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(Yahoo)   Missouri mom goes on trial for beating up her son's heroin dealer. Difficulty: Defense has trouble seating impartial jurors   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 88
    More: Hero, Missouri, St. Louis, heroin dealer, jury pool, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, heroin, mom  
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13312 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Apr 2013 at 11:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 12:14:10 PM

Bravo Two: Rapmaster2000: Bravo Two: Sin_City_Superhero: Bravo Two: i love how there're people on Fark and elsewhere that would convict her.

Me too. She assaulted the guy with a bat. She gets a trial to determine if she is guilty. That is a courtesy she did not extend to her victim. Regardless of your feelings, we do NOT condone vigilantee justice in this country. She is not the police, judge, jury, and enforcer. We pay taxes to pay for a comprehensive justice system...cops, attorneys, judges, jailers, etc. She should've let them do their job.

And from the article, it sounds like this asshat dealer was in and out of the joint more often than my penis is in and out of your mom. There comes a point where they don't just learn.

You sound like the right guy for my team.  Can you swing a sack of door knobs?  We have sacks available, but you've got to supply your own knobs.

*hefts viking longsword* fark a bunch of doorknobs.


I just saw a movie on netflix with.. Nick Cage?  where his wife was raped and he joined some secret vigilante community group that goes around kills bad people.  Sort of like dexter, but more execution style and more frequent.
 
2013-04-24 12:14:14 PM
She was convicted of third-degree assault.

auto-play video warning.

She's looking at probation or up to a year and/or up to $1000.
 
2013-04-24 12:14:33 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Why beat the dealer? Beat up your son who is the one actually abusing the substance. Or yourself, for raising a farking junkie.


Yes, because it's completely her fault, right? No one ever goes out and does something bad, or gets hooked by trying something a friend offered, and then couldn't get off it? Right. You used to be cool.
 
2013-04-24 12:18:26 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Bravo Two: And from the article, it sounds like this asshat dealer was in and out of the joint

So what? Are you saying that ex-cons don't deserve any civil liberties, or protection under the law? Look, I'm not pro-heroine, or anything, and I'll agree that the guy is scum, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't get to enjoy the same rights as you and I. For that matter, what gives YOU the right to determine what crimes should be punished by a baseball bat beating? What if someone decides that YOU'RE doing something that warrants a beating?


Not saying you're wrong on this, but I'm not saying you're right.

We live in this weird society where there's some gray area. Is it preferable that this guy get taken care of, Skidmore style? No. It's preferable that the legal system take care of him. They didn't. The mother apparently did quite a bit to try and stop her son's heroin abuse, and was at her wit's end. I don't care for it, but as far as "criminal intent" goes, we're not talking much here. I don't see her as some overarching menace to the system of law and order we have in this state.
 
2013-04-24 12:19:33 PM

Bravo Two [TotalFark]

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Why beat the dealer? Beat up your son who is the one actually abusing the substance. Or yourself, for raising a farking junkie.

Yes, because it's completely her fault, right? No one ever goes out and does something bad, or gets hooked by trying something a friend offered, and then couldn't get off it? Right. You used to be cool.


As an exjunkie, i can tell you it's MONTHS of daily use to get physically addicted the first time. After that, 3 days of use will do it. Even after rehab.

I also approve of her actions. He'll hopefully live to thank you one day Ma'am.
 
2013-04-24 12:21:02 PM
If any of you actually read TFA, you'll see that her defense is that she only started beating the dealer when he was "reaching" for something in his car...like she thought he had a gun.

Anyway, a third-degree assault in Missouri is a misdemeanor, so max is a year in county and/or a $1000 fine. First time offender, beating up a drug dealer? She'll get probation, or at most, 30 days (probably with work release, too).
 
2013-04-24 12:24:29 PM

Marine1: We live in this weird society where there's some gray area. Is it preferable that this guy get taken care of, Skidmore style? No. It's preferable that the legal system take care of him. They didn't. The mother apparently did quite a bit to try and stop her son's heroin abuse, and was at her wit's end. I don't care for it, but as far as "criminal intent" goes, we're not talking much here. I don't see her as some overarching menace to the system of law and order we have in this state.


