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6310 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Apr 2013 at 2:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 02:06:34 PM
Are the Cowboys just bad at the draft?
 
2013-04-24 02:36:14 PM
yes indeed.
 
2013-04-24 02:37:37 PM
+1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better
 
2013-04-24 02:38:11 PM
The best thing for the Cowboys would be for Jerry Jones to drop dead tonight.
 
2013-04-24 02:44:43 PM
thepigskindoctors.com

Throw ENOUGH picks at the wall and you get Emmitt Smith.

And Alvin Harper.

And Darren Woodson.
 
2013-04-24 02:44:53 PM
They have a very shiatty GM.
 
2013-04-24 02:47:20 PM
You know, the Cowboys totally nailed the draft when Jimmy Johnson was the de-facto GM.  What have they done since then?
 
2013-04-24 02:47:27 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better


Beat  me to it, I was going to mention how KC will blow the first round draft this year.
 
2013-04-24 02:48:54 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: [thepigskindoctors.com image 512x464]

Throw ENOUGH picks at the wall and you get Emmitt Smith.

And Alvin Harper.

And Darren Woodson.


Well...someone's STILL bitter at that trade.

/Can't blame ya though
 
2013-04-24 02:49:26 PM

tobcc: Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better

Beat  me to it, I was going to mention how KC will blow the first round draft this year.


Heh, it'll be really hard to screw the first pick up between Fisher and Joekel, but we'll find a way to trade back 15 spots and pick up Geno Smith and Manti Te'o instead.

/Please don't
 
2013-04-24 02:52:53 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: Not that KC is much better


Now that you have Andy Reid, you're going to get to see what a terrible draft REALLY looks like.
 
2013-04-24 02:55:45 PM
They follow the Joe Dumars philosophy of drafting untalented people no one's ever heard of.
 
2013-04-24 02:58:30 PM
I know the Cards are (were, since the regime changed) good at drafting defenders, at least recently. Offense, however, left much to be desired.
 
2013-04-24 02:59:24 PM
Not a huge fan of "oh, they could've gotten *random player x who happens to have worked out for whatever team he went to* if they'd kept that pick!" bullsh*t.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9202430/bill-barnwell-inconsiste nc y-nfl-draft

Since that covers pretty much all of my points, I'll just direct you to the article itself.
 
2013-04-24 02:59:43 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: tobcc: Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better

Beat  me to it, I was going to mention how KC will blow the first round draft this year.

Heh, it'll be really hard to screw the first pick up between Fisher and Joekel, but we'll find a way to trade back 15 spots and pick up Geno Smith and Manti Te'o instead.

/Please don't


Andy Reid for awhile had a great run in the draft. He did hit 2 year bad stretch though that hurt him. Also, he didn't shift his D drafting as well to realize that his coordinators weren't as awesome as Jim Johnson.
/also, Daniel Bryan
 
2013-04-24 03:00:37 PM

Rwa2play: Jim from Saint Paul: [thepigskindoctors.com image 512x464]

Throw ENOUGH picks at the wall and you get Emmitt Smith.

And Alvin Harper.

And Darren Woodson.

Well...someone's STILL bitter at that trade.

/Can't blame ya though


Everyone's bitter or this thread wouldn;t exsist.

That trade basically won them multiple Superbowls.
 
2013-04-24 03:02:39 PM

IAmRight: Not a huge fan of "oh, they could've gotten *random player x who happens to have worked out for whatever team he went to* if they'd kept that pick!" bullsh*t.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9202430/bill-barnwell-inconsiste nc y-nfl-draft

Since that covers pretty much all of my points, I'll just direct you to the article itself.


I am suggesting that they got ass tons of picks.

If you have ass tons of pics you will hit on some of them.
 
2013-04-24 03:06:41 PM

Krymson Tyde: They have a very shiatty GM.

 
2013-04-24 03:07:34 PM
The Cowboys have been on a bad streak ever since the year they drafted Charlie Brown in the first round.

i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-24 03:07:44 PM
It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.
 
2013-04-24 03:07:56 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: I am suggesting that they got ass tons of picks.

If you have ass tons of pics you will hit on some of them.


I was referring to the article - obviously you are correct regarding the "get lots of picks, some are bound to work" theory of drafting.
 
2013-04-24 03:08:51 PM

Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.


It's way funnier to envision him alone just watching on TV and calling in his picks, though.
 
2013-04-24 03:10:26 PM

Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.


Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.
 
2013-04-24 03:14:42 PM

IAmRight: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

It's way funnier to envision him alone just watching on TV and calling in his picks, though.


I can see it now. Jerry just watching the draft and waiting until they say a guy went to Arkansas, and then frantically calling down to the draft guys to take that guy.

The article makes some good points, but some of them are sort of contradictory. "The Cowboys don't draft well. They gave away their 2nd round pick last year, but in previous drafts they got drafted great players in the 2nd and 3rd round."

Going back to the 2009 draft, we see where these numbers can start to be skewed. In 2009, the Cowboys didn't have a pick in the first 2 rounds. It's not like any team expects 10 of their 4th round or later picks to all stick with the team.

Since then, they've gotten Dez Bryant and Sean Lee in 2010, Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter, and Demarco Murray in 2011, and Morris Claiborne & Tyrone Crawford in 2012. Not a terrible haul.
 
