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(Law Officer)   Dramatic pictures of Watertown shootout taken by resident from his bedroom window   (lawofficer.com) divider line 141
    More: Scary, Douglas A-20 Havoc, Mercedes SUV, pressure cooker, bedrooms, Tsarnaev  
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24270 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Apr 2013 at 3:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 06:25:04 PM

JNowe: dittybopper:

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.

They want a monopoly on violence, they want to be in control. I say let them have their firefight.  Similarly, the younger one was found by a citizen checking his boat AFTER the order to remain in his house was lifted.  The police are large and in charge, they don't need our help.


A monopoly on violence?  Odd, they've given me every high-capacity gun permit I've ever asked for, in four different towns now.

They must be doing it wrong.
 
2013-04-24 06:26:04 PM

Frozboz: Why did the younger brother drive toward the cops, why not away, down the street?  Was it a dead end (no pun intended)?


Looping back to get his brother, would be my bet.
 
2013-04-24 06:27:29 PM

dittybopper: Yeah, but it will be *FRIENDLY* questioning.   They'll have plenty of coffee, donuts, and congratulatory back-slapping for him from the rank and file, even if the bosses are all "Thank you for saving our officers, but don't do it again".


I've seen that before, actually:
brantleypalmer.files.wordpress.com

\well, more or less, anyways
 
2013-04-24 06:30:34 PM

FriarReb98: dittybopper: Yeah, but it will be *FRIENDLY* questioning.   They'll have plenty of coffee, donuts, and congratulatory back-slapping for him from the rank and file, even if the bosses are all "Thank you for saving our officers, but don't do it again".

I've seen that before, actually:
[brantleypalmer.files.wordpress.com image 445x342]

\well, more or less, anyways


Not in our neighborhood, man. A hundred percent Irish. No one talks to cops. Period.
 
2013-04-24 06:36:24 PM

bearcats1983: Very interesting that none of the cops tried to flank them. The battle lasted around 10 minutes, that should've been enough time to move through backyards to move around them. Although, when you're getting shot at and grenades thrown at you, I assume the last thing you want to do is move from cover.


Or draw fire to the homes of private citizens?
 
2013-04-24 06:37:57 PM

vudukungfu: dittybopper: They can't see into that window at all.

You or I with a mod. 94 winchester 30 30, could hit them one shot kill. and it would be over fast.
I would worry about anyone who owns a AR15.
Seriously, I can see some spay and pray idiot missing the hell out of anything but the cops.


I think if you check the stats, you'll find far more moron hunters killing cows and family pets they thought were deer...and each other...with 30-30s than you'll find spray-and-pray AR15 guys.   Of course, no weapon is idiot-proof.

/your "spay" and pray was pretty funny, though :)
 
2013-04-24 06:47:20 PM

dittybopper: [www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.



I've wondered if I'd do something like that in that situation.  It would have been pretty tempting to poke my Mini-14 out the window and unleash a few shots...looks like they were easy targets from that vantage point.  I may have even called 911 first so they could alert the police.
 
2013-04-24 06:49:31 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: bearcats1983: Very interesting that none of the cops tried to flank them. The battle lasted around 10 minutes, that should've been enough time to move through backyards to move around them. Although, when you're getting shot at and grenades thrown at you, I assume the last thing you want to do is move from cover.

Or draw fire to the homes of private citizens?


By the looks of it, homes were shot up already. Probably a legit concern though.
 
2013-04-24 06:55:21 PM
If I were in that position, I had confirmation that the guys outside were on the evil side of the firefight, and I had a solid understanding of firearm tactics and the skill and accuracy to execute them, I like think I'd have done what ITGs assume they would have done.  Otherwise I'd be hauling ass to the back of the building or the basement.

It all goes back to "well-regulated".  I'd trust somebody with military training to take the shot.  I would not trust some jackoff with a $99 Wal-Mart rifle and more hours logged in Call of Duty than at the range to do it.
 
2013-04-24 07:11:43 PM
This is the same guy whose twitter feed we were all following last Thursday night. It was pretty crazy seeing this stuff unfold, almost live.
 
2013-04-24 07:16:16 PM
From the comments on that site:

A lost opportunity... if you had been armed like all good American men should be, you could have ended this on the spot with a couple of whiffs of buckshot from a pump shotgun.
Posted by John Skookum on April 24, 2013
You farkers are funny!
 