I'll agree with that. I'm just saying that we, as a society, can't allow vigilantee justice, no matter how tempting, as it leads to the rule of the mob. Everyone who's ever been wronged in some way (that includes everyone, at some point) will be out for blood.
 
2013-04-24 12:28:00 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Bravo Two: And from the article, it sounds like this asshat dealer was in and out of the joint

So what? Are you saying that ex-cons don't deserve any civil liberties, or protection under the law? Look, I'm not pro-heroine, or anything, and I'll agree that the guy is scum, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't get to enjoy the same rights as you and I. For that matter, what gives YOU the right to determine what crimes should be punished by a baseball bat beating? What if someone decides that YOU'RE doing something that warrants a beating?


Perhaps, as a hard-drug dealer he gets a few extra rights. One of them is the right to enjoy regular beatings with a baseball bat.
 
2013-04-24 12:30:24 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Marine1: We live in this weird society where there's some gray area. Is it preferable that this guy get taken care of, Skidmore style? No. It's preferable that the legal system take care of him. They didn't. The mother apparently did quite a bit to try and stop her son's heroin abuse, and was at her wit's end. I don't care for it, but as far as "criminal intent" goes, we're not talking much here. I don't see her as some overarching menace to the system of law and order we have in this state.

I'll agree with that. I'm just saying that we, as a society, can't allow vigilantee justice, no matter how tempting, as it leads to the rule of the mob. Everyone who's ever been wronged in some way (that includes everyone, at some point) will be out for blood.


Eh. I guess. I mean, the dealer was apparently reaching for something in his car during the encounter. Then again, most people don't carry around baseball bats for self-defense. She was probably there to threaten the guy. She's not the problem to me, though.

From what I've been hearing in the news around here (central MO) recently, it seems like heroin is becoming a real problem in the middle and eastern parts of the state.

Prosecutor should work out a bargain with her. Plead guilty, complete an anger management course, and the conviction is wiped after a few years, assuming there are no more incidents. Then again, I don't exactly know how you'd give anger management counseling to someone who was dealing with someone threatening her son's life.

It'd be interesting to see what sort of society we lived in if certain stuff (defined, certain things) came with the possibility of a beating by someone other than the state. Stuff like not paying child support.
 
2013-04-24 12:30:47 PM
The D.A. isn't in a elected position, is s/he?
 
2013-04-24 12:32:18 PM

phyrkrakr: If any of you actually read TFA, you'll see that her defense is that she only started beating the dealer when he was "reaching" for something in his car...like she thought he had a gun.


Where did she think she was - Florida?

I am disappointed. Had I been on that jury, it would have deadlocked.

"The purpose of a jury is to guard against the exercise of arbitrary power -- to make available the commonsense judgment of the community as a hedge against the overzealous or mistaken prosecutor and in preference to the professional or perhaps overconditioned or biased response of a judge."  Justice Byron White
 
2013-04-24 12:33:13 PM

OtherLittleGuy: The D.A. isn't in a elected position, is s/he?


I believe all DAs are elected.
 
2013-04-24 12:35:40 PM
Awwwwww.... Is little snowflake a criminally hardened junkie?? My condolences. Kick him to the curb... make him responsible for his own actions. He is 19 years old... should be out on his own by now.
 
2013-04-24 12:41:27 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Bravo Two: And from the article, it sounds like this asshat dealer was in and out of the joint

So what? Are you saying that ex-cons don't deserve any civil liberties, or protection under the law? Look, I'm not pro-heroine, or anything, and I'll agree that the guy is scum, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't get to enjoy the same rights as you and I. For that matter, what gives YOU the right to determine what crimes should be punished by a baseball bat beating? What if someone decides that YOU'RE doing something that warrants a beating?


if I'm doing something that warrants a beating, then I better damn well expect it coming.

As far as rights under the law...yeah, he's got the right to everything I do under the law, save for those removed explicitly by his convictions.

