to each their own. Someone like Bill O'Reilly frequently gets mad and insults people instead of properly arguing anything they've said, and millions of people think that makes him look correct. Dark times, these are.


Or, it could be the fact that people have addressed the statements and theories you've proposed on everything from 9/11, to Vaccination, to Fluoride so many times that they get tired of hearing you say it, and at that point resort to making fun of you just to keep things interesting.

The fact you think you should be "respected" for saying things that are blatantly wrong, either from wilful or non-wilful ignorance is adorable.

What you are trying to do is invoke the Galileo Gambit - people laughed at him and he was right, after all. But the problem with that is that for you to be the Galileo, it's not enough to be mocked, you also have to be right.
 
2013-04-25 01:57:37 AM  

bootmoop: log_jammin: bootmoop: There are several radar accounts and visual citings of UFO's for instance but there is never going to be any legitimate inquiry using a scientific approach

I understand what you're saying, but there absolutely is legitimate inquiry into those events. It's just that there is no evidence to conclude that anything "alien" caused them.

I'm still unsure that if someone wrote their doctoral thesis considering it and found it to be negative conclusion that they still wouldn't be laughed out of their defense for even wanting to look.


No...it's that a doctoral thesis considering the existence of UFOs as genuinely alien which comes up negative is likely to be entitled "An Inquiry into radar anomalies over the past five decades and possible causes, including extraterrestrial sources"--which is an entirely legitimate thesis and could have entirely legitimate results. However, such a thesis wouldn't be proceeding from the belief that UFOs are space aliens, it would be proceeding from the question "What caused these unusual radar anomalies?" and go from there. This means that ultimately the result would be either Not Alien or at best Undetermined...which is what those anomalies have always been over the decades.

A thesis which was titled "Unmasking the government coverups behind radar anomalies which are really space aliens" would probably be laughed at; not because of its subject necessarily (although it might be) but because it's proceeding from the conclusion: That there are space aliens and the radar signatures are proof of them, which the government is covering up. If that's what you're looking for, that's what you'll find; but it won't be a scientific study. Scientists won't like it, but the public will eat it up with a spoon.
 
2013-04-25 01:57:41 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: When i see someone resort to namecalling and mockery it doesn't make me think they're very intelligent, or are capable of being objectively rational.


when I see someone ignore all evidence that is contrary to their pet theory or justify it with the tired line of "I'm just asking questions" it doesn't make me think they're very intelligent, or are capable of being objectively rational. especially when they do it over and over and over again. Calling Alex Jones an idiot doesn't make his statements in anyway true or give it more validity. and there is more evidence to him being an idiot than thee is to any of his theories.

Not all arguments have merit.
 
2013-04-25 01:57:55 AM  

log_jammin: bootmoop: Its kind of like people who suggest they know more than their doctor who spent decades of her life learning medicine. "Yeah, I hear ya doc, but have you seen this WebMD thread?"

when ever I hear "well what do they know" I'm almost always guaranteed to cringe.


My father pulls that shiat all the time, and it is sickening. He is like 300lbs and stroking out but insists his new age diet is better than farking heart medication. It's a pity. I think everyone is prone to some delusion or another. It's all about keeping your brains tendency to like irrational things inside the realm of fantasy novels, entertainment and video games not in the real world, your work or social views.
 
2013-04-25 01:59:08 AM  

bootmoop: I think everyone is prone to some delusion or another.


of that I have no doubt. myself included.
 
2013-04-25 02:00:45 AM  

Gyrfalcon: bootmoop: log_jammin: bootmoop: There are several radar accounts and visual citings of UFO's for instance but there is never going to be any legitimate inquiry using a scientific approach

I understand what you're saying, but there absolutely is legitimate inquiry into those events. It's just that there is no evidence to conclude that anything "alien" caused them.

I'm still unsure that if someone wrote their doctoral thesis considering it and found it to be negative conclusion that they still wouldn't be laughed out of their defense for even wanting to look.

No...it's that a doctoral thesis considering the existence of UFOs as genuinely alien which comes up negative is likely to be entitled "An Inquiry into radar anomalies over the past five decades and possible causes, including extraterrestrial sources"--which is an entirely legitimate thesis and could have entirely legitimate results. However, such a thesis wouldn't be proceeding from the belief that UFOs are space aliens, it would be proceeding from the question "What caused these unusual radar anomalies?" and go from there. This means that ultimately the result would be either Not Alien or at best Undetermined...which is what those anomalies have always been over the decades.

A thesis which was titled "Unmasking the government coverups behind radar anomalies which are really space aliens" would probably be laughed at; not because of its subject necessarily (although it might be) but because it's proceeding from the conclusion: That there are space aliens and the radar signatures are proof of them, which the government is covering up. If that's what you're looking for, that's what you'll find; but it won't be a scientific study. Scientists won't like it, but the public will eat it up with a spoon.


I agree 100% with you except that in the former case I am still pretty sure you would be looked at as something of a fringe researcher at best.
 
2013-04-25 02:04:09 AM  

bootmoop: UsikFark:Have you seen what Ben Stein is up to?

Anything other than denouncing evolution and periodically making an ass out of himself?


He used to be a legit guy, and probably still is in his area of expertise... for example, the monologues he gives in Ferris Bueller's Day Off are spot-on economics, history, and government without political spin. Technically, tariffs and the Laffer curve are political, but he could have really gone off on them. He was a professor, but not one of Natural History...
 
2013-04-25 02:13:51 AM  

hardinparamedic: Wow, Amos. I'm in awe of the speed in which you filled this thread with shiat.

Perhaps the only redeeming factor you have is that I know you don't believe half the stuff you type, since you contradict yourself from thread to thread just to troll.

But, just for kicks.

Amos Quito: Do YOU believe that Saddam was involved in 9-11?

That he had WMD's?

That he could "Strike Israel in 40 minutes, hardinparamedic?


Do you believe everything that BushCo told us as we went to war with Iraq?

Because if not, you're a reptilian believing "Conspiracy Theorist" - armed with band-aids.

