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(YouTube)   Al Qaeda spokesman to Muslims wanting to attack in the US: go to a gun show and buy an assault rifle. There are no background checks. Oh, and the video was uploaded in 2011 - well before Sandy Hook   (youtube.com ) divider line 486
    More: Sick, al-Qaeda, Gadahn, Muslims, American Terrorist, Sandy Hook, exclamation points, assault rifles  
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3375 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Apr 2013 at 11:57 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-04-24 05:30:34 PM  

Teufelaffe: swangoatman: stampylives: into a well regulated militia.

the phraseology refers to "well equiped properly functioning militia" if you do research such as the constitutions adopted by the States before and after the US constitution was ratified. Pass it along and educate all your peers. No I wont provide citations for you to do your homework. There are no cliff notes to your exercise of your rights.better yet. Let a liberal show me different circa 1780's definition.

FTFY

In the parlance of the time, a "well regulated militia" would be both properly equipped and trained.  It's pretty much impossible to keep people from training if they want to, but a government can restrict access to the tools required for a militia, thus the creation of the Second Amendment.  Of course, most of our modern batch of Second Amendment defenders fall a bit short on the training part, but by golly they're all over the equipped part.  I guess enthusiasm has to count for something, right?


You must be one of those who never bother to be trained in the use of arms. Well firearm training is difficult and does take regular participation. Are you a Weekend Warrior? Are you a member of your local neighborhood watch? Do you willingly take time for Disaster Relief Training? Also you must be forgetting that the vast majority of humankind RUN from trouble while the VAST majority of brave men and women will face the trouble head on. Did you see the first responders running toward the bombs? I did. Did you also see the NON-PAID volunteers? I did.
 If he people of Boston were allowed by their parents to have weapons I am sure there would have been less LOOTING in Boston after the bombs too, as the cops were rather busy with other things.This accounts for the few, the brave, the willing as opposed to the many, the cowards, the sheep. If you really took things as they should be taken you would be sure that you are a trained person for the militia,either by gun or medical or by logistical support. Those who openly mock the 2nd amendment do not understand it's importance in protecting the other rights. How are you a part of the right and responsibility of being in the militia?
 
2013-04-24 05:42:13 PM  

bruce4bruce: The drug cartels buy loads of guns from dealers here in the Phoenix area.  They then smuggle them back to Mexico.  The same thing is probably happening at gun shows here in AZ, NM, CA, and TX.


Almost all gun sales to people who shouldn't be getting them are using straw purchases not the "gun-show loophole".
 
2013-04-24 05:53:57 PM  

swangoatman: You must be one of those who never bother to be trained in the use of arms.


That's a pretty odd assumption to make there.  I grew up in a household with handguns, learned proper gun safety at 4, first started shooting at 8.  I go target shooting when I can, and know the basics of handling rifles and shotguns.

swangoatman: Are you a Weekend Warrior? Are you a member of your local neighborhood watch? Do you willingly take time for Disaster Relief Training? Also you must be forgetting that the vast majority of humankind RUN from trouble while the VAST majority of brave men and women will face the trouble head on. Did you see the first responders running toward the bombs? I did. Did you also see the NON-PAID volunteers? I did.
 If he people of Boston were allowed by their parents to have weapons I am sure there would have been less LOOTING in Boston after the bombs too, as the cops were rather busy with other things.This accounts for the few, the brave, the willing as opposed to the many, the cowards, the sheep. If you really took things as they should be taken you would be sure that you are a trained person for the militia,either by gun or medical or by logistical support. Those who openly mock the 2nd amendment do not understand it's importance in protecting the other rights. How are you a part of the right and responsibility of being in the militia?


I live in rural Vermont; there is no neighborhood watch.  I know CPR, basic first aid and survival techniques, I know where the town evac routes are, and I have my anti-radiation dosages for me and my daughter in case of an accident at the Vermont Yankee plant.  I've never been near a true life endangering emergency like a bombing or natural disaster, so I honestly couldn't say if I'd run or not.  I'd like to think I'd be one of the people heading to help, but you never really know whether you'll pick fight or flight until the moment arrives (and anyone who claims they know which choice they'd make the first time they face an emergency is a farking liar).

As for the rest of your...ahem, screed, you can take your "the 2nd amendment protects the rest!" crap and stuff it in your paranoid keister.  The 2nd amendment was crafted because the framers of the Constitution never envisioned that we would have a standing army.  The concept of the well regulated militia is to act in lieu of an army until one could be raised when needed, not as some guarantee of the ability to enact an armed revolution against our own government.

I don't mock the 2nd amendment, but I sure as hell mock those who hold in higher esteem than every other part of the Constitution and its amendments.
 
2013-04-24 06:12:10 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Shorter, scarier and funnier.


You mean out gun laws haven't changed in 200 years?

That had to be about the dumbest talking point video that I have seen today - and that is saying something.
 
2013-04-24 06:28:47 PM  

jaylectricity: [i377.photobucket.com image 520x465]


People should realize that this picture is fake.
 
2013-04-24 07:02:54 PM  
Teufelaffe:As for the rest of your...ahem, screed, you can take your "the 2nd amendment protects the rest!" crap and stuff it in your paranoid keister.   The 2nd amendment was crafted because the framers of the Constitution never envisioned that we would have a standing army.  The concept of the well regulated militia is to act in lieu of an army until one could be raised when needed, not as some guarantee of the ability to enact an armed revolution against our own government.