2013-04-24 03:17:25 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better


At least they got Leon Sandcastle
 
2013-04-24 03:25:26 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.


deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-24 03:28:13 PM

Treygreen13: The article makes some good points, but some of them are sort of contradictory. "The Cowboys don't draft well. They gave away their 2nd round pick last year, but in previous drafts they got drafted great players in the 2nd and 3rd round."


Of course they are - I should make a flow chart about how to criticize/praise other teams' drafts based on whether you like said team or not.

Basically it all comes down to finding everyone who is good that was picked later than that pick and pretending that they could've/would've drafted 'em all and they'd all have been successful for a different team with different coaches and different schemes.
 
2013-04-24 03:28:37 PM

neuroflare: I know the Cards are (were, since the regime changed) good at drafting defenders, at least recently. Offense, however, left much to be desired.


ehhh........the o line draft picks weren't awful.  Davis (denny green) was played out of position so that isn't his fault.  dallas played him where he belonged and all he did then was go to the pro bowl.  the WR corps wsa pretty good;  it isn't like we took Doucet super high.  he was who we thought he was.  Floyd and Roberts have shown flashes, but also been limited by the CAPTAIN OBVIOUS APPROACHING, horrid QB sitch.  and what's his nuts, levi brown i think, yeah, you can say taking him over ADRIAN PETERSON was dumb, which it was, but he's been serviceable.  underperformed versus where he was drafted, but he hasn't been a bust.

Beanie wells.....all i can say is there is a reason he was available at #29 overall that year.  we needed RB and he was the smart pick.  in retrospect, not a good decision but hard to argue, at the time, it was a bad pick.  hindsight is always 20/20.  the new RB, you can't foresee a preseason ACL (2011) and then another season ending injury in what, Week 5 (2012).  shiat happens.

obviously, Whiz and Graves continuously tapdanced on his dick re QB.  to put it charitably.

on the whole, though, i'd say the offensive draft has been ok.  i gues we can argue what "left much to be desired" versus my "it has been ok" standard means.  some grave errorts (no pun intended) have been made but on the whole, the offensive draft hasn't been awful.  every team in the NFL has a few clunkers and every team in the NFL passed on Wilson, Kaepernick, etc.

conversely, the "can't miss" kids (bradford, that cat in Detroit that looks like bill clinton) havne't exactly lit it up.  or remember 2-3 years ago when no one would shut the fark up about Josh Freeman?
 
2013-04-24 03:36:51 PM

rickythepenguin: you can say taking him over ADRIAN PETERSON was dumb


Freshman year: dislocated shoulder
Sophomore year: high ankle sprain
Junior year: broken collarbone

As a pro? Only ever really missed time in one season (ACL). Beanie Wells? Minor foot injury his junior year that caused him to miss a couple of games but came back and killed it in the next couple of weeks.

/which is why it's tough to go with "injury prone" as a reason for not taking a guy
//of course, if the injuries continue, then you look like a moron
 
2013-04-24 03:39:48 PM

rickythepenguin: conversely, the "can't miss" kids (bradford, that cat in Detroit that looks like bill clinton) havne't exactly lit it up.  or remember 2-3 years ago when no one would shut the fark up about Josh Freeman?


I've been saying he sucked since started. He has Tebow's throwing ability with Mark Sanchez's decision making skills.
 
2013-04-24 03:40:00 PM

Frozboz: Krymson Tyde: They have a very shiatty GM.


at both draft and free agency. shame really. With romo's contract and spencer's franchise tag they are stinking up the off season again. They could of let Spencer go and for the same money they are paying him as a franchised player they could have hired two quality end speed rushers.
 
2013-04-24 03:43:24 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: With romo's contract and spencer's franchise tag


Romo's contract freed up 5 million dollars this year, and they're still working on Spencer's deal.
 
2013-04-24 03:43:54 PM
Josh Freeman had the same thing going on that Tannehill did.

Prior to the draft, people love to talk a lot about the top QB and where he will go. When we find out in advance that the top QB is going to the top team or something like that, or like last year, the top two QBs are going 1-2, then people focus on the third-highest-rated guy and talk about him like he's at that level.

/Freeman isn't that bad but he should be better with that run game, OL, and Vincent Jackson
 
2013-04-24 03:46:32 PM
If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.
 
2013-04-24 03:51:29 PM

TheManofPA: to realize that his coordinators weren't as awesome as Jim Johnson


Jim Johnson was the only reason the Iggles were as good as they were under Andy.  You can see what happened when he was no longer able to be there.
 
2013-04-24 03:52:14 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.


He could hire bobbleheads for a lot less money.
 
2013-04-24 03:55:50 PM

Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.


His last name is probably creating some issues. "What the f*ck? We're paying this guy? It says right here he's free - no sense in letting him go if he's not costing us anything. We really have to pay him?"
 
2013-04-24 03:57:34 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Jim from Saint Paul: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.

He could hire bobbleheads for a lot less money.


For war room laughs, he should have an empty chair next to him and a Jimmy Johnson bobblehead on the table.
 
2013-04-24 04:00:14 PM

Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.


