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6309 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Apr 2013 at 2:28 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 02:06:34 PM
Are the Cowboys just bad at the draft?
 
2013-04-24 02:36:14 PM
yes indeed.
 
2013-04-24 02:37:37 PM
+1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better
 
2013-04-24 02:38:11 PM
The best thing for the Cowboys would be for Jerry Jones to drop dead tonight.
 
2013-04-24 02:44:43 PM
thepigskindoctors.com

Throw ENOUGH picks at the wall and you get Emmitt Smith.

And Alvin Harper.

And Darren Woodson.
 
2013-04-24 02:44:53 PM
They have a very shiatty GM.
 
2013-04-24 02:47:20 PM
You know, the Cowboys totally nailed the draft when Jimmy Johnson was the de-facto GM.  What have they done since then?
 
2013-04-24 02:47:27 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better


Beat  me to it, I was going to mention how KC will blow the first round draft this year.
 
2013-04-24 02:48:54 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: [thepigskindoctors.com image 512x464]

Throw ENOUGH picks at the wall and you get Emmitt Smith.

And Alvin Harper.

And Darren Woodson.


Well...someone's STILL bitter at that trade.

/Can't blame ya though
 
2013-04-24 02:49:26 PM

tobcc: Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better

Beat  me to it, I was going to mention how KC will blow the first round draft this year.


Heh, it'll be really hard to screw the first pick up between Fisher and Joekel, but we'll find a way to trade back 15 spots and pick up Geno Smith and Manti Te'o instead.

/Please don't
 
2013-04-24 02:52:53 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: Not that KC is much better


Now that you have Andy Reid, you're going to get to see what a terrible draft REALLY looks like.
 
2013-04-24 02:55:45 PM
They follow the Joe Dumars philosophy of drafting untalented people no one's ever heard of.
 
2013-04-24 02:58:30 PM
I know the Cards are (were, since the regime changed) good at drafting defenders, at least recently. Offense, however, left much to be desired.
 
2013-04-24 02:59:24 PM
Not a huge fan of "oh, they could've gotten *random player x who happens to have worked out for whatever team he went to* if they'd kept that pick!" bullsh*t.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9202430/bill-barnwell-inconsiste nc y-nfl-draft

Since that covers pretty much all of my points, I'll just direct you to the article itself.
 
2013-04-24 02:59:43 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: tobcc: Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better

Beat  me to it, I was going to mention how KC will blow the first round draft this year.

Heh, it'll be really hard to screw the first pick up between Fisher and Joekel, but we'll find a way to trade back 15 spots and pick up Geno Smith and Manti Te'o instead.

/Please don't


Andy Reid for awhile had a great run in the draft. He did hit 2 year bad stretch though that hurt him. Also, he didn't shift his D drafting as well to realize that his coordinators weren't as awesome as Jim Johnson.
/also, Daniel Bryan
 
2013-04-24 03:00:37 PM

Rwa2play: Jim from Saint Paul: [thepigskindoctors.com image 512x464]

Throw ENOUGH picks at the wall and you get Emmitt Smith.

And Alvin Harper.

And Darren Woodson.

Well...someone's STILL bitter at that trade.

/Can't blame ya though


Everyone's bitter or this thread wouldn;t exsist.

That trade basically won them multiple Superbowls.
 
2013-04-24 03:02:39 PM

IAmRight: Not a huge fan of "oh, they could've gotten *random player x who happens to have worked out for whatever team he went to* if they'd kept that pick!" bullsh*t.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9202430/bill-barnwell-inconsiste nc y-nfl-draft

Since that covers pretty much all of my points, I'll just direct you to the article itself.


I am suggesting that they got ass tons of picks.

If you have ass tons of pics you will hit on some of them.
 
2013-04-24 03:06:41 PM

Krymson Tyde: They have a very shiatty GM.

 
2013-04-24 03:07:34 PM
The Cowboys have been on a bad streak ever since the year they drafted Charlie Brown in the first round.

i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-04-24 03:07:44 PM
It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.
 