What kind of silly thinking is this? Are you seriously suggesting that the founders never thought that the USA would ever have or need a standing army? That they would somehow just be able to rely on their ragtag rebel army (which was substantially reinforced & supplied by the French, incidentally, which did have plenty of standing army) into perpetuity? That they were so shortsighted and blithely naive (in spite of the still-recent independence war) that they would never need to establish a military? That in spite of their education, travels abroad into Europe, and knowledge of history they figured the USA would just never have to deal with organized war?

There was no standing army, yes - but don't confuse "could not yet establish a standing army"  with "never envisioned we'd have one". They knew darn well that we'd eventually need one. They also knew darn well that standing armies help tyrants immensely. Therefore, they envisioned a system by which the populace would act as both a militia as well as a final check against any force that would seek to subjugate that free state.

I should also point out that the standing army was established in 1784, with most of the founders till alive and well. Where's the record of their outrage at this impossibility?
 
2013-04-24 07:17:51 PM  
img132.imageshack.us
 
2013-04-24 07:21:48 PM  
If the left was able to be as reactionary and dumb-down as the right, they would have proclaimed any politician who was against background checks and ammo limits as being pro-terrorism.

/perhaps the next mass shooting will be done by a brown guy, THEN we will be able to have a meaningful discussion about gun control...
 
2013-04-24 07:43:49 PM  

Teufelaffe: swangoatman:?

I live in rural Vermont; there is no neighborhood watch..

 Say your from Vermont huh? then:
Article 16. [Right to bear arms; standing armies; military power subordinate to civil]

That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State--and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.

Article 17. [Martial law restricted]

That no person in this state can in any case be subjected to law martial, or to any penalties or pains by virtue of that law except those employed in the army, and the militia in actual service.

 And if that State should be dissolved  then it would be dissolved by peaceful vote is what the constitution says,right?

Article 18. [Regard to fundamental principles and virtues necessary to preserve liberty]

That frequent recurrence to fundamental principles, and a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, industry, and frugality, are absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty, and keep government free; the people ought, therefore to pay particular attention to these points, in the choice of officers and representatives, and have a right, in a legal way, to exact a due and constant regard to them, from their legislators and magistrates, in making and executing such laws as are necessary for the good government of the State.


But what happens when a disaster happens or the Government ,local,state, or federal goes Rogue?? as in the war of 1860-65? How was that handled in the USA? it is best if you review your history and see that the vast majority of foot soldiers on both sides were citizen soldiers who then placed themselves under military control---not conscripted "volunteers".

Right now our country,. our Federal government, many States and locals and an increasing number of citizens ARE NOT to use the words above "just, moderate, restrained, industrious, or frugal".

Expand your neighborhood.Did you see what happened in Watertown in the search for one killer?
 
2013-04-24 07:45:37 PM  

duenor: Teufelaffe:As for the rest of your...ahem, screed, you can take your "the 2nd amendment protects the rest!" crap and stuff it in your paranoid keister.   The 2nd amendment was crafted because the framers of the Constitution never envisioned that we would have a standing army.  The concept of the well regulated militia is to act in lieu of an army until one could be raised when needed, not as some guarantee of the ability to enact an armed revolution against our own government.

What kind of silly thinking is this? Are you seriously suggesting that the founders never thought that the USA would ever have or need a standing army? That they would somehow just be able to rely on their ragtag rebel army (which was substantially reinforced & supplied by the French, incidentally, which did have plenty of standing army) into perpetuity? That they were so shortsighted and blithely naive (in spite of the still-recent independence war) that they would never need to establish a military? That in spite of their education, travels abroad into Europe, and knowledge of history they figured the USA would just never have to deal with organized war?

There was no standing army, yes - but don't confuse "could not yet establish a standing army"  with "never envisioned we'd have one". They knew darn well that we'd eventually need one. They also knew darn well that standing armies help tyrants immensely. Therefore, they envisioned a system by which the populace would act as both a militia as well as a final check against any force that would seek to subjugate that free state.

I should also point out that the standing army was established in 1784, with most of the founders till alive and well. Where's the record of their outrage at this impossibility?



"There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of the nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Standing armies [are] inconsistent with [a people's] freedom and subversive of their quiet." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"A standing army not only diminshes the population of a country, but even the size and breed of the human species; for an army is the flower of the nation; all the most vigorous, stout, and well-made men in a kingdon are to be found in the army, and these men in general never marry." ~ Benjamin Franklin

"He who would sacrifice a little bit of liberty for a little bit of security, will lose both and deserve neither." ~ Benjamin Franklin in reference to the idea of a standing army

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty." ~ Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment

"Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" ~ Patrick Henry

Yeah, they farking loved the idea of a standing army.
 
2013-04-24 07:46:19 PM  

JohnnyCanuck: So the biggest peoblem was people think that criminals will not turn their guns in thereby letting criminals have more guns than law-abiding folk? How many of those law-abiding folk used the buy back money to simply buy another, more legal gun?
If you need your gun for hunting, or killing rapists (as someone previously mentioned) does a legal gun not kill enough? You need to kill em real good?!?



"More legal" as defined by The People's Republic of California?  No thanks.

/Live in a blue state (WA).
//But I am glad we are bright red when it comes to firearms.
 
2013-04-24 07:58:25 PM  

Teufelaffe: not as some guarantee of the ability to enact an armed revolution against our own government.