However, where I come from, if you hurt my family, even by pushing shiat on my family like drugs, then regardless, I'm going to tell you to back the fark off. That may include physical persuasion if you don't get the hit the first time.
 
2013-04-24 12:43:48 PM
I got four kids.  If I find any one of them using herion, this is the way it would shake out:  First the kids would get it, then I'd stick them in in-patient rehab.  Next, I'd take care of the dealer, giving him/her a one way ticket to in-patient rehab....not drug rehab...orthopedic...

And if I have to do a few weeks for assault?  Fine.  At least I can say I look out for my children.
 
2013-04-24 12:47:53 PM
Is the "Follow Up" tag out back shooting up?  I seem to recall from the original story, a while back, that some of us suspected that this lady's son was actually the one dealing.
 
2013-04-24 12:55:08 PM
Diss miss case and move on.
 
2013-04-24 12:59:34 PM
I would have voted for Aquittal, then advised the lady that a golf club is better for the next time...

Easier to swing, you can get a MUCH higher speed, and won't throw you off balance if you miss your target like a baseball bat will...

/Just saying...
 
2013-04-24 12:59:56 PM

Lady J: so... why do people hate heroin dealers?

yes, they sell something that might kill you, but you don't have to buy it. guns and motorbikes kill people, we don't have a problem with motorbike dealerships

yes it's addictive, but so is gambling

inneresting



Afternoon, not seen you in a while!

Was thinking much the same. Heroin is highly addictive, but unless the guy was actually pushing it on people, which I doubt, he was selling it like anything else and doesn't really deserve a beating
As far as I'm aware, much of the heroin problem in the US comes from the overprescription of Oxycodone, with a whole hell of a lot of people transitioning to H once the prescription runs out. The problem goes far deeper than dealers.
 
2013-04-24 01:04:18 PM

kindms: She should have beat her son with the Bat. He is the one making bad decisions. And where is he getting money for the heroin ?

She failed as a parent and is lashing out violently at others instead of dealing with her son who thinks sticking a needle in his arm is all well and good.


As someone with a brother-in-law that's been clean off of prescription drug addiction, STFU. It's not that easy to just up and walk away from this stuff once it's in your system. My BIL says every day gets a little easier, but there isn't a day that goes by that he doesn't think about finding a place to score a small fix. You don't just wake up one morning and say "I think I'll decide to give up heroin!" and that's that. My BIL needed treatment to counteract the withdrawls and even then it was three painful days to fight through.

Was it a bad decision for him to start? Yes, definitely, but it was brought on by a failing marriage and long bouts of depression and anxiety. Both of which are good doorways into drug use if untreated. The kid was 19. They're known for doing stupid things, especially with people they know and trust, like a neighbor.

The mom was doing what she could to keep him clean by keeping him with her as much as possible and to change his living environment to avoid contact that might put him back on that path. She did probably as much as she was financially and emotionally capable as she could in her circumstance. I doubt she realized that her own neighbor was the source and was trying to keep him addicted. I would have probably had the same reaction had it been my son and my neighbor.
 
2013-04-24 01:14:39 PM

FunkyBlue: kindms: She should have beat her son with the Bat. He is the one making bad decisions. And where is he getting money for the heroin ?

She failed as a parent and is lashing out violently at others instead of dealing with her son who thinks sticking a needle in his arm is all well and good.

As someone with a brother-in-law that's been clean off of prescription drug addiction, STFU. It's not that easy to just up and walk away from this stuff once it's in your system. My BIL says every day gets a little easier, but there isn't a day that goes by that he doesn't think about finding a place to score a small fix. You don't just wake up one morning and say "I think I'll decide to give up heroin!" and that's that. My BIL needed treatment to counteract the withdrawls and even then it was three painful days to fight through.

Was it a bad decision for him to start? Yes, definitely, but it was brought on by a failing marriage and long bouts of depression and anxiety. Both of which are good doorways into drug use if untreated. The kid was 19. They're known for doing stupid things, especially with people they know and trust, like a neighbor.