2013-04-24 07:20:34 PM
Zoomed wayyyy in:

i37.tinypic.com
 
2013-04-24 07:25:17 PM

Feral_and_Preposterous: dittybopper: way south: dittybopper: Remember that the police are down the street to the right:  They can't see into that window at all.

Depending on the gun, they could have seen the muzzle blast.
Being that its spitting range for any rifle, it wouldn't take long for them to realize the suspects were down.

/I agree that they probably wouldn't be angry so much as confused and rightfully cautious.
/You're up for a long night of questioning at any rate.

Yeah, but it will be *FRIENDLY* questioning.   They'll have plenty of coffee, donuts, and congratulatory back-slapping for him from the rank and file, even if the bosses are all "Thank you for saving our officers, but don't do it again".

Looking at the picture, it's almost the perfect set-up:

[www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

They can't take cover without exposing themselves to the gunfire of the police.  It would be a classic "L" shaped ambush, no where safe to run.

Oh, and I measured it in Google Earth, and the horizontal distance is more like 15 or 16 yards.

You'd better be damned sure you aren't shooting undercover policemen, though. Not all cops drive cars with flashy light-bars on top or wear uniforms. It's a good bet if they're shooting at people in cop cars that you're good to go, but if you just look out your window and see that scene: you really don't have enough information to go on.


Right. The guys with the suv and civic shooting at and throwing bombs towards the guys with cop cars could actually be the real cops.
 
2013-04-24 07:29:42 PM

dittybopper: vudukungfu: dittybopper: They can't see into that window at all.

You or I with a mod. 94 winchester 30 30, could hit them one shot kill. and it would be over fast.
I would worry about anyone who owns a AR15.
Seriously, I can see some spay and pray idiot missing the hell out of anything but the cops.

Meh.  I've owned a Colt AR-15A2 Sporter II, a Norinco AKM, and a Norinco SKS.  Any one of them would have been appropriate.

AR-15's are ubiquitous, they are the most popular rifle in America.  Don't judge.  Embrace the diversity.


Heh. Norinco SKS... At 15 yards you might actually hit them. I might throw a shoe or deploy the bayonette instead.
 
2013-04-24 07:32:06 PM

This text is now purple: ZackDanger: (Last picture is of the younger brother "charging" the cops with the SUV while they try to handcuff the older brother on the ground.)

He was charging them with his brake lights on?


Maybe he drives with both feet.

/I *HATE* people who drive with both feet.
 
2013-04-24 07:41:39 PM

poot_rootbeer: If I were in that position, I had confirmation that the guys outside were on the evil side of the firefight, and I had a solid understanding of firearm tactics and the skill and accuracy to execute them, I like think I'd have done what ITGs assume they would have done.  Otherwise I'd be hauling ass to the back of the building or the basement.

It all goes back to "well-regulated".  I'd trust somebody with military training to take the shot.  I would not trust some jackoff with a $99 Wal-Mart rifle and more hours logged in Call of Duty than at the range to do it.


I don't know if I'm an ITG, but I've put in enough time at ranges and private target shoots to know what I can and cannot hit.  Having the tool for the job and a clean shot, I'd feel very guilty if I ran away and an innocent person got killed.
 
2013-04-24 07:52:19 PM
runescorpio
Heh. Norinco SKS... At 15 yards you might actually hit them. I might throw a shoe or deploy the bayonette instead.

I can make head shots at 100 yards with mine, sorry you're such a bad shot.

and can't spell "bayonet" either
 
2013-04-24 08:11:33 PM
Sure are going to a lot of trouble to fake so any pictures while they frame this guy.


/or so his dad has probably said already
 
2013-04-24 08:25:51 PM

Nana's Vibrator: I'm waiting for a report to discuss how much PCP the brothers were on that whole time.


Hah.

Now thats how you gunfight.

/tampons for large caliber wounds
//cigarette butts for small caliber wounds
 
2013-04-24 08:30:39 PM

Frantic Freddie: runescorpio
Heh. Norinco SKS... At 15 yards you might actually hit them. I might throw a shoe or deploy the bayonette instead.

I can make head shots at 100 yards with mine, sorry you're such a bad shot.

and can't spell "bayonet" either


Yeah, I used to bullseye womp rats back home.
 