FROM the Vermont Constitution 
VII. That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection and security of the people, nation or community; and not for the particular emolument or advantage of any single man, family or set of men, who are a part only of that community; and that the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right, to reform or alter [or abolish] government, in such manner as shall be, by that community, judged most conducive to the public weal. 
and reaffirmed"
Article 7. [Government for the people; they may change it]

That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation, or community, and not for the particular emolument or advantage of any single person, family, or set of persons, who are a part only of that community; and that the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right, to reform or alter government, in such manner as shall be, by that community, judged most conducive to the public weal.
 
2013-04-24 07:58:42 PM  

Netrngr: JohnnyCanuck: GoldSpider: I think our efforts are better spent on the ~20,000 people that are killed by handguns every year

I agree with that. Concealed weapons are a problem all their own.

You mean the ones that the cops and state law enforcement people issue you a permit for because you took tests and passed live fire exercises to prove you could responsibly handle a gun. Those concealed weapons?


So now we trust the cops when they say you can have a gun.  Seems like just the other day the threads were all over the cops for how they handled the manhunt.
 
2013-04-24 08:00:15 PM  

ShadowKamui: Almost all gun sales to people who shouldn't be getting them are using straw purchases not the "gun-show loophole".


yep like Holder ,right on Fast and Furious !!!
 
2013-04-24 08:06:36 PM  

Teufelaffe: The concept of the well regulated militia is to act in lieu of an army until one could be raised when needed,


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-04-24 08:11:06 PM  

duenor: Therefore, they envisioned a system by which the populace would act as both a militia as well as a final check against any force that would seek to subjugate that free state.


i am in love.
 
2013-04-24 08:11:42 PM  

duenor: jaylectricity: [i377.photobucket.com image 520x465]

People should realize that this picture is fake.


It's not a fake, it's just that I cut off the right side of the billboard which explains the facetiousness contained in the rest of the billboard.
 
2013-04-24 08:14:37 PM  

swangoatman: Teufelaffe: swangoatman: stampylives: into a well regulated militia.

the phraseology refers to "well equiped properly functioning militia" if you do research such as the constitutions adopted by the States before and after the US constitution was ratified. Pass it along and educate all your peers. No I wont provide citations for you to do your homework. There are no cliff notes to your exercise of your rights.better yet. Let a liberal show me different circa 1780's definition.

FTFY

In the parlance of the time, a "well regulated militia" would be both properly equipped and trained.  It's pretty much impossible to keep people from training if they want to, but a government can restrict access to the tools required for a militia, thus the creation of the Second Amendment.  Of course, most of our modern batch of Second Amendment defenders fall a bit short on the training part, but by golly they're all over the equipped part.  I guess enthusiasm has to count for something, right?

You must be one of those who never bother to be trained in the use of arms. Well firearm training is difficult and does take regular participation. Are you a Weekend Warrior? Are you a member of your local neighborhood watch? Do you willingly take time for Disaster Relief Training? Also you must be forgetting that the vast majority of humankind RUN from trouble while the VAST majority of brave men and women will face the trouble head on. Did you see the first responders running toward the bombs? I did. Did you also see the NON-PAID volunteers? I did.
 If he people of Boston were allowed by their parents to have weapons I am sure there would have been less LOOTING in Boston after the bombs too, as the cops were rather busy with other things.This accounts for the few, the brave, the willing as opposed to the many, the cowards, the sheep. If you really took things as they should be taken you would be sure that you are a trained person for the militia,either by gun or medical or by logistical su ...


Wow man.  Talk about living in a fantasy world.  Please tell me what personal story you have about all the looting that nobody reported on.  What are you training for?  Do you really think the Government is coming for you one day.  If you have to believe someone is coming for you then try Jesus instead.  Oh, please tell me of one example where people who share this philosophy had a successful country/republic/anything anywhere in the world.

Beating your chest and saying how responsible you are with your gun while you are preparing for the end of the world doesn't really make the rest of us view you as sane.  Unless you are ex-military, a cop or other first responder then you are EXACTLY a weekend warrior.  You just happen to be a well trained weekend warrior who seems to worry a lot about disasters and being attacked or getting to be the hero.

If your a cop or something like that then then I'm wrong and sorry.  If your just a guy with a gun with a ton of survivalist and weapons training then well, you need a new hobby because that one there is crazy.
 
2013-04-24 08:20:15 PM  

GoldSpider: special20: No, I failed in assuming ones mind would be prehensile to get my inference that one was being a goody two shoes. While fully automatic weapons, or parts to them are illegal, it is not going to stop anyone from doing so.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but you're arguing that we should outlaw semi-automatic rifles (of whatever characteristics you choose) because some people willfully break the law to modify them?  Think about that for a moment...


I am not arguing anything. All I did was state a fact: just because something is illegal, doesn't mean people won't still have whatever they want to get their grubby hands on. Now excuse me while I smoke a doob, and take a nice pull on some moonshine. You should just go ahead and start a fight on the internet with someone else.
 
2013-04-24 08:31:05 PM  

Aarontology: I'm not worried about this, and you know why?

The folks who go to gun shows would never in a million years sell a gun to a guy who looked muslim-y.


Yeah, because the Boston bombers looked so "Muslim-y"
 
2013-04-24 08:32:04 PM  

swangoatman: duenor: Therefore, they envisioned a system by which the populace would act as both a militia as well as a final check against any force that would seek to subjugate that free state.

i am in love.


