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(Law Officer)   Dramatic pictures of Watertown shootout taken by resident from his bedroom window   (lawofficer.com) divider line 141
    More: Scary, Douglas A-20 Havoc, Mercedes SUV, pressure cooker, bedrooms, Tsarnaev  
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24276 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Apr 2013 at 3:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 04:28:00 PM  

Dimensio: dittybopper: [www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.

I own a rifle. If such a situation occurred outside of my residence, I would seek cover in a location least likely to suffer an errant strike from a misaimed bullet.


Let's think about that for a minute.

There is an on-going firefight.  You have the capability to end it quickly, and the element of surprise.  Because of something called "target fixation", it is extremely unlikely that either the criminals or the police are even going to notice your first shot.  You are approximately 20 or at most 30 yards from the criminals, which is an easy shot with a rifle.

So, alternative 1:  You wait it out.  Meanwhile, bullets are flying, and they are coming into your home:

www.lawofficer.com

You're rolling the dice.  Will you get hit?  Probably not, the odds are in your favor.  But what if someone else does?

Option 2:  Shoot them.  By the time the surviving person figures out you are shooting at them, you've probably already got him in your crosshairs and are pulling the trigger.   Remember that you have the element of surprise here, so unless you're such a major fark-up that you can't hit a person in the chest with a deer rifle at 25 yards (which, if you can't, you shouldn't be deer hunting anyway), you're going to kill at least one of them before either knows what happened.

Once you've got them, you stop shooting, unload and safe the gun, and let the police know what happened.

Generally, if you shoot people who are shooting at the police, they don't get too mad at you.  At least, I've never heard of someone being charged for shooting someone who was shooting at the police, and yes, armed civilians have done that a number of times.
 
2013-04-24 04:28:38 PM  

SmithHiller: [i.imgur.com image 450x338]

/lunapic.com


Amazing. I had no idea JJ Abrams was a FARKer. :P
 
2013-04-24 04:28:38 PM  
From the Onion: "Area Man Now Checks Inside Boat In Driveway Every Morning"
 
2013-04-24 04:29:11 PM  
Should have switched to video recording and had the greatest Youtube viral of all time.

Still, kudos to him for not instagramming that shiat.
 
2013-04-24 04:32:47 PM  

JustGetItRight: dittybopper: If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Troll post or not, he actually could have.  A shotgun with buckshot would have probably been sufficient.


Not a troll, and yeah, it was an easy shot.  Though I'm a rifle guy, so I think in terms of rifles.  I've only owned a single shotgun in my life.  Don't much care for them.
 
2013-04-24 04:35:17 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

Very dramatic.
 
2013-04-24 04:37:43 PM  

Aarontology: dittybopper: [www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.

After he was gunned down by the cops, of course.


Nah.  They wouldn't know what happened until it was over.  They would have been focused on the targets to pretty much the exclusion of everything else, and with all the gunfire, it's probable that they wouldn't even notice, especially if the person didn't do something dumb like stick the muzzle of the gun out of the window.  Remember that the police are down the street to the right:  They can't see into that window at all.
 
2013-04-24 04:42:43 PM  
First thing I would have done was run to my dresser for a new pair of underwear.

Then when the bomb went off, I would have to run to the dresser again.

Then, and only then, would I run to the back of the house and cower in the corner like a beat puppy.
 
2013-04-24 04:42:54 PM  

PoweredByIrony: Watching this guy giving his Skype interviews in the immediate aftermath of the firefight was amazing. Not because of the coverage, but because he felt comfortable sitting in his room talking to the media while behind him on the street were (according to him) three backpacks and a car being examined by a bomb disposal robot. Three backpacks and a car full of an unknown amount of explosives. But he didn't feel comfortable OPENING THE WINDOW to give the reporters a better view. THAT would have been dangerous.

People don't understand things that go boom.



CSB - I was driving home one day with my wife and we drove right next to the SWAT team surrounding a house.  They were crouched behind trees, behind parked police cars holding assault rifles, wearing body armor and the whole bit.  We were seriously like 5 feet away tops (I still wonder WTF they didn't block the street off) from a female cop with a rifle crouched behind the tree.  Anyway, as we roll by, my wife rolls her window up.  Because you know, that's gonna help.  After teasing her, she saw the ridiculousness.  /CSB

TLDR - Sometimes in the moment, you don't think about things as clearly as you would otherwise.
 
2013-04-24 04:45:34 PM  

katerbug72: airsupport: Early news reports suggested that Junior Bomberman actually ran over Bomberman while trying to escape.