2013-04-24 09:05:39 PM
It still kind of amazes me that the younger brother, while cornered still managed to charge the barricade made by the cop cars, break through it and disappear.  That is some action movie shiat right there.
 
2013-04-24 09:36:13 PM

dittybopper: Travis_Bickle: Sure, in an ongoing firefight while you yourself are ducking rifle fire.

You're not ducking rifle fire.  No one is shooting in your direction.

So, you take an adrenaline pumped panicky shot and miss or cause a non disabling wound.

You've got all the time in the World to take the shot.  No one is shooting at you.  You can rest the rifle, and it's only 15 yards. Anyone with experience hunting, or in shooting competitions could easily take the shot.

 They fire back and probably throw that bomb into YOUR house.

How are they going to do that without exposing themselves to police fire?

It's as stupid as all the NRA assholes that thought they could take the Batman shooter down.

Why the hate?  This is actually a situation where someone could have taken action and stopped them quickly, and they have the all the advantages.


Because you're calmly and rationally assaulting one of the Left's Sacred Truths:  that armed civilians will always fark up.
 
2013-04-24 10:28:24 PM

propasaurus: Remember also that in this scenario you're an ex-SEAL Marine Core soldier with sniper training.


To make a 15 yard shot at a target that doesn't even know you're there?

*IF* I had the presence of mind to do it (and who knows, I may not have), I could make that shot with my flintlock.
 
2013-04-24 10:29:46 PM

Frantic Freddie: runescorpio
Heh. Norinco SKS... At 15 yards you might actually hit them. I might throw a shoe or deploy the bayonette instead.

I can make head shots at 100 yards with mine, sorry you're such a bad shot.

and can't spell "bayonet" either


SKS is actually a fairly accurate action.  Certainly more inherently accurate than the AK.
 
2013-04-24 10:32:00 PM

poot_rootbeer: I'd trust somebody with military training to take the shot.  I would not trust some jackoff with a $99 Wal-Mart rifle and more hours logged in Call of Duty than at the range to do it.


Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
 
2013-04-24 10:37:05 PM

dittybopper: propasaurus: Remember also that in this scenario you're an ex-SEAL Marine Core soldier with sniper training.

To make a 15 yard shot at a target that doesn't even know you're there?

*IF* I had the presence of mind to do it (and who knows, I may not have), I could make that shot with my flintlock.


You'd bop your ditty at the first car backfire, tough guy.
 
2013-04-24 11:38:26 PM

YodaBlues: HAMMERTOE: "Well, first there were two grainy, amorphous blobs. Then, an appendage appeared to protrude from blob #1 and there was a popping noise. Blob #2 flattened longitudinally for a few seconds, then sprouted a protrusion of its own and there were several more popping noises. Blob #1 approached blob #2 at an increased rate of speed, after somebody tossed a smoke grenade..."

Are you quoting a Rosie O'Donnell fanfic?


This made me laugh so hard, my wife thought I was having some sort of seizure. I think this joke broke my brain, or something.

Bravo, good sir.
 
2013-04-25 02:30:50 AM

Cork on Fork: 100 Watt Walrus: Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?

Able? Probably. Organized? Given the circumstances, clearly not.

/gotta love Monday-morning quaterbacking

I'm not Monday-morning quarterbacking; I was genuinely curious about the situation and how spread out all the cops were. I don't know the size of the area they were trying to control.


My apologies. Misinterpreted the tone. Valid question misunderstood as snark. I blame Fark for being so Farky.
 
2013-04-25 04:39:23 AM

Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?


There were, during the shootout, 5-7 officers on scene.  I don't know about you, but I'm not "coming up from the opposite direction" when one person is shooting, let alone seven.  If I heard radio traffic of a co-worker in a shootout, I'd try to come up from the sides and flank the suspect to form a combat L.  I certainly wouldn't come up from the back and put myself in the line of friendly fire.
 
2013-04-25 07:16:42 AM

propasaurus: dittybopper: propasaurus: Remember also that in this scenario you're an ex-SEAL Marine Core soldier with sniper training.

To make a 15 yard shot at a target that doesn't even know you're there?

*IF* I had the presence of mind to do it (and who knows, I may not have), I could make that shot with my flintlock.

You'd bop your ditty at the first car backfire, tough guy.