Blinded by love more like it.  Stare all dreamy eyed at your guns and fight for individual rights while the corporations compile more and more information on you so they can sell you stuff.  Live in the past and never look to the future, that is all your ideology is and what makes you all such good sheep.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we will think of something.  Of interest to me is this...

http://www.compulsive-hoarding.org/DSM-V.html

To sum up, there is this thing called the DSM that lists mental disorders.  They just added hording.  Seems like a nice way to determine who keeps a gun for self defense and who likes to keep an arsenal.  Helps me to understand why the gun nuts are so resistant to opening the door to a mental health check.

I"m not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but if you don't accept that your way of thinking is helping to keep the country from moving forward then other ways will be found to deal with you.  The NRA can't have your back for ever because eventually that turd is going to lose it's shine.
 
2013-04-24 08:43:01 PM  
At a gun show I went to in Texas recently, all the dealers guns I talked to all required having a CHL for gun purchases, which requires a background check and fingerprinting to obtain. Maybe it's different in other states.
 
2013-04-24 08:44:33 PM  

luxup: Wow man.  Talk about living in a fantasy world.


looting in boston  --google  it. I am not your slave yet.

I never said >preparing for the end of the world YOU Luxup said that
I never said >the Government is coming for you one day .YOU  Luxup said that.
Maybe Red Cross Quick Response Unit Volunteer ? >>  Unless you are ex-military, a cop or other first responder > I am none of these.
YOU Luxup  ask :survivalist and weapons training  > two different things. I am not a survivalist.
YOU Luxup  appear to have a chip on your shoulder against guns,free speech, and freedom. You maybe are in the crowd that needs a nanny.
 
2013-04-24 08:45:32 PM  

Loadmaster: At a gun show I went to in Texas recently, all the dealers guns I talked to all required having a CHL for gun purchases, which requires a background check and fingerprinting to obtain. Maybe it's different in other states.


Or, maybe that is what they all say at the gun shows.  If the people who buy illegal guns don't follow the rules then why should the sellers?  But wait, people who sell guns would never lie right, just the criminals who buy them.
 
2013-04-24 08:59:01 PM  

Cletus C.: nekom: Not sure why you mentioned Sandy Hook, that was his mother's legally acquired and fully background checked guns there.

She was a law-abiding gun owner. As was her son, until he stopped abiding.


So?    EVERY criminal is a law-abiding person until they're not.

I reject out of hand this bullshiat notion that everyone is a potential criminal.  It's what you call a literally-true lie.  Most people never even have a significant brush with criminality, because they have inculcated social and ethical mores that prevent them from turning to a life of crime.
 
2013-04-24 09:00:27 PM  

luxup: moving forward


Well, your liberal ,mocking arrogance is indeed LEANING FORWARD like your Communist ideology. I never said I had an arsenal .Liberal bigoted minds always runs to  extremism.
Denial of reality is also a mental illness.  Your fear of self defense is irrational.Your fear of duty to community defense is indefensible.
So is being a lying sociopath that manipulates others to the point of their being vulnerable and dependent on the perpetrator. Sounds like your ideology,buddy.
You have not stated HOW my ideal are "old" or out dated. You just say they are. You have not SHOWN that the idea of people having the right to have arms is not in keeping with the Republic form of government.
IT has however been proven that Tyrants, Communists and Theocrats love to control the weapons.
 
2013-04-24 09:02:24 PM  

luxup: criminals who buy them


most criminals, similar to liberals, just take things instead of buying them on the free market.
 
2013-04-24 09:05:14 PM  
Probably already mentioned but just in case...

Who is going to sell a gun at a gun show to a brown person?
 
2013-04-24 09:12:15 PM  

swangoatman: luxup: Wow man.  Talk about living in a fantasy world.

You: looting in boston  --google  it. I am not your slave yet.


Me: Looting, did YOU google it?  Man, this is EXACTLY the problem with this type of thinking and those who follow it.  You just show that you don't care about reality, you just want something to help to justify your rational.  The following is what I found when I googled 'looting in boston".  Is this what all that training is for?  Really?

"Instead of going to hospital to donate blood, looters were stealing marathon jackets while people were laying on the ground critically injured. Some may argue that the jackets were being used as pillows, blankets or even tourniquets for those in shock while others disagree. There was a growing number of eBay listings for Boston Marathon-related items by people who seemed to be capitalizing on a tragedy."

So, In your brain 'Need to be prepared in case of looters.'  What really happened is that some people stole marathon jackets and tried to sell them on ebay.  Ok cowboy, maybe let the police handle that case of societal breakdown.  I've lived through 3 blackouts.  One in the 70s during New York City's most violent period and you want a gun to deal with the people who stole jackets.

You: I never said >preparing for the end of the world YOU Luxup said that

Me: True, you called someone out as a 'weekend warrior' and then said "
Are you a member of your local neighborhood watch? Do you willingly take time for Disaster Relief Training?" so you are certainly giving the impression that you do these things.  I'm sorry, do you have to actually take a course called 'End of the word training' to be called out on it.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then guess what it is?  There is being prepared and there is going Nuts.  N-V-T-S nuts.

You: I never said >the Government is coming for you one day .YOU  Luxup said that.

Me: No, but based on your comment I'm guessing you have a bit of a libertarian bent.  Sorry if I'm wrong but those guys are always saying stuff like that.