2013-04-24 03:07:56 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: I am suggesting that they got ass tons of picks.

If you have ass tons of pics you will hit on some of them.


I was referring to the article - obviously you are correct regarding the "get lots of picks, some are bound to work" theory of drafting.
 
2013-04-24 03:08:51 PM

Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.


It's way funnier to envision him alone just watching on TV and calling in his picks, though.
 
2013-04-24 03:10:26 PM

Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.


Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.
 
2013-04-24 03:14:42 PM

IAmRight: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

It's way funnier to envision him alone just watching on TV and calling in his picks, though.


I can see it now. Jerry just watching the draft and waiting until they say a guy went to Arkansas, and then frantically calling down to the draft guys to take that guy.

The article makes some good points, but some of them are sort of contradictory. "The Cowboys don't draft well. They gave away their 2nd round pick last year, but in previous drafts they got drafted great players in the 2nd and 3rd round."

Going back to the 2009 draft, we see where these numbers can start to be skewed. In 2009, the Cowboys didn't have a pick in the first 2 rounds. It's not like any team expects 10 of their 4th round or later picks to all stick with the team.

Since then, they've gotten Dez Bryant and Sean Lee in 2010, Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter, and Demarco Murray in 2011, and Morris Claiborne & Tyrone Crawford in 2012. Not a terrible haul.
 
2013-04-24 03:17:25 PM

Incorrigible Astronaut: +1 subby, would LOL again.

/Not that KC is much better


At least they got Leon Sandcastle
 
2013-04-24 03:25:26 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.


deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-24 03:28:13 PM

Treygreen13: The article makes some good points, but some of them are sort of contradictory. "The Cowboys don't draft well. They gave away their 2nd round pick last year, but in previous drafts they got drafted great players in the 2nd and 3rd round."


Of course they are - I should make a flow chart about how to criticize/praise other teams' drafts based on whether you like said team or not.

Basically it all comes down to finding everyone who is good that was picked later than that pick and pretending that they could've/would've drafted 'em all and they'd all have been successful for a different team with different coaches and different schemes.
 
2013-04-24 03:28:37 PM

neuroflare: I know the Cards are (were, since the regime changed) good at drafting defenders, at least recently. Offense, however, left much to be desired.


ehhh........the o line draft picks weren't awful.  Davis (denny green) was played out of position so that isn't his fault.  dallas played him where he belonged and all he did then was go to the pro bowl.  the WR corps wsa pretty good;  it isn't like we took Doucet super high.  he was who we thought he was.  Floyd and Roberts have shown flashes, but also been limited by the CAPTAIN OBVIOUS APPROACHING, horrid QB sitch.  and what's his nuts, levi brown i think, yeah, you can say taking him over ADRIAN PETERSON was dumb, which it was, but he's been serviceable.  underperformed versus where he was drafted, but he hasn't been a bust.

Beanie wells.....all i can say is there is a reason he was available at #29 overall that year.  we needed RB and he was the smart pick.  in retrospect, not a good decision but hard to argue, at the time, it was a bad pick.  hindsight is always 20/20.  the new RB, you can't foresee a preseason ACL (2011) and then another season ending injury in what, Week 5 (2012).  shiat happens.

obviously, Whiz and Graves continuously tapdanced on his dick re QB.  to put it charitably.

on the whole, though, i'd say the offensive draft has been ok.  i gues we can argue what "left much to be desired" versus my "it has been ok" standard means.  some grave errorts (no pun intended) have been made but on the whole, the offensive draft hasn't been awful.  every team in the NFL has a few clunkers and every team in the NFL passed on Wilson, Kaepernick, etc.

conversely, the "can't miss" kids (bradford, that cat in Detroit that looks like bill clinton) havne't exactly lit it up.  or remember 2-3 years ago when no one would shut the fark up about Josh Freeman?
 