Demonstrable Fact: The intelligence that supported the Invasion of Iraq, and the nationalistic use of the media to beat the drums of war were flawed, and that at best, Bush was mislead by senior advisors, and at worse blatently lied about the Casus Beli.

Blatant Derp with no proof or evidence: The Government did 9/11 because of the above.

One of these things is not like the other, Amos. Try harder.

Amos Quito: Anyone who doesn't blindly believe that the Reichstag Fire  was caused by Communist Jews deserves to be gassed!

Just because Hitler blew up the Reichstag does not mean that the Government used "microthermite" to blow up the Twin Towers, or that JFK was shot by Gray Aliens.

That's the point you seem to miss. Somehow, despite the astounding and overwhelming incompetence and failure to keep even the most minute conspiracy secret due to, at the very least, the human factor involved with keeping a large conspiracy covered up, things like the JFK assassination, the 9/11 Attacks, and FEMA Concentration Camps are able to be kept completely secret and off the books save for the few "clever" enough to see the hidden truth in our world.


THIS was a good comment.
 
2013-04-25 02:19:00 AM  

SirEattonHogg: It's obvious but bears repeating... not all conspiracy theories are of equal value, but with the internet, even the most worthless and moronic idea gets play.


The Internet now allows any kook with a Youtube channel to gain a mass audience of fellow traveling morons. It used to be that you had to actually had a shiatty book published in order to gain some degree of following. Or bother people in the street with a badly xeroxed manifesto.
 
2013-04-25 02:25:23 AM  
 
2013-04-25 02:37:05 AM  

hardinparamedic: Or, it could be the fact that people have addressed the statements and theories you've proposed on everything from 9/11, to Vaccination, to Fluoride so many times that they get tired of hearing you say it, and at that point resort to making fun of you just to keep things interesting.


You're not poking fun, you're being an asshole. I even make fun of myself from time to time, as the 'crazy conspiracy theorist'. Something an ego like yours could never do, but will probably make it a point to do now that i've said that.

And I really don't talk about any of that stuff as much as you seem to think. Probably under a dozen times for each in all my years here. In the last few months you've randomly brought up my belief in those things more than i have, trying to pick a fight. It takes a lot more energy for me to calmly state my opinion fully than it does for someone like you to ignore everything and just call me names, so i can't be bothered a lot of the time. But even if i did talk about them often, why do differing opinions upset you so much? What kind of boring world where everyone agrees with you are you trying to enforce with your nastiness?

UFOs and aliens are my bag, and i've always talked about those a fair bit, but instead of arguing i just direct people to my profile now, where i've gathered some good evidence they can consider. But not surprisingly, those who argue with me don't want to consider it. Still leave it there for anyone curious, or capable of objective thought. I'm not big on talking about myself, anyway, so may as well use the space for something.
 
2013-04-25 02:41:48 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: why do differing opinions upset you so much?


because the differing opinions we are talking about are irrational, misleading, and untrue.
 
2013-04-25 02:44:20 AM  

hardinparamedic: J. Frank Parnell: When i see someone resort to namecalling and mockery it doesn't make me think they're very intelligent, or are capable of being objectively rational. But to each their own. Someone like Bill O'Reilly frequently gets mad and insults people instead of properly arguing anything they've said, and millions of people think that makes him look correct. Dark times, these are.

Or, it could be the fact that people have addressed the statements and theories you've proposed on everything from 9/11, to Vaccination, to Fluoride so many times that they get tired of hearing you say it, and at that point resort to making fun of you just to keep things interesting.

The fact you think you should be "respected" for saying things that are blatantly wrong, either from wilful or non-wilful ignorance is adorable.

What you are trying to do is invoke the Galileo Gambit - people laughed at him and he was right, after all. But the problem with that is that for you to be the Galileo, it's not enough to be mocked, you also have to be right.


My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.
 
2013-04-25 02:45:22 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: You're not poking fun, you're being an asshole. I even make fun of myself from time to time, as the 'crazy conspiracy theorist'. Something an ego like yours could never do, but will probably make it a point to do now that i've said that.

And I really don't talk about any of that stuff as much as you seem to think. Probably under a dozen times for each in all my years here. In the last few months you've randomly brought up my belief in those things more than i have, trying to pick a fight. It takes a lot more energy for me to calmly state my opinion fully than it does for someone like you to ignore everything and just call me names, so i can't be bothered a lot of the time. But even if i did talk about them often, why do differing opinions upset you so much? What kind of boring world where everyone agrees with you are you trying to enforce with your nastiness?


Actually, you're absolutely right on one account. I am being an asshole to you when you go on about nonsense like this repeatedly. And the sad thing is, I'm pretty sure you're a nice guy otherwise. I really don't know what you would expect when you continually make statements which are not only repeatedly debunked, but blatantly wrong on many things. And then repeat them over, and over, and over again.

Frank, if it was one time in a blue moon, I wouldn't even go out of my way to point out how ridiculous you're acting. But it's not one time. It's almost every time we have a thread about vaccination, alternative medicine, fluoride, etc. And the fact that you think that people should have patience with that over and over and over again, after they have meticulously disproved the statements and bad advice you've given people in regards to things that can cause them harm is outrageous, Frank.

The thing that made me come out and be an asshole to you in this thread was your statement that people should have their lives destroyed so that they would believe in conspiracy theories, because they deserve it if they don't. Do you not see, in the least,  how completely outrageous it is to wish that on people because they choose to go with facts and evidence over conjectures and unproven theories with no evidence to support them? Or that they would even be the slight bit offended at things like 9/11 Trutherism, or HIV/AIDS denial, or anti-vaccination?

It's fine to ask questions, Frank. I've got beliefs that would be considered irrational or even questionable. But to expect those beliefs to be treated with the same gravitas and value as those with evidence is silly, Frank.
 
2013-04-25 02:47:09 AM  
Operation Gladio
Operation Northwoods
The Business Plot
The Iran-Contra Affair
The Lavon Affair
MK-ULTRA
 
2013-04-25 02:51:14 AM  

The Repeated Meme: Operation Gladio
Operation Northwoods
The Business Plot
The Iran-Contra Affair
The Lavon Affair
MK-ULTRA


log_jammin: ITT: People who don't know the difference between a "conspiracy", and a "conspiracy theory".