You: Maybe Red Cross Quick Response Unit Volunteer ? >>  Unless you are ex-military, a cop or other first responder > I am none of these.


Me:

Hughes, who is now CEO of the American Red Cross of Southeastern PA, spoke to the Tribune in her capacity as a former judge with the Court of Common Pleas, and a law professor who teaches at Drexel University and Villanova Law School. "I think putting Commissioner Ramsey on the panel is a brilliant decision by President Obama and I am so grateful that he's taking decisive action on this," said Hughes who was appointed to the bench in 1995. "I have witnessed the devastation caused by assault weapons.

I'm sure they love your gun views.  Don't get me wrong, kudos for volunteering, don't think you need a gun for that.  Maybe I misunderstand how the Red Cross works.

YOU: Luxup  ask :survivalist and weapons training  > two different things. I am not a survivalist.

Me: Of course not.  Nobody is nowadays.  You are just very very passionate and enthusiastic about your freedoms and guns.

YOU: Luxup  appear to have a chip on your shoulder against guns,free speech, and freedom. You maybe are in the crowd that needs a nanny.

Me: Yes I do have a chip on my shoulder.  Seeing 20 kids get shot was the final straw that put it there.  You can yell, I can yell louder.  You can say I need a nanny and I can point out to you the folly of your thinking.  I have ammo, you have fairy tails and boogymen.
 
2013-04-24 09:14:03 PM  

Farkomatic: Tatsuma: ... so we should just restrict our rights and freedom because some people might exploit them? Al Qaeda found a loophole, well good for them, but it should have exactly 0% influence on any decisions in the matter. fark them, we're not going to change our way of lives one more iota because of them.

Just out of curiosity - should an ex-spouse - or ex-spouse to be - with an impending hearing for a domestic violence charge be able to by any weapon completely unfettered? Should someone awaiting trial - but not convicted - of a violent crime have unfettered access to weaponry?


As people awaiting trial are restricted from weapons as condition of bail, this has already been considered. If they are caught with a weapon they get thrown back in jail and other charges get filed along with the original ones.

Is your state government different? Do they allow folks out on bail their weapons? DV charges = immediate confiscation of firearms and maybe you can get them back if you are innocent and they haven't lost or destroyed them in the interim.
 
2013-04-24 09:22:17 PM  

luxup: swangoatman: duenor: Therefore, they envisioned a system by which the populace would act as both a militia as well as a final check against any force that would seek to subjugate that free state.

i am in love.

Blinded by love more like it.  Stare all dreamy eyed at your guns and fight for individual rights while the corporations compile more and more information on you so they can sell you stuff.  Live in the past and never look to the future, that is all your ideology is and what makes you all such good sheep.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we will think of something.  Of interest to me is this...

http://www.compulsive-hoarding.org/DSM-V.html

To sum up, there is this thing called the DSM that lists mental disorders.  They just added hording.  Seems like a nice way to determine who keeps a gun for self defense and who likes to keep an arsenal.  Helps me to understand why the gun nuts are so resistant to opening the door to a mental health check.

I"m not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but if you don't accept that your way of thinking is helping to keep the country from moving forward then other ways will be found to deal with you.  The NRA can't have your back for ever because eventually that turd is going to lose it's shine.


when should a person's private medical information be used to take away their rights?

you need a trial for that, I think. a computer search isn't going to cut it.
 
2013-04-24 10:00:57 PM  

doglover: madgonad: Buy an assault rifle without ID - yes. Fully automatic - no.

If it's not fully automatic, it's not an assault rifle.

It's like saying "You don't need a driver's license to drive this car." where the car is actually a ten speed Huffy.


Uhm, according to the facts, it is... (From Wikipedia's definition of "assault weapon")

Attributes previously defined in Federal assault weapon legislation and their purposes:
- Detachable magazines allow for fast reloading
- Collapsible stocks allow for adjustment to the length of pull to the shooter's preference.
- Folding stocks reducing the total length of the firearm, making it easier to transport. Critics maintain that it makes the weapon more concealable.
- Pistol grips (on rifles) reduce the angle (and thus rotational strain) of the wrist when the rifle is shouldered.
- Bayonet mounts allow the mounting of a bayonet
- Flash suppressors reduce night vision degradation to a shooter's vision, as well as those beside or behind the user
- Threaded barrels allow for the mounting of flash suppressors, compensators and muzzle brake
- Barrel mounted grenade launcher mounts are concentric rings around the muzzle that facilitate attachment of rifle grenades
- A barrel shroud is a tube around the barrel designed to limit transfer of heat from the barrel to the supporting hand, or to protect a shooter from being burned by accidental contact.
- Magazines greater than 10 rounds
- Semi-automatic, functionality meaning that they can eject spent shell casings and chamber the next round without additional human action, but (as opposed to automatic firearms) only one round is fired per pull of the trigger.

Any ONE of these characteristics, and you have an "assault weapon."
 
2013-04-24 10:02:29 PM  

swangoatman: luxup: moving forward

Well, your liberal ,mocking arrogance is indeed LEANING FORWARD like your Communist ideology. I never said I had an arsenal .Liberal bigoted minds always runs to  extremism.
Denial of reality is also a mental illness.  Your fear of self defense is irrational.Your fear of duty to community defense is indefensible.
So is being a lying sociopath that manipulates others to the point of their being vulnerable and dependent on the perpetrator. Sounds like your ideology,buddy.
You have not stated HOW my ideal are "old" or out dated. You just say they are. You have not SHOWN that the idea of people having the right to have arms is not in keeping with the Republic form of government.
IT has however been proven that Tyrants, Communists and Theocrats love to control the weapons.