Also, I'll point out that recent "offseason winner" teams like the 2011 Eagles and the Snyder Redskins didn't exactly translate any of that into on-field success.
 
2013-04-24 04:23:19 PM

IAmRight: Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.

His last name is probably creating some issues. "What the f*ck? We're paying this guy? It says right here he's free - no sense in letting him go if he's not costing us anything. We really have to pay him?"


Just fix the glitch and let the problem take care of itself

centralpagazelle.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-24 04:24:54 PM

Treygreen13: TrainingWheelsNeeded: With romo's contract and spencer's franchise tag

Romo's contract freed up 5 million dollars this year, and they're still working on Spencer's deal.


Sure, but they really hamstrung their re-negotiating ability. I think they are paying over market value for Romo. He is Dallas' best option but poor drafting and grooming allowed Tony and his agent to clean up.

As to Spencer, the free agent market was flooded with speed rushers who just a year or two ago were pro bowlers and who are being signed this season for 3-4 million per. If no agreement is made soon they will pay him around 10 mil. for the year. If a deal is made you have Spencer, 28, who has been a little inconsistent at best.
 
2013-04-24 04:31:23 PM

Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.


Good point - there are a few other guys who kiss his ass and tell him what a great choice he's making.
 
2013-04-24 04:33:28 PM
CBS Sports Radio just had a quick 1 minute blurb about Michael Jordan being a bad owner and that owners don't blame or fire themselves - and used Jerry Jones as the current leading example.  Seems relevant here.
 
2013-04-24 04:38:07 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Sure, but they really hamstrung their re-negotiating ability. I think they are paying over market value for Romo. He is Dallas' best option but poor drafting and grooming allowed Tony and his agent to clean up.


I disagree. I think Romo would get that from someone else. That's the problem for Dallas, though. They know the team is abysmal at every other facet of the game (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense) and that with a free agent QB they're a 4-12 team. Their poor salary cap management put them in the position that they have to renegotiate with Romo to get under the contract, so Romo and his agent said, "Alright, pay us what a team falling all over themselves for a QB would pay."

Dallas had three options. Trade Romo and start Kyle Orton (which you know they won't do), don't renegotiate and start cutting guys to make up for the 5 million gap (which just makes the team worse), or pay Romo and push the cap hell back another year. They did what they had to do.

TrainingWheelsNeeded: As to Spencer, the free agent market was flooded with speed rushers who just a year or two ago were pro bowlers and who are being signed this season for 3-4 million per. If no agreement is made soon they will pay him around 10 mil. for the year. If a deal is made you have Spencer, 28, who has been a little inconsistent at best.


Last numbers I heard had the renegotiation at 8 mil a year. Which, while certainly is a little high, isn't an egregious over-payment like Doug Free. He led the team in tackles, had 11 sacks, and made the Pro Bowl.
 
2013-04-24 04:40:32 PM

IAmRight: Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.

His last name is probably creating some issues. "What the f*ck? We're paying this guy? It says right here he's free - no sense in letting him go if he's not costing us anything. We really have to pay him?"


imgs.xkcd.com

I'm picturing this situation but in the payroll department.
 
2013-04-24 04:41:18 PM
*under the cap, not under the contract
 
2013-04-24 04:41:25 PM
Honestly the drafting hasn't been terrible (its not like they drafted JWalrus or anything stupid).  Some of the draft picks have managed to get hurt a lot though.  Free agency and keeping under preforming players for big money is where Jerry Jones fails at being a GM.
 
2013-04-24 04:43:54 PM

ShadowKamui: Honestly the drafting hasn't been terrible (its not like they drafted JWalrus or anything stupid).  Some of the draft picks have managed to get hurt a lot though.  Free agency and keeping under preforming players for big money is where Jerry Jones fails at being a GM.


The injuries have been an issue. There was a period where they were lucky with injuries, but this last season the entire interior of their 3-4 defense was seemingly on IR or week to week. Injuries are a problem for everyone, but the Cows got hit really hard in that aspect.
 
2013-04-24 04:52:45 PM

Treygreen13: (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense)


huh....that would be kind of a fun metric to play with.  like, go back the last 10 years and, using the playoff teams and then championship round teams, determine their "___st in rushing and/or total offense + their team defense" number.  you'd think team with lower numbers would be the best, right?  and obviously, the 31st (worst) offense and shiatty defense would have higer numbers.

but then also, you'd have that goofy number from a few years ago where the Pats were always at the top of the offensive rankings but DFL for team defense, but still had a good playoff run.

i'll try to remember to track that.  that could be kinda cool.
 
2013-04-24 04:53:29 PM
I have no real experience drafting except in Madden. If I draft bad in the game, I just go in and edit the stats. Can't Jerry with all his millions do that?

/Dolphins had some shiat drafting years. Holy Christ we chose Ted Ginn Jr. in the first round.....GINN!
 
2013-04-24 04:53:35 PM

Treygreen13: TrainingWheelsNeeded: Sure, but they really hamstrung their re-negotiating ability. I think they are paying over market value for Romo. He is Dallas' best option but poor drafting and grooming allowed Tony and his agent to clean up.