1. Do you even know what a dittybopper is?

2. I've never claimed to be a tough guy.  In fact, I'm quite milquetoasty.
 
2013-04-25 07:34:07 AM

propasaurus: dittybopper: propasaurus: Remember also that in this scenario you're an ex-SEAL Marine Core soldier with sniper training.

To make a 15 yard shot at a target that doesn't even know you're there?

*IF* I had the presence of mind to do it (and who knows, I may not have), I could make that shot with my flintlock.

You'd bop your ditty at the first car backfire, tough guy.


Just to expand upon this, even though I am far from a tough guy, this is what I am:

1. Avid hunter, and have been for over 30 years.  In fact, over a decade ago, I switched from using a scoped bolt action .30'06 to using a flintlock, because it was just too damned easy to take 100 to 150 yard shots on deer.  Similarly, I switched from using a compound bow to using a longbow.  My father made both the gun and the bow I now use.  I make the arrows.

2. Competitive shooter.  I participate in "primitive biathlons", where you run through the woods wearing snowshoes, carrying a muzzleloader, and you shoot at steel targets.  The event is timed, and a hit on a target subtracts time from your score.  Those targets are much smaller and much farther away than would be the case here, and you can't use a rest, you must shoot "off hand" which is the least accurate way to shoot.

3. Ex-US Army.  I spent 4 years in the US Army.  Granted, it was in a non-combat position, so I'm not going to claim I have L33t tactical skillz, but there is a certain minimum amount of training everyone gets in Basic, and that is reinforced by required annual qualifications both at the range and for "common tasks".
 
2013-04-25 07:37:49 AM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?

There were, during the shootout, 5-7 officers on scene.  I don't know about you, but I'm not "coming up from the opposite direction" when one person is shooting, let alone seven.  If I heard radio traffic of a co-worker in a shootout, I'd try to come up from the sides and flank the suspect to form a combat L.  I certainly wouldn't come up from the back and put myself in the line of friendly fire.


Yeah, there is actually a technical name for something like that:  Circular Firing Squad.

You see it a lot in movies.  Perhaps the best example is in Total Recall.
 
2013-04-25 08:11:58 AM

I_Am_Weasel: Yes, law enforcement should be encouraging random citizens to involve themselves in police shootouts. Nothing could possibly go wrong with that.


I was installing a camera system in a Burger King that was on a 4 lane main road. I was outside getting something from my van when a car screeched to a stop in the intersection directly across from me. About 12 cop cars were behind this guy, and instantly there are about 20 cops all with guns drawn, pointed at the vehicle. There were 4 men in the car, and the cops were ordering them out one at a time. They had two of them out, with their hands on their heads, facing away fro them, and had ordered one guy to start walking backwards to them, as they were all behind the doors of their vehicles. That's when I remembered I had some really loud firecrackers in my van. I thought it might be amusing to light a string of blackcats off to see what would happen. But then I thought what if the police put 6 or 800 bullets into the guy. They might get a little pissy about having to write those reports, so I didn't do it.
 
2013-04-25 08:23:22 AM

Phins: Those pictures are blurry and it's hard to see what's going on. What magic commands do I type to get them to enhance and become razor sharp? I haz photoshop so I'm sure it can be done.

 
2013-04-25 08:57:19 AM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?

There were, during the shootout, 5-7 officers on scene.  I don't know about you, but I'm not "coming up from the opposite direction" when one person is shooting, let alone seven.  If I heard radio traffic of a co-worker in a shootout, I'd try to come up from the sides and flank the suspect to form a combat L.  I certainly wouldn't come up from the back and put myself in the line of friendly fire.


Yeah, it makes perfect sense once someone said it. I'm sure this part of the chase will be studied to see what, if anything, could have been done to prevent the second guy from getting away. Maybe something as simple as spike strips on either end of the street. And while I'm picturing a million cops ready to respond, I don't know how many leads they were running down at the same time (once the pictures went out I heard there were thousands of phone calls). I guess it really was a kind of unprecedented situation.
 
2013-04-25 10:30:21 AM

Igor Jakovsky: It still kind of amazes me that the younger brother, while cornered still managed to charge the barricade made by the cop cars, break through it and disappear.  That is some action movie shiat right there.


It's probably why he did it too.

Both brothers decided that they wanted to play action hero and sadly people got killed.

Keep your killing sprees to the xbox.
 