 
2013-04-25 02:54:48 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.


No.
 
2013-04-25 02:55:09 AM  

UnspokenVoice: My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.


along time ago in a fark thread far far away, someone once told me that all the archeological evidence we have from prehistoric man, such as arrowheads and spear tips were used for self defense and not hunting. anything made from bones were either from dead carcasses they stumbled upon or from the animals they were forced to kill(but not eat) in self defense.
 
2013-04-25 02:59:45 AM  

log_jammin: UnspokenVoice: My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.

along time ago in a fark thread far far away, someone once told me that all the archeological evidence we have from prehistoric man, such as arrowheads and spear tips were used for self defense and not hunting. anything made from bones were either from dead carcasses they stumbled upon or from the animals they were forced to kill(but not eat) in self defense.


That is... BEAUTIFUL! Wow. I have never heard anyone make that claim and I'd stifle my laughter and seriously ask someone for some proof of that one. I'd pretend to know nothing of the subject and follow along - just so I can see where that came from.
 
2013-04-25 03:08:08 AM  

UnspokenVoice: That is... BEAUTIFUL!


It really was. He took the "we use to eat less meat 100 years ago" and went as extreme as he could go.
 
2013-04-25 03:08:57 AM  
There are two ways to slide through life without thinking. One is to believe everything, and the other to doubt everything. Sorting out the truth takes diligence and intelligence.
 
2013-04-25 03:11:24 AM  

UnspokenVoice: My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.


When i pointed out cows can also absorb protein from meat, but clearly evolved as purely vegetarian, then used that to prove us being able to absorb protein from it doesn't mean we evolved to? Good times. I'm not even all 'anti-meat'. Was just saying something that is an actual fact, and here you are, mocking me for it.

hardinthehead is misrepresenting and twisting things again, too. I don't think you guys even need me here.to play pretend.
 
2013-04-25 03:14:49 AM  
CRITICAL THINKING ABOUT CONSPIRACY THEORIES
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~j097/CONSP01.htm

"There is no way to defeat UCTs (unwarranted conspiracy theories); the more entrenched they are, the more resistance to disproof they become. Like some malign virus of thinking, they possess the ability to turn their enemies' powers against them, making any supposedly neutral criticism of the CT itself part of the conspiracy."

Great read.
 
2013-04-25 03:18:41 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: to play pretend.


pretend what?
 
2013-04-25 03:21:37 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: UnspokenVoice: My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.

When i pointed out cows can also absorb protein from meat, but clearly evolved as purely vegetarian, then used that to prove us being able to absorb protein from it doesn't mean we evolved to? Good times. I'm not even all 'anti-meat'. Was just saying something that is an actual fact, and here you are, mocking me for it.

hardinthehead is misrepresenting and twisting things again, too. I don't think you guys even need me here.to play pretend.


LOL No. No, not that thread - I must have missed that one. I figured I should save this number...\

6823173

(I number threads where I farky people as a reminder to myself in case the note doesn't make any sense to me.)
 
2013-04-25 03:27:31 AM  

UnspokenVoice: 6823173


oh wow.
 
2013-04-25 03:28:01 AM  

log_jammin: UnspokenVoice: That is... BEAUTIFUL!

It really was. He took the "we use to eat less meat 100 years ago" and went as extreme as he could go.


I have, for the most part, only normal friends. I dated a chick who was into the various theories but she wasn't really a believer, she was just amused. My father, on the other hand... He's a chemtrail, 9/11, false flag (even if the ongoing news is still only five minutes into a news event and has no true details), and wide scale weather/geological manipulation. He's 189 years old (it seems) and I humor him for a bit at times but he mostly leaves me alone with them.
 
2013-04-25 03:30:52 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: UnspokenVoice: My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.

When i pointed out cows can also absorb protein from meat, but clearly evolved as purely vegetarian, then used that to prove us being able to absorb protein from it doesn't mean we evolved to? Good times. I'm not even all 'anti-meat'. Was just saying something that is an actual fact, and here you are, mocking me for it.

hardinthehead is misrepresenting and twisting things again, too. I don't think you guys even need me here.to play pretend.


Of course the fact that humans can digest and absorb protein isn't knock-down proof that humans were meant to eat meat.  Fortunately that's far from the only piece of evidence for that hypothesis.  A much better one, for example, is the fact that there are ten amino acids that are essential to humans (i.e. humans cannot synthesize them), whereas cows have only two.

I do suspect there is at least one person in this thread misrepresenting and twisting arguments - and if hardinparamedic is doing so, then there's at least two.
 
2013-04-25 03:31:20 AM  
wirsindeins.files.wordpress.com

The Truth is Revealed!

It's just a turd that looks like a baby alien.
 
2013-04-25 03:32:13 AM  
Conspiracy theorists are ALL Republitards. Amirite?
 
2013-04-25 03:39:37 AM  

log_jammin: UnspokenVoice: 6823173

oh wow.


I've had people also deny doing/saying stuff in the past. Saving the numbers when I farky them has actually resulted in some amusing results/back peddling etc... The real reason I keep track is 'cause I'm often pretty high and I'm very forgetful but it has helped me make a point a few times. Making a point is valuable I suppose but not nearly as valuable as the few times it has been damned funny.
 
2013-04-25 03:42:21 AM  

UnspokenVoice: I have, for the most part, only normal friends. I dated a chick who was into the various theories but she wasn't really a believer, she was just amused. My father, on the other hand... He's a chemtrail, 9/11, false flag (even if the ongoing news is still only five minutes into a news event and has no true details), and wide scale weather/geological manipulation. He's 189 years old (it seems) and I humor him for a bit at times but he mostly leaves me alone with them.


between my best friend wanting to buy one of those "ionizing" bracelet things, and my brother who now thinks the Mayans come from Georgia but main stream science is keeping it a secret(He seen it on the discovery channel so it has to be true, and anything I show him to the contrary is wrong because it came from the internet and you can't believe what you see on the internet) add to the usual gang of bible types, I'm losing that last little bit of compassion for humanity.
 