Wow, that is a lot of insults.  The mark of a true orator or one who does not have actual facts to back them up?  Do you think the United States is in danger of being overrun by tyrants, communists and Theocrats?  What's taking them so long?  Wait for Jesus instead, the message is better.

You see, when the founders came up with that it was a different time.  Sure, keep your pistols and shotguns, what on earth do you need an assault rifle for?  For the perceived threat that will never come?  Your ideas are out or date because they were based on a world as it functioned over 200 years ago and you somehow think (despite history) that if everyone had a gun and all their personal freedoms then all the problems would go away.  What would happen is organized crime would take over and they will always have more guns than you.

It's not liberal mocking, it's common sense observations based in reality.

I never said YOU had an arsenal.  I did post on hording now being defined as a mental illness, thereby giving a bases to possibly classify someone who had an arsenal of guns as mentally incompetent.  I said that it would be a good way of separating those who have a pistol or shotgun for self defense from those who keep an arsenal.  You took that to mean I accused you of having an arsenal.  Again, no bases in reality but shows your irrational fear.  You took words and either didn't understand them or twisted them to cement YOUR fear of possibly loosing YOUR guns.  There is nothing that makes me believe you care about anyone else's freedoms.

I don't deny reality.  I don't deny that putting tougher gun controls would help prevent future kids being killed.  I don't deny that it is a matter of time before the next one and you and your guns will not stop it.  You deny it.

"So is being a lying sociopath that manipulates others to the point of their being vulnerable and dependent on the perpetrator."

That is indefensible.  It's how I feel about LaPierre, the gun lobby and you, the people that let the big gun companies dictate how you think.  It's how I feel about the politicians that looked at those families in the eyes and said that they felt their pain but then voted no represent you, not me.
 
2013-04-24 10:35:06 PM  

swangoatman: Teufelaffe: The concept of the well regulated militia is to act in lieu of an army until one could be raised when needed,

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]


Will Thomas Jefferson do?

"There shall be no standing army but in time of actual war."
 
2013-04-24 10:39:43 PM  

swangoatman: luxup: criminals who buy them

most criminals, similar to liberals, just take things instead of buying them on the free market.


img717.imageshack.us
If you're trying to not come off like a paranoid nutjob, you're doing a really shiatty job.
 
2013-04-24 10:45:51 PM  

swangoatman: luxup: criminals who buy them

most criminals, similar to liberals, just take things instead of buying them on the free market.


And the extreme right nudged on by the libertarian nuts (who vote republican) make it easier for the criminals to get the guns to do the stealing.

Here are a couple of excerpt from an article I'm sure you won't read...

The Founders didn't anticipate the New Deal-- there was no need for them to-- but they were as quick to resort to the resources of the state as any modern liberal. Ben Franklin, for instance, played the Pennsylvania legislature like a violin-- using it to fund a hospital he wanted to establish, for instance. Obviously he had no qualms about using state power to do good social works.

and this one...

The process of giving life to our constitutional rights has largely been the work of liberals. On the greatest fight of all, to treat blacks as human beings, libertarians supported the other side.

History shows that your ideology does not protect the constitution or it's amendments, all it does is make it easier for businesses to abuse it and tell you what to think.

http://www.zompist.com/libertos.html
 
2013-04-24 11:00:52 PM  

legion_of_doo: luxup: swangoatman: duenor: Therefore, they envisioned a system by which the populace would act as both a militia as well as a final check against any force that would seek to subjugate that free state.

i am in love.

Blinded by love more like it.  Stare all dreamy eyed at your guns and fight for individual rights while the corporations compile more and more information on you so they can sell you stuff.  Live in the past and never look to the future, that is all your ideology is and what makes you all such good sheep.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we will think of something.  Of interest to me is this...

http://www.compulsive-hoarding.org/DSM-V.html

To sum up, there is this thing called the DSM that lists mental disorders.  They just added hording.  Seems like a nice way to determine who keeps a gun for self defense and who likes to keep an arsenal.  Helps me to understand why the gun nuts are so resistant to opening the door to a mental health check.

I"m not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but if you don't accept that your way of thinking is helping to keep the country from moving forward then other ways will be found to deal with you.  The NRA can't have your back for ever because eventually that turd is going to lose it's shine.

when should a person's private medical information be used to take away their rights?

you need a trial for that, I think. a computer search isn't going to cut it.


When a mental health review is a component of gun ownership, that's when.  When a psychiatrist needs to perform a court ordered mental health review because someone refuses to comply because the 'jack booted oppressors are coming for my guns.' That's when.

We can force a mental patient to take meds.  We can take away children from bad parents.  It's just a matter of time before we work out a way to take the guns away from the crazy people.

The sane ones can have shotguns and pistols.

Of course it just takes a bit longer when the crazy people block common sense measures.  You don't have to like it and I'm not saying it will be quick and easy.  I'm saying the rest of us are getting fed up with BS.  Just think about how much your guns and love of freedom is helping the next people that get killed in the next school shooting.

THAT, unlike the oppression of the American people by a tyrannical leader will actually happen in your lifetime, probably a few times.  So thanks for getting in the way of trying to stop those.
 
2013-04-24 11:07:20 PM  
doglover: ...assault rifle...