The mom was doing what she could to keep him clean by keeping him with her as much as possible and to change his living environment to avoid contact that might put him back on that path. She did probably as much as she was financially and emotionally capable as she could in her circumstance. I doubt she realized that her own neighbor was the source and was trying to keep him addicted. I would have probably had the same reaction had it been my son and my neighbor.


They're especially known for being stupid in rural communities with fark-all for economic and educational opportunities. You know, two-thirds of Missouri's land area.
 
2013-04-24 01:49:27 PM
I don't understand this at all. I think that, while a bit foolish, perhaps this young man only wanted to add the crowning jewel to his aviary. I fail to see the harm. Furthermore, people who deal in rare/exotic animals may be a bit misguided, but I don't think they would be in the business if they didn't genuinely love nature in all her wild glory. Herons are one of the most beautiful indigenous birds to the United States and- What? Heroin?

/nevermind
 
Nib
2013-04-24 01:52:22 PM
Ahh yes she is definitely a hero.  Next we need to beat up deli store owners for selling alcohol and tobacco to people.  Then it's on to fast food workers for selling deadly fatty food.  Let's just beat up anyone who sells anything bad for us.
 
2013-04-24 01:58:24 PM

Nib: Ahh yes she is definitely a hero.  Next we need to beat up deli store owners for selling alcohol and tobacco to people.  Then it's on to fast food workers for selling deadly fatty food.  Let's just beat up anyone who sells anything bad for us.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-04-24 02:31:39 PM

kindms: She should have beat her son with the Bat. He is the one making bad decisions. And where is he getting money for the heroin ?

She failed as a parent and is lashing out violently at others instead of dealing with her son who thinks sticking a needle in his arm is all well and good.


Clearly, you have never had to deal with an addict in your family.  Anyone who has would tell you that wouldn't work.

During selection, I would tell the judge how I would weigh the evidence carefully and take the law into consideration and then vote to acquit no matter how good the prosecutor's case was.
 
2013-04-24 03:20:41 PM
As a former crank addict I can tell all the judgey farkers in this thread that it's not as easy as deciding not to do it again, especially when the people supplying it keep coming around. I had to move halfway across the country to deprive myself of the opportunity so I could clean up, and I  stillnearly relapsed on one occasion.

It's obvious that some of them are trolling. It's the ignorant farks that worry me. They clearly know nothing of addiction.
 
2013-04-24 03:46:09 PM

kindms: She should have beat her son with the Bat. He is the one making bad decisions. And where is he getting money for the heroin ?

She failed as a parent and is lashing out violently at others instead of dealing with her son who thinks sticking a needle in his arm is all well and good.


You don't have kids, do you.
 
2013-04-24 03:51:36 PM

Begoggle: So on Fark, murder is OK if it's a heroin dealer.
And drugs should be legal, as long as it's not heroin.
Got it.


murder?   Your hyperbole just blew your credibility like a junkie looking for $20 for a fix.
 
2013-04-24 03:53:10 PM

Begoggle: Bravo Two: i love how there're people on Fark and elsewhere that would convict her.

Me too, I love how there are people who think vigilante murder isn't OK.  Like those bombers in Boston.  Not OK, I guess?


Murder?  Who got murdered?  You keep saying it, but we have seen no evidence of murder.
 
2013-04-24 04:49:12 PM
Good luck beating up the other people who helped bring heroin to your son.  The US military can take punch.
 
2013-04-24 05:09:36 PM

OniNeko: As a former crank addict I can tell all the judgey farkers in this thread that it's not as easy as deciding not to do it again, especially when the people supplying it keep coming around. I had to move halfway across the country to deprive myself of the opportunity so I could clean up, and I  stillnearly relapsed on one occasion.

It's obvious that some of them are trolling. It's the ignorant farks that worry me. They clearly know nothing of addiction.


I'm dealing with a 14 year old, child of a crack whore.  Everything was ok until he hit 6th grade, and started riding the school bus with high school kids.  This county's efforts to save money put an 11 year old addict in the world of 18 year olds, ready to try anything and everything.  For any body not living this nightmare, let me tell you something.  If I could get my hands on the asshats that thought it was funny to watch little kids get wasted on the bus, I would be serving serious time.  Give mom a medal, and accuracy lessons.
 