2013-04-25 03:44:35 AM  

thorthor: Conspiracy theorists are ALL Republitards. Amirite?


Actually no, but there's a conspiracy to keep left-wing conspiracy theorists out of the media.
 
2013-04-25 04:02:00 AM  

Mithiwithi: thorthor: Conspiracy theorists are ALL Republitards. Amirite?

Actually no, but there's a conspiracy to keep left-wing conspiracy theorists out of the media.


In my limited tolerance, conservative conspiracy theories tend to orbit around the one-world-government/Illuminati/mind control pole of conspiracies; they're also more likely to embrace things like weird chemicals, weird coverups, weird experiments, and assorted other weirdity. Lefty conspiracies orbit the complementary, though not necessarily opposite pole of existing government coverups, big-corporation conspiracies, multi-layer (and sometimes multi-generational) plots of insane complexity, and Dr. No-style deceit. Each side always blames the other for perpetrating the conspiracy. I'd say based on no real research that conservative conspiracy theories are more bizarre overall; but liberal theories make up for in normalcy by being incredibly more complex.

So whereas a conservative might believe that the 9/11 conspiracy was part of a UN plot to bring down the US government and take away our gunz, a liberal might believe the 9/11 conspiracy was a coordinated effort by the Bush Administration using operatives hired from the Saudi government who were being paid for by CIA funds through a shell company which had hired bin Laden's construction company to do work for Halliburton once the Iraq War was launched; and the explosives were some kind of amazing ultra-black secret project being worked up by DoD and 9/11 was really a test case cobbled together so they could better test their new WMDs.

Same root cause, just different paths to get there.
 
2013-04-25 04:12:25 AM  
My best friend was lost to the abyss of conspiracy theories.

What the hell do you do when someone who is very intelligent and ordinarily reasonable gradually becomes more and more irrational about their beliefs in conspiracies and insists that if you don't believe the same you are part of the conspiracy? They spend countless hours on the internet researching theories from the fringes. My IR degree means nothing because it came from the "establishment" and therefore my education is false and only they know the truth. I have not yet opened my eyes. They cannot even accept the possiblity that there is no "one truth," that we don't have all the answers, and that it is actually not possible to have all the answers.Why can't they accept that there are things we don't know but THIS ISNT PROOF THERE IS A NEFARIOUS GLOBAL PLOT AFOOT!

For my friend, non-belief in his ideas are not possible... there is no agreeing to disagree about our world views. Questioning his world view is tantamount to questioning his very core self.  It becomes impossible to have a conversation anymore since his world view is completely incompatible with mine and his has no room for any other possibilities. We don't even live in the same reality anymore. Its like when you go to one of those crazy churches where people are speaking in tongues and you wonder what exactly they are feeling because you don't feel anything at all.  Our realities have utterly diverged.
 How did it come to this?


chemtrails, fluoride, amero, truthers, lizard people, transmitters in fluorescent lights, etc etc etc.
Yet I cannot prove that these do not exist, therefore proving they do exist.

GODAMITSOMUCH!!!!

/misses my best friend :(
 
2013-04-25 04:13:27 AM  

Triumph: The halls of corporate and political power are generally incorruptible, guileless and represented to the public by the media in a forthright fashion. People who question it are mentally ill.


Only people without evidence, when the real facts are indisputable.
 
2013-04-25 04:18:02 AM  

my herniated disc: What the hell do you do when someone who is very intelligent and ordinarily reasonable gradually becomes more and more irrational about their beliefs in conspiracies and insists that if you don't believe the same you are part of the conspiracy?


start here

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Debunking-Handbook-now-freely-availa bl e-download.html
 
2013-04-25 04:19:12 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: All you really need to be in control is an ignore list.




Who wants to live in an echo chamber?
 
2013-04-25 04:27:05 AM  

GleeUnit: Follow the money... Which corporation financed this study? Find out who's trying to convince you there's no conspiracy. That's where you'll find the REAL conspiracy.


Find out who's trying to convince you there IS a conspiracy...and wants your money to help expose it.
 
2013-04-25 04:36:49 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Mithiwithi: thorthor: Conspiracy theorists are ALL Republitards. Amirite?

Actually no, but there's a conspiracy to keep left-wing conspiracy theorists out of the media.

In my limited tolerance, conservative conspiracy theories tend to orbit around the one-world-government/Illuminati/mind control pole of conspiracies; they're also more likely to embrace things like weird chemicals, weird coverups, weird experiments, and assorted other weirdity. Lefty conspiracies orbit the complementary, though not necessarily opposite pole of existing government coverups, big-corporation conspiracies, multi-layer (and sometimes multi-generational) plots of insane complexity, and Dr. No-style deceit. Each side always blames the other for perpetrating the conspiracy. I'd say based on no real research that conservative conspiracy theories are more bizarre overall; but liberal theories make up for in normalcy by being incredibly more complex.

So whereas a conservative might believe that the 9/11 conspiracy was part of a UN plot to bring down the US government and take away our gunz, a liberal might believe the 9/11 conspiracy was a coordinated effort by the Bush Administration using operatives hired from the Saudi government who were being paid for by CIA funds through a shell company which had hired bin Laden's construction company to do work for Halliburton once the Iraq War was launched; and the explosives were some kind of amazing ultra-black secret project being worked up by DoD and 9/11 was really a test case cobbled together so they could better test their new WMDs.

Same root cause, just different paths to get there.


Both sides are crazy, so vote Cthulhu?
 
2013-04-25 04:39:07 AM  

hardinparamedic: Fano: What's interesting to me is the vortex of crazy when conspiracy nuts get together. Listening to the old Art Bell show was amazing, because some episodes would sound like the time Bart had everyone together and talks about how the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people and the reverse vampires..." I mean to say that among the conspiracy nuts there seemed to be an unspoken rule not to shiat on other conspiracies, just to wad them all together, even the mutually contradictory ones. It's amazing the things people can convince themselves to believe. Which monarch in Wonderland was the one that could hold multiple contradictory thoughts at once? Like that.

It's still hilarious to listen to, especially when George Norrie takes the head. I sometimes have to remind myself I'm not listening to the Onion.