2013-04-24 03:36:51 PM

rickythepenguin: you can say taking him over ADRIAN PETERSON was dumb


Freshman year: dislocated shoulder
Sophomore year: high ankle sprain
Junior year: broken collarbone

As a pro? Only ever really missed time in one season (ACL). Beanie Wells? Minor foot injury his junior year that caused him to miss a couple of games but came back and killed it in the next couple of weeks.

/which is why it's tough to go with "injury prone" as a reason for not taking a guy
//of course, if the injuries continue, then you look like a moron
 
2013-04-24 03:39:48 PM

rickythepenguin: conversely, the "can't miss" kids (bradford, that cat in Detroit that looks like bill clinton) havne't exactly lit it up.  or remember 2-3 years ago when no one would shut the fark up about Josh Freeman?


I've been saying he sucked since started. He has Tebow's throwing ability with Mark Sanchez's decision making skills.
 
2013-04-24 03:40:00 PM

Frozboz: Krymson Tyde: They have a very shiatty GM.


at both draft and free agency. shame really. With romo's contract and spencer's franchise tag they are stinking up the off season again. They could of let Spencer go and for the same money they are paying him as a franchised player they could have hired two quality end speed rushers.
 
2013-04-24 03:43:24 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: With romo's contract and spencer's franchise tag


Romo's contract freed up 5 million dollars this year, and they're still working on Spencer's deal.
 
2013-04-24 03:43:54 PM
Josh Freeman had the same thing going on that Tannehill did.

Prior to the draft, people love to talk a lot about the top QB and where he will go. When we find out in advance that the top QB is going to the top team or something like that, or like last year, the top two QBs are going 1-2, then people focus on the third-highest-rated guy and talk about him like he's at that level.

/Freeman isn't that bad but he should be better with that run game, OL, and Vincent Jackson
 
2013-04-24 03:46:32 PM
If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.
 
2013-04-24 03:51:29 PM

TheManofPA: to realize that his coordinators weren't as awesome as Jim Johnson


Jim Johnson was the only reason the Iggles were as good as they were under Andy.  You can see what happened when he was no longer able to be there.
 
2013-04-24 03:52:14 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.


He could hire bobbleheads for a lot less money.
 
2013-04-24 03:55:50 PM

Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.


His last name is probably creating some issues. "What the f*ck? We're paying this guy? It says right here he's free - no sense in letting him go if he's not costing us anything. We really have to pay him?"
 
2013-04-24 03:57:34 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Jim from Saint Paul: Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.

Right. The yes men he hires are in there telling him how awesome he is too. Solid point.

He could hire bobbleheads for a lot less money.


For war room laughs, he should have an empty chair next to him and a Jimmy Johnson bobblehead on the table.
 
2013-04-24 04:00:14 PM

Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.


Also, I'll point out that recent "offseason winner" teams like the 2011 Eagles and the Snyder Redskins didn't exactly translate any of that into on-field success.
 
2013-04-24 04:23:19 PM

IAmRight: Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.

His last name is probably creating some issues. "What the f*ck? We're paying this guy? It says right here he's free - no sense in letting him go if he's not costing us anything. We really have to pay him?"


Just fix the glitch and let the problem take care of itself

centralpagazelle.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-04-24 04:24:54 PM

Treygreen13: TrainingWheelsNeeded: With romo's contract and spencer's franchise tag

Romo's contract freed up 5 million dollars this year, and they're still working on Spencer's deal.


Sure, but they really hamstrung their re-negotiating ability. I think they are paying over market value for Romo. He is Dallas' best option but poor drafting and grooming allowed Tony and his agent to clean up.

As to Spencer, the free agent market was flooded with speed rushers who just a year or two ago were pro bowlers and who are being signed this season for 3-4 million per. If no agreement is made soon they will pay him around 10 mil. for the year. If a deal is made you have Spencer, 28, who has been a little inconsistent at best.
 
2013-04-24 04:31:23 PM

Treygreen13: It should be noted that, while Jerry Jones can be an idiot and likes to be involved in the draft, it's not just Jerry sitting in a room by himself making calls.