2013-04-24 07:05:59 PM

KangTheMad: Innocent. Case done, next!


and charge the heroin dealer with manslaughter
 
2013-04-24 07:14:59 PM

Begoggle: So on Fark, murder is OK if it's a heroin dealer.
And drugs should be legal, as long as it's not heroin.
Got it.


Yes because weed isn't a drug drug. Heroin, meth, and crack should never be legal. But I also think alcohol
 
2013-04-24 07:38:01 PM

Bravo Two: Rapmaster2000: No, no. We learned in Death Wish IV that to get rid of drugs we need to shoot all the drug dealers and then there will be no more drugs for drug addicts to use.

Kill the dealers, destroy the infrastructure, it'd be a hell of a lot harder to find drugs for people to use.


Which is why the War on Drugs has been so successful, right? Because in the free market, reducing the supply magically decreases the demand. Just like those "Only five ever made!" eliminates the demand (and asking price) for high-powered sports cars.

/A War on Drug Abuse/Addiction would have been more successful because it would have focused on reducing demand, thereby reducing the supply and all the awfulness that comes with that particular supply chain.
 
2013-04-24 09:55:27 PM

WordyGrrl: Bravo Two: Rapmaster2000: No, no. We learned in Death Wish IV that to get rid of drugs we need to shoot all the drug dealers and then there will be no more drugs for drug addicts to use.

Kill the dealers, destroy the infrastructure, it'd be a hell of a lot harder to find drugs for people to use.

Which is why the War on Drugs has been so successful, right? Because in the free market, reducing the supply magically decreases the demand. Just like those "Only five ever made!" eliminates the demand (and asking price) for high-powered sports cars.

/A War on Drug Abuse/Addiction would have been more successful because it would have focused on reducing demand, thereby reducing the supply and all the awfulness that comes with that particular supply chain.


This.

Supply will always meet the demand. Making it harder to get will only push the price up further and make it an even more lucrative industry.

You could kill the users instead, it would be more effective at getting rid of the dealers, since you hate them so much. Interesting that you'd probably find that idea repellant though. I take it you'd see gun sellers as evil, as opposed to those who use guns to shoot people.
 
2013-04-24 11:31:58 PM

Nidiot: Supply will always meet the demand. Making it harder to get will only push the price up further and make it an even more lucrative industry.

You could kill the users instead, it would be more effective at getting rid of the dealers, since you hate them so much. Interesting that you'd probably find that idea repellant though. I take it you'd see gun sellers as evil, as opposed to those who use guns to shoot people.


I've got no beef at all with occasional, casual users. It's the addicted "life-spun-out-of-control" folks that need help kicking the habit -- and we as a country aren't doing near enough help them. (yes, I accept that some addicts don't want help, sadly enough.) As for gun sellers? Merchants catering to demand for particular items, that's all.

If we would work on taking the glamor out of violence (thus, hopefully,  reducing demand) we might actually make a dent in reducing violence. When's the last time any movie's high tension point involved someone talking a shooter into putting down the gun? That's an act of bravery that requires a lotta stones and more talent than just aiming and firing a weapon.  But no. Audiences don't want to see brains at work. They wanna see the bad guy getting SHOT.  Taste of his own medicine! Eye for an eye! Etc., etc.and the dog keeps chasing its tail.
 
2013-04-25 01:07:53 AM
Well it was Bravo Two and Rapmaster2000,not you WordyGrrl,that were calling for the death of drug dealers, and therefore by that logic  they would be likely to see gun sellers as evil people who deserve to die.  I'm sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you, I replied to your post because I agreed with it.

If you see getting rid of drug dealers as a way of ending drug abuse, I'm afraid it is not nearly as effective as getting rid of the users would be.
 
2013-04-25 01:33:56 AM
I live about 20-30 miles away from Imperial.  I'll happily serve on a jury for this case.
 
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