Don't judge me. In some of the areas I transport in, we have two and a half hour one way drives. North Mississippi has an abundance of AM radio and Country FM stations. Since I hate the later, the former tend to amuse me since my boss won't let us install a Sirius in the ground trucks.


Did you hear the one about the woman who saw the astral projection ... the naked astral projection of Johnny Horton (who had just died) hovering over her bed? And just before his...projection came down on her, George Norrie cut the story short. Only one I've ever heard him cut off. And it was just getting good.
 
2013-04-25 04:39:27 AM  
FTA: Another common trait is the need to constantly expand the conspiracy as new evidence comes to light. For instance, with the so-called Climategate scandal, there were something like nine different investigations, all of which have exonerated the scientists involved. But the response from the people who held this notion was to say that all of those investigations were a whitewash. So it started with the scientists being corrupt and now not only is it them, but it's also all the major scientific organizations of the world that investigated them and the governments of the U.S. and the U.K., etc., etc. And that's typical - instead of accepting the evidence, you actually turn it around and say that it's actually evidence to support the conspiracy because it just means it's even broader than it was originally thought to be.

 Heh, I remember seeing that happen on Fark.
 
2013-04-25 05:19:03 AM  

log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Operation Gladio
Operation Northwoods
The Business Plot
The Iran-Contra Affair
The Lavon Affair
MK-ULTRA

log_jammin: ITT: People who don't know the difference between a "conspiracy", and a "conspiracy theory".



Maybe I'm a little older than you, but I remember a time when anyone who mentioned MK-ULTRA was regarded as a kook, crazy, a conspiracy theorist, a nut, a whackjob, etc, right up to the time the CIA said "oh yeah, that was true, our bad, LULZ!"

Since then, its all "of course it was a conspiracy. But who cares? It doesn't matter."

I'm sure psychologists would have something to say about that.
 
2013-04-25 05:23:16 AM  

The Repeated Meme: Maybe I'm a little older than you, but I remember a time when anyone who mentioned MK-ULTRA was regarded as a kook, crazy, a conspiracy theorist, a nut, a whackjob, etc, right up to the time the CIA said "oh yeah, that was true, our bad, LULZ!"

Since then, its all "of course it was a conspiracy. But who cares? It doesn't matter."


I'm sure you thought you made a point there, but I'm failing to find it.
 
2013-04-25 05:24:29 AM  
Some people really need a splash of cold water:
Life is not as interesting as you think it is.
 
2013-04-25 05:40:17 AM  

log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Maybe I'm a little older than you, but I remember a time when anyone who mentioned MK-ULTRA was regarded as a kook, crazy, a conspiracy theorist, a nut, a whackjob, etc, right up to the time the CIA said "oh yeah, that was true, our bad, LULZ!"

Since then, its all "of course it was a conspiracy. But who cares? It doesn't matter."

I'm sure you thought you made a point there, but I'm failing to find it.


Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.
 
2013-04-25 05:42:36 AM  

Amos Quito: CONSPIRACY FACT: 19 hijackers armed with box cutters directed by OBL commandeered planes and brought down WTC 1, 2, 7 and damaged the Pentagon.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: That any factor other than the above may have been involved.

CONSPIRACY FACT: That Saddam Hussein was deeply involved with Al-Qaeda ,and helped orchestrate 9-11. He also had WMD's and could "strike Israel" in as little as 40 minutes.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: Anything other than the above.


/Are you a "Conspiracy Theorist"?


It's always baffled me that the same people who believe the Bush government lied outright about Iraq yet were 100% truthful about 9/11.
 
2013-04-25 05:58:50 AM  

The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.


Everything that was discovered about MK-ULTRA? or every conspiracy in general?

either way I'm still not sure what your point is. Since there was a rumor about the CIA giving people LSD and testing if mind control was possible, and it later turned out that some of those rumors were true, then all conspiracy theories have merit and the idea that lizard people control the government should be given equal weight with the idea that the CIA does disinformation campaigns? Is that what you're trying to say?
 
2013-04-25 06:03:27 AM  

Pichu0102: Some people really need a splash of cold water:
Life is not as interesting as you think it is.


Just keep thinking that. Now move along.
 
2013-04-25 06:06:06 AM  
if conspiracy theorists are mentally ill, you must concede that religious people are as well...

and for that matter anyone who believes in anything.

because by definition belief is not fact...

but i dare you to go through life without believing anything...
 
2013-04-25 06:09:01 AM  

mraudacia: if conspiracy theorists are mentally ill,


In most cases, they are not.
 
2013-04-25 06:29:25 AM  

The Repeated Meme: Maybe I'm a little older than you, but I remember a time when anyone who mentioned MK-ULTRA was regarded as a kook, crazy, a conspiracy theorist, a nut, a whackjob, etc, right up to the time the CIA said "oh yeah, that was true, our bad, LULZ!"

Since then, its all "of course it was a conspiracy. But who cares? It doesn't matter."


Well as soon as it's not a conspiracy theory anymore, it's just one of those things, like the Bilderberg group.   They denied it's existence for decades, and then when they were forced to admit that they really had these meetings, people just said 'oh, well, it doesn't matter that they meet in secret, it's fine'.
 
2013-04-25 06:29:57 AM  

hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: Anyone who doesn't blindly believe that the Reichstag Fire  was caused by Communist Jews deserves to be gassed!

Just because Hitler blew up the Reichstag does not mean that the Government used "microthermite" to blow up the Twin Towers, or that JFK was shot by Gray Aliens.


Funny you mention this, because  Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.
He's also a truther! what a shocking surprise!
 
2013-04-25 06:33:55 AM  
 
2013-04-25 06:34:41 AM  

TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.


why does that not surprise me.
 
2013-04-25 08:05:32 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor


I need to laugh at each clause separately.

Hahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha, no.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, no.