I guess they've discounted that.

The photo of his body tells another story. He looks run over to me.


I didn't see the photo, and I haven't read the unsealed indictment, but the Commish mentioned in a radio interview (not that he was there or will always tell the truth) that the older brother ran out of ammo and charged the officers.  One of the officers lowered his weapon and engaged in a fight.  As this was going on, the younger brother jumped in the car and sped toward them.  2 other officers jumped in, no one could hear anything because of the bomb explosion.  At the last minute they jumped out of the way leaving Suspect #1 to get run over.

Either way, Bro #1 had already been shot a few times - I'm waiting for a report to discuss how much PCP the brothers were on that whole time.
 
2013-04-24 04:46:43 PM  

dittybopper: Dimensio: dittybopper: [www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.

I own a rifle. If such a situation occurred outside of my residence, I would seek cover in a location least likely to suffer an errant strike from a misaimed bullet.

Let's think about that for a minute.

There is an on-going firefight.  You have the capability to end it quickly, and the element of surprise.  Because of something called "target fixation", it is extremely unlikely that either the criminals or the police are even going to notice your first shot.  You are approximately 20 or at most 30 yards from the criminals, which is an easy shot with a rifle.

So, alternative 1:  You wait it out.  Meanwhile, bullets are flying, and they are coming into your home:

[www.lawofficer.com image 351x468]

You're rolling the dice.  Will you get hit?  Probably not, the odds are in your favor.  But what if someone else does?

Option 2:  Shoot them.  By the time the surviving person figures out you are shooting at them, you've probably already got him in your crosshairs and are pulling the trigger.   Remember that you have the element of surprise here, so unless you're such a major fark-up that you can't hit a person in the chest with a deer rifle at 25 yards (which, if you can't, you shouldn't be deer hunting anyway), you're going to kill at least one of them before either knows what happened.

Once you've got them, you stop shooting, unload and safe the gun, and let the police know what happened.

Generally, if you shoot people who are shooting at the police, they don't get too mad at you.  At least, I've never heard of someone being charged for shooting someone who was shooting at the police, and yes, armed civilians have done that a number of times.


Two problems would confound that decision:

1) I am clumsy.

2) At the time of night that the shootout occurred, I am usually drunk.
 
2013-04-24 04:49:22 PM  

dittybopper: I_Am_Weasel: Yes, law enforcement should be encouraging random citizens to involve themselves in police shootouts.  Nothing could possibly go wrong with that.

Actually, here is a list of armed civilians who came to the aid of police officers.


From the link.  This guy shoots to the top of the Darwin candidates....

The Valley Daily News, Renton, WA
The armed man who intended to rob a Renton, Wash., gunshop should have been forewarned by the police cruiser he had to walk past to enter the store, and the uniformed officer standing just inside the door. Belatedly noticing the policeman, the would-be robber began shooting at him. The officer and a store clerk armed with a semi-auto pistol returned fire, fatally wounding the man.
 
2013-04-24 04:55:05 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: katerbug72: airsupport: Early news reports suggested that Junior Bomberman actually ran over Bomberman while trying to escape.

I guess they've discounted that.

The photo of his body tells another story. He looks run over to me.

I didn't see the photo, and I haven't read the unsealed indictment, but the Commish mentioned in a radio interview (not that he was there or will always tell the truth) that the older brother ran out of ammo and charged the officers.  One of the officers lowered his weapon and engaged in a fight.  As this was going on, the younger brother jumped in the car and sped toward them.  2 other officers jumped in, no one could hear anything because of the bomb explosion.  At the last minute they jumped out of the way leaving Suspect #1 to get run over.


I have no doubt he was run over, but I find this hard to believe.   Charging a cop after a firefight is a sure way to get shot, doubt he lowered his weapon.  Also, if the bomb was a diversion for escape, why weren't both brothers in the SUV?   - actually, knowing they are both batshiat crazy, maybe anything is possible.
 
2013-04-24 04:55:05 PM  

ZackDanger: (Last picture is of the younger brother "charging" the cops with the SUV while they try to handcuff the older brother on the ground.)


He was charging them with his brake lights on?
 
2013-04-24 04:55:22 PM  

dittybopper: Remember that the police are down the street to the right:  They can't see into that window at all.


Depending on the gun, they could have seen the muzzle blast.
Being that its spitting range for any rifle, it wouldn't take long for them to realize the suspects were down.