2013-04-25 02:57:40 PM

Travis_Bickle: Sure, in an ongoing firefight while you yourself are ducking rifle fire. So, you take an adrenaline pumped panicky shot and miss or cause a non disabling wound. They fire back and probably throw that bomb into YOUR house.

It's as stupid as all the NRA assholes that thought they could take the Batman shooter down.


I find hilarity in the idiots that portray AR15s as killing machines, even in the hands of untrained random people who can get them and the 100 rd magazines and kill everyone in sight....   (james holmes, adam lanza, etc...)

But those same people claim that there's NOOOOOOO WAY that someone with minimal training, but have shot their own rifle a fair bit couldn't make this type of shot under the circumstances.  "all you NRA wannabes would NEVER be able to make that shot and would probably take out 50 cops instead.."

GIVE ME A FARKIN BREAK!!!!

I could make this shot in my sleep.   Probably with NO sights looking down the barrel, let alone actually using my red dot scope.
 
2013-04-25 03:04:30 PM

PunGent: dittybopper: Dimensio: dittybopper:

All well and good...unless the terrorists had stolen police uniforms, and you end

 killing the two undercover cops who'd just flushed them out...

/gun owner myself
//just saying
///make DAMN sure of your target


I TOTALLY get what you're saying with this, but I think you can rest assured the people throwing the bombs and what not weren't the cops....
 
2013-04-25 06:33:25 PM

Mr.BobDobalita: I find hilarity in the idiots that portray AR15s as killing machines, even in the hands of untrained random people who can get them and the 100 rd magazines and kill everyone in sight....   (james holmes, adam lanza, etc...)

But those same people claim that there's NOOOOOOO WAY that someone with minimal training, but have shot their own rifle a fair bit couldn't make this type of shot under the circumstances.  "all you NRA wannabes would NEVER be able to make that shot and would probably take out 50 cops instead.."

GIVE ME A FARKIN BREAK!!!!


Mr. Bob Dobalita, won't you quit? You really make me sick with your fraudulent behavior.

There's no contradiction there.  One is arguing that the AR-15 et al. are effective tools for killing whatever they put a bullet through, without comment on the user's ability to aim at a legitimate target; the other is arguing that a gun user's ability to aim at a legitimate target during a live firefight scenario is somewhat overestimated by some people, without comment on the efficacy of any particular weapon model.
 
2013-04-25 06:45:39 PM

dittybopper: propasaurus: dittybopper: propasaurus: Remember also that in this scenario you're an ex-SEAL Marine Core soldier with sniper training.

To make a 15 yard shot at a target that doesn't even know you're there?

*IF* I had the presence of mind to do it (and who knows, I may not have), I could make that shot with my flintlock.

You'd bop your ditty at the first car backfire, tough guy.

Just to expand upon this, even though I am far from a tough guy, this is what I am:

1. Avid hunter, and have been for over 30 years.  In fact, over a decade ago, I switched from using a scoped bolt action .30'06 to using a flintlock, because it was just too damned easy to take 100 to 150 yard shots on deer.  Similarly, I switched from using a compound bow to using a longbow.  My father made both the gun and the bow I now use.  I make the arrows.

2. Competitive shooter.  I participate in "primitive biathlons", where you run through the woods wearing snowshoes, carrying a muzzleloader, and you shoot at steel targets.  The event is timed, and a hit on a target subtracts time from your score.  Those targets are much smaller and much farther away than would be the case here, and you can't use a rest, you must shoot "off hand" which is the least accurate way to shoot.

3. Ex-US Army.  I spent 4 years in the US Army.  Granted, it was in a non-combat position, so I'm not going to claim I have L33t tactical skillz, but there is a certain minimum amount of training everyone gets in Basic, and that is reinforced by required annual qualifications both at the range and for "common tasks".


LONG bow? dang...I'm impressed.

Bought my AR15 because I wasn't getting to the range even once a year at my old unit.  If I'm getting called up, I want to be comfortable with the damn thing.
 
2013-04-25 08:51:18 PM

PunGent: LONG bow? dang...I'm impressed.


I also taught myself how to knap flint, so I'm going to be hunting with something like this:

i48.tinypic.com

i45.tinypic.com

That head is a bit too small to be legal for big game in my state, so I'm not going to use that exact arrowhead, but that should give you an idea.

This is the first arrowhead I was ever proud of having made:

i52.tinypic.com

I dulled the edges and carry it in my pocket to this day.
 
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