I disagree. I think Romo would get that from someone else. That's the problem for Dallas, though. They know the team is abysmal at every other facet of the game (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense) and that with a free agent QB they're a 4-12 team. Their poor salary cap management put them in the position that they have to renegotiate with Romo to get under the contract, so Romo and his agent said, "Alright, pay us what a team falling all over themselves for a QB would pay."

Dallas had three options. Trade Romo and start Kyle Orton (which you know they won't do), don't renegotiate and start cutting guys to make up for the 5 million gap (which just makes the team worse), or pay Romo and push the cap hell back another year. They did what they had to do.

TrainingWheelsNeeded: As to Spencer, the free agent market was flooded with speed rushers who just a year or two ago were pro bowlers and who are being signed this season for 3-4 million per. If no agreement is made soon they will pay him around 10 mil. for the year. If a deal is made you have Spencer, 28, who has been a little inconsistent at best.

Last numbers I heard had the renegotiation at 8 mil a year. Which, while certainly is a little high, isn't an egregious over-payment like Doug Free. He led the team in tackles, had 11 sacks, and made the Pro Bowl.


No, I agree, they painted themselves into a corner with Romo. Would be interesting to see if he could have got that same kind of money elsewhere.
 
2013-04-24 04:54:33 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Incorrigible Astronaut: Not that KC is much better

Now that you have Andy Reid, you're going to get to see what a terrible draft REALLY looks like.


Over the last 10 years:"Philadelphia (B+)Pro Bowlers: 7 (t-14th)Draftees Active in 2010: 45 (t-5th)Players with 50+ Career AV: 2 (t-17th)Players with 20+ Career AV: 19 (t-9th)Best Pick: DE Trent Cole (5th round, 2005)Worst Pick: DE Jerome McDougle (1st round, 2003)Summary: The Eagles didn't draft a bona fide star in the first round all decade, but they have had as many steals later in the draft as anybody. They also deserve a lot of credit for covering the running back position in glory for a full decade without a draftee in the top 50 (Brian Westbrook, LeSean McCoy, Correll Buckhalter)."/Now the real trick is to turn that potential into the dung that is currently Eagles football
source:  http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/decade-the-making-the-ul t imate-nfl-draft-grades/2419/
 
2013-04-24 04:57:28 PM

Nana's Vibrator: CBS Sports Radio just had a quick 1 minute blurb about Michael Jordan being a bad owner and that owners don't blame or fire themselves - and used Jerry Jones as the current leading example.  Seems relevant here.


Jerry's a phenomenal owner in a lot of ways, though. I wish he was he owner- and ONLY the owner- of my team. He will spend any amount of money, he makes sure the facilities are top-notch, and his primary concern really is winning.

Jerry's problem is that he can't just be the owner. He wants to be the GM, too, and that ruins him. If he's got a coach around that knows football and will tell him to shut the hell up, he gets good results. Look at how many of the current productive Cowboys were brought in by Parcells. Going from him to Wade "Yuk Yuk" Phillips... yeah.
 
2013-04-24 04:59:14 PM

rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense)

huh....that would be kind of a fun metric to play with.  like, go back the last 10 years and, using the playoff teams and then championship round teams, determine their "___st in rushing and/or total offense + their team defense" number.  you'd think team with lower numbers would be the best, right?  and obviously, the 31st (worst) offense and shiatty defense would have higer numbers.

but then also, you'd have that goofy number from a few years ago where the Pats were always at the top of the offensive rankings but DFL for team defense, but still had a good playoff run.

i'll try to remember to track that.  that could be kinda cool.


I did some preliminary research on that. Playoff position didn't necessarily correlate directly (since bad teams can make the playoffs in bad divisions) but the team that won the Superbowl was top 5 in both offense and defense, in nearly every occasion.
 
2013-04-24 05:04:02 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: No, I agree, they painted themselves into a corner with Romo. Would be interesting to see if he could have got that same kind of money elsewhere.


I just don't see the problem with the contract. They would have been paying him more if they didn't do it, and he'll never see the full value of it. He's basically one of three guys on the whole team who has produced consistently, and he was un-drafted. I bet if they started shopping Romo right now with that contract as it is, they'd get takers.
 
2013-04-24 05:06:29 PM

ladodger34: You know, the Cowboys totally nailed the draft when Jimmy Johnson was the de-facto GM.  What have they done since then?


Because Jimmy Johnson was drafting players that he probably tried to recruit as a college coach.
 
2013-04-24 05:09:11 PM

IAmRight: /Freeman isn't that bad but he should be better with that run game, OL, and Vincent Jackson


Yes, Freeman IS that bad.  After all, we can't give Freeman a pass for his poor decision making skills while we crucify Romo for his.

So it looks like we're back to talking about the Cowboys all the time now?  I'm starting to miss last year when we had the Saints to distract us.
 
2013-04-24 05:10:26 PM

Treygreen13: rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense)

huh....that would be kind of a fun metric to play with.  like, go back the last 10 years and, using the playoff teams and then championship round teams, determine their "___st in rushing and/or total offense + their team defense" number.  you'd think team with lower numbers would be the best, right?  and obviously, the 31st (worst) offense and shiatty defense would have higer numbers.

but then also, you'd have that goofy number from a few years ago where the Pats were always at the top of the offensive rankings but DFL for team defense, but still had a good playoff run.

i'll try to remember to track that.  that could be kinda cool.