/I agree that they probably wouldn't be angry so much as confused and rightfully cautious.
/You're up for a long night of questioning at any rate.
 
2013-04-24 04:55:25 PM  
dittybopper:

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.


They want a monopoly on violence, they want to be in control. I say let them have their firefight.  Similarly, the younger one was found by a citizen checking his boat AFTER the order to remain in his house was lifted.  The police are large and in charge, they don't need our help.
 
2013-04-24 05:02:32 PM  

xiola: I have no doubt he was run over, but I find this hard to believe.   Charging a cop after a firefight is a sure way to get shot, doubt he lowered his weapon.  Also, if the bomb was a diversion for escape, why weren't both brothers in the SUV?   - actually, knowing they are both batshiat crazy, maybe anything is possible.


Maybe the older brother was wounded, and decided that going to meet Allah would allow his brother to escape:  Police *HAVE* to focus on the closer threat.  Maybe he wasn't even wounded at that point and still made that decision.  Who knows?  Only clues we have will be what the younger brother says.
 
2013-04-24 05:11:25 PM  
Why did the younger brother drive toward the cops, why not away, down the street?  Was it a dead end (no pun intended)?
 
2013-04-24 05:11:42 PM  

dittybopper: JustGetItRight: dittybopper: If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Troll post or not, he actually could have.  A shotgun with buckshot would have probably been sufficient.

Not a troll, and yeah, it was an easy shot.  Though I'm a rifle guy, so I think in terms of rifles.  I've only owned a single shotgun in my life.  Don't much care for them.


I grew up hunting small game, so I've got an affinity for the scatter gun but It really would have been an easy shot for any kind of long gun.  They're right there and totally oblivious to anything other than the cops engaging them.  I'd bet the one surviving the first shot wouldn't even have looked to the side.  He'd have thought the round came from the cops down the street.  The cops probably would have too.

Can you imagine how marvelous the threads would be if an armed civilian had taken them out?

vudukungfu: JustGetItRight: A shotgun with buckshot would have probably been sufficient.

Poetic, at the least.


Why?  Because of Biden's comments?  The fact that their range and positioning are sufficient for a shotgun with a tight choke (not one of the short-range home defense ones) is merely an observation.  A rifle would have still been a better choice.
 
2013-04-24 05:13:21 PM  

way south: dittybopper: Remember that the police are down the street to the right:  They can't see into that window at all.

Depending on the gun, they could have seen the muzzle blast.
Being that its spitting range for any rifle, it wouldn't take long for them to realize the suspects were down.

/I agree that they probably wouldn't be angry so much as confused and rightfully cautious.
/You're up for a long night of questioning at any rate.


Yeah, but it will be *FRIENDLY* questioning.   They'll have plenty of coffee, donuts, and congratulatory back-slapping for him from the rank and file, even if the bosses are all "Thank you for saving our officers, but don't do it again".

Looking at the picture, it's almost the perfect set-up:

www.lawofficer.com

They can't take cover without exposing themselves to the gunfire of the police.  It would be a classic "L" shaped ambush, no where safe to run.

Oh, and I measured it in Google Earth, and the horizontal distance is more like 15 or 16 yards.
 
2013-04-24 05:14:17 PM  

dittybopper: They can't see into that window at all.


You or I with a mod. 94 winchester 30 30, could hit them one shot kill. and it would be over fast.
I would worry about anyone who owns a AR15.
Seriously, I can see some spay and pray idiot missing the hell out of anything but the cops.
 
2013-04-24 05:15:02 PM  
Those pictures are blurry and it's hard to see what's going on. What magic commands do I type to get them to enhance and become razor sharp? I haz photoshop so I'm sure it can be done.
 
2013-04-24 05:21:02 PM  

Phins: Those pictures are blurry and it's hard to see what's going on. What magic commands do I type to get them to enhance and become razor sharp? I haz photoshop so I'm sure it can be done.


questgamingnetwork.mymiddleearth.com
 
2013-04-24 05:21:25 PM  

Dimensio: Two problems would confound that decision:

1) I am clumsy.

2) At the time of night that the shootout occurred, I am usually drunk.


Well, you can work around item (1) but item (2) is definitely going to be a problem.

If I found myself in that situation, my first thought would be to get my wife and daughter to as safe a place as possible.  If they aren't in the picture, I'm with dittybopper.   Take the shot(s) and end it.
 
2013-04-24 05:22:32 PM  

dittybopper: way south: dittybopper: Remember that the police are down the street to the right:  They can't see into that window at all.