Good point - there are a few other guys who kiss his ass and tell him what a great choice he's making.
 
2013-04-24 04:33:28 PM
CBS Sports Radio just had a quick 1 minute blurb about Michael Jordan being a bad owner and that owners don't blame or fire themselves - and used Jerry Jones as the current leading example.  Seems relevant here.
 
2013-04-24 04:38:07 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Sure, but they really hamstrung their re-negotiating ability. I think they are paying over market value for Romo. He is Dallas' best option but poor drafting and grooming allowed Tony and his agent to clean up.


I disagree. I think Romo would get that from someone else. That's the problem for Dallas, though. They know the team is abysmal at every other facet of the game (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense) and that with a free agent QB they're a 4-12 team. Their poor salary cap management put them in the position that they have to renegotiate with Romo to get under the contract, so Romo and his agent said, "Alright, pay us what a team falling all over themselves for a QB would pay."

Dallas had three options. Trade Romo and start Kyle Orton (which you know they won't do), don't renegotiate and start cutting guys to make up for the 5 million gap (which just makes the team worse), or pay Romo and push the cap hell back another year. They did what they had to do.

TrainingWheelsNeeded: As to Spencer, the free agent market was flooded with speed rushers who just a year or two ago were pro bowlers and who are being signed this season for 3-4 million per. If no agreement is made soon they will pay him around 10 mil. for the year. If a deal is made you have Spencer, 28, who has been a little inconsistent at best.


Last numbers I heard had the renegotiation at 8 mil a year. Which, while certainly is a little high, isn't an egregious over-payment like Doug Free. He led the team in tackles, had 11 sacks, and made the Pro Bowl.
 
2013-04-24 04:40:32 PM

IAmRight: Treygreen13: If any contract should be described as "losing the offseason" it's doing anything but telling Doug Free to go pound sand.

His last name is probably creating some issues. "What the f*ck? We're paying this guy? It says right here he's free - no sense in letting him go if he's not costing us anything. We really have to pay him?"


imgs.xkcd.com

I'm picturing this situation but in the payroll department.
 
2013-04-24 04:41:18 PM
*under the cap, not under the contract
 
2013-04-24 04:41:25 PM
Honestly the drafting hasn't been terrible (its not like they drafted JWalrus or anything stupid).  Some of the draft picks have managed to get hurt a lot though.  Free agency and keeping under preforming players for big money is where Jerry Jones fails at being a GM.
 
2013-04-24 04:43:54 PM

ShadowKamui: Honestly the drafting hasn't been terrible (its not like they drafted JWalrus or anything stupid).  Some of the draft picks have managed to get hurt a lot though.  Free agency and keeping under preforming players for big money is where Jerry Jones fails at being a GM.


The injuries have been an issue. There was a period where they were lucky with injuries, but this last season the entire interior of their 3-4 defense was seemingly on IR or week to week. Injuries are a problem for everyone, but the Cows got hit really hard in that aspect.
 
2013-04-24 04:52:45 PM

Treygreen13: (31st in rushing and 23rd in defense)


huh....that would be kind of a fun metric to play with.  like, go back the last 10 years and, using the playoff teams and then championship round teams, determine their "___st in rushing and/or total offense + their team defense" number.  you'd think team with lower numbers would be the best, right?  and obviously, the 31st (worst) offense and shiatty defense would have higer numbers.

but then also, you'd have that goofy number from a few years ago where the Pats were always at the top of the offensive rankings but DFL for team defense, but still had a good playoff run.

i'll try to remember to track that.  that could be kinda cool.
 
2013-04-24 04:53:29 PM
I have no real experience drafting except in Madden. If I draft bad in the game, I just go in and edit the stats. Can't Jerry with all his millions do that?

/Dolphins had some shiat drafting years. Holy Christ we chose Ted Ginn Jr. in the first round.....GINN!
 
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