I did some preliminary research on that. Playoff position didn't necessarily correlate directly (since bad teams can make the playoffs in bad divisions) but the team that won the Superbowl was top 5 in both offense and defense, in nearly every occasion.


Like selecting Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson?
 
2013-04-24 05:12:05 PM

Treygreen13: (since bad teams can make the playoffs in bad divisions)


true.  hard to argue that however well both SFO and SEA played against "quality" teams, 4 games each vs Arizona and STL helped their cumulative numbers.


Treygreen13: but the team that won the Superbowl was top 5 in both offense and defense, in nearly every occasion.


and then there's that, too.

either way, that would be fun to track.  GODAMMIT I CAN'T WAIT FOR FOOTBALL!  THE GANG'S ALL HERE!
 
2013-04-24 05:12:10 PM

riverwalk barfly: Treygreen13: rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense)

huh....that would be kind of a fun metric to play with.  like, go back the last 10 years and, using the playoff teams and then championship round teams, determine their "___st in rushing and/or total offense + their team defense" number.  you'd think team with lower numbers would be the best, right?  and obviously, the 31st (worst) offense and shiatty defense would have higer numbers.

but then also, you'd have that goofy number from a few years ago where the Pats were always at the top of the offensive rankings but DFL for team defense, but still had a good playoff run.

i'll try to remember to track that.  that could be kinda cool.

I did some preliminary research on that. Playoff position didn't necessarily correlate directly (since bad teams can make the playoffs in bad divisions) but the team that won the Superbowl was top 5 in both offense and defense, in nearly every occasion.

Like selecting Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson?


Sorry -was responding to Bill Parcells drafts...
 
2013-04-24 05:13:07 PM

Slow To Return: IAmRight: /Freeman isn't that bad but he should be better with that run game, OL, and Vincent Jackson

Yes, Freeman IS that bad.  After all, we can't give Freeman a pass for his poor decision making skills while we crucify Romo for his.

So it looks like we're back to talking about the Cowboys all the time now?  I'm starting to miss last year when we had the Saints to distract us.


Ask whatever modmin approved this.

riverwalk barfly: Like selecting Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson?


Fun fact, the Dallas Cowboys last 1,000 yard rusher? Julius Jones. In 2006.

But we can do the "BUT THEY COULD HAVE HAD X INSTEAD OF Y" for all teams, every year.
 
2013-04-24 05:13:57 PM
The author makes the point well of what I consider to be the classic typical Jerry Jones-ego fueled draft mistake.

He falls in love with a "can't miss" player that he has to have and he does virtually anything to get him...including over-trading picks or future picks to make it happen.

You can't keep trading your later round picks in a salary capped sport when those players are really cap friendly.

On a related note...

Dear Jerry Jones,

Please sell the Cowboys and Ruin Buy the Houston Texans.

Thanks,

Colts Fans
 
2013-04-24 05:15:44 PM

rickythepenguin: either way, that would be fun to track.  GODAMMIT I CAN'T WAIT FOR FOOTBALL!  THE GANG'S ALL HERE!


You'll get some pushback on how you measure offense/defense and how the numbers can be massaged to give whatever you want. However, since you only have to do the numbers once at the end of the season, it could be an interesting exercise.

riverwalk barfly: riverwalk barfly: Treygreen13: rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense)

huh....that would be kind of a fun metric to play with.  like, go back the last 10 years and, using the playoff teams and then championship round teams, determine their "___st in rushing and/or total offense + their team defense" number.  you'd think team with lower numbers would be the best, right?  and obviously, the 31st (worst) offense and shiatty defense would have higer numbers.

but then also, you'd have that goofy number from a few years ago where the Pats were always at the top of the offensive rankings but DFL for team defense, but still had a good playoff run.

i'll try to remember to track that.  that could be kinda cool.

I did some preliminary research on that. Playoff position didn't necessarily correlate directly (since bad teams can make the playoffs in bad divisions) but the team that won the Superbowl was top 5 in both offense and defense, in nearly every occasion.

Like selecting Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson?

Sorry -was responding to Bill Parcells drafts...


I figured as much. I think Parcells time here was overrated. Technically the winningest Cowboys coach in recent memory was Mr. dur-dur-dur Wade Phillips. But it was clear that there was a point where he had to go.
 
2013-04-24 05:15:55 PM

Slow To Return: So it looks like we're back to talking about the Cowboys all the time now? I'm starting to miss last year when we had the Saints to distract us.



Hmmm.......saints got the first half of the season but the second half was probably mainly about SFO and SEA, in my opinion.  RAWR NFC WEST IS OVERRATED, THEY CAN'T DO IT IN PLAYOFFS, RAWRRR.

in a QB thread, Romo gets chirped up a lot but that's mainly because of the prominent farkers who are 'Boys fans.  like my girl Di.
 
2013-04-24 05:16:56 PM

riverwalk barfly: Treygreen13: rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense)

huh....that would be kind of a fun metric to play with.  like, go back the last 10 years and, using the playoff teams and then championship round teams, determine their "___st in rushing and/or total offense + their team defense" number.  you'd think team with lower numbers would be the best, right?  and obviously, the 31st (worst) offense and shiatty defense would have higer numbers.

but then also, you'd have that goofy number from a few years ago where the Pats were always at the top of the offensive rankings but DFL for team defense, but still had a good playoff run.

i'll try to remember to track that.  that could be kinda cool.