Depending on the gun, they could have seen the muzzle blast.
Being that its spitting range for any rifle, it wouldn't take long for them to realize the suspects were down.

/I agree that they probably wouldn't be angry so much as confused and rightfully cautious.
/You're up for a long night of questioning at any rate.

Yeah, but it will be *FRIENDLY* questioning.   They'll have plenty of coffee, donuts, and congratulatory back-slapping for him from the rank and file, even if the bosses are all "Thank you for saving our officers, but don't do it again".

Looking at the picture, it's almost the perfect set-up:

[www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

They can't take cover without exposing themselves to the gunfire of the police.  It would be a classic "L" shaped ambush, no where safe to run.

Oh, and I measured it in Google Earth, and the horizontal distance is more like 15 or 16 yards.


You'd better be damned sure you aren't shooting undercover policemen, though. Not all cops drive cars with flashy light-bars on top or wear uniforms. It's a good bet if they're shooting at people in cop cars that you're good to go, but if you just look out your window and see that scene: you really don't have enough information to go on.
 
2013-04-24 05:22:35 PM  
Sure, in an ongoing firefight while you yourself are ducking rifle fire. So, you take an adrenaline pumped panicky shot and miss or cause a non disabling wound. They fire back and probably throw that bomb into YOUR house.

It's as stupid as all the NRA assholes that thought they could take the Batman shooter down.
 
2013-04-24 05:24:54 PM  

Phins: Those pictures are blurry and it's hard to see what's going on. What magic commands do I type to get them to enhance and become razor sharp? I haz photoshop so I'm sure it can be done.


i34.tinypic.com

That's about all I got for ya, chief.
 
2013-04-24 05:25:26 PM  

Travis_Bickle: It's as stupid as all the NRA assholes that thought they could take the Batman shooter down.


Batman got shot?
 
2013-04-24 05:32:15 PM  

JustGetItRight: Take the shot(s) and end it.


Good thing the carjacking victim got away.
 
2013-04-24 05:34:22 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Travis_Bickle: It's as stupid as all the NRA assholes that thought they could take the Batman shooter down.

Batman got shot?


By Robin.

b.vimeocdn.com

What's everyone looking at?
 
2013-04-24 05:35:18 PM  
The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?
 
2013-04-24 05:37:24 PM  

This text is now purple: ZackDanger: (Last picture is of the younger brother "charging" the cops with the SUV while they try to handcuff the older brother on the ground.)

He was charging them with his brake lights on?


Tail lights, not brake lights. If the breaks were depressed, the center brake light would be illuminated too.

Plus, it's know Bomber Jr charged the barricade, got through, and ran over his brother in the process, so what makes you think in this picture he'd driven down the street toward the cops, then...hit is brakes?
 
2013-04-24 05:39:33 PM  

Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?


Able? Probably. Organized? Given the circumstances, clearly not.

/gotta love Monday-morning quaterbacking
 
2013-04-24 05:39:59 PM  

Phins: Those pictures are blurry and it's hard to see what's going on. What magic commands do I type to get them to enhance and become razor sharp? I haz photoshop so I'm sure it can be done.


"Zoom" and then "Enhance".  If you enter them in the wrong order your computer will explode.
 
2013-04-24 05:40:42 PM  

Dimensio: At the time of night that the shootout occurred, I am usually drunk.


I was just going to offer that, if it were me, I could have started hurling empty bottles at him.
 
2013-04-24 05:42:34 PM  

Dimensio: PoweredByIrony: Watching this guy giving his Skype interviews in the immediate aftermath of the firefight was amazing.  Not because of the coverage, but because he felt comfortable sitting in his room talking to the media while behind him on the street were (according to him) three backpacks and a car being examined by a bomb disposal robot.  Three backpacks and a car full of an unknown amount of explosives.  But he didn't feel comfortable OPENING THE WINDOW to give the reporters a better view.  THAT would have been dangerous.

People don't understand things that go boom.

You are correct.

When a potentially explosive device is present outside of a home, occupants of the home should open all windows, to prevent glass from being blown into the home should the device detonate.


That's what they taught us in high school when we went to away football games in sketchy areas. Windows down, helmets on. Broken glass is a bigger threat than whatever the hoodlums might throw at you.
 
2013-04-24 05:44:38 PM  

Travis_Bickle: Sure, in an ongoing firefight while you yourself are ducking rifle fire. So, you take an adrenaline pumped panicky shot and miss or cause a non disabling wound. They fire back and probably throw that bomb into YOUR house.