People_are_Idiots: Uhm, according to the facts, it is... (From Wikipedia's definition of "assault weapon")

Lol.
 
2013-04-24 11:40:03 PM  
i'm lovin it

conservative bullshiate
shoveled back into their fat faces
 
2013-04-25 12:19:18 AM  

luxup: The sane ones can have shotguns and pistols.


But can I keep my rifle too? or am I supposed to shoot the dear I eat with a pistol? How many bullets you gonna let me have to hunt with ?
Mom, can I please have another bullet as the one I shot missed.
Your lack of knowledge proves you really do not know the topic past your indoctrination..
Oh yea. the best for last.I fixed your PC speech for ya.
You are so in-tune to FORCE aren't you LUXUP>
We can force a mental patient  a child in school to take meds.
 We can take away children from WHO WE FEEL are unfit bad parents who refuse to accept our communist ideals..
 It's just a matter of time before we work out a way to take the guns away from those we can't control through propaganda and fear.the crazy people.
 
2013-04-25 12:38:53 AM  
Liberals doing their gun thing to kids now:

An NYU psychology student  was arrested on illegal weapons possession raps Monday,

Bernard Goal, 20, was busted after a startled maintenance crew spotted a pair of realistic looking rifles on his bed while he was out and alerted campus security.

Public safety officers swept the Texas native's room and found four more Airsoft weapons that closely resembled AK-47s and a black Colt carbine rifles, sources said.

NYPD cops arrested Goal at 2:30 p.m. Monday and hit him with six misdemeanor violations of a local law that prohibits the possession or sale of air rifles and replica firearms, according to a law enforcement source.

The weapons fire pellets through compressed air and are routinely mistaken for actual firearms. They have a range of about 140 to 300 feet and can cause flesh wounds at a close range, sources said.

"It's very scary to know there were guns one floor below me. I had no idea," said one of Goal's co-workers, who described him as pleasant and a hard worker. "But knowing Bernard I'm not scared."

Are you still scared of the kids little liberal mommy? You still gonna let me keep the scary shotgun,pistols and BB GUNS??

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nyu_student_busted_fo r_bu ilding_1lZqVHYj47McYLAtcHKAWP
 
2013-04-25 12:50:45 AM  
And finally to put it all to rest:
The police rescue the families on a street in Boston. Listen . That is how this is actually stated by the newscaster.
 
2013-04-25 01:34:33 AM  
Flaumig: "Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" ~ Patrick Henry

Yeah, they farkingloved the idea of a standing army.

I never said they wanted and loved the idea of a standing army. But they certainly were able to see it as possible (the earlier post said they never envisioned it). As I wrote, they clearly felt that a standing army could aid the rise of tyrants.

Therefore, the founding fathers deliberately wrote the 2A so that every citizen had the right (and even responsibility) to be well armed. All your quotes support this.

Ergo, the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms today should not be infringed upon. If anything, the founding fathers would probably be very worried that today we have

- standing army
- secret military forces
- suspension of habeas corpus
- stripping of citizen's rights to bear arms

and would demand that every able bodied citizen go out, buy an AR15, and practice with it.
 
2013-04-25 01:41:28 AM  

Nabb1: Aarontology: I'm not worried about this, and you know why?

The folks who go to gun shows would never in a million years sell a gun to a guy who looked muslim-y.

You mean the guy with all the Third Reich paraphernalia for sale because of its "historical value" might not want to sell his stuff to brown folks?


So all Muslims are brown?
 
2013-04-25 01:41:55 AM  

luxup: swangoatman: duenor: Therefore, they envisioned a system by which the populace would act as both a militia as well as a final check against any force that would seek to subjugate that free state.

i am in love.

Blinded by love more like it.  Stare all dreamy eyed at your guns and fight for individual rights while the corporations compile more and more information on you so they can sell you stuff.  Live in the past and never look to the future, that is all your ideology is and what makes you all such good sheep.

Don't worry though, I'm sure we will think of something.  Of interest to me is this...

http://www.compulsive-hoarding.org/DSM-V.html

To sum up, there is this thing called the DSM that lists mental disorders.  They just added hording.  Seems like a nice way to determine who keeps a gun for self defense and who likes to keep an arsenal.  Helps me to understand why the gun nuts are so resistant to opening the door to a mental health check.

I"m not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but if you don't accept that your way of thinking is helping to keep the country from moving forward then other ways will be found to deal with you.  The NRA can't have your back for ever because eventually that turd is going to lose it's shine.


I'm all for mental health checks. as long as it isn't done by people like you who would take one look at my 120 guns, 50,000 rounds of assorted ammunition, multiple sets of BDUs, and call me a "nut" and a "hoarder" who is (point at random page in DSM) - clearly mentally ill!

Of course, if I am Jay Leno and have a fleet of 300 cars including one built from an M1 tank engine, I'm a  collectoror  connoisseur ....

There's nothing I despise more than people who don't like what others like and then start labeling them as mentally ill (and therefore no longer a person and perfectly ok to take away their rights and possessions)
 
2013-04-25 01:51:15 AM  

swangoatman: luxup: The sane ones can have shotguns and pistols.

But can I keep my rifle too? or am I supposed to shoot the dear I eat with a pistol? How many bullets you gonna let me have to hunt with ?
Mom, can I please have another bullet as the one I shot missed.
Your lack of knowledge proves you really do not know the topic past your indoctrination..