I did some preliminary research on that. Playoff position didn't necessarily correlate directly (since bad teams can make the playoffs in bad divisions) but the team that won the Superbowl was top 5 in both offense and defense, in nearly every occasion.

Like selecting Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson?


Actually they got Spears instead of Jackson, Jones was a later pick-up
 
2013-04-24 05:16:58 PM

Captain Steroid: The Cowboys have been on a bad streak ever since the year they drafted Charlie Brown in the first round.

[i1182.photobucket.com image 400x344]


......

You're better than that, Cap'n.
 
2013-04-24 05:18:02 PM

rickythepenguin: in a QB thread, Romo gets chirped up a lot but that's mainly because of the prominent farkers who are 'Boys fans.  like my girl Di.


We rarely bring Tony up. Usually it's comments in defense of him, when someone bags on him out of nowhere.
 
2013-04-24 05:21:47 PM

Treygreen13: rickythepenguin: in a QB thread, Romo gets chirped up a lot but that's mainly because of the prominent farkers who are 'Boys fans.  like my girl Di.

We rarely bring Tony up. Usually it's comments in defense of him, when someone bags on him out of nowhere.


Great point...cause Romo never gives people ammunition to bag on him...it always comes out of nowhere.

/Continue white knighting
 
2013-04-24 05:22:02 PM

Treygreen13: I think Parcells time here was overrated.



i think Parcells is overrated period.  he gets credit for rebuilding four franchises, when, hello, ok, he took the jets to a playoff run one year, but then they turned to shiat quickly, and then as Dolphins GM, they made like, one playoff appearance.

he's charismatic and media friendly.  he plays that gruff exterior stuff but you know he likes the give and take.  sportswriters love that shiat.  he had that avuncular vibe.  very good football coach but his name gets thrown around like vince lombardi.
 
2013-04-24 05:24:19 PM

Treygreen13: We rarely bring Tony up. Usually it's comments in defense of him, when someone bags on him out of nowhere.



yeah, that's what i'm saying though.  you guys are rarely the ones brinign him up, but when his punk card gets pulled, the conversation becomes Romocentric.  and inevitably, the moment he goes Operation Codename:  Tony Romo, the entire thread gets Romojacked.

and that's fine.  i'd do the same if my team was under attack.  i get it.
 
2013-04-24 05:35:38 PM

Coach_J: Great point...cause Romo never gives people ammunition to bag on him...it always comes out of nowhere.

/Continue white knighting


The irony in his statement is that he routinely "bags" on the only two-time Super Bowl MVP in the NFC East.  Out of nowhere.

/glass house, throwing stones, etc
 
2013-04-24 05:37:35 PM

rickythepenguin: yeah, that's what i'm saying though.  you guys are rarely the ones brinign him up, but when his punk card gets pulled, the conversation becomes Romocentric.  and inevitably, the moment he goes Operation Codename:  Tony Romo, the entire thread gets Romojacked.


That's because I've spent years here honing my arguments for him. And Di wants to bang him.
 
2013-04-24 05:44:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxNeFL uY98
 
2013-04-24 06:10:20 PM

Di Atribe: Captain Steroid: The Cowboys have been on a bad streak ever since the year they drafted Charlie Brown in the first round.

[i1182.photobucket.com image 400x344]

......

You're better than that, Cap'n.


Hmmm... I dunno...

What do you think, Magic 8-Ball? >.>

i1182.photobucket.com

Truer words have never been spoken. -.-
 
2013-04-24 06:10:55 PM
No one brought up the Jets?  ESPN had a whole piece on how they've been terrible at drafting for 20 years (can't confirm or deny myself, but the sound bytes of people booing during the Jets' picks were numerous).
 
2013-04-24 06:12:52 PM

NaziKamikaze: No one brought up the Jets?  ESPN had a whole piece on how they've been terrible at drafting for 20 years (can't confirm or deny myself, but the sound bytes of people booing during the Jets' picks were numerous).


ESPN brings them up enough for everybody.
 
2013-04-24 06:18:48 PM

Treygreen13: rickythepenguin: yeah, that's what i'm saying though.  you guys are rarely the ones brinign him up, but when his punk card gets pulled, the conversation becomes Romocentric.  and inevitably, the moment he goes Operation Codename:  Tony Romo, the entire thread gets Romojacked.

That's because I've spent years here honing my arguments for him. And Di wants to bang him.


Y'all know I have more reasons for liking him than "he's dreamy," right? He would still be my favorite player on my favorite team, even if he looked like Peyton Manning. I also think Tebow's a dreamboat, but I ain't tryin to get him on our team. I ain't even tryin to hear that boy talk. Just run through some sprinklers & STFU.

I mean technically, it is true that I want to bang Romo until the USGS steps in, but that's fairly benign compared to the level at which I will drop kick your face if you make stupid, subjective, emotional, unsubstantiated arguments about him. I swear, I've never seen so many grown men dead set on talking about their FEELINGS. Waaaaaaah I hate the Cowboys and Jerry Jones is old! I once knew a Cowboys fan and he was mean! I'm so tired of everyone making all football threads about the Cowboys! Why can't we talk about Tom Brady some more? Wonk wonk!