It's as stupid as all the NRA assholes that thought they could take the Batman shooter down.


Except he isn't ducking rifle fire and they aren't even aware he's watching.  This was a very, very different situation than the theater.  As someone else said, this is the perfect ambush against untrained and inexperienced foes.  They would have never have thought to look to the side or up until it was too late.

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: JustGetItRight: Take the shot(s) and end it.

Good thing the carjacking victim got away.


Sure is.  You'll note that the two people in the picture are shooting at and throwing explosives at the police.  It is therefore more than reasonable to assume that they're the farking bad guys.  You'll also note the cops were furiously firing at the farking bad guys, again making it reasonable to assume innocents are clear.  Along those same lines, who's more likely to hit an innocent?  The cops firing from way down the street, on the same level as the farking bad guys, and under fire themselves or the guy who's in an elevated position, completely unobserved, and able to take shot with a weapon steadied on a window sill or similar support.
 
2013-04-24 05:47:52 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?

Able? Probably. Organized? Given the circumstances, clearly not.

/gotta love Monday-morning quaterbacking


I'm not Monday-morning quarterbacking; I was genuinely curious about the situation and how spread out all the cops were. I don't know the size of the area they were trying to control.
 
2013-04-24 05:49:06 PM  

dittybopper: I_Am_Weasel: Yes, law enforcement should be encouraging random citizens to involve themselves in police shootouts.  Nothing could possibly go wrong with that.

Actually, here is a list of armed civilians who came to the aid of police officers.


FYFA:
 ...a right-to-carry permit holder, pulled over and grabbed his .40 cal. pistol and went to the aid of the officer. The two held the men until backup arrived. The driver of the vehicle was driving with a suspended license and a gun was found in the rear of the vehicle

...armed citizen Michael Acree stood ready to lend a hand when a police officer stopped a carload of unruly teenagers outside his Salem, Connecticut, home.



What the heck, ditty?  You used to be cool.  These are examples of people looking for trouble because they're CCW'ing.  A suspended license and unruly teenagers?  Seriously?
 
2013-04-24 05:49:44 PM  

vudukungfu: dittybopper: They can't see into that window at all.

You or I with a mod. 94 winchester 30 30, could hit them one shot kill. and it would be over fast.
I would worry about anyone who owns a AR15.
Seriously, I can see some spay and pray idiot missing the hell out of anything but the cops.


Meh.  I've owned a Colt AR-15A2 Sporter II, a Norinco AKM, and a Norinco SKS.  Any one of them would have been appropriate.

AR-15's are ubiquitous, they are the most popular rifle in America.  Don't judge.  Embrace the diversity.
 
2013-04-24 05:52:17 PM  

Whiskey Dickens: What the heck, ditty?  You used to be cool.


When was that?  I don't recall being cool.  I've always been just ditty.

And I'm not necessarily endorsing everything in that link, just pointing out that the idea that something bad *HAS* to happen when an armed civilian helps the police is wrong.
 
2013-04-24 05:54:20 PM  
100 Watt Walrus:

/gotta love Monday-morning quaterbacking

Also, see:

ques·tion  [kwes-chuhn]
noun
1. a sentence in an interrogative form, addressed to someone in order to get information in reply.
 
2013-04-24 05:58:44 PM  

Travis_Bickle: Sure, in an ongoing firefight while you yourself are ducking rifle fire.


You're not ducking rifle fire.  No one is shooting in your direction.

So, you take an adrenaline pumped panicky shot and miss or cause a non disabling wound.

You've got all the time in the World to take the shot.  No one is shooting at you.  You can rest the rifle, and it's only 15 yards. Anyone with experience hunting, or in shooting competitions could easily take the shot.

 They fire back and probably throw that bomb into YOUR house.

How are they going to do that without exposing themselves to police fire?

It's as stupid as all the NRA assholes that thought they could take the Batman shooter down.

Why the hate?  This is actually a situation where someone could have taken action and stopped them quickly, and they have the all the advantages.
 
2013-04-24 05:59:26 PM  

Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?




That's the last thing you would ever want to do in a firefight. If more cops came up behind them, the cops would be shooting each other behind the perps. You always flank from the side, you never trap the target in the middle.
 
2013-04-24 06:05:07 PM  

dittybopper: Dimensio: dittybopper: [www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.

I own a rifle. If such a situation occurred outside of my residence, I would seek cover in a location least likely to suffer an errant strike from a misaimed bullet.

Let's think about that for a minute.