Conspiracy theorists are open to telling you why they're right, how the evidence opposing them is just part of the cover up and how you're just not open minded enough.  You see, an intelligent debate would end with some form of "all those flaws in my argument and opposing evidence showed me I was mistaken about vaccines/chemtrails/9-11/JFK/the Moon landing, etc".  An intelligent debate wouldn't be a rehash of the same handful of debunked talking points over and over and over as it is with EVERY SINGLE CONSPIRACY THEORY.  The conviction of conspiracy theorists has nothing to do with the actual strength of their arguments.  I've had conversations with conspiracy theorists where they flat out say they can't counter some point of mine, but say they still believe their conspiracy anyway.  It's not about facts in the least.  And that leads me to

Conspiracy theorists don't have the evidence, even sometimes, in their favor.  The reason for this is pretty simple.  It has to do with the way most conspiracy theories are built.  They'll take a handful of actual facts and build a web of specious arguments around them.  There's never any evidence for the meat of the conspiracy and when you point that out they retreat back to the hodgepodge of facts they've cobbled together as "evidence".

Really, all that's left to do is this:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-04-25 08:14:30 AM  
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!

/make up whatever you want!
//"conspiracy" is really a loosely used term these days huh
 
2013-04-25 08:28:08 AM  

Baryogenesis: J. Frank Parnell: Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor

I need to laugh at each clause separately.

Hahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha, no.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, no.

Conspiracy theorists are open to telling you why they're right, how the evidence opposing them is just part of the cover up and how you're just not open minded enough.  You see, an intelligent debate would end with some form of "all those flaws in my argument and opposing evidence showed me I was mistaken about vaccines/chemtrails/9-11/JFK/the Moon landing, etc".  An intelligent debate wouldn't be a rehash of the same handful of debunked talking points over and over and over as it is with EVERY SINGLE CONSPIRACY THEORY.  The conviction of conspiracy theorists has nothing to do with the actual strength of their arguments.  I've had conversations with conspiracy theorists where they flat out say they can't counter some point of mine, but say they still believe their conspiracy anyway.  It's not about facts in the least.  And that leads me to

Conspiracy theorists don't have the evidence, even sometimes, in their favor.  The reason for this is pretty simple.  It has to do with the way most conspiracy theories are built.  They'll take a handful of actual facts and build a web of specious arguments around them.  There's never any evidence for the meat of the conspiracy and when you point that out they retreat back to the hodgepodge of facts they've cobbled together as "evidence".

Really, all that's left to do is this:

[imgs.xkcd.com image 314x544]


You are obviously part of the cover up, isn't that right COMRADE?
 
2013-04-25 08:32:08 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: hardinparamedic: So your response to it being pointed out that you're so full of crap it's dripping from your ears is to equate your wife cheating on you with, say, 9-11 Trutherism?

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 300x168]

Putting your cognitive dissonance aside, this isn't about any particular conspiracy. Just how people, probably like yourself, dismiss them as possibilities because they're conspiracies, as if such things never happen.


Very few conspiracy theorists have any idea how conspiracies actually work in the organizations they blame for secret skulduggery. Compare the mechanism of Iran-Contra (very few people involved, an ambiguous, legally cloudy covert national-defense mission, conspiracy was exposed as soon as anyone looked into it) with 9/11 truthers (vast numbers of people would have to be involved, the conspiracy involves the mass murder of fellow Americans and military members, no actual evidence to back it has ever emerged).

Conspiracy theories have the advantage of not needing to make internal sense. All you have to do is criticize supposed holes in the official explanation, and voila! That story must be false, and you are allowed infinite speculation about the "real truth," no matter how unlikely and full of holes your conspiracy tale is.
 
2013-04-25 08:34:56 AM  

log_jammin: TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.

why does that not surprise me.


Think about it! Jack Ruby was a Jew. What more evidence do you need, sheeple?
 
2013-04-25 08:41:44 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: log_jammin: people dismiss them as conspiracies because there is no evidence to back them.

But they rarely even try to discuss it rationally. Just dismiss them on the grounds that they're conspiracy theories, and begin mocking and insulting like that fellow did.

Most 'conspiracy theorists' are quite open to intelligent debate, and you might be surprised to see the evidence is sometimes in their favor. But it seldom gets that far before someone starts frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who suggests a conspiracy names.


Nope. Conspiracy theories have identifiable traits. One I can remember off hand is that they often cite "holes" in the prevailing theory as evidence that supports their own theory.

Link
 
2013-04-25 08:42:49 AM  

Mithiwithi: J. Frank Parnell: UnspokenVoice: My favorite was their claim that humans weren't meant to eat meat. As in, we're not meant to physiologically. I am still amused by that but I am easily amused.

When i pointed out cows can also absorb protein from meat, but clearly evolved as purely vegetarian, then used that to prove us being able to absorb protein from it doesn't mean we evolved to? Good times. I'm not even all 'anti-meat'. Was just saying something that is an actual fact, and here you are, mocking me for it.

hardinthehead is misrepresenting and twisting things again, too. I don't think you guys even need me here.to play pretend.

Of course the fact that humans can digest and absorb protein isn't knock-down proof that humans were meant to eat meat.  Fortunately that's far from the only piece of evidence for that hypothesis.  A much better one, for example, is the fact that there are ten amino acids that are essential to humans (i.e. humans cannot synthesize them), whereas cows have only two.

I do suspect there is at least one person in this thread misrepresenting and twisting arguments - and if hardinparamedic is doing so, then there's at least two.


How about the fact that chimps eat meat when they can get it, and they are our closest animal relatives? I would think that if we weren't "meant" to eat meat, we wouldn't like the taste.
 
2013-04-25 08:49:32 AM  

log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.


OK, this is complete and utter bullshiat. Iran-Contra was not a conspiracy theory before it came out. Neither was MK-Ultra. Neither was the Tuskegee experiment. Area 51 was (and is) a conspiracy theory about space aliens, and when an ACTUAL secret program was revealed (the F-117 stealth fighter), no one outside of a few aerospace journalists had been theorizing about this new technology being secretly developed. Certainly none of the tinfoil hat brigade.

/"Conspiracy theory" means that there is widespread belief among credulous paranoids. An investigative hypothesis within law enforcement is not a conspiracy theory.
 
2013-04-25 08:54:03 AM  

epoc_tnac: Amos Quito: CONSPIRACY FACT: 19 hijackers armed with box cutters directed by OBL commandeered planes and brought down WTC 1, 2, 7 and damaged the Pentagon.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: That any factor other than the above may have been involved.