If you can't make an objective argument, then save it for your therapist because Fark don't care.
 
2013-04-24 06:20:03 PM

Captain Steroid: Truer words have never been spoken. -.-


See now that was funny. I told you.
 
2013-04-24 06:20:46 PM

Di Atribe: He would still be my favorite player on my favorite team, even if he looked like Peyton Manning



I dub thee Lady O'Snapley, duchess of biatchslappia.
 
2013-04-24 06:23:27 PM

Di Atribe: Captain Steroid: The Cowboys have been on a bad streak ever since the year they drafted Charlie Brown in the first round.

[i1182.photobucket.com image 400x344]

......

You're better than that, Cap'n.


Dont fark with the Cap'n Di or he will turn every damned Cowboy thread from here to eternity into a pony picture thread. Is that what you want?  Pony Romo threads?
 
2013-04-24 06:26:16 PM

mikaloyd: Pony Romo threads?


well in fairness, according to Di, he already is Tony "Baloney", the all-night pony.
 
2013-04-24 06:30:59 PM

mikaloyd: Dont fark with the Cap'n Di or he will turn every damned Cowboy thread from here to eternity into a pony picture thread. Is that what you want? Pony Romo threads?


I ain't fraid o' no posts.
 
2013-04-24 06:44:06 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: tobcc: Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better

Beat  me to it, I was going to mention how KC will blow the first round draft this year.

Heh, it'll be really hard to screw the first pick up between Fisher and Joekel, but we'll find a way to trade back 15 spots and pick up Geno Smith and Manti Te'o instead.

/Please don't


As a Raider fan I want to poke fun and say "I hope you do get those guys". But then I remember the last ten years.

/hangs head
//Don't worry buddy, it'll get better!
 
2013-04-24 07:01:33 PM

rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: (since bad teams can make the playoffs in bad divisions)

true.  hard to argue that however well both SFO and SEA played against "quality" teams, 4 games each vs Arizona and STL helped their cumulative numbers.


You mean that STL team that inexplicably went 4-1-1 against the division last season?

/Farking Akers
//At least they gave us Kaepernick ahead of schedule.
 
2013-04-24 07:13:34 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Rwa2play: Jim from Saint Paul: [thepigskindoctors.com image 512x464]

Throw ENOUGH picks at the wall and you get Emmitt Smith.

And Alvin Harper.

And Darren Woodson.

Well...someone's STILL bitter at that trade.

/Can't blame ya though

Everyone's bitter or this thread wouldn;t exsist.

That trade basically won them multiple Superbowls.


Denny Green can BURN IN HELL for that one trade.
 
2013-04-24 07:16:21 PM

IAmRight: rickythepenguin: you can say taking him over ADRIAN PETERSON was dumb

Freshman year: dislocated shoulder
Sophomore year: high ankle sprain
Junior year: broken collarbone

As a pro? Only ever really missed time in one season (ACL). Beanie Wells? Minor foot injury his junior year that caused him to miss a couple of games but came back and killed it in the next couple of weeks.

/which is why it's tough to go with "injury prone" as a reason for not taking a guy
//of course, if the injuries continue, then you look like a moron


Agreed. Who could have predicted that AP would go All-Madden every freaking year in the NFL based on his (limited) playing time in college, and would have a miracle comeback from an ACL?
 
2013-04-24 08:23:58 PM

rickythepenguin: neuroflare: I know the Cards are (were, since the regime changed) good at drafting defenders, at least recently. Offense, however, left much to be desired.

ehhh........the o line draft picks weren't awful.  Davis (denny green) was played out of position so that isn't his fault.  dallas played him where...


Not commenting on any point in particular here, just keeping the quote small and inoffensive to the thread readers.

I was on my lunch break and didn't really have time to go into particulars when I posted that. I think the o-line is much better than given credit for, both tackles were decent to good at the end of the season, and with getting Levi back, maybe drafting gone of the tackles or Warmack it looks like the line should be pretty solid. I think the RB's haven't been that good, Wells had one good season and got hurt constantly, L'il Sweetness can't stay off of iR either. The team had a pretty solid receiving corps under Whiz/Graves, Housler and Floyd do look very promising.

Now that I think more on it, the team's drafting wasn't the problem, it was free agency and trading. Kolb trade aside, do you realize how much they paid Adam farking Snyder? This is why we need more linemen, if they get rid of his ass for Warmack it's suddenly legit, I believe.
 
2013-04-24 08:55:31 PM

ClavellBCMI: Agreed. Who could have predicted that AP would go All-Madden every freaking year in the NFL based on his (limited) playing time in college, and would have a miracle comeback from an ACL?


He has access to better HGH in the pros than he did in college.
 
2013-04-24 09:21:45 PM

Di Atribe: I mean technically, it is true that I want to bang Romo until the USGS steps in, but that's fairly benign compared to the level at which I will drop kick your face if you make stupid, subjective, emotional, unsubstantiated arguments about him. I swear, I've never seen so many grown men dead set on talking about their FEELINGS. Waaaaaaah I hate the Cowboys and Jerry Jones is old! I once knew a Cowboys fan and he was mean! I'm so tired of everyone making all football threads about the Cowboys! Why can't we talk about Tom Brady some more? Wonk wonk!