Sure, hunt all you want.  You need an assault rifle for that?  I didn't know that those were designed for hunting deer.Also, I know enough to know that if you need 10 shots to kill a deer they you should just give up hunting.  Raise chickens instead.

Oh yea. the best for last.I fixed your PC speech for ya.
You are so in-tune to FORCE aren't you LUXUP>
We can force a mental patient  a child in school to take meds.
 We can take away children from WHO WE FEEL are unfit bad parents who refuse to accept our communist ideals..
 It's just a matter of time before we work out a way to take the guns away from those we can't control through propaganda and fear.the crazy people.


Yeah, you keep thinking that.  There is no dignity in your stance.  There is no honor in your convictions.  Any coward can call someone names and change words to justify their own fears.  You are not standing up for what is right, you are blocking progress because you are afraid.  Just look at your retorts or whatever you like to call it.  You throw around words like communist, propaganda and fear because you don't have facts and a sound argument.  All you can do is try to justify your emotions on the subject and that is always messy.  You don't look at history, you ignore it.

You are deluded in your thinking.  I don't need to cry communist because I don't agree with you, I just have to point out your own behavior.  You are disingenuous because you wrap your irrational fear in so called patriotism.  Well, it's time you were shouted down.

But nope, you, the vocal minority have no interest in reality.  You don't want to make sure we do whatever we can to protect kids from getting shot up.  Nope, you are more concerned that you have enough bullets to kill a deer.
 
2013-04-25 02:00:06 AM  

swangoatman: Liberals doing their gun thing to kids now:

An NYU psychology student  was arrested on illegal weapons possession raps Monday,

Bernard Goal, 20, was busted after a startled maintenance crew spotted a pair of realistic looking rifles on his bed while he was out and alerted campus security.

Public safety officers swept the Texas native's room and found four more Airsoft weapons that closely resembled AK-47s and a black Colt carbine rifles, sources said.

NYPD cops arrested Goal at 2:30 p.m. Monday and hit him with six misdemeanor violations of a local law that prohibits the possession or sale of air rifles and replica firearms, according to a law enforcement source.

The weapons fire pellets through compressed air and are routinely mistaken for actual firearms. They have a range of about 140 to 300 feet and can cause flesh wounds at a close range, sources said.

"It's very scary to know there were guns one floor below me. I had no idea," said one of Goal's co-workers, who described him as pleasant and a hard worker. "But knowing Bernard I'm not scared."

Are you still scared of the kids little liberal mommy? You still gonna let me keep the scary shotgun,pistols and BB GUNS??

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x364]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nyu_student_busted_fo r_bu ilding_1lZqVHYj47McYLAtcHKAWP


Funny, it's not the liberals who want to arm themselves because a college kid is making air rifles.  Who is the more scared, the one who says (like me) what is your point?  The cops got him.

Or the guy that says this is why they need to have a gun, so I can protect myself from the tyrannical rule that is imminent because a college kid made a pellet gun.  This one is up there with the guy who used looting on Boston as a reason.  The looting that turned out to be people stealing running jackets.

I sure as heck know which one sounds more paranoid, and I'm pretty sure who is more afraid.
 
2013-04-25 02:12:27 AM  

duenor: I'm all for mental health checks. as long as it isn't done by people like you who would take one look at my 120 guns, 50,000 rounds of assorted ammunition, multiple sets of BDUs, and call me a "nut" and a "hoarder" who is (point at random page in DSM) - clearly mentally ill!


No, just selfishly irrational.  If a woman has 120 pairs of shoes then she has a problem, she just doesn't love shoes.  Maybe there is a reason for you to have that much firepower but I'm guessing it's just personal preference.

I know that people who like to play cop or soldier are more dangerous than the actual thing.
 
2013-04-25 02:23:25 AM  

People_are_Idiots: doglover: madgonad: Buy an assault rifle without ID - yes. Fully automatic - no.

If it's not fully automatic, it's not an assault rifle.

It's like saying "You don't need a driver's license to drive this car." where the car is actually a ten speed Huffy.

Uhm, according to the facts, it is... (From Wikipedia's definition of "assault weapon")

Attributes previously defined in Federal assault weapon legislation and their purposes:
- Detachable magazines allow for fast reloading
- Collapsible stocks allow for adjustment to the length of pull to the shooter's preference.
- Folding stocks reducing the total length of the firearm, making it easier to transport. Critics maintain that it makes the weapon more concealable.
- Pistol grips (on rifles) reduce the angle (and thus rotational strain) of the wrist when the rifle is shouldered.
- Bayonet mounts allow the mounting of a bayonet
- Flash suppressors reduce night vision degradation to a shooter's vision, as well as those beside or behind the user
- Threaded barrels allow for the mounting of flash suppressors, compensators and muzzle brake
- Barrel mounted grenade launcher mounts are concentric rings around the muzzle that facilitate attachment of rifle grenades
- A barrel shroud is a tube around the barrel designed to limit transfer of heat from the barrel to the supporting hand, or to protect a shooter from being burned by accidental contact.
- Magazines greater than 10 rounds
- Semi-automatic, functionality meaning that they can eject spent shell casings and chamber the next round without additional human action, but (as opposed to automatic firearms) only one round is fired per pull of the trigger.

Any ONE of these characteristics, and you have an "assault weapon."


Look at the definition you posted and look at the words they were using.
 
2013-04-25 02:32:41 AM  
And yet it hasn't happened.
 
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