CONSPIRACY FACT: That Saddam Hussein was deeply involved with Al-Qaeda ,and helped orchestrate 9-11. He also had WMD's and could "strike Israel" in as little as 40 minutes.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: Anything other than the above.


/Are you a "Conspiracy Theorist"?

It's always baffled me that the same people who believe the Bush government lied outright about Iraq yet were 100% truthful about 9/11.


That's because those people know how to read, and have seen the considerable, often undisputed documentation about the PR campaign to justify the Iraq invasion (one can differ as to whether that rose to the level of "lying," or was just willful selection of evidence that bolstered only one theory). The September 11 attacks were thoroughly investigated by Congress and the cops, most of whom had no direct connection to the Bush administration, and no viable alternative theory has emerged to "Al Qaeda did it, just like they claim they did."
 
2013-04-25 08:57:13 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: hardinparamedic: So your response to it being pointed out that you're so full of crap it's dripping from your ears is to equate your wife cheating on you with, say, 9-11 Trutherism?

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 300x168]


You're confusing amusement with anger.
 
2013-04-25 08:59:09 AM  
Surprised the moon landing hasn't come up yet. I think that one is prime derp, in that the conspiracy theory is so easily shot full of holes. I mean, you really can't prove that there AREN'T lizard people; that one has internal logical consistency. But all of the so-called "facts" used to claim the moon missions were impossible can be brushed aside with a high school physics textbook.
 
2013-04-25 09:00:18 AM  

UsikFark: bootmoop: Looking over, I thought to myself, "It simply can't be! That was my weird ass professor on stochastic modeling."

Have you seen what Ben Stein is up to?


I thought he was still waiting for Bueller to answer.
 
2013-04-25 09:02:13 AM  

esteban9: There are two ways to slide through life without thinking. One is to believe everything, and the other to doubt everything. Sorting out the truth takes diligence and intelligence.


That would tend to imply that those two positions are equally valid - and they are not. The skeptic who doubts everything is going to be right far, FAR more often that the "believer",
A finite, limited number of things are true - an infinite, unlimited number of things are false.
 
2013-04-25 09:05:23 AM  
Think whatever you want. But if you let the crazy out in public, don't get all butthurt when the normies point and laugh.
 
2013-04-25 09:15:10 AM  

hardinparamedic: J. Frank Parnell: When i see someone resort to namecalling and mockery it doesn't make me think they're very intelligent, or are capable of being objectively rational. But to each their own. Someone like Bill O'Reilly frequently gets mad and insults people instead of properly arguing anything they've said, and millions of people think that makes him look correct. Dark times, these are.

Or, it could be the fact that people have addressed the statements and theories you've proposed on everything from 9/11, to Vaccination, to Fluoride so many times that they get tired of hearing you say it, and at that point resort to making fun of you just to keep things interesting.


Yep.  I tried, in other threads months ago, to take  J. Frank Parnell seriously and debate some of the stuff he posted.  First it was a bunch of crap about vegetarianism   I posted links.  Then it was fluoride   I posted links.  Then the whole Jenny McCarthy vaccination schtick.  i posted links.  He'd either ignore me completely, wave them away with some feeble dismissal, or respond with some angry rant.  At no point would he actually address the facts that contradicted the claims he was making.

So after three different topics in three different threads, I gave up.  Now when he posts I just point and laugh.
 
2013-04-25 09:29:56 AM  
They are ignorant individuals who lack an understanding of the world. It is the only way they feel like they are special and more intelligent than everyone else.  This is why Glen Beck feeds BS to his audience.
 
2013-04-25 09:34:45 AM  

mraudacia: if conspiracy theorists are mentally ill, you must concede that religious people are as well...

and for that matter anyone who believes in anything.

because by definition belief is not fact...


Go look up "false equivalence" and then get back to us with less derp, if possible.
 
2013-04-25 09:38:01 AM  

Fano: Human minds seem configured to find patterns where there are none. I cannot award partisan points because as you say, the only thing that varies is the flavor of the conspiracy. Intelligence doesn't matter too much because the smarter folks that believe in conspiracies just use more sophisticated and subtle pattern recognition. I know that I've talked to what I consider well-educated people that, when you get them on the "right subject," start saying things like "the Zionists and the Bilderbergers meet regularly to develop world policy, you know that, right?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------- - -----------------------------------


Lsherm: scottydoesntknow: cretinbob: It's a coping mechanism

Sure, but who controls the "mechanism"? Didn't think about that didya!


img248.imageshack.us

He's controlled it since the Great Alfie War of 1985.  Prior to that, of course, Alfie controlled it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------

Build-a-Beargers?

Teddy Ruxpin?

IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER!
 
2013-04-25 09:40:10 AM  

ciberido: Then it was fluoride


I ran into a conspiracy derper a few months back who was going on about fluoride so I did a little research. It was interesting to find out that the whole fluoride lunacy developed in the 50's during the red scare. Some people got convinced that fluoride was part of a plan to control their minds and make them commies. Plus ca change....
 
2013-04-25 10:28:55 AM  

Whiskey Pete: ciberido: Then it was fluoride

I ran into a conspiracy derper a few months back who was going on about fluoride so I did a little research. It was interesting to find out that the whole fluoride lunacy developed in the 50's during the red scare. Some people got convinced that fluoride was part of a plan to control their minds and make them commies. Plus ca change....


TV Tropes page lists Jack T. Ripper's fluoridation obsession under "Aluminum Christmas Trees" - something that seems to later audiences as if it were unrealistic and bizarre and made up just to support the story, when in fact it was actually a thing when the story was written.

Of course, as with aluminum Christmas trees, there's always a few places where fluoridation derp never actually went out of style.
 
2013-04-25 10:30:26 AM  

Triumph: The halls of corporate and political power are generally incorruptible, guileless and represented to the public by the media in a forthright fashion. People who question it are mentally ill.


A quick search for "conspiracy theories that were true" certainly confirms this.  It comes up with zero hits, so don't bother actually trying it.
 