If you can't make an objective argument, then save it for your therapist because Fark don't care


It's football. Objectivity has nothing to do with it. If it did fully half of the teams would have no fans because who wants to see a lousy team week in and week out? Football is about hope for my team and loathing for yours.

Stop taking it so personally.
 
2013-04-24 09:32:47 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Di Atribe: I mean technically, it is true that I want to bang Romo until the USGS steps in, but that's fairly benign compared to the level at which I will drop kick your face if you make stupid, subjective, emotional, unsubstantiated arguments about him. I swear, I've never seen so many grown men dead set on talking about their FEELINGS. Waaaaaaah I hate the Cowboys and Jerry Jones is old! I once knew a Cowboys fan and he was mean! I'm so tired of everyone making all football threads about the Cowboys! Why can't we talk about Tom Brady some more? Wonk wonk!

If you can't make an objective argument, then save it for your therapist because Fark don't care

It's football. Objectivity has nothing to do with it. If it did fully half of the teams would have no fans because who wants to see a lousy team week in and week out? Football is about hope for my team and loathing for yours.

Stop taking it so personally.


You don't seem smart enough to A) understand statistics or B) understand that my diatribe up there was meant to be humorous.

To be fair, Trey did make a statement about me personally, but that's as far as taking anything "personally" goes.

Be honest, the only reason you hate me is because of your hatred for the Cowboys, and therefore America. Do they have therapists in your Fascist wonderland? You have some feelings you need to deal with, Bad Adolf.
 
2013-04-24 09:40:26 PM

Di Atribe: Be honest, the only reason you hate me is because of your hatred for the Cowboys, and therefore America. Do they have therapists in your Fascist wonderland? You have some feelings you need to deal with, Bad Adolf.


I don't hate you even a little bit. On the other hand, I LOVE getting you spun up about the Cowboys, largely because I despise them. You are one of the most vocal Cowboys fans, and as such you get a disproportionate amount of my abuse, but in the end I don't have anything against you other than your shiatty taste in football teams.
 
2013-04-24 09:55:28 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Di Atribe: Be honest, the only reason you hate me is because of your hatred for the Cowboys, and therefore America. Do they have therapists in your Fascist wonderland? You have some feelings you need to deal with, Bad Adolf.

I don't hate you even a little bit. On the other hand, I LOVE getting you spun up about the Cowboys, largely because I despise them. You are one of the most vocal Cowboys fans, and as such you get a disproportionate amount of my abuse, but in the end I don't have anything against you other than your shiatty taste in football teams.


I can appreciate & laugh at that. Be good, Bad Adolf.
 
2013-04-24 10:10:47 PM
if the cowboys are bad, then so are the Steelers

Something like 24 out of 50, and only 18 of 26 from last 3 years,
and that's being generous
(including resignings of players that they have cut or let go and come back
to them via F/A  like Gay, Spaeth, etc.... and then there's Spence, who
rumors are will never play again)

So more realistically they are like 20 out of 50 (40% compared to Dallas' 38.x%)

Can we finally put this Steelers draft genius nonsense to bed?
 
2013-04-24 10:13:11 PM
Trollhawks: Skipping the first round, to try and let everyone else catch up.
 
2013-04-24 10:31:00 PM

Treygreen13: Slow To Return: IAmRight: /Freeman isn't that bad but he should be better with that run game, OL, and Vincent Jackson

Yes, Freeman IS that bad.  After all, we can't give Freeman a pass for his poor decision making skills while we crucify Romo for his.

So it looks like we're back to talking about the Cowboys all the time now?  I'm starting to miss last year when we had the Saints to distract us.

Ask whatever modmin approved this.

riverwalk barfly: Like selecting Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson?

Fun fact, the Dallas Cowboys last 1,000 yard rusher? Julius Jones. In 2006.


That surprises me. For a while it seemed like every time the Cowboys played the Skins, Marion Barber would rush for crazy huge yards. It led to me being irrationally terrified when ever Barber got the ball against the Skins. I expect the stats probably don't back that up, but by eye test I would have totally assumed the Barbarian got close to 1k
 
2013-04-24 11:45:35 PM
Welcome to Day 364 of 2013 Draft Predictions.  Be sure to tune in for day 1 of their post-draft analysis followed by day 1 of their 2014 NFL Draft Predictions.

/Like an Alzheimer's patient, I'll tune in SportsCenter on occasion before I'm reminded why I stopped watching.  I get that football pays the bills, is a ratings giant, and MNF is expensive, but "overkill," guys.
 
2013-04-25 02:44:09 AM
wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net
 
2013-04-25 09:16:26 AM

Slow To Return: Yes, Freeman IS that bad.  After all, we can't give Freeman a pass for his poor decision making skills while we crucify Romo for his.


I don't consider Romo as bad as people make him out to be, either.

riverwalk barfly: Like selecting Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson?


Stephen Jackson plays in the NBA - you should know, he was most recently with the Spurs. Steven Jackson was the solid RB for the Rams. But back in those days, no one took Pac-10 RBs seriously (unless they were from USC).
 
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