There is an on-going firefight.  You have the capability to end it quickly, and the element of surprise.  Because of something called "target fixation", it is extremely unlikely that either the criminals or the police are even going to notice your first shot.  You are approximately 20 or at most 30 yards from the criminals, which is an easy shot with a rifle.

So, alternative 1:  You wait it out.  Meanwhile, bullets are flying, and they are coming into your home:

[www.lawofficer.com image 351x468]

You're rolling the dice.  Will you get hit?  Probably not, the odds are in your favor.  But what if someone else does?

Option 2:  Shoot them.  By the time the surviving person figures out you are shooting at them, you've probably already got him in your crosshairs and are pulling the trigger.   Remember that you have the element of surprise here, so unless you're such a major fark-up that you can't hit a person in the chest with a deer rifle at 25 yards (which, if you can't, you shouldn't be deer hunting anyway), you're going to kill at least one of them before either knows what happened.

Once you've got them, you stop shooting, unload and safe the gun, and let the police know what happened.

Generally, if you shoot people who are shooting at the police, they don't get too mad at you.  At least, I've never heard of someone being charged for shooting someone who was shooting at the police, and yes, armed civilians have done that a number of times.


Remember also that in this scenario you're an ex-SEAL Marine Core soldier with sniper training.
 
2013-04-24 06:07:18 PM  

Alonjar: Cork on Fork: The first photo is more than 4 minutes before the one of the SUV charging the officers. In all that time, with all the officers out looking for these guys, there were no cops able to come up from the opposite direction?



That's the last thing you would ever want to do in a firefight. If more cops came up behind them, the cops would be shooting each other behind the perps. You always flank from the side, you never trap the target in the middle.


Got it. That actually makes good sense. Thanks.
 
2013-04-24 06:14:32 PM  

xiola: Should have switched to video recording and had the greatest Youtube viral of all time.

Still, kudos to him for not instagramming that shiat.


He would have held the phone the wrong way.
 
2013-04-24 06:15:10 PM  

JustGetItRight: Along those same lines, who's more likely to hit an innocent?


Are we talking about the "gun safety instructors" with the accidental discharges or this guy?

2.bp.blogspot.com

Hindsight's 20/20. Hell, who's to say Tamerlan didn't consider taking his daughter with him? YOU of course are a veteran SWAT sniper but if we can't trust Chris Kyle's judgment why should we trust Floyd R. Turbo's?
 
2013-04-24 06:21:50 PM  

dittybopper: Dimensio: dittybopper: [www.lawofficer.com image 594x448]

If he'd had a rifle instead of an iPhone, he could have ended it right then and there.

Probably would have gotten a medal from the police, even in anti-gun Massachusetts.

I own a rifle. If such a situation occurred outside of my residence, I would seek cover in a location least likely to suffer an errant strike from a misaimed bullet.

Let's think about that for a minute.

There is an on-going firefight.  You have the capability to end it quickly, and the element of surprise.  Because of something called "target fixation", it is extremely unlikely that either the criminals or the police are even going to notice your first shot.  You are approximately 20 or at most 30 yards from the criminals, which is an easy shot with a rifle.

So, alternative 1:  You wait it out.  Meanwhile, bullets are flying, and they are coming into your home:

[www.lawofficer.com image 351x468]

You're rolling the dice.  Will you get hit?  Probably not, the odds are in your favor.  But what if someone else does?

Option 2:  Shoot them.  By the time the surviving person figures out you are shooting at them, you've probably already got him in your crosshairs and are pulling the trigger.   Remember that you have the element of surprise here, so unless you're such a major fark-up that you can't hit a person in the chest with a deer rifle at 25 yards (which, if you can't, you shouldn't be deer hunting anyway), you're going to kill at least one of them before either knows what happened.

Once you've got them, you stop shooting, unload and safe the gun, and let the police know what happened.

Generally, if you shoot people who are shooting at the police, they don't get too mad at you.  At least, I've never heard of someone being charged for shooting someone who was shooting at the police, and yes, armed civilians have done that a number of times.


All well and good...unless the terrorists had stolen police uniforms, and you end up killing the two undercover cops who'd just flushed them out...

/gun owner myself
//just saying
///make DAMN sure of your target
 
2013-04-24 06:23:38 PM  
Very interesting that none of the cops tried to flank them. The battle lasted around 10 minutes, that should've been enough time to move through backyards to move around them. Although, when you're getting shot at and grenades thrown at you, I assume the last thing you want to do is move from cover.
 
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