2013-04-25 10:48:22 AM  

log_jammin: TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.

why does that not surprise me.



Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?
 
2013-04-25 11:08:06 AM  

Mithiwithi: Whiskey Pete: ciberido: Then it was fluoride

I ran into a conspiracy derper a few months back who was going on about fluoride so I did a little research. It was interesting to find out that the whole fluoride lunacy developed in the 50's during the red scare. Some people got convinced that fluoride was part of a plan to control their minds and make them commies. Plus ca change....

TV Tropes page lists Jack T. Ripper's fluoridation obsession under "Aluminum Christmas Trees" - something that seems to later audiences as if it were unrealistic and bizarre and made up just to support the story, when in fact it was actually a thing when the story was written.

Of course, as with aluminum Christmas trees, there's always a few places where fluoridation derp never actually went out of style.


I am old enough to have actually had an aluminum Christmas tree. This was in the early 1970's but Mom and Dad were products of the depression and the 1950's and they didn't change things up very much : /
 
2013-04-25 11:13:07 AM  

Amos Quito: Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?


How exactly do you think that bringing the link where you show exactly what you think about JFK's "accident" (in your, uh, genius insinuation technique)  literally proving that i'm right about your conspiracy bullshiat, constitute as proof that i'm lying ? i'm honestly curious how you rationalize this to yourself.
 
2013-04-25 11:16:49 AM  

TappingTheVein: Amos Quito: Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?

How exactly do you think that bringing the link where you show exactly what you think about JFK's "accident" (in your, uh, genius insinuation technique)  literally proving that i'm right about your conspiracy bullshiat, constitute as proof that i'm lying ? i'm honestly curious how you rationalize this to yourself.


You are obviously part of the cover-up, Tapping. Nice try, COMRADE.
 
2013-04-25 11:25:36 AM  

Amos Quito: log_jammin: TappingTheVein: Amos Quitobelieves that JFK's assassination was a jewish conspiracy.

why does that not surprise me.


Because you didn't bother to click the link and find out that TappingTheVein was lying, (as usual)?


Oh I clicked the link alright. You calling his comment a lie is about as Orwellian as it gets.
 
2013-04-25 11:47:21 AM  

mbillips: log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.

OK, this is complete and utter bullshiat. Iran-Contra was not a conspiracy theory before it came out. Neither was MK-Ultra. Neither was the Tuskegee experiment.


Not arguing with you on this. However, the fact that the government actually did these types of nefarious activities serves as fuel for other, more outrageous, conspiracy theories. Once you catch someone intentionally lying to you, it's difficult to believe anything they tell you afterward.

It certainly didn't help when the Bush administration came up with the idea of a Department of Misinformation after 9/11. That was probably the worst PR blunder on the part of the government I've ever seen. These kind of actions sow the seeds of legitimate doubt and erode the public trust, which creates a line of thought where "well, they did X, what's to stop them from doing Y and Z?" It's compounded by the fact that once people latch on to a spurious claim, it can be very difficult to shake them loose from it, no matter how overwhelming the facts to the contrary may be.
 
2013-04-25 11:51:36 AM  

MacWizard: mbillips: log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.

OK, this is complete and utter bullshiat. Iran-Contra was not a conspiracy theory before it came out. Neither was MK-Ultra. Neither was the Tuskegee experiment.

Not arguing with you on this. However, the fact that the government actually did these types of nefarious activities serves as fuel for other, more outrageous, conspiracy theories. Once you catch someone intentionally lying to you, it's difficult to believe anything they tell you afterward.

It certainly didn't help when the Bush administration came up with the idea of a Department of Misinformation after 9/11. That was probably the worst PR blunder on the part of the government I've ever seen. These kind of actions sow the seeds of legitimate doubt and erode the public trust, which creates a line of thought where "well, they did X, what's to stop them from doing Y and Z?" It's compounded by the fact that once people latch on to a spurious claim, it can be very difficult to shake them loose from it, no matter how overwhelming the facts to the contrary may be.


Yes but when the connection between "X" and "Z" are just preposterous it's hard to take a conspiracy loon seriously.
 
2013-04-25 12:32:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: [i246.photobucket.com image 631x423]

What does this mean?  I've Googled and can't find any reference to it.

 
2013-04-25 01:05:37 PM  
Nevermind.  I found it.  Interesting!!
 
2013-04-25 03:48:38 PM  

log_jammin: UnspokenVoice: I have, for the most part, only normal friends. I dated a chick who was into the various theories but she wasn't really a believer, she was just amused. My father, on the other hand... He's a chemtrail, 9/11, false flag (even if the ongoing news is still only five minutes into a news event and has no true details), and wide scale weather/geological manipulation. He's 189 years old (it seems) and I humor him for a bit at times but he mostly leaves me alone with them.

between my best friend wanting to buy one of those "ionizing" bracelet things, and my brother who now thinks the Mayans come from Georgia but main stream science is keeping it a secret(He seen it on the discovery channel so it has to be true, and anything I show him to the contrary is wrong because it came from the internet and you can't believe what you see on the internet) add to the usual gang of bible types, I'm losing that last little bit of compassion for humanity.


I suspect we have always been stupid.
 
2013-04-25 04:58:55 PM  
Hi guys!  What's this thread about?

joehistorian.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-25 07:31:00 PM  
I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn't believe anything.
 
2013-04-25 10:59:42 PM  

log_jammin: The Repeated Meme: Everything that was discovered to be a conspiracy started out as a conspiracy theory.

Everything that was discovered about MK-ULTRA? or every conspiracy in general?

either way I'm still not sure what your point is. Since there was a rumor about the CIA giving people LSD and testing if mind control was possible, and it later turned out that some of those rumors were true, then all conspiracy theories have merit and the idea that lizard people control the government should be given equal weight with the idea that the CIA does disinformation campaigns? Is that what you're trying to say?



No, not at all. The point I was trying to make was that if you mention something like MK-ULTRA then people will jump to saying you must believe in lizard people, faked moon landings, etc, which of course is reductio ad absurdum.

Just because some people can't engage in critical thought and slot information to suit their narrative doesn't mean people in positions of power don't conspire and get away with it.
 
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